coaches who have won a title in the last 20 (?) years

riley
popovich
brown
jackson
tomjanovich
daley

that is all.

tomjanovich is probably the closest thing to a 2nd rate coach on that list.

even though most of those guys will probaby be out of the nba in the near future, its hard to imagine flip ever busting through to the elite coaching level.

sucks that we're going to waste another year on this bum.

so all but four teams should fire their coach this year?

probably.

so all but four teams should fire their coach this year?

Well, you never know when you can find a diamond in the rough (new coach). But going with a proven loser (Flip) is a different situation.

I mean seriously, we get Flip, the coach with a history of great regular season teams that choke in the playoffs, and all of a sudden the team full of big game performers turns into playoff chokers? Just a big coincidence? I doubt it. I was willing to give the guy 1 year, but the only thing he did with it was prove his critics right.

all of a sudden the team full of big game performers turns into playoff chokers? Just a big coincidence? I doubt it. I was willing to give the guy 1 year, but the only thing he did with it was prove his critics right.
Give me a hint on what Flip did or didn't do to turn both Ben and Chauncey into "playoff chokers", a hint on "who our new coach would be and what they would do differently than Flip", and then I'll buy the shitcanning of Flip as an option.

Many of the coaches you listed have done a fair bit of opportunistic jockeying to insert themselves into situations with known HOF players that have nada to do with Xs and Os. Riley, Pop, and Jackson, are all quite happy staying away from big rebuilding messes.

[QUOTE=FP22]
Many of the coaches you listed have done a fair bit of opportunistic jockeying to insert themselves into situations with known HOF players that have nada to do with Xs and Os. Riley, Pop, and Jackson, are all quite happy staying away from big rebuilding messes.
to be fair Mxy. As much as i joke on them for it. Truthfully, it takes some very next level coaching to get good/great team over the top. Del Harris, Flip saunders, george karl, mike dunleavy, rick adelman, and many other coaches have constantly had good and even great teams. It takes a better coach to have his team excel beyond the rest of the other great teams going after the title.
All of the coaches you named outcoached their opposing coaches in the playoffs who had teams that people at that time felt were just as good if not better(for example, dunleavy's portland squad that probally should've beat the lakers being coached by phil jackson).

No, getting Larry Brown was big. Losing him was big. And right now we have rick carlisle part 2(i think rick coulda won just as many regular season games with this squad with the same playoff result). Can we still win a title? yes. But, we are going to have to be twice as good as everyone else to offset Flip. and if we lose ben, no we arent going to win a title.

Not sure why you guys are doing this, he's not going anywhere.

But carry on...

Not sure why you guys are doing this, he's not going anywhere.

But carry on...
whether keep him or not is irrelevent to the conversation. its more of a general discussion. Flip is one of many head coaches that aren't in the same league as pat riley, phil jackson, larry brown, chuck daly, greg poppovich, and maybe even a healthy rudy t.

The difference between how Hedgehog and Riley would've coached has nothing to do with on-the-court antics and everything to do with Riley being a past winner that the team/refs/media would listen to, while Hedgehog is a whiny fat fuck who had never coached anywhere before being handed the so-called "most dominant ever" along with a load of volatile players.

Doug Collins, Bob Hill, and Del Harris could've certainly won championships with their respective teams. Collins and Harris were on upward postseason winning trends at the point of their firings. Bob Hill was canned the day Pop thought David Robinson was returning from injury and when that was short lived, Pop ran the team into the ground for a top draft pick. Had Pop known, he certainly could've told Hill to do that.

I think there's great coaches out there that haven't won it all because they choose to. Larry Brown was like that for awhile. Jerry Sloan could have a championship if he hopped to the right spot, but he's loyal to where he is.

Give me a hint on what Flip did or didn't do to turn both Ben and Chauncey into "playoff chokers", a hint on "who our new coach would be and what they would do differently than Flip", and then I'll buy the shitcanning of Flip as an option.


The lax attitude. Ben didn't like it because we went away from focusing in on D, so he went off on his little fit, and could possibly leave the team because of it. (BTW, have you thought of that... Ben Wallace... the ULTIMATE Pistons may leave because of Flip Saunders... it pisses me off more and more just writing it). Chauncey got way too used to that "free-flow", "do what you want" offense. Turned into taking tons of bad shots when he didn't have someone to turn to for guidance.

The Jumpers. I've never seen a team so insistant on taking only jumpers (even when they aren't falling). Flip's "massive" playbook seems to be missing the volume about scoring in the paint. How many "flex-cuts" for 20 footers can you run to death before you realize that those shots are being defended easily? The 2005-2006 Pistons were one of the worst paint-scoring teams of all time.

The truely great coaches (Riley, Jackson, etc) are motivators. X's and O's are secondary to a team that is motivated, hungry, and believe in themselves and their coach when things get tight. Flip doesn't bring any of that.

I'm not saying that every coach that doesn't have a ring out there is bad. I'm saying Flip is. He has had very good teams with great players (league MVPs and proven champions) yet everywhere he goes, teams seem to vanish when it counts. I tend to think that isn't some big coincidence.

The lax attitude. Ben didn't like it because we went away from focusing in on D, so he went off on his little fit, and could possibly leave the team because of it. (BTW, have you thought of that... Ben Wallace... the ULTIMATE Pistons may leave because of Flip Saunders... it pisses me off more and more just writing it).
So that's why Ben and Dumars didn't agree to an extension before Flip ever coached a game?!? I disbelieve. Some combination of Ben and Dumars let this situation fester. Flip was put in the middle of it, forced to treat Ben with kid gloves even as he needed Ben to kickstart the defense.


Chauncey got way too used to that "free-flow", "do what you want" offense. Turned into taking tons of bad shots when he didn't have someone to turn to for guidance.
Toward the end, he missed all the shots -- good, bad, and otherwise -- when he wasn't doing the extra pass (which was often). When Chauncey started biffing layups and missing three FTs in a row and shit.. was that on Flip?


The Jumpers. I've never seen a team so insistant on taking only jumpers (even when they aren't falling). Flip's "massive" playbook seems to be missing the volume about scoring in the paint. How many "flex-cuts" for 20 footers can you run to death before you realize that those shots are being defended easily? The 2005-2006 Pistons were one of the worst paint-scoring teams of all time.
It was also one of the healthiest and won a ton of games spreading the court. Let me know if you think there's not a relationship there. The only person who has good moves in the paint is Rasheed, and Flip let him do whatever he wanted as surely as Larry Brown did (frustrating Memo and Darko, who would get ripped into for that shit).


The truely great coaches (Riley, Jackson, etc) are motivators. X's and O's are secondary to a team that is motivated, hungry, and believe in themselves and their coach when things get tight. Flip doesn't bring any of that.

I'm not saying that every coach that doesn't have a ring out there is bad. I'm saying Flip is. He has had very good teams with great players (league MVPs and proven champions) yet everywhere he goes, teams seem to vanish when it counts. I tend to think that isn't some big coincidence.
He's been in precisely two places -- Minny, whose general management pissed away supplementary pieces to KG by the buttload, and Detroit where he was handed a team that shouldn't have needed Flip to do much more than Xs and Os. I remember how our team had reacted to Larry Brown's "I love you guys" motivational speech. It was like they were suddenly attack by a bubble bath.

If I want to point to coaching mistakes in the playoffs, how he handled his proven talen in the wake of Rasheed's injury and subsequent poor play was boneheaded. That was the cue to start McDyess and bring Rasheed and DD off the bench, not play MoEvans at PF. Also, he didn't play Delk enough to give him a chance to light up.

The difference between how Hedgehog and Riley would've coached has nothing to do with on-the-court antics and everything to do with Riley being a past winner that the team/refs/media would listen to, while Hedgehog is a whiny fat fuck who had never coached anywhere before being handed the so-called "most dominant ever" along with a load of volatile players.

Doug Collins, Bob Hill, and Del Harris could've certainly won championships with their respective teams. Collins and Harris were on upward postseason winning trends at the point of their firings. Bob Hill was canned the day Pop thought David Robinson was returning from injury and when that was short lived, Pop ran the team into the ground for a top draft pick. Had Pop known, he certainly could've told Hill to do that.

I think there's great coaches out there that haven't won it all because they choose to. Larry Brown was like that for awhile. Jerry Sloan could have a championship if he hopped to the right spot, but he's loyal to where he is.
Yea but they are undisputedly great? All of the other coaches i named were questionably good. I include Doug Collins and Del harris to questionably good. I think Phil Jackson and his triangle offense staff took the bulls to the next level , In fact if they kept collins, we might have had 4-5 titles with the bad boys(depending on mckloskey). And Del Harris wasnt getting any team over the hump. He IS the exact equal to Flip but has the edge of more experience. A guy who took teams to great records and nowhere near a title.

After Larry Brown, Chuck Daly, and Jerry Sloan. What coach taking on or sticking with bad teams is a great title contender coach? its a very small select group. Now once again i'm not saying there isnt coaches out there who can defy their own perrenial barrier and break through to a title. but the cards are by far stacked against them when they play against one of the big time coaches running a high caliber team themselves.

Flip was put in the middle of it, forced to treat Ben with kid gloves even as he needed Ben to kickstart the defense.
when did flip ever feel the need to kickstart the defense? wasn't even a point of emphasis. Its kinda lame to say "Well i'm not worried about defense, its Ben's responsibility to kickstart it no matter what i run".

i agree with some of your post. but that part seems a little off. Flip wasn't put in the middle of anything, except maybe billups and ben. who knows though on that one.

What's the point of this thread?

Is it to trash Flip again, by comparing him to championship coaches?

Is it to once again go through the fucking wild rotation patterns?

How about we go back to when Joe was actually looking for a Coach. The only guys who were "rumoured" to be avilable were Nate, Adelman and Flip.

The vast fucking majority went with Flip because "our guys needed offensive freedom". After years of gringing the vast majority felt they would respond in a big way to Flip's offensive style.

And now when he falls short of the fucking Finals the vast majority want to lynch him! LMMFAO

We made the ECF again, in Flip's first season.

With many players carrying serious fucking injuries.

While the refs whistled us every time Lebron touched the ball and every time Wade touched the ball.

And Flip cops all this shit?

Fucking pathetic. Expectations were high, but if you figured anything less than the championship or a 3rd straight Finals appearance was a failure you're a fucking fool.

I know what the organisation fed the media all season - that doesn't make it realistic.

And I'm not saying Flip doesn't have any faults. Obviously he does. The fact he didn't use the bench as much as he should of fucking pissed me off for the entire second half of the season. His man-love for Mo Evans pissed me off even more. Him not using Davis, Cato, Delk, Delfino or Maxiell at various times fucking killed me.

But things could be a lot fucking worse.

Uncle Mxy: Do you know anything about the CBA rules in relation to extensions?

Might want to check Larry Coon's FAQ and you'll understand why Joe didn't offer Ben an extension.

Fucking pathetic. Expectations were high, but if you figured anything less than the championship or a 3rd straight Finals appearance was a failure you're a fucking fool.

Note: Fool does not think that anything less than a 3rd straight Finals appearance was a failure.

Uncle Mxy: Do you know anything about the CBA rules in relation to extensions?

Might want to check Larry Coon's FAQ and you'll understand why Joe didn't offer Ben an extension.
As I understood it (and I thought I posted this somewhere):

Ben wouldn't have been subject to the over-36 rule at that time for the same reason Shaq wasn't (he is, now that he's signing this year). Given his base pay, I think Dumars could've offered up to <digs out calculator and multiplies 7.5 by 1.105 5 times> $51 million for 5 years. That I would've considered reasonable for Ben at the end of 2005, given his probable shelf life for those 5 years and the risk of injury/decline in 2006, in which case he'd have gotten screwed.

What's the point of this thread?

Is it to trash Flip again, by comparing him to championship coaches?

Is it to once again go through the fucking wild rotation patterns?

How about we go back to when Joe was actually looking for a Coach. The only guys who were "rumoured" to be avilable were Nate, Adelman and Flip.

The vast fucking majority went with Flip because "our guys needed offensive freedom". After years of gringing the vast majority felt they would respond in a big way to Flip's offensive style.

And now when he falls short of the fucking Finals the vast majority want to lynch him! LMMFAO

We made the ECF again, in Flip's first season.

With many players carrying serious fucking injuries.

While the refs whistled us every time Lebron touched the ball and every time Wade touched the ball.

And Flip cops all this shit?

Fucking pathetic. Expectations were high, but if you figured anything less than the championship or a 3rd straight Finals appearance was a failure you're a fucking fool.

I know what the organisation fed the media all season - that doesn't make it realistic.

And I'm not saying Flip doesn't have any faults. Obviously he does. The fact he didn't use the bench as much as he should of fucking pissed me off for the entire second half of the season. His man-love for Mo Evans pissed me off even more. Him not using Davis, Cato, Delk, Delfino or Maxiell at various times fucking killed me.

But things could be a lot fucking worse.

Uncle Mxy: Do you know anything about the CBA rules in relation to extensions?

Might want to check Larry Coon's FAQ and you'll understand why Joe didn't offer Ben an extension.

Pharoah, you're my hero!

Explain that math again? Pretend I know nothing of the CBA.

(Basically: can you post Ben's salary that you are multiplying and the Coon FAQ link where it mentions extensions?)

Thanks.

I understand the reasons for the extension, but maybe my CBA knowledge is off a little.

I thought the most Joe could offer was 150% of Ben's last salary? Might be confusing that figure with the Bird Rights thing.

Oh, and if it is 150%, isn't Ben's salary $6,500,000?

Starting salary would be $9,750,000 in the first season of his extension.

I believe Joe felt that was a little low (now this all goes out the fucking window if my 150% thing is wrong or if Ben actually gets more coinage)

Thanks Atti.

We need more people like you.

While I've got you I just thought I'd let you know that you can help support my travelling ministry by sending a small donation to:

Pharaoh@fuckthosefuckers.com.au

I used to preach to the converted, but the converted went AWOL sometime in early June. My ministry is trying to locate and return those poor lost souls to their rightful home.

P. Here's the Coon's link (http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#51)


For all other extensions, the salary in the first year of the extension is limited to 110.5% of the salary in the last year of the existing contract. However, it also can't exceed the maximum salary the player can receive if he were to sign a new contract that year as a free agent

Of course, this is the most recent CBA, wouldn't Ben's extention (should he have gotten it) been under the old CBA rules. (NOTE: I might be off track with the conversation)

The vast fucking majority went with Flip because "our guys needed offensive freedom". After years of gringing the vast majority felt they would respond in a big way to Flip's offensive styl
and those who did have no reason to down him. i wasn't in that group though. i was in the "worried about our defense suffering under Flip" camp from the jump all by my lonesome. And i got stuck in constant disputes for most of the offseason last year for expressing my concern. Flip unfortunately turned out how I expected. I never expected people to try and spin it into a "Flip isnt that bad" thing. muthafuckas can bitch about irrlevent darko and i can't mash Flip a little bit. this blows donkey balls! I'm outta here![smilie=running.gif]

[smilie=running.gif] walking back in. you did make some good points though Phar.

110.5%? Damn, I was way off.

Which means his salary would be lower than I thought!

What did Ben get this season then? Is that $6,500,000 correct or his salary a lot higher?

(what about incentives?)

Fool - I don't think the new CBA differs greatly from the previous one when it comes to extensions. Really appreciate you posting the link.

Gutz, that wasn't directed at you in ANY way at all.

In fact, if memory serves you're the ONLY fucker that can rant on Flip.

Everyone else supported Flip's hiring. And then turned around and whined about his performance as our Coach despite us winning 60+ games and making the ECF.

Fuck! From the state of this forum one would assume many people bet their lives on us making the Finals. They turned on Flipper far too quickly IMO.

I was initially pissed, but I've settled down.

What's the point of this thread?

Is it to trash Flip again, by comparing him to championship coaches?

Is it to once again go through the fucking wild rotation patterns?

How about we go back to when Joe was actually looking for a Coach. The only guys who were "rumoured" to be avilable were Nate, Adelman and Flip.

The vast fucking majority went with Flip because "our guys needed offensive freedom". After years of gringing the vast majority felt they would respond in a big way to Flip's offensive style.

And now when he falls short of the fucking Finals the vast majority want to lynch him! LMMFAO

We made the ECF again, in Flip's first season.

With many players carrying serious fucking injuries.

While the refs whistled us every time Lebron touched the ball and every time Wade touched the ball.

And Flip cops all this shit?

Fucking pathetic. Expectations were high, but if you figured anything less than the championship or a 3rd straight Finals appearance was a failure you're a fucking fool.

I know what the organisation fed the media all season - that doesn't make it realistic.

And I'm not saying Flip doesn't have any faults. Obviously he does. The fact he didn't use the bench as much as he should of fucking pissed me off for the entire second half of the season. His man-love for Mo Evans pissed me off even more. Him not using Davis, Cato, Delk, Delfino or Maxiell at various times fucking killed me.

But things could be a lot fucking worse.

Uncle Mxy: Do you know anything about the CBA rules in relation to extensions?

Might want to check Larry Coon's FAQ and you'll understand why Joe didn't offer Ben an extension.

so because i was fine with flip's hiring i cant be pissed now?

what if i was vehemently against the larry brown firing? where does that fall into your rule book?

what if i said, during training camp, that i was concerned about the quotes coming out that the "defense will take care of itself".

and then the constant bitching during the regular season about our rebounding falling off, our refusal to attack the basket, the overreliance of our starters.

i gave up bitching about flip after we blew out san ann for the second time--falsely believing he knew how to get this team going when he needed to.

but he didnt.

and its not that we lost in the ECF to the eventual champ--that would be fine.

its that we got blown out by a very mediocre (relatively) miami team because they understood what playoff basketball was and we didnt. its that a not too good cleveland team took us to 7.

but because i wasnt opposed to flip's hiring innitially, i guess i might as well just gleefully wait till next year so the bulls can toss our asses out in the first round.

110.5%? Damn, I was way off.

Which means his salary would be lower than I thought!

What did Ben get this season then? Is that $6,500,000 correct or his salary a lot higher?
I could've sworn it was $7.5 million. Per Hoopshype, it's $7.35 million. Yeah. it's a bit low per-year, but for 5 years it worked out fine unless Ben thought he'd be playing as a $10+ million All-Star at age 37, and he risked injury or severe decline for his contract year. When I'd calculated this initially, it was under the old CBA which gave 12.5% raises, but I knew Joe could offer $50+ million for 5 years at the time. I recall it seemed to work out as long as he didn't want a long max contract, which he wasn't quite worth even in his prime because of his lack of O. The lack of extension might've ultimately had to do with the deal that he was under with his original agent who he fired, but it was never clear at the time. Dumars said "we will deal with Ben next season" and that's all I ever heard about it.

sorry but some of us were complaining about Flip, especially defense and jumpers-all-the-time offense since mid-season.

B Diddy/Metr0man and anyone else that is bitching about Flip:

You can complain all you like but I do think some people have gone too far.

How many different threads do we need about 'Flip Fucked Up"?

This thread is all about firing Flip, which has been discussed all over this forum for weeks.

Why the need for a new thread? To compare a Coach who has never won a title with a bunch of guys who have? Um, there is no comparison and therefore the thread is pointless.

It's just another bitch session about Flip. I am tired of hearing about how he fucked up and how he should be fired because it's pointless to focus on that.

I would prefer we acknowledge our problems and then discuss ways to fix them.

Lack of dribble penetration - how do we fix it?

Need quality depth - how do we do that with just our exceptions?

What about our youth - are they any good?

And so on.

I think it's a pretty safe bet Flip isn't getting fired, so complaining about that isn't gonna get us anywhere.

Mxy: What would be the first year salary if Ben signed an extension?

I understand that the total looks acceptable, but maybe the first year was rather low (less than $10mil?) and that's why the extension was never done?

It'd have been between $8-9 million -- something like that. But given Ben's probable shelf life, the dollars and sense probably work out in his favor. If I read things correctly, under the new over-36 specifications that he's subject to this year that he wasn't last year, the only way that he comes out ahead now rather than taking $51 million for 5 years is:

1) If some team gives him a 4 year $50+ million deal, and
2) He can still play well enough to get better than the minimum at age 37

And that's only after taking a risk of getting injured this year and potentially ending up with squat. Fortunately didn't happen, but there's no reason to think that it couldn't have happened, especially with the bone spurs in his feet at the time.

In other words, I think JD could've offered him a good deal. Whether he did or not, I don't know. But I don't think it was unreasonable for both sides. Of course, I'm not an NBA millionaire. :)

Winding this back to Flip, Flip just came from a situation with Spree on the last year of his contract after having rejected something very reasonable, and Spree imploded and took Minny and Flip's job along with it. So do we go blame Flip for being put in that mess again with an unsigned Ben that (I speculate) could've been reasonably signed?

I have no clue where to put this so its going here.

http://www.metronews.ca/uploadedImages/web_column_york.jpg From Metro News in Canada
http://www.metronews.ca/column_york_report.asp?id=17022&cid=10223 (http://www.metronews.ca/column_york_report.asp?id=17022&cid=10223)



Raptors finally on the right track
Here are a couple of statements I haven’t been able to honestly make for many years:

1.) Canada’s NBA franchise is in good shape;

2.) Decent, respectable players actually want to come here and play for it.

And, unlike play-by-play announcer and talk-show host Chuck Swirsky, I don’t work for the Raptors so I can make these statements with complete objectivity, devoid of suspected personal agendas.

The Raptors, folks, should be for real next season and anything less than a playoff berth will be a serious underachievement.

Why do I say all this?

For starters, the Raptors’ new general manager, Bryan Colangelo, already has delivered, trading this week for a bona fide centre in Rasho Nesterovic. Along with Chris Bosh and Charlie Villenueva, the 7-footer gives Toronto three established scorers and rebounders up front.

It’ll get better for the Raptors next week, too, when I suspect Colangelo will trade the No. 1 pick in Wednesday’s draft for another recognizable player or two. And then there'll be free agents. Star guards such as Sam Cassell, Jason Terry and Brevin Knight actually have let it be known they wouldn’t mind joining the Raptors. And Bosh is saying he’ll soon re-sign for six years.

Even top draft prospects say they like the Raptors’ direction. LaMarcus Aldridge, for instance. He’s Bosh’s pal and, if Colangelo rejects trade offers, the 6-foot-11 forward could be his first pick.

Aldridge would like that considerably better than, say, playing for the Bulls. The Chicago brass wined and dined him the other day, but Bulls coach Scott Skiles frightened the spit out of the kid by spending the first 10 minutes of their dinner doing nothing but staring at him.

“It scared me,” Aldridge said. “I hope I play in Toronto.”

90% of the Pistons problems in the playoffs were caused by the players, and the refs/superstars they played against.

Flip could've done some different things, but as has been mentioned ad nauseum, how do you blame the coach for, say, game 6 against Miami? Did Flip coach Miami to hit EVERY SHOT that ENTIRE GAME, even with hands in their faces? Did Flip coach Detroit to miss EVERY SHOT in that ENTIRE GAME, even when WIDE OPEN and WITHIN 15 feet, and even UNCONTESTED LAYUPS?

Obviously not.

One of the only legitimate gripes about Flip from the playoffs is really more perception than anything else.

He carries himself in this nervous manner. He is fidgety, twitchy, and appears unsure of himself and his own abilities out there.

Now, if the players actually feed off that stuff, and take the demeanor of the coach, then he's got to go, because he's probably the worst in the history of the league when it comes to his body language.

But if we agree that the players don't get nervous and miss shots just because Flip can't stop biting his lip, then I'd say there's no reason to replace him.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060623/SPORTS21/606230418/1051/SPORTS03


Pistons guard Chauncey Billups, interviewed on WDFN, on his most recent coaches:

• On Flip Saunders: "I'm a Flip fan. Of course, he could have done some things different, as we could have as players. One thing, if we had played our bench more ... but since we didn't, we had guys a little worn down, tired. That was difficult. That really ain't his fault either. We were trying to get the best record in the league. That's what came back and did us in."

• On the Knicks firing Larry Brown: "I think it's best for both worlds, I guess. I am sure Larry doesn't need the stress anymore. ... As far as me, I love Larry for what he did for my game and what he did for us. Would I play for him again? I don't know. ... I can play for anybody."

"We were trying to get the best record in the league. That's what came back and did us in."


AKA "Prickus Carlisious" Disease

The fact our bench sucked is completely on Joe. He had several chances to upgrade the bench and didn't.

Why did we split the MLE on Davis and Evans?

We should have brought back Campbell for a season at the minimum and used the MLE on a SG/SF last off-season.

What about trading Darko + Arroyo for Cato + a pick? Why the fuck did we need Cato?

And whoever decided we needed homecourt was fucking stupid.

If Sheed doesn't leave Horry open we likely win the title in 6, on the Spurs' floor.

And if we're so fucking good why are we using the "if we play a G7 we get to play it at home" excuse?

Win the fucking series in 4 games, bitch!

Our team should eliminate every team in 6 games or less IMO. And if you have to go to G7 then chances are you're a lazy motherfucker who decided not to turn up once in each series.

But yeah, fuck Flip! Too much offensive freedom, too many regular season wins, nervous as fuck and not enough developing of our young guys!

Burn him.

IMO we had all the players we needed to get it done. flip just didn't use them. he let a great talent like delfino waste away on the bench. he might be our only guy who can break down a D and get to the rim- that skill would've come in handy big time.

but instead, flip allowed and encouraged this to be STRICTLY a jumpshooting team ALL YEAR LONG. i said all year that would get us killed in the playoffs. and of course it did.

flip also tinkered with one of the best defenses of alltime. he had us playing way too much zone. the result? our guys looked unsure of their assignments and responsibilities out there.

they didn't find people to box out like they would have if playing the man-to-man they were so accustomed to. as a result, we gave up a ton of offensive rebounds and did not defend agressively like we used to; this is often what happens with zone D. players with the mindset of our guys should NEVER be playing in a zone IMO.

we did not defend, switch, or box out like we used to this year. as a result we got torched in the playoffs.

i'm not going to make flip the scapegoat for all our shortcomings. our players simply did not play with the necessary intensity of focus in the playoffs.

but a lot of that falls at the feet of the coach let's not forget. it's his job to motivate the guys and make sure they're put in positions to be successful. an offense that solely relies on jumpshots doesn't provide that opportunity come playoff time.

and again, he had ample opportunities to develop some guys on the bench and failed to do so. that killed us come playoff time.

JMO

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060623/SPORTS21/606230418/1051/SPORTS03


Pistons guard Chauncey Billups, interviewed on WDFN, on his most recent coaches:

• On Flip Saunders: "I'm a Flip fan. Of course, he could have done some things different, as we could have as players. One thing, if we had played our bench more ... but since we didn't, we had guys a little worn down, tired. That was difficult. That really ain't his fault either. We were trying to get the best record in the league. That's what came back and did us in."

• On the Knicks firing Larry Brown: "I think it's best for both worlds, I guess. I am sure Larry doesn't need the stress anymore. ... As far as me, I love Larry for what he did for my game and what he did for us. Would I play for him again? I don't know. ... I can play for anybody."
i love cbill as a player in all, but we should never pick coaches he likes. NEVER EVER.

We should have brought back Campbell for a season at the minimum and used the MLE on a SG/SF last off-season.

Elden retired, remember?

Yes, I remember.

I guess he couldn't have played the vital roles Dale Davis and Kelvin Cato played last season.

Hell, I guarantee he couldn't have done the fine job both those guys did in the post-season.

There is no way on this or any other planet that Elden Campbell could have played one last season.

NONE!