Assuming the Lions hold on to the 9th spot which of these players do you think the Lions should take?

Some players listed have an outside shot at being available when the Lions pick. I expect Bush, Mario Williams and D'Brick to not slip to 9. Trading up or down isn't an option here.

I don't think he'll be there, and I hate the Buckeyes, but I'd take Hawk.

I have major concerns about the LB corps staying healthy.

If Hawk is gone, I'd trade down to grab a LB and an OL later.

I don't think he'll be there, and I hate the Buckeyes, but I'd take Hawk.

I have major concerns about the LB corps staying healthy.

If Hawk is gone, I'd trade down to grab a LB and an OL later.

Yeah I think Hawk "should" be the favorite to be picked if all of the players I listed were available. I was thinking of eliminating him as he might have the least chance of being available at 9 but I have seen some mocks where he has dropped that far.

I chose Huff. From the little that I know he seems like he can be one of those rare impact players in the secondary. I hear he has a great work ethic and can play any spot in the secondary. If Huff can be anything like Palamolu, Ed Reed or even what Bennie Blades was he would be a great pick.

GD, curious if Hawk wasn't available and you couldn't trade up or down who would be your second choice?

I said Vince Young. Dude's a straight up winner and an AMAZING athlete.

If Vince Young or Matt Lienart there and we
don't take him, I'd break a lot of things.

Other than that, I like Huff, Hawk and Williams.

Geck,

I guess I just overlooked Leinart because there is no way that he'll be there.

So I suppose I'd take him, but what do we do with the other 4 QBs then? You cut King, obviously. You probably cut Orlavsky and hope that he clears waivers so you can add him to the practice squad.

And the you have Kitna, McCown and Leinart. And that's going to be a problem.

Why would a team with so many holes want that much depth at one spot? They wouldn't. And you can't trade either of the two guys you just signed.

Maybe you take Leinart and trade him to the Ravens for Ray Lewis?

So if you are going to make me pick a realistic choice, and I can't trade up/down, I think you take the Winston that you like best, even though I think if you take an OL that high, he better turn out to be a pro bowler some day.

Lets go with Winston. We need an O-Line.

The only realistic options from that list are Hawk, Huff, Justice, Ngata and Davis. No one else is actually a viable option at #9.

A few things.

Winston Justice the OT from USC is dropping in the draft due to the "Lack Of Work ethic" tag. If that's the case the Lions won't have anything to do with him.

Also, Mike Mayock of NFL network (the guy knows his shit) said that Leinart to him is a second round pick. I have seen a few draft boards that have him slipping in the teens because of his soft arm. mayock said that Leinart cannot throw the fastball into coverage.

With QB's anything can happen. Look at Aaron Rodgers last year. Right up to the draft every draft site had him in the top 10 and most top 5...he went 24.

The NFL knows QB's are a crapshoot. We Lions fans have known this forever.

It's generally accepted (at least by me) that Cutler is the most ready and has the least risk of all the QB's and Vince Young (who I think is not a legit NFL QB) has the most potential but won't be ready for at least 2 seasons.

I would be totally shocked if Leinart is there at 9, and if he is, I'd be doubly shocked if there wasn't someone on the phone to Millen wanting that pick.

It will be fun to watch.

He could go to the Titans, the Jets, the Packers (if Favre isn't coming back), the Raiders or even the Bills. I just don't see him dropping to 9, let alone the second round, but who knows?

A few things.

Winston Justice the OT from USC is dropping in the draft due to the "Lack Of Work ethic" tag. If that's the case the Lions won't have anything to do with him.

Disagree.

After his workout at the USC Pro Day, Justice has seen his stock skyrocket. He went from being a mid-to-late first rounder to the top of the first round, perhaps even the Top 10.


Also, Mike Mayock of NFL network (the guy knows his shit) said that Leinart to him is a second round pick. I have seen a few draft boards that have him slipping in the teens because of his soft arm. mayock said that Leinart cannot throw the fastball into coverage.

With QB's anything can happen. Look at Aaron Rodgers last year. Right up to the draft every draft site had him in the top 10 and most top 5...he went 24.

The NFL knows QB's are a crapshoot. We Lions fans have known this forever.

It's generally accepted (at least by me) that Cutler is the most ready and has the least risk of all the QB's and Vince Young (who I think is not a legit NFL QB) has the most potential but won't be ready for at least 2 seasons.

Cutler is far from being NFL ready. Of all the QB's available in this draft, Leinart is the safest pick.

A few things.

Winston Justice the OT from USC is dropping in the draft due to the "Lack Of Work ethic" tag. If that's the case the Lions won't have anything to do with him.

Disagree.

After his workout at the USC Pro Day, Justice has seen his stock skyrocket. He went from being a mid-to-late first rounder to the top of the first round, perhaps even the Top 10.


Also, Mike Mayock of NFL network (the guy knows his shit) said that Leinart to him is a second round pick. I have seen a few draft boards that have him slipping in the teens because of his soft arm. mayock said that Leinart cannot throw the fastball into coverage.

With QB's anything can happen. Look at Aaron Rodgers last year. Right up to the draft every draft site had him in the top 10 and most top 5...he went 24.

The NFL knows QB's are a crapshoot. We Lions fans have known this forever.

It's generally accepted (at least by me) that Cutler is the most ready and has the least risk of all the QB's and Vince Young (who I think is not a legit NFL QB) has the most potential but won't be ready for at least 2 seasons.

Cutler is far from being NFL ready. Of all the QB's available in this draft, Leinart is the safest pick.

I am just going off what I heard and read. Then again it might of been the other Winston that I heard has the work ethic issue. Not sure so I will defer to you on this one.

cbssportsline draft....

9. Detroit Lions

Matt Leinart, QB, USC: Falling? This is the year of the Trojan in the draft. Leinart here guarantees that at least two USC players will go in the top 10. The Lions might be fed up with former Pac-10 quarterbacks (see ya, Joey) but Leinart is a gift falling to them at No. 9. Why so low? He just doesn't fit anywhere else above Detroit. At least not in this war room.

I'd take Vince first.

Leinart was dope, but Vince even had him in stats without a Reggie Bush or
a Lendale White. I just don't see why it's even a question as far as Young goes.

He's going to be a fucking stud. He's big as hell and was electrifying while
carrying his team to two straight bowl wins, Rose and then the National Chip.

What is everyone so low on him? It's ridiculous!

I think he could be very good, but I think the Lions need the closest thing to a "safe bet" that they can get, especially after the last highly drafted QB was a bust (and the one before, and the one before...).

Can't say that about VY, IMO.

If Vince Young or Matt Lienart there and we
don't take him, I'd break a lot of things.

I swear I remember saying that about Morris Peterson and Rodney White.

I was right about Peterson, but very, very wrong about White.

I still remember where I was during both of those drafts. When we picked Mateen, I was at my best friend's house. I saw they took Mateen over Peterson, and started screaming and throwing pillows at the TV, calling Dumars an idiot and wondering how he could be so stupid.

And I still remember where I was when they drafted Rodney White. I was at a cousin's house, for a family get together, with my fingers crossed that the top 8 teams in the lottery wouldn't steal him away from us. Each time someone else picked - and it wasn't Rodney White - I started cheering. "The Cleveland Cavaliers select Desagana Diop" - YESSS!!!!! My dream come true - "with the 9th pick in the NBA draft, the Detroit Pistons select [the guy Michael Jordan said should be the #1 pick] Rodney White". WHOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! [smilie=applause.gi: [smilie=applause.gi:

Oh, well. I guess we can't pick 'em all, can we?

How rodney didn't end up being Al Harrington still befuddles me today after the way he played in college (besides the alcoholism thing).

If VY has proven himself as a winner, how is that not a safe bet?

If you can find a pro scout that says VY is a polished, NFL-ready QB, then I'll call him a safe bet.

He's raw, and he's a gamble.

He might be a good gamble for some team, I seem him as high risk/high reward, but I don't think the Lions can afford to go down that path right now, especially after just signing two other QBs.

If we hadn't signed Kitna and McCown, I'd be all for taking Leinart/Young/Cutler at 9.

If VY has proven himself as a winner, how is that not a safe bet?

Mateen Cleaves?

Charlie Ward?

Any Nebraska quarterback in the history of the world?

Most Florida quarterbacks?

VY was a fucking stud. Check the stats.

Mateen was a "leader" but his stats were never amazing.
Same with Ward. He was a better football player.

Young beat the shit out of Michigan, probably the best defense that year
and then USC, one of the greatest college teams of all time. What's the problem?

Stats/workouts/track record/good attitude

What the fuck is going on?

http://i2.tinypic.com/vdzdpk.gif

What the fuck is going on?

Ask this man.

http://photos17.flickr.com/21214194_0535787ec1.jpg

Pesonally Vince Young would be the last QB I would take in this draft. Forget the fact that he has that gay limp wristed delivery it's the simple case that no Run First QB has ever won squat in this league.

I can't stand Michael Vicks game and think he's the second best QB on that team and should be the backup to Schaub.

If Young can turn out to be a McNair, Young throw first and use your feet to win second than maybe he has a chance.

Personally I would draft VY as a Wide Out and I am not kidding.

Pesonally Vince Young would be the last QB I would take in this draft. Forget the fact that he has that gay limp wristed delivery it's the simple case that no Run First QB has ever won squat in this league.

I can't stand Michael Vicks game and think he's the second best QB on that team and should be the backup to Schaub.

If Young can turn out to be a McNair, Young throw first and use your feet to win second than maybe he has a chance.

Personally I would draft VY as a Wide Out and I am not kidding.LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You're insane man. Check the stats. He threw better than the good ol' boys too!
He also had the 2nd strongest arm in the skills competition. This shit is hilarious.

[quote=Gecko]Pesonally Vince Young would be the last QB I would take in this draft. Forget the fact that he has that gay limp wristed delivery it's the simple case that no Run First QB has ever won squat in this league.

I can't stand Michael Vicks game and think he's the second best QB on that team and should be the backup to Schaub.

If Young can turn out to be a McNair, Young throw first and use your feet to win second than maybe he has a chance.

Personally I would draft VY as a Wide Out and I am not kidding

You're insane man. Check the stats. He threw better than the good ol' boys too!
He also had the 2nd strongest arm in the skills competition. This shit is hilarious.
LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am not doubting his athleticism or leadership. That's not the issue here, even if he has trouble getting that sidearm throw off without it be batted down he still has those qualities. Like I said what's at issue here is QB's that use their legs to win are actually more detrimental to their teams. At first sign of trouble Young like Vick will look to run. This doesn't cut it in the NFL. Maybe the CFL would be a great fit for Young? Vince Young is just another Randall Cunningham.

Can a run-first QB become a great qb? I mean young was a run first, that worked out. Flutie and cunningham and McNair were all succesful in time. The player just needs to use his legs as a weapon to punish instead of a tool the rely on. VY could develop into a passer, god knows he has a gun.

Can a run-first QB become a great qb? I mean young was a run first, that worked out. Flutie and cunningham and McNair were all succesful in time. The player just needs to use his legs as a weapon to punish instead of a tool the rely on. VY could develop into a passer, god knows he has a gun.


Common mistake...Steve Young, Mcnair, Flutie, McNabb and Culpepper are all not or were not run first QB's. They all used their arms first and foremost. The intelligence of a Steve Young to stick in the pocket instead of running at the first sign of pressure is what seperates him and some others from the field.

Cunningham and Vick on the other hand are run first QB's.

A QB needs to be highly intelligent, have a good feel for the game and have a high football IQ to succeed. This goes for the fastest, slowest, biggest arms, weakest arms whatever.

VYoung is as smart as a bowl of rocks.

Maybe the CFL would be a great fit for Young? Vince Young is just another Randall Cunningham.Those comments don't seem to string together quite right. Last time I checked, Randall Cunningham was a good QB.


Common mistake...Steve Young, Mcnair, Flutie, McNabb and Culpepper are all not or were not run first QB's. They all used their arms first and foremost. The intelligence of a Steve Young to stick in the pocket instead of running at the first sign of pressure is what seperates him and some others from the field.

Cunningham and Vick on the other hand are run first QB's.

A QB needs to be highly intelligent, have a good feel for the game and have a high football IQ to succeed. This goes for the fastest, slowest, biggest arms, weakest arms whatever.

VYoung is as smart as a bowl of rocks.You're fucking insane. Since you didn't want to pull the stats, I will...

http://i2.tinypic.com/venlhz.jpg

Throw in rushing stats and it's a landslide. This shit is retarded.

Can a run-first QB become a great qb? I mean young was a run first, that worked out. Flutie and cunningham and McNair were all succesful in time. The player just needs to use his legs as a weapon to punish instead of a tool the rely on. VY could develop into a passer, god knows he has a gun.


Common mistake...Steve Young, Mcnair, Flutie, McNabb and Culpepper are all not or were not run first QB's. They all used their arms first and foremost. The intelligence of a Steve Young to stick in the pocket instead of running at the first sign of pressure is what seperates him and some others from the field.

Cunningham and Vick on the other hand are run first QB's.

A QB needs to be highly intelligent, have a good feel for the game and have a high football IQ to succeed. This goes for the fastest, slowest, biggest arms, weakest arms whatever.

VYoung is as smart as a bowl of rocks.

I disagree. I don't like young, but this was a bad post none-the less. All the guys I named were mass runners for a long time, and Cunningham threw for 3800 yards once. Guys change. Yes, Randall and Vick ran more, they are going to end up 1 and 2 on the all time list.

I won't get into your intelligence comment, but a lot of real sucessful QBs had very low scores including Marino, Testaverde, Jeff George, and McNabb while there are hundreds who did well on the wonderlic and never made it.

Some succesful QB's have worn boxers and others briefs. You're right his wonderlic it doesn't matter, unless he is stupid. I don't know and I take back my comment.

One more thing to ccnsider. VY has ever operated out of a pro style offense. He ran the option and operated out of the shotgun. Jamal Holloway was the best option QB I ever seen and he never made it in the NFL.

Some succesful QB's have worn boxers and others briefs. You're right his wonderlic it doesn't matter, unless he is stupid. I don't know and I take back my comment.

One more thing to ccnsider. VY has ever operated out of a pro style offense. He ran the option and operated out of the shotgun. Jamal Holloway was the best option QB I ever seen and he never made it in the NFL.

Of all the argument against VY, that is the only one that can actually be used to say that he won't succeed in the pro's.

Lions are on the clock in ESPN's SportsNation mock.

http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/story?id=2406023#

BTW, I did the RealGM user mock over there as the Lions. I sure hope the Lions get who I got.

1st round: AJ Hawk
2nd round: Max Jean Giles
3rd round: Daniel Bullocks

I got replacements for Holmes, Holt and Demulling. I felt all of them were steals too, although some feel Giles was slipping.

My vote goes to Winston Justice. Our line sucks and sooner or later filling our roster with guys that have been proven winners in college should pay off. If Justice wasn't there I'd go with Huff or Hawk.

There is a rumor that if D'Brickashaw is there at #5 when the Packers pick, Millen will offer the #9 pick and Mike Williams for the #5 and a 4th rounder. No source on that one, just someone I know heard that rumor on the radio.

Has anyone seen Broderick Bunkley and his physique?

Holy crap. I was watching the NFL channel last night and they were showing the best clips of the NFL combine and then they showed Bunkley. OMG I have never seen anything like it. Picture a 310 pound human being ripped with very little body fat. I had to pause it and bring my wife in to see him. She commented that he looked like a black version of the incredible Hulk. I mean just incredible.

Has anyone seen Broderick Bunkley and his physique?

Holy crap. I was watching the NFL channel last night and they were showing the best clips of the NFL combine and then they showed Bunkley. OMG I have never seen anything like it. Picture a 310 pound human being ripped with very little body fat. I had to pause it and bring my wife in to see him. She commented that he looked like a black version of the incredible Hulk. I mean just incredible.

Have we heard for sure whether Big Daddy will retire? I think it's fair for Millen to demand an answer before the draft. Even if they think Cody can fill his role in the Tampa 2 defense, they'll still need a good backup in the middle rounds. If they don't think Cody is a full time starter, they better get a DT at #9 or hope Watson is there in the second round.

I found this Bunkley draft analysis on Draftdaddy.com. Where I think Bunkley is huge I guess he's undersized for a DT. Here's a good read on Bunk, Gabe Watson and Haloti. Glowing analysis on Gabe...Shows you I have no idea what I am talking about heh.

http://www.draftdaddy.com/Blog/blog032006.cfm


In the last few weeks, the defensive tackle rankings throughout the land have shown a switch where Broderick Bunkley out of Florida State leapfrogged over Michigan's Gabe Watson and in some cases over Oregon's Haloti Ngata to take higher ranking on the DT positional boards.
Let us be very clear Draft Daddy is not bashing Broderick Bunkley. He is a great prospect from a fantastic program, one that has had great success producing NFL players. He comes from a great line of pro-ready Florida State defensive tackles, in recent history have included Darnell Dockett and Travis Johnson. Bunk should be very successful at the next level, if he continues to work hard and stay healthy. We like this player a-lot. However something has to be said about this player's current standing relative to players with bigger upsides.
For as great as Broderick Bunkley worked out (and he worked out amazingly well, with 44 bench press reps and a sub 5 second forty-yard dash at Indy), and for as great as he played as a senior, recording 25 tackles for loss and 9 sacks - for all that, there are several limitations to Bunkley's game that no-one seems to want to talk about.
First and foremost he is barely three hundred pounds and has maxed out his frame. He cannot get that much bigger and become a true two-gap player in the NFL. Believe it or not, just because his shoulders are too wide to fit into the egg-shaped body fat measurement pod he still has a lack of bulk and can get overwhelmed at point of attack.

As a penetrating 4-3 DT or a 3-4 DE yes he is proportioned very nicely. However he is not, nor will ever have the run-stopping potential of Ngata or Watson. Speaking about his technique he plays with tremendous will-power and drive, relying upon his great strength and first step but simply doesn't have the refined technique that defensive line coaches love to see - and why would he need such technique when usually he overpowers or out-quicks the linemen in NCAA 1-A? However he has a lot of work in front of him to become a dominating player in the NFL.
And, at the end of the day, what is his best-case outcome? To become a 10 sack player like Warren Sapp or Darrell Russell? These players are flash-in-the-pan types and the 10 sack 4-3 DT is basically a pipedream; it just doesn't happen that way for most of the prospects projected that way. Not to mention the fact that Bunkley tore up his knees pretty badly in high school and actually sat out a Senior Bowl practice with soreness in his repaired knee.

For these reasons, he will remain #3 on our rankings, and barring scandal cannot leapfrog the players above him. Again this is not necessarily a slam on this player; his stock simply has become overvalued.

The other half of the equation is that most everyone in the draft watching world are under-rating Ngata and Watson, the real 350 pounders.

Both Ngata and Watson are the type of players NFL scouts have heard about for years, since they were prep athletes deciding what college to attend. These men have completely unique size/speed combinations and are true manifestations of the planet theory. How many players in the world can run well at 350 pounds? Well right now in this draft there are only two guys who fit the bill, and Bunkley is not on that list.

Haloti Ngata is clearly the best tackle in the class, and those that say he takes plays off or has a questionable motor, well flat out aren't watching closely enough. A player doesn't become the first All-American from Oregon in 35 years as a junior because he is lazy or takes plays off. Watch the film he is the focal point of every offensive line blocking scheme - he simply must be accounted for with multiple blockers. Now every mock in the country seemingly has this player dropping to the 8-12 range and then commenting "the Bills are thrilled to have this player" or "the Browns can't believe their luck when Ngata falls this far." Call us cynical but if a team is lucky to get a player at a rare position at 8 or 12 then someone smarter should take him higher than that. How can draft guru's so consistently predict fortuitous luck across the board?

Likewise, every mock in America has Gabe Watson falling to the late twenties or out of the first round altogether, but wherever he is projected, why some team is very happy to draft him so late! Simply put it doesn't work that way. Hard work and consistency doesn't trump upside in the NFL draft. Lloyd Carr (who to be quite frank has run a talent-rich program into the ground over the last 10 years) made an ill advised benching of Gabe Watson for over-stuffed linebackers and all of a sudden Watson's fat and lazy.

Well for those that don't remember there was another player several years ago people thought was too fat and lazy when he was coming out, Ted Washington. Anyone can eat their way out of the league, that doesn't mean teams should draft low upside smaller DTs. There is a poker saying if you want to pick em up you have to put em down. No prospect is without risk and it is entirely possible that such overwhelming players can turn the switch on at the next level when they didn't need to in college. Bottom line in Gabe Watson we are talking about a natural 340 pounder that can occupy and beat double teams, who is an absolute force in the run game, and more than that a player who put on a show in Mobile that was as good as if not better than Kevin Williams' show in 2003. In one session Watson had 6 tackles for loss in an hour. Let me just say that again: 6 tackles for loss in an hour! As my Italian gradfather would say, "oooof-ah!"

Where was Bunkley during this display? Not to slam the player but he was on the side-line nursing an injury while Watson was throwing the offensive linemen around like rag-dolls. Players like this shouldn't be passed over for penetrating one-gap 4-3 DT's who are 305 pounds.

The draft is by and large an unpredicitable event, which is why flowing it is so fun; but history has proven at least that Planet Theory manifests itself every year, sometimes at the last minute. Watson and Ngata are Planet Theory players, Bunkley is also such a player but to a lesser extent - players like him simply are not as rare.

http://www.gbnreport.com/

One player who several teams appear to be jockeying over is Vanderbilt QB Jay Cutler. Both Detroit and Arizona, which pick 9th and 10th respectively, are saying publicly that they have not ruled out taking the former Commodores’ gunslinger at those spots. The sense is that both teams could indeed be interested in the QB; indeed, it certainly would make some sense for the Cardinals, who need a young developmental QB to groom behind veteran starter Kurt Warner, to take Cutler, however, its also possible both the Lions and Cardinals would be prepared to deal their picks to teams like St. Louis or Minnesota, which pick 11th and 17th respectively who really do reportedly want Cutler. In fact, the Rams had earlier been rumored to be talking with Buffalo about swapping the 8th and 11th picks to that end