Now that we fucking quit and are on our way out, there should be an offseason thread. Maybe to combine the KG, trade Sheed, Fix the team, and McKosky threads, or maybe just as a new seperate one.

Post your plan's, thoughts, and all that about the offseason here.





*Mods- if you think that this is just another repeated thread than you can delete this, but I think it makes sense to have.

No you are correct this will be a seperate topic-----JS

***************EDIT BY JS*******************************

I hate to act like the overbearing parent here but I want this thread to remain civil. This topic will be watched closely so no personal attacks will be tolerated. Everyone has the right to their opinion, if you disagree with them debate respectfully. Say what you want about what you think should be done... Do not fear being bold and vocal, do not fear being attacked.

This is not directed at any of the previous posts or posters, it is just a general warning. I want this topic to remain creative and free of intolerance.

I think it is clear that a trade is in order, specifically Sheed.

Chicago could offer #2 and players like Duhon, Deng, Nocioni, or Gordon, we could add the Orlando pick to make it more enticing.

Denver could offer Andre Miller and Nene, if they can ship off KMart.

The Lakers could give up Odom and Bynum but we would have to add more.

KG is an obvious choice, but would be very hard to get.

The Knicks have Frye and some other young guys, but I'm not convinced that Thomas would be willing to trade with Joe, bringing the comparison even closer.

Utah could try to combine Boozer, #14, and somthing else.

I think that Chicago would be the best match, as they have the youth and wide variety of talents to offer, and needs a better scorer opposite Chandler(which is why Ben makes no sense to me, for them).

FA Wise:
Wells and Harrington have expressed interest, but both seem like they will likely be worth more than the MLE.

If we got a top end pick Aldridge seems obvious, nid to late lotto, I would look PG or SG/SF, Brewer possibly the best option as he plays them all. With our pick, I am hoping Dee Brown will fall.

Coaching- As much as I want to Fire Flip, I don't think you can do that yet, he would need to fail again.

We absolutely need a low post scoring threat.

Flip is not going to be fired, so there's no point in discussing that. You might want him gone, but he's going to stick around.

As for offseason moves, Joe will figure something out.

kstat is right.

Flips not going anywhere...

See, I don't think we'll make a major trade. I think we'll re-sign Ben (and may get him cheaper than I thought), and keep the rest of the starters plus McDyess. The draft will produce nothing, and Hunter, Delk, and Acker are probably gone. We'll have to get a backup combo guard, either through free agency or trade (Delfino, Davis, 2 first rounders next season) and another big.
And Flip Saunders won't be fired.

One thing Dumars needs to get through Saunders head is that we will be playing 82 meaningless regular season games. It doesn't matter if we win 70 or we win 42, just that we make the playoffs. I think Dumars will make minor moves, and evaluate the team at midseason. If there's a major trade to be made, I think it'll be made then.

So, in summary:
Players that will be back at the beginning of the season (IMO):
Billups, Hamilton, Prince, Sheed, Ben, McDyess, Evans, Maxiell, Johnson.

Maybes:
Davis, Delk

Gone:
Hunter (retired), Delfino, Cato, Acker.

And Saunders will still be the coach.

Can you guys stop talking about Garnett. He is NOT going to play for Flipper... provided he's not canned by Joe D.

...and I'm not convinced Flipper WON'T be "released".

Sucks that Sac just signed Musselman. So, how about the former Sac coach? What's his name. Kind of famous for winning, y'know.

Adelman or Flipper?

...and I'm not convinced Flipper WON'T be "released".

Sucks that Sac just signed Musselman. So, how about the former Sac coach? What's his name. Kind of famous for winning, y'know.

Adelman or Flipper?

Adelman's not considerably better, if he is at all. There's not a coach available who is considerably better than Saunders.

Adelman failed to win a championship with great Portland teams in the early 90s, and he failed to win a championship with great Sacramento teams in the early 00s.

...and I'm not convinced Flipper WON'T be "released".

Sucks that Sac just signed Musselman. So, how about the former Sac coach? What's his name. Kind of famous for winning, y'know.

Adelman or Flipper?

Adelman's not considerably better, if he is at all. There's not a coach available who is considerably better than Saunders.

Adelman failed to win a championship with great Portland teams in the early 90s, and he failed to win a championship with great Sacramento teams in the early 00s.


I want LB back. I don't give a fuck what happened in the off season. Players would just have to suck that shit up.

If Phil and Kobe can... maybe........ nahh, pipe dream =/.

...and I'm not convinced Flipper WON'T be "released".

Sucks that Sac just signed Musselman. So, how about the former Sac coach? What's his name. Kind of famous for winning, y'know.

Adelman or Flipper?
Adelman's not considerably better, if he is at all. There's not a coach available who is considerably better than Saunders.

Adelman failed to win a championship with great Portland teams in the early 90s, and he failed to win a championship with great Sacramento teams in the early 00s.

Good points. Suggestion rescinded.

Me and you both, brother.


LB is a wet dream at this point.

Well, Flip will be back, so we might as well start an 07-08 offseason thread.

...and I'm not convinced Flipper WON'T be "released".

Sucks that Sac just signed Musselman. So, how about the former Sac coach? What's his name. Kind of famous for winning, y'know.

Adelman or Flipper?
Adelman's not considerably better, if he is at all. There's not a coach available who is considerably better than Saunders.

Adelman failed to win a championship with great Portland teams in the early 90s, and he failed to win a championship with great Sacramento teams in the early 00s.

Good points. Suggestion rescinded.

But Saunders does need to change the way he coaches. Once again, if we bring the same group back (and I think Dumars will), Flip needs to realize the regular season is meaningless.

Ironically, the health of our starters may have been bad in hindsight. If Rip were out for 10 games, that would force Delfino and Evans to have to play 20 to 25 minutes a game. If Sheed or Ben were out for 10 games, that would have forced Davis into 20 to 25 minutes a night. Flip needs to play the bench more, and not worry about the record.

KG and Brand are our dream trades. Chicago won't trade with us.

My ideal offseason is Rip and Sheed for Al Jefferson and Paul Pierce. Al is young and can play in the post but doesn't have the range of Sheed, which should be a good thing on our team. Pierce is better than Rip. Trade Evans so Flip will be forced to play Delfino. Resign Ben and Delk.

Start Chauncey, PP, Tay, Al, and Ben. Dice will get a lot of minutes with Al to keep Al in the post and give Dice the midrange J. Delfino and Delk will be our main other two bench guys, and Amir Johnson and Dale Davis getting spot minutes. I know you guys might not like this, but we need a true low post player almost beyond anything else.

Wow.....just wow. LMFAO.

Me and you both, brother.


LB is a wet dream at this point.

Yeah.


You know, I just wonder how quick players would be to accept LB and his philosophy back after being bounced embarrased by their mortal enemies, the heat?

I think pretty damn quick. Looking back at last year, that shit was fickle and childish. who fuckin cares if he dreamed about a job when he's under contract for three more years....... ARGH!

Instead of saying fuck you play the game, the organization kissed players ass and helped LB to the door. It's ironic, because there's a greater chance of them bolting now, then it was if LB stuck around. Im so fuckin pissed off yo.

KG and Brand are our dream trades. Chicago won't trade with us.

My ideal offseason is Rip and Sheed for Al Jefferson and Paul Pierce. Al is young and can play in the post but doesn't have the range of Sheed, which should be a good thing on our team. Pierce is better than Rip. Trade Evans so Flip will be forced to play Delfino. Resign Ben and Delk.

Start Chauncey, PP, Tay, Al, and Ben. Dice will get a lot of minutes with Al to keep Al in the post and give Dice the midrange J. Delfino and Delk will be our main other two bench guys, and Amir Johnson and Dale Davis getting spot minutes. I know you guys might not like this, but we need a true low post player almost beyond anything else.

I don't think that losing Rip's mid range shooting could help this team in any way. Also, swapping malcontents seems iffy to me.

Pierce hasn't been a malcontent this season. I don't really want to trade Rip at all, but in the end teams aren't just going to want Rasheed, outside of New York anyway. Tayshaun is not going anywhere. He likely has the most locked spot on our roster. There aren't going to be any better options than Chauncey available, even though he sucked it up after the Milwaukee series. I don't know what's going to happen to Ben, but similar to Chauncey, there aren't going to be better Centers available, even if he is on the decline.

In the end, this team needs someone who can take over down the stretch like Billups can, or get a basket when we are in a slump. The only other superstar who is really available is AI, and his contract is horrible considering his age.

We can't do better than Billups, and he and Rip are too good a combo to break up.

Tay is the one player who DID step up his game in May, so he isnt goign anywhere either.

Ben and Sheed look like the odd men out, unbelievable as it may be. Sheed doesnt play in the post enough, and Ben is halfway out the door already.

Id sign and trade Ben for whatever we can get, and try to sucker Zeke into taking Sheed for Frye or Curry.

I wouldn't touch Curry if my life depended on it. He is such a poor rebounder, defender, AND passer. Not really that great in FTs either. Frye would be a great pickup, but Zeke can't be that dumb to trade away his good players again.... can he?

Much as Curry has his problems, he can do two things:

1. He has size to match shaq nobody else has on this team.

2. He can score in the post.

One man's trash is another's treasure. Curry would solve two big issues on this team.

I can have hope that playing with tay rip and chauncey spreading the floor for him, he would develop into a better passer.

Curry is not the answer to any of the Pistons problems. Any he might come close to solving, would be outweighted by the others he'd create. Unless you are talking about the Vocalizer. He, I might take just to watch W.O.D's response all season long.

KStat, I do agree with you on that one. We do need someone who can at least stand in front of Shaq, but he is such a crap defender, I laugh everytime we play against him.

Curry is not the answer to any of the Pistons problems. Any he might come close to solving, would be outweighted by the others he'd create.

Assuming we can get ben back, putting him alongside curry would be an awesome combo, theoretically.

1. Ben could play PF, where he belongs at this point.

2. We'd have a post presense that shoots %57 in the paint and doesnt rebound any worse than sheed.

KStat, I do agree with you on that one. We do need someone who can at least stand in front of Shaq, but he is such a crap defender, I laugh everytime we play against him.

I won't argue that, but the fact is Shaq cant throw curry around like everyone else. That alone makes curry valuable defensively, as laughable as that sounds.

Aside from that, Ben could be the HELP defender on shaq, which is what he was meant to do to begin with.

%90 of this series was spent with ben occupied and unable to help on defense, and you saw the result.

We dont need a terriffic defender at center. Ben can take care of that.

We need a post presence, and someone who can bring some SIZE. Ben can erase whatever defensive and rebounding issues he brings.

True, but the paint would be awfully crowded. Someone would have to teach Curry how to pass, since is just awful there.

True, but the paint would be awfully crowded. Someone would have to teach Curry how to pass, since is just awful there.

Good.

I would LOVE for the paint to be crowded every game for once.

Sheed Tay and Rip spreading the floor? By all means, crowd the paint....

Just once, I'd love to get OUR players wide open shots every play like Miami gets otherwise-shitty players like JWill and Walker.

Better a crowded paint than an empty one, with everyone out defending the perimeter, knowing we have no way to make them pay down low....

Not saying Curry is anything close to perfect, but he's everything we DIDN'T have this year. Beggars can't be choosers.

Give me a mid-high pick for Sheed and some bench help and I do it. Grab a guy like Cedric Simmons or Patrick O'Bryant in the draft and give Max some real minutes.

now that thought really scares me fp. I gotta think you are writing that out of anger.

now that thought really scares me fp. I gotta think you are writing that out of anger.

Yea, some of it. But if we're getting rid of Sheed I don't see any option that could turn out good for us outside of trying to find a diamond in the rough in the draft. Curry? Harrington? None of these guys fit.

I hate to act like the overbearing parent here but I want this thread to remain civil. This topic will be watched closely so no personal attacks will be tolerated. Everyone has the right to their opinion, if you disagree with them debate respectfully. Say what you want about what you think should be done... Do not fear being bold and vocal, do not fear being attacked.

This is not directed at any of the previous posts or posters, it is just a general warning. I want this topic to remain creative and free of intolerance.

Curry is not the answer to any of the Pistons problems. Any he might come close to solving, would be outweighted by the others he'd create.

Assuming we can get ben back, putting him alongside curry would be an awesome combo, theoretically.

1. Ben could play PF, where he belongs at this point.

2. We'd have a post presense that shoots %57 in the paint and doesnt rebound any worse than sheed.

The the floor wouldn't be as open as you wanted in another post. Ben and Curry would be a terrible combo IMHO. Things would be awfully crowded in the paint with those two and their defenders. I fail to see how Curry is an upgrade over Sheed.

I'm going to get flamed for saying this, but Ben needs to go. I would have loved to see him retire in a Pistons jersey, but lets be honest - he's only going to be on the decline. I think it's time to change up our front court. That includes Sheed.

is it finally time for Detroit to acquire a legit star scorer?

our biggest problem in the past 10 games or so was scoring. look at the first two rounds of Miami's playoffs. they routinely broke 100 pts. during the Pistons/Heat series, they never broke 100. that in spite of Miami shooting an unreal % at times. while it looked like our defense was porous at time (and it was), i don't think our issues were on the defensive end.

i think i'm finally ready for the Pistons to trade for a top tier scorer in the NBA. we've done pretty well w/ the "star-less" team and it's been fun to watch. but it looked like we took a huge step backwards in the Miami series. it was like the Carlisle era where we couldn't score if our lives depended on it (and our playoff lives DID depend on it).

we have tradeable assets. even if we trade some of them, we've got a VERY talented core. our bigmen just didn't produce when we needed them. Sheed may be insanely talented, but his desire NOT to be the man hurt us. 10 points in a elimination game when you're being guarded by 6'8" Udonis Haslem? Ben's actions say that he's done in Detroit, for whatever reason.

let's package one of our bigs and get a superstar type player. i really do think it's time. but honestly, i'm having a hard time picturing news reports on WDFN saying that Joe D is close to a deal w/ the T'Wolves to bring KG to Detroit. i hope i'm wrong....

is it finally time for Detroit to acquire a legit star scorer?

our biggest problem in the past 10 games or so was scoring. look at the first two rounds of Miami's playoffs. they routinely broke 100 pts. during the Pistons/Heat series, they never broke 100. that in spite of Miami shooting an unreal % at times. while it looked like our defense was porous at time (and it was), i don't think our issues were on the defensive end.

i think i'm finally ready for the Pistons to trade for a top tier scorer in the NBA. we've done pretty well w/ the "star-less" team and it's been fun to watch. but it looked like we took a huge step backwards in the Miami series. it was like the Carlisle era where we couldn't score if our lives depended on it (and our playoff lives DID depend on it).

we have tradeable assets. even if we trade some of them, we've got a VERY talented core. our bigmen just didn't produce when we needed them. Sheed may be insanely talented, but his desire NOT to be the man hurt us. 10 points in a elimination game when you're being guarded by 6'8" Udonis Haslem? Ben's actions say that he's done in Detroit, for whatever reason.

let's package one of our bigs and get a superstar type player. i really do think it's time. but honestly, i'm having a hard time picturing news reports on WDFN saying that Joe D is close to a deal w/ the T'Wolves to bring KG to Detroit. i hope i'm wrong....

Other than KG who are other "Superstar" bigs that we would have a chance at? Anyone better than Ben and Sheed I don't think would be avaialable and the list is pretty slim to start with. Short List of Bigs that that could be on the move but most unlikely to come here and most are worse than we we got.

J O'Neal
KG
Camby (not better)
Troy murphy (Not better)
Odom
Gasol (too bad dumars fucked up and didn't grab him when he could)
Pryzbilla
Randolph (another head case?)
Brad Miller
Charlie V (only throwing him on cause McCoskey did)
Boozer

I am not going to bother throwing Brand, Dirk and others for obvious reasons.

I can't think of many more and some of those guys don't solve our inside scoring problems.

KG or bust.

KG, Randolph, Odom, Villenueava, Okafor, Frye and Bynum are the bigs that I would have interest in, and we would actually have some sort of shot at. Gasol could actually be interesting too, but I think his price has gone beyond anything reasonable.

Sheed for Bynum and change, and Ben for Charlie V. with other stuff on both sides, like we throw in Mo, get MoPete, we maybe get some picks, etc?

Edit: Now that I look at Bynum's stats, he looks like shit, I remembered a few games where he tore it up, and it made him appeal more than he should have.

Why not keep the Starters+McDyess together for one more year? It's not like their season was a total disaster. You don't blow up a 64 win team that lost in 6 in the third round. Joe D just needs to respond to what Pat Riley did last year, keep the core, and tweak the role players with the sole idea to beat Miami.

We need two guys from this list, a shooter, & a back to the hoop type if we go the free agent route:

Jason Terry, PG, Dallas
Peja Stojakovic, SF, Indiana (Player option)
Al Harrington, PF, Atlanta
Mike James, Toronto (Player option)
Chris Wilcox, PF, Seattle (Restricted)
Nene, PF/C, Denver (Restricted)
Bonzi Wells, SG/SF, Sacramento
Matt Harpring, SG/SF, Utah
Joel Przybilla, C, Portland
Speedy Claxton, PG, New Orleans
Vladimir Radmanovic, SF/PF, LA Clippers
Nazr Mohammed, C, San Antonio
Reggie Evans, PF, Denver
Keith Van Horn, SF/PF, Dallas
Sam Cassell, PG, LA Clippers
Ruben Patterson, Denver (Player option)
Bobby Jackson, PG/SG, Memphis

KG, Randolph, Odom, Villenueava, Okafor, Frye and Bynum are the bigs that I would have interest in, and we would actually have some sort of shot at. Gasol could actually be interesting too, but I think his price has gone beyond anything reasonable.

Sheed for Bynum and change, and Ben for Charlie V. with other stuff on both sides, like we throw in Mo, get MoPete, we maybe get some picks, etc?

Edit: Now that I look at Bynum's stats, he looks like shit, I remembered a few games where he tore it up, and it made him appeal more than he should have.


If we go after CV, Bynum and possible Okafor we mine as well start rebuilding cause those bigs aren't ready to compete for a ship yet. We need a vet I would think.

Why not keep the Starters+McDyess together for one more year? It's not like their season was a total disaster. You don't blow up a 64 win team that lost in 6 in the third round. Joe D just needs to respond to what Pat Riley did last year, keep the core, and tweak the role players with the sole idea to beat Miami.


No.

The majority of the fans here see this playoff failure as an opportunity to lose Ben and his to-be-whopping contract/declining play and a reason to get Rasheed the fuck off this team. He didn't do shit in the post this series and was generally a non-factor. Also, Flip needs to go. He's just not a motivator, and it was seen in the lackadaisical play all year and down the stretch. I think we hang on to Chauncey, Rip, Tay, Dyess, Delfino, and maybe Mad Max. Everyone else is fair game.

How much value do you guys think the Orlando pick can garner along with Rasheed and maybe Amir or Maurice?

KG, Randolph, Odom, Villenueava, Okafor, Frye and Bynum are the bigs that I would have interest in, and we would actually have some sort of shot at. Gasol could actually be interesting too, but I think his price has gone beyond anything reasonable.

Sheed for Bynum and change, and Ben for Charlie V. with other stuff on both sides, like we throw in Mo, get MoPete, we maybe get some picks, etc?

Edit: Now that I look at Bynum's stats, he looks like shit, I remembered a few games where he tore it up, and it made him appeal more than he should have.


If we go after CV, Bynum and possible Okafor we mine as well start rebuilding cause those bigs aren't ready to compete for a ship yet. We need a vet I would think.

Okafor is ready, IMO, other than his injuries.
CV could use some time, but he is better than Sheed in some ways already.

Bynum on the other hand needs 3-4 years.


Also, if we go after these guys, we could also improve our bench, maybe adding MoPete.

Unfortunatly, to get CV, we would have to give up Ben, rather than Sheed.

The real question is who could we get to replace Ben, if we do trade him. What C's are good enough to compete, Yao, Shaq, Ben, Miller, Duncan(PF/C), who is a C, Okafor?, who else.

If we could get CV, Okafor, MoPete, and an MLE pickup, I think we would still be Championship caliber, but it will be hard to trade one of the bigs, stay together, and still have the right amount of talent.

What about Nene? He's a starting calibur PF/C, and he's still only 23. Plus he's a free agent. We'd probably have to work out a sign and trade for either Wallace, but we'd end up with a low-post scorer.

Why not keep the Starters+McDyess together for one more year? It's not like their season was a total disaster. You don't blow up a 64 win team that lost in 6 in the third round. Joe D just needs to respond to what Pat Riley did last year, keep the core, and tweak the role players with the sole idea to beat Miami.


No.

The majority of the fans here see this playoff failure as an opportunity to lose Ben and his to-be-whopping contract/declining play and a reason to get Rasheed the fuck off this team. He didn't do shit in the post this series and was generally a non-factor. Also, Flip needs to go. He's just not a motivator, and it was seen in the lackadaisical play all year and down the stretch. I think we hang on to Chauncey, Rip, Tay, Dyess, Delfino, and maybe Mad Max. Everyone else is fair game.

How much value do you guys think the Orlando pick can garner along with Rasheed and maybe Amir or Maurice?

Odom, Bynum, and #26?

Frye, Robinson, bloated contract?

Something from Chicago (why would they get Ben, they already have someone like him in Chandler, Sheed has a shot though)?

Via 3 way:

Harrington, Childress and change?
Randolph, Jack and change?

Atl. and Portland won't want him by, methinks.

What about Nene? He's a starting calibur PF/C, and he's still only 23. Plus he's a free agent. We'd probably have to work out a sign and trade for either Wallace, but we'd end up with a low-post scorer.

Nene and Miller for Sheed and change could be possible. Nene can actually play C, so we would be able to move Ben too, if that is what we wanted to do.

On the other hand, he is still VERY raw, and had his knee majorly damaged. I would be careful about counting on him for bigtime minutes.

If we could get another big to take time away from him, and/or a guy who is a better scoring threat.

I have no idea how we would work it together, but by trading Sheed for Nene and Miller, then trading Miller for something like Harrington(if he says he wants out), then picking up a SG/SF either in trade, or by the MLE(Wells), or even Delfino just stepping up, then we would have a good offseason, IMO.

Not sure if that is possible though.

ok, my thoughts.

for all practical purposes, i think we need to keep the starters together if we want to have a shot at contending still. thats not what i want (i want sheed out of town, pronto) but realistacally, our only chance at contending is if we keep these guys together and they decide to care again. (i dont see it, but i also dont see moving one of the wallaces making us better). the only realistic trade we improve the starting 5 is bringing allen or pierce in for rip. beyond that, finding bench help is imperative.

but thats not what i would do. if the pistons didnt care this year, why would they care next year? nba champs->nba runnerups->ecf runnerps->??? (notice a trend?). next year, i suspect the cavs and bulls to make the leap, meaning the heat might be the least of our problems. sometimes you have to see the writing on the wall. NJ knew it was time to blow it up, LA knew it was time to blow it up, i think the pistons should know its time to blow it up.

first: trade sheed. trade him for anything. im not sure he even knows the playoffs started him. i'd trade him to NY for frye (irony: i'd much rather have darko. oh well), to NJ for krstic (sp?), tor for CV, boston for al Jefferosn, atl for harrington... just about anyteam for anyone. there are probably 40 guys i could come up with that i'd gladly trade sheed for. infact, i'll say this, its either sheed or me at this point. im not going to support a team that cares less than i do. i've watched some pretty miserable piston teams, but i've never been THIS disguested with a team (2000 didnt happen for me). im not i agree with some of you on his trade value. i think its extremely low, and we'd need to add the ORL pick in most trades.

ben: i'd LOVE to be at the negotiation table when he askes for 9 figures. i doubt any player has hurt his stock more than ben this year. and its flips fault. LB knew you dont play 5-4 on offense. he knew feeding the dog would keep him protectecting the yard. remember what we did on possession #1 every game during his reign?

anyway, i'd be in no rush to move ben, but i wouldnt give him his huge deal. and i'd be very open to trading him, but only if joe thought it was the right deal (i'll trust he's still capable of making good moves, though it has been a while...).

tay is the only guy i wouldnt even think about moving.

rip: caught fire about 2 weeks too late. we dont use him right, anymore. plus this is the position most easilly upgradeable.

chauncy: wouldnt move him, unless someone knocked my socks off. probably the only way i'd listen to offers would involve lots of high draft picks. dont see it happening.

i dont know who i'd go after to fix the boench. i wanted miller this year, i doubt he's available now (if he ever was). im not as down on our bench as most though. flip never figured out dice. i like lindsey. and hell, i didnt care that he had the green light on shooting all playoffs. him jacking up shots is as good as anyone, these days. i hope he doesnt retire, joe has enough to do this summer.

Amir's a building block. You definately keep him, because he has no value anyway.

Mo has zero value. You'd be better off releasing him.

Mo has zero value. You'd be better off releasing him.

We got a mid/high 2nd rounder for Ronald Dupree. I don't see why we couldn't at least get that.

Mo has zero value. You'd be better off releasing him.

We got a mid/high 2nd rounder for Ronald Dupree. I don't see why we couldn't at least get that.


1. We robbed the Twolves blind on that deal.

2. MO's value isnt even as high as dupree's.

is Okafur even available? wasnt he top draft pick?

and how do you guys feel about Jamal Magloire?

I'd go for a lot of the names mentioned above in exchange for Sheed. Okafur, CV, Odom, Frye, Randolph.

What we need is for Davidson to sell the team to an owner that is willing to pay the luxury tax.

is Okafur even available? wasnt he top draft pick?

and how do you guys feel about Jamal Magloire?

I'd go for a lot of the names mentioned above in exchange for Sheed. Okafur, CV, Odom, Frye, Randolph.


There is speculation that Okafor could be dealt for a guy like Ben but only if Bob Johnson is willing to spend, which he has yet to indicate. Funny thing is Bob Johnson is in danger of pissing off the board of governors if he doesn't spend because he made promises not to alienate the people of Cha, and promised not to give the fans reason not to show up for the new franchise.

If we got Jamaal Magloire, I'd consider suicide.

This dude has no problem putting the blame squarely on Dumars and the conceited ego crazed Pistons (His Words).

http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060604/COLUMNIST09/606040402/-1/SPORTS09

Dumars critics get their chance after loss to Heat


It appears Detroit Pistons president of basketball operations Joe Dumars will have to wait until next season to prove that he's still a basketball genius.


Today, everyone is going to second-guess Dumars for replacing Larry Brown with Flip Saunders after Brown led Detroit to one NBA title and back-to-back trips to the finals, with trading Darko Milicic after only two seasons despite the Pistons needing more frontcourt scoring, and for drafting Milicic ahead of Dwyane Wade.


The second-guessers will suggest the Pistons would have had a better chance to win a second title in three years if they had retained Brown.

Dumars believed Saunders was a suitable replacement for Brown, despite Saunders' losing postseason record.



He believed Saunders would pick up where Brown left off. That the Pistons were a veteran, self-contained ballclub that would play hard for any coach. And, more important, Dumars was so confident in the team he constructed he believed just about anyone could coach the Pistons.

Dumars was wrong. The Pistons didn't make it back to the finals after being eliminated by Wade's Miami Heat in the Eastern Conference finals Friday night.


The clock is ticking on the Pistons, who are no longer the class of the Eastern Conference.

Miami, led by Shaquille O'Neal and Wade, has caught and passed the Pistons. Cleveland, with LeBron James, could be the Pistons' equal, sooner than later. New Jersey, Chicago, and Washington are also capable of pushing the Pistons.


It all goes back to ego. Detroit's players, coaches, and management believed the hype, that the Pistons were the team to beat in the NBA.

When the Pistons lost to Cleveland in Game 3 of the conference semifinals, Rasheed Wallace's ego prompted him to brashly predict the Pistons would win the next game and wouldn't return to play another game in Cleveland.



Not only did the Pistons lose the next game, they lost three in a row to Cleveland, and they were forced to defeat the Cavaliers in seven hard games.


The Cleveland series taxed the Pistons, physically and mentally. It showed in their lack of energy and focus in losing to Miami in six games.

Ego also led Ben Wallace to defy Saunders and refuse to re-enter a game late in the regular season. Wallace's lack of respect for Dumars' hand-picked coach helped explain why Detroit struggled in the second half of the season, going 22-9 over its final 31 games after posting a 42-9 record through mid-February.


And ego led Dumars to give up on Milicic, a talented 7-footer with a big upside, without giving him a fair chance to prove he couldn't play.

An ego will grow when you slip a championship ring on a general manager's finger. A general manager with a ring believes he can do no wrong.

Dumars believed he was justified in trading Milicic because the Pistons were trying to win another championship, and he believed Milicic couldn't help a team that already had Ben Wallace, Rasheed Wallace, and Antonio McDyess.


In 30 games with Orlando, Milicic, who scored a total of 37 points with Detroit this season, averaged 7.6 points, 4.1 rebounds, 2.07 blocks, and shot 50.7 percent from the field while averaging 20.9 minutes a game.

Those numbers indicate Milicic could have helped the Pistons, whose lack of frontcourt scoring against Miami was glaring.


The 2003 draft was a double jeopardy for the Pistons.

First, they took Milicic with the No. 2 pick instead of Wade (or Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh, Josh Howard, etc.).

Second, they never gave Milicic a legitimate chance to prove he could play.


Even if Dumars felt the Pistons were strong at two-guard with Richard Hamilton, how could he ignore Wade's obvious talent? Unless Dumars didn't have a good feel for Wade, which is in itself an indictment on Dumars' ability (or inability) to evaluate college talent, especially high first-round talent (see Rodney White and Mateen Cleaves).


Next season can't come soon enough for Dumars and the Pistons.

And ego led Dumars to give up on Milicic

You gotta be fucking kidding me.

How the fuck is that ego?

I think the of the article premise is correct, bottomline is unless the Magic pick turns into a great contributor the Darko pick will be Joe's ultimate downfall. The Cleaves and White picks could be overlooked because they turned into elements of our championships. All that can be said of the Darko picks is if we pick insert another name we wouldn't have traded for Sheed.

what a fuckin idiot.

Wallace's lack of respect for Dumars' hand-picked coach helped explain why Detroit struggled in the second half of the season, going 22-9 over its final 31 games after posting a 42-9 record through mid-February.
a 71% winning percentage (vs 82%) is stuggling??

Dumars will likely have a good pick in a very deep draft next year. He could still redeem himself for that.

While We can all agree he fucked up in 2003, that doesnt even come CLOSE to outweighing all his brilliant moves before and after.

Ego led to Dumars holding onto Sucko much longer than he should have. Megabust should've been dealt after the 04 season to shore up the weak bench. Instead Dumars held out hope that the worthless piece of Euro trash would work his way into a front court rotation of Dice and Wallace X2. Dumars fucked up the Nevicic situation every step of the way.

And that Orlando pick won't give us shit. Joe can't draft regardless of how loaded the draft is.

I'm pretty sure your theory that Darko has no ability has been shot down by now....

He's not worthless.

Yeah 8 and 4 from a guy picked #2 in on of the most loaded drafts of the past 20 years in his 3rd year for a lottery team isn't a bust. Darko is a piece of shit.

Wallace's lack of respect for Dumars' hand-picked coach helped explain why Detroit struggled in the second half of the season, going 22-9 over its final 31 games after posting a 42-9 record through mid-February.
a 71% winning percentage (vs 82%) is stuggling??
It gets even dumber if you factor out the garbage games. Assume we went 3-1 (winning against Toronto and either Milwaukee or Washington) instead of 1-3 for the final games that didn't matter for home court purposes. We'd have end with a 24-7 record and it'd be 77%.

is Okafur even available? wasnt he top draft pick?

and how do you guys feel about Jamal Magloire?

I'd go for a lot of the names mentioned above in exchange for Sheed. Okafur, CV, Odom, Frye, Randolph.

There is speculation that Okafor could be dealt for a guy like Ben but only if Bob Johnson is willing to spend, which he has yet to indicate. Funny thing is Bob Johnson is in danger of pissing off the board of governors if he doesn't spend because he made promises not to alienate the people of Cha, and promised not to give the fans reason not to show up for the new franchise.

Charlotte's salary cap was $37 mill. Thier total team salary was $33 mill this year. His stated plan from day 1 was to wait to blow his wad until his team finally got the right to use the full cap.

What we need is for Davidson to sell the team to an owner that is willing to pay the luxury tax.

That would be a good start, but up to this point, has it really hurt us much? I can't think of a primo guy we had the money to get and chose not to. At this point, it seems like he won't go over for a fringe player like Carlos Arroyo and I'm fine with that. It remains to be scene what happens when he have the chance to make a big move and what he does with that.

Charlotte's salary cap was $37 mill. Thier total team salary was $33 mill this year. His stated plan from day 1 was to wait to blow his wad until his team finally got the right to use the full cap.

There are reports out today (can be found on Hoopshype) that the Bobcats (and some other Johnson holdings) are hemorraging cash and are in dire straights.

Las Vegas here they come!!

I wonder if the Hornets having a good season and Chris Paul having a ROY season kept a lot of fans from converting over to bobcat fans.

Yeah 8 and 4 from a guy picked #2 in on of the most loaded drafts of the past 20 years in his 3rd year for a lottery team isn't a bust. Darko is a piece of shit.

He put up Dice numbers plus over 2 blocks a game in less than Dice minutes. More importantly, that shitty team seemed to become unbeatable once they got him. Beating every good team out there. Detroit, Miami, San Antonio, Dallas, etc. I know I hated watching Orlando games on league pass because all I heard announcers talk about is how stupid Detroit is for giving him away. I tend to agree, but I still hold on to hope that we can get something good with that Orlando pick.

He's far from Bosh, Wade, Melo, etc at this point, but he ain't the HVC anymore.