I have always thought, that out of our starting 5, Prince may be the most versitle, and balanced as a player. He can do it all;

Shoot the three, post-up, defend 4 positions, hit the mid-ranger, and and always, play damn good defense. He may also be the player with the most natural gifts(Well-rounded) within the starting 5.

After having stated that, you may be wondering why even bring up the question as stated in the topic.

One simple word;

Passion.

Prince, among the starters plays with the least emotion out on the floor, and doesn't play with the same passion, and fire the others do, on a night in, and night out basis. He often(This is not a single game analysist) "floats" on the perimiter on the offensive end of the floor, not moving much, thus stalling the offense. On the defensive end of the floor, he will also "take a play off" when he gets switched onto someone other then his own man. I've noticed this much more then last season.

I bring up Nocioni because he brings a passion so strong, it's a wonder he doesn't get tossed out of games becuase of his physical, and sometimes downright insane play-style. He crashes the boards, goes to the hole, and generally goes after the ball like his life depends on it.


He is the player, more then any other in the league, that I LOVE to hate. What I mean by that, is that I hate him becuase he's not in a Pistons uniform. I LOVE the guys energy level, and fierce level of emotion brought to every play. Something that Prince lacks.

My question is two-fold;

1.)Would you trade Prince for Nocioni

2.)Do you think he would fit right in with this group.

My answer is obvious.


P.S. I LOVE THE SIG. IT IS FLAT-OUT AMAZING.

I don't want to have anyone from the Bulls. Period.

Nocioni strikes me as one of those guys that I would love if he was on our team, and since he's on the bulls, everytime I hear his fucking name, I wanna run though the screen. Thats actually a good question. But to tell you the truth, prince does his damage in the playoffs (well 1st round), and I have yet to see Nocioni in the playoffs, so i'd hold off.

If we trade Prince, I wanna go big game hunting. Besides I think Nocioni is more of a Corliss Williamson-type, better coming off the bench and creating a mismatch. We wouldn't have a starter, as both Evans and especially Delfino are SG's. I might consider if just to get out from under Tayshauns ugly contract though - what does Nocioni's deal look like?? Maybe we could use the MLE to bring in a starting SF, and use Nocioni off the bench sorta deal...

I like Nocioni a lot. The guy always leave it all out on the court, and I can appreciate that. One thing is certain. We'd have the most hated Forward duo in the league.

His deal is over after next year, BTW. But he's a restrictred FA, so we've really got no shot.

I like Nocioni a lot. The guy always leave it all out on the court, and I can appreciate that. One thing is certain. We'd have the most hated Forward duo in the league.

His deal is over after next year, BTW. But he's a restrictred FA, so we've really got no shot.
i dont know. i feel he has alot of heart but plays a lil' too wild at times. But he's also a cheap shot artist. that doesnt rub me all that well to add that to our team.

prince has become quite underrated on this board.

prince doesnt play with emotion... (directed towards zeeb) what about memo?

whether prince plays with emotion is up for debate, but i think is more accurate is to say that he always plays with a level head.

outside of billups, maybe even including billups, what piston has made more big plays for the pistons in the last three years?

what piston has dominated an entire series like prince in the last three years (i count three series, orlando, philly, and milwaukee as series completely belonging to tay), as well as some unbelievable D on kobe bryant.

then there was that ~ 2 month stretch last year during the reg. season that tay was our best player game in/game out.

tay hasnt been quite the same as in years past. coaching? floating? worn out? too high of expectations? being taken for granted?

i dont know. i do know tay should not be criticized until he lets us down in the playoffs.

I wouldn't want to trade Prince for him but I agree with Anthony's thoughts pretty much to a t. I love the way Nocioni plays but since he's on the Bulls I fucking hate him with a passion.

I don't want to have anyone from the Bulls. Period.

I think Ben Gordon could be Vinnie Johnson 2.

I agree with Anthony.

I dont think I have seen Nocioni do anything in the playoffs. He's got good all around game, a good 3point shot and not bad from the free throw line. What I dont know is his defense. I havent really seen any bulls game so I cnat comment on his D

At this point, it wouldn't take too much for me to trade Prince.

Carlos Delfino replaced him, scored only 2 points, and was the reason we won the game last night (not just my opinion - see Detroit News AND Detroit Free Press). How pathetic is that for Tay? That the only reason we won last night is that he was replaced by someone who scored only 2 points?

If we trade Prince, I wanna go big game hunting. Besides I think Nocioni is more of a Corliss Williamson-type, better coming off the bench and creating a mismatch. We wouldn't have a starter, as both Evans and especially Delfino are SG's. I might consider if just to get out from under Tayshauns ugly contract though - what does Nocioni's deal look like?? Maybe we could use the MLE to bring in a starting SF, and use Nocioni off the bench sorta deal...I've thought about that as well. We may be able to get a premiere SF if we bundle Prince with some of the young guys. (Lewis is awesome).


I just love Noc's passion though.


B-diddy, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, DONT BRING UP MEMO. Not in my first thread bro. PLEASE.

As for your points, all valid, no debate. I was just exploring an option, one that I liked, and wanted to see what the peers thought. Nothing more, nothing less.

Prince is a big-game performer, and has done big things.

I just want the Prince that signed the contract, not this Prince who floats alot. Tht's all.

Zeeb, I think the Orlando 2oo7 pick will be a HUGE chip for us, if we wanted to move Tayshaun Prince. Rashard Lewis would be another solid target, however he is a free-agent after next season and teams sheding salary for the King James, Bosh, Wade restricted off-season could have to settle for the unrestricted big fish in Lewis when the 2003 draft class re-sign this off-season.

Maybe Utah's owner was just spouting off, but I'd see how serious he was about trading the whole team, as Prince is a Jerry Sloan type player.

I don't know why everyone is so eager to dump Prince. He has been slumping the past couple of weeks but so what. As long as he steps it up during the playoffs i'm just fine with keeping him. You all seem to forget how this team thrives when big defensive plays are made and Tayshaun is still known for his unbelieveable come form behind blocks. It gives the Pistons a big boost on the floor and he fits our team chemistry perfectly. That is something that i'm not ready to mess with for a guy known for his cheap shots and flops.

I don't know why everyone is so eager to dump Prince. He has been slumping the past couple of weeks but so what. As long as he steps it up during the playoffs i'm just fine with keeping him. You all seem to forget how this team thrives when big defensive plays are made and Tayshaun is still known for his unbelieveable come form behind blocks. It gives the Pistons a big boost on the floor and he fits our team chemistry perfectly. That is something that i'm not ready to mess with for a guy known for his cheap shots and flops.

couple of weeks? not so much. He has been bad all year with a decent game thrown in once a month, if that. "Slumps" rarely include a lack of all of the old hustle stuff (which is why his rebounds, blocks, assists, etc are drastically down). Usually a "slump" is a week or two long and is when the jumpshot just isn't falling. The effort aspects of the game shouldn't be affected as badly as they are. If you're expecting him to all of a sudden "step up in the playoffs", look at last year. He was playing the best ball of his career and then absolutely vanished. We can only talk about "the block" and his rookie breakout for so long.

You just don't give a guy a $48 Million dollar contract and 37 minutes per game for 1 play that happend 2 years ago. If that was the case, then guys like Steve Kerr and Robert Horry would be playing on max contracts right now, not retired and on a 3 million dollar salary respectively.

Don't get me wrong, Tayshaun used to be one of my favorite players, and I was giving him the benefit of the doubt for quite a while. But this is getting ridiculous. He got that contract and absolutely tanked. That type of thing really pisses me off. [smilie=annoyed.gif]

At this point, it wouldn't take too much for me to trade Prince.

Carlos Delfino replaced him, scored only 2 points, and was the reason we won the game last night (not just my opinion - see Detroit News AND Detroit Free Press). How pathetic is that for Tay? That the only reason we won last night is that he was replaced by someone who scored only 2 points?

ill said it in the chat last night delfino = win

Glad that others are seeing that now.

I'd love to have Nocionni off our bench, but I wouldn't trade Prince for him.

we could have drafted him instead of Delfino, so you can talk to Joe on that one. No way I trade Prince for the guy.

we could have drafted him instead of Delfino, so you can talk to Joe on that one. No way I trade Prince for the guy.

Or we could have just signed him as a free agent.

At this point, it wouldn't take too much for me to trade Prince.

Carlos Delfino replaced him, scored only 2 points, and was the reason we won the game last night (not just my opinion - see Detroit News AND Detroit Free Press). How pathetic is that for Tay? That the only reason we won last night is that he was replaced by someone who scored only 2 points?

While the Det News article does single him out as adding energy, the Freep article hardly mentions Deflino. But he definately played well.

Nocioni comes off the bench and it seems like an Argentenian trend to be wreckless and hustle, giving energy as he plays with the motivation to prove himself.

He's a great 6th man until I see more.

But Prince for Nocioni? When Tay really exerts himself the few we all know it pays dividends for us (especially cause he's slumping as of late). We can single out Tay for being a bum lately but truth be told NO ONE on our whole team plays with the same intensity AND for as long as Nocioni does.

Darko must have infected us all.

At this point, it wouldn't take too much for me to trade Prince.

Carlos Delfino replaced him, scored only 2 points, and was the reason we won the game last night (not just my opinion - see Detroit News AND Detroit Free Press). How pathetic is that for Tay? That the only reason we won last night is that he was replaced by someone who scored only 2 points?

While the Det News article does single him out as adding energy, the Freep article hardly mentions Deflino. But he definately played well.

Sorry. It was MLive.

"However, that all changed in the third quarter shortly after Carlos Delfino came into the game following Tayshaun Prince heading to the bench after a knee collision with Chicago's Tyson Chandler on a driving lay-up early in the third.

Delfino played solid defense to go with two points and two steals, helping spark the Pistons to a 68-64 lead going into the fourth quarter which is when Prince returned"

I don't want to have anyone from the Bulls. Period.

I think Ben Gordon could be Vinnie Johnson 2.

Except Ben Gordon never passes the ball. Never.

we could have drafted him instead of Delfino, so you can talk to Joe on that one. No way I trade Prince for the guy.

Or we could have just signed him as a free agent.

We didn't have money, that was the summer gave our loot to McDyess.

There are valid points on both sides of this.


The only thing that is really stuck in my craw is that Prince could be our leading scorer, Prince could be our best post-up player, Prince coud be our best defender, Prince could alot of things, but his energy level, REGARDLESS of what he has done in the PAST, HAS SUCKED ALL YEAR LONG , and it just happens to come after getting PAID.


I'll hold judgment untill the playoffs start, and progress, but i'll say it right now;


If he plays like this during the playoffs, we are SCREWED.

zeebneeb...

You are awesome.

With that said, my guess is Tay has been playing injured. He's been very hesitant to take it to the hole, unlike last season when he was our leading scorer almost every game after the All-Star break.

Maybe he's just a friggin pansy.

I don't want to have anyone from the Bulls. Period.

I think Ben Gordon could be Vinnie Johnson 2.

Except Ben Gordon never passes the ball. Never.

That was an awesome pass to Sheed to end the game last night. [smilie=2thumbsup.g:

I would trade Tayshaun Prince for a ton of guys in the league. Tayshaun is garbage

Maybe he's just a friggin pansy.

Holy shit.

I think pigs are flying.

Diddy chimed into a thread about an american player and an international player - - and called the american the frigging pansy of the bunch.

Tayshaun will be on WDFN at 7 PM. Just sayin.

I guess i'm missing something. Prince is averaging 13.7 ppg vs. 14.7 ppg last season and he's playing fewer minutes. As for the blocks, i'm not talking about the Reggie Miller block. He's done a couple of those this season already and it's always a big boost. As for playing like shit, he's scored 20 or more points 8 times, Averaged 16.1 ppg in Nov., and is still only 1 ppg behind last year. He's not playing all that well but i'm not ready to give up on him yet.

I guess i'm missing something. Prince is averaging 13.7 ppg vs. 14.7 ppg last season and he's playing fewer minutes. As for the blocks, i'm not talking about the Reggie Miller block. He's done a couple of those this season already and it's always a big boost. As for playing like shit, he's scored 20 or more points 8 times, Averaged 16.1 ppg in Nov., and is still only 1 ppg behind last year. He's not playing all that well but i'm not ready to give up on him yet.

November: 49% FG
December: 43% FG
January: 41% FG
February: 39% FG
March: 38% FG

I guess i'm missing something. Prince is averaging 13.7 ppg vs. 14.7 ppg last season and he's playing fewer minutes. As for the blocks, i'm not talking about the Reggie Miller block. He's done a couple of those this season already and it's always a big boost. As for playing like shit, he's scored 20 or more points 8 times, Averaged 16.1 ppg in Nov., and is still only 1 ppg behind last year. He's not playing all that well but i'm not ready to give up on him yet.

November: 49% FG
December: 43% FG
January: 41% FG
February: 39% FG
March: 38% FG

Bingo. He used to be our most effecient offensive player. Now he's the least effecient of the "Starting 6". Not only that but the effort stuff is all down (rebounds, blocks, etc). At the rate he's going he'll be lucky to have an overall FG% above 40%. I can deal with not scoring, but if you aren't going to make your shots, don't take 12-15 of them.

Jeez. This discussion just goes round and round in circles.

What have we established at least 12 times so far?

1. Tay's scoring is only slightly down, although his minutes are also slightly down too. Supporters will point ot the minutes and be content. Detractors will point out that he should be averaging more points than last year in roughly the same amount of minutes, not less, and he's playing just barely less minutes than last year.

2. ALL of Tay's other numbers, rebounds, steals, assists, etc., are also down, as is his hustle, defense, and interest in showing up to play on any given night. Supporters will say he turns it on after the all star break. Detractors will show the supporters a calendar, as well as H1Man's list of shooting pct. by month, and prove that this year, he's been considerably worse since the all star break.

3. He just got a big contract, which we all believe was based on him continuing to "blossom", i.e. not decrease his numbers from year 3 to 4, but INCREASE THEM. Supporters will say its early, detractors will once again point out that its post-all star break, and his game is getting worse, not better.

4. Supporters will say he has to take a backseat to the other four starters. Detractors will say there's only three other starters that play offense (Ben doesn't count) and will further point out that all Tay does is stand out by the 3 point line and watch the other guys play. Its not that he HAS to take a backseat, its that he CHOOSES to sit and watch his teammates on offense, and doesn't even bother to set screens or put his minutes to ANY good use out there, at all on the offensive end.

I agree the FG% is cause for concern. I'm not ready to deal him unless it nets us a better player (Marion, AK47) at his position, but it should be monitored. Clearly Flip needs to find out what is wrong with him. As long as he produces in the playoffs, all will be forgotten.

I agree the FG% is cause for concern. I'm not ready to deal him unless it nets us a better player (Marion, AK47) at his position, but it should be monitored. Clearly Flip needs to find out what is wrong with him. As long as he produces in the playoffs, all will be forgotten.

Tayshaun Prince, Mo Evans and the 2oo7 Orlando first rounder for Andrei Kirilenko.

Chauncey Billups
Richard Hamilton
Andrei Kirilenko
Ben Wallace
Rasheed Wallace

I just busted a nut.

I agree the FG% is cause for concern. I'm not ready to deal him unless it nets us a better player (Marion, AK47) at his position, but it should be monitored. Clearly Flip needs to find out what is wrong with him. As long as he produces in the playoffs, all will be forgotten.

Tayshaun Prince, Mo Evans and the 2oo7 Orlando first rounder for Andrei Kirilenko.

Chauncey Billups
Richard Hamilton
Andrei Kirilenko
Ben Wallace
Rasheed Wallace

I just busted a nut.

lol@teams who would try and drive the lane.

LOL@Utah if they accept that trade

Has anyone considered the fact that Prince might be playing with an undisclosed injury? Teams hide those all of the time to prevent other teams from taking advantage of it.

Has anyone considered the fact that Prince might be playing with an undisclosed injury? Teams hide those all of the time to prevent other teams from taking advantage of it.

If he is injured then why play him 38 minutes a game?

Has anyone considered the fact that Prince might be playing with an undisclosed injury?Yes. That's what I think the problem is.

Then why the hell is he playing? At least limit him to 20-25 minutes. Delfino could use the experience and Tayshaun could obviously use the rest, so I don't get what is so hard to figure out here.

I'll take a healthy prince and no HCA in the Finals over a hobbled prince and HCA in the Finals any day. Especially considering HCA isn't even guaranteed with Tayshaun continuing to play through whatever it is he has.

The injury Prince has is obvious to everyone:

Lackofballs syndrome.