From the "experts" at ESPN.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2411683

Bill Simmons voted for Dice as 6th man! LMAO!

LMFAO @ Scoop Jackson picking Flexo "I only play 20 minutes a game" Mourning as DPOY.

Here's how the fan voting stands right now (Dice not an option for 6th man?)




1) Who should win the MVP?

38.7% Kobe Bryant (Lakers)

30.0% LeBron James (Cavaliers)

13.2% Steve Nash (Suns)

7.4% Chauncey Billups (Pistons)

5.7% Dirk Nowitzki (Mavericks)

3.1% Dwyane Wade (Heat)

1.4% Elton Brand (Clippers)

0.6% Pau Gasol (Grizzlies)


2) Who should win Rookie of the Year?

89.2% Chris Paul (Hornets)

3.3% Andrew Bogut (Bucks)

2.4% Raymond Felton (Bobcats)

2.1% Charlie Villanueva (Raptors)

1.6% Deron Williams (Jazz)

1.4% Channing Frye (Knicks)


3) Who should win Coach of the Year?

32.4% Avery Johnson (Mavericks)

18.2% Flip Saunders (Pistons)

16.2% Mike Dunleavy (Clippers)

15.3% Phil Jackson (Lakers)

10.8% Mike D'Antoni (Suns)

7.1% Byron Scott (Hornets)


4) Who should win Defensive Player of the Year?

44.9% Ben Wallace (Pistons)

15.9% Bruce Bowen (Spurs)

13.0% Andrei Kirilenko (Jazz)

12.2% Ron Artest (Kings)

6.2% Shawn Marion (Suns)

4.4% Marcus Camby (Nuggets)

3.5% Gerald Wallace (Bobcats)


5) Who should win Sixth Man of the Year?

43.1% Mike Miller (Grizzlies)

14.5% Leandro Barbosa (Suns)

9.9% Earl Boykins (Nuggets)

8.2% Antoine Walker (Heat)

7.4% Donyell Marshall (Cavaliers)

5.3% Jamal Crawford (Knicks)

4.8% Speedy Claxton (Hornets)

3.6% Mo Williams (Bucks)

3.0% Channing Frye (Knicks)


6) Who should win Most Improved Player?

49.7% Boris Diaw (Suns)

12.7% Pau Gasol (Grizzlies)

9.2% Mike James (Raptors)

8.9% Jameer Nelson (Magic)

8.0% David West (Hornets)

6.7% Gerald Wallace (Bobcats)

4.9% Mehmet Okur (Jazz)


7) Which team would you consider the most pleasant surprise?

43.8% Clippers

23.0% Hornets

14.9% Lakers

11.8% Cavaliers

6.5% Suns


8) Which team would you consider the most disappointing?

37.0% Knicks

22.6% Rockets

16.8% Timberwolves

10.6% 76ers

8.5% Pacers

4.5% Warriors


Total Votes: 60,815

Dice shouldnt be a candidate for 6th man. He only played well 1/3 of the season.

However, having Antoine Walker on that list is just stupid.

I just found it odd that one of their own experts picked Dice to win the award, and then they didn't even list him as a candidate.

10.8% of those people are total fucking idiots, if I believe the ROY voting.

LMFAO at the ROY page. It looks funny.

I was shocked to see Channing Frye at the bottom of the 6th man list. For me it was close between Miller and Frye, but I thought Frye did just a bit more. I guess it comes down to the fact that the Knicks suck and the Grizz are pretty good.

Channing Frye is pretty much the only positive that NY has had on that blackhole of basketball they call a team.

anyone see nba fastbreaks highlight reel of the season. they had a collection of "dunk on Flexo" plays. shit was hilarious. damn alot guys dunked on him. but he blocked a fair share too.

2) Who should win Rookie of the Year?

89.2% Chris Paul (Hornets)

3.3% Andrew Bogut (Bucks)

2.4% Raymond Felton (Bobcats)

2.1% Charlie Villanueva (Raptors)

1.6% Deron Williams (Jazz)

1.4% Channing Frye (Knicks)


WTF?

It should be 100% Paul - no other rookie had the impact he had. How the fuck can people vote for anyone else?


7) Which team would you consider the most pleasant surprise?

43.8% Clippers

23.0% Hornets

14.9% Lakers

11.8% Cavaliers

6.5% Suns


The Clippers doing well isn't a surprise. They added Cassell.

The Hornets are the surprise IMO.

BTW, how can LAL, Cleveland and Phoenix be surprises? If Kobe, Lebron and Nash are so fucking great then it should be no surprise that their teams do well.


8) Which team would you consider the most disappointing?

37.0% Knicks


Only 37%? LMMFAO

The Clippers doing well isn't a surprise. They added Cassell.Don't nothin include Cuttino. [smilie=mean.gif]

Can someone take off the red/white and blue sunglasses and explain to me how Ben Wallace deserves the DPOY over Bruce Bowen?

Ben doesnt man up anyone to the level that Bowen does. Ben is a weakside defender as to Bowen being a defensive STOPPER. I try to watch as much NBA as possible and watching Bowen quite a few times and seeing Ben zillions of times it seems amazing that someone can make the assumption that Ben is a better defender than Bruce.

Bruce checks multiple positions and a varity of skill set players. From Dirk and Marion to Chauncey and Wade. Ben usually splits time with Sheed when a force plays Detroit and usually Ben does not do as good a job as Sheed anyways.

Oh boy, this is gonna be good.

Can someone take off the red/white and blue sunglasses and explain to me how Ben Wallace deserves the DPOY over Bruce Bowen?

Ben doesnt man up anyone to the level that Bowen does. Ben is a weakside defender as to Bowen being a defensive STOPPER. I try to watch as much NBA as possible and watching Bowen quite a few times and seeing Ben zillions of times it seems amazing that someone can make the assumption that Ben is a better defender than Bruce.

Bruce checks multiple positions and a varity of skill set players. From Dirk and Marion to Chauncey and Wade. Ben usually splits time with Sheed when a force plays Detroit and usually Ben does not do as good a job as Sheed anyways.

i don't think you can gloss over Ben's defensive stats. isn't he on par for another season of top ten in rebounds, blocks, and steals? IIRC, he's in great historical company with those stats.

also, saying Bowen can guard Dirk is kind of a misnomer. sure he can guard a jump shooting Dirk, but he'd get torn to shreds against any other PF who has any semblance of a post game. if Bowen were on Sheed or even Dice, he'd look foolish.

The problem is that BOWEN does check Dirk...I am sure you have watched the Dal SA games and you notice that Bruce is always on Dirk when the game comes down to the wire...He also checks Marion when Phoenix rolls to town along with Chaucney (should I mention what happened in the finals last year)

For you to say that Bowen would get torched if he checked Sheed or Dycess than what about if Ben tried to check...hell any SF, SG or PG in the league.

Lets take a look at stats...does that make a good defender? How many of those rebound are Offensive? and if blocks are so important does that make Darko a great defender...he has shown that he can block some shots...

Bowen SHUTS PEOPLE DOWN ON THE DEFENSIVE END. Ben does not...and ESPECIALLY not this year...

Bowen SHUTS PEOPLE DOWN ON THE DEFENSIVE END. Ben does not...and ESPECIALLY not this year...

This was ben's best defensive year. No player switches unto the Gs and SFs you mention better than him. You talk about clutch, end of game plays, how many times did ben swat a SF or G on the perimeter this year to win a game? I think its stupid perimeter guys even get votes, they have nowhere near the effect on a game especially with the new rules.

The problem is that BOWEN does check Dirk...I am sure you have watched the Dal SA games and you notice that Bruce is always on Dirk when the game comes down to the wire...He also checks Marion when Phoenix rolls to town along with Chaucney (should I mention what happened in the finals last year)

For you to say that Bowen would get torched if he checked Sheed or Dycess than what about if Ben tried to check...hell any SF, SG or PG in the league.

Bowen checks small guys, Ben checks the bigs. just because Bowen guards 1 big guy who pretty much plays like a 2 guard, doesn't mean he can guard the PF position.


Lets take a look at stats...does that make a good defender? How many of those rebound are Offensive? and if blocks are so important does that make Darko a great defender...he has shown that he can block some shots...

Bowen SHUTS PEOPLE DOWN ON THE DEFENSIVE END. Ben does not...and ESPECIALLY not this year...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2006040724 (Dirk 30pts 10 reb)

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2006030224 (Dirk 23 pts 11 reb)

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2005120106 (Dirk 14 pts 9 reb 6 asts)

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2005110506 (Dirk 34 pts 8 reb)

not sure if Dirk was being guarded by Bowen the entire game, but he certainly wasn't shut down.

Two of those games Dirk went 3-13 and 6-15 and they lost...lol

The problem is that BOWEN does check Dirk...I am sure you have watched the Dal SA games and you notice that Bruce is always on Dirk when the game comes down to the wire...He also checks Marion when Phoenix rolls to town along with Chaucney (should I mention what happened in the finals last year)

For you to say that Bowen would get torched if he checked Sheed or Dycess than what about if Ben tried to check...hell any SF, SG or PG in the league.

Bowen checks small guys, Ben checks the bigs. just because Bowen guards 1 big guy who pretty much plays like a 2 guard, doesn't mean he can guard the PF position.


Lets take a look at stats...does that make a good defender? How many of those rebound are Offensive? and if blocks are so important does that make Darko a great defender...he has shown that he can block some shots...

Bowen SHUTS PEOPLE DOWN ON THE DEFENSIVE END. Ben does not...and ESPECIALLY not this year...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2006040724 (Dirk 30pts 10 reb)

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2006030224 (Dirk 23 pts 11 reb)

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2005120106 (Dirk 14 pts 9 reb 6 asts)

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2005110506 (Dirk 34 pts 8 reb)

not sure if Dirk was being guarded by Bowen the entire game, but he certainly wasn't shut down.

Do you really want me to get the numbers of other teams bigs against Detroit? You remember what Bosh and Howard did to us?

and adding on, Ben is 5th in DRPG. This doesn't take into effect "balls batted out to teammates" which I would venture to guess he leads the league as his trademark is getting his hands on every ball.

Bowen guards one guy, Ben guards 5.

And he does it in a more offensive system.

Checkmate.

Bowen guards one guy, Ben guards 5.

And he does it in a more offensive system.

Checkmate.

THEMUHME=OWNED

The problem is that BOWEN does check Dirk...I am sure you have watched the Dal SA games and you notice that Bruce is always on Dirk when the game comes down to the wire...He also checks Marion when Phoenix rolls to town along with Chaucney (should I mention what happened in the finals last year)

For you to say that Bowen would get torched if he checked Sheed or Dycess than what about if Ben tried to check...hell any SF, SG or PG in the league.

Bowen checks small guys, Ben checks the bigs. just because Bowen guards 1 big guy who pretty much plays like a 2 guard, doesn't mean he can guard the PF position.


Lets take a look at stats...does that make a good defender? How many of those rebound are Offensive? and if blocks are so important does that make Darko a great defender...he has shown that he can block some shots...

Bowen SHUTS PEOPLE DOWN ON THE DEFENSIVE END. Ben does not...and ESPECIALLY not this year...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2006040724 (Dirk 30pts 10 reb)

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2006030224 (Dirk 23 pts 11 reb)

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2005120106 (Dirk 14 pts 9 reb 6 asts)

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2005110506 (Dirk 34 pts 8 reb)

not sure if Dirk was being guarded by Bowen the entire game, but he certainly wasn't shut down.

Do you really want me to get the numbers of other teams bigs against Detroit? You remember what Bosh and Howard did to us?

name one shutdown interior defender ever. Would you like to see Robinson's and Shaqs #s against Hakeem? Or Wilt against Russell? There is no such thing. You said bowen is a shut-down defender, we made no such claim of Ben or the capabilities of the position.

Do you really want me to get the numbers of other teams bigs against Detroit? You remember what Bosh and Howard did to us?

you're claiming that Bowen's a SHUTDOWN defender and that he can guard Dirk. from the looks of things he didn't shut down Dirk.

there's never going to be a defensive player who will regularly shutdown guys every night. the offensive player just has too much of an advantage.

IMO, Bowen's reputation as a great defender gives him many liberties on the defensive end, with hand checks and little body bumps. of course, he may have earned his reputation with good defense......but, IMO, if any random guy like Delfino guards Ray Allen the exact same way, he's fouling out in a quarter, imo. not to take away from Bowen being a good defender. i just think the lore of his magical defense is a bit inflated.

Bowen guards one guy, Ben guards 5.

And he does it in a more offensive system.

Checkmate.

LMAO! So then what does Sheed, Tayshaun and Chauncey guard? I mean...according to most NBA experts they are "All-NBA defense" players?

you=OWNED

Ben is a top 5 defensive player...sorry he robbed the award from artest a few years back...this year he does not deserve it either

Do you really want me to get the numbers of other teams bigs against Detroit? You remember what Bosh and Howard did to us?

you're claiming that Bowen's a SHUTDOWN defender and that he can guard Dirk. from the looks of things he didn't shut down Dirk.

there's never going to be a defensive player who will regularly shutdown guys every night. the offensive player just has too much of an advantage.

IMO, Bowen's reputation as a great defender gives him many liberties on the defensive end, with hand checks and little body bumps. of course, he may have earned his reputation with good defense......but, IMO, if any random guy like Delfino guards Ray Allen the exact same way, he's fouling out in a quarter, imo. not to take away from Bowen being a good defender. i just think the lore of his magical defense is a bit inflated.

Ben gets away with just as much IF NOT MORE then Bowen. Watch what happens down low during any Pistons game...Maybe I just see it a lot differently because I sit on the floor right across from the basket...but jesus Ben should foul out evey damn game.

If you look at Dirks numbers two games he totally contained him and held him WAY WAY below his averages...on top of the horrible shooting percentage...

I like this game. I'll play too.

Here's Bowen shutting down another top flight PF who he "checks when Phoenix rolls to town"

http://www.nba.com/games/20051119/PHXSAS/boxscore.html
Marion 22pts 56% 15rebs

http://www.nba.com/games/20060107/SASPHX/boxscore.html
Marion 20pts 50% 10rebs

http://www.nba.com/games/20060309/SASPHX/boxscore.html
Marion 18pts 47% 11rebs

http://www.nba.com/games/20060317/PHXSAS/boxscore.html
Marion 22pts 55% 12rebs

Marion's season averages - 21.7 pts, 52%, 11.9 rebs
Marion's average vs Spurs - 20.5 pts, 52%, 12 rebs

And to calculate the numbers given by Matt
Dirk's season averages - 26.6pts, 48%, 9 rebs
Dirk's average vs Spurs - 25.3pts, 42%, 9.5rebs

This is fun, here's Ray Allen's numbers
Allen's season averages - 25.0pts, 45.3%, 4.3rebs
Allen's average vs Spurs - 22.3pts, 46%, 3.3rebs

And Kobe
Kobe's season averages - 35pts, 44.9%, 5.3 rebs
Kobe's average vs Spurs - 30pts, 38.2%, 5.3 rebs

Melo
Melo's season average - 26.5pts, 48.1%, 4.9 rebs
Melo's average vs Spurs - 22.7pts, 38.7%, 8 rebs

Bowen guards one guy, Ben guards 5.

And he does it in a more offensive system.

Checkmate.

LMAO! So then what does Sheed, Tayshaun and Chauncey guard? I mean...according to most NBA experts they are "All-NBA defense" players?

you=OWNED

Ben is a top 5 defensive player...sorry he robbed the award from artest a few years back...this year he does not deserve it either

Artest owes him 1.

True story.

Sorry, I'm in awe of a guy that responds with, "I didnt get owned You got owned!" Such wit and cunning is above me.

SA minus Bowen is still a pretty good defensive team.

We've all seen what happens when you take Ben off the Pistons. This goes all the way back to the Carlisle days.

Who are Tay Sheed Rip and Chauncey guarding?

Theyre guarding guys that are scared as shit of taking the ball to the basket because of Ben Wallace. And it makes it a lot easier for thse guys to play defense.

Ben gets away with just as much IF NOT MORE then Bowen.

NOPE!

http://bourgueilbasket.free.fr/images/bowen.gif

Ben gets away with just as much IF NOT MORE then Bowen.

NOPE!

http://bourgueilbasket.free.fr/images/bowen.gif
yea bowen kicks and cheap shots people on a level unmatched. he's literally kicked and punched ray allen any chance he gets. never seems to get ejected though.

Ben gets away with just as much IF NOT MORE then Bowen. Watch what happens down low during any Pistons game...Maybe I just see it a lot differently because I sit on the floor right across from the basket...but jesus Ben should foul out evey damn game.

when was the last time anyone called out Ben for being a dirty player?

when was the last time anyone called out Ben for being a dirty player?

I think the correct answer to this question would be "Pacerfan".

Ron Artest killed and ate the heart of 16 people because Ben Wallace pushed him.

I'm enjoying this.

http://www.nba.com/games/20060221/SEASAS/boxscore.html
Allen - 20pts, 42.9%, 5 rebs

http://www.nba.com/games/20060326/SASSEA/boxscore.html
Allen - 33pts, 56.5%, 2 rebs

http://www.nba.com/games/20060411/SEASAS/boxscore.html
Allen - 14pts, 38.5%, 3 rebs

Allen's season averages - 25.0pts, 45.3%, 4.3rebs
Allen's average vs Spurs - 22.3pts, 46%, 3.3rebs

I'm enjoying this.

http://www.nba.com/games/20060221/SEASAS/boxscore.html
Allen - 20pts, 42.9%, 5 rebs

http://www.nba.com/games/20060326/SASSEA/boxscore.html
Allen - 33pts, 56.5%, 2 rebs

http://www.nba.com/games/20060411/SEASAS/boxscore.html
Allen - 14pts, 38.5%, 3 rebs

Allen's season averages - 25.0pts, 45.3%, 4.3rebs
Allen's average vs Spurs - 22.3pts, 46%, 3.3rebs

Well done sir. We did the same thing at WRH (or wherever the hell we were at the time) with Artest the year he won it, and the results were the same. No or limited difference for all the star players besides one, it may have been R-Jeff.

Kobe stopper. (Actually, he does seem to have a bit of an affect on Kobe)

http://www.nba.com/games/20051129/LALSAS/boxscore.html
Kobe - 25pts, 27.3%, 4 rebs

http://www.nba.com/games/20060306/SASLAL/boxscore.html
Kobe - 43pts, 53.1%, 6 rebs

http://www.nba.com/games/20060310/LALSAS/boxscore.html
Kobe - 29pts, 37.9%, 4 rebs

http://www.nba.com/games/20060330/SASLAL/boxscore.html
Kobe - 23pts, 34.6%, 7 rebs

Kobe's season averages - 35pts, 44.9%, 5.3 rebs
Kobe's average vs Spurs - 30pts, 38.2%, 5.3 rebs

Kobe scored every one of those points with Bowen on the bench. He scores in bunches.

Ben Wallace -is- a zone defense.

'Melo

http://www.nba.com/games/20051101/DENSAS/boxscore.html
Melo - 23pts, 58.8%, 8 rebs

http://www.nba.com/games/20051231/SASDEN/boxscore.html
Melo - 25pts, 36.2%, 8 rebs

http://www.nba.com/games/20060122/DENSAS/boxscore.html
Melo - 20pts, 21%, 8 rebs

Melo's season average - 26.5pts, 48.1%, 4.9 rebs
Melo's average vs Spurs - 22.7pts, 38.7%, 8 rebs

lol...are you guys looking at the shooting percentages of the players...just about everyone of them dropped.

lol...are you guys looking at the shooting percentages of the players...just about everyone of them dropped.

Yeah, they played the Spurs. Duh.

Playoffs 2005

Carmelo Anthony
Against Spurs, 19.2 ppg on 42%.

Ray Allen
Against Spurs, 21.5 ppg on 43%. (In the first round he had averaged 32ppg)

Shawn Marion
Against Spurs, 7.8 ppg on 39%. (Over the first two rounds he had averaged over 22ppg on over 50% shooting)

Rip Hamilton
Against Spurs, 16.7 ppg on 39%. (Over the first three rounds he had averaged over 20ppg on nearly 50% shooting)

Playoffs 2005

Carmelo Anthony
Against Spurs, 19.2 ppg on 42%.

Ray Allen
Against Spurs, 21.5 ppg on 43%. (In the first round he had averaged 32ppg)

Shawn Marion
Against Spurs, 7.8 ppg on 39%. (Over the first two rounds he had averaged over 22ppg on over 50% shooting)

Rip Hamilton
Against Spurs, 16.7 ppg on 39%. (Over the first three rounds he had averaged over 20ppg on nearly 50% shooting)

its good to know were voting for the 2005 playoffs DPOY.

Everybody knows Ben Wallace is a help defender, and the best one of this generation. He also does it without all the "tricks" Bowen uses. He's in the top 10 in pretty much every defensive category, and this is an off-year for him.

Bruce Bowen is so overrated it's hilarious. You stick him on an average defensive team and you wouldn't even notice the difference. You have clearly been drinking the Kool Aid over at SpursTalk.

I think muhme is a lil' anti ben. In the thread about ben and Flip he tried to get a side note in that he's overrated as a leader and that its cbill HNIC on the floor. But even Kstat( a known jumpshot loving Ben basher) gives Ben his due on this one.

Bruce Bowen is so overrated it's hilarious. You stick him on an average defensive team and you wouldn't even notice the difference. You have clearly been drinking the Kool Aid over at SpursTalk.

Wow...

I mean WOW...

I am not drinking to Kool-Aid at all. I just watch a ton of basketball, get to be around the Pistons a lot more than most and just see things differently than most Pistons fans.

The thing that gets me with this debate is that if you guys go to a Dallas, Cleveland or Miami board that is clear of the bias that Detroit and San Antonio fans see you will see that Bowen seems to be the CHOICE for most basketball posters...

Can someone take off the red/white and blue sunglasses and explain to me how Ben Wallace deserves the DPOY over Bruce Bowen?

Ben doesnt man up anyone to the level that Bowen does. Ben is a weakside defender as to Bowen being a defensive STOPPER. I try to watch as much NBA as possible and watching Bowen quite a few times and seeing Ben zillions of times it seems amazing that someone can make the assumption that Ben is a better defender than Bruce.

Bruce checks multiple positions and a varity of skill set players. From Dirk and Marion to Chauncey and Wade. Ben usually splits time with Sheed when a force plays Detroit and usually Ben does not do as good a job as Sheed anyways.

It's non issue either person is stealing the award from AK and that's the bottomline. Also, did Bowen really have an amazing season?

I think muhme is a lil' anti ben. In the thread about ben and Flip he tried to get a side note in that he's overrated as a leader and that its cbill HNIC on the floor. But even Kstat( a known jumpshot loving Ben basher) gives Ben his due on this one.

Ben aint the leader of the team...You guys can bash me if you want. I have been in the locker room after games and I have seen the practices. Billups is what makes that team run NOW. If you dont want to believe me than ask someone other than I that has been around the team during practices and had the opportunity to see the team after games in the locker room.

I am not drinking to Kool-Aid at all. I just watch a ton of basketball, get to be around the Pistons a lot more than most and just see things differently than most Pistons fans.

The thing that gets me with this debate is that if you guys go to a Dallas, Cleveland or Miami board that is clear of the bias that Detroit and San Antonio fans see you will see that Bowen seems to be the CHOICE for most basketball posters...

1.)So you're the self proclaimed pistons guru?

2.)Ummm miami and cleveland fans have no bias on the pistons? since when?

The thing that gets me with this debate is that if you guys go to a Dallas, Cleveland or Miami board that is clear of the bias that Detroit and San Antonio fans see you will see that Bowen seems to be the CHOICE for most basketball posters...

This suggests otherwise...




4) Who should win Defensive Player of the Year?

43.6% Ben Wallace (Pistons)

15.4% Bruce Bowen (Spurs)

15.3% Andrei Kirilenko (Jazz)

11.9% Ron Artest (Kings)

6.4% Shawn Marion (Suns)

4.2% Marcus Camby (Nuggets)

3.3% Gerald Wallace (Bobcats)

Replies: 114,909

The thing that gets me with this debate is that if you guys go to a Dallas, Cleveland or Miami board that is clear of the bias that Detroit and San Antonio fans see you will see that Bowen seems to be the CHOICE for most basketball posters...

This suggests otherwise...




4) Who should win Defensive Player of the Year?

43.6% Ben Wallace (Pistons)

15.4% Bruce Bowen (Spurs)

15.3% Andrei Kirilenko (Jazz)

11.9% Ron Artest (Kings)

6.4% Shawn Marion (Suns)

4.2% Marcus Camby (Nuggets)

3.3% Gerald Wallace (Bobcats)

Replies: 114,909

yes rival fans in the east are less bias the fans in general. [smilie=artist.gif]

The thing that gets me with this debate is that if you guys go to a Dallas, Cleveland or Miami board that is clear of the bias that Detroit and San Antonio fans see you will see that Bowen seems to be the CHOICE for most basketball posters...

This suggests otherwise...




4) Who should win Defensive Player of the Year?

43.6% Ben Wallace (Pistons)

15.4% Bruce Bowen (Spurs)

15.3% Andrei Kirilenko (Jazz)

11.9% Ron Artest (Kings)

6.4% Shawn Marion (Suns)

4.2% Marcus Camby (Nuggets)

3.3% Gerald Wallace (Bobcats)

Replies: 114,909


...and you take the vote of the average person that clicks espn.com as an intelligant basketball mind? Hell I know my dad and buddies voted on that if they hit up ESPN today and they have not even seen bowen play one game this year...Are you telling me that this is a good sample to take? This is more like a popularity contest. It is hard to take anything on espn that involves polls like this as a good feel for what it is like. Going to boards where you have fans that are active and actually talk basketball to give reasons for and against would be a better gauge IMO

Bruce Bowen is so overrated it's hilarious. You stick him on an average defensive team and you wouldn't even notice the difference. You have clearly been drinking the Kool Aid over at SpursTalk.

Wow...

I mean WOW...

I am not drinking to Kool-Aid at all. I just watch a ton of basketball, get to be around the Pistons a lot more than most and just see things differently than most Pistons fans.

The thing that gets me with this debate is that if you guys go to a Dallas, Cleveland or Miami board that is clear of the bias that Detroit and San Antonio fans see you will see that Bowen seems to be the CHOICE for most basketball posters...

And what makes the fans of Cleveland, Miami, and Dallas such experts on DPOY discussions? I'm not saying anything in bias here, I'm looking at the numbers. If Bowen had to play with bigs like Mark Blount and Juwan Howard, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

If you knew anything about basketball, you'd know defense starts in the middle. There are 3 or 4 guys I'd take over Bowen on the perimeter, and there are none I'd take over Ben in the middle.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2411683

these, are the espn 'expert' picks. not the average person that clicks espn.com

of course, it's still not as good a sample as "Going to boards where you have fans that are active and actually talk basketball"

ummm your dad and buddy arent the majority. if it were a detroit majority there, then all the awards would be homered up then by your theory.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2411683

these, are the espn 'expert' picks. not the average person that clicks espn.com

of course, it's still not as good a sample as "Going to boards where you have fans that are active and actually talk basketball"

Cow is at such a board and would agree with Mum, so he has a point...I guess.

and if ben didnt play with 3 other all stars and 3 other all defensive players I am sure his numbers would be a lot worse and we wouldnot be having this conversation.

I wonder why the US team wanted Bowen? Probably for his ability to knock down the baseline 3 ball. [smilie=applause.gi:

Muhme seems to be falling back on his"i got press credentials, so i know more than everyone" card the past few posts. thats unfortunate if he holds onto the "basketball mind" excuse. but thats his perogative if he looks at it that way.

and if ben didnt play with 3 other all stars and 3 other all defensive players I am sure his numbers would be a lot worse and we wouldnot be having this conversation.

I wonder why the US team wanted Bowen? Probably for his ability to knock down the baseline 3 ball. [smilie=applause.gi:

Wrong. Ben Wallace would still be loading up on steals, rebounds, blocks, and general mayhem. Ben was a defensive beast back when Chucky Atkins and Michael Curry were on the floor. Shooting percentages would skyrocket against Bowen and he'd be so busy muai thai kicking players in frustration he'd spend half the season suspended.

Probably. It's not like a guy who built the Phoenix Suns, a defensive machine, was doing the picking. It's also not like they wanted Ben Wallace, clearly for his FT sniping.

Steve Kerr-

DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR

Bruce Bowen – For years, people have been calling Bowen the best "perimeter" defender in the game. It's time to give him the full moniker: best defensive player in the league.

Bowen's relentless pressure on the opponent's best player takes teams completely out of rhythm offensively, and his versatility allows him to cover almost anyone on the floor. He has frustrated everyone from Dirk Nowitzki to Ray Allen the past couple of seasons with his suffocating work, and his efforts key the San Antonio Spurs' defensive strategy of forcing teams away from the middle of the floor.

Bowen is the Richard Hamilton of defensive players. He never stops moving his feet – or his hands, as his detractors point out – and like a great shooter who has confidence even while missing, Bowen never hangs his head when his man scores on him. He continues to battle for 48 minutes, content in knowing that he will wear his man down.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AqM8yFMAyWupnrREmFwVA5A5nYcB?slug=sk-awards041906&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Steve Kerr voted for Bowen? No way! Who did Shawn Elliott pick?


lol...are you guys looking at the shooting
percentages of the players...just about everyone of them dropped.

3 out of 5 dropped. 1 rose. 1 stayed the same.

I don't know about you but that SCREAMS DPOY to me.

and if ben didnt play with 3 other all stars and 3 other all defensive players I am sure his numbers would be a lot worse and we wouldnot be having this conversation.

I wonder why the US team wanted Bowen? Probably for his ability to knock down the baseline 3 ball. [smilie=applause.gi:
Ben did play withouth them before, and won DPOY with that squad.

Bowen also played on different teams, if you have to ask.

and dude who played for the Spurs and was teammate with Bowen would have no bias in this thing.

Steve Kerr voted for Bowen? No way! Who did Shawn Elliott pick?
LMFAO....Kerr's so bias he's even waving his chicago/SA fan flag on NBA live 06. I have to turn off the commentary when i play against the spurs.

As a legit big man I have to say:

Perimeter defenders are over-rated.

I don't give a fuck how many games you've seen or how many times you took a peek while Benwas in the shower the fact remains D starts in the middle.

Anyone who has played legit, competitive ball knows that.

As a legit big man I have to say:

Perimeter defenders are over-rated.

I don't give a fuck how many games you've seen or how many times you took a peek while Benwas in the shower the fact remains D starts in the middle.

Anyone who has played legit, competitive ball knows that.

Agree...tough to start in the middle when you have a league full of jump shooters and two of the top leaders in points in the paint are under 6'0 guards.

and dude who played for the Spurs and was teammate with Bowen would have no bias in this thing. [smilie=applause.gi:

As a legit big man I have to say:

Perimeter defenders are over-rated.

I don't give a fuck how many games you've seen or how many times you took a peek while Benwas in the shower the fact remains D starts in the middle.

Anyone who has played legit, competitive ball knows that.

Agree...tough to start in the middle when you have a league full of jump shooters and two of the top leaders in points in the paint are under 6'0 guards.

What is your point? Everybody knows if you make it inside it's a whole lot easier to score. Isn't that the point I've been making all along? Having quality big men defending the middle is absolutely necessary.

I assume you guys all agree that Ben is the best defender on the team?

When Duncan comes in or Shaq that Ben should be checking him because he is our best defender, correct?

I assume you guys all agree that Ben is the best defender on the team?

When Duncan comes in or Shaq that Ben should be checking him because he is our best defender, correct?

When the Spurs play Miami, does Bowen check Duncan?

Since you're obviously blind in your ben-hate, you're going to read right past this past, but oh hell why not....

For the 2651756271th time: Ben affects the other FIVE people on the court. He jumps out to guard PGs on switches, he holds his own vs Shaq, and all the while he makes the other FIVE players change their games because of his shot blocking ability.

Bowen affects one, and only one guy. He isnt even the best defender at his own spot, Artest is.

I assume you guys all agree that Ben is the best defender on the team?

When Duncan comes in or Shaq that Ben should be checking him because he is our best defender, correct?

Shaq, certainly. I'd rather have Rasheed on Duncan as they matchup a lot better. That's your problem Muhme, basketball is a game of matchups. Being the best overall defender on a team doesn't always mean you're defending the best overall offensive player on the other team. Kevin Garnett is the best offensive player on his team, how often is Bowen on him? How about Brand? Chris Bosh? Gasol?

I assume you guys all agree that Ben is the best defender on the team?

When Duncan comes in or Shaq that Ben should be checking him because he is our best defender, correct?

When the Spurs play Miami, does Bowen check Duncan?

Since you're obviously blind in your ben-hate, you're going to read right past this past, but oh hell why not....

For the 2651756271th time: Ben affects the other FIVE people on the court. He jumps out to guard PGs on switches, he holds his own vs Shaq, and all the while he makes the other FIVE players change their games because of his shot blocking ability.

Bowen affects one, and only one guy. He isnt even the best defender at his own spot, Artest is.

I agree. Especially with the last statement, Artest has gone to Sacramento and the whole demeanor has changed, I'm not sure if Bowen would do the samething in Sacramento, but I know the Spurs would be playing tough D with or without Bowen because of Duncan.

Bowen affects one, and only one guy. He isnt even the best defender at his own spot, Artest is.

Bruce Bowen isn't even the best defender on his team.

As a legit big man I have to say:

Perimeter defenders are over-rated.

I don't give a fuck how many games you've seen or how many times you took a peek while Benwas in the shower the fact remains D starts in the middle.

Anyone who has played legit, competitive ball knows that.

Agree...tough to start in the middle when you have a league full of jump shooters and two of the top leaders in points in the paint are under 6'0 guards.

Thank You for proving my point.

Because the league is full of shot-happy swingmen and PG's that like to drive the lane having a big man that kicks ass on D is essential.

Having a quality big defender on a team allows the perimeter defenders to play their men tighter, gamble a little bit for steals and all that good shit.

When the perimeter defender is beaten off the dribble there is another line of defense to contest the shot/clog the lane and basically make it harder for the swingman/guard.

It's fucking obvious and I appreciate you bringing up this discussion and playing Devil's Advocate.

Oh, you're not playing? You're serious? Fuck off with that bullshit

And before people forget about it the fact that we have Rasheed here makes a huge fucking difference as well.

Muhme...how about Bowen now?

http://www.nba.com/games/20060423/LALPHX/boxscore.html
Marion - 19pts, 53%, 7 rebs

http://www.nba.com/games/20060426/LALPHX/boxscore.html
Marion - 13pts, 33%, 9 rebs

http://www.nba.com/games/20060428/PHXLAL/boxscore.html
Marion - 20pts, 41%, 7 rebs

http://www.nba.com/games/20060430/PHXLAL/boxscore.html
Marion - 20pts, 54%, 12 rebs

http://www.nba.com/games/20060502/LALPHX/boxscore.html
Marion - 21pts, 41%, 9 rebs

Marion season averages - 21.8pts, 52.5%, 11.8 rebs
Marion averages vs Lakers - 16.6pts, 44.4%, 8.8 rebs

LAMAR ODOM HAS SHUT DOWN SHAWN MARION FOR A WHOLE PLAYOFF SERIES! LAMAR ODOM FOR DPOY!

http://www.nba.com/games/20060423/LALPHX/boxscore.html
Marion - 19pts, 53%, 7 rebs

http://www.nba.com/games/20060426/LALPHX/boxscore.html
Marion - 13pts, 33%, 9 rebs

http://www.nba.com/games/20060428/PHXLAL/boxscore.html
Marion - 20pts, 41%, 7 rebs

http://www.nba.com/games/20060430/PHXLAL/boxscore.html
Marion - 20pts, 54%, 12 rebs

http://www.nba.com/games/20060502/LALPHX/boxscore.html
Marion - 21pts, 41%, 9 rebs

Marion season averages - 21.8pts, 52.5%, 11.8 rebs
Marion averages vs Lakers - 16.6pts, 44.4%, 8.8 rebs

LAMAR ODOM HAS SHUT DOWN SHAWN MARION FOR A WHOLE PLAYOFF SERIES! LAMAR ODOM FOR DPOY!


Marion doesn't need Lamar's helpt to suck in the playoffs.
Btw, anyone still want Marion over Prince in the playoffs ? *cough* Muhme

Some people thought Marion was MVP material himself this year.

Some people thought Marion was MVP material himself this year.

Some people put hamsters up .......nevermind

Some people thought Marion was MVP material himself this year.

Some people put hamsters up .......nevermind


It's gerbils.