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vs.
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theme music by:
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the Ron Artest Tru Warrior Orchestra

It is do or die, imo. Maybe we could go down 3-1 to the Cavs, but that would be a huge hole against Superman and Wade.

If we were playing like we did during the season, it wouldn't be as big a deal, but we aren't.

I think we're gonna win tonight and a win in G5, but the way our team is playing, I'm not counting on anything.

May I be the first to say bravo on the OGT, Mr. Gatsu.

Oh, and Pistons win this one by 4, and close this biatch out in 7.

we had plenty of free time between last game and this one to bicker and rant. Now its time to get amped up for the adversity and be careful how many cans of energy drink and pills viagra you conserve. Because your heart rate will be fucked up as it is. Tough game, tough atmosphere, and the media is very interested in seeing our demise. Time to take it to the next level or die a lil' more with each loss. Its life or death when you're amped. do or die isnt powerful enough. i almost regret not putting kill or be killed.:(

Tonight we need to get rid of the bizarro world pistons and get back to dropping that motor city Kryptonian Funk.

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Rasheed vs Dwayne Wade part 4


and i wanna see ben wallace everywhere damnit.
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I belive.

I believe.

Tonight's the turnaround game for all these offensive woes and our defensive tenacity. Pistons break 100 points and never look back.

Just share the ball and show some defensive intensity. That's where we hang our hard hats on after all.


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I will root hard, but something just isn't clicking all of a sudden. Their buckets are much easier to come by than ours. I think it's the beginning of the end.

I know the answer to this one DEATH, DEATH and DEATH. Turn out the lights the party is over.

The Heat are already at 34 FTAs and its not even the 4th yet. This is ridiculous.

So, what do you guys plan to do with your june?

hunt down and break the kneecaps of every official from tonight's fix/game?

Sounds like a blast!

hunt down and break the kneecaps of every official from tonight's fix/game?

Of course it's the Ref's fault!

The Pistons can't even sustain a modest effort for more than 2 consecutive qtrs. This is going on 9 games in a row now. The ref's excuse is mighty lame.

Hunt down Rasheed and break his knees please.

yeah, but its awfully easy for miami to hack us on every other shot and create running opportunities. Any team can look really good when there's that much of a difference in how you're allowed to play.

Tonight's offense wasnt bad as it was just Miami grabbing ar our arms and forcing us to look bad. If we could do the same thing to them, We'd have won by 20.

I thought Flip's defensive adjustments in the 2nd half worked great, he just wasn't allowed to keep his best players in the game, and the Heat eventually broke through.

Maybe losing in the Finals wasnt good enough for the pistons? They seem to be taking the 1st 3 rounds of the playoffs for granted, like they're just going to win and get back to the finals no problem. Maybe losing before the finals and going home is a good thing. Get their collective heads right over the summer.

They need to get back to their defensive roots. Had that been the pistons 2 years ago, the heat would have been in the 70's right along with them.

The 2004 Pistons were also allowed to play defense.

Put that team in this game and they probably lose by 20. I dont see how they could expect to win since half the team would foul out by halftime.

And it sickens me that the refs were so freaking bad that im not mentioning how badly we looked. THey gave the players and flip a crutch they didnt deserve.

I'd love to bash sheed, but he wasnt allowed to stay in the game so I have no idea what he would have done.

Put sheed in a miami jersey, and he might have 2 fouls doing the same things.

Flip's plan is brilliant -- but you must view it with objective eyes to understand it's genius:

First, take as many jump shots as possible, and from that have half of them be 3pt attempts. This keeps the Pistons from sapping their energy with greuling inside play and hard drives to the basket.

Second, foul DWade as hard as you can. Even if he's not injured, you're weaking him with each slug. By game five he should only be a shell of his former self.

Third, the Pistons play their best when the proverbial "chips" are down, so a 3-1 series deficit only means the Pistons will finally play like they should.

Fourth, dress better than RiLeY. This will eventually get to "the king of style", and in his demented state of being "had" fashionably by some dude named "Flip", call a horrible final 3 games.

I believe this to be the perfect plan, similar to that of General Morgan at the Battle of Cowpens during the Revolutionary War, or that of Patton at the Battle of the Bulge during WW2. Flip will go down in history as the master architect of deceptive warfare.

Or, he'll get shot for being outcoached by a Metamucil-chugging geriatric.

Your choice.

Flip's probably gone if they lose the series.

If they lose game 5, he probably won't last a week.

hunt down and break the kneecaps of every official from tonight's fix/game?

Of course it's the Ref's fault!

The Pistons can't even sustain a modest effort for more than 2 consecutive qtrs. This is going on 9 games in a row now. The ref's excuse is mighty lame.

Hunt down Rasheed and break his knees please.

Effort or not, the team that fouled the least this year by far somehow managed to allow 47 FTs, which I believe is the second most in the playoffs this year and what has to be the largest FT differential. The Heat almost took as many FTs as they did FGs. Of course there are going to be a few iffy calls here and there, but this game was chock full of one-sided calls.

I vote for Bill Lambieer. All these jump shots are probably making him puke!

Bah, Flip gets no free pass but lets really look at whats happening here.

I see a Miami team that's hungrier and has been getting after it much more than the Pistons. The Heat are out-shooting, playing better defense, diving for more loose balls, more blocks and the list keeps going. The Heat want it more fellas and are embarassing the Pistons right now which has lead to the finger pointing and questioning of the coach. Flip blows but the players have no heart.

What a debacle from a so called future dynasty.

Just watched some of the news conference with Flip. He speaks like th HEAT are the top seeded team, and the Pistons are just lucky to be there.

Does this sonofabitch have any FIRE????? He's just sitting there, complimenting WaDe, talking about how he's proud his guys never gave up, and how dejected they must have been in the final few minutes.

Where the fuck is Jim Mora when we need him???? If that was Bill Lambieer, he'd be talking mass shit about HIS OWN TEAM, CALLING THEM PUSSIES FOR NOT WORKING AS HARD AS HE DID WHEN HE WAS A PLAYER. That's a guilt trip you simply cannot buy.

I'm spelling Lambieer right...right?

Does this sonofabitch have any FIRE????? He's just sitting there, complimenting WaDe

You never listened to a larry brown press conference, did you?


If that was Bill Lambieer, he'd be talking mass shit about HIS OWN TEAM, CALLING THEM PUSSIES FOR NOT WORKING AS HARD AS HE DID WHEN HE WAS A PLAYER. That's a guilt trip you simply cannot buy.

Carlisle did that to the pistons once and they responded by losing 7 straight and tuning him out.

Players can cuss out other players after a game. Coaches cant do that. In the huddle is one thing, but after the game in the press? No way.

LOL @ Kstat.


LOL even harder @ this pathetic joke of a fucking basketball team.

Carlisle did that to the pistons once and they responded by losing 7 straight and tuning him out.

Players can cuss out other players after a game. Coaches cant do that.

And exactly what kind of stats did Carlisle put out when HE was a player on one of the most feared teams in history?

Carlisle did that to the pistons once and they responded by losing 7 straight and tuning him out.

Players can cuss out other players after a game. Coaches cant do that.

And exactly what kind of stats did Carlisle put out when HE was a player on one of the most feared teams in history?

What does that have to do with anything?

LOL even harder @ this pathetic joke of a fucking basketball team.

Disagree. The Spurs have had their asses handed to them the past several years (except last year, of course), and they continue to retain their core unit. The San Antonio management knows that sometimes series don't go your way. Popovich is a fantastic coach. Duncan is...er, Duncan. Parker is a fine guard. Manu is STILL the king of flop...etc etc. I expect no forced changes with the Spurs unit over the off-season. And next year, they'll probably be back in the WCF.

And I FUCKING HATE THE SPURS!!!!!!

Carlisle did that to the pistons once and they responded by losing 7 straight and tuning him out.

Players can cuss out other players after a game. Coaches cant do that.
And exactly what kind of stats did Carlisle put out when HE was a player on one of the most feared teams in history?
What does that have to do with anything?
You're kidding, right?

Lambieer would be respected enough to get away with that kinda shit from time to time. He'd shove game tapes of his playing days down their fucking bitchmade throats and say "See, you motherfuckers!!!! THAT is how you play the fucking game!!!!"

Also, with JoeD at the top, no player would be able to get away with any primadonna shit. They get a one way ticket to Potland if they pulled any bitchjob. The "Bad Boys" would be back.

Carlisle did that to the pistons once and they responded by losing 7 straight and tuning him out.

Players can cuss out other players after a game. Coaches cant do that.
And exactly what kind of stats did Carlisle put out when HE was a player on one of the most feared teams in history?
What does that have to do with anything?
You're kidding, right?

Lambieer would be respected enough to get away with that kinda shit from time to time. He'd shove game tapes of his playing days down their fucking bitchmade throats and say "See, you motherfuckers!!!! THAT is how you play the fucking game!!!!"

Also, with JoeD at the top, no player would be able to get away with any primadonna shit. They get a one way ticket to Potland if they pulled any bitchjob. The "Bad Boys" would be back.

Most of those guys probably grew up hating Laimbeer, so they wouldnt like him goign in.

And today's rules don't apply to yesteryear, so all we'd be doing is setting ourselves up to foul out all the time.

I've seen Bill's offensive sets that he uses with the shock. They're good sets, but they dont meet our personnel. They depend on having big strong post scorers.

Dont get me wrong, I think the shock play awesome physical brand of ball. They are really fun to watch, because they actually play like a men's team in the paint. I just don't think it would work because we dont have any tall strong rebounders that can live in the paint.

Bill's teams also live at the foul line, which is something we can all agree would not be a good idea for this team. He kept calling plays for his power forward once and she went 0-10 from the FT line, and bill kept on running her play. I can only imagine what he'd do with ben wallace.

Carlisle did that to the pistons once and they responded by losing 7 straight and tuning him out.

Players can cuss out other players after a game. Coaches cant do that.
And exactly what kind of stats did Carlisle put out when HE was a player on one of the most feared teams in history?
What does that have to do with anything?
You're kidding, right?

Lambieer would be respected enough to get away with that kinda shit from time to time. He'd shove game tapes of his playing days down their fucking bitchmade throats and say "See, you motherfuckers!!!! THAT is how you play the fucking game!!!!"

Also, with JoeD at the top, no player would be able to get away with any primadonna shit. They get a one way ticket to Potland if they pulled any bitchjob. The "Bad Boys" would be back.
Most of those guys probably grew up hating Laimbeer, so they wouldnt like him goign in.

And today's rules don't apply to yesteryear, so all we'd be doing is setting ourselves up to foul out all the time.

I've seen Bill's offensive sets that he uses with the shock. They're good sets, but they dont meet our personnel. They depend on having big strong post scorers.

Dont get me wrong, I think the shock play awesome physical brand of ball. They are really fun to watch, because they actually play like a men's team in the paint. I just don't think it would work because we dont have any tall strong rebounders that can live in the paint.

"Like" has nothing to do with "respect".

And I've been spelling Laimbeer wrong all this time. Thanks a fucking lot.

Carlisle did that to the pistons once and they responded by losing 7 straight and tuning him out.

Players can cuss out other players after a game. Coaches cant do that.
And exactly what kind of stats did Carlisle put out when HE was a player on one of the most feared teams in history?
What does that have to do with anything?
You're kidding, right?

Lambieer would be respected enough to get away with that kinda shit from time to time. He'd shove game tapes of his playing days down their fucking bitchmade throats and say "See, you motherfuckers!!!! THAT is how you play the fucking game!!!!"

Also, with JoeD at the top, no player would be able to get away with any primadonna shit. They get a one way ticket to Potland if they pulled any bitchjob. The "Bad Boys" would be back.
Most of those guys probably grew up hating Laimbeer, so they wouldnt like him goign in.

And today's rules don't apply to yesteryear, so all we'd be doing is setting ourselves up to foul out all the time.

I've seen Bill's offensive sets that he uses with the shock. They're good sets, but they dont meet our personnel. They depend on having big strong post scorers.

Dont get me wrong, I think the shock play awesome physical brand of ball. They are really fun to watch, because they actually play like a men's team in the paint. I just don't think it would work because we dont have any tall strong rebounders that can live in the paint.

"Like" has nothing to do with "respect".

And I've been spelling Laimbeer wrong all this time. Thanks a fucking lot.

I think Lamb's antics would wear on the team big-time.

I also think we have a team opposite to the kind of ball he coaches. If Rasheed wasnt going into the post for shots 15 times per game, it wouldnt work at all.

And Ive never been yelled at for NOT correcting someone's spelling before....

Carlisle did that to the pistons once and they responded by losing 7 straight and tuning him out.

Players can cuss out other players after a game. Coaches cant do that.
And exactly what kind of stats did Carlisle put out when HE was a player on one of the most feared teams in history?
What does that have to do with anything?
You're kidding, right?

Lambieer would be respected enough to get away with that kinda shit from time to time. He'd shove game tapes of his playing days down their fucking bitchmade throats and say "See, you motherfuckers!!!! THAT is how you play the fucking game!!!!"

Also, with JoeD at the top, no player would be able to get away with any primadonna shit. They get a one way ticket to Potland if they pulled any bitchjob. The "Bad Boys" would be back.
Most of those guys probably grew up hating Laimbeer, so they wouldnt like him goign in.

And today's rules don't apply to yesteryear, so all we'd be doing is setting ourselves up to foul out all the time.

I've seen Bill's offensive sets that he uses with the shock. They're good sets, but they dont meet our personnel. They depend on having big strong post scorers.

Dont get me wrong, I think the shock play awesome physical brand of ball. They are really fun to watch, because they actually play like a men's team in the paint. I just don't think it would work because we dont have any tall strong rebounders that can live in the paint.
"Like" has nothing to do with "respect".

And I've been spelling Laimbeer wrong all this time. Thanks a fucking lot.
I think Lamb's antics would wear on the team big-time.

ANd Ive never been yelled at for NOT correcting someone's spelling before....

I'm not Anthony, and damn proud of thayt;)

I fucking give up on this team.

We have no heart/fire on this team right now. Example: Zo misses a shot or something, the whistle blows, he grabs the ball goes through a couple of guys and dunks the ball on us in a stoppage in play. WTF?

That shit shouldn't happen. This is the playoffs and we are acting like a bunch of pussies.

Just saying, if we want lambs as the next coach, Sheed definately has to go, and Ben will probably be moved to power forward.

I fucking give up on this team.

Why shouldn't we all? They appear to have given up.

Just saying, if we want lambs as the next coach, Sheed definately has to go, and Ben will probably be moved to power forward.

Ben might go too. He isn't exactly tearing it up. Not even close.

I fucking give up on this team.
Why shouldn't we all? They appear to have given up.

I blame Flipper for that. The brains of every team is it's coach. There's a reason why the TWolves never made it past the second round.

Waitaminute. Did they ever MAKE IT to the second round?

If soldiers don't believe their general, the battle is lost before it's begun.

Just saying, if we want lambs as the next coach, Sheed definately has to go, and Ben will probably be moved to power forward.

Ben might go too. He isn't exactly tearing it up. Not even close.

Or maybe he's better off playing PF, where he doesn't have to play centers much larger than him for 100 games a year.

I might add his best stats were as a PF with CLiffy playing C.

In either case, he has to make at least %50 from the line. Its officially a problem.

In either case, he has to make at least %50 from the line. Its officially a problem.


We lost our defensive identity. We lost the drive to play defense. If we aren't going to play D, let him get his max deal elsewhere.

In either case, he has to make at least %50 from the line. Its officially a problem.


We lost our defensive identity. We lost the drive to play defense. If we aren't going to play D, let him get his max deal elsewhere.

Silly notion.

Name one team that plays great D. Nobody does. Miami SA and Dallas all win because they shoots over %50 and they have a bunch of scorers. They dont allow any fewer points than we do.

The problem with our players is theyre still under the assumption the NBA cares about defense. Clearly, that's no longer the case.

I'm just speaking hypothetically anyway, this only applies if laimbeer gets hired.

In either case, he has to make at least %50 from the line. Its officially a problem.


We lost our defensive identity. We lost the drive to play defense. If we aren't going to play D, let him get his max deal elsewhere.

Silly notion.

Name one team that plays great D. Nobody does. Miami SA and Dallas all win because they shoots over %50 and they have a bunch of scorers. They dont allow any fewer points than we do.

The problem with our players is theyre still under the assumption the NBA cares about defense. Clearly, that's no longer the case.

I'm just speaking hypothetically anyway, this only applies if laimbeer gets hired.

And so am I...speaking hypothetically...And thanks for making my point. If we aren't going to play D, let Ben go elsewhere and bring in a scorer. Outscore Miami, SA and Dallas.

so NOW will people FINALLY believe that being an all jumpshooting team with no post scoring presence and last in points in the paint is a BAD THING!? These guys are playing like they don't even know how to do basic inside-out basketball, its either jumper, or go iso into the paint. As I recall there were a few people here complaining about this during the regular season, and basically had the regular season record shoved in their face.

Two things might happen here:

Either Flipper pleads his case to JoeD, suggesting that this "isn't HIS team yet", that he should be allowed the requisite 3 year "wait and see" philosophy to get his kind of players in, or:

Fire Flip, and hire a coach who's a better fit with the current team's philosophy.

This team is going to make the playoffs, that's a given. Then the coach takes over, and Flip simply isn't a playoff coach. He is incapable of winning the big games. Can anybody here point to Flip and his gameplan as the "reason" the Pistons won game 7 against the Cavs? Honestly, it never should've gotten past game 6.

When teams look past as opponent, or feel an entitlement that a trip to the Finals is a given -- that's all on the coach!

so NOW will people FINALLY believe that being an all jumpshooting team with no post scoring presence and last in points in the paint is a BAD THING!? These guys are playing like they don't even know how to do basic inside-out basketball, its either jumper, or go iso into the paint. As I recall there were a few people here complaining about this during the regular season, and basically had the regular season record shoved in their face.

The problem isn't how many jumpshots we take (in fact, all 3 of the top jumpshooting teams are still playing), it's how bad our inside game really is. We have one player who can really do it and he'd rather sit 5-feet behind the 3 point line. That and he has only had 2 or 3 good games the whole playoffs.

Our offense would work just fine if Ben Wallace could hit %50 of his FTs.

Seriously, the difference is that thin.

Everybody on the court knows ben cant hit a FT. Ben knows it. His team knows it. The other team knows it. So, theyll leave him wide open to play defense 5 on 4, and when he gets the pass, theyll foul him, and it winds up being a turnover.

Of course, nobody on the team is going to keep on passing it to ben if they know itll wind up being a turnover, so were stuck.

Don't mistake this either: Ben is WIDE open on every play. We just cant give him the ball. No style of play will change that.

Our problem isnt that we dont go inside, its that we dont HAVE an inside game to go to.

so NOW will people FINALLY believe that being an all jumpshooting team with no post scoring presence and last in points in the paint is a BAD THING!? These guys are playing like they don't even know how to do basic inside-out basketball, its either jumper, or go iso into the paint. As I recall there were a few people here complaining about this during the regular season, and basically had the regular season record shoved in their face.
The problem isn't how many jumpshots we take (in fact, all 3 of the top jumpshooting teams are still playing), it's how bad our inside game really is. We have one player who can really do it and he'd rather sit 5-feet behind the 3 point line. That and he has only had 2 or 3 good games the whole playoffs.

Or maybe it's because the Eastern Conference is still the Leastern Conference, and the records of both the pistons AND the Heat are inflated with cupcake V's.

The problem isn't the erratic shooting %, or a lack of an inside scorer, though both contribute. It goes deeper than that. When WaDe is penetrating the paint like Shaq penetrates a Blue Plate Special and coming away with all of his blood still inside his body, something is wrong. The moment when it was apparent that the refs were siding with the Heat (game one?), Flipper should have unleashed the alpacas. It was nice to see WaDe smash into the floor several times tonight, but only AFTER he'd taken his shot. Rule of thumb: any guard willing to drive the hole should be risking his life in the process. After all, the refs are blowing more than Paris Hilton after five blunts, so you may as well foul HARD.

There's a lack of championship effort, here. A lack of ownership. The Pistons should feel, after all of the talk last year of "well, if DWaDe had remained healthy", that they have something to prove against the Heat. Prove that, WITH a healthy DWaDe, the Heat STILL can't beat Detroit!

It's simply not there, and that's too bad. There's still a chance, but I don't think Flipper is a strong enough personality to rally around.

Our offense would work just fine if Ben Wallace could hit %50 of his FTs.

Seriously, the difference is that thin.

Everybody on the court knows ben cant hit a FT. Ben knows it. His team knows it. The other team knows it. So, theyll leave him wide open to play defense 5 on 4, and when he gets the pass, theyll foul him, and it winds up being a turnover.

Of course, nobody on the team is going to keep on passing it to ben if they know itll wind up being a turnover, so were stuck.

Don't mistake this either: Ben is WIDE open on every play. We just cant give him the ball. No style of play will change that.

Our problem isnt that we dont go inside, its that we dont HAVE an inside game to go to.

Worked fine in 2004, and almost as well in 2005.

Our offense would work just fine if Ben Wallace could hit %50 of his FTs.

Seriously, the difference is that thin.

Everybody on the court knows ben cant hit a FT. Ben knows it. His team knows it. The other team knows it. So, theyll leave him wide open to play defense 5 on 4, and when he gets the pass, theyll foul him, and it winds up being a turnover.

Of course, nobody on the team is going to keep on passing it to ben if they know itll wind up being a turnover, so were stuck.

Don't mistake this either: Ben is WIDE open on every play. We just cant give him the ball. No style of play will change that.

Our problem isnt that we dont go inside, its that we dont HAVE an inside game to go to.

Worked fine in 2004, and almost as well in 2005.

Um, our offense was actually WORSE then.

Back then we won games 79-70. Now we're losing them 85-90.

Its the fact the NBA does not allow for one-sided defensive basketball anymore. It is IMPOSSIBLE to succeed with a mediocre offense anymore, because no defense today is able to shut a team down completely, under today's rules.

You saw it out there tonight. We tried to clamp down like we used to, and we only sent Miami to the line 50 times. We will not be permitted to play the same brand of defense we used to. The NBA is making it VERY clear our style of ball isnt going to work any longer.

Death.

I'm so pissed and actually shocked right now.

As much as I feared the reliance on the jumpshot being the downfall of this team, I'm not going to play the "I told you so" card, since even I had no idea that it could get this bad, this fast.

This team is in turmoil.

I vote for Bill Lambieer. All these jump shots are probably making him puke!
As a player, Laimbeer was far more about the jumper than taking it inside.

dale davis deserves the max for finally delivering a hard foul on Wade last night.

nothing dirty, just an honest to goodness, playground type hard foul.

sure that didn't win the game or anything remotely close......but seeing someone (our 3rd string big man) finally decide not to let Wade get easy dunks was refreshing.

You saw it out there tonight. We tried to clamp down like we used to, and we only sent Miami to the line 50 times. We will not be permitted to play the same brand of defense we used to. The NBA is making it VERY clear our style of ball isnt going to work any longer.
i'm starting to agree with this. look at the teams in the conference finals. all can score and shoot a high percentage.

where are the defensive teams like the Pistons, Spurs, Memphis, Pacers, etc.?

do we need to become the Suns? no. i hate to say this, but i do think our problem is more on the offensive end than defensive end. what that translates to for the future of the team, i dunno....

Even successful teams that run and gun get the ball to the rim. If I recall correctly, PHX was amongst the league leaders in points in the paint.

We don't get easy baskets anymore. Period.

A lot of that blame needs to fall on Chauncey, but a lot of it has to do with lack of player and ball movement as well.

Even successful teams that run and gun get the ball to the rim. If I recall correctly, PHX was amongst the league leaders in points in the paint.

We don't get easy baskets anymore. Period.

A lot of that blame needs to fall on Chauncey, but a lot of it has to do with lack of player and ball movement as well.

There were a number of teams who generated more points in the paint - namely the New York Knicks, Golden State Warriors, and Milwaukee Bucks. Not exacly the cream of the NBA crop. The Phoenix Suns are the most jumper heavy team in the NBA (even if you don't like to admit it). Only in the playoffs have they started to go inside more, and that's due in large part to the way teams are playing them. That's the difference between them and us - when they're not hitting jumpers they can find their way into the paint. Same with the just-as-jumper-happy Mavericks. Our team, on the other hand, seems to get tighter and tighter and further away from the net.

Effort or not, the team that fouled the least this year by far somehow managed to allow 47 FTs, which I believe is the second most in the playoffs this year and what has to be the largest FT differential. The Heat almost took as many FTs as they did FGs. Of course there are going to be a few iffy calls here and there, but this game was chock full of one-sided calls.
Apart from the Ben-Shaq matchup, which had a number of typical Shaq bullshit calls (Shaq not called for that ever-present off-arm, Ben getting called for doing decent D), that wasn't really the case. This wasn't Game 3, where our runs were responded to with repeated Miami blowjobs by the refs.

We lost because we'd play fine D on Wade and he'd make some really tough shots.

We lost because we'd focus too much on one matchup and they'd get to the open man in Haslem.

We lost because we didn't do the work to win.

I'm glad that there aren't a bunch of you here blaming the loss(es) squarely on the officiating.

Did we get a bit of an unfair whistle? You bet.

Did we play hard enough/well enough to win? Nope.

We've had our asses handed to us by a team that wants it more. No excuses.

LOL@Pistons, indeed.

Effort or not, the team that fouled the least this year by far somehow managed to allow 47 FTs, which I believe is the second most in the playoffs this year and what has to be the largest FT differential. The Heat almost took as many FTs as they did FGs. Of course there are going to be a few iffy calls here and there, but this game was chock full of one-sided calls.
Apart from the Ben-Shaq matchup, which had a number of typical Shaq bullshit calls (Shaq not called for that ever-present off-arm, Ben getting called for doing decent D), that wasn't really the case. This wasn't Game 3, where our runs were responded to with repeated Miami blowjobs by the refs.

We lost because we'd play fine D on Wade and he'd make some really tough shots.

We lost because we'd focus too much on one matchup and they'd get to the open man in Haslem.

We lost because we didn't do the work to win.

Indeed, I never said we deserved to win.

We're fucked. It's over, and not just this series and this season.

The Pistons that we loved to watch over the past 5 years are done. Enjoy watching this group playing together for the last time Wednesday (I think I'll find something better to do that night).

It's fucking over. Done. Bye-bye.

Sheed has made it more than clear he's not interested in being a Piston any longer. Fuck him. He was my favorite player, but now he's a useless piece of shit out there. I counted on one hand how many times he actually stepped foot in the paint in the first half, the rest of the time he just loitered around the three point stripe, and started walking back the other way when he realized he wouldn't get the shot. A 7 footer, walking up and down the court, playing between the circles. Sure, that's what we need. Meanwhile, Ben's trying to outrebound 4 Heat players. And being criticized when he doesn't do it.

He showed signs of life in the second half, and I was encouraged. Then I got pissed at myself for feeling encouraged when our starting PF decided to get motivated for the biggest game of the season. He should've been busting his ass out there from the get-go, but he waits until the second have to even begin jogging? Fuck that.

And Sheed sitting on the scorer's table during timeouts? What the fuck? There's some serious shit going on in the locker room, and we're only seeing the tip of the iceberg. I'm not one to hit the panic button, but you only have to look at the complete inability to look motivated to see that this Piston team is rotten from the inside-out.

This team is done. Maybe in 7 or 8 years we'll see them back on top, maybe not. I seriously hope I'm wrong, but only an idiot wouldn't be able to see it all unraveling.

hunt down and break the kneecaps of every official from tonight's fix/game?

Of course it's the Ref's fault!

The Pistons can't even sustain a modest effort for more than 2 consecutive qtrs. This is going on 9 games in a row now. The ref's excuse is mighty lame.

Hunt down Rasheed and break his knees please.

Typical conservative.

Can't see shades of grey.

The officials basically handed the game to Miami, but Detroit (i.e. Rasheed) didn't really want it, anyway.

Middle ground, people.

Good luck to Miami in the next round. If they get this kind of help from the officials, they'll nab their first championship, while Joe D. hopefully tries to turn the signing of Rasheed Wallace to a long term deal into something.

I wonder what we could get from the Knicks for Sheed. They'd love to add him.

so NOW will people FINALLY believe that being an all jumpshooting team with no post scoring presence and last in points in the paint is a BAD THING!? These guys are playing like they don't even know how to do basic inside-out basketball, its either jumper, or go iso into the paint. As I recall there were a few people here complaining about this during the regular season, and basically had the regular season record shoved in their face.

The problem isn't how many jumpshots we take (in fact, all 3 of the top jumpshooting teams are still playing), it's how bad our inside game really is. We have one player who can really do it and he'd rather sit 5-feet behind the 3 point line. That and he has only had 2 or 3 good games the whole playoffs.

its all related though.

Why is our inside game so bad?

Because we're a jump shooting team that hasn't played an inside game all year. Now that they're kind of trying to play inside they look LOST. Sheed is just part of that, his game is a "jump shooting game", like you said he'd rather go jack up 3s than play the post.

Why were we so blind, is my question?

We all know playoff basketball is different than regular season basketball.

We all know that the team with the best regular season record doesn't necessarily win anything in the playoffs.

We all know that regular season teams are finesse jumpshooting teams, while playoff teams have an inside presence - - - yet we all sat back and watched Flip throw Brown's inside/out playoff basketball gameplan out the window in favor of an outside ONLY, jumpshooting regular season pretender of a team.

This is NOT one players fault, like Sheed or Ben. And I don't think it could just be the coach either.

We've lost our way, we've lost our desire or other teams have simply caught up to us. It didn't feel very good when the Bull finally beat us in 91(?). It's starting to feel earily the same.

THe fact we have a player that we know we cant afford to give the ball to is really hurting us.

If any other team in the league started a guy who shot %10 from the line, they'd look awful too. It's too easy NOT to exploit it.

A %50 like shaq or duncan is one thing, but when you know you have almost no chance of getting any points at all, it weighs your offense down like an anchor.

I dont blame the losses or the defensive issues on Ben.

I do, however, blame the downfall of our offense on Ben Wallace. Teams are using their centers as free safetys to jump all of RIp's rurl and SHeed's post ups in the lane, and we're taking every shot in the paint over a double team.

Taymelo, I didn't see the problem of excessive perimeter shooting, because I thought, wrongly it turns out, that when we needed an easy bucket in the playoffs, a guy like Rasheed Wallace would be willing and able to deliver one. But it turns out he's not.

Kstat, you confuse me. Youv'e illuminated the problems about Ben Wallace's offense and the implications of no-defense rule changes on the Pistons, but I sense at the same time that you're as determined as anyone here to pay Ben Max money. Why? (If I've got it wrong, my apologies.) Under the new NBA no-defense rules, doesn't this just condemn us to sub-championship status?

Regarding someone's Suns analogy: Even though we shoot a ton of jumpshots, we're nothing like the Suns:The Suns players shoot wide open jumpshots (maybe b/c they have S.Nash, who breaks down the defense, creating space); our guys shoot contested jumpshots. Big difference.

I'm not from Detroit. I've always rooted for the Pistons because they've symbolized hard work, grit, and substance over style--values that define, or I'd like to think define, my Midwestern upbringing. Now I'm not so sure. People change. Maybe teams do too.

I said Ben should get whatever he wants, so long as we're stilla championship team.

so NOW will people FINALLY believe that being an all jumpshooting team with no post scoring presence and last in points in the paint is a BAD THING!? These guys are playing like they don't even know how to do basic inside-out basketball, its either jumper, or go iso into the paint. As I recall there were a few people here complaining about this during the regular season, and basically had the regular season record shoved in their face.

The problem isn't how many jumpshots we take (in fact, all 3 of the top jumpshooting teams are still playing), it's how bad our inside game really is. We have one player who can really do it and he'd rather sit 5-feet behind the 3 point line. That and he has only had 2 or 3 good games the whole playoffs.

its all related though.

Why is our inside game so bad?

Because we're a jump shooting team that hasn't played an inside game all year. Now that they're kind of trying to play inside they look LOST. Sheed is just part of that, his game is a "jump shooting game", like you said he'd rather go jack up 3s than play the post.

No, it's not. Phoenix and Dallas took as many jumpers as us and they're just fine in the middle. It's a personnel and coaching problem.

The Suns shoot wide open jumpers. We shoot contested jumpers. Analogy breaks down.

Can anybody tell me if this was the same prob the TWolves had in the playoffs under Flipper?

Can anybody tell me if this was the same prob the TWolves had in the playoffs under Flipper?It's hard to say. Those Timberwolves teams were playing against the 1 or 2 seed most years.

I vote for Bill Lambieer. All these jump shots are probably making him puke!
As a player, Laimbeer was far more about the jumper than taking it inside.
but he believes in hard work and loves pressure situations. Flips offense isnt his problem. its his the base of his philosophy thats not working. too soft, no resistence to taking the shots the defenses want you to take. And no priority on defense.

We're fucked. It's over, and not just this series and this season.

The Pistons that we loved to watch over the past 5 years are done. Enjoy watching this group playing together for the last time Wednesday (I think I'll find something better to do that night).
I dont agree with this. get in a real coach with only half as good an offensive scheme but twice as good a defensive scheme and i'd bet my life savings on them getting back to playing the right way. they need a right way coach, this freedom shit is no good. their shot selection can be iffy at times and they need a coach to purge some of their impulses when they get bogged down into doing shit like rip taking people off the dribble getting a turnover on the pass. they arent robots, that playing the right way coaching went a longer way than it was given credit for.

I think Joe Dumars has be better about picking a coach. find a diamond in the rough. Flip is a Darko pick. Meaning that he is a good coach, but not for this team.

The Suns shoot wide open jumpers. We shoot contested jumpers. Analogy breaks down.

There was no analogy, you might want to look that word up. Anyways, my point is that the problem is not jumpers (which seems to be what many here think) but the settling for bad jumpers.

One of my less-favorite moments was Chauncey taking an ill-advised 20' jumper after no ball movement with 15 seconds left on the shotclock, out of a timeout. I'm sure that was exactly the play Flip called and Chauncey just didn't make his shot, so Flip sucks at plays out of timeouts -- right? :)

I'm sure that was exactly the play Flip called and Chauncey just didn't make his shot, so Flip sucks at plays out of timeouts -- right? :)
yep he does. even if billups altered it. because you no command over your players if they dont even run your set play. so either way, no Flip can't coach well out of timeouts about 80 percent of the time.