i know theres a ben's future thread, but i think this would be a good thread to discuss the piston's future sans ben wallace.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060625/SPORTS03/606250663/1051/

two things caught my eye in this article. one, ben can sign for up to ~11 million this year without hitting the tax. but next year? and how do we get better if the mle is no longer in play?

and:

"Regardless, people close to the team say rumors that they've grown sick of Wallace's act are baseless."

what rumors? i've never heard that the pistons are sick of him. sounds like the team continuing its media attack against ben wallace.

so, whats the plan b? hard to imagine us contending next year if there is no sign and trade...

Well for Ben, he has alot of choices. hard to imagine teams are going to offer him the max. The Bulls obviously or some team with alot of cap space like the Bobcats could get him...with a S&T of course.

If we let Ben as a URFA and with no S&T I dont see us screwed but its going to be even harder to make the Finals, let alone the ECF.

yeah it would suck bigtime because as that article points out, we will NOT have cap room if we lose him with no compensation; we're pretty much up against the cap already (but not the threshold thing) so if he walks and we get nothing, we get NOTHING!

we will lose him and not be able to use anything except our MLE and veteran's exception or whatever.

so i believe if we lose him and aren't able to S & T him (which would be very difficult to do to begin with) then we're likely to see at least one big trade from joe afterwards IMO. (trading sheed....?)

With trading Sheed, I think well get scraps and an expiring contract or something which wont let us be a huge threat in the league. Sheeds best destination was the Knicks but now I dont know where.

We just need to pull of that S&T with Ben.

if ben walks away, i cant imagine a realistic plan b (darko would have been good!). i dont want to be sacramento east. when its over, admit it and blow it up.

i hope bill davidson sells the team.

If Ben just walks with no S&T I think we need to start a semi-rebuild. I would try to move Chauncey and Sheed. Chauncey should be able to bring us something good with his low salary and high value right now. Try to get a young up and comer and a pick or two. IMO it would be stupid to keep him, and then get into the same situation with him next offseason as we are in with Ben right now (Where he could just walk). Then move Sheed for whatever we can. Young talent would be nice, but I just wouldn't want to see what he's like in that situation.

We've got 4 picks in next years draft (a deep one). It doesn't have to be full-blown rebuild, but we can keep around some of the younger vets (Rip and Tayshaun), and build with young players around them. I would rather see a young, scrappy, energetic team battle for a playoff spot than watch veterans who seem to be content in all-star games, paychecks, and mediocre seasons anyday. Hopefully we won't have to come to that, but if Ben leaves I don't see what else could happen.

Blowing up the team that posted the best record in the league would be insanity regardless of what happens with Ben. Plan B is you find the best big you can to plug the hole and bring back what is still a very talented team.

Blowing up the team that posted the best record in the league would be insanity regardless of what happens with Ben. Plan B is you find the best big you can to plug the hole and bring back what is still a very talented team.
I would rather see them rebuild than try to continue with a semi-decent team that wont get anywhere*

*see Philly

If we lose Ben for nothing heres our situation

DD/ dice
Sheed /Dice/ Max
Tay/ Delfino/ Amir
Rip/ Mo
Billups/Delk , hunter?

Looks better than the Sixers but it really wont get us anywhere. Our MLE for a center...wait are tehre even centers willing to take the MLE? Nazr, most likely not. Joel Przybilla wants alot more. Of course there is a draft but thats next year.

We need to S&T Ben for another big!!!

Scrapping Billups may or may not be smart. he could walk but I dont see it happening as situations are different.

Looks better than the Sixers but it really wont get us anywhere.
Thats what Im saying - the sixers are just mediocre and look like they will continue to stay that way unless they do a mass rebuild. I would rather see us do a mass rebuild than sit at or around 50% for the next 5 seasons

If Ben doesnt sign, it wouldnt hurt to look at Magloire. A possible trade involving Magloire, Mo Williams for Sheed might work. We would struggle at PF unless Max can really come into his own (also relies on McDyess being able to play an entire season) but it would give us a decent centre and a good scoring pg off the bench. It also helps Bucks a lot since theyre looking for a good PF. (We might be able to coax them into taking Mo Evans as well)

Scrapping Billups may or may not be smart. he could walk but I dont see it happening as situations are different.

Yea, but can you honestly say you'd want to ink him to a new huge contract at his age if we're heading toward a rebuild?

Who said anything about a rebuild?

I just hope Billups doesnt demand anything big...which is doubtful. Hey hes still in his prime and he's making an effort on the court,

i'd lose a whole bunch of respect for Ben if he walked without allowing the Pistons to sign and trade. that's pretty much an "F-U" towards the Pistons organization from Ben. as much as we've benefitted from him, Ben has become who he is because of the Pistons, too.

regardless, i don't see that happening. Ben's gripes are with Flip's coaching, not Joe D or Mr. D.

I just hope Billups doesnt demand anything big...,

Riiiiight. He'll ask max, likely get offers if he repeats this years performance.

IF Ben walks and there is no sign and trade you have to make a choice.

IMO without Ben we're still a playoff team, but no way can we win the title.

Either we're content to contend and not win (Hi, Pacer fans) or we blow the whole thing up and start again.

Dice should go, so Maxiell can play.

Sheed should go, cause his contract is too long if we're rebuilding.

And Billups should probably go too, since I doubt he wants to hang around while we rebuild.

And if Rip has a problem with it then deal him too.

It wouldn't be that hard to deal most of those guys - Sheed is the only "problem child" on the team and I'm sure NY would take him for Jalen Rose and both their firsts in this Draft.

Well I think if Ben does in fact leave that is pretty damning evidence that something is seriously wrong in the lockeroom so it may in fact have to be "blown up".

He's not just going to leave for a change of pace or a few more touches, IMO.

Of course, it would be up to Joe to figure out what pieces are salvagable and who has to go.

Who said anything about a rebuild?

I just hope Billups doesnt demand anything big...which is doubtful. Hey hes still in his prime and he's making an effort on the court,

Every team has to rebuild eventually. That is the reality of the situation. If Ben leaves, and we get nothing in return, what makes you think we can contend? We didn't even have what it takes this year. Nearly got taken out by a team that hadn't made the playoffs in years. We're gonna lose an all-star/DPOY for nothing, and actually get better? That is the goal isn't it? A title? If we're not going to compete for titles, what is the point in locking into a guy who will be 31 years old? I don't think it's going to work.

And yes, it's extremely doubtful that Chauncey asks for anything less than a ridiculous amount of money. He was in the top 5 in MVP voting this year. I would be shocked if he didn't want the max.

according to insidehoops salary info:

06-07:
Sheed 11,400,000
RIP 8,857,143
Billups 6,364,400
McDyess 5,883,600
Davis 3,634,615
Prince 7,933,884
Evans 1,620,000
Delfino 1,037,280
Maxiell 973,440
Amir 664,209
---------------------
total 48.368.571

now add 12 a year for Ben, 5 a year for the MLE guy plus some for minimum players
-> about 67 mil

07-08:
Sheed 12,540,000
RIP 9,662,338
McDyess 6,373,900
Prince 8,766,942
Evans 1,740,000
Delfino 1,868,141
Maxiell 1,041,360
Ben 12,000,000
MLE-guy 5,500,000
---------------------
total 59.492.681
+ Chauncey 11 a year and some rooks and minimum players 3-4
= well over 70 mil for the next couple of years
i can't imagine that will happen, and it might not be smart to spend that kind of money without investing into a "NBA superstar" or 2 in todays NBA...

about a plan B? i have no idea...i just think we cant pay Ben and Sheed that kind of money and expect the Pistons to improve...

Thats a cool idea that makes sense for both teams, except there is a rumor for trading kmart to the wolves which would leave a hole in their 4 position

I like it Kilo.

So far, Kilo takes the cake for the best plan B IMO. Nene isn't all that great, but getting another first would be nice.

However, there's still the Bonzi-Sheed thing to deal with, and losing your top scorer for the last three years is tough to handle.

Whoa, a sniper post by Kilo.

And a good one too.

R.I.P.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005MJY0.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

What happens if we can't sign Bonzi with the MLF?

I'd rather trade Sheed to NY for Jalen, Frye and #20 (Shannon Brown?) and leave Nene and his injury problems for someone else.

Jalen comes off the books after the season with Davis.

That means we can pay big $$$ to Billups and probably avoid the luxury tax since the Orlando pick will bring a nice big to come off the bench.

Billups and Brown at PG (with Acker for depth)
Rip and Delfino at SG (with Acker for depth)
Prince and Amir at SF
Dice and Frye (with Maxiell and probably Amir for depth)
Ben and Frye (with the Orlando pick for depth)

Throw in our pick and we're doing well.

This doesn't take into account who we got with the MLE this off-season, either. Chances are we wouldn't need to use it if we did that trade, unless we couldn't get a decent PG or SF at #20.

What happens if we can't sign Bonzi with the MLF?

I think it'd be a critical blow to the cause.

http://www.isomedia.com/homes/harpo/gallery/9600/images/mlf-s.jpg

What happens if we can't sign Bonzi with the MLF?

I'd rather trade Sheed to NY for Jalen, Frye and #20 (Shannon Brown?) and leave Nene and his injury problems for someone else.


lol, I was thinking "MILF"

Anyhoo, the last guard that we drafted from MSU in the 1st round turned out pretty well, so why not?

Um, he who shall not be mentioned did not have the ability Brown has.

And a typo like that might get some excited, but it's just a typo.

http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/7113/planb.jpg

What happens if we can't sign Bonzi with the MLF?

I'd rather trade Sheed to NY for Jalen, Frye and #20 (Shannon Brown?) and leave Nene and his injury problems for someone else.


lol, I was thinking "MILF"

Anyhoo, the last guard that we drafted from MSU in the 1st round turned out pretty well, so why not?

But every other MSU draftee has done at least as well as expected, hell Anderson and Bell have performed well and Bell was stuck in Europe, and Anderson was a UDFA.

That Irvin Johnson guy did alright as well. Of course none of those dudes were drafted by the Pistons.

Also, can anyone think of a better nickname that also serves as a pick-up line than "Magic" Johnson? Maybe "Half Man-Half Amazing".

Also, can anyone think of a better nickname that also serves as a pick-up line than "Magic" Johnson? Maybe "Half Man-Half Amazing".

"The Big Unit"

Basketball Glenn, all those MLB nicks are homo-erotic and you know it.

Basketball Glenn, all those MLB nicks are homo-erotic and you know it.

Fool = "The Small Unit"

(Sorry, this post has Terrordome written all over it)

Basketball Glenn, all those MLB nicks are homo-erotic and you know it.

Fool = "The Small Unit"

(Sorry, this post has Terrordome written all over it)

HAHAHAHA.

*cough cough* continue

The Rocket
Nasty Nate
Big Pappi
Big Red
A-Rod
"Pudge"

The list goes on and on.

Nuke Laloosh