Looking at the absence of Ben wallace. I think Joe Dumars may have capped off his worst year as an Executive for Detroit. The draft was decent. But every trade and FA he brought in didn't do much to get us that extra push. First it was Ben wallace, Billups and Rip, Then sheed/mike James/Elden, then Mcdyess.

This year? Mo evans, Dale crackhead Davis, Loss of Darko(which only has value now because of Ben's departure), and Tony delk who didnt show much in the playoffs even though he is considered a solid player. Now we lose Ben Wallace and I now wonder if the Karma of dumars' 4 leaf clover he received when he did the S&T with Hill, has come back around as an unlucky path to 99 problems. Is his Luck running dry? I mean he was pretty damn lucky to get Sheed, Hunter, James, and Rip(jordan's belief in stackhouse got us by there) the way he did. So i wonder whats next. Has Dumars Luck ran out?[smilie=sayitaintso: [smilie=dissed.gif] [smilie=sad3.gif]

You can't name one GM in the NBA that hasn't had one off-year at least.

Joe's still one of the very best, and he has 1 month to recover from this.

If he can come back from losing Greant Hill, he can come back from losing Ben Wallace.

Joe's under a cash limit from a man who's 2 years from the old dirt nap. Its obvious this franchise is penny pinching.

Well, this is technically two really bad offseasons in a row.

Losing Corliss, Memo, Elden, Mike James, and bringing in Dale Davis, Mo Evans, etc. last year.

Now losing Ben.

Joe's luster is definitely wearing off a bit.

Lets also remember he lucked out when Chris Webber chose to to to Sacto as well...

Again, you could say that about most GMs.

Of course, if CWebb signs with us, there's also no guarentee that he tears up his knee like he did in sactown.

Well, this is technically two really bad offseasons in a row.

Losing Corliss, Memo, Elden, Mike James, and bringing in Dale Davis, Mo Evans, etc. last year.

Now losing Ben.

Joe's luster is definitely wearing off a bit.

Losing Memo he had NO choice in. That shit doesn't count.

Same with Mike James, unless you expected Joe to trade chauncey so he could give James the $$$/PT he wanted.

Elden retired. Come on.

Nevemind that he struck gold in Antonio McDyess either....

I won't argue he had a bad year. But he did not have a bad year two seasons ago.

Dumars and Davidson to me are overrated. Davidson is a cheap as_ "penny pinching" old ____!

I know it is an old bit but Dumars' drafting ability will finally catch up to him.

This year's trade deadline really changed how I view Joe.

I wish I really knew how much Davidson had to do with that.

Please place your anger towards Davidson and Dumars.

Dumars < Isiah

I know it is an old bit but Dumars' drafting ability will finally catch up to him.
Actually based on where he was drafting, he did very well drafting last season. based on position vs quality, probally his best ever.

Please place your anger towards Davidson and Dumars.

Dumars < Isiah
now thats just silly. you're hanging yourself with that statement.

Dumars < Isiah


THanks for helping me get over this. Laughter really is the bets medicine.

Also to everyone. I'm not questioning his skill as a GM. But he had a great string of luck for several years in a row. And last year was not a bad year. maybe average. but not bad. i just wonder if his gambles may need to be reduced if his luck keeps rolling snake eyes like this year.

Isiah has a proven draft record. Please name someone besides Tay that Joe has traded that had panned out for the Pistons.

Isiah has a proven draft record. Please name someone besides Tay that Joe has traded that had panned out for the Pistons.

LOL

I can't believe you consider this a serious discussion.

Isiah has a proven draft record. Please name someone besides Tay that Joe has traded that had panned out for the Pistons.
name a trade that wasnt beyond retarded by zeke. please give it up. Zeke is my favorite baskeball player on earth and a good coach IMO. but you can't seel Zeke the GM to anyone with a brain. sorry man

Isiah has a proven draft record. Please name someone besides Tay that Joe has traded that had panned out for the Pistons.

Isiah brought in the entire Knicks roster last season. Joe brought in the entire Pistons roster last season.

Knicks: 23-59
Pistons: 64-18

NEXT!!!!!

Even if Joe had a perfect draft record we'd still be fucked. Can you imagine Joe needing to re-sign Jefferson, Bosh/Wade/Melo and Josh Howard in addition to keeping Sheed, Ben, Tay and Rip under Davidson's contraints.

Fact is Joe's luck ran out as soon as the luxury tax became an issue. Up until then his trade and free agency track record was damn near flawless. Ever since we won the title he's had no choice but to whatever he can to keep the starting 5 together without going into the luxury tax. This is all on Davidson.

This is a serious question though? If Dumars knew that the NBA was leaning more towards scoring and up tempo, why did we draft Maxiell (A BEn type of player)?

This is all on Davidson.

I agree 100%!!!!!

This is a serious question though? If Dumars knew that the NBA was leaning more towards scoring and up tempo, why did we draft Maxiell (A BEn type of player)?
because he's not trying to build an Nba soft protocol team. he's trying to build a hybrid of gritty players and more efficient offense. but before you question joe d. tell what zeke has done to get the knicks anywhere but in cap hell.

It was still a tough blow for the Pistons. Not only are they losing Wallace, the four-time Defensive Player of the Year, but Dumars also wasn’t able to work a sign-and-trade deal to get some sort of compensation for the loss.

“We tried to work out a couple of deals,” Wallace said. “But there was nothing that Joe felt would work. He didn’t just want to take back players that he didn’t want or players that he felt he was just going to have to turn around and move. They just couldn’t get the guys they wanted.”

Some of you believe that Dumars can walk on water. Looks like he needs to learn to swim.

It was still a tough blow for the Pistons. Not only are they losing Wallace, the four-time Defensive Player of the Year, but Dumars also wasn’t able to work a sign-and-trade deal to get some sort of compensation for the loss.

“We tried to work out a couple of deals,” Wallace said. “But there was nothing that Joe felt would work. He didn’t just want to take back players that he didn’t want or players that he felt he was just going to have to turn around and move. They just couldn’t get the guys they wanted.”

Some of you believe that Dumars can walk on water. Looks like he needs to learn to swim.

Joe is an ass then, take something in return and be a GM and work your magic. Doesn't Joe have the same confidence he once had in his ability, or is it a matter of Mr. D didn't want to pay taxes so he did what the boss said and took nothing back. Joe Dumars is a puppet now nothing more than Billy D's and Tommy W's whipping boy. Hell he could have takes back Malik Allen and a 5 million or more dollar trade exception, so Joe can go fuck him self if he thinks he can pull the wool over our eyes about the truth, that we wasn't allowed to take back salary. I know Joe will play the good son role and deny that it was anything but his choice in the end who decided they wouldn't go higher or work out a S&T.

As much as I mad at Ben, Fucking Tom Wilson's ass better stay off the fucking radio with his goonish planting of why Ben was problem and needed to go stories. I hate what happened but it is obvious that Ben's attitude is the least of the problems deep within the organization

Yeah, take shit back for shit's sake. Good plan, chief.

Kstat, I do have to say that there are quite a few things that we could have done with such a large salary exemption. Of course, if Malik Allen had a multiyear deal I would have been pissed. In the end though, there is absolutely no way that Chicago would help us out that much. Hell, half the reason they signed him was to screw us.

If they offered any value whatsoever, I'm sure Joe would have taken it.

Why not take something back? He took back "shit" when hill left. Why not take back shit now. At worst you turn around and trade it if/when it dosnt work out at the deadline.

Its not like losing Ben opens up many doors and frees up money to spend freely. So you take something back.

Yeah, take shit back for shit's sake. Good plan, chief.

No my point was take back a shit player to get a huge exception. I said Malik Allen because it was the shittest player they had and came to my mind. You can't tell me that our pick which will likely now be the pick on either side other Orl pick with a 5-8 million dollar exception couldn't have made this team better than the just MLE, the BAE and a prayer will

To take nothing, means you can't try to work magic. It's like hoping you will win the lottery but you never play.

Yeah, take shit back for shit's sake. Good plan, chief.

No my point was take back a shit player to get a huge exception. I said Malik Allen because it was the shittest player they had and came to my mind. You can't tell me that our pick which will likely now be the pick on either side other Orl pick with a 5-8 million dollar exception couldn't have made this team better than the just MLE, the BAE and a prayer will

To take nothing, means you can't try to work magic. It like hoping you will win the lottery but you never play.

I want to know what was offered before I go up a wall over joe not taking CHicago's table scraps.

I am not sure you are paying attention here...IF WE TOOK BACK ANYTHING THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BEN'S DEAL AND THE PLAYER WE GOT BACK WOULD BE OUR TRADE EXCEPTION BECAUSE CHICAGO WAS UNDER THE CAP.

There is no added loss on Chicago part of any financial issues beyond taking on Ben's deal.

So Ben's contract for 0607, 15 million minus said Shitty player at 3 million equals TE of 12 Million which counts against our cap, but can be used and divided to get waived players or to trade for players. Thus Something is better than nothing regardless of how shitty said player is on the court since would have got a huge ass TE.

Thank you JS. I love you.

if a 12 million TE counts against our cap, then it would also count against the luxury tax.

if a 12 million TE counts against our cap, then it would also count against the luxury tax.


Bingo that is my point this had nothing to do with not getting anything in return he wanted it had to do with paying the lux tax. We could have gotten back a valuable chip either now or in season but didn't. Hell Joe could have taken a 12 million dollar eception traded it for PJ brown and waived the 4 million dollar balance to avoid the tax. Did you know that unless you renouce the MLE if you don't use it it counts against the cap, eveything counts against the cap.

Now I am sure you are going to argue that why pay the tax for no player. I will then refer you to Microwave's breakdown of the lux tax. Which basically says being over the lax thres by less 5 million doesn't cost Billy D but 2 million after he gets his tax return from the lux share.

JS is killin mother fuckers tonight.

So Kstat would rather not have a TE than pay the luxury tax. What a fan.

Kstat is fucking clueless when it comes to all things related to the salary cap.

If you wanna learn about the CBA check out the Links thread and read the FAQ from Larry Coon.

NOTE: Joe's 4-leaf clover didn't die: Davidson sold it for $1 on ebay.

Kstat is fucking clueless when it comes to all things related to the salary cap.


That sentence is about 10 words too long.

Joe never had a four leaf clover.

Joe is, and was, still a damn good GM.

But he's still got to play within the rules. We all got so damn spoiled because he used the rules to his advantage early on. But as time passes, the rules work against you.

Cases in point are that he acquired a mass of young, cheap talent early or young veterans at low cost early. Do you guys remember how ridiculously talented our championship team was? Billups, Hamilton, Prince, Wallace, Wallace, Okur, Milicic, Williamson, James, Hunter, Campbell... we were DAMN good and deep. But all that was either veterans like Campbell at the end of the line, up and coming players on new contracts (Billups, B. Wallace), guys hitting the end of the line with old contracts (Hamilton, R. Wallace, Okur, James, Hunter) or draftees (Prince and Milicic).

They were bought low and ready to be sold high.

We would never have been able to pay for all those parts at their max worth on the open market. And that's what's happening. Joe just has to be patient and still make the right moves to buy low and sell/lose high.

Success spoils. But Joe is still playing the game the right way. Don't use Davidson as a scapegoat. Man makes more money when the team wins than the luxury tax would cost him anyway. That's a copout, IMO.

This is just the way the rules work.

I am losing faith that the Pistons organization will make any deals worth a dam. Seems to me that Joe has in hands tied and if does not than Joe is overrated.

Last year we needed help on the frontline and we got Dale Davis. We need a PG after trading Darko and Carlos and we end help with a small SG, that does not play.

S&T anything with Chicago for all of the reasons mention before. I wish I could cancel me season tickets. FUCK Davidson and their cheap ass ways

Basically we trade Ben Wallace, Darko, Carlos for Kato and Pryzbiila(if we sign him). This makes me so angry. We should have traded Darko for Harrington which was rumored last year.

Seems to me that the Pistons have no clue or plan for the next 1 or 2 years, except we have Lindsey for 2 more years.

Basically we trade Ben Wallace, Darko, Carlos for Kato and Pryzbiila(if we sign him). This makes me so angry. We should have traded Darko for Harrington which was rumored last year.
nope, try we shoulda kept darko and traded Ben if we knew ben would bolt. but we didnt. is what it is. but the trade for harrington doesn't help. the real point is that Joe D let Darko go for keeping Ben. Then proceeds to receive a swift kick in the nuts From wallace. I dont mind wallace leaving like he did. but he shoulda eluded to the possibility of him bolting for the money rather than play along as if everything was cool.

Kstat is fucking clueless when it comes to all things related to the salary cap.

If you wanna learn about the CBA check out the Links thread and read the FAQ from Larry Coon.

NOTE: Joe's 4-leaf clover didn't die: Davidson sold it for $1 on ebay.

Thanks Pharoah, that's my line for the day...haha