...he has already said at his press conference today that Flip Saunders WILL remain as coach of the Pistons, and his priority is to add scoring punch to the bench.

He said he thinks flip has a much better feel for the team now, and who can and can't handle heavy minutes. He's pleased with the job Flip saunders did this year, and he expects him to do better next year.

He said however, that he WILL not tolerate players using fatigue as an excuse.

He said he wants to keep the starting 5 intact, but he will not overpay for ben wallace.

More to come at 4:05.

Joe wants 8 significant guys, not 6 (like it is now)

He'll entertain offers, but he's not looking to trade any of the "key guys".

"We have to get into the paint".

listening now....

there could be a nuclear bomb heading to michigan and Joe D could convince me everything would be ok.....long live Joe Dumars.

He's Bill Davidson's Karl Rove.

Whoa.

Joe says he's disappointed that Delfino didn't get playing time and he let Flip know that he's upset about that.

Full recap:

-Joe thinks "we got away from who were were" in the playoffs. He said he wasnt referring to defensive mentality, he was referring to the nasty attitude and playing with a chip on the shoulder.

-He said this team needs its "edge" back, or he doesnt think this team can win another title.

-He said he cant continue to depend on the same guys every year. You must add hungry players in order to keep winning.

-He said he would entertain offers for his top 6, but he wont be actively looking to trade. He said he'd rather have a "top 8" rather thana top 6.

-adding inside scoring is a MUST, wether it be a slasher or a post player.

-He wants other bench players to take some defensive focus off McDyess.

-He said Flip understands better how it works in this organization than he did a year ago, specifically winning in the regular season.

-Joe said that you do not win 64 games and reach the ECF with a team whose window is closing. He still beleives in the core group's ability to win a title.

-He said that he's not in any hurry to move Billups, Rip and tay, three guys that he believes that are in their primes. He side-stepped around addressing Ben and Sheed.

-He said that he will make a "fair"offer to ben, but he cant say any specifics until july 1. He said he's "open" to options with ben, no matter what direction he wants to go in his career. He will do what's right for ben, but also having an eye to what's right for the team.

-Asked if he's thought about scenarios for ben leaving: "Of course. I want Ben back, and Ben says he wants to come back, but I've heard that talk before."

-Joe says in negotiations with a free agent, he will never bring up a player's weaknesses to a player or his agent. Joe said he's been in that position before as a player, and he'll never forget it. The only reason he will give when asked why he's not offering more is, "because its fair."

-Carlos Delfino WILL be a big part in this team's future. He's told flip "in no uncertain terms" that he expects Delfino to be a big part of this team. He said he was extremely disappointed Delfino did not play this year.

-Amir Johnson will hopefully be on the active roster next year. "He's crazy athetic, 6'9", plays above the rim, and has a great feel for the game. We want to start getting him on the floor."

I get the feeling Mo Evans will be gone next year. Joe is determined not to let Delfino go like he did Darko.

Thanks for the heads up and the recap, Kstat.

thanks so much for the recap, Kstat. i really wanted to record it, but the online streaming was crappy and i missed part of the end. i'll give it a whirl during talk soup. hopefully it's better then.

it's funny because i totally forgot about Amir Johnson when we we've been talking about the Pistons getting that slasher/rim-attacker. in the summer league, wasn't that his whole game? crazy athleticism and finishing? at 6'9", he's certainly got the size to do it. he's definitely got the hops to finish strong....remember his windmill dunk during the regular season and his HS dunk contest?

very nice to hear Joe D endorse Delfino to Flip.

Thanks for the synopsis TK.

I think Dumars telling Flip he wasn't happy with DelFino's minutes is an old management trick meant to stroke DelFino. "Hey Flip I am gonna tell everyone I beat you up on DelFino's minutes that way DelFino won't bug me about trading him" "He doesn't make enough money to bring back enough greater in value so we need to keep the kid's spirit up and give him a shot next year ok"

Dumars comments on Ben are tepid at best and sound nothing like his comments when Sheed's contract was up. Dumars is already tempering expectations to the public on Ben just in case things don't work out.

I think it's 50/50 right now if Ben is going to be back where as 4 weeks ago it was about a mortal lock.

for some reason i do believe that Joe D wants Delfino in the mix next season. we'll see if Joe D was being genuine by what happens to Mo Evans in the off-season. if Mo isn't gone, we need to trade Delfino, because it's pointless to let him rot on the bench.

i really like Joe D's talk about a top 8, rather than a top 6.

well, im hoping this is a smokescreen. i wouldnt expect him to come out and say he's looking to move sheed. its just i think he'll settle on bringing this team back in full--banking on them getting their 'edge' back (good luck).

if he's serious about adding another legit contributor, and demanding delfino get playing time, i guess i'd be happy enough. too bad he didnt think of this last year...

but i really dont like the idea of banking on sheed's attitude. i already said im not rooting for this team as long as sheed is here. he's going to have to do alot to change that.

i already said im not rooting for this team as long as sheed is here. he's going to have to do alot to change that.

Really? your that pissed at Sheed where you are no longer rooting for the Pistons?

i agree gecko, the CV piece by mccosky and now this sound like joe's already preparing for the blowback of plan B.

yea. fuck sheed. watching him give up easy fast break points on defense in game 6 sealed the deal. he pretty much played like he was neutered out there. im not rooting for a guy that cares less than i do.

i'd much rather watch grant hill era pistons than sheed waiting around for bill davidson to "CTC".

^I must say that I saw far too many layups that could have been prevented (by block or foul) by Sheed. Lots of them looked like he could easily block them too. I doubt his ankle was the sole reason for that too.

Thanks for the recap Kstat. Hopefully Joe D will take care of all this in house stuff.

i'd much rather watch grant hill era pistons than sheed waiting around for bill davidson to "CTC".


Fuck Bill Davidson. His CTP (cut the payroll) shit has destryoed this teams depth the last two years. If we don't use the MLE this off-season I'll probably quit being a Piston because I'm not going to support an owner that cares more about avoiding the luxury tax than winning titles.

yea. fuck sheed. watching him give up easy fast break points on defense in game 6 sealed the deal. he pretty much played like he was neutered out there. im not rooting for a guy that cares less than i do.

i'd much rather watch grant hill era pistons than sheed waiting around for bill davidson to "CTC".

McCoskey this morning maintained again that Sheed's injury was worse than what we think. I have no idea what to believe. On one hand Sheed seemed to be getting up and down the floor fine but on the other McCoskey the great doctor he is says Sheed was at 70%. I am confused by the lack of effort from just about everyone.

if he was too hurt to play, he shouldnt have been out there. otherwise, he should have been out there and actually hustling.

i dont even care if he doesnt go in the post. but not trying on defense makes him worthless. i'd like to see, by the numbers, how many charges he drew in the playoffs. im guessing he had by far the least of the top 7. and whatever ones he did draw, he probably did so inadvertantly while he was trying to get out of the way.


and i'm not too far off of wrath of diddy either. how bill davidson is considered one of the best owners in the league is beyond me. greedy ass hole. its only a matter of time till we find out what a bad person ben wallace is...

Naitve thinking. SHeed at %70 was still better than anyone else we had to try.

And if Davidson was truly cheap, he Larry Brown would never have been hired, or fired for that matter. The Palace would never have been built, and it would have been re-named to some stupid corporate name if money was all he cared about.

Pistons tickets would also not be cheaper than half the teams in the NBA.

im pretty sure maxiel could have made antwan walker look like an all-star, also.

im surprised anyone would defend sheed after the miami series. what did he contribute? he jacked up alot of bad shots, shot a horrible percentage, and absolutely dogged it on defense. what does it take for a guy to catch some blame?

He sucked royally, but to say "if he was hurt he shouldnt have been playing" is naive. THat's not sheed's call, it's the coach's call.

I'm hardly sheed's biggest fan, but there's a point where the bashing becomes too much.

if he was too hurt to play, he shouldnt have been out there. otherwise, he should have been out there and actually hustling.


Then the fans and his teammates would have been on him for being soft. We live and die by these guys. This year, we died. Hopefully next season we'll have someone there (Max/Amir?) who could step in if an injury happens to a PF.

I like what Joe's getting at though. Sounds like he really wants some fresh blood in there to mix things up. Delfino, Amir, hopefully Max, and a free agent or two.

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/audio/index.ssf?/pistons/audio/audio03.html

ok so who we gonna add so we have 8 legit guys? Claxton and Bonzi? i have no idea how to get them with just the MLE available but i like these guys...if we use the MLE and Bens resigns we'll hit the luxury tax for sure...lets see if that really happens

the problem is is that you guys are assuming sheed's crappy play is due to his ankle. i've never heard of a bum ankle that lets you move arround fine but prevents you from playing with effort.

talk about book ends: pistons first bad boys finals run began after zeke's game where he scored 25 on an absolutely blown out ankle in one of the guttiest performances of all time.

second bad boys final run ends after sheeds miami performance on a 'bum ankle' in one of the most gutless performances of all time.

the problem is is that you guys are assuming sheed's crappy play is due to his ankle. i've never heard of a bum ankle that lets you move arround fine but prevents you from playing with effort.


Move around fine? Which games were you watching? He looked flat-out gimpy out there. Just look at his numbers as the playoffs went on. Each series in almost every category it got worse and worse.

And if you're expecting Sheed to be Zeke-esque with the injury, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. It isn't in Sheed's nature to dominate a game by himself anyways. Have him injured and it can take him out of the series. Good luck finding someone we can get in return for Sheed that is better.

I don't hear you talking about Chauncey. Mr. MVP with a clean bill of health, and he still plays like shit for the final 2 series of the season. Or how about Rip going from this dominant, effecient scorer to shooting 37% in the biggest series of the year. Or Ben putting up a "dominant" 6 & 9 with 0.6 blocks and ~20% FT shooting.''

Everyone played like shit with the exception of Tayshaun (who also couldn't muster up a decent game on the road).

defend him all you want. sheed completely dogged it this year. he was a joke. looks to me like hes happy with his 1 ring and his fat new contract. hes not going to change next year, its only getting worse. miami couldnt wait to play us this year. next year, theres blood in the water. lebron cant wait. neither can the bulls. im sure sheed will talk about how we'll blow by them, but he wont do shit to contribute.

imo, hes become an embarrassment. go to a game and watch him. the tv camera's dont even begin to tell you how much he jaws at the refs. its non stop.

the day he came to the pistons, the 'going to work' days were pretty much over. i dont see what we have to gain by waiting till rock bottom.

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/audio/index.ssf?/pistons/audio/audio03.html

ok so who we gonna add so we have 8 legit guys? Claxton and Bonzi? i have no idea how to get them with just the MLE available but i like these guys...if we use the MLE and Bens resigns we'll hit the luxury tax for sure...lets see if that really happens

Either count Delfino and add Claxton, or by trading Sheed/Ben for 2 or 3 guys.

all those other guys sucked, but we cant trade the whole team, and i wouldnt be interested in trading guys because they had a bad playoffs (reactionary), i'd trade guys because they dogged it this year and theyll dog it next year.

i already said im not rooting for this team as long as sheed is here. he's going to have to do alot to change that.

Really? your that pissed at Sheed where you are no longer rooting for the Pistons?
damn if i can root for this team with Flip at the helm and mo evans on the roster. its pretty shitty that he can lay out the trade sheed or else stance.

I'm glad he seems aware that INSIDE scoring is a priority, and that he spoke up about Delfino.

I think its critical that the WHOLE MLE be spent on one SOLID player who can give us what Dice gives us, but for other positions.

as far as Sheed goes, until he starts scoring in the post and paint again he can go fuck himself. Time to be a POWER FORWARD again with a bit of versatility when we need it instead of being a 2 GUARD who occasionally posts up.

i like what joe had to say, and its pretty aligned with what i was thinking anyway. i would think that if they HAD a chip on their shoulder throughout the season, that chip will be a few 2x4s and a boulder next season. maybe at the start of training camp next year there should be a pacifier hanging in sheeds locker, a lunchbox and hardhat in bens locker, a dead (taxidermied of course) mongoose in chaunceys, a couple of fox heads in rips locker (compliments of his pimp coat of course), and maybe a burger king crown in princes locker, and a minature merry-go-round on flips desk so he can understand rotation. they come in and see that and get the idea maybe. i went easy on prince because he did a good job in the playoffs for the most part, but if he wants that to be a real crown he has the ability to be more dominant. thats my 2c, and i believe in joe.

as far as Sheed goes, until he starts scoring in the post and paint again he can go fuck himself. Time to be a POWER FORWARD again with a bit of versatility when we need it instead of being a 2 GUARD who occasionally posts up.
call his number in the post more often than jump shot setups. i mean seriously, there was a thread about all these pick and pops Flip and Cbill were calling and people wouldnt care much because they were going in. Now we're scapegoating that shit on sheed when we all were in suckage outside. I feel Billups fucked up quite a bit too by not going to the hole and breaking down the defense for easier points as much as he should. Rip was pretty wack. and Dyess passed up shots in the paint way too often. all of the sudden Sheed was our only option in the paint? points in the paint are more than post ups. its a lack of aggressiveness on everybody's part. Even Rasheed making some shots in the post consistently wouldn't have got us wins. We were getting killed in that department as a team. Because we as a team just would not emphasize getting the type of shots off that would increase that number as a priority.
if we as a team were emphasizing easier shots and a more aggressive to the basket offense, Delfino might have got the chance to be more of a factor. And I'm sure Dumars is serious about wanting him to play. Its no secret that he and Flip never agreed on that all year. But its still up to Flip. Miami didnt just kill us in the paint because of Shaq. Its the pentration of Wade, williams, and even walker that kept them in the drivers seat. we werent as a team getting to the rack like them. the rules are as soft as biscuit dough. so why are we being soft about attacking teams? All acting like sheed was the paint points savior is asinine and ignorant to the fact that outside of tayshaun, NO ONE WAS ATTACKING THE BASKET CONSISTENTLY. the couple of games we came close to that oddly enough are the games we won. and we didnt shoot great in the game 5 win. but it was a more aggressive team out there.

Either way Sheed has forsaken us and the team was playing great. he's the one who dragged us down. we dont even need new free agents. we'll be great once we dump sheed. it was him that made everything bad happen. he told Flip and chauncy they were dead if they put him in the post. he made ben miss free throws and talked Rip into playing mediocre at best. Sheed=Antichrist. [smilie=zzz.gif]

[smilie=iagree.gif]

Gutz Gatzu,

Did you see Chauncey and Rip trying to finish in the paint? That shit ended up swatted back to half-court. Chauncey can't finish for shit around the rim (I'm still laughing at the layup he missed in game 7, because I knew it was going to happen), and Rip seems to love serving them right up for Zo and Shaq to stuff back in his face.

The simple fact is that we don't have a dominant 1-on-1 scorer. A guy who can break down the D and finish at the rim. Rip can't break down the D, and Chauncey can't finish at the rim. That's why we needed to run more post ups for Tayshaun and Rasheed. Then get Rip, Tayshaun, (Delfino?) making cuts to the rim off those post ups. That's how we're gonna get our perimeter players scoring in the paint. You have to at least distract the D first, because we don't have a D Wade, Lebron, etc that can just break his own man down and finish or get to the line.

FP22, they dont have to shoot it everytime. the point is that it breaks down the defense. Did you see our two wins? they both came from pentration. whether they dump it off or pull up for a mid range jumper. they can get points in the paint. and no i dont really want a wannabe dwayne wade or lebron in there. i'll take a sure thing scorer like bonzi wells. but no need to reach for someone to emulate any miami player.

In part of Sheed's defense, Flip's offensive system made his first option a perimeter shot, since I can safely say that our bread and butter offense this year was the pick & pop with Chauncey/Sheed, instead of in the past, curls for Rip/Tay. Even after the lack of inside scoring started to bite us in the ass late in the Miami series, it seems like in Flip's system the adjustments were the pick & pop, then have Sheed come down give a screen for one of the swingman, and then FINALLY establish post posistion.... IMO a little complex just to get the ball in the post (even at times he was in there he didn't necessarily get the ball).

Don't get me wrong, he was absent for most of the playoffs after he got gimped (except for Cavs Game 6 2nd half where most of the offense went through him) but we just couldn't get him going. His injury DID affect his game (just watch him pull a defensive rebound and land, his first step back to offense after giving the ball to Chauncey always looked high and hurting) but after his Cavs Game 6 performance I saw no excuses. He had a better excuse back 2004 with him and plantar facitis (sp?).

I still think he's a Top 5 PF in this league when he wants to be, but that's keyword and I'm not dismissing his shitty effort at all. If he needs to go, that's fine, but honestly he CAN be a Tim Duncan w/ a 3-pt shot. It just did vanish after Game 2 of the Cavs series and was spotty after that, for whatever reason that is.

__________________________________________________ __________

Anyway, glad to hear Joe D's comments. If he addresses them is another thing.

and Rip seems to love serving them right up for Zo and Shaq to stuff back in his face.

God, that was maddening. Maybe in the offseason we can teach the 6'-7" Rip Hamilton to dunk the fucking basketball. I would love to see something out of him other than finesse.

Also, my thought on Amir is that he could easily be the slasher they're looking for, but he needs to be developed. In order for him to develop, he needs game time, and he probably won't get it in a Piston uniform. That's the strange thing about the Pistons - the starting 5 is so concrete that there's no way a younger player like Amir can come in and take his licks and get better. Shit, even Darko looked better once he got some regular PT. I'd love if Amir became the next McGrady, but I don't see it happening while he's a Piston.

I'm going to go for some objectivity on the sheed issue.

He didn't "dog it" during the season. He came into camp in shape and ready. His play was as much a reason for 64 wins as anyone else's. Say what you will about the playoffs but he delivered what the team needed from him in the regular season.

Zeke had mental toughness on a legendary level in the company of guys like Jordan. His play over that bad ankle still shows up on espn classic because it is the rare exception, not the standard that most players, even great players, reach.

Injuries aren't an "excuse" but they are a fact of life that can't simply be ignored or wished away when looking at why the team fell short. I don't believe in conincidences and the team's fortunes started circling the drain as soon as Sheed rolled his ankle and they never recovered. To me, it serves as a reminder just how heavily they rely on Sheed to make the difference between good team and championship team. Something easy to take for granted after a couple of years but very conspicuous in its absence.

He definitely doesn't get a free pass. I think he could have and should have played better in spite of the injury. Some of what I saw in the last eleven games looked as much like mental breakdown as physical. Would it have been enough if he managed to squeeze out a little extra to kick it up from 70% to say 80-85? Probably. Cleveland was not that good and a little bit more would've made for a shorter series which may have prevented the cracks in sheed's game from propagating across the entire team.

My bottom line is that a healthy sheed is still too important to this team to entertain any kind of "dump sheed" fantasies no matter how much my nuts still hurt from the kick miami put in them. To maintain the level they're at now, they would need to get a serious talent in return for him. Not a draft pick, not a servicable guy but a two-way guy in the top ten talent-wise for the position. Anything less would be a gesture of surrender.

I agree that it looks like many have forget how non-championship caliber this very team was pre-Rasheed. I'm happy that Dumars' basic message is one of addition and not subtraction.

Naitve thinking. SHeed at %70 was still better than anyone else we had to try.

And if Davidson was truly cheap, he Larry Brown would never have been hired, or fired for that matter. The Palace would never have been built, and it would have been re-named to some stupid corporate name if money was all he cared about.

Pistons tickets would also not be cheaper than half the teams in the NBA.

1. Larry Brown brought attention and extra revenue, more than his 5 mil contract more than likely...hiring him was smart, not cheap, it kept his "business" in the news a helluva lot more frequently than Carlisle for example.

2. He bought Larry out at a discounted rate, using just some of the millions he's profited over the last few years...again, he loses nothing.

3. The smartest thing he did was pay for a stadium, he owes no one anything and he's able to take all the loot, again being smart, not cheap. This is what most owners would do if they could afford to take the hit.

4. The tickets USED to be cheaper than half the NBA, but after spending $180
bucks to sit at the TOP of section 123, that is certainly no longer the case.

At any rate, none of those points really defend him as not being cheap, just business saavy. However, at some point, he's going to have to spend some bucks and go over the lux tax and take a small loss to get better results. The question is, will he pull out the loot when that's the case. Up to this point, I'm not sure.

as far as Sheed goes, until he starts scoring in the post and paint again he can go fuck himself. Time to be a POWER FORWARD again with a bit of versatility when we need it instead of being a 2 GUARD who occasionally posts up.
call his number in the post more often than jump shot setups. i mean seriously, there was a thread about all these pick and pops Flip and Cbill were calling and people wouldnt care much because they were going in. Now we're scapegoating that shit on sheed when we all were in suckage outside. I feel Billups fucked up quite a bit too by not going to the hole and breaking down the defense for easier points as much as he should. Rip was pretty wack. and Dyess passed up shots in the paint way too often. all of the sudden Sheed was our only option in the paint? points in the paint are more than post ups. its a lack of aggressiveness on everybody's part. Even Rasheed making some shots in the post consistently wouldn't have got us wins. We were getting killed in that department as a team. Because we as a team just would not emphasize getting the type of shots off that would increase that number as a priority.
if we as a team were emphasizing easier shots and a more aggressive to the basket offense, Delfino might have got the chance to be more of a factor. And I'm sure Dumars is serious about wanting him to play. Its no secret that he and Flip never agreed on that all year. But its still up to Flip. Miami didnt just kill us in the paint because of Shaq. Its the pentration of Wade, williams, and even walker that kept them in the drivers seat. we werent as a team getting to the rack like them. the rules are as soft as biscuit dough. so why are we being soft about attacking teams? All acting like sheed was the paint points savior is asinine and ignorant to the fact that outside of tayshaun, NO ONE WAS ATTACKING THE BASKET CONSISTENTLY. the couple of games we came close to that oddly enough are the games we won. and we didnt shoot great in the game 5 win. but it was a more aggressive team out there.

Either way Sheed has forsaken us and the team was playing great. he's the one who dragged us down. we dont even need new free agents. we'll be great once we dump sheed. it was him that made everything bad happen. he told Flip and chauncy they were dead if they put him in the post. he made ben miss free throws and talked Rip into playing mediocre at best. Sheed=Antichrist. [smilie=zzz.gif]

well said.

Ben Wallace key to Dumars' plans
Pistons president is unlikely to overhaul roster unless free-agent center signs elsewhere.
Chris McCosky / The Detroit News
AUBURN HILLS -- In his annual postseason state-of-the-team address Monday, Pistons president Joe Dumars said there was only one way he would overhaul his roster this summer -- if free-agent center Ben Wallace chose to sign elsewhere.
"What I have to do is determine, 'Have we got all that we can out of this group? Is it time to make that transition?' " Dumars said. "My job is to figure that out, and I have come to the idea that it's not that time. You don't do what we did and get to where we got and say, 'We're not good enough.' We aren't going to change the team completely.
"Are we are going to add to it? Absolutely."
Dumars said he expects to bring back his top six players -- Chauncey Billups, Richard Hamilton, Tayshaun Prince, Rasheed Wallace, Ben Wallace and Antonio McDyess -- and add one or two top-tier pieces to that core.
"Our ability to count on the same five or six players has run out," Dumars said. "We have to rely less on the top six guys. At some point we have to start adding to that mix, and not just periphery guys, not just guys who would be the ninth or 10th guys on the bench, but significant guys who can be in the mix."
All of that is on hold, though, until Ben Wallace is re-signed.
"He's very important to the continuity of who we are," Dumars said. "What we've been able to do the last five years has been spearheaded by him."
Wallace, the reigning defensive player of the year, has said he would like to return, and Dumars made it clear the feeling was mutual. But Wallace will be 32 in September and this will be his last major contract. That's why he hired powerful agent Arn Tellem to represent him.
The Pistons aren't likely to offer Wallace a maximum contract (which would start between $14 million and $17 million). It's more likely the Pistons will offer a four-year deal, perhaps starting out at $10 million to $12 million. If another team comes in with a maximum offer -- which is somewhat unlikely given Wallace's age and skill limitations -- the Pistons probably won't match.
"Ben is an unrestricted free agent," Dumars said. "At the end of the day, it's going to be Ben's call. I'm going to do what I need to do to get him to come back. But it's his call."
Dumars said there was a fine line between his desire to reward Wallace for all that he's accomplished the last six years and making the right economic decision for the future.
"There is a balance," he said. "I want guys to know they're going to be compensated for what they've done. But I also have a business to run moving forward. That's a delicate balance.
"I think we can get it done. I have some ideas about what it's going to take. But my ideas have to match his ideas."
Wallace told reporters Saturday that security and being in a place he felt wanted and comfortable -- for himself and his family -- mattered more than squeezing every available dollar out of the contract.
Dumars and Wallace talked briefly Saturday.
"My thing to him was, 'How do you want me to deal with Arn,' " Dumars said. "And he said, 'Just get it done as quickly as possible.' That was the end of the conversation."
Wallace isn't officially a free agent until July 1. Dumars can't begin negotiations until then. Free agents can sign contracts as early as July 12.
"The only way this team makes any drastic changes is if Ben doesn't re-sign," Dumars said. "But my intention is to have the top six back."
Dumars said he wants to add a proven wing scorer and/or a backup point guard and perhaps another low-post scoring option. He said he would seek to find those players through free agency (he has the mid-level exception and veterans exceptions at his disposal), trades and by building from within.
"We have to add a couple of more pieces to the team," he said. "When McDyess is your only veteran, proven scorer off the bench, that becomes an issue. If he's not scoring, you don't know where it's going to come from. That has to change. We need more proven people we know can step in and score for us."
The Pistons are likely to make a run at free agent Bonzi Wells, a former Pistons draft pick, who played in Sacramento last season. Other free agents who would fit the need would be former Piston Mike James, recently of Toronto (although he might command too much money), Philadelphia's John Salmons and Memphis' Bobby Jackson.
A player such as Portland's Juan Dixon also could interest the Pistons, although his contract runs through 2008 so they would have to broker a trade.
"We need people who can break defenses down and get us easier shots," Dumars said. "We have to somehow get more points in the paint. I thought we depended on jump shots way too much."
Rookies Jason Maxiell (who could provide some low-post scoring) and Amir Johnson will be given every opportunity to win spots in the rotation for next season. Dumars also said he didn't plan on trading forward Carlos Delfino.
"He's going to be here," Dumars said. "We're not trading him and he's not going anywhere. That was one of those situations where I would have liked to see him play more this year. Flip (Saunders) and I talked about that. He provides a skill we need -- he can put it on the floor, break down defenses, get to the rim and play in the open court. We need that."
Dumars reiterated that the Pistons, while not foregoing their defensive orientation completely, had to adapt to the changing NBA game.
"You can only win in a one-dimensional manner for so long," he said. "I don't care who you are. You have to diversify the way you win. For us to think we can keep grinding out 72-71 wins forever is wrong. With the rules changes and the way the game is being played now, we have to diversify.
"We have to be able to go into Phoenix, like we did, and be able to outscore them. And we have to go to other places, like Memphis, and be able to grind it out with them. We have to play different styles. The best teams can do that."
Dumars clearly believes the Pistons' window of opportunity is still wide open, and he let the players know what he expected before they scattered Saturday.
"My message to the guys was, 'Don't make excuses this summer,' " he said. "I don't want to hear about anybody being hurt or whatever. We didn't get it done and the fact is, we have to come back and get it done. That's what I expect and they have given me no reason to expect anything less."
You can reach Chris McCosky at (313) 222-1489 or chris.mccosky@detnews.com. (chris.mccosky@detnews.com)

Just thought i'd share

Its really surprising to hear JoeD say things like..."but I also have a business to run" Meaning we ain't breaking the bank for Ben.

We would not have heard that 2 years ago. Ben's contract year hit at the wrong time for Ben and the right time for the Pistons.

But Ben can still sign a nice deal with us and finish up with us. But some other team will prolly pony up and then it will be Bens choice.

"running a business" is code for "Davidson ain't payin the fucking luxury tax".

"running a business" is code for "Davidson ain't payin the fucking luxury tax".

And any good GM should try to stay out of the LT. Having the correct contract on the value of the player is always good general managing. Helps when you need to make a trade, etc.


If it was Ben from a coupe of years ago I bet he would.

Ben's contract year hit at the wrong time for Ben and the right time for the Pistons.
Which side (if any) was responsible for Ben's contract not getting extended when Tay's was?

i never said sheed wasnt a great pf. and i've never claimed there was a realistic replacement that was an upgrade. but face facts:

1) the #1 issue when LB left was: will sheed become a problem.
2) the only reason we got sheed was because he was more trouble than he was worth.
3) Flip was brought in as an x's and o's guy (because the players would police themselves). well, i dont see anyone policing sheed (it sure as hell wont be flip), and sheed is another year removed from LB's discipline.
4) he came into the season in shape and ready to go, but he got steadilly worse (especially around the allstar game). rarely did he go to the post, and PFs lighting him up became routine.

if it really was his ankle, how do you explain 2 of his best performances (game 6 & 7 of cle) coming after the injury?

i never said sheed wasnt a great pf. and i've never claimed there was a realistic replacement that was an upgrade. but face facts:

1) the #1 issue when LB left was: will sheed become a problem.
2) the only reason we got sheed was because he was more trouble than he was worth.
3) Flip was brought in as an x's and o's guy (because the players would police themselves). well, i dont see anyone policing sheed (it sure as hell wont be flip), and sheed is another year removed from LB's discipline.
4) he came into the season in shape and ready to go, but he got steadilly worse (especially around the allstar game). rarely did he go to the post, and PFs lighting him up became routine.

if it really was his ankle, how do you explain 2 of his best performances (game 6 & 7 of cle) coming after the injury?


1) the #1 issue when LB left was: will sheed become a problem.
whose #1 issue. generally speaking the #1 issue most people brought up was Flip's coaching philosophy and the lack of playoffs wins. seems like that hit us harder than anything. but ok.


2) the only reason we got sheed was because he was more trouble than he was worth.
these are sounding like your own reasons. truthfully sheed was far from being black balled in the league and was known as a great player to play with and coach before he got here. his outbursts usually came at refs and the league. oddly enough he didnt come anywhere near the technical foul limit this postseason. yet somehow he's gone off the deep end?


3) Flip was brought in as an x's and o's guy (because the players would police themselves). well, i dont see anyone policing sheed (it sure as hell wont be flip), and sheed is another year removed from LB's discipline.
umm nor are they policing Ben's comments, Rip's tendency to turn the ball over trying to be a point guard, or Billups bad decisions. i guess we should move them all for players who dont need authority whatsoever. these guys run the sets that are called with no one missing their assignment. you'd be lucky to have guys do that with as much ease as they do. As far as policing off the court. There are no fights and everyone sticks up for each other with no scapegoating on each other as players. Thats about as much as you can expect. Blasting Flip isnt something i'd call "lets get rid of the cancer" type activity. but to each his own.



4) he came into the season in shape and ready to go, but he got steadilly worse (especially around the allstar game). rarely did he go to the post, and PFs lighting him up became routine.
first off i explained this before. we made the call for him to shoot more 3's. and no one was bitching when they went in. he went to the post with no resistence ever when we called his number for such. You almost act as if he told them "fuck off, i'm not going in the post".:confused:

Secondly, before his ankle injury i saw no "lighting up" going on from other PF's. In fact he was making the bucks PF's and C's look silly trying to score on him. same for drew gooden before his injury. It seems everytime you hate a guy he's never done anything good ever(ala sheed) and everytime you love a guy he's never done anything wrong (ala darko and gerald wallace). I'm not gonna call sheed a saint up in here. But your "he's worthless loser cancer with an uncontrollable attitude waiting to destroy this team" take on him is way off base.

Ben's contract year hit at the wrong time for Ben and the right time for the Pistons.
Which side (if any) was responsible for Ben's contract not getting extended when Tay's was?

I thought Tay's contract was up, so he was due a new contract, not an extension. No?

"LB's Discipline"

LMAO

Sheed could have bitch slapped LB in the face and he wouldnt do a thing about it. LB has two sets of rules: one for carolina players, one for everyone else.

"mr discipline" had waaaay more techs under larry than he did under Flip.

Ben's contract year hit at the wrong time for Ben and the right time for the Pistons.
Which side (if any) was responsible for Ben's contract not getting extended when Tay's was?

I thought Tay's contract was up, so he was due a new contract, not an extension. No?

Um, probably because they COULDNT have extended Ben's deal under the CBA rules?

"LB's Discipline"

LMAO

Sheed could have bitch slapped LB in the face and he wouldnt do a thing about it. LB has two sets of rules: one for carolina players, one for everyone else.

"mr discipline" had waaaay more techs under larry than he did under Flip.

LMFAO, yeah that was all Flip and had nothing to do with the NBA instituting the suspension rules for Tech totals.

"LB's Discipline"

LMAO

Sheed could have bitch slapped LB in the face and he wouldnt do a thing about it. LB has two sets of rules: one for carolina players, one for everyone else.

"mr discipline" had waaaay more techs under larry than he did under Flip.

LMFAO, yeah that was all Flip and had nothing to do with the NBA instituting the suspension rules for Tech totals.


Oh yeah, cause sheed CLEARLY gave a shit about the technical rule...lol

The fact remains Sheed was no less out of control under larry. If anything he was more out of control. In 2 years larry never said a damn thing to him.

Now, larry would discipline every other player on the team, just not sheed.

Oh, then you really think Flip held him down?

It just gets funnier and funnier.

Oh, then you really think Flip held him down?

It just gets funnier and funnier.


No, the funny part was suggesting Larry did.

Of course, that was topped by the point flying so far about your head you couldnt reach it with stilts.....

How about this. Nobody held Sheed Down. I think people still believe the hype of him being a cancer. Though no one has EVER said anything negative about coaching and playing with Sheed. Flip lost the teams respect. stop singling Sheed out. Everybody was looking at him differently. Billups liked him as a nice guy he used to play for. But even he wasn't really giving a shit. Flip will be back. His own GM said that he and the players will have to adapt. In no uncertain terms Joe told Flip he has to change his coaching philosophy. Atleast for the postseason that is. But he also told his players they have no excuses. I dont think he's looking to move anybody. we get cato off the books, possibly move dale davis, maybe even mo evans, and he'll look to be more active in the FA market this offseason for a 7 and 8 guy with Delfino as his 9.

I do think that he may not resign Delk though. I'm not ruling it out. but its possible. Also i see hunter retiring at this point to make room.

THere's no more room in the NBA for a player like lindsey hunter. For every steal he got in the playoffs, he was called for about 3 fouls.

Oh, then you really think Flip held him down?

It just gets funnier and funnier.

No, the funny part was suggesting Larry did.

Of course, that was topped by the point flying so far about your head you couldnt reach it with stilts.....
Please.

Btw, I just saw your edit to post #57. My reply (post #58) came when your post contained only one line ending with "lol".

But regardless, your use of the disparity between his techs under Larry vs the number under Flip as proof that LB didn't have any control is still a joke since it was clearly the tech rule that chilled Sheeds T getting fire. But since you seem to think Sheed didn't care about the T-rule, it must be that Flip held him down. Astonishing.

The point about LB not being a disciplinarian when it comes to Sheed (you know, the one you say went over my head), I have little to no problem with.

egardless, your use of the disparity between his techs under Larry vs the number under Flip as proof that LB didn't have any control is still a joke since it was clearly the tech rule that chilled Sheeds T getting fire.

Its pretty clear that NOBODY controls rasheed.....

Or did you not miss the 50,000 different quotes from sheed this year saying the league rule didnt affect him?

"it was clearly the tech rule?"

please.

It was the fact he was having a much better season in the new offense, and had less reason to get pissed off.

less reason to get pissed off?

sheed didnt stop jawing at the officials once this season. go to a game and watch him. its literally non stop.

Everything Sheed says is truth.

Sincerely,

Game 4 Guaransheed

I'll tell you what I did miss. The 50,000 extra Ts he used to get before the rule.

LB had the respect of the team and his philosophy was proven in their postseason results. That only helps the respect factor. Control is a bad word. Its respect. Thats what Larry has more of than Flip right now(including 1 vs zero rings). Larry wasnt getting respect from the knicks and they couldnt win for shit.

LB had Sheed's respect a little more because they're both part of the North Carolina crowd. I don't think it amounted to very much, though.

THere's no more room in the NBA for a player like lindsey hunter. For every steal he got in the playoffs, he was called for about 3 fouls.

LMAOOOO

OK Kstat

THere's no more room in the NBA for a player like lindsey hunter. For every steal he got in the playoffs, he was called for about 3 fouls.

LMAOOOO

OK Kstat


I wasnt kidding.

He got called for about 3 fouls for every steal.

THere's no more room in the NBA for a player like lindsey hunter. For every steal he got in the playoffs, he was called for about 3 fouls.

And for every steal he threw up fifty bricks(25 of them layups), turned the ball over multiple times, and wasted a shitload of time off the shot clock.

I can't wait until he's off this team.

I think there is room for him, but he should be the 11th man on the bench, not the primary backup guard. He's like Mo Evans. The perfect end of the bench guy, but Flip seems to think their energy are enough to overcome their offensive deficiancies full time.

WTF kinda stat is steals/personal fouls?

4) he came into the season in shape and ready to go, but he got steadilly worse (especially around the allstar game). rarely did he go to the post, and PFs lighting him up became routine.
first off i explained this before. we made the call for him to shoot more 3's. and no one was bitching when they went in. he went to the post with no resistence ever when we called his number for such. You almost act as if he told them "fuck off, i'm not going in the post".:confused:


To take that point a little further, as things came apart in the playoffs, Flip and some of the players (Prince, I think, but I'm a little fuzzy on exactly which player made what post-game comment) talked about how emphasizing isolation to exploit mismatches was taking them away from the motion that worked so well for them offensively during the season.

By design it's just not a post-up offense. When they do get paint points it's from hitting the cutter, the lob and the drive. The movement to create those opportunities stopped happening and then the offense choked on its own vomit was guys just stood around. Hamilton in particular went jimi hendrix as his offense is almost entirely a result of ball and player movement.

Damn that Lindsy Hunter! Why did he basicly win us the Cleaveland series with his play! Why oh why did you do that!


Fuck Hunter haters.

Lindsey's value to the team will drop as the BS defensive rules get tighter and he gets older. if Delk could play average defense (which he might, we really haven't seen too much to gauge), his good offense + average defense could easily outweigh Lindsey's good defense + bad offense.

i really think that Joe D could help the team out by thinning out the bench, forcing Flip to play certain people like Delfino and Delk. i think LB had the same "problem", in that there were too many pieces on the bench to play. i remember him complaining about that once.

Exactly.

My point was lindsey sent the other team to the line 4 times for every time he got a clean stal. The rules dont allow for his kind of defense.

lindsey is the problem? lol.

outside of prince, he easily had the best playoffs of any piston. your talking out of your ass when you say the rules have negated linsdey, especially if you say its only getting worse. he was the only guy who did anything against wade (unless you dont want to count all those charges he took), and he was invaluable against lebron.

this is rediculous. you want to get rid of one of the only guys who cared out there, yet damn near everyone wants to hold on to rasheed "finally get to live it up in the bahammas" wallace.

lindsey's going to be 36 years old this year......i love him for what's he's done for us, but the only reason he played even decently well is because he only played 30 games during the regular season. call me crazy, but i'm willing to bring in a backup PG who's not pushing 40 and isn't the worst fast break PG in the NBA.

Wade was best contained when we threw a zone at him occasionally or he was flu stricken. Hunter's physical defense starting from the three point line is going to draw a foul on himself like 50%+ of the time.

like i said, if Delk can provide even average defense, i think he's an upgrade as a backup guard over Lindsey. i'm not saying Lindsey was the reason we lost. just saying we can upgrade at that spot, imo.

i dont know if you noticed, but the only time we 'contained' wade was when he was off the court. we didnt do shit to guard him. and maybe lindsey did foul him alot, but a whistle was blown every time he slashed regardless of the D. wade is just that good (and the refs like him just that much). i'd be in favor of bringing in another pg. but lindsey definitly has a spot on a 12 man roster, especially when he'll play for the vet minimum.

that was my point too, when i said we contained him when he was flu stricken. we did manage to force him into a few bad turnovers when we threw a zone at him. not saying we shut him down, but it was a brief moment when he wasn't shooting like 70% FG on us.

i think we can all agree that Lindsey is on the last few breaths of his NBA career. while i really don't mind him being on the team or being used in spot minutes.....in the playoffs that meant that Delk got basically no run, when we really could have used his scoring. of course, our back up PG next season could be someone else entirely.

lindsey is the problem? lol.

outside of prince, he easily had the best playoffs of any piston. your talking out of your ass when you say the rules have negated linsdey, especially if you say its only getting worse. he was the only guy who did anything against wade (unless you dont want to count all those charges he took), and he was invaluable against lebron.

this is rediculous. you want to get rid of one of the only guys who cared out there, yet damn near everyone wants to hold on to rasheed "finally get to live it up in the bahammas" wallace.

I agree. And if the refs had called the game properly, he would have had a half dozen more charges drawn on Wade as well.

The problem isn't with Hunter, it's with Flip counting on him. Hunter is the perfect situational player. Unfortunatly he's our only regular bench guy besides Dyess. Everyone hated Curry because he was used so much. If Curry played once every 5-10 games because of foul trouble or because he got the best of a particular player...nobody would have been bitching. We hated him because Prick started his worthless butt.

For what Lindsey is, he's a fine player. He brings:

- consistently feisty good defense
- mostly-off sometimes-on offense
- no serious ball handling skills
- good character, not a punk
- a very reasonable contract

He's a 10th-12th man who's stepped up as best he can to play a 7th man. You bring him in when you want to smother some fast punk, or when no one else is doing it on offense because he might light up. You don't bring him in to handle the ball like a PG. You don't worry about him and team chemistry.

he definitly has a spot on the team. i completely agree another pg is in order, but lindsey is extremely valuable, if only to draw a few charges that get wade off the court for a few minutes.