Lots of speculation this morning that Kobe was making a statement by only taking 3 shots in the second half.

You have to admit, it sure looks like he did (tank).

What do you think he was trying to accomplish? Does it change the way that you feel about him as a player? How do you think his teammates feel about his performance in the 2nd half?

I'd like to see someone that thinks Kobe is "the next Jordan" justify his actions. MJ would have laid it all on the line, even in a blowout.

Well even as a Kobe hater, I think it kind of lets me down. I was disappointed. To see any player make the NBA and not even try in a game 7 is also a pussy move to me. Why give up? [smilie=uzi.gif]

Man the guy doesnt win MVP and goes out and shows why he didnt.....:rolleyes:

I don't know how Kobe could tank a game that, for practical purposes, was over at halftime. Everybody and their mother knew that game, and series, was history: The Suns were back, firing on all cylinders. Kobe's teammates didn't come to play in the first half when it was still contest, so I'm not gonna crap on Kobe, who's supercompetitive, for hanging it up when the outcome was already decided.

And I don't pretend that Kobe was trying to teach some zen lesson to his teammates either. I just think he didn't care much about a series that was over.

If he could have led his team back from down 15 in the second half of a game 7 on the road, it would have made him immortal.

He didn't even try. That says a lot, IMO. Can you think of another all time great that would have done this?

If he could have led his team back from down 15 in the second half of a game 7 on the road, it would have made him immortal.

He didn't even try. That says a lot, IMO. Can you think of another all time great that would have done this?

They may been down by 15, but judging from the first half--the crowd, the players, and the intertia of the game--it might as well have been a 150 point lead. They weren't coming back.

Scottie Pippen probably won't give him any flak.

They may been down by 15, but judging from the first half--the crowd, the players, and the intertia of the game--it might as well have been a 150 point lead. They weren't coming back.

We might have to agree to disagree on this one, r.

I just can't see any stone cold killa like MJ, Bird, Magic, etc. feeling that way.

MJ didn't give a fuck about the crowd or the inertia. Just ask Craig Ehlo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJsPzO4pDsQ&search=craig%20ehlo

From Daily Dime:


As you'd imagine, there was some interesting Kobe chatter in the desert in the wake of Game 7.

One story circulating among the Suns is that Bryant strongly encouraged teammates not to linger on the floor after the final buzzer for post-series handshakes. Suns ex Jim Jackson was one of the few Lakers who did stick around to congratulate his ex-teammates, as well as the L.A. coaches.

"I got the handshake I wanted," said Suns forward Tim Thomas, referring to Lakers coach Phil Jackson, whom Thomas called "a legend."

Also, if you have Insider, you can see another opinion on this here: http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=broussard_chris&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fesp n%2fblog%2findex%3fname%3dbroussard_chris

I know exactly what happened. What Kobe did is almost similar to what Ben Wallace did back a few weeks ago and for the same exact reason. Scratch that, it is the same.

I think Kobe himself knew the Laker's were not coming back and that played into whatever strategy he was using in the second half. Call it giving up, throwing in the towel whatever.

Like Ben, Kobe's disappointment in that moment lead him to make an ill-guided decision to be a baby and throw in the towel.

This is the same as Ben not wanting to go back into the game a few weeks back when the Pistons were losing and his game wasn't up to snuff.

Both players let their ego's, pride and disappointment become part of their thinking. If you're thinking on Kobe changed than it should on Ben too. No 4 time winner of the DPOY should ever allow that to happen as well as a legitimate NBA MVP candidate and one of the greats like Kobe.

To err is to be human. Sometimes people make mistakes...My thinking on both stays the same.

Kobe is a great player who is a great competitor but also a volatile personality but not cancerous. While talented like Jordan is a little less mature and not quite the leader. Kobe is in the second tier of all timers after the Bird, MJ and Magic.

i consider myself a kobe fan, as far as admiring his talent. after that, i didn't really care much about his character, since he wasn't on the Pistons. so, i can't really say it changed how i feel about him (if he did tank the game), because i didn't really put him on any pedestal or anything. sure, i would lose some respect for him, but as a person, i didn't really have much for him to begin with.

I know exactly what happened. What Kobe did is almost similar to what Ben Wallace did back a few weeks ago and for the same exact reason. Scratch that, it is the same.

I think Kobe himself knew the Laker's were not coming back and that played into whatever strategy he was using in the second half. Call it giving up, throwing in the towel whatever.

Like Ben, Kobe's disappointment in that moment lead him to make an ill-guided decision to be a baby and throw in the towel.

This is the same as Ben not wanting to go back into the game a few weeks back when the Pistons were losing and his game wasn't up to snuff.

Both players let their ego's, pride and disappointment become part of their thinking. If you're thinking on Kobe changed than it should on Ben too. No 4 time winner of the DPOY should ever allow that to happen as well as a legitimate NBA MVP candidate and one of the greats like Kobe.

To err is to be human. Sometimes people make mistakes...My thinking on both stays the same.

Wern't the Pistons tied/within a couple points when Ben refused to return?

That and its a game 7.....

It just seems so calculated to me, "You think I shoot too much? Take a look at what happens when I don't shoot at all".

I think Kobe was also trying to show management that he needs more help, so he left his teammates swinging in the breeze so that they would be exposed on the big stage as nothing but role players, shit role players at that.

I don't know how any of these guys would ever want to play with him again. Biggest game of their careers and he decided to make a statement that throws them all under the proverbial bus.

This might be part of the reason that his teammates have always disliked him.

Good for Jim Jackson, IMO.

I know exactly what happened. What Kobe did is almost similar to what Ben Wallace did back a few weeks ago and for the same exact reason. Scratch that, it is the same.

I think Kobe himself knew the Laker's were not coming back and that played into whatever strategy he was using in the second half. Call it giving up, throwing in the towel whatever.

Like Ben, Kobe's disappointment in that moment lead him to make an ill-guided decision to be a baby and throw in the towel.

This is the same as Ben not wanting to go back into the game a few weeks back when the Pistons were losing and his game wasn't up to snuff.

Both players let their ego's, pride and disappointment become part of their thinking. If you're thinking on Kobe changed than it should on Ben too. No 4 time winner of the DPOY should ever allow that to happen as well as a legitimate NBA MVP candidate and one of the greats like Kobe.

To err is to be human. Sometimes people make mistakes...My thinking on both stays the same.

Wern't the Pistons tied/within a couple points when Ben refused to return?

That and its a game 7.....

Lets not get lost in the minute details or variations of the situation. I understand there is a difference between a game 7 and the last week of the year but the major point of the post is to say that both players let disappointment and ego play into their decision. Both decisions while different have some of the same underlying causes. It hardly matters that one was down by a few points, by 30 or ahead.

Is that fair Herm?

I know exactly what happened. What Kobe did is almost similar to what Ben Wallace did back a few weeks ago and for the same exact reason. Scratch that, it is the same.

I think Kobe himself knew the Laker's were not coming back and that played into whatever strategy he was using in the second half. Call it giving up, throwing in the towel whatever.

Like Ben, Kobe's disappointment in that moment lead him to make an ill-guided decision to be a baby and throw in the towel.

This is the same as Ben not wanting to go back into the game a few weeks back when the Pistons were losing and his game wasn't up to snuff.

Both players let their ego's, pride and disappointment become part of their thinking. If you're thinking on Kobe changed than it should on Ben too. No 4 time winner of the DPOY should ever allow that to happen as well as a legitimate NBA MVP candidate and one of the greats like Kobe.

To err is to be human. Sometimes people make mistakes...My thinking on both stays the same.

Wern't the Pistons tied/within a couple points when Ben refused to return?

That and its a game 7.....

Lets not get lost in the minute details or variations of the situation. I understand there is a difference between a game 7 and the last week of the year but the major point of the post is to say that both players let disappointment and ego play into their decision. Both decisions while different have some of the same underlying causes. It hardly matters that one was down by a few points, by 30 or ahead.

Is that fair Herm?

No, in fact I see virtually no relation. One was a situation where a guy didn't care if his team won or not, and refused to be a part of an outcome. In the other case the outcome was decided and a player wanted to tack on an extra statement. I can't imagine anything bring more relative in a game of basketball than if an act effects the outcome. Seems to be the only thing that matters, not one to be ignored for the sake of simple anology.

If you want to just stop at "Its a time when a guy didn't give his all becasue of ego" thats fine, but then there would be a great number of examples and to single out Bens situation as if it better relates than the others seems silly.

I'd prefer Sheed shooting left handed at the end of the year. Seems more parallel.

I know exactly what happened. What Kobe did is almost similar to what Ben Wallace did back a few weeks ago and for the same exact reason. Scratch that, it is the same.

I think Kobe himself knew the Laker's were not coming back and that played into whatever strategy he was using in the second half. Call it giving up, throwing in the towel whatever.

Like Ben, Kobe's disappointment in that moment lead him to make an ill-guided decision to be a baby and throw in the towel.

This is the same as Ben not wanting to go back into the game a few weeks back when the Pistons were losing and his game wasn't up to snuff.

Both players let their ego's, pride and disappointment become part of their thinking. If you're thinking on Kobe changed than it should on Ben too. No 4 time winner of the DPOY should ever allow that to happen as well as a legitimate NBA MVP candidate and one of the greats like Kobe.

To err is to be human. Sometimes people make mistakes...My thinking on both stays the same.

Wern't the Pistons tied/within a couple points when Ben refused to return?

That and its a game 7.....

Lets not get lost in the minute details or variations of the situation. I understand there is a difference between a game 7 and the last week of the year but the major point of the post is to say that both players let disappointment and ego play into their decision. Both decisions while different have some of the same underlying causes. It hardly matters that one was down by a few points, by 30 or ahead.

Is that fair Herm?

No, in fact I see virtually no relation. One was a situation where a guy didn't care if his team won or not, and refused to be a part of an outcome. In the other case the outcome was decided and a player wanted to tack on an extra statement. I can't imagine anything bring more relative in a game of basketball than if an act effects the outcome. Seems to be the only thing that matters, not one to be ignored for the sake of simple anology.

If you want to just stop at "Its a time when a guy didn't give his all becasue of ego" thats fine, but then there would be a great number of examples and to single out Bens situation as if it better relates than the others seems silly.

I'd prefer Sheed shooting left handed at the end of the year. Seems more parallel.

I love being silly as you know. I stand by my premise and agree to disagree on this point. :)

They may been down by 15, but judging from the first half--the crowd, the players, and the intertia of the game--it might as well have been a 150 point lead. They weren't coming back.

We might have to agree to disagree on this one, r.

I just can't see any stone cold killa like MJ, Bird, Magic, etc. feeling that way.

MJ didn't give a fuck about the crowd or the inertia. Just ask Craig Ehlo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJsPzO4pDsQ&search=craig%20ehlo
The hell. You were supposed to be floored by my "inertia of the game" comment; this is most unexpected.

He's still my favorite non-Piston player in the league

I thought about it over time and I think he was just trying to involve everyone and then he'll feed off their success, much like games 1-6, but it didn't quite work out that way.

No way does a guy like Kobe quit. He has way too much pride and ego to do that. The Lakers just ran into a better team that night.

...unless there was a lot of money to be made.

Just saying.

He's still my favorite non-Piston player in the league

I thought about it over time and I think he was just trying to involve everyone and then he'll feed off their success, much like games 1-6, but it didn't quite work out that way.

No way does a guy like Kobe quit. He has way too much pride and ego to do that. The Lakers just ran into a better team that night.
that sounds like naive groupie love. but if it were my favorite player i might try to rationalize it. the best i can say is that kobe doesnt see it as tanking i think. but its not something you can put past him. he pulled this act before against sacramento. But if anything it just feeds his ego because he sees it as backing off to show he's more important than his teammates. And in his mind he was right. Its unfortunate on that end.

And before you turn red under your collar. I'm not calling you a female or gay groupie. I'm not even knocking it actually. You're entitled to it. But depending on a guy not to do something because he "supposedly" has more pride than that doesnt really sound all that likely. i dont know kobe personally, so i can only judge his actions and reactions. and his actions in that second half were very similar to the sacramento tank job. and not similar to the offensive movement he was helping make happen in the earlier games with penetration.

...unless there was a lot of money to be made.

Just saying.
well what was the odds on the game 7? if the lakers were favored then i might bite on that theory. otherwise probally not.

Thought he was a peice of shit before
-----No change

The 20 test messages left for Charles Barkley after he was critical of Kobe , that scares me a little.

I hope Kobe watched LeBron in the 4th quarter last night.

That's how you go down fighting.