Whenever I see Delfino and Evans playing out there together, they seem to really struggle. Both are good at playing second fiddle to Rip or Prince, playing the weak side game. That includes grabbing offensive rebounds from the weak side, setting up for the occasional jump shot when the defense leaves and the ball is swung around, and being ready to attack the rim when the defense floats to the other side.

But together, those strengths are minimized. Ball movement isn't as fluent and the defense easily sets up. Neither can take on a strong scoring role. Evans doesn't get his wide open 3 point shots. Delfino doesn't have spacing to drive. They don't really compliment each other’s games at all.

In the second quarter against Cleveland, for example, they saw a lot of time together. Combined, they shot 0-4, 0 points. That's not the production we need from those two positions.

To prove my point, I went to 82games.com's player pair stats. It shows team plus/minus while a certain duo is on the court per 48 minutes. Here are some of the stats of the player combos at the 2/3.

Rip/Prince: +11
Delfino/Rip: +8
Evans/Rip: +3
Delfino/Prince: +10
Evans/Prince: +13
Delfino/Evans: -12

It's pretty unbelievable that a 45-9 team can have a regular rotational duo that's a double digit negative per 48 minutes. I'll give them the fact that both of them play garbage minutes together with the Darko's and the Acker's, so I'll generously round there average up to -10. The Evans/Rip combo is only +3 because there isn't a strong defender out of either of them.

So I think Flip has to stop playing those two at the same time, unless it's a lineup where Delfino is playing point guard, Evans playing the 2 and either Rip or Prince at the 3.

I would like to continue to play both, because I like what both bring. I would advice the substitution pattern to go as follows: (I am also trying to avoid the Rip/Evans combo)

Start, of course, with Rip and Tay
At 2:00 to go in the first quarter, bring Evans in for Rip
At 9:00 to go in the second quarter, bring Delfino and Rip in for both
At 2:00 to go in the second quarter, bring in Tay for Rip
Start 3rd quarter with Rip and Tay
At 4:00 to go in the third quarter, bring Evans in for Rip
At 11:00 to go in the fourth quarter, bring in Rip and Delfino
At 6:00 to go in the fourth quarter, bring Tay in for Delfino

Minute output:

Rip- 36
Tay- 36
Delfino- 14
Evans- 10

Of course, if some guy's hot, he'll get more minutes, and if one guy is really struggling, he'll get cut down, but this should be the basis that we run our rotation on rather than what Flip "feels."

P.S. I laughed out loud when Flip had Ben and Dale in there at the same time at the end of the second quarter.

I am not sure Flip knows how to effectively use both of them.

I wonder how many coaches read 82games' stats, because those are really insightful.

becuause Flip is simply BAD at substitutions/rotations. period. One of his weaknesses. He does every substitution by "instinct", and well his instinct for this particular area are not the sharpest.

I was looking more into the player pair thing at 82games. The highest total pair gross total is Tay and Sheed. They are also the highest pair in the league.

But, the best player pair on the Pistons per 48 minutes is Ben Wallace and Carlos Delfino at +14. That really shocked me that Delfino would be one of the two players in the best player pair.

Combined, they shot 0-4, 0 points. That's not the production we need from those two positions.


Yeah, and they were open shots in transition and through ball movement
Is this all we have left to complain about when a team is 46-9 ?
It was 0-5 btw.

If it's not complaints about how much time the bench gets, it's complaints about what kind of subsitutions are being made.
Bench should be played more, but we don't like player X, or player Z gets too many minutes.
Or tthat the bench needs to play more together but lets micromanage it.

IT'S A MADHOUSE.......MAAAAAAAAAAAAADHOUSE.

IT'S A MADHOUSE.......MAAAAAAAAAAAAADHOUSE.
your point?
http://www.reallivepreacher.com/images/shining.jpg

Yeah, and they were open shots in transition and through ball movement
Is this all we have left to complain about when a team is 46-9 ?
Regardless if you thought they were "good shots" or not, they were 0-5 (thanks for that clarification), and the stats clearly show that the combo of Delfino and Evans does not work.

I don't know much about offensive sets and the X's and O's, which Flip masters at, I would not make a good basketball coach. But I can see the rotations that we run out there. Flip's rotations were suspect in Minnesota, and they are suspect here. I don't know why he would put these two on the court together.

And to your second point, yeah, this is pretty much it besides Sheed's 3-pointers. It's good to be 46-9.

And to your second point, yeah, this is pretty much it besides Sheed's 3-pointers. It's good to be 46-9.

cough*rebounding*cough

and the stats clearly show that the combo of Delfino and Evans does not work.

The stats clearly show the combo did not work vs Cleveland.
The game showed it had little to do with them playing together and alot to do with them not making shots.

It's pretty silly to draw a conclusion like this from such a small sample size, hell it's pretty silly to draw any conclusions from a stat line at all.

The stats clearly show the combo did not work vs Cleveland. The game showed it had little to do with them playing together and alot to do with them not making shots.

It's pretty silly to draw a conclusion like this from such a small sample size, hell it's pretty silly to draw any conclusions from a stat line at all.


To prove my point, I went to 82games.com's player pair stats. It shows team plus/minus while a certain duo is on the court per 48 minutes. Here are some of the stats of the player combos at the 2/3.

Rip/Prince: +11
Delfino/Rip: +8
Evans/Rip: +3
Delfino/Prince: +10
Evans/Prince: +13
Delfino/Evans: -12

Those stats are for the whole year.

So just because something doesn't work right away, means you can't try, right? Those guys won't ever develop chemistry because they suck or something...