In todays weekend News/Freep, it basically explained Flip's philosophy on three-pointers.

They were discussing the Seattle game where Detroit took 29 three point attempts and questioned if that was a concern to Flip, and he said it wasn't and he wouldn't mind more three point shots if we continued to hit them at our current clip.

His reasoning - we hit 11 of the 29 shots for 33 points(shooting 38%). To get 33 points in the same 29 shots shooting two pointers, we'd have needed to score 16 of 29 or shoot 55%.

I understand the raw numbers of it all, but there is so much more that the raw numbers. Look at our rebounding for example - we probably never get the rebound on missed three pointers because it's Ben Wallace vs all fighting for that rebound when we have four of our guys camped out on the perimeter. Long shots lead to long rebounds and fast break opportunities for the opposition.

Chauncey actually shoots better from behind the arc, but Rasheed should definitely be forced in the low post a helluva lot more than he is. He thinks he's a small forward for crying out loud, and he's shooting putridly from behind the arc. It would make sense to stretch the defense if we had wing players that could put the ball on the floor and attack the basket, but that is not the case here. Rip is a jumpshooter and Chauncey is a long distance bomber - both great at what they do. Tayshaun is a non-entity on the offense - ideally he'd be the attacker in our offense. Watching the game last night I saw Delfino make an attempt, as he rushed the ball up the court, split two defenders high and was one-on-one with their last defender and instead of going hard, he curled away and passed the ball off to Chauncey to run a set play. Mo Evans doesn't have the handled to attack the basket, he's a spot shooter who cannot create his own shot. We're severly lacking such a player - we're a buynch of chuckers who can play defense. We're the 2oo5 PHX Suns, with less offense but more defense. Suns had better shooters in Q-Rich, Joe Johnson, Nash and Marion, but also had Amare Stoudemire as the beast scoring in the low post. We have all chuckers except for Ben Wallaces awkward offense down low.

In todays weekend News/Freep, it basically explained Flip's philosophy on three-pointers.

They were discussing the Seattle game where Detroit took 29 three point attempts and questioned if that was a concern to Flip, and he said it wasn't and he wouldn't mind more three point shots if we continued to hit them at our current clip.

His reasoning - we hit 11 of the 29 shots for 33 points(shooting 38%). To get 33 points in the same 29 shots shooting two pointers, we'd have needed to score 16 of 29 or shoot 55%.


He's sounding more and more like Rick Pitino every day. Seriously, Pitino has been saying the same stuff for years.

I would say that it is severely flawed logic, you saw what that philosophy did for Rick in the NBA.

We have a gimmick offense right now.

I'd rather have us taking jumpers with jumpshooters, than forcing the ball inside with guys that aren't slashers.

I'd rather have us taking jumpers with jumpshooters, than forcing the ball inside with guys that aren't slashers.
tayshan=inside/slaher, Delfino=Slasher, Billups=capable slasher, rasheed=capable post player, ben=four feet from the basket range, dice=capable post player.

how exactly are we "forcing it" inside? we had no problem getting it inside last year and the year before with the same core. in fact, if you scratch out corliss, we were probally an even more jumpshooting team back in the okur year skill wise. its not like hunter, Rip, and evans have to get it inside. but the other guys can and should. not EVERYBODY has to take the jumper. thats the problem.

Its not like we need to punish people for shooting threes. but theres no need to go to the opposite extreme and encourage them to make it a primary shot.

Flip is stupid. The three point line is stupid. They should take it out of basketball.

How can it be ok that your team took 29 3pt shots? How? [smilie=angryfire.g:

I'd rather have us taking jumpers with jumpshooters, than forcing the ball inside with guys that aren't slashers.
tayshan=inside/slaher, Delfino=Slasher, Billups=capable slasher, rasheed=capable post player, ben=four feet from the basket range, dice=capable post player.

Tayshaun- couldnt beat a 10-year old girl off the dribble.
Rip-weighs 75 lbs and isnt a great finisher
Chauncey-once again, average speed. Post PG but that's been taken away by teams playing him with SGs.
Sheed-Great length, but not nearly strong enough to back down half the PFs in the NBA.
Dice-capable post player when FADING AWAY from the basket.

you-homer if you think our players would be better off driving into traffic than taking open shots.


how exactly are we "forcing it" inside? we had no problem getting it inside last year and the year before with the same core.

really? we had no problem getting it inside with our 85ppg offense? Really?

shooting jumpers we score 98ppg, forcing it inside we shot 88ppg.

Yet people want to go back the the same square peg in round hole bullshit. Amazing.


in fact, if you scratch out corliss, we were probally an even more jumpshooting team back in the okur year skill wise.

yeah, and here's a newsflash: we didnt win the title with offense. Our offense had very, VERY little to do with 2004.


Its not like we need to punish people for shooting threes. but theres no need to go to the opposite extreme and encourage them to make it a primary shot

Here's what Flip encourages: If you have the open shot within your range, TAKE IT. How anybody could disagree with that is beyond me.

really? we had no problem getting it inside with our 85ppg offense? Really?

shooting jumpers we score 98ppg, forcing it inside we shot 88ppg.

Yet people want to go back the the same square peg in round hole bullshit. Amazing.

Grinding out 88ppg, getting to the free-throw line and playing lockdown defense won us a championship and got us to game seven of another(admittedly we were already becoming a jumpshooting team last year). I really can't see this team winning a championship. We can win "of" games now because we are more talented, however come the play-offs, especially the conference and league finals, the talent level will be much more equal. When our shots are not falling, we are utterly useless - though some will point to the fact that in a seven game series, our shots will not be falling two maybe three games at most. However later inthe play-offs the other good teams will be able to beat us even when we are shooting well, and will trounce us when we can't hit the broad side of a barn.

Kstat our scoring is up because we shoot shots earlier in the shot clock. Thats been pretty obvious. Last year we ran a much slower pace. and 97(not 98) ppg for a jump shooting team is average IMO.

108 points a game ala phoenix is being good at it. I have no problem with him setting plays up quicker. but we are just relying on 3 pointers too much.

One thing Denver and Dallas proved is that we are not a jump shooting run and gun team. they are, we are just trying to be. If we dont improve our half court sets beyond pick and pop sheed with some Rip screens on the side. We are gonna get run outta the building a few more times this year and in the finals if we get dallas or phoenix.

You seem to think we cant do anything inside, which is bs imo. Tayshan needs to be inside more as does sheed and delfino. You seem to think the only way to get tay isndide is for him to slash. I also said we can get it to him in the post. And where is all this Tay cant dribble bs coming from. He may not be magical with the ball handling but he can get to the hole.


Here's what Flip encourages: If you have the open shot within your range, TAKE IT. How anybody could disagree with that is beyond me.

LOL..you're equating things i didnt say. I have now problem with that if its legitimate open shots. but chucking threes with a guy only 1 foot off you w/o paying attention to someone who may have a better shot is not a legitmate shot imo. I've seen numerous ocasions where sheed gets a switch in the post, yet we hoist the shot too quick to notice. Or where delfino or evans cuts to through the bad door and once again we are too busy chucking....

You seem to think we cant shoot ourselves out of a playoff series much like we did against the lakers, mavericks, heat, Jazz, and nuggets this season. If you live by the 3 pointer, you can very well die by it.

Grinding out 88ppg, getting to the free-throw line and playing lockdown defense won us a championship and got us to game seven of another(admittedly we were already becoming a jumpshooting team last year)..
Yea, i dont mind the quicker offense, but i think we score more and have a much more effective offense if we do more than chuck 3's. run a quick play to get a guy open for a high percentage jump sho in the mid range. We werent chucking at this rate to start the year and we scored more ppg.

Either way, unless washington makes it to the playoffs, i dont see any team in the east beating us. Unless Flip tries to get outcoached severely(it could happen). But i do see the non san antonio top 3 teams whooping our asses in a high paced jumper matchup easy.

Pistons are shooting 2 Ft's less per game this year and making 1 less. So its 1 pt per game difference.

Sheed is shooting the same ft's he did last year.
Same with Ben.
Billups is actually shooting 1.6 fts per game more this year but Rip is shooting 1.6 fts less.

Which is what we all wanted. We didn't want Rip driving to the basket because he sucks at it.

Defensively it 89.5 last year, same as right now.

The numbers pretty much show that we did the same exact thing last year except we are more efficient at offense this year.

The questions surrounding Flip's coaching acumen are not a surprise to me nor should they be with anyone here. There were a great majority of us that had doubts about Flip becomming the Piston coach when his name came up early on as a candidate. He hasn't done much nor had to do much to quell the doubters.

I am not suggesting that Flip is a bad coach just that he has his doubters and for good reason. I personally question his ability to reign in his players and more importantly I question his in-game matchups and late game adjustments.

I hope Flip will be able to adjust to what other teams are doing over the course of a playoff series.

I personally question his ability to reign in his players and more importantly I question his in-game matchups and late game adjustments.

I hope Flip will be able to adjust to what other teams are doing over the course of a playoff series.
Agreed. I dont think the sky is falling. But i do think we are vulnerable in a bad way to some things from other teams. And im worried that he doesnt care enough to adjust, especially in the playoffs where everyone draws up a whole new scheme based on your strengths and weaknesses.. And i do feel some of these wins came via surprising other teams that didnt expect us to be at a higher pace. So i hope that doesnt give Flip too much ego in his stubborness.

Either just expressive concern. Like i said before i dont see anyone in the east beating us.

Kstat,

What is you point here?

Are you trying to say that we should take 3 pointers no matter what because we don't have any inside players?

Because as far as I am concerned, we shouldn't be attempting 20+ 3point shots in a game no matter what percentage we are shooting.

Pistons are shooting 2 Ft's less per game this year and making 1 less. So its 1 pt per game difference.

Sheed is shooting the same ft's he did last year.
Same with Ben.
Billups is actually shooting 1.6 fts per game more this year but Rip is shooting 1.6 fts less.

Which is what we all wanted. We didn't want Rip driving to the basket because he sucks at it.

Defensively it 89.5 last year, same as right now.

The numbers pretty much show that we did the same exact thing last year except we are more efficient at offense this year.

I think a better measure would be the number of fouls called.

I seem to recall that our opponents were called for far more fouls than us.

Pistons are shooting 2 Ft's less per game this year and making 1 less. So its 1 pt per game difference.

Sheed is shooting the same ft's he did last year.
Same with Ben.
Billups is actually shooting 1.6 fts per game more this year but Rip is shooting 1.6 fts less.

Which is what we all wanted. We didn't want Rip driving to the basket because he sucks at it.

Defensively it 89.5 last year, same as right now.

The numbers pretty much show that we did the same exact thing last year except we are more efficient at offense this year.

I think a better measure would be the number of fouls called.

I seem to recall that our opponents were called for far more fouls than us.

That and the difference between the number of offensive possessions this year versus the last couple of years.

I think we should stop shooting 3's all together. I hate that shit. They are way too 3 happy.

Kstat,

What is you point here?

Are you trying to say that we should take 3 pointers no matter what because we don't have any inside players?

My point is that if we have open threes. TAKE THEM. If they don't go in, so be it. I'll take an open 3 over a contested 10-footer any day of the week.

108 points a game ala phoenix is being good at it. I have no problem with him setting plays up quicker. but we are just relying on 3 pointers too much.

Yes, Phoenix, who gets 20 more posessions per game than we do, scored 10 points more.

Wow if only we could be as efficient as them on jumpers.....

Pistons are shooting 2 Ft's less per game this year and making 1 less. So its 1 pt per game difference.

Sheed is shooting the same ft's he did last year.
Same with Ben.
Billups is actually shooting 1.6 fts per game more this year but Rip is shooting 1.6 fts less.

Which is what we all wanted. We didn't want Rip driving to the basket because he sucks at it.

Defensively it 89.5 last year, same as right now.

The numbers pretty much show that we did the same exact thing last year except we are more efficient at offense this year.

I think a better measure would be the number of fouls called.

I seem to recall that our opponents were called for far more fouls than us.

That and the difference between the number of offensive possessions this year versus the last couple of years.

87 possessions per game this year... 88 last year

Almost identical. This year, they are shooting 6% more jump shots than last year. But didn't we call for more triples last year? More jump shots? I remember at times we were forcing inside shots that weren't there. My point is that barely anything has changed except they are shooting a few more triples per game and their scoring has gone up.

Pistons are shooting 2 Ft's less per game this year and making 1 less. So its 1 pt per game difference.

Sheed is shooting the same ft's he did last year.
Same with Ben.
Billups is actually shooting 1.6 fts per game more this year but Rip is shooting 1.6 fts less.

Which is what we all wanted. We didn't want Rip driving to the basket because he sucks at it.

Defensively it 89.5 last year, same as right now.

The numbers pretty much show that we did the same exact thing last year except we are more efficient at offense this year.

I think a better measure would be the number of fouls called.

I seem to recall that our opponents were called for far more fouls than us.

That and the difference between the number of offensive possessions this year versus the last couple of years.

87 possessions per game this year... 88 last year

Almost identical. This year, they are shooting 6% more jump shots than last year. But didn't we call for more triples last year? More jump shots? I remember at times we were forcing inside shots that weren't there. My point is that barely anything has changed except they are shooting a few more triples per game and their scoring has gone up.

I was waiting for someone to see this besides me. Complete and utter hypocracy.

Some people just HAVE to make a mountain out of a molehill.

We have the most efficient offense in the NBA. It isn't even close. Yet people want to go back to the larry brown days, when we lost MORE games, but yet it was excusable because we were going to the basket...I mean, we went scorless on WAY more posessions than this year, but we were going to the basket, so it was all ok.

......and if larry was to come back next year, we'd all be sitting here crying like girls that we should stop forcing the ball so much and take more open shots. Can't have it both ways, people. Stop switching sides whenever the wind changes direction.

The Spurs BURIED our asses last year with threes. I didnt see anybody telling them they should take the ball inside more.

I was waiting for someone to see this besides me. Complete and utter hypocracy.

Some people just HAVE to make a mountain out of a molehill.

We have the most efficient offense in the NBA. It isn't even close. Yet people want to go back to the larry brown days, when we lost MORE games, but yet it was excusable because we were going to the basket...I mean, we went scorless on WAY more posessions than this year, but we were going to the basket, so it was all ok.

......and if larry was to come back next year, we'd all be sitting here crying like girls that we should stop forcing the ball so much and take more open shots. Can't have it both ways, people. Stop switching sides whenever the wind changes direction.

The Spurs BURIED our asses last year with threes. I didnt see anybody telling them they should take the ball inside more.

Horse shit.

We HAD an efficient offense. Ever since the AS break, our offense has looked like shit.

I don't give a flying fuck about how many games we lose as long as we win when it matters (in the playoffs). Besides losing a lot of games didn't really hurt us last year, did it? I seem to recall us being mere minutes away from a 2nd championship.

They were playing an inside out-game. Not chucking up 3s everytime down the floor like we are.

Horse shit.

We HAD an efficient offense. Ever since the AS break, our offense has looked like shit.


it's called tired legs.
It happens when you play long stretches without a homestand.

Unless you forsee any back-to-backs in the playoffs for us, That isn't going to be a factor.


They were playing an inside out-game. Not chucking up 3s everytime down the floor like we are.

You may as well give up on the season then, because this team is going to keep taking open shots, wether you like it or not.

Sniff Sniff

I think I smell the "scheduling loss" excuse again.

Let's face it, all of this falls square on the shoulders of one player on this team.

Flip is afraid to confront this particular player.

While a disagree that as a whole we're a bunch of chuckers, but this particular player has a tendency to start chucking.

I don't think it is right to look at the number of 3 point shots to see if we are shooting too many of them. If we have 29 wide open 3 point shots, we should take all 29 of them. But that wasn't the case, many of them, particular the shots of this particular player, are contested.

Our offense runs so much more efficiently when this particular player plays in the post. It opens up better 3 point opporitunites is he spreads the floor for our guards, instead of taking up their space. He can also score in the post and is our best post player.

Whenever he touches the ball on the perimeter, he is looking to shoot. The pick and roll gets annoying as it is run with him everytime down the court. When he gets cold he shoots more. When he's hot, he shoots less.

You're right. We should be forcing this player to back down guys 30 lbs heavier than he is. Good plan.

You may as well give up on the season then, because this team is going to keep taking open shots, wether you like it or not.

If the team is going to take open shots without looking for a better shot, then we might as well give up on the season because we sure as hell won't be going anywhere near a championship.

You're right. We should be forcing this player to back down guys 30 lbs heavier than he is. Good plan.
You don't think Sheed could have backed down Chris Mihm, Kwame Brown, or Lamar Odom? The guy has a higher release than anyone else. It is unblockable. Darko couldn't even block his shot. He has such a soft touch in the post as well. He is a truly gifted post player.

You may as well give up on the season then, because this team is going to keep taking open shots, wether you like it or not.

If the team is going to take open shots without looking for a better shot, then we might as well give up on the season because we sure as hell won't be going anywhere near a championship.

So be it.

You're right. We should be forcing this player to back down guys 30 lbs heavier than he is. Good plan.

Since when is it a requirement that you outweigh you defender to be able to play in the post?

You don't think Sheed could have backed down Chris Mihm, Kwame Brown, or Lamar Odom? The guy has a higher release than anyone else. It is unblockable. Darko couldn't even block his shot. He has such a soft touch in the post as well. He is a truly gifted post player.

No, I don't think Sheed at 230 lbs could have backed down 265-lb Chris Mihm or 260-lb Kwame Brown.

Shoot over them? Yes.

Back them down? You gotta be fucking kidding me.

You're right. We should be forcing this player to back down guys 30 lbs heavier than he is. Good plan.

Since when is it a requirement that you outweigh you defender to be able to play in the post?
Nobody ever scored a point on Oliver Miller...

What's wrong with getting solid positioning before the ball is thrown into the post?

Backing a guy down isn't the only way to play in the post.

All I gotta say is... we damn well better win the championship, because if we don't I already know where my finger is pointing to.

Personally I am of the belief that we're winning becuase of the players plain and simple, because they feel freer on offense, not because of flip saunders. I actually don't think he is a very good coach at all, and I put the majority of the credit for our great record soley at the feet of certain players. I feel as long as our coach wasn't a complete dimwit, we'd be doing well.

it does make wonder though if teams are gonna start trying to use the chucker mentality to their advantage, pack the lane and midrange with defense and let us live or die by the 3? Very risky because if we get hot look out, but its also cost us some.

Sheed is 250, and has quite possibly the best post game in the NBA, he just doesn't use it that often.

Think of when Sheed actually went to the post in the finals, he raped Tim Duncan. He has killed KG(repeatedly). He has taken Shaq apart.

So why shouldn't he play in the post more? So he can shoot bad 3's, and hurt our rebounding precense?

Sheed is 250

LOL [smilie=lmao.gif]

All I gotta say is... we damn well better win the championship, because if we don't I already know where my finger is pointing to.

Personally I am of the belief that we're winning becuase of the players plain and simple, because they feel freer on offense, not because of flip saunders. I actually don't think he is a very good coach at all, and I put the majority of the credit for our great record soley at the feet of certain players. I feel as long as our coach wasn't a complete dimwit, we'd be doing well.

it does make wonder though if teams are gonna start trying to use the chucker mentality to their advantage, pack the lane and midrange with defense and let us live or die by the 3? Very risky because if we get hot look out, but its also cost us some.

Wow, and here I was thining that I was the only one who had this opinion.
By far its the players more so than Flip.

You're right. We should be forcing this player to back down guys 30 lbs heavier than he is. Good plan.

Since when is it a requirement that you outweigh you defender to be able to play in the post?
since kstat somehow made it a requirement. [smilie=anxious.gif]

Show of hands---who is nostalgic for last year's offense where seven-minute scoring droughts were a staple?

The problem with lockdown defensive struggles is that they were coming out on the losing end of them too often because the go-to play on offense was rip driving the lane for a turnover. Look at last year's finals:

Points scored in losses: 69, 76, 74, 95(OT)
Points scored in wins: 96, 102, 95

This year's offense isn't likely to have three games out of seven under 80 points and needing overtime to get 95 in a fourth.

I get as frustrated as the next fan watching those individual games where Sheed puts up and misses a lot of threes but let's not lose sight of the big picture: the offense takes and makes open shots as a whole whether they come from 2 or 3 and it's in far better shape than it was a year ago.

The problem with lockdown defensive struggles is that they were coming out on the losing end of them too often because the go-to play on offense was rip driving the lane for a turnover. Look at last year's finals:

Points scored in losses: 69, 76, 74, 95(OT)
Points scored in wins: 96, 102, 95

This year's offense isn't likely to have three games out of seven under 80 points and needing overtime to get 95 in a fourth.

This year's games verses San Antonio:
85-70
83-68

While I guess that last statement still looks technically true, its not like those games verses the Spurs have been shooting matches.

The problem with lockdown defensive struggles is that they were coming out on the losing end of them too often because the go-to play on offense was rip driving the lane for a turnover. Look at last year's finals:

Points scored in losses: 69, 76, 74, 95(OT)
Points scored in wins: 96, 102, 95

This year's offense isn't likely to have three games out of seven under 80 points and needing overtime to get 95 in a fourth.

This year's games verses San Antonio:
85-70
83-68

While I guess that last statement still looks technically true, its not like those games verses the Spurs have been shooting matches.

One of those games was without Ginobili, who gives us the most problems on that team. And I'll also take regular season results with a grain of salt.

And I'm not worried at all about the three point shooting or high scoring. It's not like we're the Pierce/Antoine Celtics where we attempt 40 three pointers and only hit 4.

The only beef I have with this team is defensive rebounding. *looks at Sheed at Dice*

The only beef I have with this team is defensive rebounding. *looks at Sheed at Dice*

Actually the problem isnt them. Its the guards and the Perimeter foward. More jump shots=longer rebounds=more responsibility on the guards to help out on the boards. Another reason phoenix scores more than us is their ability to rebound on the perimeter. Marion at SF usually is all over the boards. we arent getting that from any of our perimeter players. Like i said we arent as effecient as other teams taking the jump shooting route. maybe we make up for it on defense. But nevertheless we arent capable of keeping up on the boards with just sheed, ben, and dice.

The only beef I have with this team is defensive rebounding. *looks at Sheed at Dice*

Actually the problem isnt them. Its the guards and the Perimeter foward. More jump shots=longer rebounds=more responsibility on the guards to help out on the boards. Another reason phoenix scores more than us is their ability to rebound on the perimeter. Marion at SF usually is all over the boards. we arent getting that from any of our perimeter players. Like i said we arent as effecient as other teams taking the jump shooting route. maybe we make up for it on defense. But nevertheless we arent capable of keeping up on the boards with just sheed, ben, and dice.

Not to be picky, but Marion hasn't played SF in a couple years. Last year they had Amare at Center and Marion at PF. This year he has to play PF again because Amare is out. He would be at SF long term though with Amare and Thomas both healthy. Jones plays SF for them, and sometimes Diaw (he plays everywhere though).

At any rate, I agree our help rebounding isn't very good.

The only beef I have with this team is defensive rebounding. *looks at Sheed at Dice*

Actually the problem isnt them. Its the guards and the Perimeter foward. More jump shots=longer rebounds=more responsibility on the guards to help out on the boards. Another reason phoenix scores more than us is their ability to rebound on the perimeter. Marion at SF usually is all over the boards. we arent getting that from any of our perimeter players. Like i said we arent as effecient as other teams taking the jump shooting route. maybe we make up for it on defense. But nevertheless we arent capable of keeping up on the boards with just sheed, ben, and dice.

Not to be picky, but Marion hasn't played SF in a couple years. Last year they had Amare at Center and Marion at PF. This year he has to play PF again because Amare is out. He would be at SF long term though with Amare and Thomas both healthy. Jones plays SF for them, and sometimes Diaw (he plays everywhere though).

At any rate, I agree our help rebounding isn't very good.

You sure? i coulda sworn it was Diaw playing PF. Atleast that it what it looks like at times. but both guys are capable of seminglessly changing from SF to PF and vice versa on the court so i was probally mixed up.

But either way as much as people put it on tayshan, its everybody. When delfino and Evans come in, they are usually the only perimeter guys crashing the boards. And its epecially fucked up on a sheed 3 poointer. But its weird sometimes. It also reflects how much harder Ben is working on the boards this year having to grab longer rebounds.

Against the Spurs, we were suddenly the best help-rebounding team in the NBA.

We CRUSHED San Antonio on the glass twice.

This team knows how to dominate physically, they just choose to pace themselves most of the time.

There is reason why we've been "lucky" when it comes to injuries and such. We don't play physical basketball. We'll turn it up a couple of notches come the play-offs, attacking the boards for rebounds and the basket to draw contact and fouls. What's the point of doing that now, getting physically beat up and risking injury when we still have the best record in the league?

A lot of people(myself definitely included) look at the mpg's of our starters, but you compare the minutes to the rest of the top players across the league and I believe I read somewhere that we don't have any players ranked in the top 40 of mpg. Furthermore guys like Wade and Ginobili take a shitkickin' attacking the basket, while bigs banging and fighting for rebounds are battered and bruised at best after a long season. We play a very safe style of basketball for the most part, less risk of injury and less wear and tear. Opposing fans harp that we haven't had to face injury as a knock against us and our record, but I think we play our style with that in mind.

That is my hope.

Given that Wade is sidelined with a sprained wrist and Ginobili still isn't back to 100% with the sprained foot, I'll agree with Kilo (does that mean I take it up the ole' poop shoot tonight?)

There is reason why we've been "lucky" when it comes to injuries and such. We don't play physical basketball. We'll turn it up a couple of notches come the play-offs, attacking the boards for rebounds and the basket to draw contact and fouls. What's the point of doing that now, getting physically beat up and risking injury when we still have the best record in the league?

A lot of people(myself definitely included) look at the mpg's of our starters, but you compare the minutes to the rest of the top players across the league and I believe I read somewhere that we don't have any players ranked in the top 40 of mpg. Furthermore guys like Wade and Ginobili take a shitkickin' attacking the basket, while bigs banging and fighting for rebounds are battered and bruised at best after a long season. We play a very safe style of basketball for the most part, less risk of injury and less wear and tear. Opposing fans harp that we haven't had to face injury as a knock against us and our record, but I think we play our style with that in mind.

That is my hope.

I completely agree. I just hope(and am fairly sure) that come playoff time they can turn it back on.

There is reason why we've been "lucky" when it comes to injuries and such. We don't play physical basketball. We'll turn it up a couple of notches come the play-offs, attacking the boards for rebounds and the basket to draw contact and fouls. What's the point of doing that now, getting physically beat up and risking injury when we still have the best record in the league?

A lot of people(myself definitely included) look at the mpg's of our starters, but you compare the minutes to the rest of the top players across the league and I believe I read somewhere that we don't have any players ranked in the top 40 of mpg. Furthermore guys like Wade and Ginobili take a shitkickin' attacking the basket, while bigs banging and fighting for rebounds are battered and bruised at best after a long season. We play a very safe style of basketball for the most part, less risk of injury and less wear and tear. Opposing fans harp that we haven't had to face injury as a knock against us and our record, but I think we play our style with that in mind.

That is my hope.

I completely agree. I just hope(and am fairly sure) that come playoff time they can turn it back on.


I have no doubt they will. The thing that pisses me off is that if they know how and when to turn it on, why cant they do that to get away from the mavs and spurs for right now. If alls they talk about is home court advantage, then you have to win every game possable.

Bah!

I don't buy the "they can turn in on when it matters" line of thinking.

If you do, then you are basically saying that they don't mind losing games to teams like the Lakers or the Nuggets. Do you really think they just don't mind losing?

I just hope that none of you really believe that a guy like Joe Dumars would endorse the softness of the Pistons as of late.

That's right, I said soft. I never thought that I would call any team with Ben Wallace on it "soft".

Maybe that's why he seems so pissed lately?

I think Anthony almost hit on it in his last post. If they value HCA as much as they all say that they do, then why aren't they going all out to win these games instead of just mailing it in by chucking and not going hard after rebounds?

It doesn't make any sense and quite frankly it pisses me off, almost as much as having fans making excuses for this level of play.

That's right, I said soft. I never thought that I would call any team with Ben Wallace on it "soft".

Wow, wish we were more like the "tough" teams....you know, the ones with worse records than us.....

Has the sky hit you in the head yeat?

^like him

....and when we rip off the next 8 or 9 games in a row, all of a sudden we'll be doing ok again.

This shit happens in an 82-game season. Welcome to the NBA. Save your bickering for the playoffs.

I recall reading a lot of spurs fans whining and bitching like little schoolgirls after their 2 losses to us, that the Spurs were "soft" and weren't nearly as "tough" as the Pistons. You're doing the same thing.

At some point in a season, EVERY team starts playing well below their standards. Sheesh.

Sorry that all of us don't live in a world where the teams we follow can do no wrong.

Looking for ways that the team can improve is what makes following sports fun. If I see something that I want to critique/comment on, I will. Just like if I see something that I like.

Blind loyalty is no fun, and the world can be an ugly place sometimes.

Kstat, are you related to George Bush?

I feel like I'm not fully supporting the war and I'm being called un-American.

....and when we rip off the next 8 or 9 games in a row, all of a sudden we'll be doing ok again.

This shit happens in an 82-game season. Welcome to the NBA. Save your bickering for the playoffs.

I recall reading a lot of spurs fans whining and bitching like little schoolgirls after their 2 losses to us, that the Spurs were "soft" and weren't nearly as "tough" as the Pistons. You're doing the same thing.

At some point in a season, EVERY team starts playing well below their standards. Sheesh.


The spurs are softer than us. Tim Duncan is like a teddy bear. They had a legit gripe, just like we have a legit gripe. I relize these guys are humon, and i'm sure they were worn out. I think that was the end of a 7 games in 10 nights all involving travel. I understand that. But there is no reason in hell they should have blown a 13pt lead to the LA FUCKING LAKERS! If you have tired legs, and no lift on your jump shots, then why the hell would you continue to shoot them? Why not go inside. Why not take a higher % shot with a 13 point lead on the end of a back to back. It dosnt make sence to me.

Sorry that all of us don't live in a world where the teams we follow can do no wrong.

Looking for ways that the team can improve is what makes following sports fun. If I see something that I want to critique/comment on, I will. Just like if I see something that I like.

Blind loyalty is no fun, and the world can be an ugly place sometimes.



I agree. I'm a homer. Just because we love our team dosnt mean we cant say what needs improving, or what is missing.
Its like a product you buy from the store. You can love it to death, but theres always something that can be better about it.

I relize these guys are humon, and i'm sure they were worn out. I think that was the end of a 7 games in 10 nights all involving travel. I understand that. But there is no reason in hell they should have blown a 13pt lead to the LA FUCKING LAKERS! If you have tired legs, and no lift on your jump shots, then why the hell would you continue to shoot them? Why not go inside. Why not take a higher % shot with a 13 point lead on the end of a back to back. It dosnt make sence to me.

Going inside is much harder on your body than shooting jumpshots. If you are tired, you probably don't have as much stregnth as much as usual, especially against a team that is taller and heavier.....like the Lakers.

You can't take it inside against a team that has 6'7 225 SG guarding your point guard.

There's a different between looking for improvement and pressing the panic button. You're doing the latter.

There's a different between looking for improvement and pressing the panic button. You're doing the latter.

Thanks for analyzing how I feel and what I am doing.

This discussion aside, I look forward to reading more of your opinions. You are certainly welcome to voice them here no matter how "pie in the sky" they are.

I'm happy that you are so comfortable with how things are going, hopefully you can respect that some here aspire for more.

There's a different between looking for improvement and pressing the panic button. You're doing the latter.

Thanks for analyzing how I feel and what I am doing.

This discussion aside, I look forward to reading more of your opinions. You are certainly welcome to voice then here no matter how "pie in the sky" they are.

I'm happy that you are so comfortable with how things are going, hopefully you can respect that some here aspire for more.There's also a different between analyzing and criticizing.

After further analysis, I haven't been able to decide what Glenn's doing.
He feels good though. He probably polished off a couple Jello's at lunch time.

I relize these guys are humon, and i'm sure they were worn out. I think that was the end of a 7 games in 10 nights all involving travel. I understand that. But there is no reason in hell they should have blown a 13pt lead to the LA FUCKING LAKERS! If you have tired legs, and no lift on your jump shots, then why the hell would you continue to shoot them? Why not go inside. Why not take a higher % shot with a 13 point lead on the end of a back to back. It dosnt make sence to me.

Going inside is much harder on your body than shooting jumpshots. If you are tired, you probably don't have as much stregnth as much as usual, especially against a team that is taller and heavier.....like the Lakers.

You can't take it inside against a team that has 6'7 225 SG guarding your point guard.

So what you're saying is that it takes more energy and strength to walk the ball up court and milk the 24 second shot clock, and toss it into Sheed for a high % shot. Or does it take more energry to rush down court and jack up a 3 with 17 or 18 seconds left on the clock, only to have to race back on defense? Seems to me like when you're tired and trying to portect a 13pt lead, slowing the tempo seems like the better idea.

There's a different between looking for improvement and pressing the panic button. You're doing the latter.

Who's pressing the panic button? All we're saying is that not everything is perfect & shit.

It's not just the lack of improvement but the drop in the level of the play that concerns some of us.

Everyone's level of play drops off sometimes.

Yeah, Ok. But when you're the top team in the NBA, your level of play should not drop so far as to blow a 13 point lead to a team thats barly hanging onto the 8th spot out west. A team that is hardly .500
Its not right.

Yeah, Ok. But when you're the top team in the NBA, your level of play should not drop so far as to blow a 13 point lead to a team thats barly hanging onto the 8th spot out west. A team that is hardly .500
Its not right.

The 1996 Bulls lost by 30 points to a mediocre Knicks team.

It happens.

That Bulls team also lost to the Expansion Raptors.

Yeah, Ok. But when you're the top team in the NBA, your level of play should not drop so far as to blow a 13 point lead to a team thats barly hanging onto the 8th spot out west. A team that is hardly .500
Its not right.

The 1996 Bulls lost by 30 points to a mediocre Knicks team.

It happens.

That team only had 8 close games all season. And they had 43 blowouts.

If we were playing at that level, then I am sure that no one would be compaining about us.

Someone always finds a way to complain about something. I assure it happened to the 96 bulls too.

Someone always finds a way to complain about something. I assure it happened to the 96 bulls too.

So if someone found something to critize about the 96 Bulls, why can't we do the same to our team?

Someone always finds a way to complain about something. I assure it happened to the 96 bulls too.

So if someone found something to critize about the 96 Bulls, why can't we do the same to our team?

No ones saying you can't. We're just saying it's stupid. I'd hate to be around here if this team sucked, Kilo and Glenn would probably be on suicide watch.

I have vivid memories of the 1994 and 1995 Pistons, with Ivano Newbill and Walter Bond.

I just can't get myself to get so excited ovew a few bad losses by a 48-11 team. Sorry, Just can't.

I have vivid memories of the 1994 and 1995 Pistons, with Ivano Newbill and Walter Bond.

I just can't get myself to get so excited ovew a few bad losses by a 48-11 team. Sorry, Just can't.


I agree completely.

I just can't get myself to get so excited ovew a few bad losses by a 48-11 team. Sorry, Just can't.

LMFAO! I am REEEEEALLY tempted to copy over some of your World Corssing posts. You never get "excited" over a loss. BTW did you leave that board for forever AGAIN because other people were making game threads?

I have vivid memories of the 1994 and 1995 Pistons, with Ivano Newbill and Walter Bond.

I just can't get myself to get so excited ovew a few bad losses by a 48-11 team. Sorry, Just can't.


Oh, believe me, thats around the time I could start remember actuall players. I remember those bad teams. I'm not trying to get over excited, I just dont see the harm in talking about what things that might become habbit or possable weeknesses. I still think that when they're rested, and when they want to no one in the world is going to beat them. This just gives us something to talk about.

Walter Bond was such garbage he didn't even have a name on the back of his jersey. It took like 3 weeks for management to care enough about the guy to give him one.

Man, I totally forgot about the worldcrossing forums. They used to be the Freep forums until they got rid of them. Bad move.

LOL@ arguing about arguing.

If people can't understand that the margin for a satisfactory level of play is smaller for a team expected to win a championship then for some scrub team with over the hill HoFers and jokes to basketball like fucking Pete Chilcutt, then that's there problem.

No one is saying that this team is garbage and no one who isn't happy with the last couple of losses would be shooting themselves if a team lead by Olden Polynice just lost to an 8th seed comparable to the Kobe Bryant show.

But if you think "tired legs" is the reason the Pistons lost a 13 point lead to the one man team called the Lakers then you seriously underestimate the talent of the team (IMO). Does anyone here really think that the Pistons couldn't have won that game even with "tired legs" (OMG!11!!DOOOMZZZ!!)? If you do, then fine, thats shows how good/bad you think they are. If you don't, then you think the team lost a game they could have won due to some other reason (be it lack of motivation, focus, laziness, poor decision making, coaching, lack of bench ability, etc.) Lossing a game in such a fashion is always open for criticism IMO.

Well said, Fool.

"Pushing the panic button" would be calling for Flip to be fired, or calling for us to trade one of our starters or other extreme measures.

To my recollection, nobody here is doing that.

Well said, Fool.

"Pushing the panic button" would be calling for Flip to be fired, or calling for us to trade one of our starters or other extreme measures.

To my recollection, nobody here is doing that.
Except in the Tayshaun thread that ironically featured Kstat as one of the high level panic button complainers on Tay. [smilie=anxious.gif]

... you think the team lost a game they could have won due to some other reason (be it lack of motivation, focus, laziness, poor decision making, coaching, lack of bench ability, etc.)

I'll take all of the above.

what do I win?