Grant Hill

I know you are probably joking, and you probably know this as well, but for the benefit of those that don't, Hill's got another year on his deal left after this season.


News: According to the Orlando Sentinel, the Orlando Magic intend to offer Grant Hill a buyout of his contract which would mean he would be forced to play for another team or retire all together. The Magic owe Hill $16.9 million next season, the last year of his original seven-year, $91 million contract. "I'm not sure Grant would want to be a part of the way this is going to go," a Magic official said. Hill told the Sentinel he is aware of the Magic's thinking, but did not comment further.

You may want a seperate thread for this Glenn.

Hill would be very interested in coming here, however he doesn't fit any of our needs unless Prince becomes our back-up pointguard sorta deal.

You'd think Hill might just to to Miami for the rest of the year, as they have their MLE to spend yet, and then look in the off-season for a new team.

I guess it depends on how much they are offering in the buyout. To make it fair to Hill, it would have to be basically all of the money owed less the full MLE - basically what he could at best hope for next season.

Hill has said in the past that he'd be very interested in playing for Detroit again, and with his wife wanting to be closer to home(she's from Windsor), it could be a possibility I guess.

I'm assuming it would be a full buyout, and I for one would have NO problem letting Hill run the point for us in this offense. He's a precision passer, controls the ball, can put it on the floor, and can hit a jumper. Bring him in for the VM with the understanding he can have the full MLE next year. I think the reception he got on his return really hit home for him. I hate him for lying to Joe, but bygones and shit.

I'd give Hill and Delfino all the backup 1,2,3 minutes. We have 144 minutes there, minus 34 minutes for each starter leaves 42 minutes of backup play. Split that for Hill and Delfino. You will always have 2 of the 4 ball handlers in there at one time anyway (Billups, Tay, Delfino, Hill).

Evans and Hunter could be situation players used in certain matchups where we need their physical play.

I don't suppose that this could have been an unwritten (wink, wink) contingency of the Darko deal, could it?

We agree to the Darko deal, ORL agrees to buy out Hill and has it pre-arranged with Hill that he signs with us?

Joe would be on his way to getting his "God-like" status back if so.

Joe would be on his way to getting his "God-like" status back if so.
Glenn i'm worried that you havent sleep a full night since the deadline. [smilie=anxious.gif]

Another draw for Hill in Detroit would be Arnie Kander, whom Hill tried to hire as his personal S&C trainer when he flew the coop.

Orlando gains nothing by giving him a full buyout though. Unless they want to tank and he isn't up for that sorta deal. I think his full money owing les the MLE is a fair deal for all parties involved. Hill's expiring contract next seaosn would be useless to Orlando because they want the cap space anyways.

When/if it's available, I say get it done. Maybe he signs for a chunk of the mle (because he's already making a ton off the buyout). He wouldn't just be ring riding because he's capable of playing at least 3 more years (that sports hernia shit will clear up).

Imagine the versatility we'd have at pg, sg, and sf:

Billups/vet?/hunter/acker
Rip/Delfino/Hill/billups
Tay/Hill/Delfino/Evans?


We'd have championships raining up in this bitch all day. Unfortunately I bet Billy D has the same "you crossed me and my squad and now you're banned forever" attitude towards Hill and wouldn't want to pony up the cash. Unless joe could make the deal with whatever flexibility we may have after the Darko debacle, which I doubt. But fuck it, come home Grant!

No way in hell Hill would come back to Detroit. He'd probably sign with the Spurs to play with his buddy Duncan.

No way in hell Hill would come back to Detroit. He'd probably sign with the Spurs to play with his buddy Duncan.
Why not? He seems to feel like Detroit owes him a ring for doing the sign and trade that got us Ben Wallace. So he can have his ring and stfu. Then have dallas cut stackhouse so we can sign him and shut them both up.

what a weird twist of fate if that happened.

i can't imagine that happening though. but if it did, that'd be pretty neat seeing Grant in a Pistons uni again. playing for a title here would be spark a HUGE media frenzy. every feel good article would be about Grant's hardships and his eventual return to his home.

Hill and Hunter together again? who woulda thunk?

No way in hell the Magic buy him out in time to make the Piston's playoff roster.

Lets see. They trade for him and ruin their franchise. They pay him 91 million to crush their cap. Then they are going to pay him off early so that the team they got him from can pick him back up and win a championship with him?

Maybe we can get Mike James too.

No way in hell Hill would come back to Detroit. He'd probably sign with the Spurs to play with his buddy Duncan.

Oh yell yeah I'd welcome that. They already have horry, barry, nve, and finley riding the pine. An acquisition of Hill turns them into the San Antonio Lakers/Heat. Get it done popovich, get it done.

I can't think of any reason that Hill would NOT want to come here at this stage in his career. His body can't handle starting for a full season, but give him 20-25 minutes and like dice he'll turn into instant offense but with slashing (does his ankle allow that still?) and a midrange/perimeter shot.

No way in hell the Magic buy him out in time to make the Piston's playoff roster.

Lets see. They trade for him and ruin their franchise. They pay him 91 million to crush their cap. Then they are going to pay him off early so that the team they got him from can pick him back up and win a championship with him?

Maybe we can get Mike James too.

Magic aren't going anywhere, anytime soon. By the time they start sniffing playoff fumes, Hill will be off into the sunset with Tamia. Plus grant has been nothing but a soldier down there struggling with that ankle, maybe they reward his effort with a an opportunity to go where he started. Maybe I'm dreaming? Never know..

It's being said that the Spurs agreed to deal Brent Barry to the Hornets for JR Smith, however the deal was agreed to 5 minutes after the deadline and the league veto'd it.

FWIW, the Orlandoboard isn't even talking about this...

No way in hell the Magic buy him out in time to make the Piston's playoff roster.

Lets see. They trade for him and ruin their franchise. They pay him 91 million to crush their cap. Then they are going to pay him off early so that the team they got him from can pick him back up and win a championship with him?

Maybe we can get Mike James too.

Not unless Joe really talked about that with them in the Darko deal. They wouldn't do it unless it benifits them in some way. What it would do is give them more cap space this offseason. Maybe they think they can improve enough this offseason to make the pick we got from them a bad one. Suppose they sign Harrington and a MLE type big man with Hill's money. They could slide into the end of the playoffs with Nelson back, a lotto pick from this year.

Nelson/Arroyo/Dooling
Reddick/Stevenson/Dooling
Harrington/Turk
Howard/Harrington/Garrity
FA/Darko/Battie

I would love to see this happen. Dont know if it will, but wow if it does.

Bring him in. Grant, Delfino, and McDyess would be a great bench trio.

Joe proably wont even consider it.


Grant almost sabotaged his career!

I would love to see this happen because we'd be bringing him in on a minimum salary. But I worry about his health A LOT. I don't know if he is dependable to be there in the Finals or not. We can sign him, hope he's there, but still have a plan in place if he gets injured.

This time next year, I could see this sorta thing happen, but can you even buy out two year deals?? I'm not sure you can actually(though I don't know why I am thinking this at the moment).

Why don't you go ask your new pal Larry?

There is no restriction on when you can buyout a player based on how many more years his contract lasts.

[edit: I did the leg work, "If the player had more than one season left on his contract, then the buy-out money is distributed among those seasons in proportion to the original salary." http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#60]

You'd think Hill might just to to Miami for the rest of the year, as they have their MLE to spend yet, and then look in the off-season for a new team. Grant fucked Zo's kidney up with that one dunk. I don't think Miami's an option.

You'd think Hill might just to to Miami for the rest of the year, as they have their MLE to spend yet, and then look in the off-season for a new team. Grant fucked Zo's kidney up with that one dunk. I don't think Miami's an option.
Wow, i remember that game. He owned the Heat.

even though he might be my favorite piston of all time, i probably havent seen him play more than 48 minutes total with orlando.

is he even better than delfino or evans at this point? can he D?

even though he might be my favorite piston of all time, i probably havent seen him play more than 48 minutes total with orlando.

is he even better than delfino or evans at this point? can he D?better than evans. if he can play defense better than both.

Hill played in 67 games last year and averaged nearly 35 minutes. He shot better than 50% from the floor last year while averaging 20 points, 5 rebounds and 3 assists.

Pretty good numbers, if you ask me.

Hill played in 67 games last year and averaged nearly 35 minutes. He shot better than 50% from the floor last year while averaging 20 points, 5 rebounds and 3 assists.

Pretty good numbers, if you ask me.

yeah, i was looking at this recent stats and his FG% was what stuck out.

I think there is a stronger than 60% chance Hill gets bought out soon. The magic owe him 28 game checks or about 5.3 million for this year and 16.7 next season and then contract is up. So if they gave him all 5.3 this year and 10 million for next year in the buyout, it works out great for both sides. Hill's salary for next season would be 8 million on the ORL books leaving them about 15 million in cap space and a top 7 pick this offseason. Then in O7 they would have 22 million or more in cap space to surtound Howard with.

If ORl could have moved Hill for an expiring this year they would have, they couldn't or didn't so they are likely going to buy him out. The only alternative is keeping Hill another year or trading him next season for a couple of solid players to a team wanting to make a run at the 07 FA classes.

I would put Hill's chances of coming back to Detroit at zero. Mr. D and Joe likely hold a grudge if he really did backdoor them. Plus Grant was loathed here most of the time, why would he want to come back other than to right a wrong? Most athletes don't like admitting they were wrong. It would be a great story but it in reality is a fairy tale that won't be told.

at the end of the day...i dont want to see that fool celebrating a championship with Joe D


FUCK HIM

I like Grant but honestly JoeD wouldn't pick him up, same as Penny. The guy became fragile when he hit the Florida sun.

60% chance Grant Hill gets bought out this season?? That's really high. I just can't see it. He did have a good game last night, maybe they were doing him a favor and showcasing him.

I thought Houston was the player who screwed Detroit over(and word was we wanted him in the off-season), and that Hill just said he was leaving and there wasn't anything the Pistons could offer him to make him stay. IIRC Hill could have signed with Orlando outright, but sorta forced a S&T. Hill wanted to go somewhere that would help his wife, Tamia, break into the music business, and Hill wasn't a Piston-type player back in the day and felt it.

If he is released, and Detroit flat out doesn't want him, where would he go? Miami? LA Lakers?? Dallas, PHX?? I'd hate for Miami to land Hill and use him as their back-up 2/3 swingman.

60% chance Grant Hill gets bought out this season?? That's really high. I just can't see it. He did have a good game last night, maybe they were doing him a favor and showcasing him.

I thought Houston was the player who screwed Detroit over(and word was we wanted him in the off-season), and that Hill just said he was leaving and there wasn't anything the Pistons could offer him to make him stay. IIRC Hill could have signed with Orlando outright, but sorta forced a S&T. Hill wanted to go somewhere that would help his wife, Tamia, break into the music business, and Hill wasn't a Piston-type player back in the day and felt it.

If he is released, and Detroit flat out doesn't want him, where would he go? Miami? LA Lakers?? Dallas, PHX?? I'd hate for Miami to land Hill and use him as their back-up 2/3 swingman.

Exactly, you don't want Grant to freakishly get healthy all of a sudden for another team when we play them in the playoffs. The guy can still ball. I'd pick him up if I was Dumars.

PG- Billups / Delk /Hunter
SG- Rip / Delfino / Evans
SF- Prince / Hill / Delfino
PF- Sheed / Dice /Max
C- Ben / Dale

That bench would kick ass. And even if he isn't healthy we've still got Delfino and Mo.

I maybe wrong about the buyout this season, but I am now wondering how much of Hill sitting the second half has to do with health and how much does it have to do with him looking down the road.


You figure Pistons general manager Joe Dumars has this one tucked away in his back pocket: Grant Hill's return to where he started, this time as a valuable reserve for a championship team in 2007-08. "I've thought about that," admitted Hill, who expected to be in Chicago, albeit not playing, Tuesday when the Orlando Magic meets the Bulls. "San Antonio, Detroit, Miami maybe," Hill mused in a conversation last week, "teams that realistically have a chance to win it all. Everyone is not that fortunate. Maybe the opportunity will be there in two years, maybe not. But I don't look down the road after all this."

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/cs-0603270195mar27,1,3021678,print.column?coll=cs-columnists

I think he gets bought out after the trade deadline next season. Orlando isn't looking to take on any contract, therefore I don't believe they'll be able to trade him. I could even see a buyout this off-season, depending on which direction Orlando wants to go. Maybe they draft a hotshot small forward and along with keeping Ariza, don't really have any room or minutes for Hill.

It would make sense for both parties as Hill could accept $10M buyout, Orlando saves $5M+ and Hill makes up that money by signing for the MLE somewhere.

I don't think we'll spend the MLE though, so unless he is a post-deadline cut next year, I think he'll end up elsewhere. Besides, I think Dumars wants to see Delfino get more minutes next season(Evans will be dealt to ensure this), and adding Hill would basically punch Delfino's ticket out of town.

I agree that Hill isn't worth the MLE. However looking at next years roster we can easily subtract 3 players if not 4. I can see Grant get taking the BAE or half the MLE and maybe re-signing LH or Delk with the rest. I don't think Grant would be greedy if the chance is there to right a wrong. I think for 1.8 -2.5 million for a year or two Joe would be willing to take the chance. Plus Grant loves Kander.

LH will retire, Delk may leave, Cato is gone, maybe DD or Dice gets moved to make room for Max. Plus as suggested maybe Evans gets moved.

There would be room for Hill and Delfino to both get time, if Mo is gone.

There would be room for Hill and Delfino, to both get time if Mo is gone.


I agree with JS.

i gots no beef with Hill. he helped make Joe's new rings all shiny and puuuurrrttyy. [smilie=angel.gif]

If he wants to roll with us i'm all for it. if not our rivals will take him easy imo. especially the spurs if they decide to part ways with the underacheiving finley.

I think Hill would come here if money was equal, and might even give us a discount sorta deal(Kander, Joe Dumars, Contender, Tamia wants to be close to home-she's from Windsor).

There would be room for both Grant Hill and Carlos Delfino is Evans was dealt AND Tony Delk went elsewhere as well. I think we have a gentlemans agreement to keep Delk past this season though, as he did turn down $2M from LA to sign here. Dumars said he has about $3M to spend - probably the amount Delk would be worth and he is a pretty good back-up for Billups given the offense we run here.

If Delk stays, he gets 2-guard minutes - Flip sees Delfino more as a SF-type it seems, and Hill is a SF. I think Hill would only come here if he could get at least 20 minutes a game, meaning he'd have to back up both Rip and Tay given our rotation(or have Tay slide back to the 2-guard to back up Rip sorta deal). Given that, at this stage I want to see what Delfino could do over bringing back Grant Hill.

IF Grant were to by grace of god stay healthy for a year I would expect him to post 18-6-5, and maybe an all-star spot. Delfino may or may not have a career as a back-up swingman. I'd take one good Hill season here at 2-3 for Fino's entire worth.

IF Grant were to by grace of god stay healthy for a year I would expect him to post 18-6-5, and maybe an all-star spot. Delfino may or may not have a career as a back-up swingman. I'd take one good Hill season here at 2-3 for Fino's entire worth.

I think the best we could expect from Grant would be 11/4/3 for 50-60 games for 2 years. But the most important thing is if he's healthy for the playoffs. If he isn't, he isn't worth a damn thing to us.

Also, I know we all have different expectations for Delfino, but "may or may not have a career as a backup"? Delfino has a better chance at becoming an All-Star than Grant Hill does at staying healthy for an entire year, much less a playoff run.

IF Grant were to by grace of god stay healthy for a year I would expect him to post 18-6-5, and maybe an all-star spot. Delfino may or may not have a career as a back-up swingman. I'd take one good Hill season here at 2-3 for Fino's entire worth.



Also, I know we all have different expectations for Delfino, but "may or may not have a career as a backup"? .

After 1 3/4 years the answer is no.

After 1 3/4 years the answer is no.

Well, you see one thing, I see another. He's still essentially a rookie with the minutes he has played, and anyone with eyes can see that the guy can play. If his minutes didn't fluxuate like all hell, he'd probably as consistant an offensive contributer as he is a defensive contributer.

After 1 3/4 years the answer is no.

Well, you see one thing, I see another. He's still essentially a rookie with the minutes he has played, and anyone with eyes can see that the guy can play. If his minutes didn't fluxuate like all hell, he'd probably as consistant an offensive contributer as he is a defensive contributer.

If his minutes didn't fluxuate he would be playing. What games are you watching where he ISN'T struggling to get minutes? Cause I watch the Pistons, and their coach doesn't seem to like him.

If his minutes didn't fluxuate he would be playing. What games are you watching where he ISN'T struggling to get minutes? Cause I watch the Pistons, and their coach doesn't seem to like him.
Flip does plenty of things that nobody can explain. That is one of them. Even the biggest Delfino hater in the world can see that he is way better than Evans. Yet, untill the last couple games, Mo was consistantly playing over him (and probably will again in the future). You can't judge a player by how many minutes their coach gives them. Ask Jermaine O'neal in Portland. Ask Boris Diaw in Atlanta. Ask Ben Wallace in Washington. Ask Tayshaun Prince under Carlisle.

If his minutes didn't fluxuate he would be playing. What games are you watching where he ISN'T struggling to get minutes? Cause I watch the Pistons, and their coach doesn't seem to like him.
Flip does plenty of things that nobody can explain. That is one of them. Even the biggest Delfino hater in the world can see that he is way better than Evans. Yet, untill the last couple games, Mo was consistantly playing over him (and probably will again in the future). You can't judge a player by how many minutes their coach gives them. Ask Jermaine O'neal in Portland. Ask Boris Diaw in Atlanta. Ask Ben Wallace in Washington. Ask Tayshaun Prince under Carlisle.

I will instead ask 99.9% of NBA bench riders who quickly find themselves without jobs. To think that Fino isn't fighting for his NBA career right now is foolish. The number of minutes they play is EXACTLY the way you judge a players likelyhood to continue to be a player. I don't believe Carlos will be unable to find a job in a couple years, but the sad truth of the NBA is some kid is gonna be drafted this year and next who has a sweet list of talents and wants his spot just as bad. If he's not on the floor, he's not earning his pay, and this league doesn't reward potential for long.

I will instead ask 99.9% of NBA bench riders who quickly find themselves without jobs. To think that Fino isn't fighting for his NBA career right now is foolish. The number of minutes they play is EXACTLY the way you judge a players likelyhood to continue to be a player. I don't believe Carlos will be unable to find a job in a couple years, but the sad truth of the NBA is some kid is gonna be drafted this year and next who has a sweet list of talents and wants his spot just as bad. If he's not on the floor, he's not earning his pay, and this league doesn't reward potential for long.

Again, you and I are obviously on completely different pages here. You make it sound like when he gets an opportunity to play, he sucks. You make it sound like he's all potential, and no substance right now. If that is how you're looking at it, then debating with you is pointless. Sure, there are some aspects to his game that are mostly potential right now, but he already does enough very well to cement a job in this league.

I will instead ask 99.9% of NBA bench riders who quickly find themselves without jobs. To think that Fino isn't fighting for his NBA career right now is foolish. The number of minutes they play is EXACTLY the way you judge a players likelyhood to continue to be a player. I don't believe Carlos will be unable to find a job in a couple years, but the sad truth of the NBA is some kid is gonna be drafted this year and next who has a sweet list of talents and wants his spot just as bad. If he's not on the floor, he's not earning his pay, and this league doesn't reward potential for long.

Again, you and I are obviously on completely different pages here. You make it sound like when he gets an opportunity to play, he sucks. You make it sound like he's all potential, and no substance right now. If that is how you're looking at it, then debating with you is pointless.

Find me ONE word in the paragraph you responded to where I discuss Fino when he is one the floor.

Find me ONE word in the paragraph you responded to where I discuss Fino when he is one the floor.

If you think he plays well when he's on the court, then why would you be arguing this? Everything you have written so far makes it sound like you think he can't play right now...

You:

Delfino may or may not have a career as a back-up swingman
My post:

I know we all have different expectations for Delfino, but "may or may not have a career as a backup"?
Your Response:

After 1 3/4 years the answer is no.
So, based on what you have seen so far, you don't think he'll be a back up. Hmm... Sounds like you think he can't play.

another quote from you that implies that he can't play:

If he's not on the floor, he's not earning his pay, and this league doesn't reward potential for long.
You wouldn't say that if you thought he could play now, because the league DOES reward players that can play now.

If you do think he can play, are you just arguing for the sake of arguing?

Hill hopes to play again without having surgery
Associated Press

CHICAGO -- Orlando Magic forward Grant Hill wants to play again, though not if he would need additional surgery.

Grant Hill
Hill

Hill said Tuesday he hopes rehabilitation will fix his sports hernia injury, and indicated he would consider retiring rather than undergo another procedure.

"I've had enough [surgery]," said Hill, who had hernia surgery Oct. 31. "But I think I can get back, hopefully, without having surgery."

Although a return this season appears unlikely, Hill, 33, would not rule it out.

A seven-time All-Star, Hill has undergone six surgeries -- five on his left ankle -- since being acquired from Detroit in a sign-and-trade in August 2000. He missed the first 19 games this season after the hernia operation and has since been in and out of the lineup all season. He is averaging 15.1 points in 21 appearances.

"I'm getting along OK right now, not playing," Hill said. "I feel the best I've felt this year. But I still feel it in my groin."

Hill told the Orlando Sentinel in a story posted Tuesday on its Web site that he will rest and rehabilitate the injury during the offseason and make a decision about his future in September. His seven-year contract expires after next season.

Find me ONE word in the paragraph you responded to where I discuss Fino when he is one the floor.

If you think he plays well when he's on the court, then why would you be arguing this? Everything you have written so far makes it sound like you think he can't play right now...

You:

Delfino may or may not have a career as a back-up swingman
My post:

I know we all have different expectations for Delfino, but "may or may not have a career as a backup"?
Your Response:

After 1 3/4 years the answer is no.
So, based on what you have seen so far, you don't think he'll be a back up. Hmm... Sounds like you think he can't play.

another quote from you that implies that he can't play:

If he's not on the floor, he's not earning his pay, and this league doesn't reward potential for long.
You wouldn't say that if you thought he could play now, because the league DOES reward players that can play now.

If you do think he can play, are you just arguing for the sake of arguing?

Why does my opion matter on if he has a career? The only thing I think is that his coaches don't trust him, won't play him, and the minutes he's getting right now are his opportunity to continue to stay in this league. Tell me which of these things YOU disagree with because you are arguing with a statement I made.

I am not the one "arguing for the sake of arguing", you are. I made a statement. It is 100% true. YOU argued it saying I said things I never did. The burden of proof lies on you to tell me why you believe that I said something untrue. You are arguing with yourself about the quality of delfinos play as it relates to his future, if you want to argue with me you'd better start talking about his ability to see floortime over someone we ALL agree he's outplayed. You don't get paid in the NBA to be good, you get paid to play good.

i love how on channel 4, bernie smilovitz says that lindsey hunter "hints" at grant hill possibly returning to detroit....but when they played the interview, he was just talking about how ironic it'd be if hill, hunter, and maybe houston finished their careers here. way to be misleading...

Yeah that's BS about quoting Hunter. Even if Hill did want to come back, he would have to accept a backup role to Prince. Now that would be fantastic. In the end, I would love to have Dice, Hill, Delfino, and a resigned Delk as our bench.

Even more than that though, I would love to use our MLE on on Przybilla. He would be a great long term backup and eventual starter. Would also give us a true C and 4 great bigs. We could then freely use our Orlando draft pick on the best player available.

Yeah that's BS about quoting Hunter. Even if Hill did want to come back, he would have to accept a backup role to Prince. Now that would be fantastic. In the end, I would love to have Dice, Hill, Delfino, and a resigned Delk as our bench.

Even more than that though, I would love to use our MLE on on Przybilla. He would be a great long term backup and eventual starter. Would also give us a true C and 4 great bigs. We could then freely use our Orlando draft pick on the best player available.
ok that pryzbilla thing was pretty left field. and no he's not worth it imo. Eventual starter? flat footed big man with no real offense. i thought we just dropped darko. [smilie=arrgh.jpg]

Yeah that was pretty wack. That's what I get for not eating breakfast and posting before lunch.