Aldridge is a beast. Morrison is the next Larry Bird.
he's the next overrated white boy? Great. [smilie=2thumbsup.g:

Anyone who calls Larry Bird overrated either never saw him play or has a racial bias. You cannot argue with stats, rings, and just having seen the man play. He's one of the greatest of all time.

Calling him overrated because he was white is beyond stupid.

Aldridge is a beast. Morrison is the next Larry Bird.
he's the next overrated white boy? Great. [smilie=2thumbsup.g:

Lets take a look see....

http://www.nba.com/history/players/bird_stats.html

Those teams were great. From what i saw he sucked on defense and is not one of the greatest ever. Throw the race card out all you want, Or call me bias because of my lack of fondness in his ability to be a prick even today. Try to put whatever extra words you wanna try in my mouth. But on a generral consesnsus he's considered a top 5 all time player and he's not top ten in my book. Bad? No. Average? No. great player in his day? Yep. Great team around him? Yep. All time great? Nope. And in fact the celtics werent even a threat to win a title after those other pieces started falling off the Clover.

Bird had a great run. But he's an overrated white boy. Maybe you guys rate him lower than most. Maybe you dont. Either way doesnt matter to me.

84-85 BOS 80 77 39.5 .522 .427 .882 2.10 8.50 10.50 6.6 1.61 1.23 3.10 2.60 28.7


Stupid. Not as stupid as Getz, but stupid.

Aldridge is a beast. Morrison is the next Larry Bird.
he's the next overrated white boy? Great. [smilie=2thumbsup.g:

Lets take a look see....

http://www.nba.com/history/players/bird_stats.html
yea lets

http://www.celticstats.com/player/kevinmchale.html

http://www.celticstats.com/player/robertparish.html

http://www.celticstats.com/player/dannyainge.html

http://www.celticstats.com/player/dennisjohnson.html

As far i was concerned shutting McHale down was more important when playing the celtics. I've seen these fuckheads in action and the idea that it was about Bird being so great is bs to me. They laid out some good pieces to that team. and once those pieces started to vanished they werent a threat and Bird was irrelevent. But some im sure are gonna blame his injuries. [smilie=2thumbsup.g:

84-85 BOS 80 77 39.5 .522 .427 .882 2.10 8.50 10.50 6.6 1.61 1.23 3.10 2.60 28.7


Stupid. Not as stupid as Getz, but stupid.
Have i struck a nerve in the Bird slighted society? I already know Permy likes to skew things down to a season. Maybe a game if he thinks he can get away with it. Deny it, but once again a long term basis discussion is brought up and you go hunting for an in particular season to suit your point. Maybe its just coincidence. [smilie=2thumbsup.g:

84-85 BOS 80 77 39.5 .522 .427 .882 2.10 8.50 10.50 6.6 1.61 1.23 3.10 2.60 28.7


Stupid. Not as stupid as Getz, but stupid.
Have i struck a nerve in the Bird slighted society? I already know Permy likes to skew things down to a season. Maybe a game if he thinks he can get away with it. Deny it, but once again a long term basis discussion is brought up and you go hunting for an in particular season to suit your point. Maybe its just coincidence. [smilie=2thumbsup.g:

LOL @ ME SKEWING THINGS TO A SEASON!!!

Marion doesn't deserve MVP because of his 6th grade team in 1992-Gutz

Yeah, grabbing 10 boards per game on a team with McHale and Parrish must be cake.

Jerry Rice was only good because of Montanta and Craig. Overrated

Shaq always has a great sidekick guard. Overrated.

You spew more dumb than everyone on real GM combined. Well, I'll give you cow. (insert stupid little smiley I use after I make a lame joke)

84-85 BOS 80 77 39.5 .522 .427 .882 2.10 8.50 10.50 6.6 1.61 1.23 3.10 2.60 28.7


Stupid. Not as stupid as Getz, but stupid.
Have i struck a nerve in the Bird slighted society? I already know Permy likes to skew things down to a season. Maybe a game if he thinks he can get away with it. Deny it, but once again a long term basis discussion is brought up and you go hunting for an in particular season to suit your point. Maybe its just coincidence. [smilie=2thumbsup.g:

LOL @ ME SKEWING THINGS TO A SEASON!!!

Marion doesn't deserve MVP because of his 6th grade team in 1992-Gutz

Yeah, grabbing 10 boards per game on a team with McHale and Parrish must be cake.

Jerry Rice was only good because of Montanta and Craig. Overrated

Shaq always has a great sidekick guard. Overrated.

You spew more dumb than everyone on real GM combined. Well, I'll give you cow. (insert stupid little smiley I use after I make a lame joke)

Jerry Rice performed under various scenarios with various teams as did shaq. So you are way off and pretty much should think before you post.

Do we need to revisit the marion debate that you aggravated yourself on. because you had nothing to prove that he's was the vital piece that keeps Phoenix afloat?

Either way spend more time thinking on your posts. Less time with LOL [smilie=antlers.gif] (for a guy who throws out cheap shots about someone being stupid, you really threw a dumb one at me) [smilie=arrgh.jpg]

There's not a single intelligent argument you can make in trying to disprove Larry Bird's greatness. This is quickly going to turn into a LOL @ Rorshach thread.

Yeah, and Rice played football too. Way off. Thats brilliant. Great point. So if Bird had played with Jordan and won titles you would be sucking him off, but you don't believe he would have?

I'll think more about writing at a 5th grade level for you.

Please don't revisit the Marion debate, you can't write. Less from you is more.

There's not a single intelligent argument you can make in trying to disprove Larry Bird's greatness. This is quickly going to turn into a LOL @ Rorshach thread.
Greatness? You obviously are imagining my posts as opposed to reading them.

Lets get the line of communication moving again.


Not once have i called bird anything less than a great player. But he's not an all time great. Top 50 maybe. But not top 10 or top 20 to me. But go ahead and argue something i didnt say and display the faltered reading comprehension skills.

Maybe you're buzzing off some good liquor. Either way its no excuse for the ignorance you've shown on my point. Im not trying to disprove anyone's greatness. What is already proven IMO that Bird is overrated by most who put him anywhere near the top ten guys all time. [smilie=antlers.gif]

Yeah, and Rice played football too. Way off. Thats brilliant. Great point. So if Bird had played with Jordan and won titles you would be sucking him off, but you don't believe he would have?

I'll think more about writing at a 5th grade level for you.

Please don't revisit the Marion debate, you can't write. Less from you is more.

Ok Hermy is mad and i dont care.

You brought up Rice. Your point that he plays football is pretty retarded. You are trying to be witty and its not working. If Bird played with Jordan and won titles he be in the same boat actually.A great player but not top 10. Once again you're not good at being witty. [smilie=baby.gif]

You've been writing 5th grade level from the jump with the name calling so how much more remedial are you planning to get? [smilie=anxious.gif]

So is that last statement on the Marion vs Nash dispute you're official cop out?

I'll start it off: LOL@Rorschach

Yeah, and Rice played football too. Way off. Thats brilliant. Great point. So if Bird had played with Jordan and won titles you would be sucking him off, but you don't believe he would have?

I'll think more about writing at a 5th grade level for you.

Please don't revisit the Marion debate, you can't write. Less from you is more.

Ok Hermy is mad and i dont care.

You brought up Rice. Your point that he plays football is pretty retarded. You are trying to be witty and its not working. If Bird played with Jordan and won titles he be in the same boat actually.A great player but not top 10. Once again you're not good at being witty. [smilie=baby.gif]

You've been writing 5th grade level from the jump with the name calling so how much more remedial are you planning to get? [smilie=anxious.gif]

So is that last statement on the Marion vs Nash dispute you're official cop out?

The point of the Rice thing gutz is that whatever I say you will find something stupid to respond to it. You think that if you respond, no matter how poor or lacking your arguement, that you have upped the person you responded to. Instead you need to make points in an arguement. You have made 0 so far besides that bird played with other great players.

I'll help you out since you don'y understand debate. How about you list all the great players who won titles without another surefire HOFer on the team? Or on a real shitty team. Since he isn't a top 10 player, start with 10 of them. I'll even start you out:

1 Hakeem

I'll start it off: LOL@Rorschach

Shall we move this to the terrordome? "The official 'find people on the internet stupider than Gutz" thread?

This has nothing to do with Jerry Rice, Michael Jordan, Kevin McHale, Robert Parrish, Shaq, or anybody like that. This is all about Rorschach thinks Larry Bird is overrated just because he's white.

This has nothing to do with Jerry Rice, Michael Jordan, Kevin McHale, Robert Parrish, Shaq, or anybody like that. This is all about Rorschach thinks Larry Bird is overrated just because he's white.
You would hope so. but unfortunately i made the point that I felt McHale was more important to that team IUMO. And if you held him down you had a better shot of beating them.

Now how many more people are gonna come up with left field off the point bs? Once again if something is racially going on, maybe its with ya'll. Because I Robert Parish is the biggest bitch Made douche in Celtics history and i pick steve nash over marion for my mvp on the suns on any day.

So maybe the "its because Bird is white" cop out is the perrenial excuse ringing throughout group of people who get their panties in a bunch when you say anything even half negative about Bird. Once again Bird is overrated. And though Mchale isnt better on an individual level. I think he was more important to that dorky ass celtic squad.

You dispute this? Fine, dispute it legitimately. Something better than "well you dispute it because he's white" or my favorite well thought out reply "you're stupid".

You want terrordome talk, go make a terrordome thread and get over yourselves. Otherwise i welcome any dispute to my theory. Instead of your own theory about a conspiracy that im hating the white man. [smilie=annoyed.gif]

Aldridge is a beast. Morrison is the next Larry Bird.
he's the next overrated white boy? Great. [smilie=2thumbsup.g:87-88 BOS 76 75 39.0 .527 .414 .916 1.40 7.80 9.30 6.1 1.64 .75 2.80 2.10 29.9


What a terrible player.

I consider Bird THE greatest of all time.

[
You want terrordome talk, go make a terrordome thread and get over yourselves. Otherwise i welcome any dispute to my theory. Instead of your own theory about a conspiracy that im hating the white man. [smilie=annoyed.gif]

support it first. As I've told you before "I think" isn't an arguement.

Remember this?


for the record wally>>davis, but they gotta do something so fuck it. could this mean Pierce is next?

I thought Gutz was crazy for typing that shit. He was the only guy i knew talking that dumb shit. at the time i thought he had to be a self hating black dude to even come up with such an idiotic thought as Wally>>Davis. I can't see Wally ever being better then Davis, so he's alone on that.

However I see what he said about Bird. Now you dumb fucks wanna call him racist for not thinking Larry is great.Well i don't like Larry Bird that much either, So kiss my ass. People always talk about Larry like he's in the same boat as magic, He isn't though. Magic meant alot more to his team then Larry did for his team.

Micheal Jordan
Wilt Chamberlain
Oscar Robertson
Bill Russell
Magic Johnson
Julius Erving
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Jerry West
Hakeem Olajuwan
Shaquille O'Neal

Where does Larry Bird fit on that list?

Where does Larry Bird fit on that list?He doesn't.

He's ahead of all of them.

Where does Larry Bird fit on that list?He doesn't.

He's ahead of all of them.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

yeah... but Gutz is a racist!


funny little dude.

Are you calling me racist for thinking Bird is the greatest of all time?

Are you calling me racist for thinking Bird is the greatest of all time?

No.

i'm calling you dumb. your stupidity could be a product of racism, or it could be that your too young to even know what you're saying, or maybe you're brainwashed by danny ainge and Bill Walton. Definitely dumb though.

Thanks.

And FYI, I never called Gutz racist.

The point of the Rice thing gutz is that whatever I say you will find something stupid to respond to it.

Weird that my point on the Rice thing was pretty clear. You came up with it and it didnt apply at all to what i said. You are making excuses on that one.




You think that if you respond, no matter how poor or lacking your arguement, that you have upped the person you responded to. Instead you need to make points in an arguement. You have made 0 so far besides that bird played with other great players.

I'm glad you tried to touch on this. Because you didnt give a decent reply to the first point. Actually i dont think i've upped anybody. There you go wishing i was as egotistical about this as you. Just woulda preferred a better reply that had something to do with the original post. Didnt you start this off with the old "you're stupid" post?

And once the irony of you giving that rice and shaq scenario reply then questioning my judgement on a post is odd.



I'll help you out since you don'y understand debate. How about you list all the great players who won titles without another surefire HOFer on the team? Or on a real shitty team. Since he isn't a top 10 player, start with 10 of them. I'll even start you out:

1 Hakeem

Ah, finally a decent response. [smilie=applause.gi: Though to be on the level here. Are you asking who are the top ten and for a list of players fitting your request criteria? or both at the same time?

Since you threw out Hakeem i'm guessing you want me to cover both fields. Though theres one problem. the celtics had 3 hall of famers a couple others in his first couple years, part of my point. Though Walton didnt do jackshit. So we'll say less than 2 hall of famers for their title years(and dennis johnson is hall of fame potential player, but i'll leave him out). I shouldnt reach 10 off the top of my head though. Sorry.

Jordan
Julius erving
Wes Unseld
Lew Alcindor(Jabbar) *did it in milwaukee*
John Havlicek
And Hakeem i guess :)


Its unfortunate that the list isnt that long if we are only counting titles. But I was talking about who was a greater player. And there are a few who didnt get the NBA title because they didnt have possibly 3 hall of famers on their team.Like:

Benard King
Domnique Wilkins(yea i said it)
Calvin Murphy
Pistol Pete


Just off the top of my head. I'll have to double check a few that i wanted to say.

But nevertheless I dont feel Bird is top ten greatest. And i dont think that because he's white. I do feel having Ainge, Dennis Johnson, Kevin Mchale(Who i think is underrated), and robert parish skewed his numbers up some. But i agree that in some situations you can say the same for other great players. Only thing is that Bird never had to play that often w/o them, Jordan's only consistent help was pippen. Dominique never had a serious right hand man let alone extra help beyond that. Same for benard king.

Maybe i'm wrong but i feel if you'd put any of the SG/SF players listed on the 50 greatest list. That the celtics would be just as potent if not more excluding maybe one or two players.I actually think Rick Barry's numbers would be significantly bloated. Either way Thats just how i feel on the matter. Its not to say Bird isnt great. Shit im only dropping him out of the top 20. The way some people here are acting you'd think i woulda said Bird sucks. [smilie=annoyed.gif] If need be i'll give my top 20 in no particular order ahead of Bird for you to talk shit about if that will help you out. [smilie=artist.gif]


ps. Its pointless to off topic attack someone's writing skills, when yours haven't been all that great. Just saying.

[quote]I'll help you out since you don'y understand debate. How about you list all the great players who won titles without another surefire HOFer on the team? Or on a real shitty team. Since he isn't a top 10 player, start with 10 of them. I'll even start you out:

1 Hakeem

Ah, finally a decent response. [smilie=applause.gi: Though to be on the level here. Are you asking who are the top ten and for a list of players fitting your request criteria? or both at the same time?

Since you threw out Hakeem i'm guessing you want me to cover both fields. Though theres one problem. the celtics had 3 hall of famers a couple others in his first couple years, part of my point. Though Walton didnt do jackshit. So we'll say less than 2 hall of famers for their title years(and dennis johnson is hall of fame potential player, but i'll leave him out). I shouldnt reach 10 off the top of my head though. Sorry.

Jordan
Julius erving
Wes Unseld
Lew Alcindor(Jabbar) *did it in milwaukee*
John Havlicek
And Hakeem i guess :)


.

Jordan had Pippen, who is a HoFer, and I believe was on the top 50 list of all time.

at the time i thought he had to be a self hating black dude to even come up with such an idiotic thought as Wally>>Davis.

Well good to know you're as off as ever [smilie=artist.gif] ...I might have to back down from this debate with koolaid giving the endorsement on my take. [smilie=arrgh.jpg]


But nevertheless I don't expect many to agree with me on this, and i've had a many a long arguments with people over the subject before. But i always find it ironic that everybody plays the racist card(much like some here would accuse Kanye of doing on katrina) when i say that bird isnt that great. Not sucks, not "he shouldnt be a top 50 player". Just plain old he's overrated at where alot consider him to be. And i say alot, so i dont expect too many to feel me. In fact i expected the "you're a racist Bird Hater" talk some threw at me to happen. Thats the unfortunate part. Its like walking into a 2004 republican convention and saying Bush made a couple mistakes on this war thing. [smilie=anxious.gif]

Jordan had Pippen, who is a HoFer, and I believe was on the top 50 list of all time.
I know, read it thouroughly please. [smilie=baby.gif]

This started with Morrison and ended with Bird. Wayyyyy off topic.

But here is my top 10 players of all time

Magic
Jordan
Wilt
Bird
KAJ
Russel
Oscar Robertson
Julius Erving
Kobe Bryant(Come on, 81 in this day and age is sick, good teammates or no good teammates)
Shaq

at the time i thought he had to be a self hating black dude to even come up with such an idiotic thought as Wally>>Davis.

Well good to know you're as off as ever [smilie=artist.gif] ...I might have to back down from this debate with koolaid giving the endorsement on my take. [smilie=arrgh.jpg]


But nevertheless I don't expect many to agree with me on this, and i've had a many a long arguments with people over the subject before. But i always find it ironic that everybody plays the racist card(much like some here would accuse Kanye of doing on katrina) when i say that bird isnt that great. Not sucks, not "he shouldnt be a top 50 player". Just plain old he's overrated at where alot consider him to be. And i say alot, so i dont expect too many to feel me. In fact i expected the "you're a racist Bird Hater" talk some threw at me to happen. Thats the unfortunate part. Its like walking into a 2004 republican convention and saying Bush made a couple mistakes on this war thing. [smilie=anxious.gif]

You're the one who turned it into a race issue when you called him an "overrated white boy".

I swear to God, I wonder how you breathe and walk at the same time...

You're the one who turned it into a race issue when you called him an "overrated white boy".

I swear to God, I wonder how you breathe and walk at the same time...


you don't think he wanted to stir things up? He had to see it coming.

There's a difference between racist and racially aware though.


He stated an obvious fact though. Alot of white dudes were rooting for Bird strictly because of his race. You'd have to be some sort of fool to not think that was going on. Naturally you hype up whoever you root for more then they do, just like homerism except this had a racial undertone in the Magic vs. Bird era. How can that be denied?

That doesn't mean Larry Bird isn't great but it does make him over rated. He was the best white player in the league, and perhaps the whitest player in the league period. However if he chose to play checkers instead of basketball, there would be another white dude to take his place as the great white hope.




hehe, This thread is soooo lost.

You're the one who turned it into a race issue when you called him an "overrated white boy".

I swear to God, I wonder how you breathe and walk at the same time...
You're serious? LOL.

So you tried to equate me to being racist on Bird from that? So if i woulda used the term "Funky whiteboy" or said "Whiteboy had game"(which i'd totally use the latter for rick barry would their still be such an equation?

Nevertheless if that throws you off, I'll hold back on calling Bird whiteboy. Now thats out the way. You have something else you dont "get"?

ps-I do have trouble with patting my head and rubbing by belly at the same time while chewing gum and flying a helicopter. But dont hold it against me. [smilie=artist.gif]

Naturally you hype up whoever you root for more then they do, just like homerism except this had a racial undertone in the Magic vs. Bird era. How can that be denied?
.
See now you're taking it to the unspoken touchy part of that era.

Though its not in my nature to not talk about these things. I'm not talking about it. It takes away from the basketball element and ends up in the off topic forum next to the old kanye thread. All Im saying is that Bird is overrated If you put him up their with the upper echelon of the greatest NBA players of all time. And the last thing my opinion on that is, is racist.


Actually i feel Mchale and Rick Barry are very underrated. Barry defied the curse of the warriors on sheer will. [smilie=arrgh.jpg]

Also Jerry West and Elgin Baylor might've been the closest you'd get to jordan and pippen from the throwback era. Though jordan and Pippen didnt need Wilt Chamberlain to get to the finals.

I hate Larry Bird to death. He's the devil. He was a Celtic and now he's a Pacer. FUCK YOU LARRY BIRD.

CALL YOUR DAUGHTER LARRY!!!

I hate Larry Bird to death. He's the devil. He was a Celtic and now he's a Pacer. FUCK YOU LARRY BIRD.
LMAO...well Yea he is and has always been a prick and a never gave the pistons respect for beating the celtics. Him and Parish are two of the most sore loser sour muthafuckas i've ever seen with championship rings..Besides Darko.

CALL YOUR DAUGHTER LARRY!!!

Damn it! I just got here and by the third post on page 1 I was already planning that to be my contribution to this thread! Damn your furious styles!

Gutz, now that you've qualified your original statement (even before you defended it) its not so controversial. Its easy to leave any great player off a "The Very Best Top 10 List". And while you've never come off as racist to me before, it shouldn't be hard for you to see how someone coming out with simply "Bird is an overrated white boy" and nothing else (your first post) can be seen as degrading the guy soley because he's white (after all, it looked like you were saying he wasn't a great player. Since all you are saying is that he's just not in the group you'd call the summit of NBA talent ever, the derogatory shadow of the original comment is lifted).

Way to get the entire assassin family after you so quick. That's pretty impressive.

Also, no shit there were plenty of Bostontonians (and other whites) rooting for Bird with their life's breath to beat the "darky". Just like there were plenty of blacks cheering for Magic to beat the "honky".

Finally, LOL @ Mikey. Bird wasn't even the best player of his era.

Gutz, now that you've qualified your original statement (even before you defended it) its not so controversial. Its easy to leave any great player off a "The Very Best Top 10 List". And while you've never come off as racist to me before, it shouldn't be hard for you to see how someone coming out with simply "Bird is an overrated white boy" and nothing else (your first post) can be seen as degrading the guy soley because he's white (after all, it looked like you were saying he wasn't a great player. Since all you are saying is that he's just not in the group you'd call the summit of NBA talent ever, the derogatory shadow of the original comment is lifted).

Way to get the entire assassin family after you so quick. That's pretty impressive.

Also, no shit there were plenty of Bostontonians (and other whites) rooting for Bird with their life's breath to beat the "darky". Just like there were plenty of blacks cheering for Magic to beat the "honky".

Finally, LOL @ Mikey. Bird wasn't even the best player of his era.
No he wasnt. But either way, i still find it odd that anyone who "carefully" read posts would equate the overrated whiteboy to my statement to Bird sucks because he's white. As far as I saw it, was no different than me calling Rick Barry the underrated Whiteboy with game. Excuse my lack of political correctness though.
Funny thing about it is that i never rooted for either Bird or magic. i thought Bird was what boring was all about. In fact when i watch old Celtics highlights, i realize Boston was more boring than the Spurs possibly unless u8nless they were playing a physical tean(which they hated to do). but as a team much like the spurs they were clutch i begrudgingly say. And magic was cool, but watching him battle bird was the most boring rivalry i've seen with only a couple moments i found enjoyable.

Honestly people around my way wanted magic to beat bird because he got double the acclaim for everything he did right, and half the blame for everything he did wrong in the national media. That alone was enough even before you approached the racial undertones(though in the end they were related). Then the disrespect they gave to the Pistons in the Mid 80's didn't help. But I couldnt stand any of the celtics. Actually Parish was my most hated with Bird 2nd and Walton 3rd with his parkay bench riding cheerleading to the hall of fame ass.

Either way I dont apologize for my first statement though i didnt mean it with racial intent like some might have hoped. But im glad the line of communication is rebuilding, I think.


Way to get the entire assassin family after you so quick. That's pretty impressive.
Thank you, its always better to have everyone attack you, and its good to see me and NQ not agree from time to time. And scarey to see me and koolaid agree from time to time. [smilie=anxious.gif]


ps=Boston is the birth place of the overrating phenomenom. these guys damn near ripped their seats out of the floor on a layup back in the day. And the aroma of that homerism is still there. either way bird is a pacer, a celtic, and a prick. im done talking about him for the next 2 months.

Bird helped ressurect the Celtics, as Jeter had helped resurrect the Yankees, and Magic had helped resurrect the Lakers.

Legendary team fallen on hard times in a big market + talented player = potential legend. Bird was NOT the greatest player of his time, but he was the best player on one of the great teams of his time, along with the phoenom that was Magic and the "other" great team of it's time -- the Lakers.

The NBA had a helluva time at it in the 70's. The Knicks v. The Lakers early on was good, but it didn't last. All sports need a dominant team to hate (i.e., the Yankees), and by the mid 70's there was none in the NBA, and profit was down.

Magic v. Bird in the 79 Tourney was electric, and the Association wished to carry that forward into the 80's. Bird WAS a great player, but not the best of the 80's. Neither was Magic. But both played in major markets, on famous franchises, and that helped a great deal.

Just ask 'nique.

For the record:

I hate Bird. I hate his looks. I think he gives white people a bad rap by being so damn ugly. I hate the Celtics. Etc.

Having said that, I disagree with Gutz, and here's why. There's only a few players I've seen carry their team in the playoffs, either while injured, or while the team's best player was injured.

The three players that stick out most in my mind as guys who will win the game for you no matter who their teammates are, no matter how injured they are, no matter what position you force them to play, etc., are Magic, Bird, and Isiah.

I thought Bird was overrated until I saw him carry his team through the playoffs on his broken back.

The guy was amazing, talented, gifted, clutch, hardcore, a warrior, skilled, savvy, etc.

Definitely top 10 of all time. Perhaps top 5.

And yes, one of the ugliest country goobers to walk the face of the earth.

For the record:

I hate Bird. I hate his looks. I think he gives white people a bad rap by being so damn ugly. I hate the Celtics. Etc.

Having said that, I disagree with Gutz, and here's why. There's only a few players I've seen carry their team in the playoffs, either while injured, or while the team's best player was injured.

The three players that stick out most in my mind as guys who will win the game for you no matter who their teammates are, no matter how injured they are, no matter what position you force them to play, etc., are Magic, Bird, and Isiah.

I thought Bird was overrated until I saw him carry his team through the playoffs on his broken back.

The guy was amazing, talented, gifted, clutch, hardcore, a warrior, skilled, savvy, etc.

Definitely top 10 of all time. Perhaps top 5.

And yes, one of the ugliest country goobers to walk the face of the earth.
Fair enough. But once again i still think that he didnt do as much carrying as some do. And i hope you arent talking bout that head bouncing incident in the pacers series. If so i definately felt that was an exaggerated something serious. Now medical proof that he "broke" his back. Just "well i thought my back might be broke" from him talking out the side of his mouth.

Maybe we are mixed up on timing of what injury though. If not i have to disagree about how much "courage" he was throwing on the court vs how much he was fabricating in his mind. [smilie=arrgh.jpg]

Nevertheless Top 5? I cant see it. But to each his own. Do you think Bird was greater than Rick Barry out of curiousity? Or Julius Erving?



I think he gives white people a bad rap by being so damn ugly.
Damn there are limits to how far we need to personally bash this prick. [smilie=anxious.gif]

Ugly or not, i will say he was a warrior to an extent as were most players in that era with the NBA being more of a warrior league. Isiah's badly sprained ankle didnt make him what he was IMO. Nor did his performance on it. Its his performance regardless. If you feel Bird was the broken back warrior for a stretch run and because of that he automatcically jumps 20 or so spots in the all time great list. I think you're unfairly giving alot of extra credit.

Or maybe you were just making one example of what you feel was a warrior-esque career for Bird. Either way the warrior factor is being given a little bit too much factor into the judgement of All Time greatests, Willis Reed's going on the court was great for a story, but doesnt make him any better in my mind.

JMHO though.

Yeah, and Rice played football too. Way off. Thats brilliant. Great point. So if Bird had played with Jordan and won titles you would be sucking him off, but you don't believe he would have?

I'll think more about writing at a 5th grade level for you.

Please don't revisit the Marion debate, you can't write. Less from you is more.

Ok Hermy is mad and i dont care.

You brought up Rice. Your point that he plays football is pretty retarded. You are trying to be witty and its not working. If Bird played with Jordan and won titles he be in the same boat actually.A great player but not top 10. Once again you're not good at being witty. [smilie=baby.gif]

You've been writing 5th grade level from the jump with the name calling so how much more remedial are you planning to get? [smilie=anxious.gif]

So is that last statement on the Marion vs Nash dispute you're official cop out?

The point of the Rice thing gutz is that whatever I say you will find something stupid to respond to it. You think that if you respond, no matter how poor or lacking your arguement, that you have upped the person you responded to. Instead you need to make points in an arguement. You have made 0 so far besides that bird played with other great players.

I'll help you out since you don'y understand debate. How about you list all the great players who won titles without another surefire HOFer on the team? Or on a real shitty team. Since he isn't a top 10 player, start with 10 of them. I'll even start you out:

1 Hakeem

Hakeem had Clyde one year....he also had comparable role players to DJ and Ainge in Vernon Maxwell and Kenny Smith.

Hakeem had Clyde one year....and you know they'll try to get Horry in the hall some way.

Horry doesn't deserve it though as clutch as he is, and i dont think he'd make it myself. If he does im done half way respecting the hall of fame process.

No question in my mind Bird was better than Dr. J. He's the guy I'd take off Kool-Aids list to add Bird, and i imagine most folks making the list would put Bird at 6-12 while Erving could go from 10-25. Hard to jusge the talent level of those ABA teams he played for and by the time he got to the NBA he was really Vince Carter with a great attitude.

No question in my mind Bird was better than Dr. J. He's the guy I'd take off Kool-Aids list to add Bird, and i imagine most folks making the list would put Bird at 6-12 while Erving could go from 10-25. Hard to jusge the talent level of those ABA teams he played for and by the time he got to the NBA he was really Vince Carter with a great attitude.
What? Vince? Erving did more than score and was by far more of a leader.

To each his own. No question in your mind is a pretty strong statement on that.

Bird helped ressurect the Celtics, as Jeter had helped resurrect the Yankees, and Magic had helped resurrect the Lakers.

Legendary team fallen on hard times in a big market + talented player = potential legend. Bird was NOT the greatest player of his time, but he was the best player on one of the great teams of his time, along with the phoenom that was Magic and the "other" great team of it's time -- the Lakers.

The NBA had a helluva time at it in the 70's. The Knicks v. The Lakers early on was good, but it didn't last. All sports need a dominant team to hate (i.e., the Yankees), and by the mid 70's there was none in the NBA, and profit was down.

Magic v. Bird in the 79 Tourney was electric, and the Association wished to carry that forward into the 80's. Bird WAS a great player, but not the best of the 80's. Neither was Magic. But both played in major markets, on famous franchises, and that helped a great deal.

Just ask 'nique.

I'll co-sign that. Though that makes me wonder...Gutz, where is Magic on your all time list?

I'll co-sign that. Though that makes me wonder...Gutz, where is Magic on your all time list?

Interesting question. somewhere between 10 and 20 probally.

I'll co-sign that. Though that makes me wonder...Gutz, where is Magic on your all time list?

Interesting question. somewhere between 10 and 20 probally.

Wow, you don't have magic in the top 10? I don't have his stats handy, but I do know that he's the best assist man ever (don't pay any attention to mr play a million years Marc Jackson), a great scorer, and could play every position on the floor. Without really thinking about it, Magic and Bird would be in my top 5 with MJ, with Bird being in the top 5-10 at worst.

I'll co-sign that. Though that makes me wonder...Gutz, where is Magic on your all time list?

Interesting question. somewhere between 10 and 20 probally.

Wow, you don't have magic in the top 10? I don't have his stats handy, but I do know that he's the best assist man ever (don't pay any attention to mr play a million years Marc Jackson), a great scorer, and could play every position on the floor. Without really thinking about it, Magic and Bird would be in my top 5 with MJ, with Bird being in the top 5-10 at worst.
Yea the best assist man to Worthy and Kareem. But i dont think being 10-20 drops him all that far. If i look over and come up with an exact list he may rise up above 10. Like you i dont have everyone in front of me and am too lazy to do so.

Also stockton i begrudglingly say is the best assist guy of that era. Also Oscar Robertson may be the best ever and he definately makes my top ten.

No question in my mind Bird was better than Dr. J. He's the guy I'd take off Kool-Aids list to add Bird

Dr.J showed he could do so much more, He paved the way for Jordan. Bird proved he could hit open jumpers with mchale in the post.

No question in my mind Bird was better than Dr. J. He's the guy I'd take off Kool-Aids list to add Bird

Dr.J showed he could do so much more, He paved the way for Jordan. Bird proved he could hit open jumpers with mchale in the post.

No need to belittle Bird like Hermy tried to do Dr J with the VC comment.

Bird was great feeding off McHale and was a great player in his own right. But not better than Dr J by any means IMO. Or a slew of NBA greats in the 50 all time greatest list.

Gutz.

1980 championship.

Kareem goes out.

The rookie guard take his place at center.

Blows the game up.

Lakers win.

Top five, ever. Period!



But I still think World B. Free was a better player.

No question in my mind Bird was better than Dr. J. He's the guy I'd take off Kool-Aids list to add Bird, and i imagine most folks making the list would put Bird at 6-12 while Erving could go from 10-25. Hard to jusge the talent level of those ABA teams he played for and by the time he got to the NBA he was really Vince Carter with a great attitude.
What? Vince? Erving did more than score and was by far more of a leader.

To each his own. No question in your mind is a pretty strong statement on that.

Vince does more than score. He's just a bitch and a loser about it. I said DrJ had a great attitude. I was clear. Why say something about being a leader Gutz? Why can't we have a discussion about anything? Like I've said before, I don't think you read my posts, you just fill in fluff.

Shall I say Pierce or another highflyer whos great but not ubergreat? Dude was good, but he wasn't Bird. Honestly the name thats getting ignored on these lists is Malone who no one would say wasn't better than McHale and Parish.

Benard King
Domnique Wilkins(yea i said it)
Calvin Murphy
Pistol Pete

How has this list been ignored? Nobody? Calvin Murphy? King?

[smilie=arnold.gif] @ this whole thread.

And to maintain the tone of this thread I'd like to say that Bill Walton>Wilt. The Stilt was just another overrated negro.

Yea the best assist man to Worthy and Kareem. But i dont think being 10-20 drops him all that far. If i look over and come up with an exact list he may rise up above 10. Like you i dont have everyone in front of me and am too lazy to do so.

Also stockton i begrudglingly say is the best assist guy of that era. Also Oscar Robertson may be the best ever and he definately makes my top ten.

So because he had worthy and Kareem, that makes him not good? MJ had Pippen, Stockton had Malone. Does that take away from their accomplishments? In reality, they all made each other better players. Magic made Worthy a much better player, and vice versa. What about Kobe and Shaq? You put them on there but clearly they had each other.

Look at the numbers. Magic's career numbers are 20 PPG, 7 RPG, 11 APG, 2 SPG, on %52 shooting from the field. That's plain crazy.

No question in my mind Bird was better than Dr. J. He's the guy I'd take off Kool-Aids list to add Bird, and i imagine most folks making the list would put Bird at 6-12 while Erving could go from 10-25. Hard to jusge the talent level of those ABA teams he played for and by the time he got to the NBA he was really Vince Carter with a great attitude.
What? Vince? Erving did more than score and was by far more of a leader.

To each his own. No question in your mind is a pretty strong statement on that.

Vince does more than score. He's just a bitch and a loser about it. I said DrJ had a great attitude. I was clear. Why say something about being a leader Gutz? Why can't we have a discussion about anything? Like I've said before, I don't think you read my posts, you just fill in fluff.

Shall I say Pierce or another highflyer whos great but not ubergreat? Dude was good, but he wasn't Bird. Honestly the name thats getting ignored on these lists is Malone who no one would say wasn't better than McHale and Parish.
I read just fine. Maybe we arent on the same wavelength. Because you felt i should take for granted VC doing more than scoring. But thats about what he's worth. He's so bad at getting his teammates involved and doing more than scoring, that his coach told him not to worry about it anymore. But you seem to think he does more than scoring, so thats why you made the comparisom i guess. But sorry, i doubt you'd find many willing to make that comparisom excluding VC or Nets fans. But who knows maybe some feel VC's game is in the mold of Dr J. I wouldnt be one of them.

I'm glad you brought up Malone. Probally the best PF in the post ever(PF that is not Center) with Mchale right behind him IMO. and Mchale with Parish combined >>>Malone though Malone>them both individually. This coupled with Boston having better help in the backcourt and on the bench ties in to what i'm saying. That team was a monster, an annoying one at that. And better than the Sixers title team by far who were Dr J and Malone for the most part.


Why say something about being a leader Gutz?

Because he was and VC wasnt. Didnt know you took me calling him a leader in an abrasive manner. Are you looking for another angle to make a gripe about me? Well whatever the reasoning, i'm not being abrasive in that comment unfortunately. Just stating is all. [smilie=2thumbsup.g:


Why can't we have a discussion about anything?

Thats what we are doing. But you seem to really get irked that i dont agree with you on some of your basketball takes. I honestly dont mind myself when it comes to other peoples take.

But to answer your question, alot of times we lack level discussions because of your own instinct to drop a "you're a dope" or "you're stupid if you think that" post to start off a discussion. Those dont really qualify as discussing.

But for the record, you think VC does alot of the same things in the mold of DR J(not actually calling him Dr J of course)?
And we(me and kollaid) took it as belittling him because VC isnt do much more than scoring from what we've seen. whether he's a dickhead or not.

Fair enough if thats your take. Also ABA wasn't low level or even mid level talent IMO. I liken it to AFL/NFL merger scenarios. It wasnt CBA farm system competition going on. They were a serious pro league just as much as the NBA in talent I feel. Can't completely fault you looking there to discredit Erving being a top 10 candidate. But I see nothing to count his ABA days against him.

[smilie=arnold.gif] @ this whole thread.

And to maintain the tone of this thread I'd like to say that Bill Walton>Wilt. The Stilt was just another overrated negro.
Diddy you're late. And still stuck on the first page. All you've maintained is that you read about one post. Good Work.

I don't believe you read my posts. Can't. Completely ignored them.

Yea the best assist man to Worthy and Kareem. But i dont think being 10-20 drops him all that far. If i look over and come up with an exact list he may rise up above 10. Like you i dont have everyone in front of me and am too lazy to do so.

Also stockton i begrudglingly say is the best assist guy of that era. Also Oscar Robertson may be the best ever and he definately makes my top ten.

So because he had worthy and Kareem, that makes him not good? MJ had Pippen, Stockton had Malone. Does that take away from their accomplishments? In reality, they all made each other better players. Magic made Worthy a much better player, and vice versa. What about Kobe and Shaq? You put them on there but clearly they had each other.

Look at the numbers. Magic's career numbers are 20 PPG, 7 RPG, 11 APG, 2 SPG, on %52 shooting from the field. That's plain crazy.



So because he had worthy and Kareem, that makes him not good?

Whoa!! Slow down grasshopper. I never said not good. I didnt even say not great. One thing to remember is that all the players involved in this debate are not only great but some of the greater upper echelon of league history. I'm referring to the spots on that list. I'm not really taking much away from anybody since the zone we are discussing is placement from 1-30 on the greatest.

Also Lew Alcindor/Jabbar was laying the law down and had his bling before magic hit the league. But no, im not bashing anyone honestly. I think its sad that its taken that way when you dont put Bird in the top 10 all time. They act theres a weak link between 1 and 30. [smilie=anxious.gif]

So what makes Magic not top 10 then? You said Magic isn't top 10 because he played with two HOF players. Doesn't that make it harder to put up great numbers? Look at AI, or Lebron. Would they put up 30 a night with TD or KG on their team? No way. Look at Kobe. No shaq, no malone, no payton=81 points. If anything, it makes Magic that much more amazing that he can put up 20 points and 7 rebounds with 2 HOF players taking shots away from him. Granted, the assists numbers are certainly helped by them, so I won't argue that.

But that's just my opinion. I feel it's easier to put up numbers without a supporting cast. Harder to win, easier to stat pad. Look at Al Harrington. He's no HOF player, but clearly you can put up stats with nobody around you.

So what makes Magic not top 10 then? You said Magic isn't top 10 because he played with two HOF players. Doesn't that make it harder to put up great numbers? Look at AI, or Lebron. Would they put up 30 a night with TD or KG on their team? No way. Look at Kobe. No shaq, no malone, no payton=81 points. If anything, it makes Magic that much more amazing that he can put up 20 points and 7 rebounds with 2 HOF players taking shots away from him. Granted, the assists numbers are certainly helped by them, so I won't argue that.

But that's just my opinion. I feel it's easier to put up numbers without a supporting cast. Harder to win, easier to stat pad. Look at Al Harrington. He's no HOF player, but clearly you can put up stats with nobody around you.
good point. I do think its a serious accomplishment to score on a team full of scorers. and im not saying that to be sarcastic. Though i do think in the celtics scenario they were more than just hall of fame scoring help.

What i was actually referring to was the claim that magic was the greatest passer because of his assist total. But with that said he was a great passer. Not better than stockton or robertson, but great. And i think its the bloat on his passing numbers that puts him at the edge of 10 for me. Granted though, I do think its legitimate theory to rate him higher. But i'm still about the edge of 10 on him myself. Either way i mostly agree about his game.


But that's just my opinion. I feel it's easier to put up numbers without a supporting cast. Harder to win, easier to stat pad. Look at Al Harrington. He's no HOF player, but clearly you can put up stats with nobody around you
I agree to an extent. But if you and maybe one other guy are all that your team has.And dont have a situation like the lakers or celtics of the 80's. Then i think theres accomplishment in making your team competitive for the title and in some cases winning it. I may have to scratch Bernard King down a lil further on my list though with that in mind. Made his teams better, but never really elite competitively. Though if he hadnt shattered his knee whose to say that he wouldnt have. tough to say.

good point. I do think its a serious accomplishment to score on a team full of scorers. and im not saying that to be sarcastic. Though i do think in the celtics scenario they were more than just hall of fame scoring help.

What i was actually referring to was the claim that magic was the greatest passer because of his assist total. But with that said he was a great passer. Not better than stockton or robertson, but great. And i think its the bloat on his passing numbers that puts him at the edge of 10 for me. Granted though, I do think its legitimate theory to rate him higher. But i'm still about the edge of 10 on him myself. Either way i mostly agree about his game.

Actually, I think Stockton's numbers are a little bloated. He just ran the pick and roll with the all time scoring leader for 17 years. That will rack up assists real fast. Yes, Stockton is a top 3 passer all time, but his numbers are far more bloated than Magic's. He played 6 more years than Magic. Jackson's are barely higher than Magic with 4 extra years. I never saw Oscar play, not sure if you did, so I can't comment on him. Magic did average 1 APG more than Stockton did over his career though and 2 more than Oscar.

Stockton had the #2 all-time scorer?

Hmm, that's funny. Magic played with the #1 all-time scorer. Don't see anyone trying to say he's overrated.

As for Stockton, he's the all-time leader in assists AND steals. That's beyond impressive.

I don't think Stockton's better than Magic, Oscar or Zeke on the all-time list of best PGs, but it's just wrong to say he isn't in their class.

As for Bird, yes he played with other great players, but almost every great player benefitted from at least one other great player on his team. The fact remains Bird was a 3-time MVP and 2-time finals MVP. Overrated? He's arguably the best small forward of all time.

The guy used to tell the guy guarding him WHERE he was going to take the last shot from, and then he'd hit it anyway. Ask Xavier McDaniel about that.

As for Bird, yes he played with other great players, but almost every great player benefitted from at least one other great player on his team. The fact remains Bird was a 3-time MVP and 2-time finals MVP. Overrated? He's arguably the best small forward of all time..
I understand your point on stockton. But Bird didnt have just one great player helping out like a majority did. Dude had possible 3 hall of famers on the court with him. I think the Celtics were bigger than bird. As far as best SF? Wasn't Rick Barry a SF? I'll double check but he was better than Bird IMO. but bird's top ten SF. not the best.

Who gives a fuck where Bird ranks All-Time?

How about we debate why the league has fucked over Nique for all these years?

Stockton had the #2 all-time scorer?

Hmm, that's funny. Magic played with the #1 all-time scorer. Don't see anyone trying to say he's overrated.

As for Stockton, he's the all-time leader in assists AND steals. That's beyond impressive.

I don't think Stockton's better than Magic, Oscar or Zeke on the all-time list of best PGs, but it's just wrong to say he isn't in their class.

To be fair, Magic only player with Kareem for the last 10 years of Kareem's career. Stockton played with Malone for the first 17 years of Malone's career. And I never said Stockton was overrated. Rorschach said Magic's numbers were inflated, so I was comparing him to another great PG of his era. I was mearly pointing out that his numbers are no more inflated than Stocktons were, and thus Magic should get his just due.

Wow.... Read the first two pages and this is what I have to say.

Rorschach, if you truly believe that Bird's not a Top 10 player of all time, "maybe" a Top 50 of all time, and overrated, you should consider joining the Knicks fanbase because only they could come up with something just as retarded. Sorry man.... You seem like a decent guy, but for the dumb shit you just sprouted, man, unbelievable.

Never mind the guy's MVP's. Never mind the guy's clutch performances that's the stuff of legends. Never mind the fact that he made those around him better (that honky was riding nobody's coattails.) What you still have is a guy who got more out of his pathetic body than anybody could have....

I thought people here appreciated toughness? Well there was nobody tougher than Larry.... Even with his back falling apart, the guy was still the same old Larry.... diving for looseballs that even scrubs wouldn't go for and just hustling all game. The guy was a winner. There's no other fucking way around it. Whether the situation, he found ways to win. Like I said before, he made the guys around him better. I don't think there was a better point forward in the history of this league than Bird and the number of players who have higher basketball IQ's than him can probably be counted on one hand.

And another thing.... He wasn't a good man to man defender, that part's true. But he was a terrific team defender.... He knew the nuances behind correct positioning and funneling your man once he drives by you. Despite his pathetic athleticism, he was still always a threat with the passing lanes.

As for Bird, yes he played with other great players, but almost every great player benefitted from at least one other great player on his team. The fact remains Bird was a 3-time MVP and 2-time finals MVP. Overrated? He's arguably the best small forward of all time..
I understand your point on stockton. But Bird didnt have just one great player helping out like a majority did. Dude had possible 3 hall of famers on the court with him. I think the Celtics were bigger than bird. As far as best SF? Wasn't Rick Barry a SF? I'll double check but he was better than Bird IMO. but bird's top ten SF. not the best.

Rick Barry? Get the fuck out of here. I hate Larry Legend but come on, he's easily top 5 or so all time. He was a great, great player.

Who gives a fuck where Bird ranks All-Time?

How about we debate why the league has fucked over Nique for all these years?

Because he never got past the second round.
End of new thread topic.

Wow.... Read the first two pages and this is what I have to say.

Rorschach, if you truly believe that Bird's not a Top 10 player of all time, "maybe" a Top 50 of all time, and overrated, you should consider joining the Knicks fanbase because only they could come up with something just as retarded. Sorry man.... You seem like a decent guy, but for the dumb shit you just sprouted, man, unbelievable.

Never mind the guy's MVP's. Never mind the guy's clutch performances that's the stuff of legends. Never mind the fact that he made those around him better (that honky was riding nobody's coattails.) What you still have is a guy who got more out of his pathetic body than anybody could have....

I thought people here appreciated toughness? Well there was nobody tougher than Larry.... Even with his back falling apart, the guy was still the same old Larry.... diving for looseballs that even scrubs wouldn't go for and just hustling all game. The guy was a winner. There's no other fucking way around it. Whether the situation, he found ways to win. Like I said before, he made the guys around him better. I don't think there was a better point forward in the history of this league than Bird and the number of players who have higher basketball IQ's than him can probably be counted on one hand.

And another thing.... He wasn't a good man to man defender, that part's true. But he was a terrific team defender.... He knew the nuances behind correct positioning and funneling your man once he drives by you. Despite his pathetic athleticism, he was still always a threat with the passing lanes.
Yep he's a bball braniac. But not top ten player. LOL@the back falling apart. Sounds like Bird bias is deep into your pocket. And i send that to you for your opening comment more than anything. And bullshit on Him making MacHale better or parish for that matter. Thats expecially bs bias. And as far as team defense is concerned. Yep he was great at getting steals. But he got burned for his efforts alot of times too just like most other big time theft guys with no one on one defensive skills.

See he hurt his back and its called "his back was falling apart". he was a big gambler for steals its called"great team defender". The dramatics involved on these things are part of the hype that surrounds the guy. Honestly I'm not trying to change minds expecially when people are using a stack of overhype adjectives to describe Bird's every move like he was BBall Jesus. I was giving my point of view on him. boo fucking hoo if it isnt popular.

I just said that he's overrated IMO. Then muthafuckas got in riot mode as if i shitted on his legacy. Case 'n Point TPTM is the 2nd guy coming in late to run back to the first page flinging anger poop at me for being honest. I even stated my background on why i think he's overrated. I bring up the same scenarios you just did. But i look at them w/o all the hoopla like "great team defender" bs to hide that overall it was far from his strong suit and average would be the best you could say about it.

But at this point fuck it. i see everyone's gonna take it as a "bird sucks because he's white" thing if you put him any lower than top 10 [smilie=baby.gif] ...so i'll be stuck defending shit i didnt say for 5 more pages depending on how many bird overhype psychos come in here losing their muthafucking minds when they hear the phrase "Bird is overrated". Props to WTFChris, Fool, Vinny, and whoever else brought level headed discussion. And free celtics jerseys for anyone else running in here sideways to defend their beloved Bird from the travesty i've brought to his passionately overhyped honor. [smilie=djparty.gif] [smilie=starwars.gi: [smilie=stern_sig.g: [smilie=faeuste_bal:

If anyone else has something actually worth something pm it. im done with this thread grandson.

racist.

Republican.

For the record, I never liked Bird. But he is what he is.

And about his steals, AI does the same thing Rorschach (gambles to get his steals). Does that diminish the player that is AI?

LOL@DevinJubei

Dude says some of the craziest shit ever, gets called out, and then starts mumbling shit nobody can understand.

Larry Bird is a great player.

I'd trade Rip for Kobe 50 days a week.

Stop being such an idiot.

For the record, I never liked Bird. But he is what he is.

And about his steals, AI does the same thing Rorschach (gambles to get his steals). Does that diminish the player that is AI?


Actually i'd say that Iverson and Bird are pretty comparable all around. Iverson was given so much less though.

Glad you said that.

LOL@DevinJubei

Dude says some of the craziest shit ever, gets called out, and then starts mumbling shit nobody can understand.

Larry Bird is a great player.

I'd trade Rip for Kobe 50 days a week.

Stop being such an idiot. [smilie=applause.gi: [smilie=applause.gi: [smilie=applause.gi: [smilie=applause.gi:









I like that so much you deserve 12 more claps.




[smilie=applause.gi: [smilie=applause.gi: [smilie=applause.gi: [smilie=applause.gi: [smilie=applause.gi: [smilie=applause.gi: [smilie=applause.gi: [smilie=applause.gi: [smilie=applause.gi: [smilie=applause.gi: [smilie=applause.gi: [smilie=applause.gi:

Classic Gutz Callahan.



(If anyone has any comments about this post, PM me, I'm out of this thread)

Classic Gutz Callahan.



(If anyone has any comments about this post, PM me, I'm out of this thread)

Pussy. [smilie=404.gif]

Does that diminish the player that is AI?

Hells naw! AI keeps it real, son. Hes ill as hell. He's got that bomb ass pigment in his skin, son, how can he not be great?

For the record, I never liked Bird. But he is what he is.

And about his steals, AI does the same thing Rorschach (gambles to get his steals). Does that diminish the player that is AI?


Actually i'd say that Iverson and Bird are pretty comparable all around. Iverson was given so much less though.

Glad you said that.

The problem for AI is the lack of rings. He's one of the best ever, but if he'd won a couple rings then he'd be held in a much higher light I think. Look at Ewing and Barkley. While they aren't in the same league as Bird, they certainly suffered from not ever winning it all.

No question in my mind Bird was better than Dr. J. He's the guy I'd take off Kool-Aids list to add Bird, and i imagine most folks making the list would put Bird at 6-12 while Erving could go from 10-25. Hard to jusge the talent level of those ABA teams he played for and by the time he got to the NBA he was really Vince Carter with a great attitude.
What? Vince? Erving did more than score and was by far more of a leader.

To each his own. No question in your mind is a pretty strong statement on that.

Vince does more than score. He's just a bitch and a loser about it. I said DrJ had a great attitude. I was clear. Why say something about being a leader Gutz? Why can't we have a discussion about anything? Like I've said before, I don't think you read my posts, you just fill in fluff.

Shall I say Pierce or another highflyer whos great but not ubergreat? Dude was good, but he wasn't Bird. Honestly the name thats getting ignored on these lists is Malone who no one would say wasn't better than McHale and Parish.

Not only mentioning Malone, but Dr. J was on one of the most talent laden teams during the era and his leadership totalled ONE ring, that team should have dominated that decade yet they just came up short year after year. I know they had 4 all stars one season and probably could have made a strong case 5. I pretty surprised you could diss Bird for playing with McHale (in a way..) yet turn around and talk about how great Dr. J was, to me, he's Nique with a much better team.

It's crazy how people still don't give The Great White Hope any props, and a lot of it is due to race.

He's one of two players to have five straight 20/10/5 seasons, making him one of(if not the) most versatile big man(or forward, whatever floats your boat) ever. He did a lot of work on the perimeter and was a perenial 50% shooter, which is fucking amazing. He is the definition of clutch, the best ever at that category. He's achieved every accolade that many players can only dream of: championships, MVPs, gold medals, a porn star mustache, final MVPs, the Hall of Fame.

He is easily a top 10 player on stats alone. Denying that is wacksauce.

It's crazy how people still don't give The Great White Hope any props, and a lot of it is due to race.

He's one of two players to have five straight 20/10/5 seasons, making him one of(if not the) most versatile big man(or forward, whatever floats your boat) ever. He did a lot of work on the perimeter and was a perenial 50% shooter, which is fucking amazing. He is the definition of clutch, the best ever at that category. He's achieved every accolade that many players can only dream of: championships, MVPs, gold medals, a porn star mustache, final MVPs, the Hall of Fame.

He is easily a top 10 player on stats alone. Denying that is wacksauce.

Maybe the best post you've ever made, IMO.

Welcome back.

It's crazy how people still don't give The Great White Hope any props, and a lot of it is due to race.

He's one of two players to have five straight 20/10/5 seasons, making him one of(if not the) most versatile big man(or forward, whatever floats your boat) ever. He did a lot of work on the perimeter and was a perenial 50% shooter, which is fucking amazing. He is the definition of clutch, the best ever at that category. He's achieved every accolade that many players can only dream of: championships, MVPs, gold medals, a porn star mustache, final MVPs, the Hall of Fame.

He is easily a top 10 player on stats alone. Denying that is wacksauce.

Maybe the best post you've ever made, IMO.

Welcome back.

I thought you were out of this thread.

Make up your friggin' mind.

I was being sarcastic.

That is a standard Gutz move that I was lampooning.

I thought people would get it.

Sorry.

Now I'm out of this thread, PM me if you have anything else to say to me.

ROFL! I didn't realize it until now. That is totally Gutz how he does the "I'm quitting this thread" routine.

For the record, I never liked Bird. But he is what he is.

And about his steals, AI does the same thing Rorschach (gambles to get his steals). Does that diminish the player that is AI?


Actually i'd say that Iverson and Bird are pretty comparable all around. Iverson was given so much less though.

Glad you said that.

The problem for AI is the lack of rings. He's one of the best ever, but if he'd won a couple rings then he'd be held in a much higher light I think. Look at Ewing and Barkley. While they aren't in the same league as Bird, they certainly suffered from not ever winning it all.

76ers (minus AI) Vs. Celtics (minus Bird) = A Celtics blowout.

It isn't Iverson's fault the best complimentary player he's ever had to play with was Eric Snow. Really he had worse teams around him then even Ewing or Barkley ever had to deal with, and they use it as an excuse all the time.

It's Iverson's fault that every decent offense player the Sixers have had since he was drafted has been shipped off because the Answer has to dominate the ball every possesion. Guys like Stack and Hughes were shipped off for frontline players because Iverson is a ball hog that can't play with another talented guard/SF. Every play he either shoots it or passes when he has a chance to rack up an assist. Bird put up huge numbers next to two great players. He knew how to share the ball and play within a team concept. Iverson's never learned that. That's why he's never won anything and never will. Ditto with chuckers like Shitbury and Franchise killer (who was only willing to pass to his life partner Cuttino). Bottom line it's harder to put up huge numbers across the board playing next to great players. Iverson (like most players in the NBA today) are more physically gifted than Bird. Shit Iverson could've been a better version of Isiah but instead he's just another overrated chucker.