Okay I tried to let it go, but thinking about Michigan's loss yesterday to a BAD Minnesota team just keeps making me angrier and angrier. They needed one win to make it to the NCAAs, but they couldn't get that against a struggling Indiana team with a coach that had one foot out the door and a terrible Minnesota team.

Let me make a bold statement here: Michigan has as much TALENT as anyone in the Big Eleven. The problem isn't talent, however - it's stupidity. They are the dumbest group of players in the conference. They turn the ball over constantly, take bad shots, and don't know the basics of the game... and they are a bunch of choke-artists. There's only one person that can take the blame for that: Tommy Amaker.

This guy needs to be let go before the NIT (WOO! THE NIT!) starts. He was known as a great recruiter, but after 5 years at U of M, they are still in the same place that they were when Ellerby was here. There has been no change, except that now they get our hopes up. It's time to move on.

So here it is: F - U Michigan, and more appropriately F - U Tommy Amaker. Can Michigan fans just erase the 2005-2006 school year from our memories and the record books?

For Michigan fans, the troubling this is that next year is going to be even MORE of the same. They lose their best ball handler, best scorer, best rebounder and best post defender.

DeShawn Sims better be an immediate stud or else it's going to be a lonnng season.

Exactly how I feel, JTT. THIS was the year to win. Next year will be depressing, guaranteed.

Jack is right. The future isn't bright. Wait until decommit time comes.

The future is just fine for Michigan. You're acting like we've been a tounrey team for years and we're falling. That's not the case. We haven't been to the tounrey and while we're losing some talented players and a lot of size, we've gots guys coming back and it's hard to be much worse than some of the recent Michigan teams.
This is a team that, in spite of some big wins this year, lost 7 of their last 10, and 13 of their last 14 the year before that. How are they going to be much worse? They'll be worse than the top 5 or 6 teams and better than the bottom 3 or 4 again regardless. They'll be status quo. If a few project players turn out they'll be a bit better and might push for the tourney.
I know it's not impressive to many people, but next year will feature a starting lineup of:
Dion Harris
Lester Abram
DeShawn Sims
Brent Petway
Courtney Sims
with Smith, Sheppard, Morris and Price coming off the bench. Several teams aren't scared of that, but it will get 10 or so wins before Big Ten play and 6 or more in Big Ten play. Considering that Michigan won only 13 games a year ago, that's not a big step backward. They certainly need a big body in 2007 and they're still trying to get one for 2006. If they can pull that off, they'll be right in that same range of at least 15-16 wins for the next 3 years or so. They can't be worse, but they might be better. While we would love to be a tourney team, we'll take mediocrity over falling apart.

Jack is right. The future isn't bright. Wait until decommit time comes.

What is that supposed to mean? Did you get some more "inside info" from your "boy" in Denver? LOL. [smilie=hahaha.gif] If you're talking about Sims or Legion it's not gonna happen. Sims is already signed and Legion recently said his commitment is rock solid and will be at Michigan as long as Tommy Amaker is there, even if he transfers to Oak Hill.

Some bracketologist on ESPN said he switched Michigan with Florida State as the last team in. I'm sorry, but Florida fucking State? At least put a team over us that has quality wins like Seton Hall.

I think our tourney chances look good.

Some bracketologist on ESPN said he switched Michigan with Florida State as the last team in. I'm sorry, but Florida fucking State? At least put a team over us that has quality wins like Seton Hall.

I think our tourney chances look good.

Lunardi has been 64/65 the last few years, your game could be the one off, but don't expect him to be wrong.

The whole Florida State vs Michigan thing is an interesting debate.

Michigan has more quality wins, IMO, but Florida State has a huge win over the #1 team in the country 10 days ago.

Florida State has been right in it with a lot of the teams they've lost to, losing to Duke, North Carolina and Boston College by a combined 5 points.

The biggest thing going for Florida State? 6-4 in their last 10, compared to 3-7 for Michigan. Whether it's right or not, that's a big deal for the selection committee.

Still, any time something like this is left to the opinion of some guys in a room, it's kind of a joke.

Either way, these aren't two teams that are going to challenge for the national championship if they do get in, so they wouldn't exactly be getting robbed. They robbed themselves with stupid mistakes in a number of games.

If I had a choice between FSU and UM, it would would be FSU no doubt. Stayed close with BC and UNC, lost to Duke by 1 AT CAMERON and beat them by 4 at home. UM, good beating MSU, but losing to Purdue and Minny is not going to help them any.

The future is just fine for Michigan. You're acting like we've been a tounrey team for years and we're falling. That's not the case. We haven't been to the tounrey and while we're losing some talented players and a lot of size, we've gots guys coming back and it's hard to be much worse than some of the recent Michigan teams.


So a continuation of mediocrity is just fine? I'm not sure I understand that from a brand name school such as Michigan. Amaker has cleaned up the program and it's time for the next step. Your indifference actually surprises me. As a MSU football fan I understand the letdowns of unmet expectations and constant dissapointment. Personally, I would not and am not fine with such trends continuing. Personally I don't see Amaker surviving next year unless Michigan is so intent on getting Legion onto their team they don't want to risk losing him by letting Amaker go.

I'm saying mediocrity is better than getting worse. If I had to take 68 wins from this program over the next 4 years versus 52 wins, I'll take 68. Of course I would rather get 80 or more, but in college hoops it's better to stay the same than to get worse.

Jethro, it's hard to get worse when you haven't been in the NCAA tournament since 97!


DrTre11 wrote:
Jack is right. The future isn't bright. Wait until decommit time comes.


What is that supposed to mean? Did you get some more "inside info" from your "boy" in Denver? LOL. If you're talking about Sims or Legion it's not gonna happen. Sims is already signed and Legion recently said his commitment is rock solid and will be at Michigan as long as Tommy Amaker is there, even if he transfers to Oak Hill.

What I mean is that Michigan is going on a decade without being in the Top 65 teams in the country. [smilie=great.gif] Therefore, what do they have to offer to recruits? On top of that, while Sims and Legion say they are solid right now, what happens if Tommy gets fired? Why the hell would a 5 Star recruit go to a program with absolutely no success in the past decade and very few players sent to the NBA?

If they do go, it makes ya wonder if the wallets are coming back out.

Ok Tre, now you're just talking out of your ass.

First of all, the best 65 teams in the country? You've got to be kidding me! If you think that the joke teams in the "play-in" game could make it out of the first round of the NIT even, you're kidding youself. There are 34 at-large bids and about 10 of the other bids are legit teams. So don't pull your 65 teams crap because it's just that.

Second, the team two years ago would have been a lock had they not imposed a postseason ban. You must take that into consideration. They've had years when they were good enough, but politics and past stupidity blocked the way. Had that group gone to the tourney, with this year's seniors as sophomores then, the current group would have been better off for it and would have gotten into the tourney. It's merely speculation, but it's a very good argument, especially considering how close they were to making it this year.

So go off and enjoy your cake-walk bracket, but wait a while until you get knocked out to come and piss on Michigan, will ya?

You ever notice that no matter how intelligent the conversation is and how calm it is, Tre will always bust in and spout off about how terrible Michigan is, no matter what the actual conversation is about? I think every other State fan, including Steve, has said something constructive about Michigan before, but I don't believe that's the case with Tre.

Jethro, you know Tre. Does he just sit in the room when you're hanging out waiting for you to mention the words "University of Michigan" so he can then go off on a rant about how terrible that school is?

Actually, Tre and I don';t argue Michigan vs Michigan State too much in person. I think it would be bad for our friendship if we did. To be honest, he bought my daughter Michigan shoes when she was born and I made him a Michigan State tribute to last season for Christmas, so we're very civil with each other in what I would call real life. WTF, on the other hand, is no holds barred. We joke about how if one of us took something from here personally from the other guy that it would be a mess. This is where we come to say all the stuff we can't say in person. You'll also see a ton of inside jokes between me, Tre, Moodini, Wizzle and occasionally Filly Cheese (who I barely know but they all went to school with).

You ever notice that no matter how intelligent the conversation is and how calm it is, Tre will always bust in and spout off about how terrible Michigan is, no matter what the actual conversation is about? I think every other State fan, including Steve, has said something constructive about Michigan before, but I don't believe that's the case with Tre.

Jethro, you know Tre. Does he just sit in the room when you're hanging out waiting for you to mention the words "University of Michigan" so he can then go off on a rant about how terrible that school is?

I've said plenty of constructive things about UM. Visit the threads more than once a month and you'll see that this is true. Go through the UM Basketball thread from the beginning and you'll see that I've carried conversations about UM without trash talk. I spout off when it is initiated and it was intiated earlier today in another thread.

Don't say things if you can't back them up.

While I would agree with you that you have said constructive things, I would not say that you ONLY spout off when it's initiated. You've done some initiating of your own as well. Actually, a lot of it has been going on so long it's hard to tell who originally initiated it.

I would agree to that. [smilie=burgerking.:

You ever notice that no matter how intelligent the conversation is and how calm it is, Tre will always bust in and spout off about how terrible Michigan is, no matter what the actual conversation is about? I think every other State fan, including Steve, has said something constructive about Michigan before, but I don't believe that's the case with Tre.

[smilie=applause.gi: Agreed. Now the whole state gets to see what I got to look forward to every time I visited our fantasy football message board for the last 10 years. [smilie=help.gif]


Jethro, you know Tre. Does he just sit in the room when you're hanging out waiting for you to mention the words "University of Michigan" so he can then go off on a rant about how terrible that school is?

Nope. Not anymore. He's moved on to message boards. But back in the old days we would go at it in person. Many sleepovers were ruined due to Michigan and Michigan State trash talk. LOL. [smilie=argue.gif]

MoTown wrote:
You ever notice that no matter how intelligent the conversation is and how calm it is, Tre will always bust in and spout off about how terrible Michigan is, no matter what the actual conversation is about? I think every other State fan, including Steve, has said something constructive about Michigan before, but I don't believe that's the case with Tre.


Moodini wrote: Agreed. Now the whole state gets to see what I got to look forward to every time I visited our fantasy football message board for the last 10 years.

I think it's funny when UM fans get pissed about a State fan spouting off. Like they do any different. Let me search through the threads for MoTown and Moodini constructive responses about Michigan State. I'll be back in a few hours when I find one.

MoTown wrote:
You ever notice that no matter how intelligent the conversation is and how calm it is, Tre will always bust in and spout off about how terrible Michigan is, no matter what the actual conversation is about? I think every other State fan, including Steve, has said something constructive about Michigan before, but I don't believe that's the case with Tre.


Moodini wrote: Agreed. Now the whole state gets to see what I got to look forward to every time I visited our fantasy football message board for the last 10 years.

I think it's funny when UM fans get pissed about a State fan spouting off. Like they do any different. Let me search through the threads for MoTown and Moodini constructive responses about Michigan State. I'll be back in a few hours when I find one.

No go ahead - if you can find one SINGLE post I have where I just make a lame-ass comment that is obviously biased, let me know. To be honest, I think that the whole Michigan vs. Michigan State argument is ridiculous. Are you going to convince me that MSU is better than U of M? Never. Am I going to convince you that Michigan is better than MSU? Of course not. So what is the point of arguing? That's something I did in elementary school and junior high.

The negative comment I will make about MSU is about their fans, never about the school.

Exactly, this is a message board. What do you expect? If you want to visit a message board and not read anything bad about UM, then you ought to go to mlive and click on um forum.

We are going to have good conversations, but there is going to be trash talk too. Get used to it.

I'm not saying it's something you shouldn't take part of - I just think it's counterproductive. I come here because I can get better information about U of M that I can get from M Live. I didn't say you shouldn't trash talk - I just said I PROBABLY won't join in.

Okay, back on topic. A big F-U to Michigan. [smilie=cheers.gif]

U-M still has the premire post scorer in the big 10, and some good shooters to surround him with.

Unfortunately, U-M's coach blows.

If they can stay injury-free next year, they should have a 50/50 shot at making the tournament. They still have some talent, albeit not the depth.

U-M still has the premire post scorer in the big 10, and some good shooters to surround him with.

Unfortunately, U-M's coach blows.

If they can stay injury-free next year, they should have a 50/50 shot at making the tournament. They still have some talent, albeit not the depth.

WTF? Premier post scorer in the Big Ten? Who are you talking about, Sims?

U-M still has the premire post scorer in the big 10, and some good shooters to surround him with.
wow, that's a stretch at best.

I'm a Michigan slappy and even I'll agree that you're stretching there.

Is Sims capable, of course. He's had some great games this season. But he's also had plenty of absolutely horrible games.

He has improved every year so far (so much for Amaker not improving his players) but he needs to be A LOT more consistant.

He put up 33 and 13, but 2 games later only 6 and 7.
He put up 22 and 13, but the next game only 5 and 1.
He put up 26 and 16, but the next game only 7 and 3.

He had 5 games of 20+ points.
He had 9 games of 5 or less points.

Yeah, he's got talent, but until he can learn to show up for 25 or more games in a season, he'll be a disappointment. Next year he'll have to learn how to stay out of foul trouble, because if he can he'll certainly get 30-some minutes per game and, without Horton, Hunter and Brown, he'll have a lot of scoring and rebounding slack to pick up.

I think he could average 15 and 8 next year almost automatically, given those minutes. However, Michigan will need him to average 16-17 and 9-10, and that's where offseason improvement comes in.

If he can get 10 shots per game and maintain his 63% FG%, plus get to the line 4-6 times each game, I'll eat my words and give him some consideration as ONE of the Big Ten's best inside threats.

I don't like Sims one bit, but I think he should have a great senior year because all of the great post players in the BT will be gone.
-Davis
-Killingsworth
-Iowa boys
-Augustine
-Dials
But, there are far more Amaker products that don't get better than products that do get better.