I know we had this discussion at ye olde board, but seriously, $2.95/gal.?

Fuck this shit.

Hahahaha. You dumbass.

It's $3.15 here in Los Angeles.

L.A. wins again.

......

.
Ummm.. waitaminute... [smilie=anxious.gif]

http://www.jx3.net/jstone/judi/dubya%20with%20fingers%20on%20side%20of%20head.jpg
Bush: You'll have to excuse for one second 'dere. I mighta just had an orgasm inside my head from all the money i'm getting off you suckers! Sweet Ben Franklin where have you been all my life. Oh wait, Did i say that out loud? My bad.

CNN had a cool thing on last night. I wish I could have caught it from the beginning. They looked at gas prices and a potential energy crises in the year 2009 due to an over usage of oil and a possible oil shortage. It was really interesting. They had some potential situations involving terrorists & shit like that.


But for now, fuck our clown ass president. Fuck him and his fucking family. I hope they down in an oil pit. This is fuckin outrageous. My fucking Ford Taurus
takes close to $40 to fill up. Fuck this shit. I'm riding my bike to school.

I bought a dodge ram last year thinking that 2.50 would be as high as gas would get, I really never envisioned it getting into the 3's. They are certainly reducing the number of people that can afford a truck/suv. and I can not even define they

My dad baught an Envoy XL when prices looked like the might start to go down, a week later $50 bucks wouldnt get him half full. Shit is fucked up. The government needs to do something, otherwise we're going to look like fuckin China soon. A bunch of assholes riding bikes in the middle of the highway.

I've been saying it for awhile now. When, NOT IF, Gas hits 3.50 a gallon, you will see some really screwed up shit happening.

That is the critical mass price-point people, and when it hits, our economy,our social fabric,and structure will start to break down. The have-nots(The ones hanging on by a thread month to month) will have had enough, and will not be able to afford to go to work, or drive anywhere, or buy anything,

The economy will crash within months. Gas continues, and climbs up to 4$ A Gallon, and anarchy will set it.


It's exponential. 4$ gallon gas means 4$ milk, eggs, e.t.c...


We are in a SERIOUS mode right now,and unless gas taxes are repealed, from both state, and federal governments, shit will hit thefan.

Be prepared.

This is what happens when you have an administration that believes the rapture is right around the corner.

We bitch about the price of gas... but buy $3 cups of coffee and $2 bottles of water.

We scream about an energy crisis... but then purchase Caddy Escalades to tote around one kid and full-size trucks to haul nothing.

We holla about alternate sources of energy, but turn ou backs on them when we find them not to be as convenient as good ol' black gold.


We are all to blame for this mess.

We bitch about the price of gas... but buy $3 cups of coffee and $2 bottles of water..
if you had to buy 15 cups of coffee you'd bitch then. WTF??!! 3 dollars dont get you anywhere.

We bitch about the price of gas... but buy $3 cups of coffee and $2 bottles of water..
if you had to buy 15 cups of coffee you'd bitch then. WTF??!! 3 dollars dont get you anywhere.

You're missing the point. The very same people who stagger into a Starbucks and mindlessly plop down $3 for a cuppa joe are bitching and screaming about gas prices.

Think about it.

$3 for 16 ounces of coffee, or
$3 for 128 ounces of gasoline.

Look around the world. We have some of the best and CHEAPEST gasoline around. Our citizens also claim the largest ownership of mid to large sized vehicles. Everybody else got the point a long time ago.

We bitch about the price of gas... but buy $3 cups of coffee and $2 bottles of water..
if you had to buy 15 cups of coffee you'd bitch then. WTF??!! 3 dollars dont get you anywhere.

You're missing the point. The very same people who stagger into a Starbucks and mindlessly plop down $3 for a cuppa joe are bitching and screaming about gas prices.

Think about it.

$3 for 16 ounces of coffee, or
$3 for 128 ounces of gasoline.

Look around the world. We have some of the best and CHEAPEST gasoline around. Our citizens also claim the largest ownership of mid to large sized vehicles. Everybody else got the point a long time ago.

are you comparing coffee and gas in volume? thats like comparing a gallon of water to a gallon of XO henessey.

you mid size vehicle point only goes so far. even in a mid sized these prices are shit.

We bitch about the price of gas... but buy $3 cups of coffee and $2 bottles of water..
if you had to buy 15 cups of coffee you'd bitch then. WTF??!! 3 dollars dont get you anywhere.

You're missing the point. The very same people who stagger into a Starbucks and mindlessly plop down $3 for a cuppa joe are bitching and screaming about gas prices.

Think about it.

$3 for 16 ounces of coffee, or
$3 for 128 ounces of gasoline.

Look around the world. We have some of the best and CHEAPEST gasoline around. Our citizens also claim the largest ownership of mid to large sized vehicles. Everybody else got the point a long time ago.

are you comparing coffee and gas in volume? thats like comparing a gallon of water to a gallon of XO henessey.

you mid size vehicle point only goes so far. even in a mid sized these prices are shit.

I'm comparing VOLUME, I'm comparing VALUE.

Are you telling me that $3 for a 16 ounce cup of starbucks coffee is an equal value to $3 for 128 ounces of refined gasoline?

Also, go on to Google and look up "city streets". Take a look at the streets of major cities around the world. They mostly drive compact cars! They figured out a long time ago that you buy only what you need, and you DON'T need a Cadillac Escalade to haul a 60 pound kid to soccer practice.

Also, go on to Google and look up "city streets". Take a look at the streets of major cities around the world. They mostly drive compact cars! They figured out a long time ago that you buy only what you need, and you DON'T need a Cadillac Escalade to haul a 60 pound kid to soccer practice.

That's a gross generalization that's largely inaccurate and disregards a great many factors.

Also, go on to Google and look up "city streets". Take a look at the streets of major cities around the world. They mostly drive compact cars! They figured out a long time ago that you buy only what you need, and you DON'T need a Cadillac Escalade to haul a 60 pound kid to soccer practice.

That's a gross generalization that's largely inaccurate and disregards a great many factors.

Like....?

Pimpin aint easy in a Geo.

Also, go on to Google and look up "city streets". Take a look at the streets of major cities around the world. They mostly drive compact cars! They figured out a long time ago that you buy only what you need, and you DON'T need a Cadillac Escalade to haul a 60 pound kid to soccer practice.

That's a gross generalization that's largely inaccurate and disregards a great many factors.

Like....?

Like the fact that many "major cities" in the "old world" were created long before the industrial age and have streets too small for large vehicles. Like the fact that compact cars are far cheaper and where people have the money (and its not a terrible inconvenience to do so) they generally do buy larger more expensive cars. Like the fact that many cities around the world with an older heritage have longer histories of public transportation. Like the fact that most nations around the world didn't have such an overabundance of usable land that they were not only giving it away but luring people from around the world to come and take it thus the places the citizens of those countries need to travel to on a daily basis are either international and linked via mass transit systems or much closer then the rather sprawled out conglomeration that is the American landscape. Like the fact that the automobile was molded into the American social culture in a way that is unique in the world and so the automobile in the average American's world is much more then "the box that takes them to their next stop" like it is in many places throughout the world.

Are you telling me that $3 for a 16 ounce cup of starbucks coffee is an equal value to $3 for 128 ounces of refined gasoline?
no i'm telling you they arent in a legitimate ballpark of relevence to be compared. the markets are so different between the two that its a really bad comparisom in my mind. While i agree that buying an SUV isnt a well thought of move for a middle class american with gas as it is if he doesnt also have a midsize/compact mileage efficient vehicle on the side. To relate the scenario to other products like coffee as to say we should accept it because we accept 3 dollar coffee is silly to me. you can't make gasoline at home and its set in a whole different sense of volume vs value market.

Its a shame that the president is buddies with the saudi prince. Saudis blow up the world trade, raise oil prices, and probally sample our finest hookers when they visit the president at camp david. [smilie=arrgh.jpg] Right after the american oil companies leave the white house with money bulges in their suitcases. God Bless america and give some proper karma to its commander in chief.

Denny:

There are good arguments on both sides, but the comparing prices argument is one of the weakest arguments in the world.

If I were you and I were trying to win a debate about gasoline, I'd leave that argument at home.

It sucks.

That is all.

PS: I could probably sell a gallon of enriched uranium on the black market for more than Bill Davidson is worth, so I guess gas is really a bargain!

PSS: Does anyone here know how much a gallon of eye drops costs? I just spent $60 on approximately a tablespoon of eye drops - perhaps more like a teaspoon. Extrapolate that out to a gallon. WOW!!! Therefore, clearly gas is cheap!

See, what a great argument.

In some parts of CALI is as high as 3.77
...
In my hood, we got a real good BP, thats been floatin around 2.79-2.81 on 7mile and Gratiot

Bush Eases Environmental Rules on Gasoline
AP - 1 hour, 11 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - WASHINGTON - President Bush on Tuesday ordered a temporary suspension of environmental rules for gasoline, making it easier for refiners to meet demand and possibly dampen prices at the pump. He also halted for the summer the purchase of crude oil for the government's emergency reserve. Bush also announced steps to ease environmental standards governing fuel grades.

http://news.yahoo.com/fc/us/energy_policy

great gas wont be all that much cheaper and the environments gets another conservative kick in the ass.

Click on the link below to sign a petition to lower gas prices. This is on
the State of Michigan website but the url is weird and I got it in an
e-mail a minute ago so I'm not sure if it is legitimate. Good luck.

http://www6.dleg.state.mi.us/parsers/govparser.asp


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Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking
of any action by persons or entities other than y'all motherfuckers
is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete
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http://news.yahoo.com/fc/us/energy_policy

great gas wont be all that much cheaper and the environments gets another conservative kick in the ass.
That is a sad-ass step...but its becoming more neccesary.

You guys really have to do your homework on this. I posted this on the old forum when this came up. I'll make it short

First off Gas at these prices is still cheap on a historical level. I posted a graph last time that showed if gas would of kept pace with inflation over the past 25 years it should be around $5 a gallon. We have been living on cheap gas.

Second- gas is a commodity that is subject to supply/demand. Oil is not an infinite commodity that will always come out of the ground. Some say we have already used Half the earths supply and there is enough left for 40 more years. I have no idea if this is true but I do know that there must be only a finite amount in the world.

Third - because of point #2 it costs a hell of a lot to get oil out of the ground. They now need to drill miles into the ocean floor to get at it.

Fourth - when a country like Iran is threatening the world along with Venezuela and Nigeria it's gonna create instability.

Fifth - let me make this clear. Stop freaking complaining about the gas prices and make some money off of it. I have made good money off of oil the past 2 years and am continuing to. Gas could go to $6 a gallon for all I care. I have made enough to fill my car up for a lifetime. Disclaimer: (I need to post this cause of my profession) This is not a solicitation to buy or sell said securities. Please do your own homework, investing in volatile markets posses risk. Past performance is no guarantee of future returns.

lastly - quit buying into the political debate. No one can do anything about this not the dems or repubs but it makes for great conversation to say Bush is an oil man.

If you want to write your congressman, write and ask for more e-85 pumps. Congress could give tax incentives to gas stations to stock e-85. Currently there are only 2 in the area, one being in Southfield. Writing your congressman asking them to cap prices is un-American and un-capitalist, it's a form of socialism.

I say Make money like the oil execs are and quit the complaining!

Gecko makes some great points.

Also, Tay and Gutz. You keep missing my fucking point. NOBODY complains about a $3.00 cup of coffee. Cable costs keep going up, and people keep buying cable. Candy bars are now a buck, and people keep buying candy bars. It's all about priorities and fiscal responsibility. True, a gallon of gas won't get you very far -- if you're rolling in a Suburban. In a Prius or a Civic, it gets you plenty far.

As for public transportation, what about Chicago, NY, San Francisco, etc. These cities have pretty decent forms of public transportation. As for L.A... true, the MTA sucks Giffman's goat balls, but if you're commuting to work 20 miles round trip a day, plus micellaneous miles for recreation of, say, 15 miles a day, that's 35 miles. With an economy car, it'll cost you around $3.00 a day to drive. If you don't stop at Starbucks everyday for your $3.00 coffee fix, you've broken even!

Yes, European cities have narrower streets and are more compact, but they've also suffered $4 to $5 a gallon gas prices for some time now, and have grown accustomed to being financially frugal in regards to their transportation needs.

So I agree with Fool on his points... but there's a lot more to the story on both sides.

Gecko makes some great points.

Also, Tay and Gutz. You keep missing my fucking point. NOBODY complains about a $3.00 cup of coffee. Cable costs keep going up, and people keep buying cable. Candy bars are now a buck, and people keep buying candy bars. It's all about priorities and fiscal responsibility. True, a gallon of gas won't get you very far -- if you're rolling in a Suburban. In a Prius or a Civic, it gets you plenty far.

As for public transportation, what about Chicago, NY, San Francisco, etc. These cities have pretty decent forms of public transportation. As for L.A... true, the MTA sucks Giffman's goat balls, but if you're commuting to work 20 miles round trip a day, plus miscellaneous miles for recreation of, say, 15 miles a day, that's 35 miles. With an economy car, it'll cost you around $3.00 a day to drive. If you don't stop at Starbucks everyday for your $3.00 coffee fix, you've broken even!

Yes, European cities have narrower streets and are more compact, but they've also suffered $4 to $5 a gallon gas prices for some time now, and have grown accustomed to being financially frugal in regards to their transportation needs.

So I agree with Fool on his points... but there's a lot more to the story on both sides.


Very true. There is a very very good side to these high gas prices that most just don't see. The one's that complain about gas prices sometimes are also the one's that complain about the environmental hazards of oil and also complain that we need to get off oil. Well the only way that markets change to alternative fuels is if oil becomes cost prohibitive to them and if consumers demand alternative sources by altering there buying.

While in the short term people fixate on the retirement packages of the Oil tycoons and prices at the pump this in the long term is not good for them as it will cause other markets to open up.

Another point - despite the high gas prices the economy is ripping it up right now why? Even though you guys like to complain the data shows that your incomes the past few years have outpaced the rise in gas prices so you still have discretionary income! These high gas prices has not in any way impacted our economy in the slightest way yet.

Here's something else to consider. When gas prices go up they in turn hurt the Auto industry especially GM and Ford. Why them? They derive a good percentage of profits off SUV sales. If gas prices remain high and people conscientiously stop buying SUV's GM and Ford will have to ramp up and push alternative fuel vehicles thus you win and the world wins.

If gas prices though remain low to appease the crowd in here then what impetus does GM and Ford have to change, or the world for that matter? If I am an angel investor, hedge fund or Venture Capitalist why would I ever place money in an alternative fuel investment when the world is addicted to cheap gas?

Did you know that Brazil is entirely gas free with their cars? Did you know that Brail has found a way to heat homes or provide energy from sugar cane? How about do you know what's going on in the midwest with corn right now? They call Iowa, Indiana and South Dakota the Middle East of the US. All the farmers are betting that high gas prices are going to force YOU to demand ethanol so they have converted harvests to corn production. Another factor is that the Gov't has switched away from MDTE additive and called for more ethanol in gas.

Like I said most of you are fallen pray to the political rhetoric and having your emotions swayed by a press that loves to harp on this oil thing when in the long run you should want higher oil and gas prices so investment opens up elsewhere. Any questions on that Tay or you want to keep misleading others on this issue? You may be great on arguing but your Keynesian economics needs a little help :)

LOL...damage control in effect. yea its so not political. political affiliation has nothing to do with Denny and gecko jumping together on this. Or nothing to do with each other complimenting each others points. :)

I see the posts are getting longer. Looking for some heavy spins on the "fact" that this isnt great.


The one's that complain about gas prices sometimes are also the one's that complain about the environmental hazards of oil and also complain that we need to get off oil.
You say dont make it political. that looks like a pretty political assessment about anyone who isnt seeing your economic rainbow.


either way i'm done with it. i'm sure taymelo will have fun arguing with you on some political shit, while you pretend it isnt about that. But i'm cool. Gas Prices and the administrations ability to address it has been unsatisfactory. And i ponder whose economy you see booming in this? definately not the general one.


One more thing.

Any questions on that Tay or you want to keep misleading others on this issue?
thats the lamest garbage shit you've ever said on here gecko. I see that you know consider yourself the conservative path to enlightenment on this(but its not a political thing i'm sure~lol~). Whatever antics you're trying. Dont single me, tay, or anyone else out as "misleading" anyone. last i checked there were no ring leaders swaying any damn boby. you're misleading yourself if you are thinking theres such a scenario.

Gutz, I never said the Bush Administration is clean on this. What I'm saying is the general public is allowing it via apathy.

Here's how it works.

Gas in February is, say, $2.15 for regular unleaded. In March it shoots up to $2.50, and by late April it hits $3.30. Then in May, the oil companies say everything is fine... and drop the prices to $2.40 a gallon. And everybody is cool with it, aside from the fact that the price is still 35 cents higher than it originally was. They've been doing this, and getting away with it, for years. And until there's a major shift in the mindset of the average American, they'll do it for years to come.

What I find so interesting is that we are, by far, the largest consumer of fossil fuel in the world, and very easily can dictate crude oil prices. We've made the OPEC countries filthy rich, and therefore (theoretically) have pull. But we don't, and never really have -- independant of Administration.

Not going to rebuke everything, most of which is true, but a couple things to ponder.

Comparing this to 35 years ago is kinda tough...that was "the gas crisis"...It crippled the economy, so to say things are better is like saying Iraq>WWI. Great, no mustard gas casualties, but stuff is still abnormally shitty.

Gas prices have more than doubled in the past 4 years, my pay has not doubled.

Brazil seems to contradict your free market sentiments as I beleive that was a socially funded program. We however have depended on the shift in markets which seems to be ariving behind the curve. Good news is 5 years ago there were 5 companies doing venture capital in energy, now its approaching 100. The market works most efficiently, but our society isn't the sacrificing type. Its too bad Bush can't make a statement asking people to conserve, but maybe he's afraid of being associated with Carter who got lambasted to doing the same.

i'm definitely not the hippie type, but a byproduct from all this seems to be the heightened environmental awareness. i'm all for car manufacturers reducing emissions, pollution, and whatnot. all the governmental "pressure" like CAFE and crap like that hasn't seemed to really do much. but when consumers are pissed about gas prices and want more eco-friendly cars, the manufacturers listen, and i think we win in the long run.

personally, i just accelerate a little slower and drive more conservatively. it's ridiculous to me when i hear people bitch and moan about gas prices and then stomp on the gas at every stop light....

LOL...damage control in effect. yea its so not political. political affiliation has nothing to do with Denny and gecko jumping together on this. Or nothing to do with each other complimenting each others points. :)

I see the posts are getting longer. Looking for some heavy spins on the "fact" that this isn't great.

You say don't make it political. that looks like a pretty political assessment about anyone who isn't seeing your economic rainbow.

either way I'm done with it. I'm sure taymelo will have fun arguing with you on some political shit, while you pretend it isnt about that. But i'm cool. Gas Prices and the administrations ability to address it has been unsatisfactory. And i ponder whose economy you see booming in this? definately not the general one.


One more thing.

thats the lamest garbage shit you've ever said on here gecko. I see that you know consider yourself the conservative path to enlightenment on this(but its not a political thing i'm sure~lol~). Whatever antics you're trying. Dont single me, tay, or anyone else out as "misleading" anyone. last i checked there were no ring leaders swaying any damn boby. you're misleading yourself if you are thinking theres such a scenario.

I erased most of what I said earlier. I don't want to attack anyone here, I must of been a lil crabby from being sick. Let me just say one more time - Go make money on this situation and I guarantee you will forget all about who's in office or what gas prices are. Heck $500 18 months ago would of turned into 2.5 times that amount today. That would fill up most SUV gas tanks for at least 30 weeks! Go get em Gutz!

i'm definitely not the hippie type, but a byproduct from all this seems to be the heightened environmental awareness. i'm all for car manufacturers reducing emissions, pollution, and whatnot. all the governmental "pressure" like CAFE and crap like that hasn't seemed to really do much. but when consumers are pissed about gas prices and want more eco-friendly cars, the manufacturers listen, and i think we win in the long run.

At least someone paid attention in eigth grade. I think you understand how it works.

I know all the rationalizations, analogies and the hypotheticals, but I'm still pissed. $2.97/gal is utter bullshit.

I think it was Hermy that said it best. The price of fuel has nearly tripled over the past 4 years, has anyone's salary tripled in that time?

Maybe I'll take Gecko's advice and invest in this shit. Wait, I filled up this morning, nevermind.

The price of fuel has nearly tripled over the past 4 years, has anyone's salary tripled in that time?

http://sylvia2233.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/prince102.jpg

Fine.

You owe me one tank of gasoline, Mr. Prince.

I'll take that in mid-grade, thank you.

We bitch about the price of gas... but buy $3 cups of coffee and $2 bottles of water.

We scream about an energy crisis... but then purchase Caddy Escalades to tote around one kid and full-size trucks to haul nothing.

We holla about alternate sources of energy, but turn ou backs on them when we find them not to be as convenient as good ol' black gold.


We are all to blame for this mess.

well said. Rors makes a good point following it, but still, well said.

Got gas this morning at $3.249/gallon.

I just went to the mall in Grandville and five hours later it has jumped a full .25 to $3.499.

I also saw a guy walking down the street wearing a teal Grant Hill jersey. He also had a god awful farmer's tan.

Got gas this morning at $3.249/gallon.

I just went to the mall in Grandville and five hours later it has jumped a full .25 to $3.499.

I also saw a guy walking down the street wearing a teal Grant Hill jersey. He also had a god awful farmer's tan.

I'm not sure what's uglier - $3.499 a gallon or the teal Hill jersey.

ha ha, very true

Maybe we should have a poll to predict the date when it's going to hit $4/gal?

I'll let b-diddy do that one.

Who predicted that domestic gas prices would go from $1.35 to $3.35/gallon in 5 years?

Who predicted that domestic gas prices would go from $1.35 to $3.35/gallon in 5 years?

Um, Ernie Banks?

$3.59 this morning with rumors that it could be as much as .15 cents higher by the end of the day.

My guess is Al Gore.

even more rumors have it that gas hit $5 in some areas in the country.

also, at work we were looking at graphs showing the wholesale price of gas and they skyrocketed today.

this is advice that i think you should follow for the foreseeable future: go out and fill up your tank as fast as you can before the prices go up.

Sell yer house and invest in Exxon. Live in a fucking dumpster for a couple years. Then you'll be rich.
THEN, you might be able to afford a car and gas.

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Last summer when oil traded at a record high near $79 a barrel, gas at the pump went for about $3.03 a gallon. Today, crude's about $65 a barrel and a gallon of regular unleaded costs $3.10
Doesn't seem right, does it? The price of a barrel of crude ought to be a better benchmark for what you pay at the gas pump.
In today's economy, though, that type of formula is out the window, a relic from the days when refineries kept crude stocks high during winter months and Americans didn't drive longer and longer distances to get to home, work and play.
Nowadays, pump prices are determined far more by supply and demand for gasoline than by how much traders buy and sell crude for on the open market.
The bad boys of oil (http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2007/news/0705/gallery.oil_bad_boys/index.html)
"Forget everything you ever learned or ever read about the connection of crude oil prices to gasoline, because there is a disconnect today," said petroleum industry consultant Tim Hamilton. "All the price of oil does is establish a floor of what the price is going to be in the country."
Hamilton, who works with Oilwatch.org, a consumer group based in Santa Monica, Calif., advised that instead we should pay attention to the supply of gasoline for delivery to the marketplace, as well as the consumer habits that determine price.
"What's going to tell you the maximum price is going to be the supply of refined product," he said. "Supply of the finished product is short and the price is going up accordingly, and it's all profit for the refineries."
Over the last three months, gasoline stockpiles got drained more quickly than at any time in the history of record-keeping by the Energy Information Administration, the government's top energy forecaster. Couple that with continued high demand, which the EIA said rose about 1.0 percent from last year over that period, and that weighs heavily on the price of gas.
Other factors are at work. Geopolitical tensions, like the war in Iraq, political unrest in Nigeria and last year's nuclear tension in North Korea, also factor in. And this year's cold April caused a spike in demand, particularly in the Northeast, while seasonal changeover at refineries to meet reformulation requirements play a role as well.
The industry also has been hampered somewhat by a spate of outages at refineries, which are running at just 89.5 percent of capacity, rather than the 90-plus typical for this time of year. Finally, the main grade of U.S. crude, West Texas Intermediate, is trading below most other grades of oil worldwide, meaning U.S. refiners are effectively paying more on average for crude oil.
Behind high gas prices: The refinery crunch (http://money.cnn.com/2007/04/17/news/economy/refineries/index.htm)
In fact, some analysts see nothing particularly unusual about this year's spike in gasoline prices, at least in terms of recent trends, and expect prices to ease somewhat.
"Indeed, if you check a chart of past oil prices you'll see that last year the peak was around this time and prices fell later in the year," said Peter Grossman, an analyst at Butler University. "We should expect to see prices fall toward the end of summer. The futures market certainly expects it. Gasoline futures prices are falling even as pump prices rise."
Don't expect a steep fall, though. The EIA, whose previous per-gallon estimates have been shattered by continuously increasing prices, said in its latest report Wednesday afternoon that demand should keep prices around $3 through the summer.
In any event, if gas prices tumbled suddenly, that could spark a rush of buying that would force prices back up again - or at least put a floor under them.
Besides, judging by current demand levels, the driving public doesn't seem bothered enough to cut back much or even park their vehicles altogether. And it's that demand, after all, that goes a long way in determining which way prices will go.
"Once we got through a threshold high like last year and broke that $3-a-gallon barrier, the public gets accustomed to it and they go back to buying as normal," Hamilton said. "If it goes to $3.50 will they slow down? We don't know." http://i.cnn.net/money/images/bug.gif (http://money.cnn.com/2007/05/16/news/economy/oil_bythebarrel/index.htm?cnn=yes#TOP)

I don't know, I don't think you have to be a hippie to be an environmentalist anymore. Just concerned with efficiency and your own bottom line.

The main reason gas prices are so high is that we have to drive to work. Until lots of people are willing to tell their bosses "I'm not coming in today, the price of gas is too high," nothing will ever happen.

Until we don't have shit hole towns and overpriced towns that force us to live in places far from our work it will be that way. The problem is that you don't have enough mixed use in terms of housing. You have cities full of the same use. If you want to live in near a down town with moderate to above moderate priced houses, you live in royal oak, berkley, etc. If you want cheaper but still somewhat close you live in Ferndale, Hazel Park, etc. If you want dirt cheap, Pontiac. Expensive, Birimingham or Bloomfield. Yet the jobs are in large pockets that aren't always near their home. Big Beaver, Auburn Hills, the auto factories concentrated along Van Dyke or Michigan Ave. And no mass transit to get there. I could see it working if you had a light rail going out those "spokes" of the whole "wheel design" but it isn't that way. They screwed up and forced us all to commute by car.

I'd say Royal Oak/Ferndale/Berkley/Huntington Woods/Pleasant Ridge are centrally located and you are really close to anything in town. I was thinking about buying a new home in the next 18 months (new as brand new) and some of the new homes they are building in these areas are grossly overpriced. For example, I saw a 2000 sq ft house going for $370k in Royal Oak. When did Royal Oak turn into New York City? Its downtown consists of 2 streets with 12 restaurants and 10 bars. Buying a house in Ferndale, and you have to deal with outrageous property taxes. I might have to alter my strategy and buy a used house. There seems to be no housing slump in these areas.

Don't buy downtown. I just sold my house in Royal Oak. It is 1400 sq feet and I got 190k for it. 2000 sq ft on the same street would go for about 250k probably in this market. I lived at 13.5 and Rochester Rd. The farther you are from 11 mile the better price you get. I was still only 2 miles from downtown, which is easily biking distance.

The nice thing is that I was 15-20 minutes from all major sporting events (either the palace or detroit). 15 minutes to Great Lakes crossing and 10 minutes to Somerset. 1 hour from Ann Arbor or Lansing.

*all drive times are assuming no rush hour backups. (it took me 30 minutes to get to work in Pontiac in rush hour traffic).

You can get a DAMN fine 2000 sq ft house in Omaha in a great neighborhood for about 140K.
Good jobs, lots of 'em, no commute, fresh air, the winters aren't harsh, lots of sun, and you'd be my neighbor.

Don't buy downtown. I just sold my house in Royal Oak. It is 1400 sq feet and I got 190k for it. 2000 sq ft on the same street would go for about 250k probably in this market. I lived at 13.5 and Rochester Rd. The farther you are from 11 mile the better price you get. I was still only 2 miles from downtown, which is easily biking distance.

The nice thing is that I was 15-20 minutes from all major sporting events (either the palace or detroit). 15 minutes to Great Lakes crossing and 10 minutes to Somerset. 1 hour from Ann Arbor or Lansing.

*all drive times are assuming no rush hour backups. (it took me 30 minutes to get to work in Pontiac in rush hour traffic).

I was just around 15/rochester the other day. The place I looked at was 11 mile rd between campbell and main. I'm not sure what to do right now. I'm just waiting to see what office my job puts me in. If they put me in the Waterford office, I might just live out in Clarkston. Seems like I can get a much better bang for my buck up there. If I get moved to downtown Detroit, then I will look to find something over there. Huntington Woods isn't too bad. They had some decent homes for 250k and they have nice neighborhoods. Some of the neighborhoods in Royal seem to have houses that are literally 10 feet apart.

$3.69 here in Grand Rapids

I saw this morning on the local news that Michigan has the highest gas prices in the country right now (yes, even higher than LA, Denny).

There are some places across this great land where it is less than $3.

$3.69 here in Grand Rapids

I saw this morning on the local news that Michigan has the highest gas prices in the country right now (yes, even higher than LA, Denny).

There are some places across this great land where it is less than $3.

Ehhh. I mostly roll hard on my Suzuki these days. 35-40 mpg @ 75 mph down Sunset Blvd, yeeeeehaaaa!!!!

Is that her? Its hilarious either way but much better if its actually her.

I was just around 15/rochester the other day. The place I looked at was 11 mile rd between campbell and main. I'm not sure what to do right now. I'm just waiting to see what office my job puts me in. If they put me in the Waterford office, I might just live out in Clarkston. Seems like I can get a much better bang for my buck up there. If I get moved to downtown Detroit, then I will look to find something over there. Huntington Woods isn't too bad. They had some decent homes for 250k and they have nice neighborhoods. Some of the neighborhoods in Royal seem to have houses that are literally 10 feet apart.
11 and Cambell is pretty close to downtown, hence the high price.

Clarkston has very expensive taxes. A small to average house there has 7k in taxes a year. I paid 4.5k in R.O and that was high compared to other places. If you buy in that area stick to independance township. you can still be walking distance to clarkston and not pay the huge taxes. Clarkston has to charge a ton because they have a small tax base but support their own city services (police, etc). The Indep. Twp assesor was in my office Friday and explained that to me :)

$7,000.00 per year in taxes? That's what, about $650.00 per month on top of the mortgage payment.
That is ridiculous. How do you afford a house in Michigan? It would seem that a $200,000 home, with taxes and insurance would be a $2500.00 per month check to sit down and write. That's a high overhead, even before you get to utilities, cars, and other payments. YIKES!

Yeah, Clarkston rapes you. The 4500 in taxes that I paid in Royal Oak is a ton as well. My house was assessed at $207,000. I'm moving to Colorado soon and their taxes are 1/4 of that.

The check is not that big though. We paid our taxes in an escrow account and with our mortgage and taxes it was about 1600 to 1700 a month.

The Indep. Twp assesor was in my office Friday and explained that to me :)

Those guys are assholes
I am one, let me know if you have any questions

Chris:
My math was a little off. The simple formula for mtg pmnt and taxes and inusrance is about $10.00 for every one thousand borrowed. I was way high. But still, unless you have a chunk to put down, a typical payment on 200 k should be about 2 grand. Still large.
I will take my deal, thanks you. It may be Omaha, but it do be cheap to live here.

Do some of the townships have the county sheriff as police? For example, independence?

If they put me in the Waterford office, I might just live out in Clarkston. Seems like I can get a much better bang for my buck up there.
Why not Waterford, where you work? I'm fairly sure the taxes in Waterford aren't jacked up all to hell like Clarkston or Royal Joke. There's lots of lakefront property at reasonable prices there last I recall, if you can deal with not being along an expressway other than M-59.

Waterford is dirt cheap. You can get a lot more house there, but you also won't be desirable for re-sell. If you are looking to stay in that house for 10 years then it's a good idea. if you think you'll sell it in the next 5 years that's another story.

If you think you'll sell in the next 5 years, I wouldn't buy anywhere in southeast Michigan except on a lake (why I mentioned "lakefront" above) or nearby some other scarce resource.

If you think you'll sell in the next 5 years, I wouldn't buy anywhere in southeast Michigan except on a lake (why I mentioned "lakefront" above) or nearby some other scarce resource.


Would "a neighbor" count?

"Or nearby some other scarce resource"
How about right next to a GM factory?

You're a lot better off renting in Waterford. Jesus, what a shithole. My cousin out there calls it "Redford Of The Lakes."

It depends on the part of Waterford. Some of the subdivisions tied to lakes are really nice. A friend of mine's parents lived in a megabucks home on Cass Lake, along the stretch where Bob Seger lives, until they retired. Another friend was in a nice sub along Lake Oakland where L. Brooks Patterson lived. Likewise, I've seen shitholes in Waterford as well. A realtor took me to this cookie cutter sub in Waterford. Going through, I noticed that every fucking house was for sale. They were all shit-built and falling apart after ~10 years.

I hope you changed realtors after that outing.

Actually, the realtor is a family friend. The first couple times I went to see houses with her, I was mostly looking just to look, to form a better idea of what I wanted and didn't want. It was my first real house buying experience (though I rented a house with my gf until that ended, so I had a basic idea of upkeep). I listed broad parameters of what I thought I wanted, she took me to see some houses, we refined the requirements, and I found a place that I've been happy with. I think it was a house that I wanted to see, not one she picked out for me.

It depends on the part of Waterford. Some of the subdivisions tied to lakes are really nice. A friend of mine's parents lived in a megabucks home on Cass Lake, along the stretch where Bob Seger lives, until they retired. Another friend was in a nice sub along Lake Oakland where L. Brooks Patterson lived. Likewise, I've seen shitholes in Waterford as well. A realtor took me to this cookie cutter sub in Waterford. Going through, I noticed that every fucking house was for sale. They were all shit-built and falling apart after ~10 years.

That's actually Orchard Lake Village though, or the city of Sylvan Lake. Some parts are ok, but for the most part it is a shit hole.

Waterford is hit or miss. If you drive down m-59, the street is littered with pawn shops and shady looking characters. I'm leaning more and more to royal joke/Huntington Woods/Pleasant Ridge because of its central location.

If you want a "central" location, you've gotta give Kansas a look. Right smack dab in the middle of the country.

That's actually Orchard Lake Village though, or the city of Sylvan Lake. Some parts are ok, but for the most part it is a shit hole.
No it's not. It's definitely Waterford, along with Dodge Park beach (where in my youth, I spent much time pretending I could snag rich hotties). Here's a map:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cass_Lake_(Michigan)

Cass Lake doesn't hit Sylvan Lake, but there's a "Sylvan Lake Condos" that's actually in Keego Harbor with Cass Lake visible across the street that could confuse matters.

I know that stretch well, especially where the Keego cops jurisdiction stops.

What's wrong with pawn shops?

Pawn shops are the new 7/11's

Chris, if you don't mind me asking, how much should one expect to pay in taxes for a $250k property in Royal Oak?

I'm not sure. If you had a specific house in mind I can run an analyzer program on it to generate the estimated taxes.

All I know is mine were about 4800 on a 215k property. you'd probably be in the 5k-5.2k range I am guessing.

Drop me a PM with a specific address and I can probably get you some good numbers.

I know we had this discussion at ye olde board, but seriously, $2.95/gal.?

Fuck this shit.

Post #1 in this thread, lol

$3.23 this morning where I am, lowest it's been in a looong time.

Whats funny is when we see that $2.96 Glenn bitched about it will be the number one story on the news and cause huge celebrations.

What's even funnier is the fact that oil companies have no rhyme or reason for their prices. They make shit up and change the prices to whatever the hell they feel like.

I love that .9 of a penny on the end, too.

Fucking scumbags.

What's even funnier is the fact that oil companies have no rhyme or reason for their prices. They make shit up and change the prices to whatever the hell they feel like.
http://wtfdetroit.com/forums/showthread.php?p=274074&highlight=price#post274074

T. Boone Pickens said on the Frank Beckman show that gas will go as low as $50 per barrell by Christmas. What would that equivalate to for price per gallon?

$2.70ish?

http://wtfdetroit.com/forums/showthread.php?p=274074&highlight=price#post274074

Oh I understand that they pretend to come up with valid reasons to move gas prices up and down, but there really is no reason. All the gas companies are in cahoots as it is.

The gas prices are cyclical, and follow weather. I predicted this range of gas prices 3 weeks ago. Unless you count my ability to read charts and graphs and listen on the news for major weather events as some kind of mysterious mental power, I'm not psychic. A decent starting point is at:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/wrgp/mogas_history.html
http://www.eia.doe.gov/bookshelf/brochures/gasolinepricesprimer/index.html

I think you're reading too much into my comments. I realize they're cyclical. I realize they're always higher in the summer. I realize all of that.

I'm just saying that gas companies are making hundreds of billions of dollars each year and are trying to say that they're just responding to weather conditions and that's why their raised. They're raised to the point that they are because they're greedy bastards.

I agree to some extent, but I think a lot of people don't have a clue on just how seasonal some of this shit is (bitching always highest in summer), or much the price of the dollar impacts things.

Part of what's making those gas prices really move lately is that the relative strength of the dollar has gone up. World economies are tanking some, and the lack of credit means cash-on-hand is worth more, so the dollar swings.

Hedge funds and other speculators also don't have the capital to manipulate the oil market as much as they did. However, the primary reason is probably the fact that we have a global recession. I don't think any country is doing very well at this point. I live in NC and some gas stations still don't have any gas. For gas stations that do have gas, we only have regular unleaded and it costs $3.90.

$2.96!

2.73 down the street.

Looks like prices are about to go up again, possibly by Friday.

Time to fill up.

I filled up for $30 for the first time in forever. My record so far is $46.

It's amazing how the energy independence rhetoric dies just a little bit as the election nears. Yessirree... absolutely amazing...

What happened to bdiddy? did he use credit cards to buy oil futures? actually, i hope he didn't really lose any money on that.

It's amazing how the energy independence rhetoric dies just a little bit as the election nears. Yessirree... absolutely amazing...

I just heard a news teaser that reported Obama saying that creating a green energy economy was his #1 priority.

A man asked an Arab oil tycoon what the best price was for a barrel of oil. The tycoon said "Year one, $100. Year two, $100. Year three, $100. Year four, $20."

Point being, they make their money for 3 years. During those 3 years people start clamoring for different sources of energy. Then they make oil so cheap for a year all the invested money in alternative energy goes belly up, and people become complacent with oil again. Once we are back to being focused on oil it goes back to $100 a barrel. We are simply nearing that high price breaking point where the oil tycoons have to lower prices or they will drive themselves out of business.

I just heard a news teaser that reported Obama saying that creating a green energy economy was his #1 priority.
It won't make a dent at this point.
It's a neutral thing to say with regular at $2.59/gallon and falling.

I just hope it's true. I agree that it could be a magic bullet for a lot of areas we see in crisis.

I've said this before and I stand by it. The US needs to put a price floor on gasoline to ensure that research and development will have a payoff and get off the foreign oil crack pipe. I believe that even libertarian Ron Paul agrees.

In the long term, the US needs to phase in large gas taxes. This will keep prices high, but shift some of the profit from the oil companies and oil exporting countries to the US govt., which could reduce other taxes to offset. In the long run, this will lead to better choices when people buy cars and for automakers to develop more efficient cars. Ideally, this will stimulate development of altenative fuel vehicles as well. People need to assume that prices will remain high when they buy cars, because, once they own a new car, their demand for gas is locked in for a few years. The continued US dependence on foreign oil after the gas shortages of the 70s and leading to the most recent wars in the mideast will probably be regarded as one of the biggest foreign policy blunders in US history.

I wouldn't have a problem with the gas prices if some of the profits were going to developing other energy instead of lining the oil companies' pockets. I also don't have a problem for paying more when the price of crude goes up. The problem I have is when they are jacking up their profits, not the price overall.

2.43 on my way home today...

Shit. Nice.

dumping random links here

http://zfacts.com/p/35.html
http://inflationdata.com/inflation/Inflation_Rate/Gasoline_Inflation.asp
http://www.eia.doe.gov/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/wrgp/mogas_history.html

2.69 diesel... down from a 5.19 high btw.

Up a quarter today to $2.75

Up a quarter today to $2.75
Yeah Obama's hemorrhoids were acting up today.

$2.75 in the depths of a recession with seriously dampened demand. Can't wait to see where it shoots up to in the recovery.