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Raptors should court Embry
Interim GM brings respect, stability

Feb. 20, 2006. 06:13 AM
DOUG SMITH
SPORTS REPORTER

HOUSTON—Successful NBA franchises are ones with stability, in the front office and on the court, and the Raptors can take a key step in that direction by doing what many contend is the most logical thing in their search for Rob Babcock's replacement.

Nothing.

Executives, coaches, players, broadcasters — just about anyone connected with the league who is floating around the all-star weekend festivities here — are shocked the Raptors haven't done all they can to convince interim general manager Wayne Embry to remain in that capacity, alter his title if necessary, and let him hire someone who he can bring along to have the front-office consistency the team so desperately needs.

And one name has emerged in the hunt for someone for Embry to groom, someone with close ties to the NBA and to the team.

Michael Curry, a former player, union executive and now the president of the D-League, would be a logical addition to the front-office staff, several NBA sources told the Star, given his admiration for Embry, close ties with two key members of the team and varied experience.

And Curry would be interested in working with Embry in some capacity with the Raptors.

"Someone that has that much experience, who is that well respected, it would be an honour to be able to learn from someone like that," Curry said. "There's a lot of situations you deal with but there's nothing to replace actually doing it. He has."

If the Raptors do go ahead with their plans to replace Embry, it would give the team its third GM in less than two seasons. And if the new GM wants to replace Sam Mitchell, it would mean their third coaching change in four years.

That's hardly the kind of consistency and stability needed to allow a franchise to grow.

"Stability at the top, you've got to have that all the time," former all-star and broadcaster Bill Walton said. "All the great franchises, all the great teams have that. They've had the right guy who can inspire, who can lead."

Embry's reputation around the league is untarnished. Several executives, coaches and players have expressed astonishment that the Raptors haven't done all they can to convince Embry to remain in his job.

With this year and next left on his contract, and the proven ability to build teams and cachet around the NBA no Raptors official has had in years, they shake their head when it's suggested the club is looking elsewhere.

And even current players, having seen Babcock operate and now watching Embry, notice a difference in the level of respect.

"Rob's a real good guy, he was always around, he was always talking the players; Wayne does the same thing but he's a hall of famer," said Chris Bosh. "They're both good people but Wayne knows what players are going through before it even happens. He's been there, done that."

Embry has publicly resisted all calls that he remain in his position with Toronto but those close to him think he could easily be convinced to stay, if the Raptors make the overtures seriously. Richard Peddie of Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment told the Star a week ago that he was continuing his search and that Embry was fine in his interim role.

But the relationship between Embry and Mitchell, and perhaps even Embry, Curry and Mitchell, would represent the first time in years that the front office has clearly been on the same page as the coaching staff.

There were serious differences of opinion between Babcock and Mitchell, the relationship between Glen Grunwald and Kevin O'Neill was toxic, Grunwald grew so dissatisfied with Lenny Wilkens that he wanted to fire him long before Wilkens left and Butch Carter quickly grew out of favour with his superiors.

A chance to have a coach, GM and president who respect each other and can work together seamlessly is a goal the Raptors have never really achieved.

"When you have that stability, you start to think alike, you know what type of players everybody likes and you form a system that you can build on," said Curry. "Nothing happens quickly in this league; if something happens quick, it won't sustain. It's about building a team the right way."

Curry's ties with Toronto go far beyond the 70 games he played in 2003-04. Bosh told reporters Friday that Curry was his mentor when Bosh was a rookie, showing him how to be a professional, and Curry has known Mitchell for years and has followed the Raptors' follies this season.

"What I think has happened in Toronto is Sam has been given a chance to hold stern and show that they're going to play a certain style of basketball, where there is going to be respect given both ways," he said. "Because of that, when they went through those turbulent times starting the season off, they responded. Teams that go 1-15 at the start of the season don't usually end up going through a 40-game stretch where they're .500."

And Curry would welcome the chance to keep that growth continuing.

"I've always said that my ultimate goal in the realm of basketball is to be in management and at the end of the day be an owner and none of that has changed," he said.

With a high Lotto pick and almost $20,000,000 in cap space Toronto should not be looking at Mike Curry for anything.

Offer Hammond 100% power over the basketball operations and watch that team imrpove quickly.

Otherwise let Embry take the job for 2 years and then come back to Hammond.

IMO Curry is not cut out to be a GM.

I doubt the modern player respects him for his playing career.

I doubt the modern player respects him for his playing career.


That doesn't mean anything. When you look at guys like McHale and Ainge stinking up the office you gotta see that. A guy playing the game is doing it because he's physically gifted and talented usually. Being a GM is more about intelligence and charisma, not jumping high and running fast. After all, Jordan sucked ass as a GM and R.C. Buford does a damn good job.

McHale turned a shitty Minny team into a very good team. Granted he couldn't get them over the hump but don't act like he didn't make them better.

Ainge? He's doing a lot better than you think, especially with a truckload of young talent at every position. But the media bashes him so your blind ass can't see that.

Jordan was a shitty GM? Who signed Larry Hughes? Who traded those shitty contracts so that the Wizards would have the cap room needed to chase Arenas? Yeah, you fucked up again.

But to clarify:

I meant that young players today probably don't give a fuck about Mike Curry. He's just some shitty fucking player that ended up in the front office.

Having him associated with the Toronto front office does NOTHING for free agents so why fucking bother?

They don't need to groom someone to take over from Embry in 2 years - they need to hire Hammond this off-season and give him 100% control over the basketball side of things.

McHale turned a shitty Minny team into a very good team. Granted he couldn't get them over the hump but don't act like he didn't make them better.

Ainge? He's doing a lot better than you think, especially with a truckload of young talent at every position. But the media bashes him so your blind ass can't see that.

Jordan was a shitty GM? Who signed Larry Hughes? Who traded those shitty contracts so that the Wizards would have the cap room needed to chase Arenas? Yeah, you fucked up again.




yeah ok, this is you're worst post ever. Mchale, Ainge and Jordan are three of the worse GM's in modern history regardless of how you try to spin it.

If i was gonna ride the media's dick I would've mentioned Zeke because he gets crucified by them everytime.

zeke's the best GM in the league cuz he got Starbury to come home.

McHale turned a shitty Minny team into a very good team. Granted he couldn't get them over the hump but don't act like he didn't make them better.

Ainge? He's doing a lot better than you think, especially with a truckload of young talent at every position. But the media bashes him so your blind ass can't see that.

Jordan was a shitty GM? Who signed Larry Hughes? Who traded those shitty contracts so that the Wizards would have the cap room needed to chase Arenas? Yeah, you fucked up again.




yeah ok, this is you're worst post ever. Mchale, Ainge and Jordan are three of the worse GM's in modern history regardless of how you try to spin it.

If i was gonna ride the media's dick I would've mentioned Zeke because he gets crucified by them everytime.

Explain to me how McHale, Ainge and Jordan are 3 of the "worse" GM's in modern history.

You're sucking the media's dick, not riding it if you can't see the truth.

I don't spin shit - I drop knowledge and you'd be smart to pay attention.

Who fucking signed Larry Hughes?
Who got Washington the cap space needed for Arenas?

Michael fucking Jordan.

Who drafted Al Jefferson, Delonte West, Kendrick Perkins, Gerald Green and Tony Allen? Ainge.

McHale got a "never been to the playoffs in forever" team. How many trips to the post-season does Minny have now?

None of those guys are great GM's but calling them 3 of the "worse" is fucking stupid.

Do some research. Prove to my dumb ass that you're opinion is based on something other than talking heads, perception and media bullshit.

But Michael Jordan never won SHIT as the GM for the Wiz. He was a disgrace.

McHale also has this on his record:

http://thedraftreview.com/history/notes/Minnesota01.htm

How much better off would the Wolves be if they had any of the draft picks they had to forfeit, whether they actually used them to pick or as chips for trade?

If you're going to give him credit for making them a playoff team, you have to discredit him for ruining their window, too. Look at them now...they won 58 games less than two years ago, and were arguably a healthy Sam Cassell away from making it to the Finals that year.

Now they're 23-29 and on the verge of squandering Garnett's best years. He doesn't even look close to being the same player.

Mchale is OK, but 90% is KG.

Ainge sucked a few years ago, but seems to be getting better, still has some problems(Scalibrine, Dickau).

Jordan just blew. Yeah he got Hughes, for what 3 years, he took an average team, and made them average, dispite overperformance by some of their players. The guy since Jordan is much better.

Bird is pretty decent, though a bit of a bitch(Isiah/O'Neal situation).

Thomas is a good drafter, but blows at everything else.

The Timberwolves only came into existence in 1990. They hadn't been to the playoffs in the 5 years before they named McHale GM so I supposed its technically true that he got a "never been to the playoffs in forever team" to the playoffs, but forever was exactly 5 years at the time.

McHale's whole existence as a GM is Garnett (pick in 95). Sure he deserves credit for that pick and the one year wonder free agent moves of Cassell and Sprewell but that's been quickly drowned in his complete lack of ability at handling the resulting situation.

Cassell and a 1st for Jaric? Nice.

John Hammond wouldn't attract free agents either. But Pharaoh is right regarding MJ, Mchale and Ainge -- they weren't perfect, but they weren't bad either.

No one is really attacking Ainge so let's talk about the other 3 "worse" GM's in modern history.

Michael Jordan:

DSC claims that Jordan blew but the guy since then has been much better.

It must have been easy for Ernie to sign Gilbert Arenas, considering all the cap space MJ gave him.

And who did Ernie trade to get Jamison, the other member of the big 3?

Stackhouse and the #5 pick. MJ acquired Stackhouse, right?

I tried to hunt down an "all-time" transaction list but couldn't but you can be sure that the Washington team that made the playoffs last season was mostly put together by MJ.

Ernie just added the last few pieces and away they went. (New coach helped too)

McHale? 5 years and no playoffs. He picks KG and now you all say "Well, it was obvious"

No it fucking wasn't. Back then it was a very risky pick, taking some dude straight out of HS. KG was the first guy to do it in a long time.

It's not like he was Lebron and McHale could point to 5 All-Stars that came straight out of HS.

You guys act like it was a no-brainer.

Sure McHale screwed up the Joe Smith thing but I'm not saying he's perfect. He's fucked up a few other things too.

I'm just saying he's not one of the 3 "worse" GM's in modern history.

No one is really attacking Ainge so let's talk about the other 3 "worse" GM's in modern history.

Michael Jordan:

DSC claims that Jordan blew but the guy since then has been much better.

It must have been easy for Ernie to sign Gilbert Arenas, considering all the cap space MJ gave him.

And who did Ernie trade to get Jamison, the other member of the big 3?

Stackhouse and the #5 pick. MJ acquired Stackhouse, right?

I tried to hunt down an "all-time" transaction list but couldn't but you can be sure that the Washington team that made the playoffs last season was mostly put together by MJ.

Ernie just added the last few pieces and away they went. (New coach helped too)

McHale? 5 years and no playoffs. He picks KG and now you all say "Well, it was obvious"

No it fucking wasn't. Back then it was a very risky pick, taking some dude straight out of HS. KG was the first guy to do it in a long time.

It's not like he was Lebron and McHale could point to 5 All-Stars that came straight out of HS.

You guys act like it was a no-brainer.

Sure McHale screwed up the Joe Smith thing but I'm not saying he's perfect. He's fucked up a few other things too.

I'm just saying he's not one of the 3 "worse" GM's in modern history.

So we're going to give Michael Jordan credit for getting Stackhouse even though he gave up Rip Hamilton to do so?

Zeke is easily the worst ever. Whatever he lays his hands on turns to scandal and junk. He screwed the Knicks up for another 5 years.

Looking at Isiah Thomas, Michael Jordan, and Dominique Wilkins, 3 amazing players, 3 horrible GMs.

Fuck this shit.

IF anyone wants to think that those 3 guys are the worst GM's in modern basketball please do so.

I'm not wasting time on defending them anymore.

I can name 2 guys off the top of my head worse that those 3 but if you guys can't then that's your problem.

Fuck this shit.

IF anyone wants to think that those 3 guys are the worst GM's in modern basketball please do so.

I'm not wasting time on defending them anymore.

I can name 2 guys off the top of my head worse that those 3 but if you guys can't then that's your problem.
Did I say those were the 3 worst GMs in modern basketball? Didn't think so. I stated that Zeke is the worst, which I truly believe. Then I created a category for super players of that era that didn't turn out to be super GMs.

Pharoah's god [smilie=applause.gi:

Everyone here got fucking owned!

Dominique Wilkins?!?!?!

He's not even running the Hawks! Billy Knight is!

We can't even DEFINE general manager here, can we?

LOL@Skelly

Fuck this shit.

IF anyone wants to think that those 3 guys are the worst GM's in modern basketball please do so.

I'm not wasting time on defending them anymore.

I can name 2 guys off the top of my head worse that those 3 but if you guys can't then that's your problem.
Did I say those were the 3 worst GMs in modern basketball? Didn't think so. I stated that Zeke is the worst, which I truly believe. Then I created a category for super players of that era that didn't turn out to be super GMs.

Skelly: Did I call you out?

I originally responded to Koolaid's moronic idea that Jordan, McHale and Ainge are the 3 "worse" GM's of modern basketball.

Then other fuckers wanna make a case against McHale and Jordan, even though Koolaid didn't respond.

That's why I gave up. I didn't even mention you, Stu.

And I'll leave this alone, now that you mentioned Nique as a GM.

Sorry, but he's not the GM. You can ask Grizz about that. I'm out of here.

I originally responded to Koolaid's moronic idea that Jordan, McHale and Ainge are the 3 "worse" GM's of modern basketball.

Then other fuckers wanna make a case against McHale and Jordan, even though Koolaid didn't respond.

That's why I gave up.



That's why i didn't respond. I don't have to if everyone else is going to let you know.

I'll do something absurd for this post though, some research. (Since Pharaoh stole my style of being vulgar and coming with aggression, i'll play his usual role of sophisticated and intelligent).


Jordan declared himself a player, that was his solution to the roster problems. He also signed a bunch of other players who never really did anything (Larry Hughes didn't even accomplish anything until one season ago). His draft record is Kwame Brown at No.1 and Juan Dixon at No.17. The biggest trade he made was Rip for Stack. He's said to have threatened his teammates that he would trade them if they didn't pass him the ball enough.

When you look at his record you don't look for mistakes, they are everywhere. Looking at Jordan as a GM you have to try to find something he did right. You mentioned the cap space, but that's nothing. A Gm can sit on his ass and do nothing, eventually he will be left with cap space. Getting cap space is nothing if you don't know what to do with it. Acquiring cap space is pretty much unavoidable. especially when you spend a chunk of the salary on yourself as a player only to retire when they fire you as the GM.



Now on to McHale. Obviously the Joe Smith scandal is going to set him back. The biggest set back is that his players are always unhappy though. He had what many considered the future of the NBA when he had Marbury and KG together, however he traded away Marbury for pretty much nothing and left KG with a young and inexperienced team that had no chemistry. Signed Chauncey Billups as a free agent and he showed tremendous upside and talent, but he never resigned him. Instead he let Dumars sign him and tried to ride out Terrell Brandon. HE signed Cassell and Spreewell so for the first time he put KG around veteran players with skill and they made a playoff run. However the team was incredibly unhappy which led Spreewell into nothingness, and Mchale traded away Cassell for Jaric. The other player that was considered a vital part of the Wolves that made the playoff run was Wally, who he traded for Ricky Davis in what I consider to be the best move he made outside of drafting Garnett. Which leads me to the last guy...



Ainge hasn't done anything at all but take steps backwards. He inherited a playoff team that had a core of Walker and Pierce. He traded walker for Lafrentz and Welsch. Signed Ricky Davis, and he played very well for him so he traded him away for Wally Szczerbiak's bloated contract and Kandi's potential cap space. His current roster looks like an NBDL team with Paul Pierce on it. Delonte West is a young player with potential but he's not starter material, Wally isn't anything that special, and the rest of the team is absolutely nothing. This dude will trade away anything for draft picks.




None of these guys ever really had a "team". They had good pieces but never built anything around them. instead they left players unhappy, bitter, and never put them into positions to utilize their talent. No matter how you look at it that's being a bad GM.

Pharoah: Sorry, I thought you were talking to me since I mentioned 3 guys and you were the post right after me.



And to everybody else: Wilkins HAS HAD A DECISION MAKING ROLE WITH THE HAWKS. I don't know if it was titled "GM," but he was in that role. You are right, Billy Knight is in charge NOW, but I was not talking about now. And, when Wilkins did have that decision making role, he sucked at it, and he doesn't have that any more.

I'm saying that 3 great players have had their chance of running teams in Jordan, Thomas, and Wilkins, and they all have sucked at it. Nothing extreme of radical in what I'm saying here.

Thats impossible. Knight was hired before Wilkins was hired.

FUCK! Was I misled?

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=464191

Jordan declared himself a player, that was his solution to the roster problems. He also signed a bunch of other players who never really did anything (Larry Hughes didn't even accomplish anything until one season ago). His draft record is Kwame Brown at No.1 and Juan Dixon at No.17. The biggest trade he made was Rip for Stack. He's said to have threatened his teammates that he would trade them if they didn't pass him the ball enough.

When you look at his record you don't look for mistakes, they are everywhere. Looking at Jordan as a GM you have to try to find something he did right. You mentioned the cap space, but that's nothing. A Gm can sit on his ass and do nothing, eventually he will be left with cap space. Getting cap space is nothing if you don't know what to do with it. Acquiring cap space is pretty much unavoidable. especially when you spend a chunk of the salary on yourself as a player only to retire when they fire you as the GM.

All I fucking need is a yes or no answer, not some long fucking theory where you claim "it's said such and such happened"

Yes or No: Is Jordan one of the 3 "worse" GM's in modern basketball?



Now on to McHale. Obviously the Joe Smith scandal is going to set him back. The biggest set back is that his players are always unhappy though. He had what many considered the future of the NBA when he had Marbury and KG together, however he traded away (Marbury demanded a trade Marbury)for pretty much nothing and left KG with a young and inexperienced team that had no chemistry. Signed Chauncey Billups as a free agent and he showed tremendous upside and talent, but he never resigned him. 9Billups signed here because Joe had faith in him as a starter. Minny only gave Billups the starting job because Brandon was injured)

Instead he let Dumars sign him and tried to ride out Terrell Brandon. HE signed Cassell and Spreewell so for the first time he put KG around veteran players with skill and they made a playoff run. However the team was incredibly unhappy (money hungry bitches) which led Spreewell into nothingness, and Mchale traded away Cassell for Jaric. The other player that was considered a vital part of the Wolves that made the playoff run was Wally, who he traded for Ricky Davis in what I consider to be the best move he made outside of drafting Garnett. Which leads me to the last guy...



Once again:

Yes or no: Is McHale one of the 3 "worse" GM's in modern basketball.

I know the history. I'm usually the guy that is "sophisticated and intelligent" remember?



Ainge hasn't done anything at all but take steps backwards. (You're crazy)

He inherited a playoff team that had a core of Walker and Pierce. He traded walker for Lafrentz and Welsch. Signed Ricky Davis, and he played very well for him so he traded him away for Wally Szczerbiak's bloated contract and Kandi's potential cap space. His current roster looks like an NBDL team with Paul Pierce on it. Delonte West is a young player with potential but he's not starter material, Wally isn't anything that special, and the rest of the team is absolutely nothing. This dude will trade away anything for draft picks.


For the final time:

Is Ainge one of the 3 "worse" GM's in modern basketball?



None of these guys ever really had a "team". They had good pieces but never built anything around them. instead they left players unhappy, bitter, and never put them into positions to utilize their talent. No matter how you look at it that's being a bad GM.

You state here that all 3 are bad GM's.

In your mind does Bad = one of the 3 "worse" GM's in modern basketball?

You made a stupid statement and I called you on it.

That statement?

(paraphrasing) "Ainge, McHale and Jordan are 3 of the "worse" GM's in modern basketball"

No there not - they are either medicore or bad, but not the 3 worst.

Scott Layden?
That dude in Cleveland that traded first round picks so often the league invented a rule to prevent it?
Zeke?

The dude in Cleveland is over 20 years ago, so maybe that's not modern enough for you.

None of those 3 are the worst GM's in the NBA. I think MJ sucked as a GM, but he wasn't in the bottom 5 still. McHale is ok. Ainge had a bad start, but is doing pretty well now.

MJ would have been decent if he didn't do the RIP for Stack trade in my book. At the time it wasn't a bad deal, but it sure turned into one. Luckily for him, he got rid of that problem. Another knock on MJ was the Brown pick, and that he was so high on White too. But he did make a couple nice moves.

At any rate, none of those GM's are in the worst 3.

Now that that discussion is over, can we get back to talking about how much we hate Michael Curry?

Maybe they want someone who is bi-lingual. Do a lot of people speak in binary code up in Toronto?

I think Curry would make a great scalper.

Can you imagine he was was holding tickets in his hands whilst waving them?

Thanks for that Chris.

Another little note on MJ as GM before I leave this alone:

MJ traded Rip for Stack.

His replacement (who apparently is doing much better) then traded Stackhouse and the #5 pick for Jamison.

The #5 pick? Devin Harris!

I don't know which deal is worse for Washington.

That Kwame draft pick sucked though - did anyone hear that Krause wouldn't give him Brand (from what I remember MJ wanted to trade the pick for Elton) or is that just more draft day bullshit?