He's signing with the Bulls. 4 years, $52 million, per ESPN.com.

We're no longer championship contenders.

Bill Davidson isn't paying the luxury tax!!!!!!!!!! WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOO That's bigger than winning the title.

Ben Wallace has deal with Bulls
A league source tells ESPN.com that Ben Wallace has informed the Detroit Pistons that he is leaving the team and has accepted an offer from the Chicago Bulls thought to be worth $52 million over four years.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/index?&lpos=globalnav&lid=gn_NBA_NBA

Well, I hope we can work out a sign-and-trade.

$15+ million was one thing, but if $4 million was the difference, then Ben just wanted to leave.

The luxury tax had nothing to do with this, if that's all he left for.

Well, assuming the HornetsReport guy was right, this also means the Tyson-to-NOK deal will go through, meaning we're getting PJ Brown.

I hope to god we get something else. Deng? Please?

Well, I hope we can work out a gin-and-trade.

$15+ million was one thing, but if $4 million was the difference, then Ben just wanted to leave.

The luxury tax had nothing to do with this, if that's all he left for.

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If the luxury tax wasn't a factor then why didn't we match or exceed that offer you fucking tard!

WHOO HOO!

You could look at it both ways, I'm betting Ben took the Chicago offer to Detroit and asked them to match it, and they refused. Davidson was probably pissed by Ben's comments in the newspaper.
davidsons pissed about everything. he's old.:cool:

Well, I hope we can work out a gin-and-trade.

$15+ million was one thing, but if $4 million was the difference, then Ben just wanted to leave.

The luxury tax had nothing to do with this, if that's all he left for.

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If the luxury tax wasn't a factor then why didn't we match or exceed that offer you fucking tard!

Who's to say Joe didnt offer to match and Ben left anyway?

It was a measly $4 million. It wouldnt even have put us over the luxury tax. Your argument is invalid.

If Ben wanted to stay here, he'd still be here.

Well, assuming the HornetsReport guy was right, this also means the Tyson-to-NOK deal will go through, meaning we're getting PJ Brown.

I hope to god we get something else. Deng? Please?

You're insane if you think we're getting Deng, Nocioni, Gordon, Hinrich, or Duhon. Even Chandler's a pipe dream at this point. They don't have to give us anything.

We might do a sign-and-trade so Ben can get more money, but more than likely it will be just for a draft pick. Maybe Dumars can get a first rounder, although it certainly won't be the Knicks pick next season.

well, fuck. i dont even know what to say. i dont want to see lets blow the fucker up... but lets blow this fucker up. sheed needs to go. rip, billups, hell even prince is possible.

next year's draft is great. we have to tank.

next year's FA class is great. we have to clear salary.

thats where we're at now.

Well, I hope we can work out a gin-and-trade.

$15+ million was one thing, but if $4 million was the difference, then Ben just wanted to leave.

The luxury tax had nothing to do with this, if that's all he left for.

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If the luxury tax wasn't a factor then why didn't we match or exceed that offer you fucking tard!

Who's to say Joe didnt offer to match and Ben left anyway?

It was a measly $4 million. It wouldnt even have put us over the luxury tax. Your argument is invalid.

If Ben wanted to stay here, he'd still be here.

Suddenly it's a measly $4 million. In several other threads you're bitching about Ben asking for that much. Just STFU already.

Fuck it. We still have 3 all-stars on this team.

We may not be title contenders anymore, but we can still be pretty good.

It was a measly $4 million. It wouldnt even have put us over the luxury tax. Your argument is invalid.
Once again, you display a complete lack of knowledge on the cap position of the Pistons.

Fuck it. We still have 3 all-stars on this team.

We may not be title contenders anymore, but we can still be pretty good.
That is a losers mentality.

well, fuck. i dont even know what to say. i dont want to see lets blow the fucker up... but lets blow this fucker up. sheed needs to go. rip, billups, hell even prince is possible.

next year's draft is great. we have to tank.

next year's FA class is great. we have to clear salary.

thats where we're at now.

We need to trade someone for multiple players. Not sure who the best option is. Sheed, probably. Maybe Rip. Who knows?

im looking forward to reading all summer about what a bad person ben is. lets see some true colors by the detroit media.

and i'd do the same thing if i were ben. 4 mill to move to chicago? hell yea!

play for an ownership that is dedicated to winning instead billy pennypincher? hell yea!

the real question is, do you boo ben next year when he's sweeping our asses in the 1st round? i'd say i'd boo bill, but no chance in hell he's ever getting one of my dollars again.

Fuck it. We still have 3 all-stars on this team.

We may not be title contenders anymore, but we can still be pretty good.
That is a losers mentality.

He is who he is.

im looking forward to reading all summer about what a bad person ben is. lets see some true colors by the detroit media.

and i'd do the same thing if i were ben. 4 mill to move to chicago? hell yea!

play for an ownership that is dedicated to winning instead billy pennypincher? hell yea!

the real question is, do you boo ben next year when he's sweeping our asses in the 1st round? i'd say i'd boo bill, but no chance in hell he's ever getting one of my dollars again.

Put on a bulls hat and get it over with.

Try to contain your joy, if you can.

im looking forward to reading all summer about what a bad person ben is. lets see some true colors by the detroit media.

and i'd do the same thing if i were ben. 4 mill to move to chicago? hell yea!

play for an ownership that is dedicated to winning instead billy pennypincher? hell yea!

the real question is, do you boo ben next year when he's sweeping our asses in the 1st round? i'd say i'd boo bill, but no chance in hell he's ever getting one of my dollars again.

Put on a bulls hat and get it over with.

Try to contain your joy, if you can.

And now is the time in the program where Kstat defines who a true Piston fan is.

Preach on, brother, preach on.

Fuck it. We still have 3 all-stars on this team.

We may not be title contenders anymore, but we can still be pretty good.
That is a losers mentality.

..and tanking the season to rebuild through the draft, thats a WINNERS mentality?

im looking forward to reading all summer about what a bad person ben is. lets see some true colors by the detroit media.

and i'd do the same thing if i were ben. 4 mill to move to chicago? hell yea!

play for an ownership that is dedicated to winning instead billy pennypincher? hell yea!

the real question is, do you boo ben next year when he's sweeping our asses in the 1st round? i'd say i'd boo bill, but no chance in hell he's ever getting one of my dollars again.

Put on a bulls hat and get it over with.

Try to contain your joy, if you can.


You're the one jerking off to how far this puts Davidson into the green.

im looking forward to reading all summer about what a bad person ben is. lets see some true colors by the detroit media.

and i'd do the same thing if i were ben. 4 mill to move to chicago? hell yea!

play for an ownership that is dedicated to winning instead billy pennypincher? hell yea!

the real question is, do you boo ben next year when he's sweeping our asses in the 1st round? i'd say i'd boo bill, but no chance in hell he's ever getting one of my dollars again.

Put on a bulls hat and get it over with.

Try to contain your joy, if you can.


You're the one jerking off to how far this puts Davidson into the green.


Diddy, we realize you like to fantisize about men jerking off to men, but this is neither the time nor the place.

You're the one in love with Dumbo, Gaystat.

You're the one in love with Dumbo, Gaystat.


Ooh, that was original....

Big Ben is walkin to Chi-Town[smilie=running.gif]

This is a sad day in Piston history. all that fucking talk by Piston management about gettin a deal done was obviuosly bullshit. What it comes down to, is that Ben needed to feel wanted, and thew Bulls came a knocking while the Pistons had a finger up their ass. I dont give a fuck about salary caps and free agency next year, we just lost one of the greatest Pistons of all time. WTF

You're the one in love with Dumbo, Gaystat.


Ooh, that was original....

So was the I'm rubber you'r glue comeback. I'm just playing down to your level.

tanking is the dumbest idea on earth. So's defending davidson like he's helpless and suffered enough abuse as it is. :rolleyes:

Its just a move on process. But we fucked up again. we didnt survive the bad boy fuck up. we got better after the grant hill fuck up. Now its time to see where this fuck up leads us.

So is Dumars calling Nazr Mohammad and offering the full MLE as we speak??
I hope not. Nazr =overrated. I'd rather develop a youngster at this point.

Well, hopefully Dumars can pull off some sort of sign and trade. The best the Pistons can realistically hope for is Mike Sweetney. You may laugh, but Sweetney's contract ends in a year and it'd give us another big man for the short term. It also allows Ben Wallace to sign for more money.

We still have the mid level exception, the BAE and a 2.4 million trade exception from the Dupree and Evans trades. Using those still wouldn't put the Pistons above the luxury tax.

Dumars has got a big challenge ahead. This is a very disappointing day.

Yep, better to not overpay for a center right now. Use the MLE on the best player available.

The question is, what does this do to the other players on the squad psyche?

Wow we could use Darko right about now.

Yep, this make the Darko trade look really REALLY bad....

As long as we kept Ben, losing Darko wouldnt hurt us too much, but now....ouch.

Fuck that fucker. Fuck. Eat shit. Fuck you.

Fuck, damnit, fuckin' cunt. Take it in the ass. Dumbfuck. Fuck you.

Fuck.

Man fuck a sign and trade unless it involves gordon or nocioni with deng as a side piece. No chandlers, no sweetneys, none of those garbage big guys they have. I'd just as soon rather give a young guy at MLE a shot. not old farts, no overrated nazrs.

Fuck that fucker. Fuck. Eat shit. Fuck you.

Fuck, damnit, fuckin' cunt. Take it in the ass. Dumbfuck. Fuck you.

Fuck.
exactly. and i'm speaking to dumars, ben, and bill. They are all complete knuckleheads to not come to an agreement.

[smilie=furious3.gi: [smilie=furious3.gi: [smilie=furious3.gi:


BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

4 years 52 Million and Davidson would not pry his cold fingers from his wallet to pay? Is it that or did Ben want to leave?

No question about this

You BOO the fuck out of this cocksucker when he plays his first game vs Detroit.

Way to go Ben you bitchass, way to make Sergi Federov look good.

Kilo got his wish. dont know if B-diddy wished for it. But i get the feeling part of him wanted this.
What did they wish for? the Darko trade to look ass backwards. Only one thing could do that. Us losing the heart and soul of the team. Now the heart and soul is Billups. As a player he's great, but he's more or less a tree hugging Flip loving hippie off the court.

This has to be due to Flip. It just doesn't make any sense any other way. Ben loves this city, he loves this team. Something had to really piss him off - and I'm 99% sure it's the Flipper. If we can get Chandler out of this, then we're not in that bad of shape. Chandler is better than nothing, and you never know - he could turn out to be the player he was supposed to be with this supporting cast.

What about re-signing Kelvin Cato?? .
the best part about you getting your wish is more ridiculous trade ideas that arent going to happen. the offseason is action packed in detroit. that has never been a good thing.

This has to be due to Flip. It just doesn't make any sense any other way. Ben loves this city, he loves this team. Something had to really piss him off - and I'm 99% sure it's the Flipper. If we can get Chandler out of this, then we're not in that bad of shape. Chandler is better than nothing, and you never know - he could turn out to be the player he was supposed to be with this supporting cast.
Or be worse. Chandler isnt worth a red cent he's getting. If we are be cost cautious, then fuck him, get someone worth their check.

We aint getting shit out if this. Why would the Bulls have to? They can trade Chandler to someone else. We got an MLE and that is it.

Uh only 2 words can desrcibe my emotions right now. fuck..

So now we dont get shit from any of this bullshit.

So since we know we arent going to win the title, do we tank it or do we just wait til next offseason?

WTF is with this tanking bullshit?

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHH
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHH
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHH
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHH
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHH
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHH
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHH
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

That did make me feel a little better

*opens newspaper*

Yzerman Retires!



AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHH
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaha aawaaaaaaa
meeeeeeeeeeooooooooapphhhhhhhhhyabnaablarg

WTF is with this tanking bullshit?
People are crushed right now. Expect extreme statements. Its like getting a divorce for some. You can't relate because you hate Ben wallace from the jump. But thankfully a majority of the pistons fans dont agree with you even halfway. If you're still dumbfounded, try to picture your boy billups leaving and your boy Flip getting fired.

Ford reported that Pistons told Ben that he offer he got from them was the only one coming.

There has to be big trouble in that lockeroom for him to want out this bad.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHH
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHH
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHH
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHH
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHH
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHH
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHH
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

That did make me feel a little better

*opens newspaper*

Yzerman Retires!



AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHH
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaha aawaaaaaaa
meeeeeeeeeeooooooooapphhhhhhhhhyabnaablarg
I must admit that actuaslly gave me a laugh bubbles. I am still a little ticked. But that was funny.

i can't believe this is true....i can't believe Ben would leave for 4 million...i can't believe the Pistons wouldn't even consider to pay more than 48/4...i hate Ben, i hate the Pistons and i hate the old fuck Davidson...

WTF is with this tanking bullshit?

Wake the fuck up. Its fucking obvious we arent going to get anywhere with this lineup. Our MLE guy wont bring a center anywhere near Ben's talent. A trade would fuck our starting 5 even more and a trade would probably give us more cap space, unless we get an expiring. I'm not saying we should tank but it is an option because I dont want to see us get elminated from the pllayoffs from some shitty team like the Cavs.

OR

the Pistons could be patient, play some good basketball and try to lure a big time FA and hope Orlando fucks up really bad. Then we sign Billups to a massive deal

Chad Ford is reporting that there is no S&T involved. I guess things could change between now and the official signing, but I can't see Chicago doing us any favors.
of course einstein. another genius trade idea that made no sense. [smilie=burgerking.:
now someone start a trade idea thread to complete the hilarious ideas.

..i hate Ben, i hate the Pistons and i hate the old fuck Davidson...
i'm with you. it goes equal fold that none of those 3 could come together and fix this.

Fuck tanking it. But how up tempo can we go? This team aint built for that shit at all. We still got a good core of players, and with the exception of Miami and now the fucking Bulls, how much better are the other Eastern teams? But, for all those that were wishing for this shit, well congrats to you. Seems some of us got greedy and little complacent with the 50 plus win seasons and yearly trips to the finals. Some thought that it was this automatic shit or something. Kind of reminds of a team I know a little about.

Chad Ford is reporting that there is no S&T involved. I guess things could change between now and the official signing, but I can't see Chicago doing us any favors.
[smilie=banghead.gi: [smilie=banghead.gi: [smilie=banghead.gi: [smilie=banghead.gi:

If that's true, we are FUCKED!!!

We'd only have the MLE and the BAE to work with.

Or we could trade Sheed to New York...

all tank talk can slide for the sake of this being some crushing news. but if i hear one tank idea when training camp comes. whoever is going to be[smilie=blaha.gif] thinking that then, let me call you a bitchmade fag ahead of time.

We can be one of the best halfcourt teams in the league, but we need another inside scorer somewhere to make it work offensively.

Bonzi Wells would be HUGE towards getting us back on track.

Let's face it: THere aren't any real quality centers left, even for the MLE, so Joe will have to make due until next year.

i can't believe this is true....i can't believe Ben would leave for 4 million...i can't believe the Pistons wouldn't even consider to pay more than 48/4...i hate Ben, i hate the Pistons and i hate the old fuck Davidson...

Ben's a very sensitive person. We've all seen bouts of his temper. I think after that offer was made, he didn't feel appreciated, and that's very important to him. The Bulls made him feel wanted, and, voila, he's playing in Chicago.

I can't imagine booing Ben Wallace, though. We won a title, 2 Eastern Conference titles, and had the best regular season record in franchise history with him as the anchor. He deserves to have a standing ovation when he returns, IMO.

im looking forward to reading all summer about what a bad person ben is. lets see some true colors by the detroit media.

and i'd do the same thing if i were ben. 4 mill to move to chicago? hell yea!

play for an ownership that is dedicated to winning instead billy pennypincher? hell yea!

the real question is, do you boo ben next year when he's sweeping our asses in the 1st round? i'd say i'd boo bill, but no chance in hell he's ever getting one of my dollars again.

Oh, come the fuck on.

Ok, ok. The Pistons have moles. But lets slow the fuck down, for chrissakes.

Chicago is dedicated to winning and the Pistons aren't?

Ben doesn't deserve some negative press after going from journeyman to superstar in Detroit and then bolting for a few bucks, with zero loyalty, and zero in return for Joe, who basically made him (aside from his own effort, of course)?

Bullshit.

This may or may not be all his fault, but don't take every negative article as merely a Pistons mole.

He deserves some positive press, and he definitely deserves a whole hell of a lot of negative press, too.

i can't believe this is true....i can't believe Ben would leave for 4 million...i can't believe the Pistons wouldn't even consider to pay more than 48/4...i hate Ben, i hate the Pistons and i hate the old fuck Davidson...

Ben's a very sensitive person. We've all seen bouts of his temper. I think after that offer was made, he didn't feel appreciated, and that's very important to him. The Bulls made him feel wanted, and, voila, he's playing in Chicago.

That is what makes this even more fucking depressing: The fact the team he helped win another championship and was the face of this organization could not pony up when it was their turn to say thanks. And do it in a proper way. Meaning to treat him like the fucking superstar that he is. This deal should have been worked a long time ago, I would be pissed if I was Ben too.

i can't believe this is true....i can't believe Ben would leave for 4 million...i can't believe the Pistons wouldn't even consider to pay more than 48/4...i hate Ben, i hate the Pistons and i hate the old fuck Davidson...

Ben's a very sensitive person. We've all seen bouts of his temper. I think after that offer was made, he didn't feel appreciated, and that's very important to him. The Bulls made him feel wanted, and, voila, he's playing in Chicago.

That is what makes this even more fucking depressing: The fact the team he helped win another championship and was the face of this organization could not pony up when it was their turn to say thanks. And do it in a proper way. Meaning to treat him like the fucking superstar that he is. This deal should have been worked a long time ago, I would be pissed if I was Ben too.

I think depressing is the word of the night.

This has to be due to Flip. It just doesn't make any sense any other way. Ben loves this city, he loves this team. Something had to really piss him off - and I'm 99% sure it's the Flipper. If we can get Chandler out of this, then we're not in that bad of shape. Chandler is better than nothing, and you never know - he could turn out to be the player he was supposed to be with this supporting cast.

Exactly how I feel.

Better hope the magic fuck up big time. We're not getting out of the 2nd round. I hardly think this is over 4million like some of you think.

This was a done deal a while ago. Like I said, Ben sold his house in MI and was looking in Chi. Fuck-a-flip.

Marc Stein says the money could be closer to 4 years, $60 million.

This just really fucking sucks. I cant fuckin believe it.

Fuck Darko for not panning out
Fuck Them for giving sheed more money than they were offering Ben
Fuck them for not matching the bulls
Fuck Flip for pissing off Ben
Fuck
Fuck
Fuck
Fuck

Um, we gave Sheed $10 million a year. We offered ben $12 million.

I love Joey D, but my patience is wearing thin there also.

As it stands, I keep hearing that we offered 49.6 million for 4 years.
If Chicago offered 52 and Ben was going to give us the middle finger for
600 G's a year after we supported the shit out of him during his complaining
about every fucking coach we've had here, fuck him.

He was my favorite player in the league for every year he's been here, but
what more does he want from us? To score? STFU and stop being a bitch.
He's complained about every fucking coach we've had and they've all been good
fuckin coaches. We've seen Ben get opportunities to score and it hasn't worked very well.
Peace out homie. If you didn't want to be here, don't be here. No love lost.

If it was on some "internal" shit, I understand.

Take care man.

Unfortunately I got my wish the way I didn't want it to happen. We're going
to see a lot of Jason Maxiell in the near future. I hope he kills people.

Whatever. We're fucked.
I saw this happening when we hired twitchy over there on the bench.

Amen, MOLA.

Time to move on.

As it stands, I keep hearing that we offered 49.6 million for 4 years.
If Chicago offered 52 and Ben was going to give us the middle finger for
600 G's a year after we supported the shit out of him during his complaining
about every fucking coach we've had here, fuck him.

He was my favorite player in the league for every year he's been here, but
what more does he want from us? To score? STFU and stop being a bitch.
He's complained about every fucking coach we've had and they've all been good
fuckin coaches. We've seen Ben get opportunities to score and it hasn't worked very well.
Peace out homie. If you didn't want to be here, don't be here. No love lost.

If it was on some "internal" shit, I understand.

Take care man.

Unfortunately I got my wish the way I didn't want it to happen. We're going
to see a lot of Jason Maxiell in the near future. I hope he kills people.
Jason Maxiell resident baby eating Piston.

McCoskey's on ESPNNews reporting $60 million as well.

As much as I love Ben, I can't totally blame the Pistons for not matching that.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060703/NEWS99/60703020

$15 million a season? NVM then, it might have been about the money then.

I don't blame Joe one bit for not matching that albatross.

I think more facts need to come out.

If it was 50-52 from the Bulls vs. 48 from the Pistons, fuck Ben for taking a few bucks and stiffing the Pistons, and fuck the Pistons for not ponying up a few more bucks.

But if it was 60 from the Bulls vs. 48 from the Pistons, then the Pistons brass made a wise decision in letting him go. A hustle player that old making that much money? Most of us are already on record as saying there is a ceiling to his worth. If he got 60, that's definitely above the ceiling, and they're better off without him.

I guess we can consider Dale Davis a free agent acquisition (again).

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/weblog/index.ssf?/mtlogs/mlive_pistons/archives/2006_07.html

Apparently, Ben was royally pissed that Peja got $64 million from NOK, and Detroit only offered him $50....

DIdn't know Ben was the type to compare his paycheck.....


A league source also confirmed that Wallace was even more upset with Detroit's offer when free-agent forward Peja Stojakovic landed a five-year, $64 million deal from the New Orleans/Oklahoma City Hornets, a player Wallace was rated higher than by just about every list of free agents.

Kilo got his wish. dont know if B-diddy wished for it. But i get the feeling part of him wanted this.
What did they wish for? the Darko trade to look ass backwards. Only one thing could do that. Us losing the heart and soul of the team. Now the heart and soul is Billups. As a player he's great, but he's more or less a tree hugging Flip loving hippie off the court.


while i do like being right, i didnt need ben leaving to make the darko trade look bad. its just now, it looks 10x worse. and no part of me wanted ben to leave.

beleive me, becoming sacramento east is not my idea of a good time.

It does depend on how much money they offered.

$52mil? Fuck him if he leaves for that

$60mil? Good for him.

No way we should pay that.

Now what do we do if we can't get something decent via S&T?

Do we trade for expiring contracts and rebuild?

Do we trade for a big man?

WTF?

the same bulls owner who was 'committed to winning' when he torn apart one of the greatest teams ever....?

look, ben wanted to go, plain and simple. you don't up and leave a team with all the history he has here for a relatively 'small' amount of money.

i said it for a long time- ben is not happy here and his play has shown it. i think on one hand it is great for the bulls, obviously- he should rediscover his passion for the game that was severely lacking this year. i don't care about his numbers or his DPOY award- ben was not HALF the player this year as he has been in year's past.

i said that all year, so don't anybody say i'm trashing him now just because he's gone. so many times out there he seemed to just be going through the motions and not attacking the ball the way he used to.

who knows why. it doesn't matter anymore. the point is, he wasn't happy and was not playing with his usual intensity. so now he has a new start in chicago and i'm sure he'll be motivated.

he could legitimately push the bulls to being a true contender.

however, if we had kept him at any cost, it totally throws our salary structure out the window. we only pay guys what we think they're worth, that's been our philosophy all along.

i personally think it would've been stupid to pay ben even what we initially offered and he rejected. call me whatever you want- disloyal or whatever- but i honestly feel that way.

why pay all that money to a guy who clearly wasn't happy most of the time and whose skills and motivation appeared to be greatly declined this year? what if we re-signed him to 4 years $52 million and he ends up playing the same way, with even less intensity? plus he's aging at the same time.

add those 2 things, and we might very well have ended up with a nightmare on our hands- a disgruntled superstar, or at least one who only plays to his ability now and then. IMO that was what ben did most of this year, intentionally or unintentionally. i don't know- probably unintentionally.

but i really believe if we brought him back, we would just be sitting here next year saying how we needed to change things and we fell short again. so maybe this will fast forward the 'reloading' process one year, instead of waiting until next year.

so yes- we're screwed now. especially that we don't have a young talent like darko waiting in the wings. that hurts. REAL bad. i'm no happier than anyone else. we can't even work a sign and trade, which could've helped a ton. i guess this is the payback for getting such a steal in the grant hill sign and trade. guess we were due some bad luck.

but it is what it is. we can cry about it all day and say 'what if' or 'we should've' all day long.

but it won't get us anywhere.

i'm very curious to see what joe has planned now. if we just use the MLE and try to go with a small lineup, we'll fall well short and be disappointed IMO.

dice is outstanding but he's a bench player, he should not start.

i hope joe explores all possible trade opportunities with guys like sheed especially...

i cant move on...i am still in shock... i am still asking myself WHY

who to blame:
1. old fuck Davidson: if its true and all Ben wanted is a 4 year deal, we should have payed Ben, no matter how much if its 50 or 55 or 60, i dont care...its just for 4 years...now its clear the Pistons and Davidson won't to pay Luxury tax for no one...i hope this old man dies soon and the Pistons get an owner
2. Joe D and the Pistons organization:no Memo, no Darko, and certainly not prepaired to pay Big Ben what he wanted...its time to move Sheed and Billups cause we aint gonna pay Billups either and Sheed is a waste of money
3. Ben is leaving the Pistons for 5-10 more mil...this is the sad part, i know its all about buisness but i still cant imagine Ben not beeing a Detroit Piston...Ben was cornerstone of this team..he's what Pistons basketball is all about...this was his only payday unlike the most NBA players who get there big pay in their mid 20's...without Ben and his energy we can't win anything anymore...

The only legit options now?

MLE on a big man to start at C.

Trade Sheed to NY for Frye, Taylor and Collins.

Frye and Dice start, with Maxiell, Taylor and Davis off the bench.

Collins, Delfino and the MLE off the bench

Prince, Rip and Billups remain as the core.

Next off-season we lose Billups, hope Dice opts out, renounce Davis and Taylor and make a run at a free agent.

Use the Magic's pick on a big man.

Rebuilding sucks shit.

THE SKY IS FALLING!

this is becoming comical.

We're re-signing Billups next year, I'm %100 sure of that.

Of course, I don't think Chauncey is such a greedy fuck that he'd ask way more than he's worth, either.

We re-signed Rip and Sheed. But because we didnt overpay ben, all of a sudden we're the worst-run franchise in the NBA, and we're never going to re-sign anybody ever again.

LOL @ this shit.

what worst of all, i just invested big coin in a wallace jersey last year. guess i'll just have to stick to my throwback jersey of zeke for now.

damn FA. it costs everybody money.

THE SKY IS FALLING!

this is becoming comical.

We're re-signign Billups next year, I'm %100 sure of that.
now you know what needs to happen for Kstat to relate. though he'd deny as much.

2. Joe D and the Pistons organization:no Memo, no Darko, and certainly not prepaired to pay Big Ben what he wanted
this is the biggest problem of all. you clear money for a guy then arent ready to do what you cleared money for. just weird stubborness all the way around.

Um, I listed options and losing Billups next off-season is one option.

If you can't fucking read it's not my fault.

Either we rebuild or we're content to make the playoffs every year and not contend.

Right now we're not even close to being contenders and if you think we are you're fooling yourself.

There is nothing wrong with going into rebuilding mode. We'd be doing it a year or 2 earlier than expected, but such is life.

We're not in rebuilding mode. Not being a contender anymore does not automatically send you into rebuilding mode.

We're 1 big piece away, or a few pretty good pieces. That's close enough to be worth keeping the core intact.

We have THREE all-stars left on this team. If that's not a solid starting point, I don't know what is.

i don't know if some of you think it through- if we pay ben whatever he wants, whatever it takes to keep him and don't follow our salary structure of paying guys their WORTH, then the price to keep each FA after ben just becomes that much higher.

it becomes more and more difficult to re-sign guys and before you know it, we vastly overpay everyone and then our salary structure is screwed. and we have a roster full of overpaid guys. that's not good business and it's not smart basketball.

i love ben. but i think people are remembering him for the player he WAS in 2004 or so, when he played with a crazy intensity all the time. that ben disappeared last year. sure, he was no scrub. but he was not NEAR the player he had been in the past. he lost his passion for the game and seemed to often be upset or sulking about things.

i'm not mad at him for it, he's human. but why pay a one way player that kind of coin when the very skills that once made him great, are diminishing/disappearing before our eyes, and even if they do return they are pretty much being outlawed by today's nba rules?

the bottom line is, we were not winning a title even if we brought him back. i think that's the hardest part for people to accept. they think if he came back and we signed a FA, we'd automatically be back winning titles. i don't think so.

sure we had a very good team. but something was not right, and IMO this team was getting stale. i know, i know. we won 64 games. but when we needed to, we could not get it done. and it was a lot more than just a 'slump'.

some i would blame on coaching, some on the players. but also some blame goes to the physical makeup of the team. yes, it worked in the past. but the game is officiated very differently now and teams around us are rapidly changing too.

if we tried to play the exact same style with the same players, we'd just be greatly disappointed again next may or june.

so ben is gone and now we've got to go back to the drawing board. it's bad now, but maybe necessary for this team in the longhaul anyway.

Exactly. SIgning Ben this year for $15 million a year would severely hurt our chances to re-sign billups next year.

Rip is getting paid what he's worth. So is Sheed. Ben wanted more.

our defense just did fall apart, we will be punished on the boards, and we wont be able to contain no one now, we lost our best shotblocker...i think people arent realizing what Ben did bring to this team... we re a medicore jumpshoting offensive team with a Coach who hasn't any clue of defense and cant make adjustments...

welcome to mediocrity

guys like Chauncey and RIP will really be exposed now...Chauncey's D is way overrated, he cant stay in front of half of the quick PGs...why fool ourselves we need a superstar and some young blood asap...we won't win the championchip anytime soon, Sheed needs to go, and i think Chauncey too

Exactly. SIgning Ben this year for $15 million a year would severely hurt our chances to re-sign billups next year.

Rip is getting paid what he's worth. So is Sheed. Ben wanted more.
which would kill your wet dreaming of billups. ...i'm kidding somewhat of course.[smilie=paca.gif]

We have three all all stars on this team and a core of solid young players. Ben isnt comming back cause he felt disrepsected by the Pistons offer and rightfully so. We cleared the space then got cheap when it was time to pay up. Are we contenders? If this years playoffs was any inducation, I say we wasnt regardless and maybe that us why the Pistons were reluctant to pay him 4 years 60 mill. The Bulls are a young team missing a few pieces, so its easier for them to justify the signing. I lump Ben a notch other Piston greats like Zeke, Joey D, and could not imagine those guys suiting up for someone else, and with Ben I saw the decline this year also, but it aint about what he does not do but what he does brings every night. I beleive he felt disrespected by the org, coaching staff, and a little taken for granted from some of the other players. We see a diffreent Ben in Chicago, I guarantee it.

We'll see how Ben deals with not getting the ball in chicago, where %90 of the shots get taken by their guards.

our defense just did fall apart, we will be punished on the boards, and we wont be able to contain no one now, we lost our best shotblocker...i think people arent realizing what Ben did bring to this team... we re a medicore jumpshoting offensive team with a Coach who hasn't any clue of defense and cant make adjustments...

welcome to mediocrity

guys like Chauncey and RIP will really be exposed now...Chauncey's D is way overrated, he cant stay in front of half of the quick PGs...why fool ourselves we need a superstar and some young blood asap...we won't win the championchip anytime soon, Sheed needs to go, and i think Chauncey too

The days of Chauncey Billups being an All-NBA defender are now over with Ben Wallace gone. That's a very good point. Even Prince's defense will be somewhat exposed (I always thought he benefitted the most from the Wallace's defensively).

But you can't pay Ben Wallace $15 million a season. You just can't.

I think Dumars picks up some pieces in the summer, doesn't trade the other 4 starters (or McDyess), and then evaluates the team until the trading deadline. If he makes a move, I think that's when he makes it, if it's necessary.

No one truly knows how good (or how bad) this team will be.

i would move everyone, and i would tank.

i have no interest in being 2nd round fodder for the bulls or the cavs or the heat or the nets or anyone else.

the pistons arent going to get by lebron next year, and theyre not going to get by lebron in 5 years, and hell, they probably arent going to get by lebron in 10 years. we have a team that was gassed last year. was unmotivated last year. now we're losing our team's most intense player, and the one guy who could be trusted to bring it every night. (i dont care that shaq made ben look bad last year. shaq, at times, looked like prime shaq. prime shaq isnt getting stopped by anyone.)

next year's draft has greg oden and maybe a few other guys that could be superstars. we're not ever going to get past the cavs by adding MLE FA's every year.

Exactly. SIgning Ben this year for $15 million a year would severely hurt our chances to re-sign billups next year.

Rip is getting paid what he's worth. So is Sheed. Ben wanted more.

Ben earned the right to be a bit overpayed by the Pistons...and if you follow the league and see scrubs getting the full MLE and young bigman getting 60 mil for nothing and now Peja getting payed ridiculous money, i can understand Ben's reaction...maybe its better we wont overpay for him now, but we wont compete for a title now anytime soon, i dont see how to get an allstar bigman anytime soon to replace Ben, its time to get one of the NBA's beloved superstars and rebuild
(and yes i tought we could compete for another title WITH Ben and some slasher off the bench)

lets get teal jerseys back in.

I'm actually surprised at how ready for this I was. We've had a couple of "What's Ben Worth?" threads and in those I was in the "he's become how I define the Pistons" crowd. But since its been an issue on the horizon for a while now I guess I stopped looking at him as such.

I think Kstat got a little too much heat in here. Looks like some were lashing out right at the begining.

Count me in with the "Fuck rebuilding" voice. The only way this team got to the top was from JoeD pulling Rasheed Wallace out of his ass. Maybe he can't do that again, but I don't think you start shedding the guys worth their contracts simply because you aren't good enough to win yet (or perhaps "again").

As for Ben. Pretty much everyone agreed that he's only worth keeping if his price is right. If $60 million is correct, then his price clearly wasn't right. Shit happens. We got some good bargins on the way up, took advantage of teams and situations to get a title. Now teams are looking our way to take advantage of the rock and a hard place we find ourselves in.

Yeah, the whole Darko timeline is a big FU to Detroit.

I hope everyone had fun being on top, because its back to the climb once again. I say bring that shit on. The climb is part of the fun. "The hard is what makes it great."

Tayshaun is going to be exposed. He could play his man tighter because he knew that if his man blew by him, Ben would be there to clean up his mess. This maximized his length and allowed him to greatly effect opposition jumpers. Now if he plays his man too tight, they'll blow by him and attack the rim, and if he plays off them(to make up for his lack of speed), they'll shoot over him.

If it is $60M, I don't blame the Pistons for not signing him. However I do blame Dumars for not having the foresight to realize that somebody quite possibly could offer Ben Wallace money that we were unwilling to match and not holding on to a certain 21 yr old 7'1" 265lb asset "just in case".

Anyone else feel like this might be a dream?

Anyone else feel like this might be a nightmare?
i fixed it for you. :cool:

We aint getting anyone. The Pistons have loved the whole no superstar team concept shit, but we alsways did have a superstar, He just did not shoot fall away threes and impress with this offense ability how most NBA superstars are seen. Know that he is gone, these other players that I still love will be unfortuneately be exposed for what they are: good role players. No longer will they have the help defense for their defensive fuck ups. Look what happened when Ben played like shit, the Pistons got their ass handed to them courtesy of the Heat. We are Milwaukee now or damn do i dare say that they may even be better than us?

we can't afford superstars until billups, Rip, and sheed are gone. Like i said before i want to see maxiell get a shot.

1) i for one would have signed ben at 60. why the fuck not? you have to spend to contend in this league. pistons should have said: "hey, we've been the best economical team of all time. good run, but now its time to pony up and reward the guys who got us here".

the spurs pay big. the heat pay big. everyone that wins pays big (except the pistons).

2) hoping that another sheed deal falls on our lap is worse than wishful thinking. two things had to happen for that deal to work: 1) sheed was completely given away. 2) we had 17 million dollars in expendable contracts that made the deal work. penny pincher has been shedding deals at every chance he got. right now, we have <$5 million in expendable contracts (Dale, carlos, and jason maxiel) and a 1.5 million TE. i guess you could through dyess in there, and we're at ~10, but then we have a basketball team that goes exactly 5 deep, which isnt too much depth.

but dont blame bill. he doesnt owe you shit.

60 MILL IS A BARGAIN FOR 4 YEARS MORE OF TITTLE CONTENDING, SO WHY NOT PAY UP? DALLAS, MIAMI, AND THE SPURS ARE LAUGHING THEIR ASSES OF RIGHT NOW.

Hmm...

hmm....

The Heat paid Shaq.

The Spurs paid Duncan.

Ben is not in either player's league.

Try again, better luck next time.

Anyone else feel like this might be a dream?

2 nights ago I had a dream about Ben Wallace, the only dream I ever had about Ben Wallace.

He was shot in the back walking to a basketball court in a prison camp.

I guess the dream signifies what he has done to Detroit Fans.

60 MILL IS A BARGAIN FOR 4 YEARS MORE OF TITTLE CONTENDING, SO WHY NOT PAY UP? DALLAS, MIAMI, AND THE SPURS ARE LAUGHING THEIR ASSES OF RIGHT NOW.


We wouldn't be title contenders for 4 more years. We'd be a contender for 1 year (and a weak one at that), and after Ben's overpriced deal prevented us from re-signing chauncey, we'd be stuck in cap hell.

60 MILL IS A BARGAIN FOR 4 YEARS MORE OF TITTLE CONTENDING, SO WHY NOT PAY UP? DALLAS, MIAMI, AND THE SPURS ARE LAUGHING THEIR ASSES OF RIGHT NOW.

To be fair, the price tag would be $120M because Billups will want to get paid next season, after playing for the MLE for the last five years.

Is having Ben better than not having Ben?

Hell yes.

But to Bill Davidson it's better to not pay the luxury tax than to keep a title contender together.

60 MILL IS A BARGAIN FOR 4 YEARS MORE OF TITTLE CONTENDING, SO WHY NOT PAY UP? DALLAS, MIAMI, AND THE SPURS ARE LAUGHING THEIR ASSES OF RIGHT NOW.


We wouldn't be title contenders for 4 more years. We'd be a contender for 1 year (and a weak one at that), and after Ben's overpriced deal prevented us from re-signing chauncey, we'd be stuck in cap hell.

LOL The only thing stopping us from keeping Chauncey would be Davidson's cheapness. Shut your fucking mouth. You care more about Dumbo's profit margins than this team winning.

Chauncey's D is way overrated, he cant stay in front of half of the quick PGs...



No doubt about it. Rip guards the quicker PG and they put Billups on the SG. Rip is a much better defensive player that Billups.

I am interested to see what Joe D has planned. He said in that press conference that he has a contingency. Personally, I think that is a crock of shit. Its funny because a lot of the players we wanted to add have already signed. Claxton, Jackson, Nene, BEN, and others to be sure. This is going to be a painful offseason.

Joe D has to learn that loyalty means shit to NBA players and that you can't lowball them. Like most folks, they want to get paid. Its now twice that the cornerstones of the Pistons franchise has left us. Losing Hill hurt, Losing Ben kills.

in other news Lindsey just got a 2 year/ 4.5 mil deal...LOL@the Pistons

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/weblog/index.ssf?/mtlogs/mlive_pistons/archives/2006_07.html#157737


Lindsey re-signs
The Pistons got their first commitment of the free agency period from Lindsey Hunter, who will sign a two-year deal worth about $4.5 million. He can't sign the deal until July 12.

Oh, it gets better for Hunter.

When his contract is up, Hunter will also be given a position within the organization, primarily assisting president of basketball operations, Joe Dumars.

"That's what makes this all really special, an opportunity to work with Joe when my playing days are over," Hunter said. "I'm looking forward to playing, but I'm also looking forward to what lies ahead for me when I'm done playing, too."

Hunter said the Phoenix Suns showed a lot of interest, but his desire was to return to Detroit.

"This is where I wanted to be," Hunter said. "I wasn't real thrilled with the idea of moving my family, so this worked out great."

In all likelihood, Hunter will be Chauncey Billups' backup at the point, with the third point guard possibly being rookie Will Blalock or second-yeard guard Alex Acker, who is a shooting guard who got most of his practice last season primarily at the point guard position

60 MILL IS A BARGAIN FOR 4 YEARS MORE OF TITTLE CONTENDING, SO WHY NOT PAY UP? DALLAS, MIAMI, AND THE SPURS ARE LAUGHING THEIR ASSES OF RIGHT NOW.


We wouldn't be title contenders for 4 more years. We'd be a contender for 1 year (and a weak one at that), and after Ben's overpriced deal prevented us from re-signing chauncey, we'd be stuck in cap hell.

LOL The only thing stopping us from keeping Chauncey would be Davidson's cheapness. Shut your fucking mouth. You care more about Dumbo's profit margins than this team winning.

Of course, I'd be a Pistons fan, which is something you will never be.

Hmm...

hmm....

The Heat paid Shaq.

The Spurs paid Duncan.

Ben is not in either player's league.

Try again, better luck next time.

the heat paid walker. the heat paid white chocalate. the heat paid posey. the heat will, shockingly, extend wade. theyll bring back zo.

try again, better luck next time.

Is having Ben better than not having Ben?

Hell yes.

But to Bill Davidson it's better to not pay the luxury tax than to keep a title contender together.

An interesting fact would be how much did the Pistons lose/not make from not being in the Finals this year (Food,Drinks,Shirts,Parking,Tickets)?

Hmm...

hmm....

The Heat paid Shaq.

The Spurs paid Duncan.

Ben is not in either player's league.

Try again, better luck next time.

the heat paid walker. the heat paid white chocalate. the heat paid posey. the heat will, shockingly, extend wade. theyll bring back zo.

try again, better luck next time.

The heat didn't sign any of those guys to free agent contracts, and they signed Zoo for peanuts.

So sorry, better luck next time.

Lindsey re-signs

Topping on the cake, what a shitty day. I bet this was done just for a PR move. Does not look as if you are going after a back-up PG. Billups,Hunter, Acker, Blaylock. Please re-sign Billups and hope to God that he does not get miss any games.

60 MILL IS A BARGAIN FOR 4 YEARS MORE OF TITTLE CONTENDING, SO WHY NOT PAY UP? DALLAS, MIAMI, AND THE SPURS ARE LAUGHING THEIR ASSES OF RIGHT NOW.


We wouldn't be title contenders for 4 more years. We'd be a contender for 1 year (and a weak one at that), and after Ben's overpriced deal prevented us from re-signing chauncey, we'd be stuck in cap hell.

LOL The only thing stopping us from keeping Chauncey would be Davidson's cheapness. Shut your fucking mouth. You care more about Dumbo's profit margins than this team winning.

Of course, I'd be a Pistons fan, which is something you will never be.


I'm a Piston fan.

You're a Bill Davidson fan.

I want titles.

You want higher profit margins for an 80 year old billioaire.

Hmm...

hmm....

The Heat paid Shaq.

The Spurs paid Duncan.

Ben is not in either player's league.

Try again, better luck next time.
I agree he aint in a young Shaq's league, but we are talking about the DPOY with a championship of his own right? Like I said we read too much into stats with Ben. You dont compare him to them by stats then quanify his worth monetarily to the Pistons. And to say we coudnt get Chauncy back if we paid Wallace is fucking stupid. Do you really beleive Billups stays on a sinking ship now, and year from now when we win 40 fucking games who the fuck is to say he comes back or the Pistons even want an aging slow PG?

in other news Lindsey just got a 2 year/ 4.5 mil deal...LOL@the Pistons

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/weblog/index.ssf?/mtlogs/mlive_pistons/archives/2006_07.html#157737


Lindsey re-signs
The Pistons got their first commitment of the free agency period from Lindsey Hunter, who will sign a two-year deal worth about $4.5 million. He can't sign the deal until July 12.

Oh, it gets better for Hunter.

When his contract is up, Hunter will also be given a position within the organization, primarily assisting president of basketball operations, Joe Dumars.

"That's what makes this all really special, an opportunity to work with Joe when my playing days are over," Hunter said. "I'm looking forward to playing, but I'm also looking forward to what lies ahead for me when I'm done playing, too."

Hunter said the Phoenix Suns showed a lot of interest, but his desire was to return to Detroit.

"This is where I wanted to be," Hunter said. "I wasn't real thrilled with the idea of moving my family, so this worked out great."

In all likelihood, Hunter will be Chauncey Billups' backup at the point, with the third point guard possibly being rookie Will Blalock or second-yeard guard Alex Acker, who is a shooting guard who got most of his practice last season primarily at the point guard position

That's awesome, thats like waking up and finding a 10 dollar bill on your dresser.

But a condom in you ass.

60 MILL IS A BARGAIN FOR 4 YEARS MORE OF TITTLE CONTENDING, SO WHY NOT PAY UP? DALLAS, MIAMI, AND THE SPURS ARE LAUGHING THEIR ASSES OF RIGHT NOW.


We wouldn't be title contenders for 4 more years. We'd be a contender for 1 year (and a weak one at that), and after Ben's overpriced deal prevented us from re-signing chauncey, we'd be stuck in cap hell.

LOL The only thing stopping us from keeping Chauncey would be Davidson's cheapness. Shut your fucking mouth. You care more about Dumbo's profit margins than this team winning.

Of course, I'd be a Pistons fan, which is something you will never be.


I'm a Piston fan.

You're a Bill Davidson fan.

I want titles.

You want higher profit margins for an 80 year old billioaire.

You haven't rooted for the pistons once in your entire life. The thought of you as a Pistons fan is a complete and utter joke. You only live to bash them.

oh, i didnt know you didnt have to pay guys when you trade for them...

and no, they didnt sign zo for peanuts. they havent signed him yet. but they will, cuz theyre smart enough to keep a title contender together. because, only idiots would break up a title contender over a few million dollars.

oh, i didnt know you didnt have to pay guys when you trade for them...

and no, they didnt sign zo for peanuts. they havent signed him yet. but they will, cuz theyre smart enough to keep a title contender together. because, only idiots would break up a title contender over a few million dollars.

Yeah, I'm sure they're going to sign Zo to $60 million. LOL.

THey already had bad contracts when they traded for the guys you just mentioned. That doesn't show willingness to pay for a championhip, it showed their willing ness to trade bad players with big contracts for assholes with big contracts.

60 MILL IS A BARGAIN FOR 4 YEARS MORE OF TITTLE CONTENDING, SO WHY NOT PAY UP? DALLAS, MIAMI, AND THE SPURS ARE LAUGHING THEIR ASSES OF RIGHT NOW.


We wouldn't be title contenders for 4 more years. We'd be a contender for 1 year (and a weak one at that), and after Ben's overpriced deal prevented us from re-signing chauncey, we'd be stuck in cap hell.

LOL The only thing stopping us from keeping Chauncey would be Davidson's cheapness. Shut your fucking mouth. You care more about Dumbo's profit margins than this team winning.

Of course, I'd be a Pistons fan, which is something you will never be.


I'm a Piston fan.

You're a Bill Davidson fan.

I want titles.

You want higher profit margins for an 80 year old billioaire.

You haven't rooted for the pistons once in your entire life. The thought of you as a Pistons fan is a complete and utter joke. You only live to bash them.

You only care about Bill Davidson's profit margins. You aren't a Piston fan. A real Piston fan wouldn't be FOR losing an all-star for nothing.

60 MILL IS A BARGAIN FOR 4 YEARS MORE OF TITTLE CONTENDING, SO WHY NOT PAY UP? DALLAS, MIAMI, AND THE SPURS ARE LAUGHING THEIR ASSES OF RIGHT NOW.


We wouldn't be title contenders for 4 more years. We'd be a contender for 1 year (and a weak one at that), and after Ben's overpriced deal prevented us from re-signing chauncey, we'd be stuck in cap hell.

LOL The only thing stopping us from keeping Chauncey would be Davidson's cheapness. Shut your fucking mouth. You care more about Dumbo's profit margins than this team winning.

Of course, I'd be a Pistons fan, which is something you will never be.


I'm a Piston fan.

You're a Bill Davidson fan.

I want titles.

You want higher profit margins for an 80 year old billioaire.

You haven't rooted for the pistons once in your entire life. The thought of you as a Pistons fan is a complete and utter joke. You only live to bash them.

You only care about Bill Davidson's profit margins. You aren't a Piston fan. A real Piston fan wouldn't be FOR losing an all-star for nothing.

A Pistons fan wouldn't hate the entire team every year either.

I've never hated the entire team EVER. I have hated certain picks, certain coaching decisions and certain players shot selection. I've never hated the team. You though want an all-star gone so Mr. Burns can make more money. You don't give a fuck about the team.

I've never hated the entire team EVER. I have hated certain picks, certain coaching decisions and certain players shot selection. I've never hated the team. You though want an all-star gone so Mr. Burns can make more money. You don't give a fuck about the team.


Yeah, which is why you haven't said a single positive thing about anyone still ina piston uniform in however the fuck long you've been here. Please.

There is nobody happier about this than YOU, because it gives you another chance to bash the organization, which is what you do best.

I've just been right about Davidson for years. I've been posting with the cats on this forum far longer than you. The reason I've been unhappy with this team the last two years is because I knew they weren't good enough to win it all. I'm not happy with 2nd place or losing in the ECF. No real fan should be.

But at least you can be happy that Bill's avoiding the luxury tax since that's all your bitch ass cares about.

Please take your little pissing contest to that pay-for-posting board or PM your little bullshit fest to each other.

As for the whole "our team's defense is gone" comments. It was pretty much gone last year but I do agree this means it won't be back.

Please take your little pissing contest to that pay-for-posting board or PM your little bullshit fest to each other.

As for the whole "our team's defense is gone" comments. It was pretty much gone last year but I do agree this means it won't be back.

I agree on your whole post.

If we were to get our team D back, it would need to start with the coach

http://www.mlive.com/weblogs/fullcourtpress/index.ssf?/mtlogs/mlive_fcpress/archives/2006_07.html#157710

Ben Wallace speaks about leaving the Pistons
Chris McCosky has the first published quotes from Ben Wallace reacting to signing with the Chicago Bulls


July 3, Detroit News: "I appreciate everything Detroit did for me and my family," Wallace said Monday night, confirming that he will sign a four-year deal with the Bulls on July 12, the first day free agents are able to sign new contracts. "They gave me an opportunity to make a name for myself and we had an opportunity to win a championship together."

This is always going to be a special place.

"This is just one of those things. When you get a chance to sign a deal of a lifetime, it's tough to let it go."
...
Pistons president Joe Dumars confirmed the news late Monday night, but didn't want to make any comment. Wallace's agent Arn Tellem and Chicago Bulls general manager John Paxson also confirmed the news.

"Man, to me, this is still, like, unbelievable (that he's leaving Detroit)," Wallace said. "I talked to Joe. There are no hard feelings and this was nothing personal. He understands how these things go. This is all just part of the business."


The story also has different contract figures than the 4-year, $52 million deal reported earlier.


The Bulls, who initially made no offer when general manager John Paxson and coach Scott Skiles came to visit Wallace on Saturday, apparently upped the ante considerably on Monday. They offered Wallace a four-year deal starting at $14 million, which would make the total value of the contract just under $60 million.

The Pistons' initial offer to Wallace was a four-year deal worth $49.6 million, starting at $11.5 million. Even though that offer would have made Wallace the richest player on the team, Wallace was disappointed.

He was further disappointed when he was told the Pistons wouldn't raise their offer more than $12 million to start, which would have raised the overall value to $51.8 million.

Ben at 4 years / 60 million is overpriced no matter how you look at it. His play was mediocre in this years playoffs and I only see him getting worse. It will hurt this year not having him but in 2 years we'll be glad that we didn't pay him all that cash. He isn't going to get any better and isn't worth what he got.

I think we see the old Ben next year. He is in a place he feels appreciated with a young/hungry team. They will lean on Ben for leadership and he will thrive in his role there, Will he grab 15 boards a game and dominate every game? I doubt it but I tell you what the Bulls will love what he brings every night and realize his worth aint in the fucking stat sheet. Something the Pistons and some on this website fail to realize. with the core they got plus Ben, they are contenders in the East instantly.

well shit. i was pissed but since the bulls gave 60 i cant complain. i guess ill be deflating the inflatable ben now.

Ben at 4 years / 60 million is overpriced no matter how you look at it. His play was mediocre in this years playoffs and I only see him getting worse. It will hurt this year not having him but in 2 years we'll be glad that we didn't pay him all that cash. He isn't going to get any better and isn't worth what he got.

I don't think the Bulls care, they just killed the best starting 5 in the NBA, made their team better, and improved the chances they make it into the 2nd round of the playoffs.

Yeah honestly that's too much cash. Can't really justify spending that much but it blows because our championship opportunities are pretty much crap now.

Wallace helped Detroit advance in the playoffs in 2002 -- for the first time since 1991 -- get to the conference finals in 2003, win a title in 2004 and reach the finals last year. The Pistons won an NBA-high and franchise-record 64 games last season, then lost to the eventual champion Miami Heat in the Eastern Conference finals.

During the regular season this past year, he ranked fourth in the NBA in rebounding (11.3), ninth in blocks (2.2) and 10th in steals (1.78) -- the only player among the top 10 in all three categories. The undrafted free agent from Virginia Union became the fifth player in league history to have 100 blocks and 100 steals in six straight seasons, a list that includes Hakeem Olajuwon, Julius Erving, Sam Lacey and David Robinson.

Look what this guy has done for us. You are right, he aint worth the 60 mill! And I can see the whole he is declining thing being an issue also.

I just cannot wait untill Chicago finds out he can't play a lick of O and he's 33 and can't block a shot if his life depended on it any more. Chicago will be a good team because of their young core, but I don't think Ben makes them as better as people think. As for us, we have absolutlely no Center. We are fucked and I will be surpirsed if we can get higher than the 7th seed this upcoming season.


If Chauncey and Rip play like last season, Sheed stops fucking around, and we can get maybe Nazi Mohmamed maybe this team will still be contenders.

I just cannot wait untill Chicago finds out he can't play a lick of O and he's 33 and can't block a shot if his life depended on it any more. Chicago will be a good team because of their young core, but I don't think Ben makes them as better as people think. As for us, we have absolutlely no Center. We are fucked and I will be surpirsed if we can get higher than the 7th seed this upcoming season.


If Chauncey and Rip play like last season, Sheed stops fucking around, and we can get maybe Nazi Mohmamed maybe this team will still be contenders.

I can't wait until you realize that Ben isn't going to bail us out with rebounds anymore, and how hard that is going to hurt this offensively challenged group of players.

The Following Teams are now better than Detroit

New Jersey
Chicago
Miami
Bucks ( no BS )
Orlando
Boston (if they get Ivo)
Cleveland
Edit- Shit i forgot Washington, yeah they'll fucking destoy us.


Pistons aren't winning 50 games this year, and they are getting bounced in round 1 of the playoffs.

IMO Joe f'd up or Mr. D forced him to be stupid. What I mean by that is at least if Joe would have acted like he was willing to go higher he might have got leverage to do a S&T. Pissing Ben off with the we won't go higher BS drove him into the arms of Paxson.

IMO Joe f'd up or Mr. D forced him to be stupid. What I mean by that is at least if Joe would have acted like he was willing to go higher he might have got leverage to do a S&T. Pissing Ben off with the we won't go higher BS drove him into the arms of Paxson.

I agree. I can't believe we didn't get some compensation out of thise deal.

It confirms what many of us said...Ben didn't play with his usual intensity in the playoffs and that he didn't want to be here.

If we picked up the pieces after GHill left we can do it again. Look at the talent we have now compared to when crutches left for the OMag.

BTW anyone who would like to apologize to me for the personal attacks when I said that Ben's refusing to go back into the game was moronic and could lead to a much bigger issue come FA. Please Send them to my PM Box...

Thanks And I Accept you apology in advance...

BTW anyone who would like to apologize to me for the personal attacks when I said that Ben's refusing to go back into the game was moronic and could lead to a much bigger issue come FA. Please Send them to my PM Box...

Thanks And I Accept you apology in advance...
i'm glad i just said you were wrong w/o the personal attack. :cool: ...not as much crow to eat.

If Ben got $60m then that is what he is "worth". He was worth $60m to the Bulls brass, but not to the Pistons brass.

I don't think he is being greedy, you guys can't expect him to turn this deal down, especially if he hates the coach and the direction that the team is going.

It's not like he is going to a lottery team, if they pull off a good deal for Chandler (Al Harrington?), they could be the best team in the East right now.

The real travesty is not that we traded Darko, it's what we got in return.

By the way, as of right now, I'd start DD and keep Dice in the same role. Lindsey being our #2 PG is almost as big of a porblem right now as Ben being gone IMO, if you take the emotional side of it out.

The shine has really come off Joe D's "best GM in the league" moniker, that's for sure.

If Ben got $60m then that is what he is "worth". He was worth $60m to the Bulls brass, but not to the Pistons brass.

I don't think he is being greedy, you guys can't expect him to turn this deal down, especially if he hates the coach and the direction that the team is going.

It's not like he is going to a lottery team, if they pull off a good deal for Chandler (Al Harrington?), they could be the best team in the East right now.

The real travesty is not that we traded Darko, it's what we got in return.

By the way, as of right now, I'd start DD and keep Dice in the same role. Lindsey being our #2 PG is almost as big of a porblem right now as Ben being gone IMO, if you take the emotional side of it out.

The shine has really come off Joe D's "best GM in the league" moniker, that's for sure.


I agree, Joe and Billy D are the bad guys BEn did what he did because the CBA allows him to. Somebody should tell the Piston's brass the NBA has a soft cap.

I also think a suitable platoon of C's can be found cheaper than hoping the SF you sign at the BAE can score 12 ppg when he is a career 5 ppg guy.

Screw Ben Wallace. Good riddance. Sure he was great here and helped us to win a title, but now he's going to bolt for more money? That's ridiculous. Ben was an icon in Detroit, was extremely close with all of his teammates and was on a championship caliber team where he fit in perfectly. And a few extra bucks is more important than that?

Good, go, and take your aging 33 year old ass, your pathetic offensive skills, and your 24% free throw percentage with you.

A lot of that was me just being pissed off at Ben. I thought his heart was in Detroit and he wouldn't be like everyone else in the world and bolt for the cash. I'm disappointed. With all that said, the Pistons just got a lot worse. Joe D had a really bad year.

This is the part where I hope and pray we win another championship to stick it to the people who left. And then I wake up.

You can't blame the Pistons for being too cheap to sign Ben, IMO, because I don't think it was Davidson refusing to pay a few million extra. I think it was Dumars refusing to tie up so much salary in an aging hustle player with few learned skills, in a fast changing offensive minded league.

In other words, it wasn't so much a penny pinching move as a strategic move.

Maybe it was the right one. Maybe it was the wrong one. But I honestly don't think the Pistons were worried as much about a few more million than they were the future direction of the team.

Yeah, the Pistons just got worse, but I would take a down year over paying Ben $60 for the next 4 years.

Plus, the league (Stern) is moving away form the defensive-minded, grind-it-out, type of basketball and Ben was a liablity on the offensive end of the floor. The Pistons did often play 4-on-5 on offense and i don't care how much Ben bitched about not getting the ball, he couldn't score worth a damn.

That being said, i'm not too high on the remaining FA big men that are out there, either.

Well we''ll see if Davidson is a cheap fuck or not right now. We have multiple needs, a big man to replace Ben, a slasher/scorer, and a backup PG. We still don't have cap room so............ seriously we should be signing all 3 of those, regardless of it goes into the luxury tax or not.

I liked what Wetzel had to say in his yahoo piece. Basically he said that the Pistons should have paid Ben Wallace the money and kept him because our window to win was now, and we let that get away in hopes of being good in 4-5 years, when good simply won't be good enough because Lebron James, Dwight Howard and Dwayne Wade(Chris Bosh?) will be running the league. So we gave up being a contender now, in order to be good in the future, realizing being good doesn't win you championships.

The way you win in the nba is to contend and then tank and rebuild. If you try to consistantly be good, you'll forever be a play-off team but never will win a championship(you'll be capped out, getting mid-to-late first round picks). It's probably good bu$ine$$ to be a perennial play-off team, but don't expect to raise the trophy.

Well we''ll see if Davidson is a cheap fuck or not right now. We have multiple needs, a big man to replace Ben, a slasher/scorer, and a backup PG. We still don't have cap room so............ seriously we should be signing all 3 of those, regardless of it goes into the luxury tax or not.

We don't have the salary cap space to sign anybody. We have the MLE and that's it. The MLE is roughly $5.4M - that's how much we have to spend on free-agents this off-season.

exactly kilo. signing ben wallace doesnt hamstring the pistons at all. regardless, we're still over the cap. next year, we're still over the cap (unless we let chauncy walk too... hmm, more likely than we think?). we're only going to be adding MLE pieces.

we have just as little flexibility now as if we signed ben.

which pisses me off that not one sports writer (maybe wojo) will say that.

instead, we'll get the same bs. of course, those same writers talked about how much cap space we got for trading darko. they might also mention the 'new' nba, where defense doesnt win. except the bulls are going to beat the holy fuck out of the pistons next year, and its not going to be cuz they can score.

The worst part of it al is that we needed to improve our bench this season, and we actually are shallower than when the season ended. We could have kept Ben Wallace and used the MLE to add a key player to our bench, now we have to use the MLE to "replace" Ben and basically call it an off-season.

well, a S&T is still possible for bonzi or harrington. i dont see how or why it would happen. but if we could bring either of those 2 in and then sign pryz to the MLE, i think we would have had the best possible offseason in which we let ben walk away.

i wont be happy, but atleast i'd say joe is still somewhat of a decent gm.

and i'd still rather blow this up and rebuild. but rebuilding teams dont sell out, so we all know that will never happen.

Who could we offer in the S&T though? Assuming each of those players will sign for $7M/season at least(which is a stretch in Harrington's case). We'd just be murderizing more of our depth.

dale davis maybe, his is expiring after this season. Its probably not quite enough?

dale davis maybe, his is expiring after this season. Its probably not quite enough?

Dale Davis is making $3.5 this season, we also have the Mo Evans TE worth $1.5M but that still wouldn't be enough.

I hate to be the voice of reason here, because we know I wasn't in years' past, but...

It's not that big a deal. It hurts more because he's the icon than it hurts on the court.

We still have three all-stars (although a case can also be made for Prince). We now shift Antonio McDyess into the starting lineup and see what he can do. We now open up some playing time off the bench for Amir Johnson, who could be the next big piece.

Although Ben had some spectacular years, we all know he was going to start fading. Maybe he has one more great year in Chicago, and then fades. Who knows?

But as a leader of my own organization, I know when a key piece "off the top" goes one way or another, you shift everybody up a notch and move on. The Pistons were (are) great because they are a team. They're still a team and I don't know that our chances are affected that greatly. It would have been more of a problem to lose a Chauncey Billups or a Richard Hamilton, IMO. Don't blow the thing up. I don't think Joe will, anyway.

Things just got more interesting, IMO. And I've been waiting for that.

Look at the bright side...We had Ben when he was at his best and his contract was the lowest.

The downside will be replacing him. But I bet there will be some FA that would love a chance to play with the boys and might give a little to make it happen.

When Ben returns to Detroit, he 'gets the boo treatment', standing O, a mix?

dale davis maybe, his is expiring after this season. Its probably not quite enough?

We're not going to find a better backup center that makes less $ than DD.

Davis is going to be a key part of the rotation now, not trade fodder, IMO.

I like DD and championed him for more playing time last year, saying he was a poor mans Ben Wallace. As long as he isn't rusty from not playing last season, and that father time hasn't bumrushed him this off-season, I'd like to keep him as well.

dale davis maybe, his is expiring after this season. Its probably not quite enough?

We're not going to find a better backup center that makes less $ than DD.

Davis is going to be a key part of the rotation now, not trade fodder, IMO.
IMO Dale Davis does all pryzbilla does exactly to a tee. only difference being age. I dont think Dale is starter material, nor do i think pryz is either. I'm just hoping Maxiell steps up like i'm expecting him to. His growth can keep us athletic at 5 positions still with Dyess.

Seeing Okur in the background of GG's pic, makes me wish we could have kept him right about now.

Seeing Okur in the background of GG's pic, makes me wish we could have kept him right about now.
yea we gave up alot to keep Ben and Sheed since 2004, Unfortunately only Sheed and Tayshaun decided not to be overzealous about our success when contract time came.[smilie=sad3.gif]

When Ben returns to Detroit, he 'gets the boo treatment', standing O, a mix?

I hope it's a standing ovation. Hopefully, people remember everything the Pistons accomplished with Ben Wallace as the heart and soul of the team. That's definitely worth a standing ovation in my book.

Good article from ESPN.com
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&id=2508827&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab1pos1

The bad:

Sure, they could go on the free-agent market and try to lure a player such as Joel Przybilla or Nazr Mohammed. Both guys are physical, and both rebound and block shots. But they're poor imitations of Wallace. The Pistons were unable to win the title the past two years with the real thing. What makes you expect they can do it with a knockoff?

Choosing not to sign Wallace also has consequences. It makes an already thin Pistons team thinner. The Pistons don't have the cap room to make a run at a major free agent, meaning they'll have to piece together replacements with the mid-level exception and the draft. It seems unlikely that the Pistons would get better in the process.

Losing Ben is traumatic enough. But his loss likely forever changes the Pistons as we know them.

The good:

However, a change might do the Pistons good. The best plan might be to move Rasheed Wallace to the five and McDyess into the starting lineup at the four. That makes the Pistons bigger, more athletic and improves their offense significantly. They'll no longer have to play four-on-five every night on the offensive end of the floor.

Saunders isn't averse to playing this way, and he certainly has the tools to get it done. Chauncey Billups' instincts are to push the ball. Hamilton, Prince and Rasheed Wallace can stretch the defense with their shooting. McDyess does much of the dirty work that Ben Wallace did. And the Pistons do have players on their bench who can help.

As for Wallace? He heads to a Chicago Bulls team that already has a problem scoring. With the exception of Ben Gordon and (late in the season) Andreas Nocioni, the team didn't have a consistent scoring threat.

Adding Wallace to the mix doesn't help that. He may be the only center in the league that's worse than Tyson Chandler offensively. While he adds defensive grit and shot-blocking, the Bulls used almost all of their cap space to get him. They overpaid big time and will have to live with that contract for the next four years.

If they don't find a consistent low-post scorer (the Bulls are shopping Chandler looking for one) they could be in a position similar to the one the Pistons found themselves in last season: plenty of defense, but no offense to speak of.

If that happens, it will be the ultimate irony for Wallace. He left thinking that he'd written the obituary of the franchise. Instead, it might be Big Ben and the Bulls for whom the bell tolls.

Maybe things won't be quite so bad after all.

When Ben returns to Detroit, he 'gets the boo treatment', standing O, a mix?


I'll be there, and I'll boo, mostly for the way that he left and using the media as tool to make him look better for leaving after their "hurtful" offer.

However, a change might do the Pistons good. The best plan might be to move Rasheed Wallace to the five and McDyess into the starting lineup at the four. That makes the Pistons bigger, more athletic and improves their offense significantly.
Its good to see how much they dont know.

But as to what varsity said, i'm booing Ben much like i'm booing woodson in football. both guys still have my respect. But neither wanted to be with their teams. So fuck em both they are enemies.

Ben deserves a standing Ovation. But i won't be giving him one. I'd rather be an asshole much like him and the pistons organization. Boo them all at this point. Cheer for the players on the court, but boooooo to everyone from the coach to the owner(arnie and mike get a pass though)

However, a change might do the Pistons good. The best plan might be to move Rasheed Wallace to the five and McDyess into the starting lineup at the four. That makes the Pistons bigger, more athletic and improves their offense significantly.
Its good to see how much they dont know.

But as to what varsity said, i'm booing Ben much like i'm booing woodson in football. both guys still have my respect. But neither wanted to be with their teams. So fuck em both they are enemies.

Ben deserves a standing Ovation. But i won't be giving him one. I'd rather be an asshole much like him and the pistons organization. Boo them all at this point. Cheer for the players on the court, but boooooo to everyone from the coach to the owner(arnie and mike get a pass though)

Yeah son, don't fuck with Arnie. Only unmoveable guy in the organization.

I can't possibly read all 19 pages here without shooting myself, but it seems a lot of people are assuming a sign and trade here, but I don't see anything at all that suggests that's a given. Looks like Ben is leaving free and clear and we get nothing. Why would he want his new team to dump other players that can help them win when they have the cap space? Why help Detroit get someone else to replace him when we're in the same division? It's things like that, where it seems he's really sticking it to Detroit, that will make me want to boo him. But after the last 5 1/2 years, before he became a Pippen-like douche and refused to enter games, there's no way I can boo him. After all, he still dropped Artest.

Seeing Okur in the background of GG's pic, makes me wish we could have kept him right about now.
yea we gave up alot to keep Ben and Sheed since 2004, Unfortunately only Sheed and Tayshaun decided not to be overzealous about our success when contract time came.[smilie=sad3.gif]

wonder what CBill is thinking right about now.

Seeing Okur in the background of GG's pic, makes me wish we could have kept him right about now.
yea we gave up alot to keep Ben and Sheed since 2004, Unfortunately only Sheed and Tayshaun decided not to be overzealous about our success when contract time came.[smilie=sad3.gif]

wonder what CBill is thinking right about now.
impossible to tell. these guys lie too much. everything is all good until it comes up. If we dont do as well and dont look competive. I say he bolts for mega bucks(he'll get some crazy offers i'm guessing)

Seeing Okur in the background of GG's pic, makes me wish we could have kept him right about now.
yea we gave up alot to keep Ben and Sheed since 2004, Unfortunately only Sheed and Tayshaun decided not to be overzealous about our success when contract time came.[smilie=sad3.gif]

wonder what CBill is thinking right about now.
To be honest with you I dont think that Chauncey is the one that would be upset with him leaving. Rasheed is the one that really wanted Ben back. Chauncey didnt like the offense and wanted Mcdyess in more instead of ben due to bens inability to get anything done down low. I dont think losing Ben hurts that much...the team was starting to become Chaunceys anyways.

I dont think losing Ben hurts that much...the team was starting to become Chaunceys anyways.
unfortunately a chauncy team doesnt play defense for shit. much like him oddly enough.

i don't know what to think about this whole situation. i was up north over the weekend, enjoying BBQs and jet skiing, when i got a text message from my buddy...."Ben's gone".

on one hand, overpaying for Ben could have been detrimental for Detroit's future. imagine being a "not good enough" team in the East while being saddled with Ben's huge contract during the next 4 years. Ben's has his deficiencies (4 on 5 on offense, FTs) and now we can see if they really did hurt the team.

on the other hand, even an optimist like myself has a tough time selling that we can be an equally dangerous team without Ben.

optimistic bottom line to me: we develop a bench this season or we're done as a serious playoff team. if Flip thinks he can ride a starting core of starters + Nazr, like he did last season, we might as well rebuild. the ONLY way we're even remotely an NBA Finals team is if we're a team that's legitimately 8 deep.

Losing Ben is probably best for long term.

Ben doesnt fit the NBA anymore. The NBA doesnt like defensive minded teams. The NBA like slashers who can draw the foul and make their free throws, which can put more points on the board. The NBA like fast athletic teams like the SUNS. THe NBA wont need peopel like Ben, which is a shame.

Ben's getting older and 32. Declining but getting someone whos not better isnt really good for us either.

There's a few ways to look at this, but it will all be decided after the off season and during the season.

As much as I want to hate Ben Wallace for this, I can't quite paint him as the villain. A couple years ago when he had a player option he decided to stick out his contract at a juncture where he could've made a break for more cash. A massive gamble for him and a great bargain for the pistons at the time.

Ben is rich but he's no Warren Buffet--$10 million is still a lot of coin at his income bracket and not a difference to be dismissed as trivial. It sucks because it's lose-lose for me as a piston fan, I'd be no happier if detroit had matched. If there's anyone I hate coming out of this it's the pricks in Chicago that decided to overpay him. I hope they become the next Pacers.

Losing Ben is probably best for long term.

Ben doesnt fit the NBA anymore. The NBA doesnt like defensive minded teams. The NBA like slashers who can draw the foul and make their free throws, which can put more points on the board. The NBA like fast athletic teams like the SUNS. THe NBA wont need peopel like Ben, which is a shame.
i think thats a myth. the bulls upgraded in getting Ben for a reason. Ben is exactly what you need in todays NBA, an athletic big man. Unless you are Shaq, combining agility, strength, and defense is the key to being top notch at the center position. You cannot beat Dallas or phoenix if you can't defend. You're not going to outscore Dirk, you can't out pass nash, and we're never going to get the amount of calls wade and lebron get(not even half as much). Defense may be tougher to play, but its as required as ever. And we didnt even emphasize defense this year and still put up decent numbers on that end last year. I don't see why we should run away from being a defensive team. theres no light at the end of the offense first tunnel. not for us anyways. And in the end the two teams in the finals were emphasizing defense. Some feel Dallas's emphasis on defense is what got them over the hump. In fact it can be considered a reason they scored more on San Antonio. You get more stops and turnovers, you're gonna get more breaks to your already proven offense.

I agree that the NBA shows favortism to stars. But defensive stars too. How much did Ben get away with? how many fouls were allowed for him? how many flops did he draw going up for rebounds? I feel that went both ways. we were allowed to be more physical that most teams with wallace in there, are we still given that space w/o him? I'm not saying we're screwed w/o him. but i totally disagree with an offense only nba being what we are in. We are in a league of stars. though there arent as many, their are defensive stars too. artest and bowen get away with plenty and it helps their respective teams they play on. There's plenty of room to play defense in the NBA still, and because of that the bulls coveted Ben enough to throw 60 million at him. I dont really expect much of anything from nazr this year on defense. I'm hoping that maxiell and Dyess can keep the defensive ship afloat. But its not even a priority for our coach that we play defense. So i dont know how this season will play out.[smilie=sad3.gif]

I love Ben as much as the next Piston fan, which is what makes this so hard.

But if you remove the emotional side of this (watching him in the intros, the thought of him holding up his championship belt, the gong ringing after every block, him barking into his cupped hand, etc.) it's really not all that bad, IMO.

I would have much preferred Pryz to Nazr, but I still think we'll be fine, especially if we can land someone decent with the BAE (Rasual Butler, or a young low post player, etc.)

I still feel that we're on the edge of being elite.

Losing Ben is probably best for long term.

Ben doesnt fit the NBA anymore. The NBA doesnt like defensive minded teams. The NBA like slashers who can draw the foul and make their free throws, which can put more points on the board. The NBA like fast athletic teams like the SUNS. THe NBA wont need peopel like Ben, which is a shame.

Ben's getting older and 32. Declining but getting someone whos not better isnt really good for us either.

There's a few ways to look at this, but it will all be decided after the off season and during the season.

I was just reading an interesting article on yahoo that made a decent point. Who's to say these next two years were our best chances? If the NBA gets what it wants which is the Wade/Lebron show...in 4 years when they're in their prime..will we have a chance anyway? Regardless of the money we saved...

If there's anyone I hate coming out of this it's the pricks in Chicago that decided to overpay him. I hope they become the next Pacers.
i'm mad that we didnt plan better, i can remember as early as possibly 2005 offseason hearing that the bulls were going to throw a ton of cash at Ben. they have a bigger media market and more room to make those kind of plays. I dont know if we were too arrogant or just didnt flat out believe they would offer that much. but its a clusterfuck to hear about this coming a year early and not having no good counter action to it ready in wait.

i'm going to hold out on the "this is the new NBA" stuff until i see what happens this season on.

when we won the title in 04, supposedly we were setting the trend for the "new NBA". then the Spurs win the title and you could argue that defense still won titles. finally superstar Wade wins a title and now we're back to a superstar league. deep down, i honestly think we were good enough to win it all last season, but we hit a horrible funk at the worst possible time.

the only thing we can really do is put together the best team possible and play them in the most effective way possible. i do think Joe D is smart enough to see that.

I love Ben as much as the next Piston fan, which is what makes this so hard.

But if you remove the emotional side of this (watching him in the intros, the thought of him holding up his championship belt, the gong ringing after every block, him barking into his cupped hand, etc.) it's really not all that bad, IMO.

I would have much preferred Pryz to Nazr, but I still think we'll be fine, especially if we can land someone decent with the BAE (Rasual Butler, or a young low post player, etc.)

I still feel that we're on the edge of being elite.

Butler is good guy, but again, another chucker. I thought we were looking for a slasher?

I'm hoping that Amir is that slasher, maybe that is naive of me?

I've always like Butler even though he does like to chuck it, does that make me a hypocrite since I was at the forefront of the WTF Anti-Chucking movement all year? Maybe. At least he plays solid D, which is rare in most chuckerators.

I think Joe is looking for a shooter such as atkins, but I want a swingman if anything.

I guess we will not no the "new" nba until its played but I still think we can contend with the group of guys we have.

Chauncey Billups, Rip Hamilton, Tayshaun Prince, and Rasheed Wallace.

that's still a damn good core in my book.

i can't see that core being "obsolete" in any NBA.

Question:

Do we really still have Bird rights to Cato, so we could sign him to a 1yr deal and trade him and other considerations for something - whether it be JS's example of Al Harrington - or anyone else?

If so, then I still have hope.

If not - if we lost Ben for nothing - if we gave up our MLE for Nazr - if all we have is the LLE for a role player and this is the team we take into next year, as is with no cap space - then I have no hope for this team.

In that instance, the Ben Wallace move would cause me to blame Joe, Tom Wilson and Bill Davidson for being cheap fucking penny pinching businessmen who don't care about winning, and who DOUBLED my season ticket prices at the same time they massively cut payroll by letting Ben Wallace go.

In that instance, I would give up my season tickets for 2006-2007.

I'm not paying Bill Davidson double next year for half of this year's product.

I would have hope...Ben's numbers were going down plus I PERSONALLY think from the time I was around the team at the end of the season and after games in the playoffs...I got the vibe that it was Ben tearing the team apart with his bitching about not being involved in the offense

I believe we do have his Bird Rights, I mean there would have been no reason to renounce him as we were over the cap to begin with. This is my only remaining hope as well, as ridiculous as that sounds(depending on Kelvin Cato to save us). I wonder who, if anybody, is showing interest in him. Given he is a true center, you have to believe there will be a place for him in the NBA, for around $3M at least(though didn't he say he wanted a Jerome James deal at one point last year?). We just have to hope that whoever is interested doesn't have cap space or the MLE to use to sign him away for nothing.

Word is houston is looking for a center who can backup Yao considering Mutumbo isnt going to be a big role. But then again, who do we get from Houston?

Ki:

Won't some teams be interested in his salary coming off the books, if we sign him to a 1 yr deal at the MLE. Correct me if I'm wrong.. but they would not get the same cap relief if they signed him to a 1 yr deal at the MLE themselves, right???

If there's anyone I hate coming out of this it's the pricks in Chicago that decided to overpay him. I hope they become the next Pacers.
i'm mad that we didnt plan better, i can remember as early as possibly 2005 offseason hearing that the bulls were going to throw a ton of cash at Ben. they have a bigger media market and more room to make those kind of plays. I dont know if we were too arrogant or just didnt flat out believe they would offer that much. but its a clusterfuck to hear about this coming a year early and not having no good counter action to it ready in wait.

I agree, even though I have trouble coming up with specific options that would've put them in much better position. Was there a MLE big man much better than Dale Davis last off season? I can't remember. For better or worse they could've held on to Darko, with him and DD being some combination of starter/backup. At least then they'd have the MLE now to use elsewhere.

I flat out didn't believe anyone would offer Ben max money and still shocked it happened.

Can we do a sign and trade if Cato only gets a 1 year deal?

I thought it would have to be a McCaskill type situation, where he signs for 3 years but only the first 2 are guaranteed?

Or a Zelly situation, where the first season is guaranteed, but if the team picks up the option for season #2 then season #3 is guaranteed as well?

Either way we have the option of signing him and trading him to a team that wants to move a bad contract with a couple of seasons left.

We'd have to find a team that is worried about the luxury tax in the near future and has a player on or near MLE money that isn't really part of the rotation.

I flat out didn't believe anyone would offer Ben max money and still shocked it happened.
maybe Joe D is too. But i've seen nba offseasons too often overpay. I knew chicago was going max. I saw it as common knowledge. They are one of the big media markets and are willing to overpay someone if they think he can bring in a title. People overpay all day. bobby simmons did one year of work to improve his salary significantly. Okur held down plenty of time on the bench, didnt stop the jazz from throwing cash at him. he doesnt make that much less than sheed.

Now enter ben wallace and his value. He's a star, defensive star but star nonetheless. he easily becomes the face of the bulls and increases ticket sales. But i guess as obvious as it was no one could see this coming. [smilie=sad3.gif] you'll see worse next year, here's an early warning. some team may offer cbill close to kobe or wade money. it may not happen, but its nots that unlikely depending on who frees up money.

Pharoah pretty much covered it. We couldn't S&T him if he signed a one year deal, but we could sign him to a one year deal and then wait until the 2007 off-season signees are allowed to be traded.

There would be nobody on Houston unless you have any interest in Rafer Alston who could be available especially if Houston lands Mike James with their MLE.

Cato's contract would be an asset, even if we had no plans of actually playing him. We have basically no salary cap fodder to make trades happen right now.

Cato's contract would be an asset, even if we had no plans of actually playing him.

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/images/photos4.25/7424_256.jpg

I hear he's already fitted the Palace with a glass ceiling.

http://www.users.tsn.cc/gli/Zing.jpg

I hadn't seen this mentioned yet. Looks like we almost scored Drew Gooden for Ben in a S&T.

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=16880016&BRD=1698&PAG=461&dept_id=21848&rfi=6


The Cavaliers also might have attempted to acquire forward/center Ben Wallace in a sign-and-trade with the Pistons on Monday. Wallace ended up agreeing to a four-year, $60 million deal with Chicago. Presumably, restricted free agent Drew Gooden was included in the trade talk.

After Wallace agreed to a deal with the Bulls, Cavaliers general manager Danny Ferry also reportedly tried to sign forward/center Nazr Mohammed. It's not known whether Ferry offered the full midlevel exception. The 6-10, 250-pound Mohammed agreed to a four-year, $30 million deal with the Pistons on Tuesday night.

He averaged 6.2 points, 5.2 rebounds and 0.6 blocks with San Antonio last season.

Another player the Cavaliers had discussions about, center Joel Przybilla, accepted a five-year, $30 million contract from Portland on Tuesday.

wtf is up w/ making our division rivals stronger???

i know this doesn't come at a surprise, but Ben pretty much has been contradicting himself the past few days. on WDIV, he was on TV and when asked if the Pistons offered the same amount of money as the Bulls would he still be here, he said, "no doubt". then on Stony and Wojo today he was basically saying it wasn't about the money.

i know this doesn't come at a surprise, but Ben pretty much has been contradicting himself the past few days. on WDIV, he was on TV and when asked if the Pistons offered the same amount of money as the Bulls would he still be here, he said, "no doubt". then on Stony and Wojo today he was basically saying it wasn't about the money.
because he feels that the amount of money he's offered defines his stature and the respect a team has for him. not the most braniac way of thinking. but i hold no issue with that. I do hold issue with him not making it clear this was the type of ben we would deal with this offseason. and definately making it clear before we cleared some youth out for him.

i know this doesn't come at a surprise, but Ben pretty much has been contradicting himself the past few days. on WDIV, he was on TV and when asked if the Pistons offered the same amount of money as the Bulls would he still be here, he said, "no doubt". then on Stony and Wojo today he was basically saying it wasn't about the money. because he feels that the amount of money he's offered defines his stature and the respect a team has for him. not the most braniac way of thinking. but i hold no issue with that. I do hold issue with him not making it clear this was the type of ben we would deal with this offseason. and definately making it clear before we cleared some youth out for him.

if that's the case, Ben's ego is much larger than i had originally thought......i'm not faulting him for taking as much money as he can (hell, i would do the same thing), but if he genuinely felt disrespected, either he didn't have a solid understanding of situation here or his ego was too large for the team.

honestly, i think all the "he was offended by the offer" talk is BS. i think he was disrespected during the season and had pretty much made up his mind to leave. right now he's making excuses (i.e. it was the money or he felt slighted by the offer. both comments he contradicted later).

it's going to be really, really weird seeing Ben in a Bulls uni. [smilie=sayitaintso:

I do hold issue with him not making it clear this was the type of ben we would deal with this offseason. and definately making it clear before we cleared some youth out for him.

This is a valid point. I know Dumars probably didn't want to talk numbers because it could become a distraction(and would have given the off-season fallout), but they both dinked around the issue - Dumars saying he'd make a fair offer and Ben saying it wasn't about the money gave indications that there certainly was a deal to be made. Of course Dumars' fair offer and Ben's fair offer have proven to be two entirely different beasts. I know it will shock some here, but the Milicic trade is what really bothers me about this whole mess.

I know it will shock some here, but the Milicic trade is what really bothers me about this whole mess.
Quit playin'.[smilie=rofl.gif]

it's going to be really, really weird seeing Ben in a Bulls uni. [smilie=sayitaintso:
hey i've gotten used to it. i was a grant hill fan from day one of that alley oop he caught from Joe D(still got the gold special edition grant hill home jersey, teal road jersey, and his usa olympic jersey). So you can imagine how his departure threw me off. Before that, seeing laimbeer and zeke being forced to retire early wasn't all that pleasing either. All i know now is like Hill Ben didnt want to be here. No matter what way he spins it. That makes it pretty easy to boo him and not give a shit. As far as giving him cheers for the past? he got those while he was here and apparently they werent enough to kep him here. So no thanks on cheering him a second time around. I probally wont watch bulls games when plays much like i dont watch magic games when hill plays.

Whenever we play Ben & the Bulls (fuck!) I'd like to see us replace the red R on the white rebound t-shirts with pictures of Davidson's fucking face.

In fact, I'm referring to Ben's rebounds as "Davidsons" from now on.

Whenever we play Ben & the Bulls (fuck!) I'd like to see us replace the red R on the white rebound t-shirts with pictures of Davidson's fucking face.

In fact, I'm referring to Ben's rebounds as "Davidsons" from now on.

HAHA

Does anybody have or have you seen a photoshopped pic of Ben in a Bulls uni yet?

Ben knew he was leaving 3 months ago, when he sold his house and starting building one in Chicago.

Does anybody have or have you seen a photoshopped pic of Ben in a Bulls uni yet?

http://WTFDetroit.com

it's going to be really, really weird seeing Ben in a Bulls uni. [smilie=sayitaintso: hey i've gotten used to it. i was a grant hill fan from day one of that alley oop he caught from Joe D(still got the gold special edition grant hill home jersey, teal road jersey, and his usa olympic jersey). So you can imagine how his departure threw me off. Before that, seeing laimbeer and zeke being forced to retire early wasn't all that pleasing either. All i know now is like Hill Ben didnt want to be here. No matter what way he spins it. That makes it pretty easy to boo him and not give a shit. As far as giving him cheers for the past? he got those while he was here and apparently they werent enough to kep him here. So no thanks on cheering him a second time around. I probally wont watch bulls games when plays much like i dont watch magic games when hill plays.

So you've seen pretty much every game the last 6 seasons then?

So you've seen pretty much every game the last 6 seasons then?
every available pistons game since '87. if you're sarcastically talking bout the whole nba, no. but if the magic were on tv, i probally passed on that game. and for the 2 seasons i had nba league pass i still didnt watch any of the magic's games unless they played detroit.

I was ragging on Hill's injury(ies).

I was ragging on Hill's injury(ies).
i woke up only an hour ago. i shoulda got the point there from the jump.[smilie=paca.gif] [smilie=dissed.gif]

There's a video of Ben on Quite Frankly w/SAS on ESPN's NBA page here: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/index?&lpos=globalnav&lid=gn_NBA_NBA

good find. ben seems to hint that flip was a big reason why he left.

i dont think you can underrestimate ben's ego, here. ben never got the silver spoon treatment. he always had to earn everything he got. so i can kind of relate. not only did he want the money, but he wanted the respect that getting a big deal garners. flip's system and coaching was devaluing ben, chicago will let him be a star again.

basically left because of Flip and the criticism he got for having issues with him(him and flip are too damn sensitive, i miss hardcore LB). Seems he didnt like where the team was going with Flip. Couple that with 60 million dollars vs 46 million, and its a no brainer for him. I also dislike our new philosophies of more offense, less defense. but I still think Joe D and Ben coulda worked it out and i would have a little more respect for Ben if he said he was gone from the jump(which he was, but decided not to tell dumars). you can't speak up about the coach then go silent(and maybe even lie) when the subject of your future with the team comes up. That was kinda pussy on his part.

Either way, i've heard enough i think. Almost time to just move on to whose next. I do think that he woulda signed with us regardless of the money if Flip wasnt coach. Unfortunately he wanted extra money in exchange for tolerating Flip. i feel Joe on not paying him more, but i feel him on not wanting to play for Flip. Why should he honestly? with that said it wasnt a problem they couldn't have worked out and i dislike that they didnt even try.

Flip probally reminded him of that celtic coach who gave him a hard time and told him he should give up because of his lack of offense.

well, since I've been gone camping and just now got here to chime in...it's probably all been said.

But, this basically comes down to Ben feeling Chicago's style of play was better suited to him than our's. I don't totally disagree. We are no longer the grind it out defensive club we were under Prick and LB. Ben's value had gone down here considaribly (partially from his own shooting woes and partially because our style of play). He's still a beast on the defensive end, but for how long? I think he's got a couple more years of dominant defense left before he's nothing more than Zo is now (bad offense with decent rebounding and some weak side shot blocking), minus his height. Ben's legs can't last forever, especially banging with Shaq and big Z every year in the playoffs. I don't fault Joe for not giving him a ton of money. If we had beaten the Spurs and the Heat, I might think differently. But we were declining as a team and Ben isn't getting any younger.

I don't really blame Ben either. At first I was mad because he always talked about stability and it not being about the money. I thought he went back on his word. But in reality, he'll have more stability there, where they are more focused on defense and gritty play (Nocionni, Duhon, Hinrich, etc) than here. Who can fault the guy for going where his skills can best be used. Would you expect Nash to sign with Indiana and play a grind it out style? No.

So, I'll just get over it and figure out how we are going to get back to winning titles. I don't think it's impossible, but we are going to need Maxiel and Delfino to grow up fast. We'll also need Sheed to realize that he's going to have to carry us inside. And we also need Joe to make good on that Orlando pick (via trade or in the draft) to ensure Billups, Prince and RIP will continue to see more finals games in thier careers.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=jackson/060705


Christmas in July?

By Scoop Jackson
Page 2

CHICAGO -- For some reason, the day felt different.

Not that the fourth day of the year's seventh month was supposed to feel like anything but another birthday for states united, but in this city -- the birth nation's third-largest -- there was a different feel. Like something was about to be born.

Bulls land Ben Wallace

That's how the lead headline of the Chicago Sun-Times read on Independence Day, with a photo of the four-time Defensive Player of the Year on the right. It was beginning to feel a lot like Christmas. On the same day Benny the Bull (the team mascot -- and the moniker given to Wallace on the back of the Sun-Times) was arrested at the annual Taste of Chicago culinary festival, Ben Wallace agreed to a four-year, $60 million offer from the Bulls.

All of a sudden, a shift in the basketball landscape could be felt inside the city. Like a change was gonna come. Like Shaq won't have his best games of the playoffs against us anymore.

Early-morning phone calls replaced the usual alarm clocks of fireworks. The smell of slabs, tips and links on the Weber were delayed by conversations that all began with, "Did you hear what the Bulls did?"

For the first time since -- y'all know the day -- He left, a sense of something beyond first-round playoff exits floated through backyards and alleys, basements and front porches. All of a sudden, a shift in the basketball landscape was all everyone was talking about inside the city.

"We 'bout to do this!!!" could be heard from the West Side to the Wild 100s. Because the man who rebuilt one dynasty was about to resurrect another. From MI to Chi. And by the time the barbecues were over, everyone had circled July 12 on their calendars -- the day Ben Wallace officially returns Chicago to its rightful place in this basketball universe.

Brandon Routh ain't got nothin' on what Ben Wallace is about to return to the city.

The problem? He can't do this alone.
---------
"I've been hearing a lot of stuff. It really doesn't bother me. I'm a Chicago Bull. As of right now, my focus is on getting better and working out this summer. My thing is regardless of what happens, I'm going to be an All-Star next year. I realize that I had a tough year last year. I'm not going to allow that to happen again in my career. If I get traded, I'll be somewhere else with the same plan." -- Tyson Chandler (Chicago Tribune; July 4, 2006)

Flavor Flav's most poignant proverb seems so appropriate right about now … the day after: You can't stop reality from being real.

The reality that we in Chicago must wake up to now is that unless the Bulls replace Tyson Chandler with someone who can score in the post, the Ben Wallace deal is just an extraordinary waste of money.

Yes, it would be lovely to have Wallace in white, trimmed in red and black in Tyson's old uniform (No. 3), landlording the lane, but without someone in the four-spot putting the ball in the hole at a 15- to 18-ppg clip, the offer the Bulls just gave Wallace would be equivalent to Warren Buffett giving his billions to the James and Kristin Dolan Foundation instead of Bill and Melinda's.


Chandler disappeared in the playoffs for the Bulls (1.8 points per game).

Putting Wallace and his career 6.6 points per game (4.7 in the playoffs this year) at center alongside Chandler's career 7.1 ppg (and just 1.8 in the playoffs) is not the tandem that's going to make the Heat, Cavs, Pistons (especially since they immediately replaced Wallace with Nazr Mohammed), Wizards, Nets or any other team the Bulls might face in May feel shook. It's not what's going to get the Bulls past that first round.

And when this point came up in conversations at barbecues around the city, the feeling of Christmas began to disappear as if the city were Whoville.

"It's a waste of cap money unless they trade Tyson," Ronald "Snooky" Smith said while flipping ribs on his grill. "It don't make any sense."

"[The Bulls] are putting too much pressure on them three to score if they don't replace Tyson with someone," Charlie Brown Waites said. "[Kirk] Hinrich, [Ben ]Gordon and [Andres] Nocioni can't score 90 a game between them all season long."

His cousin Sammy Morris chipped in, "Yeah, Ben was able to do what he did in Detroit because he had scoring coming from all four positions. With Tyson at the four, that cuts it down to three."

And this is what Christmas feels like in July.

When an All-Star center decides to join a team that many have said is "one player away" from playing in the NBA Finals, reality sets in and reminds an entire city that one player might not be enough. That regardless how great this gift of Ben Wallace is, he's only part of the answer to the riddle: Why did the afro'd man cross I-94?

He crossed it to find promise land on a land that was once promised. He crossed it because of the promise he saw in the team he agreed to sign with and in the promise it made him that it wasn't finished making moves. He crossed it because of the guy he heard the team was going to try to lure to play with him.

He crossed it because the $2.5 million left under the salary cap after he signs is not what's going to bring the Bulls that "other" player. But the $50 million left on Chandler's six-year contract might.

Cue music to "The Sting."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"As part of the deal, the Bulls are believed to have promised to continue their pursuit of Minnesota Timberwolves star Kevin Garnett, who could be the final piece to the championship puzzle." -- The Daily Southtown


Keep dreaming, Bulls fans: You won't be seeing KG in Chicago.

Promised.

Here's how it's going down: A promise was made. One promise to two people.

To Wallace: Ben, you come over here, we'll get K.G. to ball alongside of you.

To Garnett: K.G., we're going to get Ben Wallace. Let's make this happen.

Cue Yung Joc.

Without losing the core of their team and transferring Chandler's contract -- along with, say, Luol Deng and No. 4 draft pick Tyrus Thomas and an extra million dollars for good faith (and good luck!) -- the Bulls have an almost salary-cap exempt presentation they will submit to the Timberwolves with the pitch of: "You don't want to lose K.G. next year and get nothing in return the way the Pistons just did with Ben Wallace. Do you?"

McHale flinches.

Next thing we know, the city's prodigal prodigy is back. Playing ball only a few miles away from where he started -- Farragut High School to Minnesota and back. Like Gabe Kotter. Sort of.

That's the plan.

And that's why, in Chi, we feel that the plan will work. That if played correctly, GM John Paxson and principal owner Jerry Reinsdorf can pull off some Bulls--- that would make Penn and Teller proud.

Because in the end, that's all it is. Which is why we fall for it. In the case of reality being real, we know there's no way in Dusty Baker's hell Kevin Garnett is going to play for the Bulls next season. We know the P.J. Brown/J.R. Smith for Chandler deal with the Hornets is as good as it's going to get.

We know the Troy Murphy or Carlos Boozer for Chandler deal is as gooder as it's going to get.

We know the reality is: This -- landing Ben Wallace -- is Christmas.

Which is why from now on in the city Kanye claims is "so Chi that we bashful," the Fourth of July forever will be known as the day Ben Wallace landed on us. The day of independence when the city got the one player it needed to get us back to the top, to the the pinnacle, where the White Sox rest.

It's just too bad the promise won't come true and the "other" player the team promised Ben won't ever be in a Bulls uniform.

Ben Wallace is a bitch! Never thought I'd say that.

KStat do you remember when I was saying that Ben kind of dissed FS at the DPOY ceremony? Not sure if I posted it or it was in the game chat but it looks like what I saw might have been correct. You thought I was overstating what I saw. I think Ben leaving has been coming for a while now.

wow, i'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but Mitch Albom is reporting:


In the end, it wasn't about going to work. It was about getting paid. And again, the only thing bothersome is that Wallace gave signals that it wasn't. He told me that being the highest-paid guy wasn't the only thing that mattered. Yet when the Pistons offered him around $12 million a year for four years -- the fattest salary ever offered a Detroit basketball player -- he asked for more. WAY more.

According to a person in the negotiations, Wallace sought $20 million a season. If so, Ben was right when he said he didn't have to be the highest-paid Piston. He wanted to lead the league!

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060713/SPORTS03/607130365/1051

DAMN!

I know he was under-paid for a long time but he ain't Michael fucking Jordan.

DAMN!

$20,000,000?

DAMN!

Dude must have lost his fucking mind

He would be making 3 more mill a year than Kobe. What a bitch. Kobe>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ben

no kidding. when i read that i took it as:

a). Ben was seriously dillusional
b). Ben made an offer that he knew Joe D couldn't do, because he made up his mind to leave
c). the Pistons are planting these stories to make Ben look like the bad guy.

In the end, I shouldn't be disappointed that Ben went for the green.

I should be disappointed that I ever thought he wouldn't.


Sad but true

its worth noting that overly high bids are used as starting points in negotiations. I'm sure there are other players who started out negotiations with ridiculously high numbers, knowing they wouldn't get them, they're just not reported.

ben asked for 20, big deal (that was probably tellem's idea, anyway). its just a negotiation ploy.

actually, the funny thing i got out of the story was that the little fella decided to write an article about integrity. i guess enough time has passed since it was made known that he makes things up in his stories, and he can again point the finger. what a hypocrite. that article sucked.

I disagree - the article pretty much explained my exact opinion.

On a semi-related note: what's up with the hatred for Mitch. He made one mistake and people have never forgiven him for it? That seems a little petty to me.

he didnt make one mistake--he got caught once.

and the hatred towards mitch isnt over the mistake, i just really find his writing pompous and pretentious. and i really dont like how he just seems to float around towards whatever is the most popular issue of the day... makes him seem like a johny come lately (i know, its routine for the top writer to cover the hot teams, whatever).

a good example of why not to like mitch was his chastising detroit when everyone was bitching about the stones being selected for the half time show. he acted like he was better than everyone in detroit in that story.

Mitch is just a poor man's Bob Costas, IMO.

7 People You Meet in Heaven = "going for the green"

Fuck off Alf.

alsoIdidn'treadthearticle

mitch would love to be a poor man's bob costas. bill simmons (someone i used to hate but now like) would call mitch a homeless man's bob costas. costas, on the other hand is great. i wish he did more.

Costas is someone I respect. He worked his ass up from the ABA doing Spirits' games that maybe 5 people listened to. He does a damn good job on Inside the NFL every year.

I miss the days when he did the NBA playoffs for NBC.

As for Ben Wallace, can we just let this die? Nobody is going to change his opinion on this, it's totally set in stone.

-certain people are going to hate the pistons for not paying ben what he wanted.

-certain people are going to hate ben for leaving.

-certain people will hate both parties equally, or not blame anyone.

The argument have been made 500 times over and over again. Nobody is going to change his mind, just let it go.

Bulls home page

http://www.nba.com/bulls/wallace_intro.html

Video of the presser available if you want to torture yourself

http://www.nba.com/bulls/index_main.html

could have gone a few months without seeing that. thanks glenn.

Favorite teams = Pistons, Clippers, Bulls (bye bye Grizzlies! :) )

I'm still confused as to how to feel about this. I can't make myself hate Ben, despite the fact he's lacing them up for the Bulls now.



You broke my heart, Frodo. [smilie=sayitaintso:

It still doesn't seem real from some reason.

It was interesting to hear that his contract is "front loaded" to help the Bulls re-sign some of their younger players in future years.

I'm still confused as to how to feel about this. I can't make myself hate Ben, despite the fact he's lacing them up for the Bulls now.



You broke my heart, Frodo. [smilie=sayitaintso:


http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Film/Pix/gallery/2001/10/17/rings01.jpg

"What did i do, Godfather?!?!"

lol.

by the way, mccosky said on wdfn last night that the pistons wouldnt go over the tax even to get lebron james. and that they dont want to go over the tax, even just a little, because that would lead to the team becoming the knicks.