You only have to find 7 teams worse than they are in the weak-ass East.

Can they do it?

Let's get this shit documented.

The east will probably be a better conference than the west next year.

THe golden state warriors wer eunbeatable at the end of 2005 once they got baron, and look at how they did in 2006.

Don't buy season-ending runs from lottery teams.

I don't think so, they still don't have that one leader to get them there, too young.

I don't see how anyone can be sure Orlando will make the playoffs next season. The East is just wide open IMO.

For the record:

I think they miss the playoffs.

I think how the magic will do depends on G. Hill. I know that sounds crazy but it isn't, because I don't mean if he is healthy or not. What I mean is if Orl can go into the season with the mindset or reality that Grant is gone it will lift a huge burden from the organization. I think the mindset with Orl has been too focused on Grant, and it isn't until Hill is said to be out for the year that the team is able to focus.

I for one don't think Orlando is a playoff team, I think Det, Miami, Nj, Cleveland Washington and Chicago are locks to be in the playoffs, Indy and Mil will fight it out for the last two spots with darkhorses being NY and TO trying to stay in the playoff mix. Boston could also be improved and depending on what happens in Philly and CHA I think they are still a head of ORl.

I don't put a lot of stock in late season runs by bad teams, and have a hard time seeing the Saavy vet at 20 Howard being able to reel in the youth and contract year players to turn them into a playoff team.

I don't see how anyone can be sure Orlando will make the playoffs next season. The East is just wide open IMO.

Which would make the opposite true as well.

I don't think anybody is saying they are "sure" about anything, unless I missed something.

Cant say yet. If there were to be no signifcent changes in the Eastern conference, I say yes.

Dwight howard wont get 20-15 but i think he could get around 15-13. His reach is fucking high but he doesnt box out which could eventuially turn into a problem.

Who knows, darko might develop along side Dwight.

nelsons very young but is eventually going to prosper into a fine guard.

Hedo is a solid forward I guess. No where near all star material but he can get the job done.

Dont forget, they finished the 2nd half of the season STRONG.

I agree with Cross on a few things.

Darko might develop.

Nelson's eventually going to prosper.

Hedo is solid I guess.

But I voted no.

A new sharpshooter in town for Orlando: JJ. How does this impact them? I think JJ will thrive in an environment with two good bigs (Howard, Darko). I know some of you will say that Darko isn't good, but I think he is. That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it. I think JJ will probably find a way to get some nice open looks. I also look for him to improve his passing skills.

And for the record, I think the Magic can probably steal the 8th seed.

The Draft did not change my mind one bit.

they have a young tandem of bigs in Dwight and Darko. Nelson should be decent as well.

but like JS mentioned above, i think Grant Hill is the key. without him, they are just Turkoglu, Stevenson, Reddick, and Dooling.....not very awe insipiring. i still think a healthy Hill at this point in his career can be a 15/5 guy and that's enough to make the Magic flirt w/ the playoffs. but of course, Hill's health is flaky at very best, so if i had to put money on it, i'd vote no.

The Syndicate did not all vote for the same result!

Imagine that!

they may have wasted 2 consecutive lottery picks on guys who won't play for them. Lets see how this back thing works out.

A little season preview.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/basketball/magic/orl-magic2406sep24,0,6678065.story?coll=orl-magic


Magic preseason primer: Is it soup yet?
Magic hope they have right ingredients for playoff run

Brian Schmitz
Sentinel Staff Writer

September 24, 2006

They are still missing a few ingredients, but the Orlando Magic believe they are cooking up an appetizing pot of potential this season. "I think we're a playoff team," forward Grant Hill said.

Orlando fans haven't cheered for one since 2003. Last season the Magic missed the playoffs for the third consecutive season after posting a 36-46 record -- the same record they put together the previous year. But this time, it felt different.

After making two trades at midseason and reconfiguring this young team on the fly, the Magic won 16 of their final 22 games. Fans -- and the rest of the league -- took notice.

The Magic, who open training camp on Oct. 3 in Jacksonville, are embracing the expectations. "This group of guys will be playing with the pressure of expectations," Coach Brian Hill said. "That's part of the growth process that a team goes through."

Orlando's season largely will be determined by the growth of youngsters Dwight Howard, 20; Jameer Nelson, 24; and Darko Milicic, 21. Nelson's midseason foot injury likely cost the Magic a playoff spot: They were 5-15 in the games he missed.

Health is always a concern, particularly when the roll call includes veteran Grant Hill. Entering the final year of his contract, he is recovering from a sports hernia injury. Hill will be restricted by the team in camp, as will rookie J.J. Redick, who spent the summer rehabbing a herniated disk in his back.

Orlando returns its core players except starting shooting guard DeShawn Stevenson, who jumped to the Washington Wizards. The Magic signed Keith Bogans to help replace Stevenson and drafted Redick. Brian Hill will demand more improvement on the defensive end and fewer turnovers. And the Magic will have to learn to win on the road -- just another of the story lines to follow in their chase for an elusive playoff spot.

Can Howard dominate?
That is the question. The road to the playoffs for the Magic becomes infinitely easier if he can.

Beginning his third season since making the leap from a tiny private high school, Howard finished second in the NBA in rebounding (12.5 per game) and averaged 15.8 points last season. And he has yet to develop a pet move to become a consistent scoring threat and deliverer of easy baskets.

He might make a bigger impact at center if he concentrated solely on defense and rebounding. Said Brian Hill, "In a nutshell, that's obviously where he can make a huge contribution."

Fearing Howard would pick up quick fouls, the Magic often turned to veteran Tony Battie to defend the best big men. "Dwight is still learning, still getting better," Hill said. "Dwight had a vastly improved year from his rookie year, and I think he can make that type of improvement again."

Mystery man Milicic
He had to leave Detroit and the boo-birds behind to prove it, but the 7-foot Milicic finally began validating the Pistons' controversial decision to draft him with the No. 2 pick in 2003. Languishing on the bench in Motown, he contributed immediately in Orlando.

Playing 20 minutes per game, he averaged 7.6 points, 4.1 rebounds and 2.07 blocks in 30 games.

Now the question is whether Milicic can perform over a full season. He still remains an X-factor. "I think that's safe to say," Hill said. "We love what Darko gave us last year, but that doesn't mean he's arrived as an NBA player. There's so many more challenges for him. Now can you do it for 82 games?"

Criticized for his work ethic in Detroit, Milicic has motivation to displace Battie at power forward: He will be playing for a long-term contract.

Grant's last hurrah -- or hurdle?
Six summers ago, Grant Hill stepped off a private plane on crutches and hobbled into the Magic's life as a prize free-agent catch from Detroit. The image forever would haunt the franchise.

Six surgeries and just 135 games played later, Hill, nearly 34, enters the last year of his mammoth contract the way he started it: recovering from injury. This time, it was a sports hernia that limited him to 21 games last season. Hill, who endured five operations on his left ankle since 2000, says he "feels really good."

The Magic are hoping Hill can reprise his 2004-05 comeback, when he played 67 games. Yet Brian Hill couches many of his comments with the phrase, "If Grant is healthy . . . "

Said Grant, "I want to walk off after the last game, hopefully in The Finals, healthy, with my jersey on."

Meaningful . . . or a mirage?
How much stock should be put in the Magic's 16-6 closing run last season? Was it fool's gold or was it an indication that something special is brewing?

The Golden State Warriors closed the 2003-04 season winning 12 of 17 games to finish 37-45, but there was no carryover effect. The Warriors won three fewer games the next season.

"I told the team we made what I call an innocent climb at the end of the year," Brian Hill said. "You can look at it positively, like your team came together. And yet other people say teams were taking you lightly or they were getting ready for the playoffs and you were playing it like it was a playoff game.

"I look at that stretch as the start of something of the process, really, of building this team into a playoff-caliber team."

The Magic were 20-40 before making their run. With a healthy Nelson, they beat playoff-bound teams such as Chicago, Dallas, Miami and San Antonio.

Road grade
The Magic turned back the clock last season to their woeful expansion era, winning just 10 games on the road. It was the fewest road victories since the 1991-92 club posted eight road wins.

To reach the playoffs, the Magic likely will have to get tougher and find at least 15 victories on the road.

"No question about that," Brian Hill said. "One of the most significant stats is your ability to win on the road. That's another reason why the defensive side is so important. It's usually the better defensive teams that have the better road records."

In Orlando's finishing kick, it won at Philadelphia, Chicago, Dallas and San Antonio. "Wins like that go a long way to helping you mentally," Hill said.

Who's the 2?
Grant Hill, ideally. Maybe Brian Hill is dreaming, given Grant's medical history, but the plan is to move him to shooting guard to replace Stevenson.

Grant would surrender his small-forward spot to Hedo Turkoglu, and the two would start together. "If Grant is healthy, I can envision him playing at that spot," Brian Hill said.

Stevenson might not have been an all-star, but he defended the other team's best guard each night. Not exactly known as a hard-nosed team, the Magic lose his trademark toughness.

"Somebody has to fill that void. I think we have people who can do it, but you have to embrace that challenge," Brian Hill said. "There's going to be a lot of experimenting at that position."

The coach will fill the position by committee if Grant Hill can't assume it, turning to Bogans, veteran Keyon Dooling and Redick.

He managed to impress
Otis Smith will begin his first season as general manager, but he already is ahead of the curve.

Smith, who shared the GM duties last season with front-office veteran Dave Twardzik, scored big with two trades last season. He acquired a big man (Milicic) and a point guard (Carlos Arroyo) in a deal with the Pistons that has bolstered Orlando's future.

His shrewdest move was sending Steve Francis' huge contract to the New York Knicks in exchange for young forward Trevor Ariza and Penny Hardaway's expiring contract.

Smith also re-signed Battie and refused to overspend to keep Stevenson. But he did gamble in picking Redick, who now has back trouble.

A former Magic player, Smith faces a critical offseason next summer. Milicic will be looking for a new contract, and the Magic will have about $12 million in cap room to pursue free agents.

i think people are underestimating turkoglu, and also orlando's big man rotation.

they'll end up in the #10-20 pick.

Will everyone on this board drop their hard ons about DaRkO!!!! I don't remember anybody giving a flying shit about the Magic until the Pystuns dumped DaRkO on them.

Which is interesting, considering how many DaRkO haters populate this board.

Orlando is good for two things, and two things only -- old person relocation, and Disneyworld!

Its not Darko, its the pick.

http://kate.zed1.net/blog/wp-content/images/plz%20work.jpg

Now THAT'S a pick.

Now thats fucked up.

Back on topic

If Howard Nelson Hill can all stay healthy who knows but the East is so weak any team can get in

Can people post their Top 8 in the East?

In no particular order:

Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit, Indiana, Miami, Milwaukee, New Jersey, Washington

Can people post their Top 8 in the East?

In no particular order:

Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit, Indiana, Miami, Milwaukee, New Jersey, Washington

I'll say that the Magic (depending on Hill's health) could very well beat out Washington, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Indiana in the lottery despite the eternal optimism of their fanbase.

The Nets are also a Wince Harder injury away from missing the playoffs as well.

Vince hasn't been injured seriously in Jersey yet.

And beating out Washington? You do know that Arenas, Caron Butler and Jamison are all still in the capital, right?

Man, I guess we'll go through this until the playoffs are decided because I honestly don't see what people are raving about.

Howard and Nelson had good seasons last time out, but teams will be better prepared and geared up to stopping them if the Magic are a playoff contender. How will Nelson and Howard handle that?

It's one thing to win games at the end of the season. It's a whole different story winning games when teams are gunning for you and are preparing schemes to stop your best player or players.

Who else will step up?

Hill? A huge question mark in my mind due to injury.
Darko? A huge question mark because he's never done shit in the league.
JJ? Rookie
Hedo? Sure, he's OK but the guy he guards will score a lot too.

Too many question marks IMO.

Pharoah prolbaby has the closest list.

If Indy can stay healthy they are a top 5 team in our conference. The only 3 possible choices for the 8th is Bucks MAgic or even the 76ers if webbers not out. I give it to the Bucks for now

Possibly the last thing I post in this thread:

Fuck the Magic.

They had their chance when Ben, Chucky, Billups and Maggette were there. That team also had a ton of hard workers and Doc Rivers as coach. They moved half the team to get Hill and McGrady.

Bad karma is a killer!

My top 8:
1) Miami, 2) New Jersey, 3) Detroit, 4) Cleveland, 5) Chicago, 6) Washington, 7) Indiana, 8) Milwaukee. To me, the East is Miami, New Jersey and the Central Division.

This is for Pharaoh.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/local/orl-magic27a06sep27,0,5439538.story?coll=orl-sports-headlines


Howard predicts NBA title

Brian Schmitz
Sentinel Staff Writer

September 27, 2006

Orlando Magic center Dwight Howard was asked whether he ever had heard of Joe Namath.

"Maybe . . . Uh, I think so," he said.

Little did the 20-year-old Howard know, though, that he had pulled a Namath on Tuesday, guaranteeing that the Magic would win the NBA title -- this season.

No matter that the Magic finished 36-46 last season and haven't been to the playoffs since 2003.

Kids say the darndest things.

"I think our team has the chance to go all the way. We got all the tools," Howard said, straight-faced. "I think this year we can go all the way."

It didn't appear he was joking. Perhaps some clarification was in order.

You mean all the way to the playoffs, Dwight?

"All the way to the championship," he said.

Ah, they're so cute at this age.

Well, what's the harm? You at least have to believe. If nothing else, the defending champion Miami Heat will get a kick out of it.

Maybe Howard received a confidence boost after spending time with LeBron James and Team USA this summer.

If you're as young as Howard, you might not be aware that Namath delivered on his guarantee in 1969 after declaring that his New York Jets would upset the Baltimore Colts in Super Bowl III.

Howard certainly has set the Magic's bar into another stratosphere. But if they're going to make the postseason, he has to take another step to stardom.

His numbers improved from his rookie year, and he finished second in the league in rebounding last season.

At 6-feet-11 and now nearly 270 pounds, Howard said he wants to be "an intimidator" on both ends. Rarely venturing from under the basket, he worked on his shooting to "open up my game" and looks to improve his 60 percent average at the free-throw line.

Defensively, he said, "I don't think anybody should get in the paint as easy as they did last year."

Howard said his experience playing with Team USA in the World Championship opened his eyes.

"I had a great experience, being the youngest player," said Howard, who averaged just three shots a game but was an effective rebounder and defender.

"I was able to see how the veterans control their teams and me being one of the leaders for the Magic. . . . How I need to step up and be a leader."

Howard enjoyed entertaining U.S. servicemen overseas. His finger-snapping dance routines led teammates to nickname him "Sergeant Snap."

Sgt. Snap looked a little worn-out. With camp opening next Tuesday, he was urged by the Magic to rest the past few weeks. Getting back into basketball shape has left him sore, and he got a massage at RDV Sportsplex.

But the whirlwind summer/fall for Howard doesn't stop. He flies to Los Angeles today to work with 2K Sports on his part in a NBA video game debuting next year.

Next offseason brings more pre-Olympic competition. He wouldn't mind filling it with even more basketball if the Magic can extend their season with a playoff run. Or a parade if you dream like Howard dreams.

I'll be rooting for the Magic to sneak into the playoffs, if only because i love Dwight Howard's game.

I love Dwight Howard but seriously the Magic have little chance to get into the playoffs and even advancing to the 2nd round seems like a longshot

LMMFAO

Championship?

That olympic pot the boys smoked must be super strong cause the man is fucking high if he thinks that roster is ready for the Finals.

For the life of me I can not believe people think that roster is playoff bound.

Everyone that thinks they're among the top 8 says "If Hill is healthy" or "If Darko plays well".

Forget the if and realise that Hill hasn't been healthy since he left and will never be completely healthy ever again. Too much hardware in his ankle for him to be 100%.

And Darko hasn't played enough for anyone to consider him a vital member of any team. People are going fucking crazy over Darko because he played decently for a short period of time. It's like people assume he can go every single night for 82 games.

I call bullshit on that. He's never done it. If he manages to do it this season I'll sing his praises but until then he's not a factor.

Fuck Orlando - I can't wait until the season is over

Nice win for the Magic last night against one of the teams that they'll likely be competing with for a playoff spot, Washington.

Arroyo with 23 pts. in 26 mins.

Darko 1-8 in 20 mins.

note: poll is at 11-11 as I bump this.

If you are a true Pistons fan, you'll be rooting for them to not make the playoffs so we are graced with a pretty decent lottery pick.

I'm sure you're not implying that people who think the Magic will make the playoffs are not "true Pistons fans", right?

pharoah, i think the magic make the playoffs independant of hill's ankle or darko's play. my caveat is as long as dwight stays healthy.

daviticus, if your a true piston fan your building a time machine so you can go back and stop joe d from making somany bad moves.

I'm sure you're not implying that people who think the Magic will make the playoffs are not "true Pistons fans", right?

Absolutly not. I would never imply something that bad.

And B-diddy, you make it sound like he's made a ton of bad moves, while I agree he's screwed up plenty and we all wish he could take back the Darko pick, saying he made a lot of bad moves is a bit extreme.

At least he's made several very good moves amongst his mistakes. Which is more than we can say for many NBA GM's.

pharoah, i think the magic make the playoffs independant of hill's ankle or darko's play. my caveat is as long as dwight stays healthy.

daviticus, if your a true piston fan your building a time machine so you can go back and stop joe d from making somany bad moves.

I think you tend to take what Joey does for us for granted. I know you're a Dumars critic, but give me a break. This guy took over a beaten franchise with their star leaving and turned it into a perennial powerhouse in 3 1/2 years. Just because they haven't won it every year doesn't mean he's failed. Step back and take a look at the Pistons now, compared to 10 years ago. What other GM has created a top 5 team without overpaying for a superstar?

Compare him head to head with any other GM in the league. Who has done more with less? Who has done more period?

The Pistons are in good hands as long as Joe D is in control, so stop hating.

In general, I think Dumars knew enough coming in to turn the team around. He understood how to ship out guys like Jud Buechler in packages that other GMs would accept for cap reasons and whatnot and how to use players like Curry and James productively without ruining your cap situation. I think he's had to learn on the fly to manage a consitently good team while still challenging for a championship and continuing to bring in guys who can grow into being key players in the future. Learning as you go comes with a higher % for error as has certainly been the case here. He's definately made more mistakes in this phase than the last one, but I think he's also shown the continued aggressiveness that is important to the team from becoming the Pacers or the Timberwolves (a team that's almost always in the playoffs but almost never really contending for the championship).

damn magic. win on a buzzer beater against the sonics. they're obviously going to win their share of games this year, but could we catch a break and have them lose these ones?

having them win games at the buzzer REALLY doesn't help our chances of getting a nice pick. they're 4-2 if you're counting. :(

Step back and take a look at the Pistons now, compared to 10 years ago.

a team several years removed from a championship? check.

a team with a ton of talented perimeter players? check.

a team with little to no inside talent? check.

a team that wasnt going anywhere? check.

i'd take that team from ten years ago anyday. we had some ballers then. hunter, dumars, hill are fairly comparable to billups, rip and tay. thorpe would was alot more consistent than sheed, and our centers (think it was mills and ratliff then, with don reid the third guy) were more affective than whatever we have in the middle now.

fact is, joe did a great job building this team. but its been a while since he's helped us along. this team SHOULD have won more than it did. and quite frankly, since dyess, i've been impressed by alot of gm's, and dumars isnt one of them. doesnt it bother anyone that this heat team will go down in history with as many rings as this piston team? thats whacko, but its also the way it is.

a team several years removed from a championship? check.

a team with a ton of talented perimeter players? check.

a team with little to no inside talent? check.

a team that wasnt going anywhere? check.

i'd take that team from ten years ago anyday. we had some ballers then. hunter, dumars, hill are fairly comparable to billups, rip and tay. thorpe would was alot more consistent than sheed, and our centers (think it was mills and ratliff then, with don reid the third guy) were more affective than whatever we have in the middle now.

fact is, joe did a great job building this team. but its been a while since he's helped us along. this team SHOULD have won more than it did. and quite frankly, since dyess, i've been impressed by alot of gm's, and dumars isnt one of them. doesnt it bother anyone that this heat team will go down in history with as many rings as this piston team? thats whacko, but its also the way it is.

Okay usually when you post I can see the point you're trying to make... but you are pulling shit out of your asshole and throwing it onto a keyboard here. I seriously hope you're kidding or drunk.

1996 Roster (Teal Era)
Aaron McKie
Don Ried
Grant Hill
Grant Long
Jerome Williams
Joe Dumars
Kenny Smith
Lindsey Hunter
Literiel Green
Michael Curry
Otis Thorpe
Randolph Childress
Rick Mahorn
Stacey Augmon
Terry Mills
Theo Ratliff

2006 Roster
Chauncey Billups
Will Blalock
Dale Davis
Carlos Delfino
Ron Dupree
Rip Hamilton
Lindsey Hunter
Amir Johnson
Jason Maxiell
Antonio McDyess
Nazr Mohammed
Flip Murray
Tayshaun Prince
Rasheed Wallace

If you take the first roster over the second, you lose all credibility as a basketball critic.


a team several years removed from a championship? check.

a team with a ton of talented perimeter players? check.

a team with little to no inside talent? check.

a team that wasnt going anywhere? check.

You have a problem with mathematics if you can't figure out that that the current Pistons are only 2 years removed from a championship, 1 year removed from the finals, and 6 months removed from having the best record in franchise history.

Talented perimiter players - you got that one right. a '96 Hill would have been the best perimiter player on this team, but the REST belong to the current Pistons, even over an aged (not aging) Joe Dumars. Hunter, Dumars and Hill are comparable to Billups, Rip and Tay? Put down the "I love the 90s" DVDs and pay attention.

Little to no inside Talent? You're a moron. What exactly is inside talent to you? Shaq? Duncan? Those guys are one in a billion, and we got one of the top 5 most TALENTED post players in the league, as well as a very good Dyess and a more than servicable Mohammed.

After 5 games your ready to say this team isn't going anywhere? Did you think the 2003-2004 Pistons weren't going anywhere either? Because before winning 20 out of their last 24 games due to a certain trade, they didn't look very good either. But a certain GM made a great trade to win us a championship.

Dumars did such a good job building this team that the NBA had to change the rules to stop us. That's not opinion, that's fact. Dumars still has the most talented starting 5 in the league, and a good bench. The Pistons problem is their idiot coach, that Joe was forced to hire due to the changing rules. Now that he had to change the identity of the team, he's still keeping the Pistons competitive while doing that. (By the way, the anti-Sheed rule is just another example of trying to hurt the Pistons. As soon as they get rid of the "Superstar treatment" they will get rid of whining.)

Ben leaving was a gift from God - did you want Joe to overpay for a guy who is getting worse by the year?

Your boy Darko leaving was a must - how's he doing in Orlando? Oh he's sulking again? Surprising.

What would you have done differently? I'm sure if you would have taken over this team in 2000, we would have at least 5 championships by now. So let me know what he can do so I can hate Joe Dumars with you.

Phenomenal post Mo, the best I've read in a long time.

Okay usually when you post I can see the point you're trying to make... but you are pulling shit out of your asshole and throwing it onto a keyboard here. I seriously hope you're kidding or drunk.

1996 Roster (Teal Era)
Aaron McKie
Don Ried
Grant Hill
Grant Long
Jerome Williams
Joe Dumars
Kenny Smith
Lindsey Hunter
Literiel Green
Michael Curry
Otis Thorpe
Randolph Childress
Rick Mahorn
Stacey Augmon
Terry Mills
Theo Ratliff

2006 Roster
Chauncey Billups
Will Blalock
Dale Davis
Carlos Delfino
Ron Dupree
Rip Hamilton
Lindsey Hunter
Amir Johnson
Jason Maxiell
Antonio McDyess
Nazr Mohammed
Flip Murray
Tayshaun Prince
Rasheed Wallace

If you take the first roster over the second, you lose all credibility as a basketball critic.



lol, what was our record with that piston team? 54 wins. who here is predicting more wins than that? 54 wins is the high end of what this team is capable of. that team didnt get out of the first round. this team will, but only if we get a good draw.




You have a problem with mathematics if you can't figure out that that the current Pistons are only 2 years removed from a championship, 1 year removed from the finals, and 6 months removed from having the best record in franchise history.

Talented perimiter players - you got that one right. a '96 Hill would have been the best perimiter player on this team, but the REST belong to the current Pistons, even over an aged (not aging) Joe Dumars. Hunter, Dumars and Hill are comparable to Billups, Rip and Tay? Put down the "I love the 90s" DVDs and pay attention.

are you saying i didnt watch those piston teams? lol. im wondering if you did. joe dumars certainly wasnt "aged" at that point. he was a killer from the 3 and was a better defender than anyone on this team still.

i think 96 was the better team, you think 06 was. fine. its certainly debatable, a much better comparison than comparing 06 to 04.



Little to no inside Talent? You're a moron. What exactly is inside talent to you? Shaq? Duncan? Those guys are one in a billion, and we got one of the top 5 most TALENTED post players in the league, as well as a very good Dyess and a more than servicable Mohammed.

sheed is a great inside talent, your right. i mean, if he didnt have all those baskets on the inside last night, we wouldnt have squeeked by the kings last night... oh wait. thats right sheed had 0 (zero) points on the inside. newsflash: great inside talent doesnt get shut out twice in 5 games. as for dyce, he stopped playing in the post in 04-05. and mohammed definitly falls under the category of "little to no talent".



After 5 games your ready to say this team isn't going anywhere? Did you think the 2003-2004 Pistons weren't going anywhere either? Because before winning 20 out of their last 24 games due to a certain trade, they didn't look very good either. But a certain GM made a great trade to win us a championship.


after 5 games? lol. if the pistons were 5-0 i'd be singing the same tune.

as far as 2004, i thought the pistons were going to win the championship before the sheed trade. that team was gritty, hungry, deep, and well coached. none of which we are now.



Dumars did such a good job building this team that the NBA had to change the rules to stop us. That's not opinion, that's fact. Dumars still has the most talented starting 5 in the league, and a good bench. The Pistons problem is their idiot coach, that Joe was forced to hire due to the changing rules. Now that he had to change the identity of the team, he's still keeping the Pistons competitive while doing that. (By the way, the anti-Sheed rule is just another example of trying to hurt the Pistons. As soon as they get rid of the "Superstar treatment" they will get rid of whining.)


wahhh! jesus christ. i hate this bs. the league changed the rules after we won. true. also true: we made it back to the finals the next year (post rule change). the league isnt out for the pistons. they didnt fuck us over in the playoffs last year. and the anti-sheed rule might hurt the pistons, but it wasnt put in place to hurt the pistons. its sheed's own damn fault that he cries like a baby after every call.



Ben leaving was a gift from God - did you want Joe to overpay for a guy who is getting worse by the year?
no, i wanted joe to keep ben so that we'd have another chance at a ring.



Your boy Darko leaving was a must - how's he doing in Orlando? Oh he's sulking again? Surprising.

relevance? is this gutz? darko isnt my boy. i said it was a stupid trade by dumars. i also said darko was showing real improvement last year after we traded him. i dont doubt he'll get it going again this year. why did you bring this up again?



What would you have done differently? I'm sure if you would have taken over this team in 2000, we would have at least 5 championships by now. So let me know what he can do so I can hate Joe Dumars with you.

joe did a great job building this team. 2004 was a summer of tough decisions, but he did a great job considering. what could he have done differently? i dont know, add pieces to this team rather than strip it time after time? example: name me one other 1st place team in any sport that was dumping payroll at the tradedeadline. that doesnt happen... except to the pistons.

but joe couldnt add because we were apparently under a super tight budget. thats fine, not his fault atleast. but if you want to beable to keep your 5 good players and stay under the salary cap, you have to cut short on the luxury items (ie: giving dale davis 3.5 million/per to do absolutely nothing, or carlos arroyo 4+ to do nothing).

but blah blah blah. this has all been discussed a ton of times as it is.

I had to skip most of this because I couldn't get past a few things. 96 was Grant's second year, Doug Collin's first year, and Houston's last. They were better than the year before but swept by Shaq and Penny. 97 was the first year without Houston, they won more games but still lost to Glenn's favorite Spartan (Steve Smith) and the Hawks in the first round.

This season is 2007 season, 10 years ago would be the 97 season.

The 96 team = a team lead by young players with potential. The 97 team = a team crippled by the loss of Houston who would never be better than 3rd in their own division.

I'd take the 2007 team over the 97 team in a heart beat. The potential of the 96 team was nice (I probably idealize it a bit as it was the first group I was watching grow up) but ignoring things like Hills eventual career of injuries and Houstons future flight, I might take the 96 team. The idea of Hill healthy and running a team and Houston stroking it all over the court is a nice one.

Right now our pick coming from Orlando is in the 17-21 range, which is right about where our own pick is too.

You can see what that brings in return here: http://www.nbadraft.net/

I don't follow the college game all that much, can someone tell me why we should be excited about any of those guys in the lottery outside of the top 5 protection range, which is the BEST case scenario for this Magic pick?

I'm talking about players in the #6-#14 area, as that covers the "lottery pick" range that many here have been hoping for/predicting.

I see people aren't too excited about that pick in the 20 range.

Don't look now Pharaoh, the Magic would be the #2 seed in the East if the season ended today*.


*I love that cliche

And when does the season end?

Not today, not tomorrow and not next week.

Fuck, it's not even December yet.

Come back in January and we'll see if they're for real or not

agreed, geeks like us get put way too much stock in the game to game nba.

but the magic are for real. anyone with that good ofa bigman, and decent surrounding pieces are going to make the playoffs. if not because theyre good, definitly because the east looks mediocre yet again. i think they have a pretty decent chance of winning their devision.

Winning their division?

Fucking hell!

Dwight better be the Almighty because unless I'm mistaken the Magic play in the same division as the Heat.

IMO Wade and Shaq will get their shit together with enough time to claim another division title.

Oh, and here's another reason why I don't think the Magic can keep this up:

Grant Hill is shooting 56%. He's a career 48% shooter.
Jameer Nelson is shooting 58%. He's a career 48% shooter
Carlos Arroyo is shooting 54%. He's a career 43% shooter

Sure you can contribute some of the difference to the newer rules and/or Dwight's massive presence but for crying out loud those 3 guys are vital cogs in their system and are shooting the fucking lights out like they've never done before.

They can't keep that up IMO.

probably not. but believe me, they have a nice thing going there in orlando. i was hoping for a late lottery pick but i think they make the playoffs easily now.

sure it's still early and they have a long way to go. but everything i'm seeing from that team shows they are a budding young core of players.

anyway, at this rate our pick will be a better one than orlando's and WE might be in the lottery at this rate! :(

as i said in anotehr thread- if we're going to stink or blow this team up, this is the year to do it. if even most of the players who are projected to declare, declare, we're talking about a draft with about 5-7 guys who IMO are #1 overall type talents.

and even beyond that the top 20 or so picks would likely have a BUNCH of talent. a guy like al horford, for example, was seen as an amare type of guy and many mocks have him slipping out of the top 10 even!

now i'm not saying he will be the same player as amare, but he is a very highly thought of prospect and he is sliding down mostly due to the top talent that could be available in addition to him.

this draft has me drooling, believe me. i would do anything to have a couple of top 10 picks. if i were joe i would be working the phone lines trying to unload guys like sheed and delfino and whoever else, in order to try and get picks from teams who are likely lottery bound.

This looks a bit better.


1. * Cleveland --
2. * Orlando -- [smilie=pharaoh.gif]
3. * New Jersey 1.5
4. Detroit 2.0
5. Indiana 2.0
6. Atlanta 2.0
7. Philadelphia 2.5
8. Miami 2.5
9. Washington 2.5
10. Boston 3.0
11. New York 3.5
12. Chicago 4.0
13. Milwaukee 4.0
14. Toronto 4.5
15. Charlotte 4.5

OK, so if they can't keep the hot shooting going how are they gonna keep winning?

BTW, I don't think we're looking to trade for draft picks. We're the new Portland/Indiana: Making the playoffs is all ownership wants.

Nice smiley GD.

Come back on January 1st.

The NBA season has just begun.

Nice smiley GD.

Come back on January 1st.

The NBA season has just begun.

I thought you'd like that.

So you are still insisting that they won't even grab the #8 seed?

Just trying to get this shit documented, lol.

I stated my opinion loud and clear for all to read and will do so again for you GD:

I believe Orlando will miss the playoffs.

Yes, I again posted it.

Now, if I'm wrong I'll admit I'm wrong but all this Magic love has got to stop. It's still fucking November boys.

Let's save the celebrations until April.

Okay, Okay!!

But I'll ask you again tomorrow though, just in case.

Man, ask me every day.

If Orlando is still looking like locks AND

If Hill is still (mostly) healthy AND

If most of their team is still shooting career numbers AND

If the rest of East stays in this current fucking state

I might, just might call the race over early...

But don't count on it.

Playoff positions aren't handed out in November, December or January.

You should know that GD.

But are you still high on Toronto?

Dwight Howard has three 20/20 games in his last five games played.

The kid is only 20 years old.

Amazing.

Am I still high on Toronto? Yeah, I think Colangelo will get that team back into the playoffs.

Not this season though. Mitchell is not the man for the job and they're too young. They might make it next season but don't bet the house on it. The season after that? Sure - give the man 3 seasons and see what he does.

Just a quick note too: I think next season Orlando will be a playoff lock. Howard, Darko, JJ, Nelson and all those guys will be rolling. But this season? I don't trust the youth or the health of Hill.

ORLANDO DRAFT PICK UPDATE

The pick currently sits at #25, where nbadraft.net projects us taking Richard Roby (Kenyon Martin's 1/2 brother).

http://nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/richardroby.html

In a possible NBA Finals matchup, the Magic take down the Jazz.

Our draft pick from the Magic (formerly referred to by some as a "high lottery pick") currently stands at #28 or #29 (depending on a tiebreaker with the Spurs).

worst case scenario...seriously the East is pretty weak, if the Magic continue to play like that, they'll be in the playoffs for sure...i'd still expect the Pistons, Miami, NJ, Chicago and Cleveland finishing ahead of the Magic...i'd be pissed if we end up with a 20+pick...the Darko fiasco will haunt us forever if we can't end up with a decent player with that pick...time for Grant to take a break, they are playing too well with him in the lineup

If Joe had of drafted Bosh and Josh Howard in 2003 we wouldn't be sweating on a 2007 pick.

Dude fucked up 2 picks in the deepest Draft in God's know long long.

Now he gets a second chance and God is pointing and laughing at him:

God: Second chances, Joe. You have a choice: The Hall of Fame or another high Draft pick.

Joe: I'll take the Hall. Davidson wouldn't pay the max to a high pick anyway.

the good news is that in 10 or 15 years, it'll be like the 2003 draft never happened.

I wonder how often teams that start a season 12-4 don't make the playoffs?

They're 3-0 on their current west coast trip, too.

at this pace theyre going to have a playoff spot by mid january. seriously, how many wins is the 8th seed going to have? 35? 30?

and Hill just hit a game winner...

Is everyone still boning about DaRkO???

LOL if Orlando wins their division at .500

Is everyone still boning about DaRkO???


^ Doesn't get it.

[smilie=alpaca.gif]

4-1 on their west coast swing, do you think the Pistons would take that?

The Magic are at Indy as the last road game on a 6 game trip and then we're their first game back home on the 8th.

Should be a good one.

The Magic are at Indy as the last road game on a 6 game trip and then we're their first game back home on the 8th.

Should be a good one.
It's the 2nd game of a back-to-back, with Dallas being the first game.

We might well get blown out. This smells "letdown game" to me.

I believe the Magic have lost 3 out of 5 so far in December...

i thought we had to wait till feb to bring up their record? ... oh c'mon stackman, the trade sucked in every way possible. it doesnt matter how the magic ends up. we f'd up.

I agree that not getting more in the trade sucked. It was a salary dump and they do tend to suck 99.9% of the time (see Corliss for DC and Evans for Samb)

I won't defend Joe or the organisation for the moves that sucked.

And I won't sit here and pretend to be on the Magic bandwagon like some. I still do not believe they are leading the East. They lost Stevenson (their best perimeter defender) and added a rookie with a bad back and Keith Bogans!

Big fucking deal! I still seriously doubt Dwight Howard and Jameer Nelson can take that sorry excuse for a roster to the playoffs.

IF I'm wrong then so be it. At least I'm not some fucking fanboy sitting here on Dec 10th claiming their hot shit and are running shit.

Fuck that.

If 2 young cats like Howard and Nelson can take that shitty roster to the playoffs then the league is fucking worse than I thought.

If 2 young cats like Howard and Nelson can take that shitty roster to the playoffs then the league is fucking worse than I thought.

The league is shit[smilie=llama_banan:

Stevenson is actually doing pretty good in Washington and getting quality minutes next to Arenas.

Yeah, I know Stevenson is doing OK - good for him.

I honestly will be fucking stunned if they make the playoffs.

There is no other way to say it.

Looking at the weak ass east right now, Orlando will most likely make it. The magic are 40% so far, this month...and unfortunately, 40% can get you into this weak conference..

Well, if they make it color me stunned.

And this will be my conspiracy theory if threy make it:

Many basketball fans can't be bothered with the regular season anymore anyway, so the league had to have a pathetic, shitty team win a lot and was hoping the shock of that attracted viewers.

Or

Stern doesn't want Orlando to relocate so he helped them out where it matters most (with the refs)

And I won't sit here and pretend to be on the Magic bandwagon like some.


IF I'm wrong then so be it. At least I'm not some fucking fanboy sitting here on Dec 10th claiming their hot shit and are running shit.

I'm guessing that these comments were directed at me.

Since it's apparent that even though I feel like I have sufficiently taken this over the top so that it should be clear that I am just being antagonistic, it doesn't look like that is the case.

To be more clear:

I am pretending to be on their bandwagon. I don't have any affinity for Orlando whatsoever, other than to have some good natured fun with those that a) mistakenly said they wouldn't make the playoffs and b) that this pick (formerly known as a "high lottery pick") is not going to be that at all.

Bottom line, Orlando is playoff worthy, and Joe fucked up not getting more for the Darkness and Arroyo.

GD - my little rant wasn't directed at you or anyone else for that matter.

I was just tired of everyone basically pointing at me and saying "He's fucking stupid. They're playoff locks"

Fuck y'all. It's fucking December and that roster is SHIT.

So far in December they have played 7 games and lost 4 of them. The hot shooting has stopped and Turkoglu is injured.

I think the schedule is starting to become a factor (as it always does) and some of these "hot" teams are gonna fall in a heap and the real contenders will continue to win like they usually do.

BTW, check out the Magic's remaining schedule for December:

Dec 13 vs Toronto 7:00 pm
Dec 14 at Charlotte 7:00 pm
Dec 16 vs Cleveland 7:00 pm
Dec 20 vs New Orl/OKC 7:00 pm
Dec 22 vs Golden State 7:00 pm
Dec 23 at Cleveland 7:30 pm
Dec 27 vs LA Lakers 7:00 pm
Dec 29 at Washington 7:00 pm
Dec 30 vs Miami 7:00 pm

That's pretty tough.

And, since I am on the record stating they won't make the 8 does anyone wanna be bold enough to state they will?

Or is everyone just gonna wait and say "I told you so" when the season ends?

And, since I am on the record stating they won't make the 8 does anyone wanna be bold enough to state they will?

Or is everyone just gonna wait and say "I told you so" when the season ends?

Message board guarantees are priceless, especially with nothing at stake.

Okay, I'll play along, I guarantee it.

This thread has a poll at the top of it P (for who thinks they are in or not).

BTW, I don't think anyone is calling you stupid P (in case you really feel that way and aren't just using it in a general way, which is what it looks like you are doing).

I think they'll make the 'offs. They've got a big man who can do it all, another who can sporadically defend or score, two guards who can play by themselves and get points, and compliments (Hill, Dooling, Ariza, Turk). Sure a lot of those guys are just alright and so they aren't winning the 'ship anytime soon but their make the playoffs. Especially since Howard is stepping like people hoped he would and the guards are remembering what they did to get points at the end of last season.

If Hill goes down they might have to scrap to get in, but they're better than everyone in the Atlantic not named the Nets. If its between the Bucks and the Magic for #8, I'll take Howard and Hill (the coach) over Redd and Stotts

And I won't sit here and pretend to be on the Magic bandwagon like some. I still do not believe they are leading the East. They lost Stevenson (their best perimeter defender) and added a rookie with a bad back and Keith Bogans!

Big fucking deal! I still seriously doubt Dwight Howard and Jameer Nelson can take that sorry excuse for a roster to the playoffs.

IF I'm wrong then so be it. At least I'm not some fucking fanboy sitting here on Dec 10th claiming their hot shit and are running shit.

Fuck that.

If 2 young cats like Howard and Nelson can take that shitty roster to the playoffs then the league is fucking worse than I thought.

I'm not on their bandwagon, but I picked them to make the playoffs. I think they are a solid bottom rung playoff team. They are just as good as Indi, Milwaukee, Boston or any other 5-8th seed type team. I don't like the Magic (outside Hill and Howard) either. I can't stand whiney Darko, I don't like Turk, and i've never liked Garrity either. I think they'll just be swept in the first round, but they are a playoff team IMO.

I honestly think that the Orlando roster is shit.

Nelson is averaging like 2 points a game in DEcember while Dwight just had a 4-4 game against the Suns. Proves that shit teams like ORlando cant do shit against elite teams like the Suns...

I bet you that Hedo hits another injury and that Grant will not be in top form come all-star break. Top form as in top form ofthis season. There's no way hes gonna keep putting up 16 points a game.

Orlando 7 above 500
Detroit
Clveland
Jersey record is 8-12...
Chicago
Indy they are below .500
Washington
Miami 2 below 500
------------
Atlanta 3 games below 500
Bucks
Boston

It's very possible the Magic get 3 games under 500 and miss the playoffs(if the Heat continue to play shit basketball for the remainder of the season and get below 500 by 2 games)

Quite frankly, I dont see any of these 3 below 500 beating out the magic thuogh. Fuck the weak east.

**unless the celts can aquire iverson without losing Wally and Al Jefferson

The Magic just lost to a bosh-less raptors team...

No Jameer Nelson or Hedo, and Hill left after 19 mins with knee tendonitis, but that's no excuse, especially without Bosh.

They're struggling, no doubt, but they are still the #1 seed in the EC for now, and 5 games out of falling out of the 8 spot, which doesn't sound like a lot, but it is.

This whole place is going to smell like Pharaoh's shit when he logs on next, lol.

I think injuries and the fact that they realized they are the Magic is starting to catch up with them. It seems like they lost their swagger. By no means does that mean the sky is falling but 3-6 in dec so far shows they are not going to keep up top 3 seed status. When all is said and done they will likely make the playoffs because the east is so shitty, but as a lower seed.

Hedos out but no excuse for losing to the Cavs...they dont have anyone outside of LeBron...seriously

I'd take Big Z over most starting Cs -- including our own.

Hedos out but no excuse for losing to the Cavs...they dont have anyone outside of LeBron...seriously

You do realize that the Cavs are a top 5 team in the East, right?

Pistons
Bulls
Magic
Cavs
Heat (when healthy)

That's about it, especially with Kristic gone for the year.

Yes, but the Cavs are not a deep team and have a worse bench than us. The Cavs starting point guard is 33 years old and can't do much than pass the ball, and he's not that great at that. Larry hughes has been nothing to the Cavs so far being injured for a good part of the season.Drew Gooden is very inconsistent. Sure he can grab those rebounds but he isn't anywhere near a good power forward. Z is out of his prime BUT he is still having a decent year.

If Orlando thinks they can make it to the NBA Finals, then they need to shapen up and beat teams like the Cavs. Honestly, I don't even know how the Cavs are above .500.

1 game over 500 on a 3 game losing streak. Basically fighting Toronto and the rest of the Atlantic (and the Bucks) for the #8 spot (assuming Miami starts winning with Shaq back).

Since December 1st:

10 wins
18 losses

Interesting...

Since December 1st:

10 wins
18 losses

Interesting...

We get about one post a month from you these days and this is all you got?

I had them slotted at the #7 seed, and I'll stick with that.

Grant Hill out 2-3 weeks, which means he's out for the year:

Orlando, FL (Sports Network) - Orlando Magic forward/guard Grant Hill will miss 2-3 weeks with a sprained right knee he suffered in Wednesday's 98-73 win ...

Highly unlikely Orlando makes the playoffs at this point. Grant was the one thing left holding them together.

You know there is something wrong when you lose to the Knicks by 8 and Curry shoots 10-13 from the field...

If this team doesn't make a move we'll get a pick from 16-18 imo.

the real story is that dwight howard hasnt been neerly as dominant lately.

What happens if Orlando somehow wins a top 3 pick? They'd get Oden, Durant or Noah and we'd get a shit pick next year. Luckily they played well enough to start the year that it's pretty remote.

What happens if Orlando somehow wins a top 3 pick? They'd get Oden, Durant or Noah and we'd get a shit pick next year. Luckily they played well enough to start the year that it's pretty remote.
I'd cry that we didn't trade the pick.

We get about one post a month from you these days and this is all you got?

I had them slotted at the #7 seed, and I'll stick with that.

Yes, that's all you get GD.

Please don't take offence but... I have a soon-to-be 4 month old baby girl, a fiance, a full time job where I work 50+ hours per week (and can't even get online at the office) and I love to watch movies/play GTA on the xbox/go do something outside on my 2 days off.

However, you should take comfort in the fact that I'm still almost always right. So while it's sad to see some things change it's nice to know that some other things stay the same.

Losing to a Redd-less Bucks team.

amazing.

Unless dwight and nelson step it up, this team ain't going nowhere!!!

btw P, congrats on the baby girl

However, you should take comfort in the fact that I'm still almost always right. So while it's sad to see some things change it's nice to know that some other things stay the same.

Yes, I can see that you are still the same, old, modest Pharaoh.

Some things do stay the same.

[smilie=alpaca.gif]

You didn't really think I'd change that much after my daughter was born, did you?

Thanks for the congrats Cross.

All I will say on the subject of children:

It's fucking awesome and it will change your fucking life in every way.

Nice win vs. the Spurs.

Dwight=the magic roster.

If Dwight does good, they win.

if dwight gets 4 points and 4 rebounds, they lose.

also that block in the end was sick

Orlando Magic: They once led the conference, but now it's not clear that this odd collection can avoid the lottery -- which has been a disaster for Orlando the past two years. Grade: B-
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2760295&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab1pos2

Sounds good to me. Let them hit the lottery, but with a lower number of ping pong balls. Get a pick in the low teens or upper single digits.

another loss for the Magic despite having their 2 bigmen with huge games.


dwight goes 25pts on great shooting along with 12 boards while darko gets 16pts on good shooting...and with 12 boards.

Hedo shoots 0-8 while Nelson shoots an amazing 6-19.

Out of the playoffs as of right now. How much is that pick protected again?

Out of the playoffs as of right now. How much is that pick protected again?

Top 5

The Magic better get their asses in gear, I don't want a top 10 pick. No good can come from it and it will only magnify the terrible miscue that is Darko. Can you imagine losing out on budding Superstars twice because of one pick gone bad?

MAGIC PLEASE DON'T GIVE JOE A CHANCE TO DRAFT ANOTHER LOTTERY PICK!!!!!!!!! I can't bear to grit my teeth for another 5 years because you gave Joe a loaded gun at point blank range for him to miss. He is a helluva sniper but misses badly up close.

What's wrong with a top 10 pick? I wouldn't mind something in the 8-10 range. We blew that pick the last time (Rodney White), but I didn't want him anyway. I though he was the next Fatione Walker if we were lucky. I wanted Joe Johnson in that draft. Usually the draft goes like this:

Picks:
1-3 consensus top 3 picks, regardless of position
4-6 reaching for PG's or Big men that are hard to find
6-10 athletic swingmen with a lot of upside.

At least it seems that way recently.

I look at it as a win-win situation for Detroit. If Orlando plays like crap for the rest of the season, the pick gets better. If Orlando plays well, they will be pushing the Heat for one of the last playoff spots and could possibly knock them out of the playoffs. I'd rather take the latter!!!!!!!

At this point, I'd love to play Miami in the first round. Even if Wade comes back, he'll be scared shitless every time he goes to the basket.

Miami still scares me more than any other team in the East. Maybe Washington and Chicago a little but I see Miami as the only team that could actually beat us in four out of seven games.

Miami still scares me more than any other team in the East. Maybe Washington and Chicago a little but I see Miami as the only team that could actually beat us in four out of seven games.

There's no way that Miami without Wade should scare anyone.

I doubt they could beat us more than once in a series.

That's what I thought last year!!!!!!!!!

That's what I thought last year!!!!!!!!!

They didn't have Wade last year?

They had Wade but I thought that we would beat them. Instead we looked flat and they crushed us. They might have Wade come playoff time (if they make it) and they scare me.

At this point, I'd love to play Miami in the first round. Even if Wade comes back, he'll be scared shitless every time he goes to the basket.
Send Mad Max at him!

They had Wade but I thought that we would beat them. Instead we looked flat and they crushed us. They might have Wade come playoff time (if they make it) and they scare me.

Wade can't defy physics. If he did come back, he wouldn't drive into traffic. Ever. One hit would tear his shoulder off worse than before.

If Wade can't drive, he's an average player, and no threat whatsoever.

Wade or no Wade, Miami is zero threat to us this year.

Wade can't defy physics. If he did come back, he wouldn't drive into traffic. Ever. One hit would tear his shoulder off worse than before.

If Wade can't drive, he's an average player, and no threat whatsoever.

Wade or no Wade, Miami is zero threat to us this year.

That is an excellent point, if surgery is the option doctors have advised and he ignores it after the second opinion he is getting then he will not be an asset if he comes back. He has a serious injury, and he will risk his career putting off surgery.

Plus the way I see it is the Heat are struggling badly, what if he comes back and the team doesn't make the playoffs or loses in round one and he still needs surgery? How does that help the Heat? Or what if he makes it worse and needs major surgery that costs him the beginning of next season. It is not like the Heat are young. The team next season has 64 million committed to 8 players plus Doleac has a 3 million dollar player option, and they have Kapono, Payton, and Posey as FA's and could lose Zo to retirement. Therefore any time lost next season will be that much worse as the team ages and the payroll sky rockets.

I may be more excited about the remainder of the Magic season than our own.

Darko put up 14, 16 and 5 blocks last night. Next game: 2-7 and 4 turn overs.

As of tonight the Orlando pick has dropped to #13 overall. Yay!!!

And Hill's foot is an issue again.

Pharaoh is the man.

I'm rooting hard for the Knicks to get on a tear. I'd love to meet them in the first round, plus they would knock either Orlando or Miami out.

Lucky #13! That's pretty sweet. The only danger with a falling Orlando is what if they luck into the lottery? wow that would blow hard.
13 would probably be good enough to get dibs on Acie Law, at least according to the various draft sites, but those change daily..

the Nets just lost to the Celtics and Philly back to back and there about to enter a 5 game westcoast roadtrip...Indy is falling like a rock., NY lost Crawford and Q-Rich to injurys..comparing shedules the Magic have by far the easiest shedule and if they manage to play around .500 ball they could sneak up to the 7th playoffspot, worst case scenario

comparing shedules the Magic have by far the easiest shedule and if they manage to play around .500 ball they could sneak up to the 7th playoffspot, worst case scenario

And since December 1st have they played .500 ball in any month?

If they make the playoffs I'll be stunned.

And yes I'm aware I've been saying that shit for months

The problem is that NY and the Nets continue to blow their chances. I want both to make it and bump Miami and Orlando out.

NY has a chance, but all 3 teams are just going to limp to the playoffs. Whomever has the #1 seed (hopefully us) basically has a bye in the first round.

One thing we haven't talked about is the West Conference. Even though Sacramento, New Orleans, Minnesota, and Golden State could ALL still have better records than Orlando. If Orlando doesn't make the playoffs, it could move us up even 4 picks (assuming I have the seeding correctly).

i 100% expect miami to hit the #7 spot. it should be a fun, pathetic race #8 though.

One thing we haven't talked about is the West Conference. Even though Sacramento, New Orleans, Minnesota, and Golden State could ALL still have better records than Orlando. If Orlando doesn't make the playoffs, it could move us up even 4 picks (assuming I have the seeding correctly).

That's a great point. Those 4 teams are all within a game or two of Orlando. So there is still a good chance we could have the 9th pick even (because NY and NJ are withing a game of Orlando as well).

*POOP*

Lost to CHAR. to wrap up a 2/11 run with a couple tough games ahead.

Orlando pick is now in the lottery at 11 or 12 (tied with another team)

It's 11. Golden State won tonight and passed them up.

NOK and Minnesota are both only 1/2 a game back at #10 and #9 as well. Orlando could move into single digits within the week.

Orlando is only 3 1/2 games away from the 5th worst record in the league, do we have to worry about this now?
Philly won 7 straight, Atlanta 3 oO

Just curious if there is still anyone left that thinks that Darko is ever going to live up to his draft position?

If you do, please have the balls to say so.

I will LOL at whatever team pays him big $ (hopefully the Bulls, as has been rumored).

I can't see Darko being in Chicago under Skiles at this stage.

Just curious if there is still anyone left that thinks that Darko is ever going to live up to his draft position?

If you do, please have the balls to say so.

I will LOL at whatever team pays him big $ (hopefully the Bulls, as has been rumored).

Not really. If he wasn't a 7 footer and was 6'9" then he would have been taken at the end of the lotto, and maybe worth it. The height made him a #2 pick.

So we've moved up to pick 11? NICE!

I'm rooting for the 9th pick. It's far enough away from protection, and enough away that their chances of winning the lottery are very low. Though stranger things have happened.

So we've moved up to pick 11? NICE!

I'm rooting for the 9th pick. It's far enough away from protection, and enough away that their chances of winning the lottery are very low. Though stranger things have happened.

Even #7-8 is pretty safe. It's only a %4.3 and %2.8 chance at top 3. #6 jumps up to %6.3. They are a full 4 games ahead of the Sonics and Hawks in that regard (which isn't a lot, but still only 17 games left)

Strange thought.

Does anyone think there is any chance that Orlando could end up with a worse record next year?

If so, is it possible that getting the pick next year (when the protection is off) could actually be a better scenario?

We wouldn't need to make room for so many draftees this offseason, too.

I don't think that Orlando would be worse because I expect them to be healthier plus make some off-season moves. I think that considering how deep this draft is, I'd like the pick this year.

As a Pistons fan, it's hard to think about waiting another year, but it looks like there will be a lot of very good/great PGs at the top of the draft next year: http://www.nbadraft.net/index.asp?content=mock2008

I agree with you Glenn but who knows what will happen by then. We could lose Chauncey, we could suddenly rebuild (if we lose in the 1st rd or something) and i'd rather take the players now. We can always make trades to get more picks if we need to. Max's and Amir's value will only go up as will Blaylock's. Id' rather see the infusion of youth now so we don't get caught in a full on rebuilding mode like we did in the "teal" years if you know what I mean.

Yeah, I agree, I'm just bored today and trying to think outside the box a bit.

Strange thought.

Does anyone think there is any chance that Orlando could end up with a worse record next year?

If so, is it possible that getting the pick next year (when the protection is off) could actually be a better scenario?

We wouldn't need to make room for so many draftees this offseason, too.
Interesting though. Don't know anything about next year's class. However, for them to get the pick this year, it has to be top 3. So that means the get Oden, Durant or whoever is the 3rd player. It really depends on what they do with their cap space. I suspect they will try and keep Darko (unless the price is outragious), sign VC and maybe another piece. Let's just say they keep Darko, add Brandon Wright (current #3 on site), VC and a bench role player pf. They'll lose Hill, but their lineup would be:

PG: Jameer/Arroyo
SG: VC/Reddick/Bogans
SF: Wright/Turk/Ariza
PF: Darko/FA/Wright
C: Howard/Battie

If I see that I'm not looking for a top 2 pick next year. You basically swap Hill, Garrety and Bo Outlaw for VC, Wright and another FA. I highly doubt they get worse in that deal.

Also, we don't have a huge window of opportunity either. Now, supposing Billups leaves then I might rather gut the team, move Sheed, take the top 3 pick (only with the top 3 for sure though) and build around Tay, RIP, Amir and Max. If Billups is here, I want the pick now so we can be set for a few more years.

With an important win over Jersey, the Magic improved to the 7th spot in the east, tied with Indy, Jersey is half a game back, NY 1 1/2 back...if my pessimistic prediciton is right, the Magic will stay at that spot, not because there are any good, but because Indy, Jersey and NY even suck more than the Magic right now...

yea, the magic are up 2 and 1/2 with 9 to go. at this point, they could lose out and maybe still get in. i wasnt that far off pharoah, the mag could have won the division.

also, im sure no one will read through this entire thread, but post #2 was a pretty good one:


The east will probably be a better conference than the west next year.

THe golden state warriors wer eunbeatable at the end of 2005 once they got baron, and look at how they did in 2006.

Don't buy season-ending runs from lottery teams.

The original challenge from post 1 in this thread still stands.

Finding seven teams that are worse than the Magic in the East is not that hard to do.

As I did back in June, I still like Orlando for the 7 seed.

there is still hope guys...Indy won at Charlotte, Indy is just 1 game behind Orlando

remaining shedule
Orlando: Memphis, @ Milwaukee, @ Detroit, @ Philly, Boston, @ Washington, Maimi
Indiana: Boston, @ Philly, @ Milwaukee, @ Maimi, New Jersey, @ Atlanto, Washington

both teams play teams that are pretty bad with the exception of detroit.

i would rather playorlando inthe playoffs than the pacers

Where is P.

Where is P.


Million $ question, lol.

He'll be back 10 minutes after the Magic get eliminated (if that were to happen).




I joke, he's got more credibility than that.

magic up 2 with 3 games to play. theyre a much better draw for us than the pacers in the 1st rnd, so thats good, but it sucks. right now nbadraft has conley (he's staying, right?) and noah just out of reach. has us passing on acie law the fourth though. hmm... even at 15 we should get a good talent.

I'd much rather have the Pacers with their current lineup.

magic up 2 with 3 games to play. theyre a much better draw for us than the pacers in the 1st rnd, so thats good, but it sucks. right now nbadraft has conley (he's staying, right?) and noah just out of reach. has us passing on acie law the fourth though. hmm... even at 15 we should get a good talent.

Their mock is just a list of player ratings, they don't consider team needs at all.

I think Oden, Conley, and Cook are all leaving.

Orlando just made the playoffs...

whats even worse, Clips lost, Warriors won and moved to the 8th spot in the west...if the clips wont make the playoffs they will pick @14 and will most definitly grab Law...

on the other hand, it is the clippers. didnt they take two undersized pf's in the lottery, back to back, to store behind brand? they also essentially took shaun livingston over omeka okefor. i'll be more than happy to have them pick in front of us (though the same could be said for GSW, probably).

What does it matter whether I am shown to be right? I am right too much!—And he who laughs best today will also laugh last.

I'm not on their bandwagon, but I picked them to make the playoffs. I think they are a solid bottom rung playoff team. They are just as good as Indi, Milwaukee, Boston or any other 5-8th seed type team. I don't like the Magic (outside Hill and Howard) either. I can't stand whiney Darko, I don't like Turk, and i've never liked Garrity either. I think they'll just be swept in the first round, but they are a playoff team IMO.

Haha, I was the first to pick them in this thread and it was on page 10. Funny how many of us thought the Bucks were a borderline playoff team.

I can't rip Pharoah. He did call Toronto correctly and Orlando barely made it.

Henceforth, the draft pick owed by the Magic to the Pistons from the Darko trade shall not be referred to as a "lottery pick" or even more egregiously, an "early lottery pick".

Can we call it the "darko pick"?

Haha, I was the first to pick them in this thread and it was on page 10. Funny how many of us thought the Bucks were a borderline playoff team.

I can't rip Pharoah. He did call Toronto correctly and Orlando barely made it.

Honestly, the Bucks have quite a team, if they can stay healthy.

Bogut, Charlie V, Gadzuric, and Brian Skinner is a good big man rotation. They have a lot of solid guards around star Michael Redd. Mo Williams and Charlie Bell are all emerging talents while you got forwards Ruben Patterson and Bobby Simmons who are energy players that can also provide points. Don't forget late aquired Earl Boykins as well..

Bogut/Gadz
Charlie/SKinner
Redd/Patterson/David Noel/Bobby Simmons
Bell/ Redd
Mo Williams/Boykins

I dont know what their depth chart looks like but I would imagine it looked something like this. That team is a better team than the Nets and Magic imo.

well, at least this way they don't get a top 2 pick, get Durant and then win their division next year with Jameer, VC, Durant, Darko and Howard. #14 isn't too bad.

Honestly, the Bucks have quite a team, if they can stay healthy.

Bogut, Charlie V, Gadzuric, and Brian Skinner is a good big man rotation. They have a lot of solid guards around star Michael Redd. Mo Williams and Charlie Bell are all emerging talents while you got forwards Ruben Patterson and Bobby Simmons who are energy players that can also provide points. Don't forget late aquired Earl Boykins as well..

Bogut/Gadz
Charlie/SKinner
Redd/Patterson/David Noel/Bobby Simmons
Bell/ Redd
Mo Williams/Boykins

I dont know what their depth chart looks like but I would imagine it looked something like this. That team is a better team than the Nets and Magic imo.
I agree with you. They will get Brandon Wright or Al Horford (assuming they don't get Oden or Durant) and move Charlie to SF. Then Redd will go back to SG where he belongs.

PG Mo Williams/Boykins
SG Redd/Bell
SF Viluanueva/Patterson
PF top 3 pick/Skinner
C Bogut/Gadzuric

maybe the "new" Darko pick?

Just re-read this whole thread.

I think post #78 is my favorite. Well, either that one or the one where Pharaoh backs off his Toronto pick and says they won't make the playoffs this year (#58).

maybe the "new" Darko pick?

The Cato pick?

The "Darko-do-over" pick?

The "real" Darko pick?

Darko Redux Pick?

The OFFICIAL WTFDetroit Darko Pick?

The OFFICIAL WTFDetroit Darko Pick?


Hey, you may be onto something.

Maybe we can sponsor this pick?

I want some say into who they take if we do.

How much would Davidson charge? Can we outbid Rock Financial?

Hey, you may be onto something.

Maybe we can sponsor this pick?

I want some say into who they take if we do.

How much would Davidson charge? Can we outbid Rock Financial?

Do they take Alpacas????

Can Orlando get up to #6?

I don't know what the tiebreaks are, but they are 2 games behind Washington (who is currently at 6) with two games to go.

I think Orlando has almost no tiebreakers at all. I will look into it though.

Actually, yes they can. I just counted all the wins and losses for Washington and Orlando against all EC playoff teams. Orlando has a better record there. So, if:

Orlando wins twice AND Washington loses twice AND NJ loses twice (NJ has a better conf record)...

than Orlando is #6, Washington #7 and NJ #8

For us to face NJ, Orlando has to win twice AND NJ lose twice

If Orlando loses once, we face them.

To face Washington, Orlando must win twice and NJ win at least once.

McCosky said they had a tiebreaker over the Nets this morning on Jamie and Brady... but I haven't looked that up at all.

McCosky said they had a tiebreaker over the Nets this morning on Jamie and Brady... but I haven't looked that up at all.


Two-Team Tiebreaker
1. Better record in head-to-head games
2. Higher winning percentage within division (if teams are in the same division)
3. Higher winning percentage in conference games
4. Higher winning percentage against playoff teams in own conference
5. Higher winning percentage against playoff teams in opposite conference
6. Higher point differential between points scored and points allowed

#1 is a tie for all matchups. They all split 2-2 for the 3 teams.
#2 is a tie for Washington and Orlando...NJ is in different division
#3 is NJ (29-21). WAS and ORL would again tie if ORL wins out and WAS loses out
#4 ORL beats WAS if they win out and WAS loses out. ORL does hold this tiebreaker over NJ, but you never get to it because of #3.

If Orlando wins twice, Washington loses twice AND NJ wins once, it's a 3 way:


Three-Team Tiebreaker
1. Best head-to-head winning percentage among all teams tied
2. Highest winning percentage within division (if teams are in the same division)
3. Highest winning percentage in conference games
4. Highest winning percentage against playoff teams in own conference
5. Highest point differential between points scored and points allowed

#1 is again a tie.
#2 doesn't apply
#3 is NJ

McClueless is wrong.

http://espn.go.com/media/pg2/2002/0331/photo/carrey_m.jpg
So, you're saying there's a chance...

To change the subject slightly...

What do you want? Obviously Washington is the easy draw with their injuries. but for that to happen Orlando would win twice. That would risk putting them ahead of the Clippers and Golden State (and of course Washington), dropping us 3 draft positions to draw Washington.

Is 3 draft positions worth drawing Washington? I say no. Take Orlando and pound them.

A new sharpshooter in town for Orlando: JJ. How does this impact them? I think JJ will thrive in an environment with two good bigs (Howard, Darko). I know some of you will say that Darko isn't good, but I think he is. That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it. I think JJ will probably find a way to get some nice open looks. I also look for him to improve his passing skills.
Ouch.

That's one that Atti was hoping that no one would ever see again.

And this is the fucking thread that will never die.

Ok, everyone say "I Told You So" and swat this shit.

Yes, I was wrong.

And, just once I would like someone (other than me) to point out all the trades/signings I mentioned that came to pass.

Two posts in 2 years is apparently more than you can take.

You wear on people Glenn.

Nah, it's just this thread wouldn't die way back when and now I'm back, it's back.

Look at the start date on this fucker!

Jesus Harold Christ - it pre-dates the Darko trade!

You wear on people Glenn.

Yet you still love me.

How odd.

Also, let's keep this thread going.

He doesn't wear on me.

He's why I'm back!

there are actually a lot of reasons, but Glenn obviously needs the ego boost

post #26

That's one that Atti was hoping that no one would ever see again.

I should start acting like the majority of this board and pointing out all the failed predictions that are made on a daily basis. At least I have the balls to predict something.

JJ is actually looking better these days, IMO.

And I agree with you, Atti, we need more bold opinions and less "safe" ones.

It is remarkable that JJ is actually playing, even now guarding Kobe. I never thought I'd see that coming. However, my prediction that he'd be a legit player rather than just a spot role player was off the mark. Ho hum.

I thought he'd be more than a spot role player. I didn't think he'd be a stud by any means, probably not even a starter, but at least a rotation guy that sees the floor every night as the instant offense off the bench.