Purely hypothetical.

Assume the salaries match, no other factors.

Would you do it?

We can't sign and trade Ben plus a player for KG. My idea was to try and trade Sheed/Evans/Orlando pick/somebody to Minny and Ben to Chicago for Nocioni and somebody else of decent value (Deng or Gordon if possible). I know they need work, but those are just my beginning ideas...

I didn't think so either, but here's how WTFChris explained it to me earlier:



Also, how would we do a "Wallaces for KG" deal this summer? Once we re-sign Ben, he can only be traded by himself, right?


Wrong. We can still extend him after the season is done but before July 1 I think.

A six or seven year contract can be extended when at least four years have passed since the signing of the contract. A four or five year contract can be extended when at least three years have passed since the signing of the contract. Contracts for fewer than four seasons may not be extended. A contract which has already been extended can be extended again after three years. The extension may be signed up to June 30, the day before the player would have become a free agent.

So if we could get him to agree to an extension before he becomes a FA, he could be packaged. Not likely, but this is a hypothetical stemming from the other thread (Gutz wondering why we would even consider it).

No and everyone who says yes is smoking crack mixed with that new dirty heroine circulating on the streets. KG is damn good, but you're either underrating our bigs or overrating KG.

i would have done it last year, but not this year.

No and everyone who says yes is smoking crack mixed with that new dirty heroine circulating on the streets. KG is damn good, but you're either underrating our bigs or overrating KG.

Man you are really confusing me now.

I could swear in the other thread that you said that we are overrating our bigs and underrating KG, and now the exact opposite?



not as much or even close to kg. We love them but i think we overrate how they are looked at around the league in market value. I thought we did that last offseason too when we were on the kg thread stuff.

And Toronto can add to the deal all day IMO. If they want to make it happen, i think they can. Even if it becomes a 3 way. that pick and Charlie V hold more weight and are light years more likely to be sought after than us giving up rasheed and/or ben.

Gutz so are they Geezers (Wallaces) or not? In one thread you say they have no value in the next you are saying we are under-rating them or over rating KG. I don't get playing devil's advocate for the sake of being different.

Ideally i'd like to keep one Wallace and have the other one shipped off for an honest to god low post offensive threat (who can rebound as well).

It would be awesome if we could find some way to get KG in a deal for one Wallace and (non-starter) filler but that would never happen.

With a post threat like KG on board, I think Chauncey could win multiple MVPs along with our championships.

let me also add that this is another sad case of automatically equating one thing to another. Theres no legitimate proof that we are better with kg vs the wallaces. there is proof that we are right now still a team good enough to challenge for the title as is. game 6 of the eastern conference finals is a failure if we stop there or even in game 7. but overhaul doesnt fix the clusterfuck that cost us some wins. And KG doesnt either, give up more of our defensive identity for kg?
we beat miami because we got stops. our biggest momentum play was ben Blocking Shaq. Tayshaun doesn't have to duke it out with mourning because sheed has his back(not in the3 dumb stephen jackson way either). these guys are still a group. they slipped up more than they should've. and expected Flip to be better than he is. That partially their fault. but outside of that, they havent lost their touch yet. i'd still back this group for the next two seasons easy. but thats me:p

Gutz so are they Geezers (Wallaces) or not? In one thread you say they have no value in the next you are saying we are under-rating them or over rating KG. I don't get playing devil's advocate for the sake of being different.
you're missing the point. i said "the league" value of them is different than ours. i said this last offseason too. We have more use of them than the league. we are considered to be overpaying tayshaun and sheed. Only teams with humongous cap room would try to nab ben wallace. but no team oustide of that is gambling on him. What they are worth to us doesnt equate to the rest of the nba. thats what i'm saying. And i consider them pretty valuable to us.

With a post threat like KG on board, I think Chauncey could win multiple MVPs along with our championships.
why would he be in the post? lol...he'd be shooting 3's all the same and would be in the post about as much as sheed.

If we're having tons of problems due to these cats, then sure.
What are these Pistons without Ben though? Also, I'm not sure about
you all, but Garnett and Dyess as a frontcourt is pretty gangsta IMO.

We need to keep Lindsey, Delk, Cato and add a shooter and slasher.
Hopefully Acker's our shooter and Johnson's our slasher along with
Maxiell who will bring absolute death to the opponents in the next
couple of years. I'm sure he'll get some run next year.

Garnett/Cato
McDyess/Maxiell
Prince/Johnson/Evans
Hamilton/Acker
Billups/Delk/Hunter


The 5 is good. The bench is shaky at best. We would need some
offensive production off the bench. I think that these cats have
defensive mentalities. We need a big like Delk. Someone who can
come in, but not only score, but score deep in the paint all day.

I don't understand why we haven't used Cato. He's back from injury...
he's huge. He's a good shotblocker. He's an adequate scorer who is
in my opinion better than Battie or Blount. He's that type of player though.

He's not a star by any means, but you all don't think he'd be helping us
right now? I really don't get that. Dale Davis is a big dude, but Cato
makes him look average size wise. Furthermore, Cato's younger and
more talented. There must be some kind of alienation with him.



Scenario #1:

*Cato puts a Ben wig* "Sorry I'm not Darko y'all, but I got mad jokes!"
Lindsey, "It's all good Cato...thanks for trying." *puts head down*


Scenario #2:

"Fuck y'all punk bitches. I'm Cato! Y'all ain't shit without me!"
*Ben punches him in the chest* "STFU N00B!!!1"


Scenario #3:
"Uh, coach. I'm not ready to play yet so just run Dale. I'm chillin. $$.

what about:

Chauncey/Lindsey/Acker (Hudson/Jaric)
Hamilton/Delk/Acker
Tayshaun/Delfino/Amir
KG/Dice/Maxiell
Davis/Dice/Cato

if we have KG who can put up 20/10, all we really need is a center who can get a double double occasionally and be a solid defender. i wonder how much gas Davis has left in the tank......IF we somehow got KG, the TWolves might want to get rid of Hudson or Jaric too, right? either of those guys can back up Chauncey at the point.

I suppose one could make an argument that, better sooner than later, the Pistons need to begin rebuilding the frontcourt with younger players still on the upswing. KG is a helluva player, but Toronto wants to deal their #1.

The more I think about it, Cato is worth shit now...(should belong in the other thread)

We cant have DD starting unless we have a real backup for him. Dice is good but what if one of those fall to an injury? We are fucked.

Trading 2 bigs for one...:(

I'll admit I'm surprised by the early results.

McHale's on the phone offering KG and I put him on hold while I'm thanking Ben and Rasheed for their efforts and getting KG's jersey ready.

"Ben, we'll see you back here in about 3 years after you retire for the ceremony".

No No No. I was the one that originally posted a Ben S&T for KG but there is no way you give up 2 starting front court players for him.

I would like to remind everyone here that KG is not a pure post threat. KG is more of a face up jump shooter who at times actually shys away from attacking the rim. You get KG to allow Sheed to roam the perimeter all by himself and no attackers cheating off the 5 man on our team

get rid of one or the other not both.

try neither. ya'll are spoiled. wasnt even a decade ago that players didnt wanna play for bill davidson and the supposed shithole backstabbing organization that is the pistons. now you wanna dump the guys laying out there for us for kg like he's the answer to all problems. post threat my ass. he's an ISO perimeter shooter these days. What naive dreamer thinks we wont have him shooting threes all day? :p

blah, you guys think trades answer all things. [smilie=zzz.gif] only thing i like about the kg trade, is how much you're going to diss him when he has a bad streak. how much you're going to expect 20/20 games from him or suggest Joe D should trade him because we can't afford to resign him. how he's holding back amir's progress. And most of all how we woulda won a title if we would have traded another starter. all that would be fun for the next few years. thankfully its not even probable.:)

how many pure post players are left in the NBA? Shrek is one. maybe some immobile centers who really can't do much else but plant their asses in the paint, like Illguaskas. most bigs now a days need an outside jumper like Jermaine O'Neal, Bosh, and KG.

all i really care about is that KG averages 20pts 12reb 5asts 1.5blks 1.5stls shoots just about 50% FG AND his career FT% is like 80%. 80%!?!?

put a cast like Chauncey, Rip, and Tayshaun around him?? dude is like Sheed, Ben, and Dice put together voltron-style. the only thing we're missing is Sheed's three point shooting. but weren't we all complaining about that in the first place?

if KG's putting up 20ppg from the PF spot, all we need is a big center who can block shots and maybe work the offensive boards. i say let Dale Davis start and keep Dice as our 6th man. looking at Davis' career numbers, i think he can supply about 30 minutes a game as a starter.

anyways, i still think the chance that KG is a Piston next season is like 1%.

i really think that all the ugliness that has started to emerge, especially from Ben (during this series and bits from the regular season) has people worried about the future.....and people are more willing to see Ben gone.

not that people are hoping Ben is traded.....just that it could be more likley, i guess.

If we trade both both Ben and Sheed I would want a Dwight Howard style young PF, rather than KG. KG would be great(Davis minimum add in to me for that deal), but Howard, Bosh, or somone like that would be our needed target.

It's possible that we'll get nothing for Ben at all (Chicago), and losing Sheed's caustic personality and "I'll try every 5th game or so" -attitude could actually be addition by subtraction.

Matt, you and I are on the same page, and I think JS is too.

That being said, you still need to vote Matt, lol.

how many pure post players are left in the NBA? Shrek is one. maybe some immobile centers who really can't do much else but plant their asses in the paint, like Illguaskas. most bigs now a days need an outside jumper like Jermaine O'Neal, Bosh, and KG.

The issue with KG isn't post skills but his style of play.

He is more of a finesse player that shys away from contact. Sheed, even with his enimity towards post play, is much more of a physical player than him.

That said, I am still open to trading one of the Wallaces, just not both.

if we're choosing between Sheed's offensive game and KG's offensive game, i'd rather take KG who shoots above 50% FG, whether it be back to the basket, 10 foot jumpers, or 15 foot jumpers.

Sheed's been shooting under 45% FG and he had a career high in three point attempts this season. sheed might have a more physical, traditional post game than KG, but how often do we even see that?

i hate that it's come down to this, because i LOVE ben and sheed. but ben's off court antics have really been worrisome with a fat contract coming soon. i mean, we'd be reaming a player like Shrek or Wade if he were criticizing Riley in the middle of the series. and sheed has just disappeared from the pistons. it's one of those points when one season might be the difference between staying at the top of the NBA of going on a downward spiral.

anyways, i'm going to focus on game 6 now and worry about this stuff later. so, "I have to see how the playoffs play out to decide", Glenn :)

Ben and Sheed for KG? Sure, why not.

Ben can't fucking score and Sheed is the biggest SG in the league.

How about we get rid of both and get a legit MVP candidate that loves our Coach, loves our MVP candidate (Billups) and knows the offense inside out.

KG would also get the love from the refs and I actually think he'd cream his pants if he found out he was gonna be a Piston.

KG + Dice + Mad Max?

Awesome.

^That's what I'm talking about.

Look, I love Ben, he's my favourite Piston. But the dude couldn't score with a $2 whore. It's fucking terrible watching him shoot FT's. I could hit the same percentage with my fucking eyes closed.

So he plays good D. He usually leads by example. Heart and soul, passion and pride and all that good shit.

But in this league and at this time you need to be more of a threat offensively. He just can't do that.

And Sheed reminds me of my cousin - the best post scorer on the floor but afraid of contact so he shoots 3's all game. Fucking pussy!

Be a fucking man and dominate, at least until we actually make the Finals. Then be a cunt and do nothing for 2 games. Don't shut it down early.

Fuck, Sheed is the most frustrating player to watch for me, probably because I saw him back in the days when he actually wanted to be a low-post player and not a SG.

The 2 of them bring a lot to this team, but what Sheed brings we don't need or want and what Ben beings isn't enough.

It's sad, but such is life.

Seriously, I probably shoot 70% or so on FT's with my eyes closed. I just don't understand how one can be so bad at them. If we can't sign and trade Ben plus a player, though, this discussion is moot--unless Minny would take something like Sheed/Amir/Evans/Orlando pick for KG. If that were the case, I'd also try to move Ben to Chicago for some younger pieces (Deng?/Nocioni?/Chandler?).

e-ray: I did a Ben + others to Minny for KG and scraps and it worked under the CBA (seperate deals to suit the S&T rules)

Chicago would be a nice option. Division rival though, so it would be weird.

I think it depends on what kind of contract Ben's gonna get for one thing. Sheed and Dice won't be around forever, Chauncey either for that matter. If we did do this trade, you would have to go out and get a true rebounding/defensive center imo and play KG at PF. Dice would still be your sixth.

Whatever you do, you have to look at the team you're gonna have and consider the "new" rules and teams like Cleveland, Miami, and Dallas, and how you're going to stack up against them in the playoffs over the next couple years. You can't just go by numbers especially regular season numbers, which is why imo you have to look at moving Sheed who's done little this postseason.

And wtf is the deal with Gatzu, do you even like the Pistons?

What about being able to pick up Al Harrington(MLE), and playing a mix of Davis, Cato?, Maxiell, and maybe a pick at center, and also moving KG to C with Al at PF.

Yes I do realize that most think that Al wants to 'get paid', but he has shown a LOT of interest in playing for the 'Stones, and would have a shot at the Finals that he wants.

I would love to add Al, but I wonder where he fits on our roster. He likes to play PF, not SF, and its questionable whether he or Dice would be better at backup. I just don't see it unless some of our bigs are moved.

Al Harrington is out of our price range at the MLE. With that said we could get him in a S&T with ATL if we were able to move Sheed or Dice to them or in a three way deal. I can't see Al coming here for the MLE to be a reserve. He is still young enough that he doesn't have to do that. Plus Chicago is a talented team with oney to spend. Zeke would give up Frye and filler for Al so I think Al has alot of options.

Sheed and Ben for KG is a steal, but let's not fool ourselves in thinking we could pull it off.....

Yeah, like Ben would agree to play in minnesota.

Anyone who thinks you can just plug Dale Davis or Cato at starting center and be fine even if you have KG is just not thinking through this all the way. That's not gonna do it, you must keep either Sheed or Ben.

Anyone who thinks you can just plug Dale Davis or Cato at starting center and be fine even if you have KG is just not thinking through this all the way. That's not gonna do it, you must keep either Sheed or Ben.
Maybe I'm thinking of another KG. I was thinking of that one that almost took the 3-headed-monster of the Candy Man, Mad Dog Madsen, and Ervin Johnson to the NBA Finals.

There isn't a chance of getting him, but we wouldn't need an all-star center next to KG. We just need somebody who can play D, grab rebounds, and hit open shots.

I think we need to go for KG. Anything less than him and we don't have a shot at another title, methinks. We just wouldn't be good enough.

The Wolves would never trade KG for the slop we'd offer. If he is traded this off-season he'll be wearing a Bulls uni next year.

Sheed and Ben for KG is a steal, but let's not fool ourselves in thinking we could pull it off.....

Yeah, like Ben would agree to play in minnesota.

I am not saying that you are wrong or that a deal will happen but from everything I have heard Ben's ego has surpassed his fro in size. He has divided the locker room and has become quite jealous of the attention and acclaim others have recieved including Billups, when he feels it is his team. So if his ego is that big and he thinks he is that important he might just look at Minny as a place he show all the critics he was why Detroit was that good.