So what's the deal with Flip Saunders and Delfino?

On a second night of a B2B, Delfino only plays a 1:21 while Tay plays 37 minutes. WTF is up with that?

Delfino is dating his oldest daughter... [smilie=fingernono.:

Flip will be asked and give the same old answer how he wants to play him more and will starting next game...

Evans was awful tonight.

One reason Delfino might not be playing is that Charlotte plays small ball in Delfino isn't fast enough to stay with their guards.

I'm not saying that's a good reason, he needs to play, but I'm just trying to get into Flip's head.

Evans was awful tonight.

One reason Delfino might not be playing is that Charlotte plays small ball in Delfino isn't fast enough to stay with their guards.

I'm not saying that's a good reason, he needs to play, but I'm just trying to get into Flip's head.

It's not just this game though.

His minutes have been steadily going down after the AS break. And it's not like Evans has been outplaying him either.

i thought Evans was a fantastic pick up in teh off-season....but seeing Flip's loyalty to Evans, i'm almost wishing we didn't have him, just so Delfino would get the lionshare of backup minutes at the 2/3 spot.

Evans is good for some hustle rebounds, put backs, and the occasional three....but that's it. Delfino has so much more talent, it's silly.

Cut Evans and add Hoiberg. Hoiberg can't possibly play small forward, so it would force Flips hand. Hoiberg would be limited bacause you cannot play him over Hamilton, and Delfino would get TP's back-up minutes, at least getting 10 minutes a game sorta deal...

At least LB told us why he wouldn't play players. With Flip it's a mystery. I wish somebody in the media had the balls to ask him what the hell he is thinking on this one. But they don't. The Pistons media sucks. Tom Wilson and crew have made them so soft.

I said this same shit in chat. Delfino's talents are being ignored in favor of evans, who did nothin' that delfino couldn't do with his 18 minutes of play.

Flip hates defenders. Just is what it is.


But in my personal opinion. The solid defense and average offense we get from delfino and hunter outweighs the solid scoring and average at best defense by delk. But its not a vs, dont get me wrong on that. we could have all 3 out there. Why dont put it all together instead of against each other?

I do think the odd man out is easily evans. But what goes on with that i just dont know. Flip feels a need to give him time on the humble. He feels a lil' less inclined to do that for Delfino. Pretty unfortunate. But as a whole team we need to play better. starting to play down to the level of the competition. and the rotations are more screwy than bugs bunny in drag.

Based on what we've seen from Delk, he should be getting playing time.

The problem is that he is taking minutes from Delfino when he should be taking PT from Evans. Delfino shoul be the primary backup SG/SF but due to Flip's love affair with Evans, he is usually relegated to the bench when he should be out on the court.

Based on what we've seen from Delk, he should be getting playing time.

The problem is that he is taking minutes from Delfino when he should be taking PT from Evans. Delfino shoul be the primary backup SG/SF but due to Flip's love affair with Evans, he is usually relegated to the bench.
He's not taking minutes from delfino. That makes it seem like he's the key to delfino losing minutes. the key isnt even evans. Its Flip. he's rotating pretty retarded at this point.

O I wish we had brought in Nate McMillan...

He's not taking minutes from delfino. That makes it seem like he's the key to delfino losing minutes. the key isnt even evans. Its Flip. he's rotating pretty retarded at this point.

Since he has been here, Delk has been taking Delfino's (limited) minutes.


O I wish we had brought in Nate McMillan...

He was my first choice during the offseason. I thought his no-nonsense approach along with his emphasis on defense would fit in well with our team.

Dont give me that defense crap. All you guys were on my case about having worries about Flips zone love and lack of emphasis on defense. Now i get this we shoulda got Mcmillan shit. Funny.


Dude we got Flip for the long haul at the moment. just gotta swallow pride in defense and hope the players outplay his coaching defencies and maximize on his coaching strengths. it sucks to see him fuck up these things like that rotation issue. But we are still the best team in the east and probally the league. nd we still have the best starting five in the ga,e with more rest than last year.

As soon as Evans suffers a season ending injury we are set. [smilie=2thumbsup.g:

O I wish we had brought in Nate McMillan...

He was my first choice during the offseason. I thought his no-nonsense approach along with his emphasis on defense would fit in well with our team.

Mine too. Basically he is a cross between LB and Flip Saunders. Tough defense and allows the chuckers to chuck, but would keep the reigns on - Sheed especially.

Flip is the exact opposite of LB, I don't understand why Dumars would make such a drastic change in a head coach.

Gutz, I do remember you harping on Flip's defensive deficiencies(your main beef was his penchant to play zone - which we actually don't to too much of in reality). However don't try to paint the picture that everybody was completely enamored with Flip Saunders. Once we had him, I tried to support his hiring(hpoing I was right??), however if we had the ability to search the old sites, I was on record hoping for Nate McMillan and being disappointed when he signed on in Portland.

Flip is the exact opposite of LB, I don't understand why Dumars would make such a drastic change in a head coach.
Because he felt that the team became mature enough to make it w/o a discipline heavy coach. The coaching staff on Flip's squad have called us too lazy to be the 96 bulls. Yet they arent gonna ride any players about it.

Dont give me that defense crap. All you guys were on my case about having worries about Flips zone love and lack of emphasis on defense. Now i get this we shoulda got Mcmillan shit. Funny.


Dude we got Flip for the long haul at the moment. just gotta swallow pride in defense and hope the players outplay his coaching defencies and maximize on his coaching strengths. it sucks to see him fuck up these things like that rotation issue. But we are still the best team in the east and probally the league. nd we still have the best starting five in the ga,e with more rest than last year.

As soon as Evans suffers a season ending injury we are set. [smilie=2thumbsup.g:

Where the fuck did you get the idea that everyone was in favor of hiring Flip?

My only true beef with Flip at this point is his rotation.

from all the people who didnt chime in when i took on a group of posters about this and got labeled as a Flip hater for about 4 months. It was like saying the iraqi war was a dangerous move at the 2004 rebublican convention.

My only true beef with Flip at this point is his rotation.
Thats fair. I think theres a couple more problems though. He seems primed to get outcoached by the likes of george karl even. thats a lil unfortunate. We may be so good that it doesnt matter. But its still possible.

My only true beef with Flip at this point is his rotation.
Thats fair. I think theres a couple more problems though. He seems primed to get outcoached by the likes of george karl even. thats a lil unfortunate. We may be so good that it doesnt matter. But its still possible.

That's why I said "true beef." There were a couple occasions where I say he should have done this different or that different. But the man is an offensive genious and our offensive numbers have gone up while the defensive numbers have stayed about the same. I'd much rather have him than Larry Brown.

My only true beef with Flip at this point is his rotation.
Thats fair. I think theres a couple more problems though. He seems primed to get outcoached by the likes of george karl even. thats a lil unfortunate. We may be so good that it doesnt matter. But its still possible.

That's why I said "true beef." There were a couple occasions where I say he should have done this different or that different. But the man is an offensive genious and our offensive numbers have gone up while the defensive numbers have stayed about the same. I'd much rather have him than Larry Brown.
i wouldnt go that far. Offensive genius is bs too me. smoke and mirros. And our defense is not as good as last year, numbers or not. Its especially worse than the year before last.

We have allowed scoring spurts that the other pistons squads would have never allowed. In fact they would've took exception to the wizard bashing and unleashed it on the bobcats. I didnt get that feel tonight. But nevertheless I think we're doing good. Just dont think its a matter of Flip being a genius at anything.

My only beef with Flip is the rotation and that Sheed is waaaaaaaaaay too liberated(and to a certain extent Chauncey). I want to see A LOT more Delfino and Davis. Davis gives us stellar rebounding and D, plus hustle. Delfino does a lot of things Evans can't do: dribble, attack the basket, get to the free throw line, play consistent defense, pass, have a bad hair cut. More of my Latin lover and less of the Texan. :(

To get back on topic:

Why does Flip have Delfino on such a short leash?

Evans can play like absolute crap and still get meaningful minutes (like today). But no matter how well Delfino plays, he never gets more minutes than Evans. I don't get that at all.

To get back on topic:

Why does Flip have Delfino on such a short leash?

Evans can play like absolute crap and still get meaningful minutes (like today). But no matter how well Delfino plays, he never gets more minutes than Evans. I don't get that at all.
Exactly.

And Delfino isn't the type of player you put on a leash. You just let him play. He can't play with restraints.

from all the people who didnt chime in when i took on a group of posters about this and got labeled as a Flip hater for about 4 months. It was like saying the iraqi war was a dangerous move at the 2004 rebublican convention.

This is so fucking true.

I, GD and numerous others slammed Gutz in every thread (it seems) because he was always going on about Flip being a bad choice.

NO ONE came to his aid.

Now maybe some felt the same as Gutz or had similar opinions, but no one was voicing them enough to bring about an intelligent debate on the subject.

It was GD, me and some others vs Gutz. He fought as long as he could but couldn't handle us all. So he stopped.

I believe in Flip but I agree there are things that are fucked too. But the reason he was signed is because he's the opposite of LB in every fucking way.

He's all about the team, offensive freedom, quite, LOYAL, etc etc

Nate McMillan was a lot more like LB as far as defensive shit, discipline and all that. Joe didn't want the players to go through more seasons of slow down, grind it out ball.

That shit wears on players after a few years. The majority of our guys played that style for 4 years. Of course they're gonna get fucking tired of the banging and all out D after that long.

I don't think it's fair to say that guys get head-to-head out-coached in the regular season where it's mostly a matter of defining your brand of basketball and trying to execute it with some consistency. It isn't until the playoffs that coaches really start adjusting to individual opponents in a big way.

Dont give me that defense crap. All you guys were on my case about having worries about Flips zone love and lack of emphasis on defense. Now i get this we shoulda got Mcmillan shit. Funny.


Dude we got Flip for the long haul at the moment. just gotta swallow pride in defense and hope the players outplay his coaching defencies and maximize on his coaching strengths. it sucks to see him fuck up these things like that rotation issue. But we are still the best team in the east and probally the league. nd we still have the best starting five in the ga,e with more rest than last year.

As soon as Evans suffers a season ending injury we are set. [smilie=2thumbsup.g:

Where the fuck did you get the idea that everyone was in favor of hiring Flip?

I sure as hell didnt like it at all.

I'm not going to site here and complain about the hire. We are the best team in the league, and that's all there is to it. I do critisize his move of playing Evans over Delfino, but other than that I can't really complain about anything. I'd really like to see Delfino more, but it's hard to really get on him the way our team is winning. I think we'd be better with Delfino out there though.

Oh God, come on with the Delfino man-love fellas. Everyone knows if delfino was truly better then Evans, he'd be playing over him. He doesn't play like he wants the ball. You're all just a bunch of Delfino groupies

[smilie=army.gif]

I vote we kidnap Flipster and force him to read all of this superior intellegence...
Why, he doesn't have nearly the experience in the areas of player development... league knowledge... matchups...practice habits etc...
I mean look at the status of some of these cats here!
Flip, bow to the forum gods damnit.... repent your bench sins...seek help and you shall receive.
Then I woke up {:^)

To get back on topic:

Why does Flip have Delfino on such a short leash?

Evans can play like absolute crap and still get meaningful minutes (like today). But no matter how well Delfino plays, he never gets more minutes than Evans. I don't get that at all.

^Bump.

Evans is completely useless out there. He is a scrub that is a borderline NBA player.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/5416108

"We wanted to try to start establishing our bench more, so basically we're playing three guys and giving those guys a little bit more minutes," Detroit coach Flip Saunders said.

The article only mentioned Evans, Delk and Dyess, so I am assuming thats who Flip is talking about.

you guys should stop before the jumpshot groupie calls you all delfino groupies. [smilie=arrgh.jpg]

seriously though evans is playing pretty bad. i think everyone can agree on that. some of his worst ballin yet. its a lil odd indeed to see him in there. and based on Flip's interview he's looking for a 9 man rotation when hunter gets back. making delfino odd man out for evans. i think this flaws us, but whatcha gonna do? just a shitty raw deal.

maybe i should start disliking delfino and he will play more. Cause as it stands right now all of my favorite players from the pistons fail to get just playing time....

Rundown....

Corliss....shoulda started over curry that year he won sixth man of the year..

John Barry....never got enough run as i saw it...always played hard..but usually got benched after a few minuts of play

Memo...we know what happened there (and i aint complain about gettin sheed) but it pisses me off that all my fav players go though this.

Now delfino...playing behind a clunky ass shot mo evans. Who brings hustle but no basketball abilities.


Wow...okay im done...i just needed to vent after just realizing all this.

I realize that Evans isn't playing too well but what exactly do all of you see in him that I don't.

I agree that he has potential but whenever hes in the game, he really doesn't do much.

Frankly, I like Delk better than either of the bums.

You guys aren't going to like this.

Don't kill the messenger.


On the rotation

Saunders used just three players off the bench Wednesday -- McDyess, Tony Delk (11 points) and Maurice Evans .

"We are trying to establish our bench more," he said. "We went with just three guys and giving them more minutes, and what happens is it gives them a chance to get into a comfort zone."

Saunders said he might try to incorporate one more player into the rotation -- presumably Lindsey Hunter , who is still not completely ready to play after bouts with the flu and food poisoning.

"We may add one more and go with a nine-man rotation," he said. "We want to start playing our bench in the 70-80 minute range. That way we keep our starters fresh down the stretch."

The trio Wednesday totaled 72 minutes.

There is still a chance, given different matchups, that Carlos Delfino would play in place of Evans.

What ever would we have done without Mo's 1-3 shooting last night.

What ever would we have done without Mo's 1-3 shooting last night.

Why are you killing the messenger?

Why do you hate me so much?

What have I ever done to you, Fool?

After just writing an apology in the other thread, this made me
http://web.syr.edu/~cjbryzgo/monkey%20smile.jpg

a bench of Delk, Delfino, Dice and Davis would be rock solid.

plus, imagine the nickname possilibities....

D^4

the 4D's

D12..........divided by 3


[smilie=artist.gif]

I realize that Evans isn't playing too well but what exactly do all of you see in him that I don't.

I agree that he has potential but whenever hes in the game, he really doesn't do much.

Frankly, I like Delk better than either of the bums.

It's that Evans hasn't played well and Delfino has. Evans only gets an occasional dunk or putback while missing his outside shots. He was supposed to be a great defender but hasn't looked very good at all. When Delfino played he looked much better. He was very active on the boards, shot well, and was a pretty darn good defender. He shows more energy on the court and should be playing in front of Evans, plain and simple. Delk has been great so far but he usually plays the 1 or 2 while Delfino plays the 2 or 3 spots.

What I think it comes down to is that Carlos Delfino is a 2-guard and likes to play at the top, whereas Evans is at least comfortable at the three, playing on the wing.

Flip said at the beginning of the season that he wanted to play eight guys "starter" minutes rather than having a 10 man rotation where the back-ups each get 12 minutes sorta deal. As a result Evans gets the back-up sg minutes as well, actually sharing them with Delk.

I realize that Evans isn't playing too well but what exactly do all of you see in him that I don't.

I agree that he has potential but whenever hes in the game, he really doesn't do much.

Frankly, I like Delk better than either of the bums.

It's that Evans hasn't played well and Delfino has. Evans only gets an occasional dunk or putback while missing his outside shots. He was supposed to be a great defender but hasn't looked very good at all. When Delfino played he looked much better. He was very active on the boards, shot well, and was a pretty darn good defender. He shows more energy on the court and should be playing in front of Evans, plain and simple. Delk has been great so far but he usually plays the 1 or 2 while Delfino plays the 2 or 3 spots.

I agree that Delfino has the potential to be a better player than Evans but by watching the 2 this year, I think its a wash. Neither has done much and I just wonder why everyone is so high on Delfino. Offensively he has done nothing and defensively, I think he was solid against Pierce but thats about it. I'd rather have Delfino play just because his ceiling is higher but I'm not going to crucify Flip or lose any sleep over it like many here seem too.

Offensively he has done nothing and defensively, I think he was solid against Pierce but thats about it. I'd rather have Delfino play just because his ceiling is higher but I'm not going to crucify Flip or lose any sleep over it like many here seem too.
wow what games were you watching??? wade, kobe, VC(who he almost comnpletely shut down to change the tide in that game), and pierce were all getting played very well by him. and damn near all of them had their field days on mo evans. at the palace kobe scored atleast half his points on the short time evans was on him. can't believe you're trying to write off Delfino's defensive one on one efforts. [smilie=anxious.gif]

You can already write it down in ink.

Carlos Delfino will soon be yet another former Piston who goes to great things after leaving Detroit and being given major minutes.

You can already write it down in ink.

Carlos Delfino will soon be yet another former Piston who goes to great things after leaving Detroit and being given major minutes.
i hope thats not true, because it would mean we kept evans. [smilie=arrgh.jpg]

You can already write it down in ink.

Carlos Delfino will soon be yet another former Piston who goes to great things after leaving Detroit and being given major minutes.

yup. i predicted this a few weeks back, players wanna play at least to their skill level. its bullshit

A real test of whether Flip even sees anything or not in Delfino will come in a Miami series. Really, Delfino and Hunter should get the lion's share of minutes defending Wade.

How much of a roll do the starting 5 play in all this? Anybody think that the starters should do more to work better with the bench then they do?

I'm not looking for place blame. I'm just looking for a new angle to an old story.

I mean, Dumars is a pretty good evaluator of talent. We've had multiple coaches in here trying to figure out how to work in the bench. More than one of the guys who don't work out here have gone on to perform significantly better (or at least more consistently) other places.

it's just odd to me that we can watch the game and just about all come to the consensus that Delfino is better than Evans.

Flip's got all the assistants and game footage, but still plays Evans.

of course, i'm not arrogant enough to say that i (we) know more than an NBA head coach.....but it seems so obvious.

maybe Delfino made fun of Flip's ticks in Spanish....

http://www.hoopsvibe.com/IMG/-arton23120.jpg

Flip's got all the assistants and game footage, but still plays Evans.
honestly i doubt his coaches watch much film. i dont think much of our assistants myself. i wish we coulda kept LB's assistants and dropped gar heard. [smilie=angel.gif]

honestly i doubt his coaches watch much film. i dont think much of our assistants myself.

i try not to believe that (even though the cynic in my agrees with you). if i got paid a good salary to be an assistant coach, i'd love dissecting game footage all day.

*after watching game tape*

[smilie=idea3.gif]

"hey guys.....anyone else notice our rebounding sucks?"

you ever know how they sound like they dont want to address anything but scoring at half time? be like "what do you think of the lack of rebounding and mike james being contained in the second half?" to which they answer "well we gotta shoot more jumpers, that other stuff will take care of itself" [smilie=arrgh.jpg]

you ever know how they sound like they dont want to address anything but scoring at half time? be like "what do you think of the lack of rebounding and mike james being contained in the second half?" to which they answer "well we gotta shoot more jumpers, that other stuff will take care of itself" [smilie=arrgh.jpg]

Yes, I hate how the coaching staff "Flips" everything into a problem with offensive execution. It's like they don't give a fuck about defense/rebounding. Makes me a little uneasy. [smilie=anxious.gif]

Delfino trying to deal with inconsistent playing time

There have been games when Carlos Delfino has played well, only to not play at all the next game.

Welcome to Delfino's world, where the only thing consistent about his minutes is that they will be inconsistent.

"I try to take every chance I have," said Delfino, who did not play in the first half of Friday night's game against the New York Knicks. "I have to wait. It's strange because sometimes, one game, two games, I play and I do OK. And then, I don't play. It's strange to me."

And now, with head coach Flip Saunders looking to go with an eight-man playing rotation more often -- a rotation that does not include him -- Delfino's role is even more uncertain.

Saunders said Delfino's lack of playing time has a lot to do with the arrival of Tony Delk, who joined the team two weeks ago.

"It's the minutes that Carlos had gotten when him and Mo (Maurice Evans) played together," Saunders said. "We're playing Tony at the two (shooting guard) along with (point guard) Chauncey (Billups). Right now, it's just a matter of getting Tony on the fast track, get him more comfortable with what we're doing."

However, Delfino believes he has to start getting more playing time in order to continue developing as a player.

"I'm still young," said the 23-year-old Delfino. "And for my development, I want to play. I need to be on the court. It's hard to play one game, two games, and then not play."

Said Saunders: "It's one of those tough things. Do you play well when you get minutes, or do you get minutes when you play well? It's always a fine line."

While Delfino's role may vary from one game to the next, Saunders said the Pistons still believe he'll become a steady contributor.

"He works hard," Saunders said. "I can't say how many times I've known that he goes in the gym 8 o'clock at night to shoot. He's continuing to work on his game."

Delfino's situation is similar to what Tayshaun Prince went through as a rookie.

"And you look what he (Prince) did come playoff time," Saunders said. "I'm sure that at some point when Carlos gets extended minutes, he can be a productive player, too."
http://www.mlive.com/pistons/stories/index.ssf?/base/sports-1/1142680205147230.xml&coll=1&thispage=2

OK, you all know I'm a Darko basher, who ripped Delfino ceaselessly last year, because he was such a wussy about his very minor knee injury.

Well now I think the Pistons should just cut the guy, and let him go play elsewhere. They are scewing him, and its not fair to him or the fans who sit there being teased game in and game out - knowing he can help their favorite team win, but knowing he won't play anyway.

Everything going wrong with Delfino is 100% the Pistons fault, he doesn't deserve it, and he should be allowed to move on.

This team is fucking him over, and I'm starting to believe the organization really does dislike foreign players and try to sabotage their careers, or something.

There is simply no excuse for one of our best bench players, who plays with heart, doesn't complain, does well on the court when he gets minutes, and is better than the guys who play in front of him, not to play.

Its like the Pistons go out of their way to draft foreign players (Memo, Darko, Delfino) just to keep them from going to teams that will play them, in order to sabotage their careers. Like they have some kind of sick fetish with drafting foreign players and making them ride the pine. Its like a sexual fantasy of theirs, or something.

I'm starting to grow convinved that they literally sit there, looking at Delfino ride the pine while Hunter and Evans get minutes they don't deserve and the team loses, and they get an erection watching the way Delfino's thighs hug the pine.

That's the ONLY possible explanation for this shit.

i'm greedy and cutting him gaurantees us keeping evans whose a dud pick up IMO

OK, you all know I'm a Darko basher, who ripped Delfino ceaselessly last year, because he was such a wussy about his very minor knee injury.

Well now I think the Pistons should just cut the guy, and let him go play elsewhere. They are scewing him, and its not fair to him or the fans who sit there being teased game in and game out - knowing he can help their favorite team win, but knowing he won't play anyway.

Everything going wrong with Delfino is 100% the Pistons fault, he doesn't deserve it, and he should be allowed to move on.

This team is fucking him over, and I'm starting to believe the organization really does dislike foreign players and try to sabotage their careers, or something.

There is simply no excuse for one of our best bench players, who plays with heart, doesn't complain, does well on the court when he gets minutes, and is better than the guys who play in front of him, not to play.

Its like the Pistons go out of their way to draft foreign players (Memo, Darko, Delfino) just to keep them from going to teams that will play them, in order to sabotage their careers. Like they have some kind of sick fetish with drafting foreign players and making them ride the pine. Its like a sexual fantasy of theirs, or something.

I'm starting to grow convinved that they literally sit there, looking at Delfino ride the pine while Hunter and Evans get minutes they don't deserve and the team loses, and they get an erection watching the way Delfino's thighs hug the pine.

That's the ONLY possible explanation for this shit.

[smilie=rofl.gif]

It really does make you think, is there some elementi n the franchise which just hates foreign players? or maybe Joe D turned racist after Darko's first season "You know what, FUCK these euro pieces of shit, you wanna go Memo, get the fuck outta here! you shut your whiny mouth Darko! Ooh you're upset about being left outta the playoffs Delfino, sidddown on the bench bitch!!!!"

I'm (half) kidding.

by the way if/when we play Miami in the playoffs, who do you suppose is going to get time guarding Dwayne Wade? You'd think Lindsey Hunter and Carlos Delfino since they've flat out shown they can frustrate Wade. Knowing Flip it will be Tayshaun and Mo Evans. That series (or the upcoming two games) will show us exactly what kinda coach Flip erally is.

Delfino trying to deal with inconsistent playing time

There have been games when Carlos Delfino has played well, only to not play at all the next game.

Welcome to Delfino's world, where the only thing consistent about his minutes is that they will be inconsistent.

"I try to take every chance I have," said Delfino, who did not play in the first half of Friday night's game against the New York Knicks. "I have to wait. It's strange because sometimes, one game, two games, I play and I do OK. And then, I don't play. It's strange to me."

And now, with head coach Flip Saunders looking to go with an eight-man playing rotation more often -- a rotation that does not include him -- Delfino's role is even more uncertain.

Saunders said Delfino's lack of playing time has a lot to do with the arrival of Tony Delk, who joined the team two weeks ago.

"It's the minutes that Carlos had gotten when him and Mo (Maurice Evans) played together," Saunders said. "We're playing Tony at the two (shooting guard) along with (point guard) Chauncey (Billups). Right now, it's just a matter of getting Tony on the fast track, get him more comfortable with what we're doing."

However, Delfino believes he has to start getting more playing time in order to continue developing as a player.

"I'm still young," said the 23-year-old Delfino. "And for my development, I want to play. I need to be on the court. It's hard to play one game, two games, and then not play."

Said Saunders: "It's one of those tough things. Do you play well when you get minutes, or do you get minutes when you play well? It's always a fine line."

While Delfino's role may vary from one game to the next, Saunders said the Pistons still believe he'll become a steady contributor.

"He works hard," Saunders said. "I can't say how many times I've known that he goes in the gym 8 o'clock at night to shoot. He's continuing to work on his game."

Delfino's situation is similar to what Tayshaun Prince went through as a rookie.

"And you look what he (Prince) did come playoff time," Saunders said. "I'm sure that at some point when Carlos gets extended minutes, he can be a productive player, too."
http://www.mlive.com/pistons/stories/index.ssf?/base/sports-1/1142680205147230.xml&coll=1&thispage=2

Nowhere in that article does he explain why Maurice Evans is playing over him at Small Forward.

I hate how certain players have different rules than others.

Flip = gay ...... until he plays delfino.

I am done w. this topic until he plays again. Cause its just gonna be the same shit over and over. He deserves to play...we all know he does. It doesnt look like Flip feels bad about not playing him. So i expect this to continue on until someone gets hurt. Either way i expect him or evans to be gone at the end of the season. No reason to have a guy on our team who doesnt play...and is already developed.

Flip played Delfino tonight. Does that mean he's not gay anymore? I have my doubts...

Anyone notice that he only plays delfino when the media asks him why he dosnt

Anyone notice that he only plays delfino when the media asks him why he dosnt

yep. It's like he's giving him pity minutes just to shut up the critics.

Anyone notice that he only plays delfino when the media asks him why he dosnt
Good point.

He'll get his token minutes for a game or 2, then back to the pine.

And the worst part is in those minutes he out does Evans every time in way less minutes. And Evans hasnt been as bad lately.

Flip played Delfino tonight. Does that mean he's not gay anymore? I have my doubts...

Flip is still gay until he gives him the playing time that he deserves. And not this 6 minute shit that he got tonight. And the only reason he got to play tonight was because Delk hurt himself, and we needed a lill extra D.

Flip doesnt like defense much. he puts hunter in because people ask him about hunter quite a bit and hunter's rep as a vital piece of our 03-04 title. if it wasn't for that he'd smash him too. evans needs a season ending injury. that is all.

Saunders was noncommittal when asked whether Carlos Delfino was out of the team's playing rotation.

"I want to say probably not," Saunders said. "It's situational. I can't say he's definitely out."

Give me a fucking break!

The local media needs to grow a set of balls and flat out ask "Why is Evans in the rotation and Delfino not when Delfino is clearly better?"

You know what, I'm really gettin' sick of this shit...
can someone show me some proof that Delfino is better than Evans... I mean give me one TANGIBLE offensive attribute...
Oh yeah, I've heard all about this gr8 defense (amazing how they selectively forget when he gets beat off the dribble)...
com'n now what is is it besides his cool lookin' handles... digging out loose balls? rebounding?... setting up his teammates?... finishing at the rim?
what the fuck is it!?!

There comes a time when you gotta show the money and quit talkin shit.

I mean give me one TANGIBLE offensive attribute...
you sound like flip. the proof is in the constant points being scored on mo evans and the half of his rebounds he should have slipping out of his hands out of bounds. And of course the dreaded defense.

fuck offense if you're allowing a stack of points on the other end. in fact mo isnt that great offensively either to compound it. Cop an attitude if you please, but fuck off with the offensive attributes only fixed to your liking questions. if thats how you're gonna present your question then its a waste of time to ask it.

i mean you stormed in here like we are being unfair to Flippity Doo Da. Nothing unfair about questioning his personel moves. they arent all that great, oh well. is what it is. but doesnt mean anyone here has to take it w/o speaking on it.

No one called Delfino offensive juggernaut so dont imply such bs. but he's a better "overall" player than evans and probally delk(at the SG position that is) IMO.


Oh yeah, I've heard all about this gr8 defense (amazing how they selectively forget when he gets beat off the dribble)...
com'n now what is is it besides his cool lookin' handles... digging out loose balls? rebounding?... setting up his teammates?... finishing at the rim?
what the fuck is it!?!
amazing how you imagine him getting beat off the dribble on a consistent basis. weird indeed. kinda like saying artest is garbage because kobe got to the hoop a couple times i'm guessing.

either way why dont you name one attribute on evans on defense that he has at all. since we are asking fixed questions. [smilie=angel.gif]

You know what, I'm really gettin' sick of this shit...
can someone show me some proof that Delfino is better than Evans... I mean give me one TANGIBLE offensive attribute...
Oh yeah, I've heard all about this gr8 defense (amazing how they selectively forget when he gets beat off the dribble)...
com'n now what is is it besides his cool lookin' handles... digging out loose balls? rebounding?... setting up his teammates?... finishing at the rim?
what the fuck is it!?!

There comes a time when you gotta show the money and quit talkin shit.

[smilie=lmao.gif] Sorry, had to single that quote out.

Even the best damn defender in the history of the universe has been beaten off the dribble 500 times. Still, with Lindsey having missed most of the season he has been the only player around who has consistantly contained dribble penetration.

If you are still questioning his defense, then this topic is hopeless for you.

Analysis: It's hard to second-guess coaching decisions by Flip Saunders, who is a candidate for the league's coach of the year award. But you have to wonder why he's so reluctant to play Carlos Delfino. Saunders has said Delfino's role is "situational," preferring to use him against bigger shooting guards and some small forwards, when possible. The Pistons will play a number of teams in the next week or so who have those type of players. That should mean more minutes for Delfino, right? Not necessarily. It's clear that Saunders has more trust and confidence in Maurice Evans, who Saunders coached in Minnesota when Evans was a rookie. No one is saying that Delfino will be the difference-maker in whether the Pistons win an NBA title or not. However, not to take a closer look at what Delfino can bring to the team in games -- that's one of the few mistakes Saunders has made this season.

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/stories/index.ssf?/base/sports-1/1142853022241680.xml&coll=1

. No one is saying that Delfino will be the difference-maker in whether the Pistons win an NBA title or not. However, not to take a closer look at what Delfino can bring to the team in games -- that's one of the few mistakes Saunders has made this season.
you should've bolded that. That echoes my feelings almost to a tee. I dont want Flip dead like the mob he's building with his plum dumb idealism of offense only matters. But i do think we are making a serious mistake not playing a guy whose earned it on more intangibles than just scoring. I thought thats what made us so gritty good over the years and what helped us give players like ben wallace a shot along with drafting maxiell. I thought it was about playing your best overall players instead of your best scorers.

Honestly people wouldnt bring this up as much if the people defending it weren't trying to ignore the defensive problems and lack of using Delfino more than Flip himself. Same old attacks. "well he doesn't score, he isnt that good, and he's average on defense because i saw a guy score on him the other night. no one on earth should ever score on a good defender, not even once"...

people would be better off saying they hate defense. Rather than ignoring it.

Yeah maybe I came off a lil strong... it's just getting beyond old the pining for a player that really hasn't shown much...
On his supposed gr8 defensive play are you considering that he takes uneccesary risks and gets burned trying to make steals?

Now we're saying forget the offense?
Mo has played as well if not better on offense than any other SG/SF offensively playing between 9-16 min (maybe that's why you want to forget the offense).
Sure we'd like to see Delfino get a shot but let's not make him out to be something he hasn't proven.

Oh the terrible injustice...pleeease

wow...are you serious. Its rediculous Mercury. No one said it was an injustice...its just stupid. A team that used to win on its D, is lacking in that department over the past few weeks. Instead of playing our defensive minded SG/SF...who brings intensity on the defensive end we play Mo whos shot is broke half the time, and hasnt shown anything on the defensive end.

Again its not an injustice that hes not playing....it just makes sence for him to be in there.

Yeah maybe I came off a lil strong... it's just getting beyond old the pining for a player that really hasn't shown much...
On his supposed gr8 defensive play are you considering that he takes uneccesary risks and gets burned trying to make steals?

Now we're saying forget the offense?
Mo has played as well if not better on offense than any other SG/SF offensively playing between 9-16 min (maybe that's why you want to forget the offense).
Sure we'd like to see Delfino get a shot but let's not make him out to be something he hasn't proven.

Oh the terrible injustice...pleeease
you are a dramatic man. [smilie=arrgh.jpg]

and you're also full of shit on your assessment of delfino's defense. not to mention you are too thickheaded to read my whole post before you throw statements at me that don't relate to anything i said.



Yeah maybe I came off a lil strong... it's just getting beyond old the pining for a player that really hasn't shown much...
yep me too. thats why evans should be benched for delfino. maybe you are mixing the 2 up.


Now we're saying forget the offense?

noooo, you're thinking things no one said. I said don't only factor offense. i said overall ability. Delfino overall is better than evans and maybe even delk(at the sg position not pg position). i posed the defense solely to reflect your offense only question. and of course you didnt want to answer it when the question is fixed. just like you shouldnt anybody here fixed questions. [smilie=angel.gif]


On his supposed gr8 defensive play are you considering that he takes uneccesary risks and gets burned trying to make steals?

once again are you mistaking him for someone else? maybe hunter. i didnt say he makes great steals. thats what iverson and hughes does. Nope i said he plays great perimeter defense. blocking shots in the post, staying in front of his man(which isnt something most others on our perimeter defense do well), able to calm high scorers down. like he did VC, Kobe, pierce, Wade, and most of who he's faced. I and most of the other posters saw this pretty clearly. Maybe you were too busy watching us on offense to care. thats your perogative as long as you dont say bs like you did just now.


Mo has played as well if not better on offense than any other SG/SF offensively playing between 9-16 min (maybe that's why you want to forget the offense)..
and yet he hasnt played better overall by far. that says something about how much he sucks overall i guess. Mo evans at best has been what he's been all year: inconsistent on offensive and bad on defense.
once again on offense he's just an inconsistent spot up shooter who can't hold on to half his rebounds. thats proving something? wow you like Flip are setting a pretty uneaven bar. Mo cant pass or dribble all that well. the couple recent games he actually scored in were against the bottom feeders of the east. And on top of that he played noticebly bad defense in every game still. in fact made some bonshead plays against crawford that were so bad flip had to but cbill on crawford who could just shoot over Billups. So his couple jump shots did lil' to help us win vs his bad defense costing us in the late minutes.

So all in all you're crazy. And on top of that you didn't read my post. You read maybe once sentence and ran with it. to be super duper clear to ya. We are talking bout offense, defense, and everything else. with all that factored in Delfino >>>>>>>Evans easy. yea scoring 103 points on the knicks is fun when you allow 105. You're drinking way too much offensive kool aid Mercury. Or maybe mercury itself, i dont know. but that venom beef you have with delfino is silly. did he do something to you to make up that shit on him.? [smilie=anxious.gif] [smilie=arnold.gif]

Delfino is the better player in every aspect of the game.

Flip needs to play him more, and understand that he is RIPS BACKUP AND NOT TAYS.

How he cant seem to get this thru his skull is beyond me.

I'm, thinking of bringing signs explaining this is to him during a game.

Delfino is the better player in every aspect of the game.

Flip needs to play him more, and understand that he is RIPS BACKUP AND NOT TAYS.

How he cant seem to get this thru his skull is beyond me.

I'm, thinking of bringing signs explaining this is to him during a game.

I agree 100%.

We don't have a legit backup for Tay.

Evans and Delf are both SGs, and Delfino is the more talented of the two.

Look at it like this. Each player has a strength. The difference is that Delfino's strength (defense) is consistant. Mo is still hit or miss on his (offense). If he's hitting his shots, and getting open for dunks in transition, great. But he's just as liable to just stand in the corner and airball a wideopen three.

Sorry, but I'll take the person who I know will have a positive contribution on a nightly basis. Not to mention it is Defense that wins championships. Do you really want Mo to be the main backup swingman guarding guys like Lebron, Wade, Manu, etc who are playing almost entire games because it's the playoffs? I know I don't.

And BTW, Delfino can definately play the 3. The 2 may be his natural position, but he's biggest swingman on this team. He's the 1 guy that won't get backed down OR shot over by bigger 3's. Mo gets shot over and Tay gets backed down like it's nothing. Evans should NEVER play the SF spot, ever. It's like target practice with him on SFs.

Delfino is the better player in every aspect of the game.

Flip needs to play him more, and understand that he is RIPS BACKUP AND NOT TAYS.

How he cant seem to get this thru his skull is beyond me.

I'm, thinking of bringing signs explaining this is to him during a game.

Exactly. We havent had a backup for Tay since 04.
Man, I still miss Big Nasty.
How I wish NBA teams could restructure Contracts like in the NFL [smilie=angryfire.g:


Anyways, I'm getting off point.
The only thing Evans has on Delfino is free throw shooting, and that sure as hell shouldnt be enough to keep him ahead of Delfino.
I wish Flip would relize that our pace and defensive intensity always goes up with Carlos in the game.

Look at it like this. Each player has a strength. The difference is that Delfino's strength (defense) is consistant. Mo is still hit or miss on his (offense). If he's hitting his shots, and getting open for dunks in transition, great. But he's just as liable to just stand in the corner and airball a wideopen three.

Sorry, but I'll take the person who I know will have a positive contribution on a nightly basis. Not to mention it is Defense that wins championships. Do you really want Mo to be the main backup swingman guarding guys like Lebron, Wade, Manu, etc who are playing almost entire games because it's the playoffs? I know I don't.

And BTW, Delfino can definately play the 3. The 2 may be his natural position, but he's biggest swingman on this team. He's the 1 guy that won't get backed down OR shot over by bigger 3's. Mo gets shot over and Tay gets backed down like it's nothing. Evans should NEVER play the SF spot, ever. It's like target practice with him on SFs.I understand that Delfino can play the 3, but I would much rather it be Evans to do so.

Delfino may be our best perimiter defender, and, gulp, our best post defender on anyone 6'8 and shorter.

Delfinos strength, is exactly that, his strength. The man may be the srongest guy on the team next to Ben Wallace. He doesn't give ground, and doesn't take to getting pushed around, he pushed back, and, unlike some of the pussier Pistons lately *cough* princess *cough* will smack the crap out of someone who gets the drop on him.

This is REALLY becoming a disturbing trend in recent Pistons history of some 'tard getting more playtime then an obviously superior player, or a player just not getting any playtime at all;

Curry over Prince.- This one drove ALL OF US INSANE. Curry's obvious limitations made us all wonder if Carlise was just a moron.

Robinson over Okur.-This one made me mad as hell. As well as him bieng is Browns doghouse all the time.

Darko never playing-I undertand that this is a title team, but not finding even irregular minutes for him every game is almost inexcusible. It could have been used to rest Ben/Rasheed for 5minutes a game.

Evans over Delfino-This one may be the most painfull. Flips idea of a team, directly goes against what all us Pistonsfans believe in, DEFENSE. Delfino is the OBVIOUS CHOICE IN EVERY situation. Evans is a fine rebounder, and has a decent touch from the three-point line, but hey, guess what, Delfino now only does that better then Evans, he also can penetrate, handle the ball, play RUGGED defense, and plays with emotion. Evans looks like he was injected with sleeping agent before some games.

I'm sure thereare other instances, but those are the ones that pop out at me.

Also, why in the HELL is Maxiell not playing? IM SURE you can find a few minutes here and there in some games for energy. It mixes things up, ad when the vets see the young guys get out there and mix it up, it pumps them up as well.

Every coach is going to do some things that piss us off as fans, but why the same EXACT PROBLEM WITH EVERY PISTONS COACH?


PLAY THE YOUNG GUYS FFS ALREADY.

Evans over Delfino-This one may be the most painfull. Flips idea of a team, directly goes against what all us Pistonsfans believe in, DEFENSE. Delfino is the OBVIOUS CHOICE IN EVERY situation. Evans is a fine rebounder, and has a decent touch from the three-point line, but hey, guess what, Delfino now only does that better then Evans, he also can penetrate, handle the ball, play RUGGED defense, and plays with emotion. Evans looks like he was injected with sleeping agent before some games.

And to tell the truth, Delfino is much better at the offense part that Evans is too.

A few games ago, you could see Billups yellin at Evans for just standing in the corner on offense while they were haveing issues moving the ball. Delfino is sorta like Rip. He's always on the move, and lots of times he'll be slashing though the D. Delfino is obviously so much better.

I understand that Delfino can play the 3, but I would much rather it be Evans to do so.


Yes, I would much rather Mo Evans could play the 3, so Delfino could play at his natural position, but Mo isn't capable of defending 3's don't confuse that for me implying he can defend anyone, but he definately can't guard 3's. He's just too short and slow to react.

Anthony, I saw the same thing. In fact, I've seen Chauncey yelling at Mo at least twice in the last 3 games for not doing what he's supposed to be doing on offense.

I think this would be the appropriate time to remind you all that we are 52-13.

That is all.

Evans over Delfino-This one may be the most painfull. Flips idea of a team, directly goes against what all us Pistonsfans believe in, DEFENSE. Delfino is the OBVIOUS CHOICE IN EVERY situation. Evans is a fine rebounder, and has a decent touch from the three-point line, but hey, guess what, Delfino now only does that better then Evans, he also can penetrate, handle the ball, play RUGGED defense, and plays with emotion. Evans looks like he was injected with sleeping agent before some games.

And to tell the truth, Delfino is much better at the offense part that Evans is too.

A few games ago, you could see Billups yellin at Evans for just standing in the corner on offense while they were haveing issues moving the ball. Delfino is sorta like Rip. He's always on the move, and lots of times he'll be slashing though the D. Delfino is obviously so much better.No kidding. Flip has Delfino standing around the three-point line, when i DREAM of having him, AND RIP cross-screaning running around, each possibly getting the ball.

Delfino should also have clear-outs called for him, and have him drive the lane, and either finish, or pass out of the trap, wich he EXCELLS at. That would do wonders for our offense at times. Imagine him driving thelane, and the other team collapsing! He could kick it to RIP/BILLUPS/PRINCE/RASHEED/EVANS/DELK/HUNTER for a WIDE OPEN SHOT! Teams will learn if they collpase, they get burnt EVERYTIME. In a few eeks time, after teams learn this, Delfino could have a fucking FIELD DAY much like Wade, but with ACTUALL THREE-POINT THREATS!

Man i'm upset.

Flip is driving me insane with this. For someone who has wet dreams about offensive plays, you'd think this would dawn on him.

Delfino should also have clear-outs called for him, and have him drive the lane, and either finish, or pass out of the trap, wich he EXCELLS at. That would do wonders for our offense at times. Imagine him driving thelane, and the other team collapsing! He could kick it to RIP/BILLUPS/PRINCE/RASHEED/EVANS/DELK/HUNTER for a WIDE OPEN SHOT! Teams will learn if they collpase, they get burnt EVERYTIME. In a few eeks time, after teams learn this, Delfino could have a fucking FIELD DAY much like Wade, but with ACTUALL THREE-POINT THREATS!


Screw clearouts, run Pick and rolls/pops with him and Sheed/Dice. The same thing that the Heat kill us on with Wade/Haslem, and the Spurs kill us on with Manu/Duncan. Flip tries these kinds of things with Chauncey, but it's so limited because Chauncey is not a good finisher at the rim. Delfino is the only player on the team that has the ball-handling skills to dribble in the lane, and the strength to finish at the rim, yet those skills are never used.

Yeah maybe I came off a lil strong... it's just getting beyond old the pining for a player that really hasn't shown much...
On his supposed gr8 defensive play are you considering that he takes uneccesary risks and gets burned trying to make steals?

Now we're saying forget the offense?
Mo has played as well if not better on offense than any other SG/SF offensively playing between 9-16 min (maybe that's why you want to forget the offense).
Sure we'd like to see Delfino get a shot but let's not make him out to be something he hasn't proven.

Oh the terrible injustice...pleeease
you are a dramatic man. [smilie=arrgh.jpg]


After reading your post looks like you've cornered the market on the drama (along with personal insults)...doesn't make you more right...
Have a nice day [smilie=baby.gif]

As for the comparisons of Evans & Delfino we're not talking about an impact difference... at best it's a 1 PPG swing either way when you consider the few minutes either would play... hardly worth ranting about the coaches screwed up sub patterns.

Evans over Delfino-This one may be the most painfull. Flips idea of a team, directly goes against what all us Pistonsfans believe in, DEFENSE. Delfino is the OBVIOUS CHOICE IN EVERY situation. Evans is a fine rebounder, and has a decent touch from the three-point line, but hey, guess what, Delfino now only does that better then Evans, he also can penetrate, handle the ball, play RUGGED defense, and plays with emotion. Evans looks like he was injected with sleeping agent before some games.

And to tell the truth, Delfino is much better at the offense part that Evans is too.

A few games ago, you could see Billups yellin at Evans for just standing in the corner on offense while they were haveing issues moving the ball. Delfino is sorta like Rip. He's always on the move, and lots of times he'll be slashing though the D. Delfino is obviously so much better.No kidding. Flip has Delfino standing around the three-point line, when i DREAM of having him, AND RIP cross-screaning running around, each possibly getting the ball.

Delfino should also have clear-outs called for him, and have him drive the lane, and either finish, or pass out of the trap, wich he EXCELLS at. That would do wonders for our offense at times. Imagine him driving thelane, and the other team collapsing! He could kick it to RIP/BILLUPS/PRINCE/RASHEED/EVANS/DELK/HUNTER for a WIDE OPEN SHOT! Teams will learn if they collpase, they get burnt EVERYTIME. In a few eeks time, after teams learn this, Delfino could have a fucking FIELD DAY much like Wade, but with ACTUALL THREE-POINT THREATS!

Man i'm upset.

Flip is driving me insane with this. For someone who has wet dreams about offensive plays, you'd think this would dawn on him.

I totally agree with you.

And let me just say, that when we signed Evans, I was really excited. And I still like him a lot. Just not the way Flip is using him, especially in front of Delfino.

One reason I think people hate on Evans a lot is when he was signed, he was thought to be a defensive guy. His defense is grossly over rated on this team, but when he was with the Kings, it was not because the kings were and still are one of the worst defensive teams i've ever seen. So his defense looked better on a team that played no D rather than on a team that is known for D.

I still think Evans can be an explosive player, but only in certain situations. He can knock the 3, that is true. But i'd rather see him slashing to the hole for Jams. Problem is, the only times he goes to the hole is when he cant the 3 off and tries to drive the lane. Problem is, he isn’t real fast and has 0 handles and turns the ball over most of the time. I'd rather see him going back door for easy jams.

Delfino on the other hand, I wish Flip would use him like he used Spree in Minny. That would be the perfect role for Delfino. We need a slasher off the bench, and no1 on this team is as good a slasher as Delfino when he gets going to the hole. Like you said Zeeb, if you get Him going to the hole, there is so many things that can happen:
He can Jam it
He can lay it off to Dice/Ben/Sheed
He can kick it out to Billups/RIP/Delk/Hunter for the 3
He can draw a foul

So many options off of one guy slashing. In fact, its simple basketball. With flip's big complicated system, you'd think there would be basics in there. But for some reason, he seemed so damn fixed on running these complex plays that involve 82 options and 397 screens, we cant fit in a simple slash and kick out? Please. No excuse for that what so ever.

Hopefully Flip will smarten up (we've been saying that all year) and realize that using Delfino in his offense only adds more than it subtracts.

I didnt even mention his pesky defense.
I really hope Flip stats to use this guys talents.

And let me just say, that when we signed Evans, I was really excited. And I still like him a lot. Just not the way Flip is using him, especially in front of Delfino.

i honestly think that 99% of pistons fans thought the same way. Evans seemed like a solid pick up, but Delfino's game seems to have progressed and i honestly think we've just scratched the surface on how good he can be.

Evans has plateaued. i really can't believe he's getting any better at this point.

i think that Flip's loyalty to Evans is really blinding him. that's the only reason i can think of.

After reading your post looks like you've cornered the market on the drama (along with personal insults)...doesn't make you more right...
Have a nice day [smilie=baby.gif]

As for the comparisons of Evans & Delfino we're not talking about an impact difference... at best it's a 1 PPG swing either way when you consider the few minutes either would play... hardly worth ranting about the coaches screwed up sub patterns.
yea go to sleep baby. Its better that way. If you found drama in my post thats not my fault. i didnt use terms like "injustice". [smilie=arnold.gif]

you seem to try and oversimplify things. the swing is beyond 1 point. but what can I say, you haven't paid any attention whatsoever. i'm responding to your whole post and you're just trying to find a clever snappy response to whatever sentence catches your attention on my end(no that good at it either). whatever world you're living in i see you seem to think its all about offense. defense is non-existent in this world i've noticed. a person scores 1 ppg per more than another its a 1 point difference. But in the real world you have to defend. And how much you allow makes a big difference. if kobe scores half of his points on evans alone within a few minute span, and only 3 on delfino in bout the same amount of time. I think thats a more than 1 point difference, If VC is only able to riddle off 2 points on delfino, but 10+ on evans you have to factor that in. If jamal crawford lights up evans, his couple baskets dont count for much and it shows.

1 point difference isnt what i would call it. But i'm looking at BOTH sides of the ball. you have your tivo set to offensive plays only i see. [smilie=arnold.gif]

And let me just say, that when we signed Evans, I was really excited. And I still like him a lot. Just not the way Flip is using him, especially in front of Delfino.

i honestly think that 99% of pistons fans thought the same way. Evans seemed like a solid pick up, but Delfino's game seems to have progressed and i honestly think we've just scratched the surface on how good he can be.

Evans has plateaued. i really can't believe he's getting any better at this point.

i think that Flip's loyalty to Evans is really blinding him. that's the only reason i can think of.
or maybe he's like mercury trying to rationalize Evans as the guy to play? who knows. I know one thing. Its a bad sign for your coaches and assistant coaches to worry about the offense first when we are giving up almost 100ppg this month. Hopefully Ben can get everyone thinking defense regardless of the one sided coaching staff.

once again i did like having assistant coaches who didnt agree with the head coach all the time last year vs ones who hang onto his coat tail.

I agree with all the Delfino supporters... but since when is Chauncey not a good finisher around the rim?

Yeah, that one sorta threw me off too.

INo dount Chauncey can drive the lane. ts prolly better to have more than one guy that can drive to the rack though.

PS: Flip played Delfino his 4 minutes tonight to apease us...and since he didnt score, and Evans did.. i assume we wont see him for another couple DNP-CDs....

Or untill the media asks him again.

BTW, while Delfino was out there he set up two or 3 great scoring plays for others by slashing.

Or untill the media asks him again.

BTW, while Delfino was out there he set up two or 3 great scoring plays for others by slashing.

Glad to see someone else noticed that.

this did not show in the box score...which is what this coaching staff uses to evaluate its players apperantly. [smilie=angryfire.g:

I agree with all the Delfino supporters... but since when is Chauncey not a good finisher around the rim?

[smilie=anxious.gif] He's just not. How many times have you seen him blow wide open layups in transition? How many times have you seen him drive the lane and throw up ugly shots? The stats back it up....

http://www.82games.com/scorers.htm

Check out the Lowest FG% on close shots. He is by FAR the worst of the top 44 scorers in the league (those are the only ones they list in that article). It isn't even remotely close. And actually, it has dropped to 40% since that article was done. http://www.82games.com/0506/05DET2A.HTM That is an awful percentage considering it includes all of the run-out layups that are wide open.

He's good for an occassional circus shot after taking a hit, but he gets stuffed like crazy, and seems to only try to draw fouls down there. If you think Chauncey is a good finisher at the rim, you are a homer. He shoots a higher percentage at 24 feet than he does at 1 foot.

FP22 i was on your side until that. cbill is a solid finisher. sorry i can't agree with that.

FP22 i was on your side until that. cbill is a solid finisher. sorry i can't agree with that.

40%.....

As sheed would say.... Ball Don't lie. Neither do my eyes. I really thought this was common knowledge. I mean, Chauncey is a top 2 PG in the league, but finishing in the paint is not his strongsuit, that's all.

Doesn't matter either way. That was not the point of the post. The point is that it would be nice to have another player who can handle the ball, get in the paint, and draw defenders. Especially off the bench.

FP22 i was on your side until that. cbill is a solid finisher. sorry i can't agree with that.

40%.....

As sheed would say.... Ball Don't lie.
once again theres plenty of stats you can throw at delfino to put him on blast. but those stats arent accurate on how well he plays. i say the same for billups on this. So remember the Delfino situation before you mash on billups so hard cuzz of that stat. [smilie=artist.gif]

once again theres plenty of stats you can throw at delfino to put him on blast. but those stats arent accurate on how well he plays. i say the same for billups on this. So remember the Delfino situation before you mash on billups so hard cuzz of that stat. [smilie=artist.gif]

Billups gets consistant minutes. Delfino is far from it. So the stat situation is a little fuzzy. I tend to write off the stats of most players who play half of their minutes in garbage time. Not to mention Delfino is a young player, so he is obviously going to have flaws.

Billups has weaknesses just as Delfino does. Delfino has a knack for getting rejected at the rim, and a streaky shot. Billups has a knack for trying to get fouled instead of finishing shots at the rim. He isn't great at using the glass for a layup either.

Again, I'm not "mashing" Billups. His strengths FAR outweigh his weaknesses. I feel the same way with Delfino. It's guys like Mo Evans that I don't.

Greatest quote ever:


"You wrap dead fish in stats"
---Larry Brown


Stats dont mean shit.

When a player that logs significant minutes has only one dunk all year, it's usually safe to say that he's not a strong finisher.

While there is more to "finishing" than dunking, of course, having that in your repertoire sure makes it a lot easier.

That being said, Chauncey is NOT the worst finisher on the team. That award goes to Lindsey. In fact, Lindsey could win the lifetime achievement award in this category.

Evans also has his fair share of fumbles around or under the basket.
I hate when people knock LH

I hate when people knock LH

I really like Lindsey, always have. He's not immune from criticism, though. He certainly has his strengths and his shortcomings as a player.

Oh I know. But I see him as the Ben Wallace of guards. You know whatever he gives you on the offensive end is just a bonus to all the hounding he does on the defensive end. So I just like to overlook what he does (or dosnt) do on the offensive end [smilie=2thumbsup.g:

Oh I know. But I see him as the Ben Wallace of guards. You know whatever he gives you on the offensive end is just a bonus to all the hounding he does on the defensive end. So I just like to overlook what he does (or dosnt) do on the offensive end [smilie=2thumbsup.g:
yea overlooking defense is a bad habit around here. [smilie=angryfire.g:

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060321/SPORTS0102/603210361/1127

Tuesday, March 21, 2006

Burning Questions

Delfino is a victim of numbers

Chris McCosky / The Detroit News

Burning questions about Flip Saunders' strategy:

Q . Can you explain Saunders' reluctance to use Carlos Delfino?

A . I don't think it's reluctance on his part. I think he is genuinely uncertain as to how and when to use Delfino.

The way Saunders explains it, he wants to match up Delfino with the bigger swing men (like Al Harrington on Monday night and Dwyane Wade on Wednesday). He wants to use Maurice Evans against smaller swing men.

Then along came Tony Delk. As the Pistons try to give Delk a crash course into Saunders' system, they have given him some of Delfino's minutes.

Delfino believes, and I agree, his play has warranted more time. He has shown he can defend, and he is one of the better open-floor players on the team. But with Tayshaun Prince and Richard Hamilton being who they are, there aren't a lot of minutes left for the reserves -- especially with four players (Delfino, Evans, Delk and Lindsey Hunter) backing up essentially two spots.

The Pistons rarely sub out all three perimeter starters at the same time.

Q . Is Delfino getting Darko'd?

A . If getting Darko'd means he is, like Milicic, a young, talented player whose development is being suffocated by a coach's unwillingness to play younger players -- then, no, he's not.

Here's the thing about Evans: Right or wrong, he is Saunders' guy. Saunders brought him into the league. Saunders has helped nurture his career. There is a certain trust and comfort level.

Delfino, obviously, hasn't had the chance to gain the same trust level. At the same time, it's not like Evans has been a bust. He has been inconsistent, but he has made a considerable impact with his energy and athleticism. Evans was shooting 47 percent before Monday (compared to 40 percent for Delfino) and had 35 steals (to 14 for Delfino).

While some in the Pistons front office would like to see Delfino play more, Saunders has to be allowed to use players as he sees fit. The evidence isn't overwhelming to suggest playing Evans over Delfino is a mistake.

That being said, Chauncey is NOT the worst finisher on the team. That award goes to Lindsey. In fact, Lindsey could win the lifetime achievement award in this category.

I never said he was the worst. I said he was not a good finisher around the rim.

As for your dunking comment... I would say look at players like Tony Parker and Steve Nash. Those guys don't dunk, but they have a lot more finesse around the rim. They know where to put it and how much spin to put on the ball to avoid shot-blocking and still hit the shot. Chauncey isn't really a finesse guard.

A . If getting Darko'd means he is, like Milicic, a young, talented player whose development is being suffocated by a coach's unwillingness to play younger players -- then, no, he's not.

Suffocated might not be the right word, but this is his 2nd season, his first full season "playing", and is 23 years old. You're damn right his development is being negatively affected. this happens with every young player we get. Its like Tayshaun under Carlisle all over again. I'll laugh (very bitterly tough) if Delfino bolts for another team and blossoms (lol) playing 20+ minutes for another team.

He prolly win. Givin the chance i believe he could be an impact player in this league. Hes got all the tools that it takes to be good.But alota players do ala Darko. So yea hopefully he stays but we will find out soon enough. No way does he stay here if theirs not a promise of more playing time next year.

Wait, Flip wants to play the Delfino(small quick guy) vs. big slow guys, so he can get raped on D, and Evans(big slower guy) vs. small quick guys, so he can get raped on D?

And Dwayne Wade is a big guy??? Isn't he small enough that they tried to force him to be a PG?

Wait, Flip wants to play the Delfino(small quick guy) vs. big slow guys, so he can get raped on D, and Evans(big slower guy) vs. small quick guys, so he can get raped on D?

And Dwayne Wade is a big guy??? Isn't he small enough that they tried to force him to be a PG?

I think it's safe to say that the person who wrote that article is full of it.

And Delfino is 6-6/230. I wouldn't call him small. He is the best perimeter player we have at guarding bigger 3's. Mo Evans is 6-5 (probably a little shorter)/ 220. But he can't guard anybody. You just have to throw him on a scrub, and hope that scrub has an off-night or doesn't want to shoot.

Tonight against the heat we will be able to see if Flip is full of shit about "playing delfino in situational play" cause Wade is the player he OWNED on D. So if Mo Evans is out there guarding wade and droppin 50 on us im just gonna give up on this shit.

Lathamazing

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060322/SPORTS03/603220390/1051


KRISTA LATHAM: Delfino doesn't let dropping minutes sag his spirits

March 22, 2006

Late at night, long after work should be over, Pistons guard Carlos Delfino likes to sneak into the empty Pistons practice facility for a little extra work.

No one tells him to do it. And it's not just because his minutes have gone down since the arrival of Tony Delk three weeks ago.

Delfino shows up out of habit and desire. He wants to get better, and besides, when he played in Argentina, two-a-day workouts were a way of life.

"I know that, after last year with my injury, it's best for my development to get time to play on the court," Delfino said. "I still work all the time on my own to try and continue to be in the best shape and be ready to play. But to work out, it's not the same as this."

"This," meaning an actual game.

Pistons coach Flip Saunders said last week that he wants to say Delfino isn't out of the rotation. He calls Delfino, who averages 3.3 points and 1.7 rebounds, "situational" and says he'd like to use him against opponents' bigger swingmen.

But he's having trouble proving that with his minute allocation.

Delfino was penciled in as a "did not play (coach's decision)" in two of the past five games, and in the three others, he played a combined 15 minutes -- against some of the worst teams in the league.

He said he doesn't question why. He just works to get better and use whatever minutes he gets the best he can.

"I just try to do my best every time I hit the court," Delfino said. "I just want to help the team."

Wait, Flip wants to play the Delfino(small quick guy) vs. big slow guys, so he can get raped on D, and Evans(big slower guy) vs. small quick guys, so he can get raped on D?

And Dwayne Wade is a big guy??? Isn't he small enough that they tried to force him to be a PG?

I think it's safe to say that the person who wrote that article is full of it.

And Delfino is 6-6/230. I wouldn't call him small. He is the best perimeter player we have at guarding bigger 3's. Mo Evans is 6-5 (probably a little shorter)/ 220. But he can't guard anybody. You just have to throw him on a scrub, and hope that scrub has an off-night or doesn't want to shoot.

I thought Delfino was smaller, maybe 6'4, 200.

I thought Delfino was smaller, maybe 6'4, 200.

Nope [smilie=applause.gi:

3/22/06 - Delfino DNP-CD

3/22/06 - i officially give up on Delfino playing anything other than garbage minutes for the rest the season, and playoffs.

Please, please JoeD.....cut or trade Mo in the off-season. that's the ONLY way Flip is going to play him.

I guess this game means that we won't be seeing Delfino for the rest of the season and the playoffs, unless there is an injury or something like that.

Name Min FG 3Pt FT Off Reb Ast TO Stl Blk PF Pts
M.Evans 9 0-6 0-2 0-0 2 4 0 0 0 0 1 0

[smilie=beat_deadho:

So which team will Delfino end up on, playing well? I'm gonna go with atlanta or boston. or maybe memphis.

So which team will Delfino end up on, playing well? I'm gonna go with atlanta or boston. or maybe memphis.

Denver?

Houston?

The only certain thing is the fact that he won't be with us unless certain things change.

fuck that. the front office isnt letting him go just yet IMO. theres still time left to drop that bum evans. And its at a point where i dont even like the kid. he's just darvin ham with less defense and a 3 point shot.

its not just a matter of the front office, at some point he's just gonna lose his will and fall into the "it doesn't matter how I play, i'm gonna get benched" funk, and the energy and eagerness will be gone and he'll just want to be elsewhere.

If Evans was really helping us out, I wouldn't complain, but he's had many more bad games than good games.

OK, this is getting ridiculous. Mo NEVER does anything against any decent teams because he relies on defensive lapses for easy dunks on pinpoint dimes from Chauncey and he can't defend. Delfino is the type of player that can step up against good teams because he can actually match the talent level.

doesn't matter. Mo is Flip's buddy, so Flip is giving him the spot and stacking it against Delf. the more Delfino's improving play threatened Evans' spot, the less Delfino played.

it's not worth banging your head on the desk anymore. Flip said AGAIN in the post game interview, "i wish i could have gotten Delfino in". if he really did wish that, he would have had him in....or he would have told his assistants to remind him.

in the playoffs, it's going to be Hunter, Delk, and Mo at backup 1, 2, and 3.....that's what i'm expecting.

it's too draining to constantly wonder why Delfino isn't playing.

it's not worth banging your head on the desk anymore. Flip said AGAIN in the post game interview, "i wish i could have gotten Delfino in". if he really did wish that, he would have had him in....or he would have told his assistants to remind him.


Yea, it's total BS. It's like he's making it sound as if Hunter/Delk/Evans were killing it out there, so he couldn't possibly take them out of the game. He ignores the fact that they were a combined 1 for 13. Lindsey was the only guy out there doing absolutely anything positive.

I like Delfino over all of our perimeter bench guys.

Flip is just lying his butt off. He's helping his Minnesota buddy out.... but maybe he'll end up "helping" Mo to a hasty exist if Joe D wakes up.

Flip is just lying his butt off. He's helping his Minnesota buddy out.... but maybe he'll end up "helping" Mo to a hasty exist if Joe D wakes up.

I wish I knew how Joe felt about the situation. It would make me a lot more confident that something will happen in the future to take away Flip's security blanket. I hope he hasn't been cast under Flip's spell [smilie=arrgh.jpg]

Flip is just lying his butt off. He's helping his Minnesota buddy out.... but maybe he'll end up "helping" Mo to a hasty exist if Joe D wakes up.

I wish I knew how Joe felt about the situation. It would make me a lot more confident that something will happen in the future to take away Flip's security blanket. I hope he hasn't been cast under Flip's spell [smilie=arrgh.jpg]

While some in the Pistons front office would like to see Delfino play more, Saunders has to be allowed to use players as he sees fit. The evidence isn't overwhelming to suggest playing Evans over Delfino is a mistake.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060321/SPORTS0102/603210361/1127

I still cant get over the fact that delfino didnt play at all against the heat. I know wade had an off night so dels D was not needed. But when a guy who you compete for minutes with goes 0 fer whatever. I mean Evans was missing layups for god sakes. He had one good rebound and then immediatly ran down the court and blew a fast break layup. I dunno, but Flips use of Delfino really makes me question his ability to judge talent. I know people have been sayin for a while that Mo plays cause Flips his buddy, and i really didnt think that a think like that would happen. But after tonight i think that it was blatently obvious.

I still cant get over the fact that delfino didnt play at all against the heat. I know wade had an off night so dels D was not needed. But when a guy who you compete for minutes with goes 0 fer whatever. I mean Evans was missing layups for god sakes. He had one good rebound and then immediatly ran down the court and blew a fast break layup. I dunno, but Flips use of Delfino really makes me question his ability to judge talent. I know people have been sayin for a while that Mo plays cause Flips his buddy, and i really didnt think that a think like that would happen. But after tonight i think that it was blatently obvious.
Evans has played in every single game so far. 0 DNP's. That right there should tell you something.

I don't think Flip is going Delfino again this season, including the playoffs.

The reason I say is because Flip mentioned earlier in one of his interviews that he likes to use Delfino against bigger wing players like Harrington and Wade (even though Wade is not a big guy). But after this game, Flip is going to come to the conclusion that he won't need Delfino because Wade went 3-15. The only way Delfino is going to see any substantial PT is if JoeD steps in or if there is an injury or two.

Flip said he "wanted to get Carlos in" in the postgame press conference.


Fucking liar. [smilie=a.gif]

Flip said he "wanted to get Carlos in" in the postgame press conference.


Fucking liar. [smilie=a.gif]
he always says that. "i want carlos in, but mo evans gives good head" [smilie=arrgh.jpg]

As long as we cut mo evans this offseason while keeping delfino and winning the title regardless, i'd be cool.

As long as we cut mo evans this offseason while keeping delfino and winning the title regardless, i'd be cool.

sounds about right.....i don't think playing Mo over Delfino will cost us a championship THIS season. but we're screwing our future if we decide to play Mo in favor of developing Delf.

trade him in the off-season for a second round draft pick.

As long as we cut mo evans this offseason while keeping delfino and winning the title regardless, i'd be cool.

sounds about right.....i don't think playing Mo over Delfino will cost us a championship THIS season. but we're screwing our future if we decide to play Mo in favor of developing Delf.

trade him in the off-season for a second round draft pick.
more like trade him for a beat up lexus and a box of crackers.


no one is giving us a 2nd round pick for him. packaging him with cato might play out better.

oh do i have be the one to notice that delk was useless in this heat game on both ends? I hope thats not a constant thing with all the contenders coming up.

In the past Joe traded Mike Curry (and also Rodney White) which guaranteed Tayshaun Prince would be the starting SF.

That is the only example I can come up with where Joe has made a trade to get what he wanted but one could assume:

He traded Corliss Williams for an out of shape Derrick Coleman not only for cap reasons but to ensure Antonio McDyess got all the minutes at PF.

He traded Mateen Cleaves to ensure that Chucky Atkins started at PG.

He traded Cliff Robinson to ensure Mehmet Okur got a lot of playing time up front (left the coach with Zeljiko Rebracca and Elden Campbell as the only other candidates to start with Ben Wallace).

Some of those might be a reach (cough Cleaves cough) but maybe there is some truth to the theory that Joe will trade Evans this off-season?

By the numbers:

Maurice Evans makes $1,500,000.

We can take back as much as $1,850,000 in a trade or as little as $1,150,000.

FWIW: The veteran's minimum this off-season should be around $1,150,000

IIRC the vet minimum for this season was $1,100,000 - it has to go up every year, right?

There must be a lot of players in that price range.

I'm going to personally start a LOL@Flip thread if Joe D gets rid of Mo Evans in the offseason, because Flip will have made that happen. If he'd even given Delfino a few consistent minutes then it woulda been enough.

The problem with trading Mo (and I'm all for it, if that's the only way to get Delfino PT) is that we'd still need to get another backup just incase of an injury. At that point you have to get a player who is good enough to play minutes, but you could end up with another player that Flip prefers over Delfino. If Flip's stupid enough to play Mo over Delfino who's to say he wouldn't do the same with some other scrub?

At least this time we could get a legit Small Forward.

The problem with trading Mo (and I'm all for it, if that's the only way to get Delfino PT) is that we'd still need to get another backup just incase of an injury. At that point you have to get a player who is good enough to play minutes, but you could end up with another player that Flip prefers over Delfino. If Flip's stupid enough to play Mo over Delfino who's to say he wouldn't do the same with some other scrub?

At least this time we could get a legit Small Forward.

Rasual Butler would be nice, IMO.

Here are some Free Agent Small Forwards...

* = likely too expensive

Al Harrington* (PF/SF tweener)
Jumaine Jones
DerMarr Johnson
Chuck Hayes (SF/PF tweener)
Vladimir Radmanovic*
Devean George
Justin Reed
Rasual Butler
Qyntel Woods
Trevor Ariza
Stacey Augmon
Tim Thomas (SF/PF tweener)
Bonzi Wells (More of a SG)
Matt Harpring
Jared Jeffries

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I actually like Justin Reed if we could get him for cheap. He's not a guy that Flip would fall in love with because he isn't a great shooter, but he's a good, versatile defender, and he has a solid post game. He'd give us size at the back-up three spot that just hasn't been there the last couple years. I also like Jumaine Jones and Rasual Butler.c Maybe Devean George as well since he has championship experience.

Props to Moss.

http://www.detroitsportsrag.com/articles/mossism032406.html


Cry For Me Argentina

It was just a matter of time. The only thing more predictable than me turning on the coach of the Pistons is an FBI informant who is ratting on the Soprano family turning up dead.

And my official transformation to the dark side occurred on Wednesday night during the Pistons-Heat game at the Palace.

And my turn on Phil Saunders was eerily similar to how I officially declared Prick Carlisle and Larry Brown enemies of this site.

It was Carlisle's asinine decision to continue playing Michael Curry over Tayshaun Prince.

Then it was Brown's stubborn refusal to play Mehmet Okur in the 2004 New Jersey playoff series and his continued refusal to attempt to develop Total Puke Garbage. (And did anyone else find it humorous that Darko put up 13-7-4 against "Chanukah" Larry the other night?)

And it played out the same way on Wednesday as I started screaming at Twitch Saunders to insert Carlos Delfino into the Pistons lineup during the team's atrocious first half.

WILL SOMEONE PLEASE FUCKING EXPLAIN TO ME WHY DELFINO CAN'T GET ANY FUCKING PLAYING TIME?

I mean, did the suave Argentine sleep with one of Twitch's twin daughters? Or both Kimberly and Rachel?

Because it doesn't make any fucking sense why this guy can't get any burn. He is GOOD. He is ATHLETIC. He has improved DEFENSIVELY. He can shoot the THREE. He can PENETRATE. He is a fucking SPARK.

Are you getting this through your thick skull, Twitch, or do I need to send the GOU (Argentina History ™) to your door to give you a fucking wake-up call.

Play the guy!!!!! This versatile player is sitting on the bench so you can play Tony Delk (who couldn't hit the floor with the Atlanta Hawks) and your boy Maurice Evans.

Delfino is better than Evans. Unlike Evans who can only make field goals from the Bruce Bowen spot on the floor, Delfino actually has range and can beat his man off the dribble.

I am so sick of hearing everyone bitch about the Pistons bench (I am talking to you Boston Sports Cunt) when the answer is sitting right fucking there in a blue and red warm-up.

Put the guy in the rotation. Now!!

And if you don't?

We are going to start telling Bill Davidson that you are being rude to Palace secretaries and then we are going to spread a rumor that you are in negotiations to take the …. Insert any open coaching vacancy here including NFL commissioner.

(And while we are at it, stop playing Delk and Lindsey Hunter together late in close games and do not let Chauncey Billups sit on the pine with under five minutes left in games against Miami. I don't give a fuck how well Hunter is defending Dwyane Wade you dumbshit.)

There you have it. I hate the Pistons head coach. The season has officially started.

A new Argentina!
The chains of the masses untied!
A new Argentina!
The voice of the people cannot be denied!

AND MUST...NOT...BE...DENIED!!!!!!!

(And did anyone else find it humorous that Darko put up 13-7-4 against "Chanukah" Larry the other night?)
Nope. But the fact that people follow their "supposed" beef when both of them kicked rocks is funny as fuck.

At one point in the 4th quarter trailing by 2 Flip had Hunter, Delk, Evans, Mcdyess and Sheed on the floor against a heat lineup that consisted of Shaq, wade, walker and williams.

In that stretch Evans missed consecutive shots, Hunter made a shot, Delk missed, Sheed got to the free throw line and missed both, Hunter missed and Evans missed again. Sheed only 1 shot? Mcdyess?

We as pistons fans should not be subjected to a lineup like this mid-way through the 4th quarter in a big game. Good thing the heat were playing their 4th in 5 nights or the pistons lose. Big.

Flip did this in Minnesota he's doing that here. He's not a good coach. Rip and Chauncey should never be out of the game at the same time ever.

i think us playing defense had more to do with it than anything yargs. and cbill coming back in later than usual was a reflection of hunter playing great defense out there. if the game became troublesome with hunter in billups woulda been in there quicker than a bullet.

but lucky cuzz of something miami did? i doubt it. i wouldnt accept that lame excuse if we lost to them on a 4th game in 5 nights. Either way i hope the defensive identity we got back doesnt leave anytime soon.

Against the top playoff teams the Pistons may face (Spurs, Mavs, Suns, Heat, Pacers, Cavs, and Nets)

Mo Evans
11.4 mpg, 1.5 ppg, 19.6% FG (11 of 56)

Carlos Delfino
11.1 mpg, 2.9 ppg, 35% FG (17 of 49)

Ball Don't Lie!

Mo's supposed "Better" offense seems to only show up against bad teams. Because, as you know, being able to score 15 points against the Bobcats or Hawks is gonna help us in June. [smilie=annoyed.gif]

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060328/SPORTS03/603280321/1051


DREW SHARP: Delfino next victim of numbers game

BY DREW SHARP
FREE PRESS COLUMNIST

March 28, 2006

Just what nobody wants: "Darko II: The Sequel."

But the Pistons better be careful. Their disjointed development of another young player, Carlos Delfino, is beginning to look familiar. It's that same combination of confusion and consternation that bedeviled Darko Milicic during his ill-fated time here.

But Milicic was neither mature enough, nor emotionally resilient enough, to understand that the answer to his problems rested primarily within himself.

"Darko and me are different," Delfino said Monday. "I know that I can't give up if I don't play a lot, but you still want to play to show what you can do. I know I can't get down. I have to keep working and trying to get better. It's hard adjusting to not playing as much as you would like."

Problem is, Pistons coach Flip Saunders has no confidence in Delfino beyond giving him sporadic minutes, and that won't change anytime soon. There's too much at stake, especially for Saunders.

He has to win NOW!

The Darko debacle denied the Pistons a transitional star who could have kept the franchise competing for championships well into the next decade. Now they must squeeze as many titles out of their starting core as possible, and that demands a veteran cast coming off the bench.

"I understand how difficult it might be for Carlos," Saunders said, "because when he comes into the game, he's often replacing an All-Star. But I don't see the same reaction from him as we did with the other guy (Darko), and I think that's where his maturity comes into play."

It's easy falling into a comfort trap when you've got the best starting five the NBA has seen since the glory days of the Boston Celtics in the late 1980s. Saunders likely will have the same starting lineup for the 70th straight game tonight when Dallas arrives for a quasi-critical, regular-season visit.

Antonio McDyess may be playing the best basketball of his career as Saunders' sixth man. Lindsey Hunter, healthy again, has become his trusted graybeard in the backcourt, and newcomer Tony Delk has shown sparks that will undoubtedly earn him valuable minutes come playoff time.

When your objective is winning now, you run at full speed until the tank burns empty. And if the young can't keep pace, they're left behind.

Saunders is no different from Larry Brown in that regard. Flip's immediate predecessor was roundly chastised from those on the outside looking in for not finding sufficient developmental time for Darko.

The popular refrain became, "Would it have killed the team to give him eight to 10 minutes a game?" But the fact that Darko has been consigned to NBA purgatory in Orlando while Delfino rides the bench underscores the first challenge of a championship-contending coach.

The future never rests beyond the upcoming playoffs.

Delfino on Monday compared the adjustment to playing time distributed with an eyedropper to a "slap in the face." But it's up to him whether the inconsistency of his contributions beats him down mentally to the point of no return.

"I know I can play," he said. "I just need the chance to show it."

Darko was a disaster-in-waiting at the outset. He never liked the game, an indifference exposed in his lackadaisical work ethic. But that's not the case with Delfino. He's canned energy and has a borderline-reckless spirit, which, when properly channeled, will serve him well at this level.

But the Pistons' continued success limits the chances of that happening in Detroit. And what do you think will happen to Delfino if Grant Hill comes back and assumes a role off the bench?

Ridiculous, you say?

Hill told the Chicago Tribune on Monday he might entertain a comeback with the Pistons perhaps as early as next season should Orlando cut him loose despite owing him $18 million next season. Any new team could then sign Hill for the league minimum.

Such possibilities only further diminish Delfino's chances with the Pistons, but that's become the price of contention.

Contact DREW SHARP at 313-223-4055 or dsharp@freepress.com.

"I understand how difficult it might be for Carlos," Saunders said, "because when he comes into the game, he's often replacing an All-Star. But I don't see the same reaction from him as we did with the other guy (Darko), and I think that's where his maturity comes into play."



LMMFAO

"I understand how difficult it might be for Carlos," Saunders said, "because when he comes into the game, he's often replacing an All-Star. But I don't see the same reaction from him as we did with the other guy (Darko), and I think that's where his maturity comes into play."



LMMFAO

Indeed, I think we should TM that and maybe add it to the word filter.

Delfino on Monday compared the adjustment to playing time distributed with an eyedropper to a "slap in the face." But it's up to him whether the inconsistency of his contributions beats him down mentally to the point of no return.

That doesn't sound good to me. Flip's excuse will be win at all costs - especially with him wanting his first title sorta deal. Delfino is very solid defensively, however his offense has disappeared. I'm wondering if like Darko, he's trying to be too perfect offensively and overthinking the game sorta deal in an attempt to wrest more playing time. Kid might need to go somewhere and just ball sorta deal.

Delfino on Monday compared the adjustment to playing time distributed with an eyedropper to a "slap in the face." But it's up to him whether the inconsistency of his contributions beats him down mentally to the point of no return.

That doesn't sound good to me. Flip's excuse will be win at all costs - especially with him wanting his first title sorta deal. Delfino is very solid defensively, however his offense has disappeared. I'm wondering if like Darko, he's trying to be too perfect offensively and overthinking the game sorta deal in an attempt to wrest more playing time. Kid might need to go somewhere and just ball sorta deal.
no he's doing nothing like darko. darko tried to fail on purpose and was a lil' brat. different scenario.

Delfino is very solid defensively, however his offense has disappeared.

I still don't see how a players offense can "disappear" when they only get 2 shots a game and 6-10 minutes a game if they're lucky. If Tayshaun was pulled every time he missed his first shot or two, he wouldn't be playing a whole lot. Same thing with Chauncey. It usually takes them getting to the Free throw line or getting a layup to get it going. If he's only in the game for a few minutes, that isn't going to happen very often.

Look at what happend with Darko. He shot in the 30% range while in Detroit because he only touched the ball a couple times when he was in the game. He's a 55.4% shooter in Orlando and he averages the same PPG as Dice in the same minutes now that he averages over 6 shots a game and is in the game long enough to get something easy to get him going.

There aren't many players out there that can come into the game for only a few minutes and take very few shots, yet still be very consistant shooting the ball, and shoot a high percentage. Especially if everytime they shoot they have the pressure of "if I miss I'll be benched". What he needs is 15-20 minutes, a few plays run for him (going toward the rim, he's not Rip coming off curls), and the offense will definately come around.

Delfino seems to be getting more run lately. He needs to show something soon or else i see alot on DNP-CDs in his future.

PS: I dislike Mo Evans so much...it actually pains me to see hims lill tard face on the court.

How can Sharp write an article about Delfino's playing time without mentioning Maurice Evans at all?

By the way, I fully expect Delfino to go back to the bench for Evans given what happened last game. Delfino didn't give us anything offensively, missing two open shots (though his man, Salmons, didn't score) and Evans had a strong putback dunk (though Korver hit two 3 pointers right in his face). Flip will judge purely by offensive production and Evans is back into the regular rotation. Delfino will have to wait another 10 games to prove himself again. So sad.

By the way, I fully expect Delfino to go back to the bench for Evans given what happened last game. Delfino didn't give us anything offensively, missing two open shots (though his man, Salmons, didn't score) and Evans had a strong putback dunk (though Korver hit two 3 pointers right in his face). Flip will judge purely by offensive production and Evans is back into the regular rotation. Delfino will have to wait another 10 games to prove himself again. So sad.
delk did just the same. and a put back dunk and a tip rebound arent enough to get Evans back in IMO. but who knows with Flip. If evans plays and gives up another personal 10 point spurt like in the dallas game. i wont know what to say.

By the way, I fully expect Delfino to go back to the bench for Evans given what happened last game. Delfino didn't give us anything offensively, missing two open shots (though his man, Salmons, didn't score) and Evans had a strong putback dunk (though Korver hit two 3 pointers right in his face). Flip will judge purely by offensive production and Evans is back into the regular rotation. Delfino will have to wait another 10 games to prove himself again. So sad.

Sadly, I agree. I really wish Carlos would get that jumper more consistant (even though it's about on par with Tayshaun's). I get the feeling that if he could knock down a consistant amount of his open shots this wouldn't be an issue. It's not like Mo's jumpers is great or consistant either, but he tends to have a few good games against bad teams that Flip seems to latch on to.

I think this whole act of giving them 5-6 minutes each is not going to work for either player. We need 1 player to backup both Rip and Tayshaun for about 20 minutes a game. Splitting it up between 3-4 players just robs them of a chance to get into a rhythm and actually make an impact. The only player on the bench that seems comfortable in the "Come in and fire away" role is Tony Delk.

It's Delfino's fault for leaving the door open.

If he could knock down a shot, it wouldn't be an issue.

It's Delfino's fault for leaving the door open.

If he could knock down a shot, it wouldn't be an issue.
Door open for what? Evans is garbage. And maybe delk should eat the bench to since we are using this lame theory. his numbers were identical to delfino's last night with one more turnover in more minutes. [smilie=annoyed.gif] So the door is open there too?

Try pushing this when the guy behind delfino isnt puke garbage like evans.

Nobody's going to argue that Mo hasn't been garbage too.

Delfino is giving Flip reasons to take him back out of the rotation. If you can't see that you're just blind.

3 out of every 4 games, Delfino's jumper is broke, he can't score going to the basket, and he can't even hit FTs.

Nobody's going to argue that Mo hasn't been garbage too.

Delfino is giving Flip reasons to take him back out of the rotation. If you can't see that you're just blind.

3 out of every 4 games, Delfino's jumper is broke, he can't score going to the basket, and he can't even hit FTs.
so is delk giving him reasons too? lindsey put up 9 points. delk put up zero.

once again this goes back to overall value. our points off turnovers are points right? he gets deflections, plays defense, crashes the boards, and passes with pretty solid vision on the court. Delk just shoots jumpers(his finishing on drives sucks), evans plays no defense and sucks honestly on both ends against the upper echelon of the league. but im not saying its delfino vs delk or even evans for that matter.

im saying he's been solid overall and you just measure him by whether he hit his jumper still. but thats all you ever look at so you'll never fairly judge anyone on this team.

i mean damn you were actually mad that we were going inside more in that dallas game because of the misses. but our rebounding went up with less long rebounds to chase. you cant judge everything on jumpers just because you like to shoot them yourself. Sometimes i wonder if tim legler logs on as kstat in his off time. [smilie=anxious.gif]

delk did just the same.
But Delk isn't being held onto by a two-foot leash.

I'm sure that has a TON to do with Delfino's recent struggles. A guy like Delk knows he can just go out there and play, not worry about his minutes, just be ready to shoot.

But Delfino goes out there knowing that if he doesn't play his best game there is a chance he could get benched for Evans. When I watch Delfino warm up, he doesn't miss a shot.

And again, I wouldn't have trouble with Delfino being benched if the guy we brought in for him was good. I'll face it, Delfino has struggled. But Mo Evans is not good. A put back dunk is pretty much all he can do. LOL@Fred McLeod, "Evans got his hand on that rebound!" When he just tipped it to the other team. I'm really starting to think that maybe we should have tried to add Jim Jackson here. He would give us stability at that position.

Lindsey and Delk are the backup guards. That's pretty much set in stone. Their performances don't matter in this discussion, because they have nothing to do with Delfino getting or not getting minutes.

It's between Delfino and Mo for the backup SF job. RIght now Delfino is refusing to win the job, even though he's being given every opportunity Period.

Now, you can cry and complain all you want that Delk hasn't outplayed Delfino (which he has), but Delk has done enough to win his spot in the rotation. Delfino has yet to do that.

Now, you can cry and complain all you want that Delk hasn't outplayed Delfino (which he has), but Delk has done enough to win his spot in the rotation. Delfino has yet to do that.
ok tim legler. Delk won his spot from who? get the fuck outta here. theres no one behind him. its not set in stone. its set by default. big difference.

once again, i said it over and over. delfino has by far outplayed evans overall. but tim kstat legler only looks at jumpers made. thus he'll never get it. in your idea of efficient gameplanning, we run and shoot against every team in the team only taking jumpers. we never set up plays inside unless sheed weighs more than the other guy. and we'd probally bench ben wallace. [smilie=arnold.gif]

When the best thing you can say about a player is that he's better than Mo Evans, you're really not saying much.

And Delk took his spot by putting the ball in the basket, something this team needed off the bench after Dice. Hunter, Mo, and Delfino sure were not capable of that role.

The bench needed a guy to spread the floor, and Delk has done that by consistently making the defense pay for sagging in the paint. It's also allowed McDyess a lot more freedom to expand his game in the low post.

Sure I'd love Delfino to stay as Tay's backup, but I'd also like to see him make a shot when he's left wide the fuck open, which happens constantly because nobody respects his offense.

It's between Delfino and Mo for the backup SF job. RIght now Delfino is refusing to win the job, even though he's being given every opportunity Period.

What opportunity are you talking about?

If playing 4 minutes a game and then not playing for the next 8 games is considered an opportunity, then I can certainly see why Delfino hasn't been able to claim that backup SF spot as his.

Give him 20 minutes a game for 5 straight games and see what he can do. If Flip still has reasons to take him out of the rotation after that, then so be it.


Now, you can cry and complain all you want that Delk hasn't outplayed Delfino (which he has), but Delk has done enough to win his spot in the rotation. Delfino has yet to do that.

This isn't about Delk vs Delfino.

What Gutz was saying (atleast what I think he was saying) was that Hunter scored 9 points while Delk didn't score any. Does that mean Delk is going to be benched now, since Flip seems to judge players purely by offensive production?

I suppose this is what Drew Sharp meant when he called Delfino "the new Darko".

This sounds like the exact same conversation.

I suppose this is what Drew Sharp meant when he called Delfino "the new Darko".

This sounds like the exact same conversation.
Sharp is kilo on acid. He doesnt count for much.

Once again Darko actually did nothing and did NOT work hard. Darkko earned his time on the bench. Probally on purpose at that.

Lastly elden canmpbell and dale davis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Mo evans.

I just hope Carlos doesn't get frustrated with the no calls to the point where he stops going to the rim entirely. Eventually they'll have to call these. If the whack to the face isn't a foul, then the push in the back is.

http://espn-i.starwave.com/media/apphoto/PXC10403300222.jpg

And no, Carlos isn't a great shooter. He's not going to hit every open shot (especially with shit for confidence), but neither does Tayshaun. Neither does Ben Wallace. Neither does Lindsey Hunter. You don't have to be a great shooter to contribute to this team. But if you're looking for someone to make an impact, they need to play 15-20 minutes.

Delfino has looked a bit listless on offense, bricking shots. I think he's lost that offensive energy, though i still like his D. I'm pretty sure we're going down the Arroyo/Darko/Memo path for him, he's probably already stuck in the "it doesn't matter how good i play, i'm never getting minutes because of who's ahead of me" phase.
he'll end up either traded or bolting when he gets the chance, and he'll play very well for a less talented team. You'll see his energy level skyrocket higher than it ever was for us.

as a team we are not very good at developing talent, we kind of have to bring them in already developed, like Dice or Delk. Tay was really the only player we've developed on our own that's helped us. Even that wasn't really development, Tay came in good and played good the first real significant minutes he got in the playoffs. I really don't think you can develop players with 5-10 minutes a game. It's going to be interesting to see what kind of lineup we have the mighty 5 eventually start to fracture or slip or someone leaves.

From Joanne C. Gerstner's Game Notes.


The suggestion box is closed: A borderline obnoxious Pistons fan located behind the home bench, yelled at Saunders in the first quarter, telling him to play Carlos Delfino . Saunders fired back, with a glare, "Why don't you shut up!".

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060405/SPORTS0102/604050413/1127

Flip finally shows some balls. Go Flip!

Yea telling off obnoxious fans takes some big brass ones. [smilie=applause.gi:
not really

It's not much but it's the first time he's stood up to anyone this year.

It's not much but it's the first time he's stood up to anyone this year.

Not true.

He stands up to his barber every time he tries to convince Flip to shed the mullet.

It's not much but it's the first time he's stood up to anyone this year.
thats unfair. he's fired back at everyone whose said something "directly" towards him. that doesnt happen as often as one might think though. But he's kissing sheeds ass from the jump so he doesnt have to stand up to him. [smilie=angel.gif]

Will Carlos be the Tayshaun that slipped away?

Tayshaun's rookie year (23 yrs old): 10.4mpg, 3.3ppg, 1.1rpg, 0.6 apg, 0.24 spg, 0.50 TOpg
Delfino this year (23 years old): 10.3mpg, 3.2ppg, 1.6rpg, 0.7apg, 0.25 spg, 0.48 TOpg

It wasn't untill Tayshaun saw big minutes in the playoffs that he was looked at as anything more than a fringe rotation player.

Will Carlos be the Tayshaun that slipped away?

Tayshaun's rookie year (23 yrs old): 10.4mpg, 3.3ppg, 1.1rpg, 0.6 apg, 0.24 spg, 0.50 TOpg
Delfino this year (23 years old): 10.3mpg, 3.2ppg, 1.6rpg, 0.7apg, 0.25 spg, 0.48 TOpg

It wasn't untill Tayshaun saw big minutes in the playoffs that he was looked at as anything more than a fringe rotation player.


thats just eerie

Agreed. That's crazy shit.

It wasn't untill Tayshaun saw big minutes in the playoffs that he was looked at as anything more than a fringe rotation player.

That is 100% false. Everytime Tay touched the court he looked 1,000,000,000x better than the piece of shit Prick had starting.

Will Carlos be the Tayshaun that slipped away?

Tayshaun's rookie year (23 yrs old): 10.4mpg, 3.3ppg, 1.1rpg, 0.6 apg, 0.24 spg, 0.50 TOpg
Delfino this year (23 years old): 10.3mpg, 3.2ppg, 1.6rpg, 0.7apg, 0.25 spg, 0.48 TOpg

It wasn't untill Tayshaun saw big minutes in the playoffs that he was looked at as anything more than a fringe rotation player.


thats just eerie

well heres the more eerie part

The guy ahead of tayshan

games78 games started 77 mpg19.9 fg%.402 3P%.296 FT%.800 RPG 1.60 Apg1.3 SPG.56 BPG.05 PPG3.0

Would he have gotten time if someone else filled this roll ahead of him?

Will Carlos be the Tayshaun that slipped away?

Tayshaun's rookie year (23 yrs old): 10.4mpg, 3.3ppg, 1.1rpg, 0.6 apg, 0.24 spg, 0.50 TOpg
Delfino this year (23 years old): 10.3mpg, 3.2ppg, 1.6rpg, 0.7apg, 0.25 spg, 0.48 TOpg

It wasn't untill Tayshaun saw big minutes in the playoffs that he was looked at as anything more than a fringe rotation player.

Holy crap, you gotta be kidding