They gotta rest dude more often.

Ben played 32 minutes, and had an outright ridiculous performance (anyone saying otherwise didn't watch this game). I've watched about 95% of the two past seasons games, and I haven't seen Ben Wallace, or the team in general, lock down on an opponent like they did tonight since 03-04.

I don't even mean numbers wise, I mean just pure intimidation, like consecutive forced turnovers for transition points and shit. I feel the Pistons championship hopes rest in the balance of resting Ben, not Chauncey or Prince. Maybe it's just me, but I can't see why Flip can't distribute minutes like he did tonight, every night. DD has enough juice left to give Ben 6-8 minutes of additional rest, why not do it?

Lately we've been hanging in the balance of winning or losing games depending on Billups to come with a win. Earlier in the season we got by with ridiculous perimeter shooting. Post feburary I'm hoping we go back to SOME of the basics. I still feel like Ben has the most influence over the outcome of the game. I feel like an active, rested ben leads to not only easier victories, but victories that don't feel hollow like alot of our V's @ 43-9.

They gotta rest dude more often.

Ben played 32 minutes, and had an outright ridiculous performance (anyone saying otherwise didn't watch this game). I've watched about 95% of the two past seasons games, and I haven't seen Ben Wallace, or the team in general, lock down on an opponent like they did tonight since 03-04.
I dont know about it being that long. Actually I think its more because we were up for this game and we had better defenders coming off the bench. having perimeter defenders like hunter and delfino coming in gives ben a chance to take more gambles. And we really havent had two perimeter defenders of that level coming in since 03-04. Coupled with dale davis getting into the act defensively. Delfino/Hunter may not be Pit Bulls part two. but they are as close as we are gonna get.Too Bad Maxiell cant be corliss [smilie=artist.gif] ..

But defensively the trade made us better. Offensively who knows what happens off the bench. but the bench wasnt an offensive weapon in the first place, so why not get better defenders in atleast to make offense happen off of defense. :)

Delfino could eventually be one of the best "one on one" perimeter defenders in the eastern conference by next season with artest in Sacramento. Either way I welcome the extra defense at the PG position. I think it'll have a trickle down effect on our whole team's defense.

"...Even so, Saunders said he wants to control Billups' minutes more. Billups, a newly minted All-Star, has played at least 40 minutes in three of his past four games.

Saunders would like each starter to average about 33 minutes the rest of the way, but he admitted it's sometimes hard to stick to that plan.

"Chauncey's a lot like Ben (Wallace)," Saunders said. "People talk a lot about minutes, but sometimes the more minutes Chauncey plays, it's like a quarterback that gets into a great rhythm and gets into a feel. Ben's like that. He gets stronger sometimes late in games.""

See the sig. I'll believe it when I see it.

Well you saw what happened last night. It went from a 20 pt lead to a 5 pts in a matter of minutes. The bench sucks.

Did we lose the game?? Not a big deal then. the guys are only going to improve(Max/Acker) or work off the rust(Hunter/Davis) with playing time.

Well you saw what happened last night. It went from a 20 pt lead to a 5 pts in a matter of minutes. The bench sucks.

That push started happening while some of the starters were in there. The bench doesn't suck, flip just needs to play them more.

Aside from Dyess our bench is one of the worst in the league.

Aside from Dyess our bench is one of the worst in the league.

I disagree. I think we have the most mismanaged bench in the league next to Larry Brown. [smilie=angryfire.g:

Aside from Dyess our bench is one of the worst in the league.

I disagree. I think we have the most mismanaged bench in the league next to Larry Brown. [smilie=angryfire.g:
I think last night we were ,anaged way better and that the bench helped out quite a bit on defense which led to some big baskets in an ugly game.

How can you possibly try and put a positive spin on the bench performance last night with a straight face?



(Dice was rocking, tho)

McDyess is a solid PF back-up, Dale Davis is a solid Ce back-up, Delfino/Evans are good enough 2/3 back-ups in actuality, our only hole is pg right now and maybe a proven commodity SF/SG.

How can you possibly try and put a positive spin on the bench performance last night with a straight face?)
because im not out to get anybody. i'd hate to be the man who crosses you. you'd hound him to the end of eternity.

no spin involved. i said it last night that our bench played very good defense overall. we werent scoring much in the first place, but if they can give us a defensive lift off the bench then im all for it. they by far played better defensively and on the boards than that last game in indy. you cant deny that.

How can you possibly try and put a positive spin on the bench performance last night with a straight face?)
because im not out to get anybody. i'd hate to be the man who crosses you. you'd hound him to the end of eternity.

no spin involved. i said it last night that our bench played very good defense overall. we werent scoring much in the first place, but if they can give us a defensive lift off the bench then im all for it. they by far played better defensively and on the boards than that last game in indy. you cant deny that.

Yeah they did do ok. They just have to keep that intensity when the game is no longer "competitive". The only way they learn to do that is if flip gives them the minutes, but gets vocal about shit like what happened last night. Even he if has to go a little lb on them.

Well you saw what happened last night. It went from a 20 pt lead to a 5 pts in a matter of minutes. The bench sucks.

That push started happening while some of the starters were in there. The bench doesn't suck, flip just needs to play them more.

great point. It was actually the starters being lazy that lead to the comeback.

Well you saw what happened last night. It went from a 20 pt lead to a 5 pts in a matter of minutes. The bench sucks.

That push started happening while some of the starters were in there. The bench doesn't suck, flip just needs to play them more.

great point. It was actually the starters being lazy that lead to the comeback.
true. the bench got emptied at around the 2-1 minute mark, and by then the lead was down to around 10

Here's the play-by-play from the 20 point lead on

6:10
[DET 85-65] R. Wallace Jump Shot: Made (28 PTS)
Assist: Hamilton (5 AST)
Johnson Layup Shot: Missed Block: B. Wallace (5 BLK) 5:56
5:54 B. Wallace Rebound (Off:2 Def:6)
5:49 Billups Jump Shot: Missed
Jackson Rebound (Off:1 Def:4) 5:47
Team Timeout: Regular 5:41
Johnson Substitution replaced by Jasikevicius 5:41
Jackson Substitution replaced by Jones 5:41
Pollard Substitution replaced by Harrison 5:41
Foster Substitution replaced by Granger 5:41
Jasikevicius Running Jump: Made (4 PTS) 5:31
[IND 67-85]
5:11 R. Wallace Jump Shot: Missed
Team Rebound 5:10
Jasikevicius Jump Shot: Made (7 PTS) 4:57
[IND 70-85]
4:41 Billups Layup Shot: Missed
Harrison Rebound (Off: Def:2) 4:40
Jones Layup Shot: Missed Block: R. Wallace (3 BLK) 4:23
4:20 R. Wallace Rebound (Off: Def:9)
4:02 B. Wallace Dunk Shot: Missed
Jones Rebound (Off:1 Def:4) 3:59
Stojakovic Substitution replaced by Gill 3:58
Harrison Turnover: Lost Ball (4 TO) Steal: B. Wallace (4 ST) 3:40
3:22 B. Wallace Turnover: Lost Ball (1 TO) Steal: Gill (1 ST)
Jasikevicius Layup Shot: Made (9 PTS) 3:17
[IND 72-85]
2:55 R. Wallace Jump Shot: Missed
Gill Rebound (Off: Def:1) 2:53
Gill Turnover: Bad Pass (1 TO) Steal: Hamilton (1 ST) 2:40
2:36 Prince Alley Oop Dunk: Missed
2:31 Billups Rebound (Off:2 Def:1)
2:28
[DET 88-72] Billups Jump Shot: Made (14 PTS)
Jones Jump Shot: Made (9 PTS)
Assist: Gill (1 AST) 2:17
[IND 75-88]
2:10 Team Timeout: Regular
2:10 B. Wallace Substitution replaced by Delfino
1:53 Prince Running Hook Shot: Missed
Gill Rebound (Off: Def:2) 1:48
Gill Jump Shot: Missed 1:32
1:30 Delfino Rebound (Off: Def:2)
1:18 Hamilton Jump Shot: Missed
Harrison Rebound (Off: Def:3) 1:16
1:05 Billups Foul: Personal (3 PF)
1:05 Billups Substitution replaced by Acker
1:05 R. Wallace Substitution replaced by Maxiell
Jasikevicius Jump Shot: Missed 1:02
1:02 Team Rebound
1:02 Hamilton Substitution replaced by Evans
0:51 Maxiell Jump Shot: Missed
Jones Rebound (Off:1 Def:5) 0:49
Granger Jump Shot: Made (9 PTS)
Assist: Jones (1 AST) 0:41
[IND 78-88]
0:28 Evans Jump Shot: Missed
Gill Rebound (Off: Def:3) 0:26
Gill Jump Shot: Made (3 PTS) 0:21
[IND 81-88]
Gill Foul: Personal (1 PF) 0:17
0:13 Acker Turnover: Lost Ball (1 TO) Steal: Gill (2 ST)
Jones Jump Shot: Missed 0:06
Harrison Rebound (Off:1 Def:3) 0:04
Harrison Jump Shot: Missed 0:02
Granger Rebound (Off:3 Def:) 0:01
Granger Tip Shot: Made (11 PTS) 0:01
[IND 83-88]
End of 4th Quarter

Dice and Delfino were great last night. Delfino's shot wasn't going, but he did all of the little things to help this team get a win. Like defending, getting deflections, rebounding, and making the right passes.

Has anyone else noticed that those real "Lock down" moments tend to come with Delfino in for Rip? Against NJ Delfino played the entire 3rd quarter where the Pistons held them to 11 points. Against Indy, Delfino was in the game with the starters during that big push in the 4th quarter.

BTW, in the 25 minutes that Lindsey has played this year, the team has been outscored by 20 points. That's not a good sign.

LOL @ People who bitch about the bench.



How can these guys get any sorta rhythm together when they dont play. Are you fucking stupid? The fuck is the matter with you? Do you watch the games? Flip never plays these guys, so how the hell are they supposed to click and fire on all cylinders when they have nothing going for them? Delfino and Dyess have been ballin, and once LH gets his timing down, and throw in some Dale Davis in there. This bench has potential. Its up to our coach to use it.

Dice and Delfino were great last night. Delfino's shot wasn't going, but he did all of the little things to help this team get a win. Like defending, getting deflections, rebounding, and making the right passes.

Has anyone else noticed that those real "Lock down" moments tend to come with Delfino in for Rip? Against NJ Delfino played the entire 3rd quarter where the Pistons held them to 11 points. Against Indy, Delfino was in the game with the starters during that big push in the 4th quarter.

BTW, in the 25 minutes that Lindsey has played this year, the team has been outscored by 20 points. That's not a good sign.

That stat is so bloated its ridiculous. you can't base his projected potential to help this team off 25 minutes over 3 games. Coupled with the fact Lindsey is returning from injury and has to round into shape, and it really doesnt mean anything.

That stat is so bloated its ridiculous. you can't base his projected potential to help this team off 25 minutes over 3 games. Coupled with the fact Lindsey is returning from injury and has to round into shape, and it really doesnt mean anything.

I said it's not a good sign. I didn't say that it was a lock to continue that way, but it's definately not a good sign. I don't think you can argue with that. The team has looked like garbage with him on the floor. They just can't score, and I've seen this episode before. The last 2 years we haven't been able to score with him on the floor. They just rely way to much on getting steals.

I think the bench will be fine, but one thing I don't like is that we don't have a real weapon off the bench. I mean, McDyess is fine, but teams are happy to see him come into the game because he takes one of the Wallaces out. And McDyess is a solid player, but not one that you worry about exploding on you. He has once or twice this year, but that was with no one on the other team that could defend the post.

They call these guys "game-changers." That is one thing I really admire about Dallas, they have a bunch of these guys. When the starters struggle this guys come in and win games for them. On the flip side of that, a lot of those guys are unproven in the playoffs (Harris, Daniels) and some proven playoff chokes (Van Horn, Stackhouse).

I got a little off-topic there, but you do want a couple guys that can drop 15 on any given night. McDyess will hit that mark from time to time, but nobody else on this team has done that except for Evans against Charlotte (does that game count?)

Again, I think our bench will be fine because our starters do lift them. But at the beginning of the year people were saying our bench was "great." They are OK, but I wouldn't put them at any more than that.