WTFDetroit.com

View Full Version : Gladwell's word = Final Say re: LB and Darko



DennyMcLain
03-03-2006, 08:28 PM
I've always been a fan of Malcolm Gladwell's writing, even if he DOES look a little freakish (but, how many writers "don't"...Krista Latham doesn't apply here, Glenn).

On Page Two he supports what half of WTFDetroit have been saying all along...

By Bill Simmons
Page 2

This week's exchange is with Malcolm Gladwell, the best-selling author of "Blink" and "Tipping Point," as well as the longtime cleanup hitter for the New Yorker. You would never think that the most successful non-fiction writer alive would double as a huge sports fan ... but he does. So, I couldn't resist the chance to exchange e-mails with him intermittently over the past six weeks. Because of the length of the transcript, we're breaking it up into two parts. This is Part II.

Don't forget to check out Part I.

Simmons: You brought up Phil Jackson. ... Isn't it strange that NBA teams keep hiring and firing the same types of coaches -- either former players who end up being overmatched or college coaches who fail for a few years, then run back to college with their tails between their legs? And yet, someone like Jackson -- and Gregg Popovich, to a lesser degree -- has shown that the best NBA coaches are always the ones who:

A. trust their players and allow them to think on their own
B. know how to manage egos
C. keep things as simple as possible
D. are smart enough to avoid having head cases and bad apples around who could potentially undermine them
E. seem to connect with their players on a level beyond just player-and-coach?

Being a great NBA coach is like being a great college professor -- the best professors challenge their students intellectually, figure out ways to connect with them individually and have enough charisma that students rarely tune them out but, at the same time, those students still have to get the work done. And yet, there's something in those great professors that makes the students want to do the work. You rarely see that dynamic with NBA coaches and players, and I'm not sure why.

In Phil Jackson's case, there's no rational reason why the rest of the Lakers are playing so hard when everything revolves around Kobe, but he has most of them killing themselves on the court like worker bees, and none of them seem to mind except for Odom. Some of that is happening because of his reputation -- when you have succeeded in the past, that builds a certain level of trust from the people currently around you -- and some of that is happening because he puts players in positions where they have to worry only about doing things in their wheelhouse. At the same time, someone like Kwame Brown is going through the motions this season, which could mean that he's completely unredeemable (very possible), that he still needs to find a team more suited for his skills (also possible), that MJ inflicted enough mental damage on him in his formative years that he simply can't bounce back (far-fetched, but not implausible), or that Jackson hasn't gotten through to him yet. Anyone who can put up a 30/19 in an NBA game has talent. We know that much. And you know it's killing Jackson -- he's probably going home every night thinking, "There has to be a way I can get to this kid. ... What can I do? ... What can I do?"

Which brings me to my next question: Is it that difficult to coach an NBA team, or is this one of those professions where 95 percent of the people approach it the wrong way? For instance, let's say Larry Brown called you and said, "I want to change some of my coaching methods, how do you think I can get through to my crappy team?"


What would you tell him? Should NBA coaches be approaching their job from a more intellectual standpoint? Should they be consulting with well-known psychiatrists and sociologists searching for any tidbits that could make their jobs easier?

Gladwell: Is it just the coach? Or should we also think about the other players? The big insight in child psychology recently has been, for instance, that parents matter less in how we turn out than we think and peers matter more. That doesn't mean I don't think coaches are critical; they are. But I think we underestimate the role that teammates and peers can play. I think Larry Brown, for instance, got way too much credit in Detroit. The Pistons' success is a peer effect. The core of that team, I suspect, is just incredibly grounded and mutually supportive, and something about the combination of players that Dumars put together brings out the best in all of them. How can you play on a team with Ben Wallace and Rip Hamilton and not try hard? You'd have to be a sociopath not to be infected by their enthusiasm and work ethic. That's why I think (much as I hate to admit it) that Darko is irredeemable. If he didn't try while he was on the Pistons, he's not going to try in Orlando. He's like the kid in Jamie Escalante's class who still manages to fail calculus. Kwame Brown's problem is that the Wizards made a prediction about his basketball abilities when he was 18. When I asked an Ivy league admissions officer why the SAT is such a lousy predictor of how good a student is going to end up being, he said to me (memorably): "People take the SAT when they're 18. When you're 18, we can't even predict what you're going to be like three hours from now."

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/060303&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab3pos1

Kilo
03-03-2006, 08:40 PM
I contend that the age difference between our players lead to a generational gap of sorts where Milicic and the rest of our players never really connected on any level, hence there would be no peer tutoring or pressure because they didn't see each others or treat each other as peers. LB laid the ground work for the first impression by ridiculing Milicic mercilessly and I think that killed Darko. Fans picked up on it and he became the "Human Vicory Cigar", LB goes on Letterman and blasts Milicic as being more immature than his 10 yr old kid. He didn't see himself as a member of the "team". Guys who saw him practice would say that he was aloof and a loner even in practice - he didn't feel that he belonged which lead to more isolation.

Now Milicic is in Orlando where their star and leader is his age. He is being treated as a member of the team by all of his teammates, coaches and front office staff. He's also getting praised by the local media and fans love him and are calling for him to get more and more minutes. He isn't under the extreme pressure of being perfect on the floor, his team can grow with him and live with his mistakes.

If he fails in Orlando I'll buy Gladwell's diagnosis, but I don't think he will.

Black Dynamite
03-03-2006, 09:17 PM
He isn't under the extreme pressure of being perfect on the floor, his team can grow with him and live with his mistakes.

If he fails in Orlando I'll buy Gladwell's diagnosis, but I don't think he will.
Wait let me get this straight. Playing hard with some heart is perfect? Because thats all we asked for and all he lacked in return. Wow@the pressure to be perfect theory. If Darko could've been average Detroit woulda been content as long as he gave it his all. He didnt. If anything there would be more pressure in Orlando since he will get playing regardless of how lazy he is. Age gap? thats bs, Maxiell isnt having trouble with it. Sounds like a gap in effort.

Koolaid
03-03-2006, 09:27 PM
Actually his theory is sort of right, with a big flaw in it though.


Darko didn't play with Rip and Ben, He played with Horace Jenkins and Darvin Ham.

However some of his best playing in a Piston's uniform did come in the small ammount of time he was on the court with ben wallace.

Kilo
03-03-2006, 09:29 PM
He isn't under the extreme pressure of being perfect on the floor, his team can grow with him and live with his mistakes.

If he fails in Orlando I'll buy Gladwell's diagnosis, but I don't think he will.
Wait let me get this straight. Playing hard with some heart is perfect? Because thats all we asked for and all he lacked in return. Wow@the pressure to be perfect theory. If Darko could've been average Detroit woulda been content as long as he gave it his all. He didnt. If anything there would be more pressure in Orlando since he will get playing regardless of how lazy he is. Age gap? thats bs, Maxiell isnt having trouble with it. Sounds like a gap in effort.

To each his own.

Koolaid
03-03-2006, 10:02 PM
Wait let me get this straight. Playing hard with some heart is perfect?

That isn't true. He needed to play better than McDyess to get playing time. Playing hard with some heart isn't going to make Larry Brown or Flip Saunders put him in the game. This isn't the special olympics, It's the NBA.

If all that was asked of players was to give it their all, we would be starting Horace Jenkins. That guy tried so damn hard, 30 something years old running around as energetic as a rookie, playing as quick as anyone. Don't get me wrong, he still wasn't good, but he had heart for sure.

DennyMcLain
03-03-2006, 11:17 PM
I think you guys are missing the point of the comments.

Hard work does not equal PT. Having a strong heart does not equal PT (except for Eddie Curry).

What Gladwell is emphasizing is Milicic's determination. Who the fucking Hell cares if LB bashed him? If he owned an ounce of champion inside of him, he'd work his fucking ass off in practice in order to PROVE Brown and his teammates wrong. This is a fella who had it all in Europe. He was catered to left and right, and placed upon a pedistal with crazy glue -- dude could do no wrong. He carried that mentality to the NBA and set himself up for a huge fall. The fact that he could not get back up and fight for his dignity clearly shows his lack of will, which is in direct contrast with the "get to work" persona of the team.

I also agree with the LB comments. I posted a topic some time ago re: Larry Brown's legacy being tarnished by Flip's sudden success. How can a team known for their defense and lack of offense suddenly, inexplicably, become a more prolific scoring team with basically the same unit? Is Flip a better fit with this team? If so, what does that say about the "legend" of Larry Brown and his ability to "turn teams around"? If he's so damn smart, couldn't he have unleashed the alpacas himself? Or, is he so bent on his ways, he couldn't see the ultimate potential of this unit? True, he won a title with the Pistons, but similar to Philip in LA, the Pistons had been moving in that direction, unable to clear that final hurdle.

A more direct question would be, if Flip was coach last year, would the Pistons have beaten the Spurs?

I say "yes".

Kilo
03-04-2006, 12:01 AM
Milicic had it all in Europe? I thought he was hiding under his kitchen table as his city was bombed. I thought he HAD to leave home at 14 years old to play professionally and support his family while his father was fighting in the war.

Heart of a champion to prove LB wrong? I say it's a heart of a chump to take that shit and keep working hard for an asshole. Milicic worked hard for his National Team and worked hard during the pre-season - that didn't earn him any more minutes. He felt lied to and decided he wanted out of the situation.

He was the unofficial team mascot and wanted a fresh start. He was miserable coming to work everyday and it showed. Sure you'll point to all the glorious money he is being paid and say he should have grinned, beared it and gave 100%. But the money is relative, his money cannot be comparied to you paycheck or mine.

You say he had no pride, I say it was his pride that asked to be traded. It was a bad situation in Detroit - money be damned. You all say you would handle it different, and maybe you would have in his situation. I just think you expect way too much from a 18, 19, 20 yr old kid in a mans world. He wanted to earn his money, to play and not sit on the bench, watch the team he doesn't feel apart of and bust his ass for nothing in practice. He's practiced enough his whole life, he needed playing time.

I don't know how I could relate it to the real world. I guess it would be sorta like multiplying your work training day or week 100x over. Sure you are getting paid, but after watching that same video for the 10th time, after hearing the same lectures over and over again after awhile you want to actually try out what you've learned. There is only so much you can learn watching somebody else do things and practicing doing things.

To put it crudely - No matter how many times you jack off, you still ain't preparing yourself for pussy.

You seem to believe that Darko could have worked his way into the rotation. I say bullshit. He saw Rasheed, Ben, and McDyess in front of him, he heard Davis would get minutes in the second half of the season and he heard that HCA was the goal during the regular season. He saw the writing on the wall for this season and the next season and he wanted out.

Keep working hard in practice Darko, so in two years time when you're a free agent we can lowball you an offer. Keep busting you ass in practice Darko while you continue to be the laughing stock in the league, called a bust in every publication and the butt of many jokes. Keep busting your ass in practice Darko, eventhough there is no light at the end of the tunnel, we know you are working hard and that is all that matters.

He has no work ethic, but he'd prefer to play somewhere rather than ride the pine here. You'd think if he had zero work ethic he would have enjoyed his time here with no pressures, to sit at the end of the bench and get paid crazy amounts of money.

DennyMcLain
03-04-2006, 01:57 AM
RRRRRRRAAAAAHHHHRRRRRRRR!!!!!! The unbridled anger that is Kilo.

Understood. Same thing happened to Billups. Maybe Darko is a late bloomer. Maybe he needs to be inserted into a better fitting system.

But, the question persists: If Larry Brown is such a "genius"(note the quotations), then why WAS he such an asshole to Darko? If Darko has so much potential, then why were journeymen and second rounders getting the PT and he wasn't?

Think, Kilo. There's gotta be something more to this.

H1Man
03-04-2006, 03:47 AM
A more direct question would be, if Flip was coach last year, would the Pistons have beaten the Spurs?

I say "yes".

Hate to go off-topic, but I say "No."

Hermy
03-04-2006, 02:01 PM
A more direct question would be, if Flip was coach last year, would the Pistons have beaten the Spurs?

I say "yes".

Hate to go off-topic, but I say "No."

Its much more likely that if LB was the coach of Minny in 04 they would have won the title, than Flip making a difference last year.

mikevant
03-04-2006, 04:44 PM
Milicic had it all in Europe? I thought he was hiding under his kitchen table as his city was bombed. I thought he HAD to leave home at 14 years old to play professionally and support his family while his father was fighting in the war.
Maybe NATO can airlift some cases of kleenex to his home in Serbia. It's a wonder that the streets are not flooded with all of the crying about Darko.

Black Dynamite
03-04-2006, 05:15 PM
Milicic had it all in Europe? I thought he was hiding under his kitchen table as his city was bombed. I thought he HAD to leave home at 14 years old to play professionally and support his family while his father was fighting in the war.
Maybe NATO can airlift some cases of kleenex to his home in Serbia. It's a wonder that the streets are not flooded with all of the crying about Darko.
Because they dont give a shit. Darko's tears arent a priority in their world. And its a shame that some people make his childish gripes a priority here. When it becomes apparent that this guy is never going to give you 100 percent effort at any point on the floor and off. Its time to move on. Maybe it became apparent to Joe D later than others. But thats his perogative and i applaud him for giving the kid a chance to improve his work ethic.


@Kilo. sorry dude, but fuck his home, family and the kitchen table. All that shit was irrelevent to basketball. I couldnt give half a shit. Last i checked he's a 20 year old millionaire, and serbia was still not sitting pretty money wise as a people. So boo fucking hoo for him.