Postgame

Pistons 87, Magic 89


http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20060408/capt.fljr10804080235.pistons_magic_basketball_fljr 108.jpg

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20060408/capt.fljr10204080032.pistons_magic_basketball_fljr 102.jpg


Box Score (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2006040719)

NBA.com Video Highlights (http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia/nba/nbacom/recaps/recap_1123_detorl.asx)

Chat Log (http://www.wtfdetroit.com/chatlogs/4.7.06_magic_chatlog.txt)



ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) -- Chauncey Billups outplayed Orlando's backcourt for almost all of the fourth quarter -- until the very end.

Jameer Nelson hit two last-minute shots, the second a fadeaway jumper with 6.5 seconds left, and Hedo Turkoglu had 26 points and seven rebounds to help the Orlando Magic beat the Detroit Pistons 89-87 Friday night.

"I know I can take it to the hole. I knew in my mind it was good," Nelson said.

Trailing by two with 3 seconds remaining, Detroit's Tony Delk missed two free throws. Antonio McDyess corralled the rebound and put up a 12-foot airball, which Dwight Howard grabbed as time expired.

Billups led Detroit with 25 points and eight assists, while Delk scored 18 and Tayshaun Prince chipped in 15.

The win was the Magic's ninth straight at home and snapped the Pistons' six-game winning streak. It was also Orlando's second victory in three games against one of the NBA's marquee teams after beating Dallas at home a week ago. Detroit was playing back-to-back games after beating Miami 95-82 on Thursday night.

"It's what we needed," Turkoglu said. "Winning this kind of big game, building our confidence. Building a team for next year is going to be really huge. If you look at it, we beat Dallas and now Detroit."

Turkoglu was hurt on the last play after having his legs cut out from under him, but X-rays came back negative. The Magic said he has a bone bruise and will undergo an MRI Saturday.

Howard had 12 points and 10 rebounds and Tony Battie had 11 points for Orlando.

Nelson hit a 20-footer to tie the game at 87 with 42 seconds left, and Billups missed a 3-point attempt the next trip down.

Orlando called timeout with 17.3 seconds left, setting up Nelson to drive left of the lane for the game-winning shot.

Detroit didn't score a field goal for the first 6:28 of the fourth quarter until Prince hit a 3-pointer from the wing with 5:32 left, but crept out of a five-point deficit with eight straight free throws from Billups on four straight trips. The All-Star and MVP candidate finished 12-of-12 from the line.

Orlando Magic's Jameer Nelson (14) drives on Detroit Pistons' Tayshaun Prince to position himself for the winning jump shot with 6.5 seconds left to give the Magic a 89-87 victory in an NBA basketball game in Orlando, Fla., on Friday, April 7, 2006.

"Every time we fought back they hit big shots. We have to give them credit," Billups said.

Prince's basket also gave Detroit its first lead of the game, which was quickly extended by another Billups 3-pointer after another Magic turnover.

The Pistons were without leading scorer Richard Hamilton, who flew to Tulsa, Okla., because of a death in the family.

After 73 straight starts this season with the same starting lineup -- 98 straight counting the playoffs last year -- the Pistons have played two of their last three games with just four of their usual starting five. Rasheed Wallace was out Tuesday serving a suspension in a 101-93 win over New Orleans.

Orlando used an 18-6 run midway through the second quarter to build a 54-39 halftime lead, but watched nervously in the second half as Detroit chipped away. The Pistons overcame a 12-point fourth quarter deficit the night before to handily beat Miami, but couldn't find a way to score off the line late against Orlando.

"We wasted the first half. We came out in the second half and tried to fight and claw to get back into the game. Once we got back into the game, they made big plays," Ben Wallace said. "When you play like that sometimes it gets you in the end. This was one of those nights."

Notes

The Magic outscored Detroit in the paint 34-26. ... Orlando shot 53 percent from the field, compared with 45 percent for Detroit. ... Darko Milicic had eight points and four rebounds and Carlos Arroyo scored 10 in their first game against Detroit since being dealt to Orlando in February.

Pregame
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VS
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http://www.wtfdetroit.com/ogt/game76pistonsvsmagic.jpg


The Detroit Pistons look to inch closer to locking up the NBA's best record and the best in franchise history when they visit the Orlando Magic.

With seven games remaining, Detroit holds a three-game lead over San Antonio in the race to finish with the league's top record and gain home-court advantage throughout the playoffs.

The Pistons need just three more victories to set a franchise single-season record, set in 1988-89 when the team went 63-19 and won the first of back-to-back championships.

Detroit already set a team record for road wins in one season, getting its 27th on Thursday with a 95-82 victory over the Miami Heat. The Pistons' 27-11 road record is the NBA's best.

"We take a lot of pride in being a good road team," said Chauncey Billups, who had 14 points and nine assists. "From day one, we talked about being a great road team."

While the Pistons couldn't shut down Shaquille O'Neal or Dwyane Wade, who combined for 57 points, none of the other Heat players scored more than six.

Detroit led by as many as 13 in the third quarter before the Heat's stars brought the team to within two points with 4 minutes remaining. The Pistons, however, finished the game on a 14-3 run.

Rasheed Wallace had 20 points in his return after serving a one-game suspension for picking up his 16th technical foul of the season.

Detroit stays in Florida to face a surging Orlando team which has won six of seven, including Wednesday's 108-105 victory over the Milwaukee Bucks behind Hedo Turkoglu's 24 points.

Magic coach Brian Hill sees Friday's game as a barometer of his team's progress in the last month of the season. When the teams last met, Orlando was in the middle of its worst stretch of the season, losing 18 of 20 from Jan. 27-March 6.

Since then, the Magic have gone 10-4.

"We'll see how we do against them," Hill said. "That's the nice thing about having games down the stretch -- you might as well test yourself against the best. This will be the first time we've played Detroit since we've made the changes in our team. We'll see how far we've come."

The Pistons have won 10 of the last 12 meetings.

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[smilie=llama_banan:

A snippet from the News today -



Darko reunion

The Pistons are looking forward to seeing former teammates Carlos Arroyo and Darko Milicic tonight when they play the Magic.

Arroyo is averaging 11 points since the trade. Milicic, playing 21 minutes, is averaging 7.9 points, 4.6 rebounds and 2.32 blocks.

"I told you all (that he could play) but you didn't want to listen," Rasheed Wallace said of Milicic. "You all thought I was full of it. But I told a lot of people that all Darko needed was some time and he couldn't get it here because he was playing behind me, Dyess (Antonio McDyess ) and Ben (Wallace). Darko is all right."

Chauncey Billups , sitting a couple of chairs over, said with a laugh, "I wish we would have played Darko instead of you."

To which Wallace replied, "Yeah, and I wish we had Chris Paul as our point guard."

A snippet from the News today -



Darko reunion

The Pistons are looking forward to seeing former teammates Carlos Arroyo and Darko Milicic tonight when they play the Magic.

Arroyo is averaging 11 points since the trade. Milicic, playing 21 minutes, is averaging 7.9 points, 4.6 rebounds and 2.32 blocks.

"I told you all (that he could play) but you didn't want to listen," Rasheed Wallace said of Milicic. "You all thought I was full of it. But I told a lot of people that all Darko needed was some time and he couldn't get it here because he was playing behind me, Dyess (Antonio McDyess ) and Ben (Wallace). Darko is all right."

Chauncey Billups , sitting a couple of chairs over, said with a laugh, "I wish we would have played Darko instead of you."

To which Wallace replied, "Yeah, and I wish we had Chris Paul as our point guard."

[smilie=hahaha.gif] [smilie=hahaha.gif]

darko4evalazycrybaby
I fixed it.
[smilie=2thumbsup.g:

http://www.informationleafblower.com/blog/archives/darkorules!.jpg
A misunderstood artist turned villain after a delusional vision of a nightmare that never was.

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/images/photos6.7/8132_512.jpg
A Sith Lord who saw no reason to convert this wannabe Jedi.

http://bekahelizabeth27.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/darko_milicic_159x280.jpg
A Serbian Douche With a false prophecy. With a following of psycho devil worshipers who still believe in him the chosen one.


http://www.onlinesports.com/images/ud-33426.jpg
The pieces are falling............

http://hosted.ap.org/photos/D/DOA10203110239-small.jpg
......Into place as this knucklehead had forseen it.

http://cache.deadspin.com/sports/freedarkoimage.jpg
Now evil has a new face!

http://www.sportsbettingindex.net/images/sports_01/BenWallace02.jpg
"Evil my ass! The Overhyped villain is going down Sucka'!"

http://www.sportsbettingindex.net/images/sports_01/gWallace01.jpg
"He said what about Detroit??!!"

http://www.myimgs.com/data/godzillatemple/Fark/rasheed_superman.jpg
Krypton's greatest Son races to the Scene to deal with this ambitious wannabe criminal mastermind!

http://blog.khan.co.kr/usr/l/s/lsd81/53/Ben%20Wallace.jpg
The Beast himself is not pleased by this interruption of his off time. [smilie=anxious.gif]

http://www.freeimagelibrary.com/images/ddot313/freddydumars27of.jpg
Tonight. Darko Dies!!

Darko reunion

The Pistons are looking forward to seeing former teammates Carlos Arroyo and Darko Milicic tonight when they play the Magic.

Arroyo is averaging 11 points since the trade. Milicic, playing 21 minutes, is averaging 7.9 points, 4.6 rebounds and 2.32 blocks.

"I told you all (that he could play) but you didn't want to listen," Rasheed Wallace said of Milicic. "You all thought I was full of it. But I told a lot of people that all Darko needed was some time and he couldn't get it here because he was playing behind me, Dyess (Antonio McDyess ) and Ben (Wallace). Darko is all right."

Chauncey Billups , sitting a couple of chairs over, said with a laugh, "I wish we would have played Darko instead of you."

To which Wallace replied, "Yeah, and I wish we had Chris Paul as our point guard."

QUOTE OF THE YEAR

http://blog.khan.co.kr/usr/l/s/lsd81/53/Ben%20Wallace.jpg
The Beast himself is not pleased by this interruption of his off time.

Ben's daughter just tooted in that picture.

About the only semi-interesting thing in this game will be how Darko plays. It's basically a forgone conclusion that we'll win, if we show up. With the Ripster out, who knows?

Pistons 105 - Darroyo 87

just so that i dont hear rorschach tear me apart after the game, i fully expect darko to get dominated out there.

i won't be around for the game tonight......but if anyone wants a radio feed, Skype-me in the chatroom. it's on auto-answer :)

Delfino with the start in place of Rip.

just so that i dont hear rorschach tear me apart after the game, i fully expect darko to get dominated out there.
http://gc.advancedmn.com/images/content/forums/lmao.JPG

Setting the bar low to keep from any abuse? Hmmm if he passes your extra low bar for success, do you try to call him Hakeem O'Millicic? hmmmmm

Delfino with the start in place of Rip.
Damnit thats not funny. [smilie=anxious.gif] [smilie=arrgh.jpg] The first starter to ever play 2 minutes despite being healthy.

That Darko kid is no good. You haters were all right.

He's got no heart. He's not trying out there. He's not even hustling.

His 'apparent' good play tonight is all smoke and bullshit mirrors.

You're being sarcastic. But if you werent you're right.

This mo evans/ delk lineup is a defensive liability sometimes.. But as long as billups is out there too with em. i wont die of fustration.

EDIT:Billups came out=Fustration [smilie=angry.gif] Die Evans

Someone please get footage of darko holding his head.

Someone please get footage of darko holding his head.

Yeah, and put the final score under the pic while your at it.

Someone please get footage of darko holding his head.

Yeah, and put the final score under the pic while your at it.

LOL yeah, because winning in the last 10 seconds on a circus shot against a team on a back to back on the road without their leading scorer is news. Get that shit out of here.

If this wasnt a preseason game, Ive never seen one.

We could have won this game but Flip chose to stick with the bench. Fine by me, it wasnt a must-win.

61-15, fine by me.

Max should be damn proud of himself tonight, and kudos to flip for giving hima chance.

As for Delfino.....I'm so mad I'm not going to say anything. He doesnt deserve any more pity.

Someone please get footage of darko holding his head.

Yeah, and put the final score under the pic while your at it.

LOL yeah, because winning in the last 10 seconds on a circus shot against a team on a back to back on the road without their leading scorer is news. Get that shit out of here.
Told he wasnt a piston fan. Darko cult leader. Lets put the the teams records under the final score too while we're at it. Yea i'm sure they were superior to us tonight. it really showed in us playing dale davis and jason maxiell down the stretch.

And man Tony Delk is money to miss a lay up 80 percent of the time on a drive. he just cant finish for shit. then he choked at the line. he's the one guy i'd rather see shoot jumpers based on his wackass drives..

Someone please get footage of darko holding his head.

Yeah, and put the final score under the pic while your at it.

LOL yeah, because winning in the last 10 seconds on a circus shot against a team on a back to back on the road without their leading scorer is news. Get that shit out of here.
Told he wasnt a piston fan. Darko cult leader. Lets put the the teams records under the final score too while we're at it. Yea i'm sure they were superior to us tonight. it really showed in us playing dale davis and jason maxiell down the stretch.

And man Tony Delk is money to miss a lay up 80 percent of the time on a drive. he just cant finish for shit. then he choked at the line. he's the one guy i'd rather see shoot jumpers based on his wackass drives..

Kilo won't be back until tomorrow, he's already got his Darko nudies out.

Did Billups really play 38 minutes? Or is the box score fucked up? Same with Tay and his 36 minutes.

Someone please get footage of darko holding his head.

Yeah, and put the final score under the pic while your at it.

LOL yeah, because winning in the last 10 seconds on a circus shot against a team on a back to back on the road without their leading scorer is news. Get that shit out of here.
Told he wasnt a piston fan. Darko cult leader. Lets put the the teams records under the final score too while we're at it. Yea i'm sure they were superior to us tonight. it really showed in us playing dale davis and jason maxiell down the stretch.

And man Tony Delk is money to miss a lay up 80 percent of the time on a drive. he just cant finish for shit. then he choked at the line. he's the one guy i'd rather see shoot jumpers based on his wackass drives..

Kilo won't be back until tomorrow, he's already got his Darko nudies out.

Yawn. Who the fuck are you anyways??

Someone please get footage of darko holding his head.

Yeah, and put the final score under the pic while your at it.

LOL yeah, because winning in the last 10 seconds on a circus shot against a team on a back to back on the road without their leading scorer is news. Get that shit out of here.
Told he wasnt a piston fan. Darko cult leader. Lets put the the teams records under the final score too while we're at it. Yea i'm sure they were superior to us tonight. it really showed in us playing dale davis and jason maxiell down the stretch.

And man Tony Delk is money to miss a lay up 80 percent of the time on a drive. he just cant finish for shit. then he choked at the line. he's the one guy i'd rather see shoot jumpers based on his wackass drives..

Kilo won't be back until tomorrow, he's already got his Darko nudies out.

Yawn. Who the fuck are you anyways??

Hit a nerve, fanboy? Keep yawning so you can fit Darko's sack in there, bitchass.

Did Billups really play 38 minutes? Or is the box score fucked up? Same with Tay and his 36 minutes.
he had to. lindsey/delk/ evans was atrocious out there. and flip wasnt gonna put delfino in for evans. [smilie=arrgh.jpg]

but we couldnt do much w/o billups in.

Keep Evans/Hunter/Delfino off the court. I'd die a happy man if they stay on the bench for the rest of the year.

Keep Evans/Hunter/Delfino off the court. I'd die a happy man if they stay on the bench for the rest of the year.
Hopefully you'll die with a hateful grudge then. Sorry i have to root for such.

Keep Evans/Hunter/Delfino off the court. I'd die a happy man if they stay on the bench for the rest of the year.

For me it's a game-by-game thing. Evans is definitely the superior offensive force of the 3(which at the moment isn't saying much). But his perimeter D is really subpar. Delfino on the other hand has a real inconsistent shot, but solid perimeter D. Hunter... well... the dudes a blackhole on offense. But his defense is phenomenal, and against certain players I'd definitely like to see him get some burn.

Lindsey and Ben cant be on the floor at the same time.

I'm OK with lindsey playing, but not alongside Ben Wallace.

as per usual, i'll stick with looking at the big picture.

pistons could have won if we wanted to, and are way better than the magic (ever will be?). darko played ok, but i'd take ben, sheed, and antonio over him any day (this year).

and hey, loss ment nothing to the pistons, and the win ment little to the magic.

but if the magic didnt trade a nine million dollar, 300 lb bag of crap for darko and arroyo, our scrubs would have beaten the magic.

but atleast we're going to get some crappy late 1st rounder next year. thats going to be nice.

looking back, tayshaun prince is probably playing in europe these days if the pistons had ANYTHING in front of him at sf. honestly, whats the only difference between tay and darko? looks to me its opportunity.

ill hold back tonight, but this game just pissed me off all over again. if orlando get any idea how to get the ball into the post, darko might avg 20 ppg with the magic next year. also, he gave the first interview i ever saw tonight (i think) with blaha and lamb. didnt seem like the asshole everyone portrays him to be.

Even with the loss, our magic number is down to 3.

We have 4 of our last 6 at home, and we only need to win 3 of them to clinch the NBA's best record.

Lindsey and Ben cant be on the floor at the same time.

I'm OK with lindsey playing, but not alongside Ben Wallace.

They can play together fine. They just have to run a full court trap defense.

as per usual, i'll stick with looking at the big picture.

pistons could have won if we wanted to, and are way better than the magic (ever will be?). darko played ok, but i'd take ben, sheed, and antonio over him any day (this year).

and hey, loss ment nothing to the pistons, and the win ment little to the magic.

but if the magic didnt trade a nine million dollar, 300 lb bag of crap for darko and arroyo, our scrubs would have beaten the magic.

but atleast we're going to get some crappy late 1st rounder next year. thats going to be nice.

looking back, tayshaun prince is probably playing in europe these days if the pistons had ANYTHING in front of him at sf. honestly, whats the only difference between tay and darko? looks to me its opportunity.

ill hold back tonight, but this game just pissed me off all over again. if orlando get any idea how to get the ball into the post, darko might avg 20 ppg with the magic next year. also, he gave the first interview i ever saw tonight (i think) with blaha and lamb. didnt seem like the asshole everyone portrays him to be. after seeing hang himself you showed some restraint. but you still are blaming the team for anything darko doesnt does no matter what team he is on i see. [smilie=artist.gif]

the difference between Tay and Darko is quite a bit. Tayshan stepped up when we threw him to the wolves(in the playoffs no less) and Darko didnt. Saying Tay would be in europe right now is silly. He'd might not have made starter w/o the chance we gave him. But neither would've Ben wallace. So i dont get your point there.

For me it's a game-by-game thing. Evans is definitely the superior offensive force of the 3(which at the moment isn't saying much). But his perimeter D is really subpar. Delfino on the other hand has a real inconsistent shot, but solid perimeter D. Hunter... well... the dudes a blackhole on offense. But his defense is phenomenal, and against certain players I'd definitely like to see him get some burn.

Carlos freaking Arroyo took Hunter off the dribble on a few ocassions, and has had trouble with a few points(Speedy, Paul, Wade, Arroyo) in the last week. No way is his defense phenomenal.

For me it's a game-by-game thing. Evans is definitely the superior offensive force of the 3(which at the moment isn't saying much). But his perimeter D is really subpar. Delfino on the other hand has a real inconsistent shot, but solid perimeter D. Hunter... well... the dudes a blackhole on offense. But his defense is phenomenal, and against certain players I'd definitely like to see him get some burn.

Carlos freaking Arroyo took Hunter off the dribble on a few ocassions, and has had trouble with a few points(Speedy, Paul, Wade, Arroyo) in the last week. No way is his defense phenomenal.

You gave a list of guards that can take almost anybody off the dribble. Who else we going to put on them, Delk?

Weird game. Bench in for crunch time, JMax getting a FG even and Dale with some burn.

Evans hustling his ass around and getting easy dunks (while getting burned defensively), while mediocre defense by Delfino and just plain shit on offense.

Only thing this Magic team has is legs and SA lost so no sweat.

Delfino and Evans both suck this year. That is the unfortunate truth. Delfino is good defensively, but erratic offensively. Mo Evans is awful defensively, and useless on offense if he isn't able to leak out on the break (which also leads to shit rebounding).

Neither are going to do anything in the playoffs. Delfino probably won't play a minute, and Evans will probably play, but hopefully we'll all be counting down the seconds untill Tayshaun can get back in. That said, with a full year of consistant 18-20mpg under his belt, I think Carlos can easily be our main backup next year at the 2/3 spots. He's got the defense and the talent, I just think it's a matter of getting out there consistantly and getting comfortable.

The good thing is, we've got Dice and Delk who are playing great right now to make up for it. Tayshaun will just have to play 45-ish minutes in the playoffs.

as for the rest of the game... I'd like to see some more Maxiell in these last few games. He looked good out there. Didn't get rattled and knocked down a nice jumper immediately, even though he hadn't played in forever.

I still don't get what happened here...Here is what Flip said on the postgame on why Wallace X2 was not in late in the game. Maybe they wanted to see how their teammates would respond. That is all I can think of. Unless all of a sudden they became dead tired. But even if they were, that would be out of their nature to just quit, there had to be another reason.


On Ben Wallace and Rasheed Wallace not playing in the fourth quarter:
“Both Rasheed and Ben said they couldn’t go. We let them sit. They just said they couldn’t go so we just them…whether tight or whatever. That was the word.”

Sure, it sucks to lose to a jick team like the Magic, but I'm not concerned. I actually like that we are starting to rest guys a little bit, but we do need to make sure we lock up homecourt throughout the playoffs. Once we've got that, then we can rest guys for the playoff run.

B-diddy, I don't know what you're smoking man? Comparing Tayshaun to Dorko? Come on now. Darko is a skinny, timid, POS and Tayshaun is an All-NBA defender and one hell of a finisher. IMO, we don't win the title in '04 without Tay. Remember Reggie Miller in game 2 of the Eastern Conference Finals? Where he coined the verb "Tayshauned". I love Tay as our starting SF, but I do wish it was Carmelo, still. But that's beating a dead horse.

[smilie=beat_deadho:

I still don't get what happened here...Here is what Flip said on the postgame on why Wallace X2 was not in late in the game. Maybe they wanted to see how their teammates would respond. That is all I can think of. Unless all of a sudden they became dead tired. But even if they were, that would be out of their nature to just quit, there had to be another reason.


On Ben Wallace and Rasheed Wallace not playing in the fourth quarter:
“Both Rasheed and Ben said they couldn’t go. We let them sit. They just said they couldn’t go so we just them…whether tight or whatever. That was the word.”

I was wondering the same thing, so I caught the replay and Flip looked really bothered while he was saying that quote.

Anyway, apparently Sheed said he had back spasms and Ben said he was fine. Word on the MLive forums says that Orlando announcers pointed out that Ben yelled at Flip as well (can't exactly trust that shit though).


Posted on Fri, Apr. 07, 2006

Pistons - without Hamilton - lose in the Magic Kingdom

BY KRISTA LATHAMDetroit Free Press

ORLANDO, Fla. - Here in the Magic Kingdom, it seems dreams really do come true.

Carlos Arroyo is royalty. Darko Milicic schools Rasheed Wallace. Dale Davis and Tony Delk stay on the floor for the final play. The often forgotten - that'd be Carlos Delfino - start.

And the so-far-back-they're-pretty-much out-of-the-playoffs Orlando Magic, they get to win.

On Latino night at TD Waterhouse Centre, the Magic thrilled their sellout, Puerto Rican flag-waving crowd by topping the Pistons, 89-87.

Magic guard Jameer Nelson hit back-to-back shots - a 20-footer and a fade-away jumper - to give Orlando a two-point lead with 6.5 seconds to play.

But with three seconds left, Pistons guard Delk had his chance to tie it. Delk, who scored 18 points off the bench, missed a free throw with three seconds left. That left him with one option. Intentional miss. Not the way he wanted to help his team win.

"I think it had to do with me playing a lot of minutes," Delk said. "Just getting an opportunity, though, I have to make tough shots. Hopefully that will come around again."

But forward Antonio McDyess, who scored eight points, caught the rebound from the second miss and went up for his shot.

Pistons forward Rasheed Wallace, who sat on the bench for the final minutes with Ben Wallace, was sure he'd see an overtime.

"Oh yeah, for sure," said Rasheed Wallace, who said had some late-game back spasms.

But somehow, his trusty baseline jumper missed.

"He came up, missed the shot," Wallace said. "That's cool though. We had a chance to win it right there, but, hey, came up short."

Carlos Delfino started in place of Richard Hamilton, who left the team to attend a funeral. Chauncey Billups led Detroit with 25 points, and Tayshaun Prince had 15.

Pistons coach Flip Saunders said that both Wallaces told him they couldn't go in the final minutes.

After the game, Ben Wallace said he's not injured. Rasheed admitted he felt some back spasms, but said he'd be good and ready to see the Indiana Pacers on Sunday.

Maybe Saunders just wanted to see what some of his lesser-used commodities can do in late-game situations. Along with Delk and Davis, rookie Jason Maxiell, forward Maurice Evans, and Delfino all got some prime time on the floor in the second half.

"Those guys on the floor," Saunders said, "they spilled their guts."

They needed to after the mess of the first half. The Pistons trailed 54-39 at halftime. The Magic, led by Hedo Turkoglu's 28 points, shot 59 percent in the first half and out-rebounded Detroit by six.

The Pistons came back to take the lead in the second half with typical rugged defense. The Magic managed just 13 points in the third quarter, a quarter that's now Detroit's favorite to dominate.

But after exerting all that energy, they had little left for the final minutes.

"We dug a hole and had to fight to try and get back in the game," Ben Wallace said. "And when you play like that sometimes it just bites you in the end_when you play garbage basketball for the first 24 minutes."

The official theme might have been Latin night, but it was reunion night for Detroit. Former Piston Milicic got his first crack at the team that drafted him second overall and them couldn't find room to use him for two and a half seasons. He finished with eight points.

The Pistons also reunited with Arroyo, who was traded in the package with Milicic in February. In Florida, amid a large Latin population, Arroyo's popularity has taken off. Each time he touched the ball, the crowd swooned. Arroyo finished with 10 points and two assists.

None of that surprised Wallace much either.

"Man, there were Puerto Rican flags waving in Utah," Wallace said, speaking of Arroyo's former team. "That's when it really hit me, that, whoa, this guy has a big following. He's the only Puerto Rican player in the NBA, so of course he's repping it strong."

© 2006 KRT Wire and wire service sources. All Rights Reserved.http://www.mercurynews.com

I love Tay as our starting SF, but I do wish it was Carmelo, still. But that's beating a dead horse.

[smilie=beat_deadho:
so we could have no titles? [smilie=arrgh.jpg]

Ummm i dont wanna deal with what denver has to in carmello demanding a max contract pretty soon.

Someone please get footage of darko holding his head.

Yeah, and put the final score under the pic while your at it.

LOL yeah, because winning in the last 10 seconds on a circus shot against a team on a back to back on the road without their leading scorer, when your team has nothing to play for, is riding out the string, Rasheed Wallace has a back injury, and Ben Wallace refuses to finish the 4th quarter, so the opponent wins the game with Dale Davis and Jason Maxiell guarding them is news. Get that shit out of here, .

Fixed.

[smilie=angel.gif]

post game stuff up

Jesus, people. First off, Darko's gone, and those who bitch about it need to get over it already.

Second, it was one game. Over the course of the season, there are losses like this. This was just weird because of who was in... And I don't really mind resting the starters a bit, as long as we can stay in front of SA...

i think the tay/darko comparison is apt.

in tay's first year, he got the darko treatment up until we had no choice but to play him against orlando. if our sf's infront of him, curry and a broken down williamson, were even decent, we probably dont play tay in those playoffs. if tay never breaks out in those playoffs, maybe never does. he wasnt even practicing with the team (supposedly). thats the thing about young talent, you have to give them an opportunity to play sometimes.

and am i beating a dead horse? i dont know, seeing how most people are fine with this trade, i think the debate can go on. a trade that pretty much amounts to us trading the #1 pick in this years draft for a future pick that will probalby in the 20's.

(most experts say darko would go #1 still, not just rosenberg)

Darko didn't want to be here, and it showed in his play, ans how he suddenly has become a better player in orlando.

I'm ok with the deal, because he had to go, and it gives Joe some more clout among free agents, further re-enforcing the belief that Joe is fair to his players, and wont hold on to them out of spite.

"We built a hole, had to fight to try to get back in the game, and when you play like that, it just bites you in the end," Ben Wallace said. "That's what happened. We played garbage basketball pretty much for 24 minutes, just wasted the first half and came out in the second half trying to fight and claw to get back in the game. Once we got back in the game, they made plays."

Ben Wallace didn't play the last 7:57 of the game, apparently because he was unhappy about being removed at that point and didn't want to go back in. Rasheed was replaced with 3:41 remaining in the third quarter and didn't return.

Coach Flip Saunders said his frontcourt duo wasn't feeling well physically.

"Both Sheed and Ben said they couldn't go," Saunders said. "Rather than let them chance it, we let them sit."

Ben Wallace sat on the bench while the rest of the team huddled up for the final timeout after Delk's first missed free throw. Afterward, he said there was nothing wrong with him.

"No, I'm good," Ben said.

Rasheed said his back "tightened up a little bit" but that he is good to go on Sunday, when the Pistons play the Indiana Pacers.

It seemed more like Saunders trying to explore different combinations and give some regulars rest on the second end of a back-to-back.
http://www.theoaklandpress.com/stories/040806/spo_2006040807.shtml

WTF?

That article left me confused. [smilie=arrgh.jpg]

Wow. I might as well say it. Theres an obvious problem with Flip and Ben. Sheed gets to do what he want and Ben doesnt like Flip's coaching it seems. I think that stretch where we were losing and playing bad defense with Flip not really caring about the defense, had a negative effect on their relationship.

To anyone who says this is nothing. Ben never pulled that on LB or Carlisle. In fact LB confronted Ben to work shit out when he was fustrated with Brown. I still say Ben is coaching this team's defense. And Flip is just trynna damage control by rolling with it.

JMHO...It could very well be nothing.

.....as opposed to Ben being pissed at Carlisle for not using him more offensively, or Ben being pissed at Larry Brown for not giving him more rest?

Now he's pissed at Flip for giving him TOO much rest?

Sorry,but if you take off the flip-hating goggles for a second you'd see Ben gets pissed at his coach at some point every season, regardless of who the coach is.

Yeah yeah, Ben's the heart and soul of the team, but he's also nearly impossible to keep happy. He wants more touches but he's the worst FT shooter in the planet.

He wants to rest more, and then take him out and he wants to play more.

Ben got over it with the other coaches, he'll get over it now too.

Oh yeah, and the notion that this team NEVER slacked off on defense under Rick or Larry Brown during the season is utterly stupid.

.....as opposed to Ben being pissed at Carlisle for not using him more offensively, or Ben being pissed at Larry Brown for not giving him more rest?

Now he's pissed at Flip for giving him TOO much rest?

Sorry,but if you take off the flip-hating goggles for a second you'd see Ben gets pissed at his coach at some point every season, regardless of who the coach is.

Yeah yeah, Ben's the heart and soul of the team, but he's also nearly impossible to keep happy.

Ben got over it with the other coaches, he'll get over it now too.

Regardless of whether or not that is true, I don't ever remember him refusing to go back into a game or not being the team huddle. That is a new development, one that could potentially hurt the team chemistry.

.....as opposed to Ben being pissed at Carlisle for not using him more offensively, or Ben being pissed at Larry Brown for not giving him more rest?

Now he's pissed at Flip for giving him TOO much rest?

Sorry,but if you take off the flip-hating goggles for a second you'd see Ben gets pissed at his coach at some point every season, regardless of who the coach is.

Yeah yeah, Ben's the heart and soul of the team, but he's also nearly impossible to keep happy. He wants more touches but he's the worst FT shooter in the planet.

He wants to rest more, and then take him out and he wants to play more.

Ben got over it with the other coaches, he'll get over it now too.

Oh yeah, and the notion that this team NEVER slacked off on defense under Rick or Larry Brown during the season is utterly stupid.
Blah blash blah. I just stated a theory. Dont piss your pants for another argument. You are total damage control for Flip. But you're the most negative fuck in here when the pistons dont do what YOU want.


Oh yeah, and the notion that this team NEVER slacked off on defense under Rick or Larry Brown during the season is utterly stupid.
Yea it is. But since it isnt mines, maybe you should rub Flips cum out your eyes and pay better attention. What is utterly stupid, is to think that Flip had just as much emphasis on defense as the previous two coaches. Thats retarded. And theres where my point was. Somehow you were too slow to pick it up. Or too busy trying to figure out your damage control.

No offense. But if you're gonna go around speaking on whats stupid professor jumpshot. Try not to do your overexaggerrated assuming like you do to emphasize your point. Because in a fucked up irony it makes you look asinine and dumb as shit. And you do it all the time.


Yeah yeah, Ben's the heart and soul of the team, but he's also nearly impossible to keep happy. He wants more touches but he's the worst FT shooter in the planet.

He wants to rest more, and then take him out and he wants to play more.
This is funny. You nonchalant his value and label him as a primadonna(impossible to keep happy?). The way you I wonder if you would even start him? You don't seem to think much of anything he does. Your perogative. Thank goodness you'll never coach a team i follow. [smilie=applause.gi: That is a blessing.

Its hard to keep Ben happy. Yet he knew more about what this team needed to fix than the coach. Now the coach has done a 180 and stfu about offense. Electing to emphasize defense all of the sudden. Now you are wearing a flip mask, goggles, and headset kit if you are trying to front like he was emphasizing defense before ben's outburst about the defense falling off..

.....as opposed to Ben being pissed at Carlisle for not using him more offensively, or Ben being pissed at Larry Brown for not giving him more rest?

Now he's pissed at Flip for giving him TOO much rest?

Sorry,but if you take off the flip-hating goggles for a second you'd see Ben gets pissed at his coach at some point every season, regardless of who the coach is.

Yeah yeah, Ben's the heart and soul of the team, but he's also nearly impossible to keep happy.

Ben got over it with the other coaches, he'll get over it now too.

Regardless of whether or not that is true, I don't ever remember him refusing to go back into a game or not being the team huddle. That is a new development, one that could potentially hurt the team chemistry.
i dont think it hurts the chemistry. just makes Flip irrelevent to an extent. This team has been telling him wehat defense to play for the most part. In fact they look uninterested as fuck running his zones. Thus its typically man to man and man zone for most of the games. It also reflects Flip not having the coaching skillz to run this teams defense as he sees fit(all through out the season he's been trynna push the zone on them). We'll never be the team he wants defensively. but its trade off because we run his offense the way he wants in most cases.

What is utterly stupid, is to think that Flip had just as much emphasis on defense as the previous two coaches.

....of course implying that he doesnt emphasize defense AT ALL is equally stupid, but oh well, that hasn't stopped you...

Flip throws in a little more offense with his defense. God forbid we have an offense that DOESNT SUCK in the playoffs for once.

And yes I realize we win with defense. But we can also add offense without sacrificing it. They arent mutually exclusive, like you seem to think they are.


Try not to do your overexaggerrated assuming like you do to emphasize your point

...because you don't do that?


This is funny. You nonchalant his value and label him as a primadonna(impossible to keep happy?

primadonna? All I said that no coach has ever been able to keep Ben happy, and this is no different. And I'm right. And I never said he wasnt valuable to this team, you did.


Its hard to keep Ben happy. Yet he knew more about what this team needed to fix than the coach.

...you're the one that keeps bringing that up, albeit with nothing to back it up other than a quote, like flip was completely oblivious to our defensive issues.


Now the coach has done a 180 and stfu about offense. Electing to emphasize defense all of the sudden.

Wait, you mean right before the playoffs, we started to play better defense and with more intensity? REALLY? The same thing we've been doing for the last half-decade?

All of a sudden this is some miraculous revelation?


Now you are wearing a flip mask, goggles, and headset kit if you are trying to front like he was emphasizing defense before ben's outburst about the defense falling off..

Last month well before Ben's quote I was saying the people like you who were crying and complaining about the lack of defense were crying about nothing, because we'd start to lock down the last month of the season as we do EVERY FUCKING YEAR.

Of course, you don't recall that, mr. selective memory.


dont think it hurts the chemistry. just makes Flip irrelevent to an extent.

To an extent, every coach in the NBA is irrelevant.

Larry brown was made irrelevant when the players played above his childish antics last spring and made it to the finals despite him.

Carlisle was made irrelevant when he was forced to play Tayshaun Prince against Orlando.

Good call.

Word on the MLive forums says that Orlando announcers pointed out that Ben yelled at Flip as well (can't exactly trust that shit though).


No, the Magic announcer just said something like "He's still got Ben and Rasheed on the bench... And Ben doesn't look too happy about it". They didn't say anything about yelling.

Well Delfino's lackluster performance probably sealed his fate. I doubt he has Flip's confidence at all. Looks like Mo Evans is also being phased out a bit. It'll be interesting to see what happens with him next year. Like most young players, I think he just wants to play.
I still think he's on the darko track, and will end up "rejuvinated" on some crappy team in 2 or 3 years.

According to the Freep, Delk was going to start but he didn't want the starting job? Same deal with Dice. I guess there's something to be said for not messing up player rhythms (well some players), but its still weird to have players turn down starting spots when asked.

What is utterly stupid, is to think that Flip had just as much emphasis on defense as the previous two coaches.

....of course implying that he doesnt emphasize defense AT ALL is equally stupid, but oh well, that hasn't stopped you...

Flip throws in a little more offense with his defense. God forbid we have an offense that DOESNT SUCK in the playoffs for once.

And yes I realize we win with defense. But we can also add offense without sacrificing it. They arent mutually exclusive, like you seem to think they are.


Try not to do your overexaggerrated assuming like you do to emphasize your point

...because you don't do that?


This is funny. You nonchalant his value and label him as a primadonna(impossible to keep happy?

primadonna? All I said that no coach has ever been able to keep Ben happy, and this is no different. And I'm right. And I never said he wasnt valuable to this team, you did.


Its hard to keep Ben happy. Yet he knew more about what this team needed to fix than the coach.

...you're the one that keeps bringing that up, albeit with nothing to back it up other than a quote, like flip was completely oblivious to our defensive issues.


Now the coach has done a 180 and stfu about offense. Electing to emphasize defense all of the sudden.

Wait, you mean right before the playoffs, we started to play better defense and with more intensity? REALLY? The same thing we've been doing for the last half-decade?

All of a sudden this is some miraculous revelation?


Now you are wearing a flip mask, goggles, and headset kit if you are trying to front like he was emphasizing defense before ben's outburst about the defense falling off..

Last month well before Ben's quote I was saying the people like you who were crying and complaining about the lack of defense were crying about nothing, because we'd start to lock down the last month of the season as we do EVERY FUCKING YEAR.

Of course, you don't recall that, mr. selective memory.


dont think it hurts the chemistry. just makes Flip irrelevent to an extent.

To an extent, every coach in the NBA is irrelevant.

Larry brown was made irrelevant when the players played above his childish antics last spring and made it to the finals despite him.

Carlisle was made irrelevant when he was forced to play Tayshaun Prince against Orlando.

Good call.
man you just replied to shit i didnt say. I never said no defense. i said no emphasison defense. you are seriously slow. I said you overexaggerrate and what do you do. even more overexaggerrating assumptions.

your larry brown comparisom is reaching like all hell. When Larry told someone to get their ass in the game3. They did. Your carlisle comparisom is even worse. [smilie=arrgh.jpg] [smilie=applause.gi: Irrelevent? Once again no one ever refused to go in the game. they ran all his sets on defense and offense. stuck to his philosophy on both ends. We arent gonna play Flip's zone happy garbage as much as he wants. As well we shouldnt.


Last month well before Ben's quote I was saying the people like you who were crying and complaining about the lack of defense were crying about nothing, because we'd start to lock down the last month of the season as we do EVERY FUCKING YEAR.

Of course, you don't recall that, mr. selective memory.
I recall better than your senile ass*lol*. People like me? you dont know what i'm like. its pretty obvious in your pompous assumptions. Every fucking year? no we never played a stretch of defense that badly ever in our past 3 years. that was a pretty lengthy span. And Ben Wallace NEVER had to tell LB to emphasize on the defense. thats a fucking shame that he had to tell the coach what to do. You'd be a prophet illuminati if we let you tell it Kstat. Seriously, how you equate your "well we'll play lockdown defense because ummm just because we will like every other year" damage control slogan to knowing Ben would tell to stfu and get the defense going, is pretty reachy. you say overpositive shit about everything that foils your perfect jumpshot world.



Wait, you mean right before the playoffs, we started to play better defense and with more intensity? REALLY? The same thing we've been doing for the last half-decade?

All of a sudden this is some miraculous revelation?
No immediately after Ben told the coach to. [smilie=antlers.gif]


Try not to do your overexaggerrated assuming like you do to emphasize your point


...because you don't do that?[/qoute]
No. When did i say something as overmoard as what you equate. Its known fact that you pull that shit everytime someone says something you dont like. You do it all the time in the chatroom. Rather than speak up for yourself you play the "i'll exaggerrate what you said to a ridiculous extreme in hopes of proving my point."card. And you've admitted to playing the card. Your excuse that other people somehow force you to do it via them doing it as far as YOU'RE concerned , is childish and lame.

[quote]
....of course implying that he doesnt emphasize defense AT ALL is equally stupid, but oh well, that hasn't stopped you...

Flip throws in a little more offense with his defense. God forbid we have an offense that DOESNT SUCK in the playoffs for once.

And yes I realize we win with defense. But we can also add offense without sacrificing it. They arent mutually exclusive, like you seem to think they are.
see this is where your wild assumptions get you in ass backwards trouble. No one ever said that we had to sacrifice our offense to play defense or vice versa. We werent sacrificing the defense. just not emphasizing it. No one downs the offense. But no one here gives a shit about the offense if we dont play defense. And we werent before Ben stepped up and said something about it. If Flip didnt compromise defensive emphasis no one would say shit about him. i dont care what offensive garbage he runs, if we are rebounding and playing defense. You seem to think our hopes rest on offense and that the defense is ok to take for granted. You also seem to think that i'm as *one side or the other* thinking as you. neither is true.

Its amazingly how you trip over your shoelaces rushing in to defend Flip when i say that Ben and his relationship has fallen off. I never said it would cost a title or any of this imaginary bullshit you pushed in here. Just spoke on it probally being a beef that started when Ben had to tell him to pay attention to the defensive troubles. Its no bash on Flip. Maybe you hope that i'm a Flip hater to make you feel better about being a sworn Ben Wallace hater. But i'm not a Flip nutlicker like yourself either. I'm indifferent to the guy. Something you are by far not. And because you're not, anyone who doesnt lick his balls is a hater in your mind. My concerns are the team. I have no "i wanna see jumpshooting because i think that works" or "offense because the defense will fix itself" agendas. My agenda is to see this team play the way it needs to win a championship. Not make kstat happy and win it for his own personal homo-erotic double whammy..

Some of our main weaknesses(not many and most cases not completely major) lie within our coaching staff. I know you dont like hearing that but its true. Are they weak enough keep us from winning. I dont think so yet. But we'll see. But Flip is very capable of getting outcoached. But he may have enough talent behind him to keep it from being a major factor. Part of it is his own fault. His assistant arent that good. Tag alongs for the most part. I'm just satisfied that atleast Ben Wallace wont accept a lack of defense costing them the title. Do the "heart and soul yea whatever blah blah" nonchalant talk if you want. but homeboy is by far more valuable than Flip and probally a more respected guy on this team. Thats no knock on Flip. Just a reminder of Ben's importance in us getting back to piston defense.

...you're the one that keeps bringing that up, albeit with nothing to back it up other than a quote, like flip was completely oblivious to our defensive issues.
http://wtfdetroit.com/viewtopic.php?t=1652

wow that was a pretty epic owning there, Rorschach.

wow that was a pretty epic owning there, Rorschach.
Not really. Its actually annoying to have to correct this guy on every ridiculous assumption he makes up about what someone said to him. Maybe thats his plan. who knows. I do know NoQuarter got bored with it his damn self.. But its no personal knock on kstat though. when he isnt in "damage control flip for president jumpshots were created by God" mode, he's an ok poster.