With regards to Ben's departure.

Ben. This entire time, he built up a "its not about the money" sorta deal. Like i'm just happy to have made it. Then he stiffs us for a huge contract. Fuck that shit.

Who cares, we lost a player who obviously didn't want to be here, and we are still a top 3-4 team in the league. I don't think Miami is going to be nearly as hungry next year for the title, Shaq already proved his point that he could win without Kobe and is now going to go back to his level of a couple of years ago. Cleveland is a little scary but I still don't think that they are quite there yet. The east is still open for the taking and with a little more bench development we will be right in the fray.

theres no "all involved in this clusterfuck" option. so i did not vote.

"most" forces you to choose, otherwise we'd all vote "all", except Balloons

Top 3-4 team in the East I could buy, not agree with - but understand your argument. No way are still a top 3-4 team in the league.
why not? its the playoffs where we'll be hurt, but overall we are probally between the 3rd and 7th position depending on what happens the rest of this offseason and our youth. the east isnt that great after miami and chicago. Cleveland is about even with us depending on who they add or lose.

"most" forces you to choose, otherwise we'd all vote "all", except Balloons
unfortunately there is no most for me. i'm spreading it pretty even.

Don't really care about it.

Ben couldn't even name the Pistons' last contract offer. He was leaving regardless.

I'm happy Ben got his mega-bucks, and I think we'll still be fine without him, with some tinkering. He went from being the most important starter last year to the least.

Davidson for a long time, but then I heard the terms of the deal and have switched to "no one". I'm mad at Davison for the state of our team, but not giving Ben the max is understandable.

wow, way to put words in ben's mouth. unless your calling him a lyer (sp?), he said he called joe after every offer he got to see if joe would match it.

take the opposite of the situation: what if joe offered 52, no other team was offering even close to that, and ben said he refused to sign for less than 60. if that were the case, and we were asking bill davidson go give ben 8 million dollars extra for no other reason than because ben wanted even more money, that would be unreasonable. just like its unreasonable to ask ben to take 8 million, or 12, or 14, or whatever it is, less to stay a piston.

its not like ben was looking for a 7 year deal. 4 fucking years. 3 other starters are locked up for the next 4 years anyway. if this were 2004, we'd very well be looking at 100 million for ben.

and if your 'fine' with this team going into next year knowing that we have no chance at winning, than why even root for the team? who just hopes for second place. how gay is that?

why does no1 listen to me:


BEN SOLD HIS HOUSE 3 FUCKING MONTHS AGO.
HE BAUGHT ON IN CHICAGO DURING THE PLAYOFFS.
THE REPORTS OF THE PISTONS OFFER WAS JUST SO WE CAN THINK THEY TRIED TO KEEP HIM. BEN MADE UP HIS MIND A LONG FUCKING TIME AGO.

^even if that is true, doesn't mean you can be upset at the Pistons/Joe/Dumbo for letting it get to that point in the first place

I know. I'm just telling peole who are saying the ben was "insulted" by the pistons offer, that it isnt true. That offer was just so they can say he made an offer.

well, if thats the case your calling the pistons, joe dumars, ben wallace, and the bulls liers. plus your accusing the bulls of tampering. plus you'd have the inside scoop that pretty much no one else has.

not saying its impossible. maybe ben sold his house knowing that he would be getting a new one with this contract, regardless. i think your jumping to conclusions with dubious information.

and if your 'fine' with this team going into next year knowing that we have no chance at winning, than why even root for the team? who just hopes for second place. how gay is that?

so, we should just root for the top ranked teams/players in every sport?

"insulted" is not a word ben has used. look at the freep, he was very humble about the whole thing. "insulted", "irked", "disrespected" are all words people put in ben's mouth. he said he was disapointed. big difference, in my mind.

There was also a caller on WDFN earlier this year that said Ben started building in Chicago way before the end of the season. Dont believe me, ask -Irony- he's the one that told me of the call. It just matched with what I heard though people in relestate who deal with those upperupperupper class neighborhoods. I dont know nothing about tampering. It was always obvious that Chicago was going to make a play. Ben probably knew that, and knew they were going to come strong. We all knew it, I doubt that Ben didnt know it.

And everyone in sports lie. Things are said to keep good PR.

and if your 'fine' with this team going into next year knowing that we have no chance at winning, than why even root for the team? who just hopes for second place. how gay is that?

so, we should just root for the top ranked teams/players in every sport?

no. but im confused by this. i've never seen any team willfully break up a title contender like this because its owner wouldnt pay the team's icon. never.

98 bulls were completely different. wings with sergei were completely different (sergei signed for less with ducks).

maybe the marlins championship teams. but thats more of a reflection of how fucked up baseball is.

i'll really have a hard time rooting for this team, knowing that it didnt put forth its best effort to have the best team possible. its like, how much can you really root for the tigers before this year, when winning obviously wasnt their main concern?

If not for Davidson we'd have more assets. It's be easier to improve the roster if not for that cheap fuck.

There was also a caller on WDFN earlier this year that said Ben started building in Chicago way before the end of the season. Dont believe me, ask -Irony- he's the one that told me of the call. It just matched with what I heard though people in relestate who deal with those upperupperupper class neighborhoods. I dont know nothing about tampering. It was always obvious that Chicago was going to make a play. Ben probably knew that, and knew they were going to come strong. We all knew it, I doubt that Ben didnt know it.

And everyone in sports lie. Things are said to keep good PR.

well, like i said in another thread, if the pistons were wronged by ben, and he really didnt give them a chance to match, they would let us know. they were up in arms when houston left, and they tore larry brown apart in the papers when they were dealing with him. if the pistons were wronged, we wouldnt need anonymous rumours to find out, thats for sure.

and if your 'fine' with this team going into next year knowing that we have no chance at winning, than why even root for the team? who just hopes for second place. how gay is that?

so, we should just root for the top ranked teams/players in every sport?

no. but im confused by this. i've never seen any team willfully break up a title contender like this because its owner wouldnt pay the team's icon. never.

98 bulls were completely different. wings with sergei were completely different (sergei signed for less with ducks).

maybe the marlins championship teams. but thats more of a reflection of how fucked up baseball is.

i'll really have a hard time rooting for this team, knowing that it didnt put forth its best effort to have the best team possible. its like, how much can you really root for the tigers before this year, when winning obviously wasnt their main concern?

That sounds so bandwagon it's ridiculous. Every time they fail to get a key acquisition, or retain an important player, we should stop watching because winning isn't the main concern?

That sounds so bandwagon it's ridiculous. Every time they fail to get a key acquisition, or retain an important player, we should stop watching because winning isn't the main concern?

You'd be surprised at some of the things that have been said...

And I agree, it is a bandwagon mentality.

right, letting ben walk away is the equivalent of not signing shaq to the minimum.

and fuck you. i watched more piston teal games in the 90's than i care to admit. its easy to come in here and say your fine with this team just being ok, but give it a year, or 2 years, or 5 years. what the pistons had for the last 6 is very rare, and we let it walk away. fuck that. going back to the pistons of the 90's is going to suck. if you dont realize it, you probably dont remember it or never saw it.

I was around well before the teal years.

I've also been around long enough to watch %90 of the NBA fans suffer a LOT more than Pistons fans. Aside from Bulls, Celtics and Lakers fans, Pistons fans have had it better than anybody. I think a lot of us lose perspective and forget that.

I simply don't we went from being contender to being "mediocre" simply by letting ben take chicago's megabucks. It's overreacting, plain and simple. Ben isn't as crucial to our success as he was years ago.

In 2 years, I don't think anybody will be very upset, because I think Joe can squeeze another title out of the current core, with some wheeling and dealing. I also think in 2 years Ben will be a shell of what he was from 2002-2004.

losing a 4 time dpoy and 6 (?) time all star center for nothing is a big deal. we replaced our allstar center with a guy who probably couldnt have even played on any of our squads for the last 4 years. a guy that san an let walk away cuz he wasnt worth keeping. this team is a fraud now.

If he was still the calibur of what he used to be, which I don't think he is, in a league that he can play defense like he used to in, which he can't.

Age, salary and the new defensive rules are all going to combine to bring him down in 2 years, minimum. I really loved the heart aned effort Ben gave us in 6 years, but his best years are far behind him.

I don't compare Nazr to Ben, because we're not paying him what we offered Ben. He's already proven he can exist in a winning enviornment. Just because we don't have an all-star center anymore doesn't mean we're finished.

Nazr's not Ben, but he's also not a scrub.

losing a 4 time dpoy and 6 (?) time all star center for nothing is a big deal. we replaced our allstar center with a guy who probably couldnt have even played on any of our squads for the last 4 years. a guy that san an let walk away cuz he wasnt worth keeping. this team is a fraud now.

Ok, so go follow behind his ass and become a Bulls fan. This team is still a legitimate ECF contender, reguardless of what outsiders are saying. If you think the teal years are back, you're about as retarded as hooper.

You sit here and call this team a fraud, when we have so much potential rotting on the bench it's ridiculous. I'm not saying either three of those guys are going to replace Ben, but who exactly were we supposed to get?

If I'm joe, I'm starting Sheed and Dice, or Sheed and Mad Max. Nazr would come off the bench, until he proved he was better then the aforementioned three. We're a midseason trade away from being back into title contention. Put the life raft away.

Yeah, this team is nowhere in the same galaxy as the teal years. Anybody that remembers the teal years knows how bad they were. We missed the playoffs ENTIRELY for 3 straight seasons, and never got out for the first round.

Even as we are now, we're a very good shot to get out of the first round. It's not the mortal lock it was before, but we're still a top-4 team in the conference.

We're close to being legit title contenders again, if Joe can make one more quality move.

so where we get the allstar from that puts us over the top again?

sweet. start max. legit away.

so where we get the allstar from that puts us over the top again?

Tayshaun Prince could easily be an all-star in 07.

Furthermore, we dont NEED an all-star per se, but a pretty good player that can give us the inside scoring punch off the bench that I think we need if we want to seriously think about winning another championship.

Maybe Max or Delfino can be that player, maybe we can draft him with the Orlando pick, maybe we get him at the deadline in a salary dump, maybe we dont find one and get him with the MLE next summer. A lot of things could happen.

Another shot-blocker would be nice, but I don't think it's as big of a need.

so where we get the allstar from that puts us over the top again?
doesnt have to be an all star, but needs to fufill a need defensively. maybe Maxiell can do it, dont see nazr doing it, but who knows.

if amir can improve his one on one defense he could be a help. he is a great off the ball shot blocker though. Either way all star is just a term. though i think as are, we dont have much of a chance of competing with the heat or bulls(and maybe not even cleveland). We are still a good team. its a little extremist to bring up the teal years. this is more like 2004 pre-rasheed wallace level. Maybe a chance to win a title. but not likely this coming year.

but thats with us as is. still more changes are possible.

I'm not convinced at all that the Bulls are better than us. They have even more problems scoring inside than we have right now.

They'll be a very good defensive team yes, but with 1 or 2 guys taking all the shots, I'm not sure they can beat a balanced offensive attack.

I'm also not sure Cleveland will be so much better next year with the same roster minus flip murray (most likely). If Shannon Brown pans out as the #2 scorer, they could be.

I'm not going to relinquish the division until someone proves they've surpassed the Pistons, and I'm not sure they have.

I'm not convinced at all that the Bulls are better than us. They have even more problems scoring inside than we have right now.
So what, they had just as many last year but no consistent interior defense to force other teams to be perimeter. they have that now. and they get a pretty decent slasher in jr smith. with pj brown also in the mix, their interior looks pretty solid IMO. their achilles heel was interior defense last year and they still went stride for stride with the heat.

I'm not convinced at all that the Bulls are better than us. They have even more problems scoring inside than we have right now.
So what, they had just as many last year but no consistent interior defense to force other teams to be perimeter. they have that now. and they get a pretty decent slasher in jr smith. with pj brown also in the mix, their interior looks pretty solid IMO. their achilles heel was interior defense last year and they still went stride for stride with the heat.

AGain, if they prove they're the better team in 2007 then so be it, but I don't think they're a better team as of right now.

see i agree that b-diddy is being extreme. but kstat may be also in the opposite direction IMO. losing ben IS a big deal kstat. but no we arent crap because he's gone b-diddy. try losing the over positive and the over negative talk. we are still a good team, but we have alot of issues to deal with in order to compete for a title. everything is not fine and dandy at the moment.

Chicago for giving him that absurd contract.

see i agree that b-diddy is being extreme. but kstat may be also in the opposite direction IMO. losing ben IS a big deal kstat. but no we arent crap because he's gone b-diddy. try losing the over positive and the over negative talk. we are still a good team, but we have alot of issues to deal with in order to compete for a title. everything is not fine and dandy at the moment.

hey, im not saying we're going to be a 40 win team. im sure we'll be fine in the regular season. but unless maxiell REALLY surprises me--im talking about being a very high quality player--this team is going to get exposed next year in the playoffs. big time.

i thought sheed was alerady going to be a problem, now without ben who knows? rebounding was already a problem? now much worse. toughness became a problem. depth, defense. i see this team being a big time fraud next year. and despite losing old broken down ben wallace and replacing him with a young up and comer like nazr, we're still on the decline, and we still have very few ways to improve.

i see very little reason to get excited about next year.

sweet. start max. legit away.

I'm not convinced nazr is THAT much better then maxiell. Call me crazy.

sweet. start max. legit away.

I'm not convinced nazr is THAT much better then maxiell. Call me crazy.
mad max plays with no fear out there and will draw fouls by the boat load. I figure him to make his free throws at a 60 percent clip or maybe even 70 percent once he gets comfortable(nothing higher than 70 percent though). the only question is if he's smart enough to keep out of foul trouble like ben was.

Ben. He could have been loyal to his team and came for less money to help us win again BUT he went for more money and a team that is worse than us.

Not many loyal players in the league anymore.

Can't be mad at Ben - he took more money to do the same job he did here.

I'm not mad at Joe, since it's obvious he's been bent over in the last 2 years.

And while I'm disappointed in Davidson, I can't blame him either.

Basketball is a business. If you can save some moeny and still be reasonably successful you can do it. Look at the fucking Clippers. They've made a truckload of money through the years, despite being pathetic fucking losers.

It's just a fucked situation all-round.

sweet. start max. legit away.

I'm not convinced nazr is THAT much better then maxiell. Call me crazy.
mad max plays with no fear out there and will draw fouls by the boat load. I figure him to make his free throws at a 60 percent clip or maybe even 70 percent once he gets comfortable(nothing higher than 70 percent though). the only question is if he's smart enough to keep out of foul trouble like ben was.

True, but I feel like there's not much at stake when considering playing Mad Max over Nazr. I wish just once we'd put some faith in the players on the bench. The organization says such good things about them, but none of it is converted to meaningful minutes. With us being virtually out of championship contention for now, It's the perfect time to give players like Max and Amir some burn.

It's either that, or have them build up so much discontent for our team, they end up going elsewhere and becoming decent to good players.

The problem with this is that it's bad for both teams. The Pistons window is closing, so the Bulls took away their championship. And while Ben will help the Bulls be better this year, I can't wait to hear Chicago boo him in two years when he's not the Ben Wallace that they're paying for. It was a lose/lose for both teams.

Never thought I would see the day that MOLA1 would say that Ben Wallace leaving would not make him upset at all.

And b-diddy, I need my props. This is perhaps the greatest poll in the history of the internets.

can i vote for Darko Milicic, for not being the successor to Ben Wallace?

i can imagine Darko is having himself a chuckle as he trims his porn stache in Orlando....

Can't be mad at Ben - he took more money to do the same job he did here.

I'm not mad at Joe, since it's obvious he's been bent over in the last 2 years.

And while I'm disappointed in Davidson, I can't blame him either.

Basketball is a business. If you can save some moeny and still be reasonably successful you can do it. Look at the fucking Clippers. They've made a truckload of money through the years, despite being pathetic fucking losers.

It's just a fucked situation all-round.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

Hello Booker T.

Hail King Booker, Hail King Booker, Hail King Booker!

What's with continuing to call Davidson a cheapass? Can we get off that bandwagon?

The man did shitcan Carlisle and LB and pay them both NOT to coach. There was some serious money invested in LB, too. That's not cheap.