The following rumor is According to http://www.khey1380.com/ , no web link from this source I am just telling anyone who cares the station I heard this on.


The Pistons are one of five teams who are actively in talks with Atlanta about acquiring Al Harrington. The other 4 teams are belived to be Miami, Dallas, SA and Indy.

According to the station Atlanta is looking to maintain cap flexibility, so they are not looking to add a huge deal for Harrington, but they do want a draft pick or a young player.

Apparently SA, Indy and Miami are reluctant to offer up any picks for a player who could be a rental.

The SA beat writer they had on talking about a possible trade said he has heard Detroit is offering Cato, a first ( which is kind of conditional, Atl would get first regardless but it could be the ORL pick if AL re-signs) for Harrington and Lue. He felt Detroit was the front runner because Knight and Dumars are close, and Detroit is high on Harrington and have been so a while now.

I started a new thread but if somebody wants to merge the Lue stuff with this thread that is fine.

It's weird here in EL Paso because the fans are divided because no team is really close Dallas is 9 hrs away, SA 8 hours, Houston 11 hours and Phx 7-8 hours. However all the fans were not happy that Detroit is involved and there team is being passive.

Additionally I found this FWIW


Al Harrington is looking to escape Atlanta before the trading deadline for a shot with a playoff contender. Like Walker, who went to Boston at last season's deadline, Harrington is in the final year of his contract with little desire to return to the Hawks in the offseason.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/basketball

I'd hit it.

This would be a great deal to help us in the playoffs. Harrington and Dice would be nasty down low.

Like I mentioned in the other thread, would Atlanta value the Orlando pick more than Milicic?? They must really want the cap space for some reaosn or another.

I like the idea of protecting our pick should Harrington not resign. It's ORlando if he resigns and ours if he doesn't.

Would we even try to resign him? I think Dallas and SA would both be happy to stay out of it if the other didn't get him. Indiana has to decide what they want to do - rebuild or go for it with what they have now.

I'd hate to see Miami get Harrington though - that would be dangerous. What expiring contracts does Miami have though??? Posey is closest and he has another year yet. Maybe something like Posey, Wright and a draft pick sorta deal...

My guess would be like you said Kilo, Atlanta is willing to deal him get a pick rather than losing him for nothing. Best case Atl gets a pick maintains flexibility and makes a run in the offseason at Al. Worst case they traded away a player for a pick, which they can use to appease pHx if need be.

I think SA has the most to gain from the trade as Harrington could back up Duncan at the four, Bowen at the three and could play some 2-guard as well.

They could deal Mohammad, Marks and a pick for Harrington - however they'd really be huritng their center depth as Nazr plays pretty well against us, however Nesterovic gets abused.

Ideally they'd move Duncan to center, Harring to the pf spot and Bowen at small forward against us. Harrington could guard Ben and Duncan on Sheed. Heck put Gino on Ben, Harrington on Tay, Bowen on Rip and dare Ben to take all the shots...

Maybe Woodson talked to some sources in the Palace and Atlanta realized that such a pick would be better than Milicic or maybe Joe wouldn't deal Milicic for a potential rent-a-player - at least here we'd have protection should Harrington leave.

I wouldn't try to re-sign Harrington in the off-season and if anybody wanted to sign and trade for him, they'd have to be able to offer better than the Orlando pick to even make it worth our while.

Indiana could offer Pollard and a better pick that would be for this years draft. But Harrington has a good shot at re-signing with Indiana and Atlanta might want more in such a scenario, especially if they still plan to make a run at him in the off-season. They'd basically be kissing Harington away if they sent him and his bird rights to Indiana.

What would our cap situation be with Harrington and Lue ?

Is there any chance that we could resign him during the offseason ?

If we landed Harrington than Dumars imho would of recovered from the Darko fiasco even if he isn't able to land Lue or another backup PG. I say this assuming that Al Harrington most likely wouldn't resign here. Whatever puts in the best position to win this year is all I care about and harrington more than helps us in that regard, even if he is a renta player.

I also doubt the Pistons would want to resign him anyways.

Wasn't Altanla interested in Milicic and wanted to swap Harrington for him? If so we could have swung a deal with Milicic and Arroyo for Harrington and Lue, and maybe we could also get a pick out of this. Why the heck taking this detour?

Just bothers me if we are indeed pursuing Harrington. Jumars actually went on record saying the Hawks GM asked him to call in case he wanted to move Darko. Either they had a change of heart on his potential, or cap space suddenly becomes a huge factor for them, which is unlikely considering they are the franchise that threw a max deal at Joe freaking Johnson and lost 2 picks and Diaw along with it.

I think if Detroit was ab;e to pull off the deal, Joe would behappy with renting AL and Lue. However if Al ended up being gold I could see Joe sending Dice off into the sunset to play elsewhere. I mean if Dice gets his ring mission accomplished time to get younger at the PF spot.

What would our cap situation be with Harrington and Lue ?

Is there any chance that we could resign him during the offseason ?

Lue would be ours for two more season, but at $3.5M and tere would be zero chance we could keep Harrington if Dumars made the cost cutting Milicic trade to avoid luxury tax issues. I think the fact that we wouldn't be any threat to re-sign Harrington would be a plus in Atlanta's favor.

I think we'd want Delk over Lue though as Delk is expiring as well. We'd essentially be swapping our first rounder in 2007 for a better chance at winning it this year. Atlanta could forcefeed Marvin Williams minutes the rest of the season to see what they have with him and could still go after Harrington in the off-season with all of their cap space. And basically gained a first round pick for 30 games without him while improving their pick this year AND playing Marvin some big minutes.

Wasn't Altanla interested in Milicic and wanted to swap Harrington for him? If so we could have swung a deal with Milicic and Arroyo for Harrington and Lue, and maybe we could also get a pick out of this. Why the heck taking this detour?

Just bothers me if we are indeed pursuing Harrington. Jumars actually went on record saying the Hawks GM asked him to call in case he wanted to move Darko. Either they had a change of heart on his potential, or cap space suddenly becomes a huge factor for them, which is unlikely considering they are the franchise that threw a max deal at Joe freaking Johnson and lost 2 picks and Diaw along with it.

I think the detour has to do with like Kilo said getting more than an expiring deal for Darko. Sure Harrington would be more of a contibutor than Cato but once the season is over so could be any chance of redemption for the #2 blunder. At least with ORL pick yo can swing that into something cheaply. With Harrington it re-sign him or lose him, a S&T unless we got TE and a pick would not help the luxary tax issue we may face. I think Joe would have taken Harrington and Lue with a pick 21-30 for Darko and Arroyo, but Atlanta could give up any kind of pick.

OK, here's how I look at it:
If we do the proposed trade with Atlanta, we get for Darko & Arroyo:
AH and Lue for this season, and AH after the season if he re-signs,
AH and Lue for this season, an Orlando pick while losing one of ours if he doesn't resign.

We could have easily accomplished all that by trading Darko and Aroyyo for AH and Lue, while swapping our first round pick with theirs (I believe you can specify that in a trade -- Hawks' own pick). This way, no matter Harrington resigns or not, we get the Hawks' pick for ours.

Yeah but it seems like Atlanta and Woodson didn't want Darko anymore.

Maybe Atlanta doesn't want any part of Arroyo's and Milicic's contracts. I have a feeling that they want more of "now" help with their capspace, especially considering the pick they owe to PHX next season HAS to be their own and is only top three protected. They cannot wait on Milicic developing - they need to improve now and the better way to do that would be to use cap space on "now" talent. If they've written off Harrington, they could wait and try to sign and trade him, but that would interfere with their attempts to go after other teams free-agents because they'd have to renounce Harrington before they could make any splashes(and thus get nothing for him). This way they'd get a future first rounder and be able to jump right into the free agent market. If they still plan to target Harrington they could still do so, however Marvin Williams and Harrington are basically the same player and you don't need both of them. Atlanta can see what they got with Williams the rest of the season and then make a decision.

I don't believe the FA class is all that good this season though. Mayeb they want maximum cap space for 2007 when Arroyo would still be o the books for one more year and Milicic wold be restricted. If this is the case, then they could take on contracts with one more year on them(James Posey from Miami for one).

This could be a completely baseless rumor our of El Paso, I guess we wont have to wait too long as the trade deadline is Thurdsay.

We get to rent Harrington at the cotst of our first round draft pick in 2007 and taking on Lue's remaining two years. Atlanta gets Lue off their books and gets a first round draftpick in 2007 and still is basically in the same boat in regards to signing Harrington in the off-season.

Dumars wouldn't trade Milicic for a Harrington rent-a-player, and Atlanta cannot swap picks because they already owe a future first rounder to PHX. The pick HAS to be Atlanta's, is lottery protected this season, only Top 3 protected in 2007 and unprotected in 2008. Basically We'd have to be acquiring a 2008 pick with the chance it would even be in 2009 should Atlanta suck again next season(and there is a good chance of that).

Acording to atlantaboard, Woodson killed any possible interest in Milicic. I wonder if he has moles within the organization...

OK, here's how I look at it:
If we do the proposed trade with Atlanta, we get for Darko & Arroyo:
AH and Lue for this season, and AH after the season if he re-signs,
AH and Lue for this season, an Orlando pick while losing one of ours if he doesn't resign.

We could have easily accomplished all that by trading Darko and Aroyyo for AH and Lue, while swapping our first round pick with theirs (I believe you can specify that in a trade -- Hawks' own pick). This way, no matter Harrington resigns or not, we get the Hawks' pick for ours.

My guess is that Atlanta wanted no part of Arroyo's contract. I would also guess that if we trade for Harrington, we give up the Orlando pick.

i wouldnt mind this at all.

Makes sense for the Hawks in a way. If they woulda done straight up darko for harrington then they woulda lost harrington now and had darko to sign in a year anyhow. This way they get a pick (if orl) in a year ...and they can sign darko when hes a FA if hes doing well.
Atl knows they suck and that they arent going to turn it around for a few years. If they did this then they would have all the youth they have now continuing to mature plus a high upcoming draft pick plus darko if they want.

I don't believe Dumars would give up the 2007 Orlando pick for a three month rental of Harrington, though if we could guarentee a title win with him, I'd be all for it.

I'd give up our 2007 first rounder for the Harrington rent-a-player though.

Where would Harrington fit in on our team?? That's where I don't see a fit. McDyess gets all of Rhaseed's back-up minutes, and we like Delfino here getting all of Hamilton's back-up minutes. Harrington is not going to want to come and play 12-16 minutes a night backing up Tayshaun Prince.

Now if we were not getting a pointguard in the trade, we could use Tay and Delfino at the point for five-ten minutes or so a game and then bump Harrington's minutes up to near 20-25 minutes a game.

Basically we'd have an eight man rotation with the starting five, McDyess, Harrington and Delfino. Davis and Hunter would be #9 and #10. Maxiell and Evans would be on the end of our bench and Acker and Johnson would be inactive.

I think this trade is a real longshot. However we have the horses to make it happen. I think New Jersey would be a great fit for Harrington and they have a couple of first rounders to offer. Imagine a starting five of Kidd, Carter, Jefferson, Harrington and Krstic [smilie=arrgh.jpg]

i think harrington wouldnt mind that role to get a ring...he knows hes getting paid this offseason....so hes not worried..

Also call me crazy, but Harrington could be a better fit than Prince on our roster as he's offer a low post game with Rasheed on the floor. Has Harrington learned to play and defense yet though?? Harrington would help us against Lebron James, because he's just as big and athletic as he is, probably RJ as well...

If we had to give up the Orlando pick for the Harrington rental, NO! That's a very good draft pick. And since we have no way of retaining Harrington unless we traded Dice for an expiring contract, a 3 month rental of a player like him is not worth that draft pick.

However, if it is OUR 2007 draft pick, ABSOLUTELY. We probably won't have room for two new rookies anyways. That will be a very late draft pick. But it seems like Atlanta could get more for Harrington and Lue than Cato and a late draft pick in 2007. Maybe they want Maxiell or Amir? That makes a little more sense.

Anybody know about Lue's health status?

One more scenario to consider: Maybe Joe D's luxury tax talk is one big bluff. Maybe he has the authority to go over the cap and that was his way of justifying that trade to the media, rather than saying he had this trade in mind. Also, when does Joe D ever flat-out tell the truth to the media? He has been known to play some games.

Just thought about something: can we trade our 2007 draft pick at all? Remember, you must draft in the first round at least one time every two years. We traded this year's draft pick away in the Arroyo deal. So, we must have a draft pick in 2007. We don't know if that Orlando pick is coming or not. It has top 5 protection, it might come in 2008. Putting it that way, I don't think we can trade our 2007 draft pick because that might put us scrambling to get a pick that year and will have to trade a pick from the future.

Just thought about something: can we trade our 2007 draft pick at all? Remember, you must draft in the first round at least one time every two years. We traded this year's draft pick away in the Arroyo deal. So, we must have a draft pick in 2007. We don't know if that Orlando pick is coming or not. It has top 5 protection, it might come in 2008. Putting it that way, I don't think we can trade our 2007 draft pick because that might put us scrambling to get a pick that year and will have to trade a pick from the future.

You are correct, We cannot trade our 2007 pick.

We can trade a future first round pick though, I believe that is a way to get around it. You don't need to have a pick every two years, but you need to have a one pick in the next two years. So we couldn't trade the 2007 pick now because we don't have a 2006, however once the 2006 pick is made we'd have a new two year window in which we'd need to have a pick - 2007 and 2008 and with the Orlando pick due, I think we'd be alright.

I'd rather take Delk and cut him(he's expiring anyways) then get Lue and have him under contract for two more years after this one. As long as Billups is playing 36 minutes a game you cannot justify paying a back-up $3.5+ per season to play 12 minutes a game.

I'd even through in Minnesota's second we're owed this year to sweeten the pot. a 2oo6 Minnesota 2nd rounder and a 2oo7 Detroit first rounder is a pretty good haul for a 3 mos rent-a-player. If Atlanta is looking for nothing but expiring contracts and draft picks in return, I like our chances. If they'd accept young players and players with one more year on their contracts, I think we are SOL.

you'd give up a first rounder for a player whose gone the following year?

tough decision, but i wouldn't.

you'd give up a first rounder for a player whose gone the following year?

tough decision, but i wouldn't.

The way I see it, I think if we acquired Harrington for the rest of this season, the title would be ours to lose. And I loathe overconfidence. Our 2oo7 pick would be 25+, but to tell you the truth I'd gladly give up the Orlando pick if it would give us the title this season. Two titles and a finals appearance(taken to seven games no less) in three years and I think we'd be considered a dynasty, especially since we simply wouldn't fall off the map next season either.

If we won, I think I'd really consider moving McDyess and re-signing Harrington, because McDyess can play one position, whereas Harrington can play three. Actually moving McDyess could be tough though.

you'd give up a first rounder for a player whose gone the following year?

tough decision, but i wouldn't.

The way I see it, I think if we acquired Harrington for the rest of this season, the title would be ours to lose. And I loathe overconfidence. Our 2oo7 pick would be 25+, but to tell you the truth I'd gladly give up the Orlando pick if it would give us the title this season. Two titles and a finals appearance(taken to seven games no less) in three years and I think we'd be considered a dynasty, especially since we simply wouldn't fall off the map next season either.

If we won, I think I'd really consider moving McDyess and re-signing Harrington, because McDyess can play one position, whereas Harrington can play three. Actually moving McDyess could be tough though.
Harrington wont take what we are paying Dice. I'd prefer to see Joe D find someone else if possible. but you guys are looking down the looking glass way to far with no knowledge of the variables in between.

Either way getting harrington doesnt make up for darko if we lose him the following year. the pick does IMO depending on how high it is. based on other scenarios where multiple teams wanted who we wanted(ala finley). i see ATL getting a better offer somewhere else and us not giving up a first rounder for him. A second rounder and cato makes better sense to me.

you'd give up a first rounder for a player whose gone the following year?

tough decision, but i wouldn't.

Not to sound like a dick but we had Arroyo what just over a year, and he cost us a first. Joe made the deal foe Sheed and gave up 2 firsts without the promise of Sheed staying. So I think it isn't unreasonable to give up a late`rd first to make sure the team is deep enough.

Dumars said that he wanted to lop of $12 million and he lopped off $15M, so he had $3M to play with - add $3M to McDyess' contract and I think that would be in Harrington's ballpark.

If he leaves, he leaves. I don't worry about that very late 2oo7 first rounder, as we'd have the top ten 2007 first rounder owed from Orlando and that year is deep in bigs.

If we chose Harrington over McDyess Harrington could play both small forward and powerforward, with a little bit of shooting guard depending on the opposition. McDyess is a power forward and power forward only. Maxiell could get minutes with Harrington here, I don't think he'll ever get any playing behind Rasheed Wallace and Antonio McDyess unless he groom him to back up Ben Wallace at center.

I'd offer our 2oo7 and the Minnesota 2oo6 second rounder without the option of the Orlando pick being conveyed if we re-signed Harrington. One shouldn't have any bearing on the other. At most I'd give Atlanta the option to flipflopping picks should Orlando finish with a better draft position(not in the top five of course).

If giving up a first rounder meant we would win the title this year or have an even greater shot than yeah I throw in the pick. All I know is what we have today, screw the future, I am willing to risk a first rounder to rent Harrington for the rest of the yr.

Chances to win the title don't come around often. Who the hell knows if we will ever get this close in my lifetime again. You just don't know.

The pick is an unknown at this point. Like I am going to waste a chance at the title if the pick turns out to be another Rodney White or Darko.

I'd give up our future late first pick for this too. We already have 3 young players waiting to develop and another one with the 2007/08 ORL pick. There is a limit to how many young players you need IMO.

Do the deal, get your ring, laugh.

One issue I see is this reeks of the Rasheed Wallace deal, and I think somebody will step up and overpay ridiculously to be "the one" this season. Enter Miami. This is probably it for Shaq and Zo, I could see Miami offering something nutty to get the deal done - however Atlanta would need to accept players with one year left on their deal because Miami doesn't have the expiring deal.

How ridiculous?? - Posey, Dorrell Wright, 2006 first rounder(Is this already owed to LA??), 2008 first rounder ridiculous.

If the pick is owed to LA, that would be a blow to Miami's chances. We have nothing to match Dorrell Wright though, however Atlanta really doesn't need another wingman.

Only comfort is that Dumars made this trade early for a reason. He could have held out for more as the deadline approached. A newspaper srticle said he was contacted by five other teams and offered packages with young players for Milicic. Could Dumars have contacted Atlanta to gauge interest and was told that they were looking to deal Harrington, however didn't want any salary in return?? COuld he have been so open about Brevin KNight(seemingly) during the interview as a somkescreen of sorts. He went out of his way to praise our current point guards, however said he was looking for a pg.

I think this deal is much too good to be true. I guess I'll wait with bated breath to Thursday.

What if Atlanta wanted Jason Maxiell in place of the 2007 first rounder?? What if they wanted both??

you'd give up a first rounder for a player whose gone the following year?

tough decision, but i wouldn't.

Not to sound like a dick but we had Arroyo what just over a year, and he cost us a first. Joe made the deal foe Sheed and gave up 2 firsts without the promise of Sheed staying. So I think it isn't unreasonable to give up a late`rd first to make sure the team is deep enough.
no need to apologize. nothing dickheaded in being honest. but we got something back in exchange for arroyo technically. with harrington we get nothing next year.

One issue I see is this reeks of the Rasheed Wallace deal, and I think somebody will step up and overpay ridiculously to be "the one" this season. Enter Miami. This is probably it for Shaq and Zo, I could see Miami offering something nutty to get the deal done - however Atlanta would need to accept players with one year left on their deal because Miami doesn't have the expiring deal.

How ridiculous?? - Posey, Dorrell Wright, 2006 first rounder(Is this already owed to LA??), 2008 first rounder ridiculous.

If the pick is owed to LA, that would be a blow to Miami's chances. We have nothing to match Dorrell Wright though, however Atlanta really doesn't need another wingman.

Only comfort is that Dumars made this trade early for a reason. He could have held out for more as the deadline approached. A newspaper srticle said he was contacted by five other teams and offered packages with young players for Milicic. Could Dumars have contacted Atlanta to gauge interest and was told that they were looking to deal Harrington, however didn't want any salary in return?? COuld he have been so open about Brevin KNight(seemingly) during the interview as a somkescreen of sorts. He went out of his way to praise our current point guards, however said he was looking for a pg.

I think this deal is much too good to be true. I guess I'll wait with bated breath to Thursday.

What if Atlanta wanted Jason Maxiell in place of the 2007 first rounder?? What if they wanted both??

Heat don't have a first rounder this season. It was traded to the Lakers in the Shaq trade. And the Pistons can't trade anyone else with Cato.

As for this trade, I wouldn't trade Orlando's first rounder to get Harrington and Lue. I don't think Lue's better than Arroyo.

If giving up a first rounder meant we would win the title this year or have an even greater shot than yeah I throw in the pick. All I know is what we have today, screw the future, I am willing to risk a first rounder to rent Harrington for the rest of the yr.

Chances to win the title don't come around often. Who the hell knows if we will ever get this close in my lifetime again. You just don't know.

The pick is an unknown at this point. Like I am going to waste a chance at the title if the pick turns out to be another Rodney White or Darko.
you are putting are title shot on harrington and i do not feel that its that deep at all. you make it seem like a matter of extreme desperation. that is just not the case IMO. a PG is by far a more important pickup. Everyone seems to think of it as an afterthought. but i wouldnt throw that pick away for another foward, harrington doesnt gaurantee shit.

I'll fucking cream myself if we get Al Harrington.

I'll fucking cream myself if we get Al Harrington.
no wonder you get attacked with a slew of homo jokes from WOD. [smilie=anxious.gif]

who havent you creamed yourself for? [smilie=arnold.gif]
i kid, but you left yourself a lil open for that one

if Joe D could get Harrington and a backup PG and NOT give away the Orlando draft pick, he'd become a God. Literally, he would transform into a God before our eyes, complete with shining white light radiating from around him.

you are putting are title shot on harrington and i do not feel that its that deep at all. you make it seem like a matter of extreme desperation.


Having a high quality bench is crucial to us getting that title back. Not having our starting 5 worn down by the time the ECF or Finals roll around is something that can't be ignored. We failed to win the title last year because we had no depth and our starters were overworked. We have Harrington last year Prince and Hamilton get 5-10 extra minutes of rest each game in the playoffs and Prince isn't the guy guarding Duncan in game 7 of the Finals (doub the series would have gone that far if we had Harrington). The bench is a problem.

i know it may be a longshot, but can anyone comment on Harrington's game lately? i honestly haven't watched him play lately. more importantly, how his game would fit in our current offense.

you are putting are title shot on harrington and i do not feel that its that deep at all. you make it seem like a matter of extreme desperation.


Having a high quality bench is crucial to us getting that title back. Not having our starting 5 worn down by the time the ECF or Finals roll around is something that can't be ignored. We failed to win the title last year because we had no depth and our starters were overworked. We have Harrington last year Prince and Hamilton get 5-10 extra minutes of rest each game in the playoffs and Prince isn't the guy guarding Duncan in game 7 of the Finals (doub the series would have gone that far if we had Harrington). The bench is a problem.

You are correct but you could just as easily substitute "Delfino and Evans" in there for Harrington. If they can improve the bench by adding Harrington that would be great but it's not at the level of desperation that it was last year when Delfino was off the playoff roster and instead of Evans we had Ham.

To me Harrington is morphed into more of a 4 than a 3. He is an alright jumpshooter, but is more post player. Not sure we could have minutes for him.

you are putting are title shot on harrington and i do not feel that its that deep at all. you make it seem like a matter of extreme desperation.


Having a high quality bench is crucial to us getting that title back. Not having our starting 5 worn down by the time the ECF or Finals roll around is something that can't be ignored. We failed to win the title last year because we had no depth and our starters were overworked. We have Harrington last year Prince and Hamilton get 5-10 extra minutes of rest each game in the playoffs and Prince isn't the guy guarding Duncan in game 7 of the Finals (doub the series would have gone that far if we had Harrington). The bench is a problem.
in most cases we are playing approximately one less minte than last year and approxiately one more than our title year. Not an extreme need of desperation IMO. And with arroyo out, the biggest key to our bench is the PG position no matter what way you cut it. We get an effective pg and everyone else off the bench will provide more help. Once again a SF/PF is not a desperate need. If this were about a point guard i'd agree somewhat. but its not and harrington isnt worth it as far as our first rounder goes..

also the playof roster was playing ridiculous starter minutes and i dont see that happening this year at all.

I have a question...Can JoeD legally talk to AH's agent about contract extension before the deal? They can sometimes but not sure about all the rules these days.

If he could talk to him and AH really wants to come to a contender for years (not just one) then he would sign a resonable extension...but then we'd lose the cap space the CA DM trade just got us.

At first, it doesn't seem to make sense to rent AH for Cato and a first, but if it means Miami didn't get him it might. I mean...are our first round picks really going to be worth that much over the next 3 years? Not imo.

I don't know enough on this possible trade either way, to have a real hard opinion on it.

Cato, Our 2008 first rounder, and the T-Wolves 2nd
----FOR----
Al Harrington and Tyonn Lue

Then, In the offseason, trade Dice (and his new ring) to a team with capspace for a TE and a pick, and re-sign Al.

We could probably trade Evans as well if necessary. Delfino moves to playing SG/PG more, and Al gets 25-30mpg backing up Sheed and Tayshaun.

I really don't want to give up that ORL pick for Al though. Especially considering we probably wouldn't end up re-signing him.

Can you imagine Al playing in the post next to Chauncey, Rip, Tayshaun, and Sheed? He would have a field day compared to this Hawks team.

Do the deal, get your ring, laugh. [smilie=rip.gif]

Also call me crazy, but Harrington could be a better fit than Prince on our roster as he's offer a low post game with Rasheed on the floor. Has Harrington learned to play and defense yet though?? Harrington would help us against Lebron James, because he's just as big and athletic as he is, probably RJ as well...

I would love that. In some games, Harrington should get the nod to start or atleast play more minutes than Tay. I still don't know if he is a 3 or a 4 or if he doesnt complain. Wasn't he the one who complained about minutes in Indy?

I agree with Gutz on this one. We need a back up PG more than a back up forward. Hopefully, Joe can make some kind of move that might be able to get us both. Who knows? It's Joe we are talkinga bout here

Atlanta is a perfect trading partner for us IMO.

They have SFs & PGs that they don't want/need and Joe D and Billy Knight are boys.

I have a feeling that Knight would rather help Joe than Pat Riley, especially if the packages being offered are similar.

Delk
Lue
Harrington
Childress

any of those would be fine with me.

If we score Harrington, I'd love to start him at the 3 and bring Tay off the bench.

you'd give up a first rounder for a player whose gone the following year?

tough decision, but i wouldn't.

I haven't read through this whole thread, and someone might have mentioned this already...

but if I were the GM of the best 6 man team in basketball, who are all in their primes, also had young guys like Delfino on the roster who don't get as many minutese as they deserve, and also have talented young guys who can't even get a minute of time on the court in Maxiell, Amir, Acker, etc on my roster, I'd trade a first round pick who wouldn't see the light of day on the court for at least a few years, if ever, for even a mere 10% better chance of winning a title this year.

This team has no room for draft picks - we've already seen this over and over and over the past few years.

With the exception of Tay, all of our draft picks rot on the bench or even get cut, while we win championships.

And with the exception of Tay and Delfino, our entire championship roster has been made up of free agents, not draft picks.

Shit, I'd give up two first round picks to rent Harrington for a few months, if it only meant a 10% better chance of winning the title this year.

In fact, I'll trade you two first round picks and two second round picks for Harrington, and if you act now, I'll even throw in this free jade pendent.

http://www.militarywives.com/catalog/images/large/jcccg-0048.jpg

To me Harrington is morphed into more of a 4 than a 3. He is an alright jumpshooter, but is more post player. Not sure we could have minutes for him.

Are you suggesting we have too many guys who can score in the post (which we obviously don't), or that he would take minutes away from Ben/Sheed/Dice if he played in the post?

If its a minutes issue, I think you're looking at this wrong.

I'd play Harrington in the post on offense, and have him chase sf on defense - all while on the court with any combination of Ben/Sheed/Dice, while Tay sits on the bench.

I would then sub Delfino in for Billups/Hamilton.

Problem solved.

Next question.

If this is legit Joe should give them the Magic pick, the Minny second and Cato and call it a day.

It's all about the championship.

I'm of the opinion that Darko and Arroyo were traded cause they suck and make too much.

IMO Davidson is willing to spend for contributors, but not weak ass scrubs who aren't even capable of playing 20 decent minutes.

That means Harrington and Lue are welcome.

The off-season implications?

Worry about that shit then.

We'd have the option of trading Dice or doing a sign and trade with Harrington.

To me Harrington is morphed into more of a 4 than a 3. He is an alright jumpshooter, but is more post player. Not sure we could have minutes for him.

Are you suggesting we have too many guys who can score in the post (which we obviously don't), or that he would take minutes away from Ben/Sheed/Dice if he played in the post?

If its a minutes issue, I think you're looking at this wrong.

I'd play Harrington in the post on offense, and have him chase sf on defense - all while on the court with any combination of Ben/Sheed/Dice, while Tay sits on the bench.

I would then sub Delfino in for Billups/Hamilton.

Problem solved.

Next question.

No, I am telling you he can't guard Richard Jefferson, Paul Pierce, any of the small forwards except for maybe Artest. We all know he can score, but I have doubts he can outscore the person he is guarding.

This team has no room for draft picks - we've already seen this over and over and over the past few years.
Ummm thats not true at all. this team has no time for projects. IE Darko. Otherwise we've had plenty of usable drafted players. Tay, Delfino, Okur, and probally maxiell.

Theres plenty of room for younger guys who can step up. the ones who cant get traded. oh well.

Fuck another foward. Flip is asinine enough as it is with the rotation on our wing players as it is. I want a pg or we should just move on. and 10 percent more chance is bs IMO.

It's all about the championship.
i remember telling darko whiners this and they swore it to be not true. [smilie=annoyed.gif]

giving all that up for harrington is senseless IMO. but to each his own.

I find this fucking hilarious actually.

Everyone was whining that we didn't have a back-up PG.

Then JS states that we might end up with Al Harrington and Tyronn Lue for Cato and the Magic pick.

People still complain.

The deal brings us a reasonably priced back-up PG that actually could fit into Flip's system.

You all know this too, so no one whines about Lue.

No, you gotta whine about Harrington.

Fuck off - this would be an awesome trade.

It basically means we dealt Darko and Arroyo for Lue and Harrington.

Nothing wrong with that.

Gutz, how is it senseless to give up Darko and Arroyo for Harrington and Lue?

Fuck Cato and the pick and think of it that way.

Some people just don't want to admit that Dumars makes mistakes and that this roster isn't perfect as is.

Some people just don't want to admit that Dumars makes mistakes and that this roster isn't perfect as is.
I got one better for you. some dont understand that the roster will NEVER be perfect as is. and to assume that harrington gets closer to complete more so than a solid pg is is a lil off IMO.

Tyrone lue=mateen cleeves with a slightly better jumper. no thank you.

Gutz, how is it senseless to give up Darko and Arroyo for Harrington and Lue?

Fuck Cato and the pick and think of it that way.
its still senseless. arroyo>Lue something serious and we already have a solid frontcourt. PG is the position that needs some usable depth. Its the single most important position in this corny offense we run. Fuck LUe, And cato too for that matter. he's off the books soon enough.

Tyrone lue=mateen cleeves with a slightly better jumper. no thank you.

from what i remember about cleaves is that his J was broke as hell. lue's stats:

45.5% FG

44.6% 3PT

82.9% FT

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3266

Lue seems to have a MUCH better jumper than cleaves and arroyo combined.

Gutz, how is it senseless to give up Darko and Arroyo for Harrington and Lue?

Fuck Cato and the pick and think of it that way.
its still senseless. arroyo>Lue something serious and we already have a solid frontcourt. PG is the position that needs some usable depth. Its the single most important position in this corny offense we run. Fuck LUe, And cato too for that matter. he's off the books soon enough.

HOW IS IT SENSELESS?

In your opinion Arroyo>Lue.

In mine? You're crazy. Lue is better suited for our system and his jumper is a hell of a lot better.

But, I'll consider you opinion and ask you this:

Isn't Harrington>>Darko?

I hope you put the pipe down and agree.

Face it: If it costs us the Magic pick to get 2 contributors we should fucking do it. It's a smart move, imrpoves the team and doesn't fuck the payroll.

Downside? According to some Harrington will bolt.

My take on that? Good, let him walk. That means Billy Davidson gets to re-sign Ben and extend Billups.

Ben + Billups >>>>>> Harrington every fucking minute of every fucking day.

Gutz, you still don't get it?

It's not a Arroyo>Lue discussion my man.

It's a Lue>"staying with what we have" discussion.

Oh, and throw in a solid low post player on an expiriing deal to give our frontcourt some much needed rest and flexibility.

C'mon, stop being difficult just for the sake of being difficult.

Damn, Gutz. I wouldnt show your face in this thread again. Pharaoh just gave you an E-Bitch smacking.



And you're crazy if you think Arroyo is better than Lou. Arroyo is a peice of shit.

Not to rain on anybodies parade, but other than the radio show JS heard this rumor on, I can't find it anywhere. Me thinks this is more of that radio show hosts made up rumor/theory than actually legit possibility. Unless that show host is really dialled in with insiders, it could be their equivalent to Pat Caputo talking basketball...

Kilo - it doesn't even fucking matter if the rumour is bullshit.

Once a thread is started it's all about what people think about said rumour.

And to be perfectly honest some people are fucked in the head if they wouldn't jump on this deal like it was Jessica Alba naked.

It's a no-brainer.

And yet some people that whined about our "lack" of PG depth are shooting this down.

Some people that whined about our "shitty" bench are shooting this down.

Even some of the people that whined about the Darko trade are shooting this down.

Fuck off with that bullshit.

Take the Orlando pick and shove it up your asses.

I really fucking wonder about some people. You want us to have a killer bench, maintain cap flexibility and have a draft pick coming in 2007 or 2008?

Isn't 2 out of 3 enough?

Fuck this shit - I'm going to bed.

New Jersey has two first round picks in 2oo6 and an expiring Cliff Robinson to deal however the deal with Harrington is that you don't know if you could re-sign him. And first round picks for a 3 mos rent-a-player is considered too steep a price.

Pharaoh, I agree, I was just saying is all. I actually like the trade better without Lue - as it would fit the financial model Dumars laid out in his post trade presser. I like the idea of Delfino getting minutes at the point, the minutes he'd lose at SF. If we brought in Lue, Harrington would eat up all of Delfino's minutes. Of course Harrington will only be here the rest of the season and play-off run...

The one chip we have over every play-off team is the Orlando pick. I don't think Dumars will want to part with that though. I think he'll drive a hard bargain, but always have that chip to play.

People only talk about the Jermaine O'Neal/Dale Davis trade because Portland never won a title.

If we had designs on resigning Harrington, I don't think Joe would think twice about parting with the Orlando pick, I mean he traded the 18 pick and our own to get expiring Rasheed Wallace and expiring Mike James.

. And first round picks for a 3 mos rent-a-player is considered too steep a price..
nobody wants to be realistic about that it seems. Yet somehow im being difficult. Funny. [smilie=applause.gi:

Gutz, how is it senseless to give up Darko and Arroyo for Harrington and Lue?

Fuck Cato and the pick and think of it that way.
its still senseless. arroyo>Lue something serious and we already have a solid frontcourt. PG is the position that needs some usable depth. Its the single most important position in this corny offense we run. Fuck LUe, And cato too for that matter. he's off the books soon enough.

HOW IS IT SENSELESS?

In your opinion Arroyo>Lue.

In mine? You're crazy. Lue is better suited for our system and his jumper is a hell of a lot better.

But, I'll consider you opinion and ask you this:

Isn't Harrington>>Darko?

I hope you put the pipe down and agree.

Face it: If it costs us the Magic pick to get 2 contributors we should fucking do it. It's a smart move, imrpoves the team and doesn't fuck the payroll.

Downside? According to some Harrington will bolt.

My take on that? Good, let him walk. That means Billy Davidson gets to re-sign Ben and extend Billups.

Ben + Billups >>>>>> Harrington every fucking minute of every fucking day.
well thats your take. Luckily we dont have you throwing away picks for us.Though i think anthony would vote you in for owner [smilie=2thumbsup.g: ...
The payroll is fine before this trade so fuck off with the *greener pastures* spin. Cato is off the books next year so whats your point?

Naive downside. But for more reality

Downside=Harrinton bolts and we get nothing in return for darko/arroyo. it'll be basically like we cut them both which would be retarded. Oh wait you have possible hear say that we get that frog looking fuck Lue. Wooo fucking Hooo [smilie=annoyed.gif] .

i like how you simplify things so naively when you wanna speak in your own favor. but the truth is harrington isnt worth the pick. i said before its a tough decision and on the very very very short term its tempting. but overall not worth it to me.

Somehow my take on this befuddles you and Mr Danzizzle himself. maybe its because you guys have done a 180 degree spin over your wet dream harrington. you both were playing the "darko fucks our future if he cant play up to potential" card. now i say throwing away a pick for a rent-a-guy on the team with the best record in the NBA is dicking around with our future pick, you cry a supreme foul of tears large enough to fill the red sea two times over.

Fair enough, agree to disagree. And you're right Glenn its not about Lue vs arroyo(especially since he may not even make it into the deal). its about rent a guy vs our pick. i choose our pick. You choose rent a guy. hows that for cut and dry? [smilie=2thumbsup.g:

Now if you harrington wet dreamers will excuse me, i think i've wasted enough time on this "rumor".[smilie=artist.gif]
give it a bump for revisitation if it actually happens. otherwise have a coke and a smile wetting your pants over Rent-A-Harrington propositions for days.

http://pce.jobing.com/company/logos/rac.gif

I elect Anthony for overhyping Bullshitter of the year.

Gutz, I have zero problem giving out OUR 2oo7 first round draft pick, it's just that I think it would take more than that. Other teams might be wary about giving up a draft pick for a rent-a-player becasue though Harrington would improve their team for the play-off run, I think Detroit would still be favorites and Miami is still going to be tough to beat with Shaq in the middle in the East and Dallas, San Antonio and PHX with Amare is still going to be tough to beat in the West.

There are elite teams and then also rans, New Jersey would probably be the most dangerous team to get Harrinton, but they'd still have three of those aformentioned "favorites" to get through AND Harrington could walk.

When we traded for Rasheed, Dumars did his homework and knew that Detroti would be willing to mean any reasonable contract demand from Rasheed, and that no other team would have the cap space necessary to lure him away for nothing. With Harrington, I believe there is a few teams that are interested in Harrington and have the cap space to burn, so it's dangerous for any team to trade for him, even if they want to try and re-sign him with his bird rights.

I don't agree with the idea that we trade the Orlando pick for Harrington UNLESS he is going to Miami otherwise. Then I might bite that bullet. I don't believe Dumars will even talk about the Orlando pick because we don't have plays to keep him(if Dumars is to be believed from his MIlicic pressers).

Cato is off the books next year so whats your point?

If that is your priority, then Harrington would be off the books next year too, AND we'd have a better shot at winning it all on top of that.


Downside=Harrinton bolts and we get nothing in return for darko/arroyo.

It's the same story as having Cato and a pick that might never crack the rotation. At least with this deal we'd have a better shot at a ring this year, and then we could have an asset in Harrington to S&T if we want to. Do you plan on S&Ting Cato? Maybe we'd even be able to S&T Harrington to Chicago for Hinrich or Duhon? Who knows? Why not go for the ring NOW?


Somehow my take on this befuddles you and Mr Danzizzle himself. maybe its because you guys have done a 180 degree spin over your wet dream harrington. you both were playing the "darko fucks our future if he cant play up to potential" card. now i say throwing away a pick for a rent-a-guy on the team with the best record in the NBA is dicking around with our future pick, you cry a supreme foul of tears large enough to fill the red sea two times over.

I don't know where you are getting that we've done a 180. Not at all. Maybe I'm just having a hard time understanding your point in between all of your confusing double talk. I can't remember the last time I said anything about Darko panning out (I can tell you that it's been a looooong time since that had any chance of happening here, check my posts from 2 years ago at RGM if you want). For me, for about the past two years it's been about getting as much as possible for him. This year, it's been about getting, at bare minimum, a ROTATION PLAYER TO HELP WIN THE TITLE NOW. How is wanting Harrington and another NBA calibre PG a 180 from that?

First of all just to be clear, the radio host were reading the names of players and teams who were looking to make moves.

They had a call in segment with beat writers. Like I said here it is a hodge podge fan base since no team is that close. One caller asked the SA beat writer about the Spurs trading for Harrington.

The beat writer then proceeded to go over the rumblings he has heard in regards to Al. It was at this time he mentioned Detroit and others were hot and heavy about AL. The caller then asked what can otherteams offer the Spurs can't? That is when he talked about the specifics of a possible trade with Detroit and called them front runners folr Al.

So just to be clear this came from a beat writer who covers the Spurs, not from the radio host, not from national radio. I just found it to be worth mentioning, considering Joe likes Harrington and wants a back up PG. I have no idea what the percentage chance a trade happens. I apologize that there is no secondary confirmation of this locally for you guys. However can somebody tell me the last time a Detroit beat writer was on top of things? They all have been scooped and embarassed badly the last 2 years or so. involving trades. So if it is not being talked about in Detroit I woudn't put too much stock in that, not just because I heard it. I guess I don't care for the Detroit media, for example the last 3 year every pistons post game, chat, Q&A etc... all the talk was Darko, then when he gets dealt it's like the local media acts like he was Horace Jenkins not the uy picked ahead of countless studs.

Interesting to note that Detroit plays Atlanta tomorrow - maybe Knight and Dumars could have a face-to-face. In the very least we'll get an up close and personel view of Harrington a couple of days before the trade deadline.

I wonder if we'll "test him out" during the game...

What about trading the Orlando pick, however getting a protected Atlanta pick in return should the pick end up in the lottery(Orlando miss the playoffs the year the pick is sent over). The Atlanta pick would be lottery protected from 2oo8 on.

So the trade woudl look something like Kelvin Cato, 2oo7 Orlando Magic first rounder top five protected or 2008 Orlando Magic unprotected first rounder in return for Al Harrington, Tyronn Lue and a conditional future Atlanta first rounder top 13 protected forever?? The conditions on the pick would be that the pick would no longer be owed if we re-signed Harrington(not bloody likely) or Orlando made the play-offs and the pick was 14th+.

I love the trade deadline.

@Glenn: I said bump me after it actually happens damnit. [smilie=angryfire.g: ..

@Js:Thank you for the extra details. Provides a lil clarity on the nature of the scenario which helps somewhat in knowing the odds of it becoming what some people here want.


@Fool: I like trade deadlines as much as i like running people over with land rovers. [smilie=artist.gif]

@Kilo: I was also talking about the Orlando pick. And maybe first rounders in general. I do think miami would be the obvious team to offer the most for him. Lets face it, they need something to compete with us.

I guess I don't care for the Detroit media


I Agree.

Jason, I wasn't calling you out or anything for mentioning the rumor I was just looking for confirmation on other team sites just to see how legit it was(hoping). I always love a juicy rumor and glad you mentioned it as it has given us something to talk about around here the last couple o' days.

I agree that the beat writers for the most part around here kiss Joe's ring and basically toe the company line. If they heard a rumor, tried to confirm if from Joe and he told them to sit on it, I believe they would.

I disagree completely that you trade the Orlando Magic pick. How much better does Al Harrington honestly make us? Sure, we're a little bit better, but not by a whole lot. We'll give him Evans' minutes and some of Dyess' and Sheed's, but we are great leaving those guys in there, check the record. And we wouldn't keep Harrington for more than 3 months. That draft pick has lottery potential. If the balls fall correctly in 2008 we get Greg Oden. Do any of you expect Orlando to go anywhere anytime soon? They are about to trade Steve Francis. Dwight Howard is good, but he can't carry a team to a winning season. And we all know about Darko.

And remember, this isn't the Al Harrington deal, or nothing. There are other trades out there that improve our team without giving up that draft pick in return.

If it is true like some of you say that this trade guarantees us a Championship, of course I'll trade that pick. But I don't think it's that simple.

For the people in the cheap seats:

Trading Cato and the Magic pick to Atlanta for Lue and Harrington is not renting a player.

It is strengthening our bench for the playoffs.

It is maintaining cap flexibility this off-season.

It is having more options in the 2006 off-season.

It is increasing our chances of winning the title this season.

Bad trade?

Fuck off.

Spin it whatever way you want it but you won't convince me we come out of this "rumoured" deal worse than we are now.

There is no fucking way we'd be worse.

Has anyone thought about sign and trade options with Chicago?

We could sign and trade Al Harrington to Chicago for Michael Sweetney and the lower first rounder the Bulls have in 2007 (either their own or the Knicks)

Sweetney would have an expiring contract then. Why would the Bulls deal him? Not much playing time with Harrington around and considering they'll add 2 high picks in the 2006 Draft I doubt they'll need him at all.

At the next trade deadline we'd have Sweetney, Davis and the pick to deal if a "Sheed"-like option came around.

But we can't mention that. We're only renting Harrington for 3 months. No need to look long-term, right Gutz?

I wonder if we won the title would people think this trade was worth it?

I wonder if we managed to turn Cato and the Magic pick into Sweetney, Lue and the Bulls 2007 pick would people like this "rumour"

And sure it's just a rumour, but like I said it doesn't even matter at this point. We're debating opinions here.

And I could defend my opinion until the end of time because I can see that this deal not only strengthens our bench for the title run and maintains the cap flexibility we currently have but gives Joe a chance at pulling off a good deal down the road as well.

With Cato and the Mgic pick our options aren't as good.

Bottom Line:

Harrington and Lue >>>>>Cato and the Magic pick RIGHT NOW

In the off-season we'd be able to sign and trade Harrington for a player (maybe Michael Sweetney) and a pick in 2007.

So, I just fucking turned our Magic pick and Cato into:

A better bench for the title run.
Another young big man.
A different pick in 2007 (though lower in the first round)
And got a fucking back- up PG as well

Stupid me.

Lucky I don't run the team? Only some of the time.

Trading Cato and the Magic pick to Atlanta for Lue and Harrington is not renting a player.
How is it not? Harrington will be here for 3 months. We have no cap flexibility to keep him. Besides, even if we did, he'd likely go elsewhere to start. That's what happened in Indiana, he requested that trade.


It is strengthening our bench for the playoffs.
True that. But again, this isn't the ONLY possible trade out there. If it were this or nothing, I would do this. But there are other options that don't have us giving up that valuable draft pick.


It is maintaining cap flexibility this off-season.
We're already there, this trade doesn't change any of that.


It is having more options in the 2006 off-season.
We don't really need options. We are 42-9.


It is increasing our chances of winning the title this season.
I'll give you that. But I don't really think Harrington makes us that much better. His two positions are the 3 and the 4. We have Carlos Delfino and Antonio McDyess there, I feel fine. And again, there are other trades out there that will help us.


Spin it whatever way you want it but you won't convince me we come out of this "rumoured" deal worse than we are now.
I never said we would be worse.


But we can't mention that. We're only renting Harrington for 3 months. No need to look long-term, right Gutz?
The Orlando Magic pick helps us long term.


I wonder if we won the title would people think this trade was worth it?
Good question. There is no way to measure if this trade was "the difference." I like our chances even without this trade. But if we did win the title, people would be praising Joe for this move, and I've got no problem with praising Joe.


With Cato and the Mgic pick our options aren't as good.
That Magic pick will be a sought after comodity. Much more than Al Harrington or Tyronne Lue.




And I'm not just an anti-every trade guy. I was one of the few that stook up for the Darko trade.

The more I look at this deal it doesn't seem plausible.

Why in the hell Atlanta would trade Harrington to us for some average draft picks and capspace?

If the rumoured deal is true - Awesome!!, Joe is a god and we bolster our bench for the title run.

If Atlanta make this trade I think that franchise is making decisions according to the groundhogs shadow.

And I don't really like Sweetney on this team. The advantage that a guy like Harrington brings is that he can compliment a player like Antonio McDyess and play the small forward against players like Richard Jefferson. He is a change-up to what we currently have in the frontcourt.

Sweets does have a power post game, but he is limited to the 4 position, and I'd rather play a guy like Maxiell because of his defense. And if Chicago really wants Harrington, they'll just sign him. I don't think we can pry a first round pick out of them. I think they would like clearing Sweets off the cap, but not for that price.

The more I look at this deal it doesn't seem plausible.

Why in the hell Atlanta would trade Harrington to us for some average draft picks and capspace?.
First Round picks arent an "average" commodity in this league. average is more for the 2nd round picks. Atlanta would be dumping a player that they nor we could resign. And getting a first round pick in return. Why wouldnt they?

The pick doesnt even have to be used. they could slang it out to improve their team with a solid player via trade in the offseason. That Orlando pick is worth something on the market.

I think the Orlando pick is going to pan out very nicely. That is one of the worse run teams in the league. Grant Hill is on their bench. They traded McGrady for Francis. They drafted Fran Vazquez who might never play here. They are now going to trade Francis for an expiring deal or something like that. They have been cellar dwellers for the past 3 years and I don't see any of that changing. I think they will be very dissapointed with Darko. They will probably be in the bottom 5 in 2007 and the pick will come in 2008, in the lottery. That draft could potentially have Greg Oden and OJ Mayo in it.

Skelly:

I think I stated my case pretty clearly.

We have cap flexibility now but no back-up PG.

We get a back-up PG while maintaining that flexibility

We add Harrington, who's addition allows Tayshaun to rest more than usual. That alone makes us better for the playoffs.

In the off-season we can do a sign and trade to turn Harrington into another asset. That means we're not renting him, just using him for the playoffs. After that we get something else for him.

We are swapping one trading chip (the Magic pick) for another (Harrington) while getting a back-up PG.

Harrington in a sign and trade helps us long-term just like the Magic's pick.

Look, I doubt I'll ever understand the stance some people have taken on this rumour or the Darko trade.

People whined about us not having a back-up PG and losing Darko for a pick that has protection.

Now those same people are whining about turning that pick and Cato into Harrington and Lue? WTF?

The Darko trade was the right move IMO. The pick is gonna be good and the cap flexibility is something Joe has maintained for a while.

And if he does this deal it's the right move again. It helps us now and long-term (by doing a S&T with Harrington)

Either way I'm happy with Joe and his recent move(s)

Oh well, I don't like this trade. And I'm not whining. I won't be too upset if we do this trade, I'll just accept the fact that Joe knows quite a bit more about this than I do. And again, I'd rather do this than nothing. But I think there are better solutions.

harrington doesnt make our bench that much better?!?!? you gotta be kidding me. he would be a front runner for soy if he played here a year. he'd be the post presence we dont have enough of. he's talented enough to take a starting job. we do that trade, we'd probably win the championship in under 20 games.

BUT, no chance we'd be able to keep him. even if he was willing to stay here, he might get $10 million (not joking). so thats out.

also, i'd be all the more frustrating that we didnt trade darko LAST year for AH.

plus he's a piston killer. better to have those guys on your team, than on SA or miami.

Let me further clarify myself:

If Joe D were given authority to go over the luxury tax and the Darko trade was just to set up this sort of deal and the cap explanation of the trade by Joe to the media was just a big bluff to justify himself, I would support this trade.

But, judging by the Corliss trade, the Darko trade, some of the things Joe has said, and some articles by insiders like A. Sherrod Blakely, Joe has not been given authority to go over the tax mark.

So, I completely disagree that this trade leaves us with "options." I think we have close to no options. We cannot re-sign Harrington to a long term deal because of the luxury tax unless we trade Dyess for an expring deal, which I am not into. If we sign-and-trade Al, it has to be a guy with 1 year left on his deal, and then that particular player would have to sign elsewhere in the offseason because there is no room under the luxury tax after Billups is re-signed. I truly see Al as a rental player.

When I look at our bench, I think the strongest two positions are the 3 and the 4 with Carlos Delfino and Antonio McDyess. Those are the two positions that Harrington plays.

If we are going to trade that great draft pick, wouldn't you want to get a player in return that would address more of our needs? Yeah, we get Lue, but he is not worth that pick. And looking at that trade past this season, that is what the trade will be: Orlando Magic draft pick for Tyronne Lue.

And let's not forget a healthy Cato could still be of value as a 4th big man.

, I completely disagree that this trade leaves us with "options." I think we have close to no options. We cannot re-sign Harrington to a long term deal because of the luxury tax unless we trade Dyess for an expring deal, which I am not into. If we sign-and-trade Al, it has to be a guy with 1 year left on his deal, and then that particular player would have to sign elsewhere in the offseason because there is no room under the luxury tax after Billups is re-signed. I truly see Al as a rental player.


This leaves us many options on the court. We become more flexible. Off the court, I only see one option and that is to dump him. There is no chance unless like skelly mentioned do a sign and trade of some sort. Who the fuck cares if he is a rental player? If he's going to give us that ring just for one pick in 2007, then that would be the smart choice.


When I look at our bench, I think the strongest two positions are the 3 and the 4 with Carlos Delfino and Antonio McDyess. Those are the two positions that Harrington plays.

I don't get many of the Pistons game but from what I have read, Isn't Delfino more of a 2? There were ideas of him playing at the 1 so I'm going to guess he could take a few minutes at the 2 and 1. So Delfino can play the 2 while Harrington backs up Tay and Sheed along with Dice so we can go BIG in our lineup.



If we are going to trade that great draft pick, wouldn't you want to get a player in return that would address more of our needs? Yeah, we get Lue, but he is not worth that pick. And looking at that trade past this season, that is what the trade will be: Orlando Magic draft pick for Tyronne Lue.

No, not really. I think Glenn or Pharoah mentioned it but its really Darko and Arroyo for Harrington and Lue. That trade owns ass.
If you don't want to take that shit, then it's really almost guaranteeing the rings. I would love to win the finals this season with us having a kick ass record and shit. That pick does nothing but help the future. We don't need the future right now, we have the finals right in our palms. We should seize that fucking chance and win the finals.


And let's not forget a healthy Cato could still be of value as a 4th big man.

Sheed, Ben, DD, and even Harrington could help out. We don't need Cato on the court.

So, I completely disagree that this trade leaves us with "options." I think we have close to no options. We cannot re-sign Harrington to a long term deal because of the luxury tax unless we trade Dyess for an expring deal, which I am not into. If we sign-and-trade Al, it has to be a guy with 1 year left on his deal, and then that particular player would have to sign elsewhere in the offseason because there is no room under the luxury tax after Billups is re-signed. I truly see Al as a rental player.


Skelly:

IF we did a sign and trade with a team that had cap space we wouldn't have to take back a huge salary or a long contract.

Example was Chicago so I'll stick with it:

Assume they send us Michael Sweetney (plus the pick I mentioned earlier). He accounts for almost $3,000,000.

Since the Bulls would be under the cap they can take back a lot of salary. Harrington could get a MAX contract for all I care, it doesn't effect the trade at all.

I doubt this happens. I've seen no reports on it anywhere and time is running out.

Where are the "better solutions" Skelly?

I havent heard of any.

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/hawks/stories/0221hawks.html


Choice ahead on Harrington

By SEKOU SMITH
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 02/21/06

Auburn Hills, Mich. — Hawks co-captain Al Harrington's immediate future won't be clear until after 5 p.m. Thursday.

That's the day and time of the NBA's trade deadline, independence day for players on the move as well as those not going anywhere.

The freedom comes from an end to the nonstop speculation about what might happen, particularly for those players who aren't going anywhere.

And as of this morning, Harrington isn't going anywhere.

"I'm not even sweating that stuff," Harrington said after the Hawks wrapped up practice at Oakland University on Monday night in preparation for tonight's game against Detroit. "There's no need for that. I know who I am as a player and that I have a job to do for the next 32 games, whether that's in an Atlanta Hawks uniform or some other uniform.

"I'm a pro, first and foremost, so everything else has its place."

Harrington, whose name has been prominent in trade rumors since draft night, will be one of the most coveted free agents at season's end.

Playing in a contract year, Harrington has been putting up career bests in points (18.3) and rebounds (6.9) while helping the 16-34 Hawks blow past their win total for all of last season (13). And despite what the NBA rumor mill says, his right knee is the picture of health.

Still, there is a dilemma for the Hawks, who figure to be a major player on the free-agent market this summer. They have to decide if and how Harrington fits into their future plans — they have a surplus of small forwards with Josh Smith, Josh Childress and Marvin Williams all eager for minutes.

They also have to decide what price they are willing to pay for a player with a tag expected to exceed $45 million-$50 million over five years. Harrington's current deal pays him $6.8 million this season.

"Sometimes the best things in life [are] right in your face and hopefully Atlanta has the foresight to recognize that," said Harrington's agent, Andy Miller. "The Hawks have what 29 other teams are looking for and they've had the luxury of watching him play with them and getting to know him for almost two years now.

"I don't think Al has a peer in this free-agent class when you consider that here is a guy that gives you 20 [points] and eight [rebounds] every night, is just 26 years old and 6-foot-9. There are few players in the league who possess that particular combination of production and skills."

Hawks coach Mike Woodson realizes it's a matter that might not be resolved until after this season, depending on what happens between now and Thursday.

"That's something that Al, our ownership and [Hawks general manager] Billy [Knight] will work through," Woodson said. "Right now there is nothing on the table as far as a trade. And even if there was, Al is an Atlanta Hawk right now. And we like what he's about.

"Al will be one of the top free agents, there's no doubt about that. So we do have to weigh that when you start evaluating the young guys and where Al fits into the picture. The bottom line is that Al is a quality piece to what we're trying to do here, and I don't think you can throw that out the window."

Yet, finding a way to keep Harrington and develop Smith, Williams and Childress at the same time will always be a hurdle. The fight for quality minutes will only get more intense as the youngsters continue to mature.

The Hawks are still in need of major help inside — two more big men would take the pressure off of Zaza Pachulia and the rest of the undersized frontcourt rotation — and could also use a veteran point guard.

Harrington, with his expiring contract and potential impact on a veteran-laden playoff team, would appear to be the ideal bargaining chip to make something happen.

"I've always tried to let my performance and my professionalism, both on and off the floor, speak for me," said Harrington, who's helped the Hawks win five of their past eight games. "I know a lot has been said and a lot will continue to be said about me and my situation. But that stuff is irrelevant to me. My focus is on finishing these last 32 games like we've played the last eight.

"Everything else will work itself out the way it was intended to work out."

I'm kindof split on this deal (rumored or not).

I was very opposed to trading Darko for Al at the beginning of the year. I wanted to see if Flip could use Darko. I also didn't like the idea that Al might not be used much.

I would like this deal, provided that we actually use Al 20+ minutes a game. Best case would probably be to start Prince, and sub Al in early for him. Then Prince would come in for Billups and run the point. We'd have a severe mismatch for us with Al at the 3, RIP or Delfino at the 2 and Prince at the point. Prince or Al would post up a lot in this situation. This deal would definately provide instand offense for us. Al is basically a taller, quicker Corliss that can actually rebound. Not a great defender, but few 6th, 7th men are complete players anyway. Besides, he would be playing with other great defenders.

I would prefer it not to be the Orlando pick. However, if we get Al to resign then I would do it. If it's a one year rental, I would demand it's our pick.

Maybe the money that woulda been used to give Darko a new contract would be used to resign AL instead. I dunno...i would just really like to see the trade happen.

My only concern is what happens to the whole evans/delfino thing. Do you think they start fighting with each other for each others even more limited minutes?

I'm cooling on the trade because I don't know Harrington's intentions. It seems to be all about him. He wants to prove he is a winner now and have play-off experince because that would be a knock against him in free-agent bargaining. I get the feeling like the guy is all about the money, and I wonder if he'd be here to play team basketball or try to steal the show during the play-offs to increase his contract offers this summer.

He's put up good numbers on a bad team, but it's a bad team with no forward help meaning his rebound numbers are probably inflated. Would Harrington be happy coming here playing 20 minutes a game and how would he adapt to playing with four players better than him on the court. What would his reaction be if his numbers took a serious hit - Would he start jacking up shots and barbing it to get his personal numbers up??

Also reguarding Tyronn Lue he's out another two to three weeks - I know we wouldn't have any reason to need him know, but ideally we'd want to start acclaimating a new pointguard to our systems and plays.

Josh (ATL): Al Harrington - Staying or going?

Marc Stein: (11:29 AM ET ) Staying. Hawks will try to re-sign him in the summer and then try to get something for him in a sign-and-trade if they can't.

I'm kindof split on this deal (rumored or not).

I was very opposed to trading Darko for Al at the beginning of the year. I wanted to see if Flip could use Darko. I also didn't like the idea that Al might not be used much.

I would like this deal, provided that we actually use Al 20+ minutes a game. Best case would probably be to start Prince, and sub Al in early for him. Then Prince would come in for Billups and run the point. We'd have a severe mismatch for us with Al at the 3, RIP or Delfino at the 2 and Prince at the point. Prince or Al would post up a lot in this situation. This deal would definately provide instand offense for us. Al is basically a taller, quicker Corliss that can actually rebound. Not a great defender, but few 6th, 7th men are complete players anyway. Besides, he would be playing with other great defenders.

I would prefer it not to be the Orlando pick. However, if we get Al to resign then I would do it. If it's a one year rental, I would demand it's our pick.
We actually risk moving delfino off the rotation with this move. Flip plays evans over him just on general principle and doesnt care if Delfino is better than him. He has no problem keeping Evans at the 2 and bringing Delfino once in a blue moon, with Delfino eventually cracking under pressure losing more minutes if we do make this trade. Probally will want to be traded himself.

Maybe not. But i honestly think Delfino is Piston made to the point of being a serious asset over the next few years, and it would suck to see him get lost in the shuffle.

Maybe not. But i honestly think Delfino is Piston made to the point of being a serious asset over the next few years, and it would suck to see him get lost in the shuffle.

i completely agree.....Delfino has some serious talent. we need to keep throwing minutes at him and see how he responds.

i wouldn't mind if Delfino got 100% of Evan's minutes for the rest of the year.

Flip said that Delfino has earned more minutes the second half of the season and was really impressed with his defense. I hope they see him as more than Pitbull#2, and I hope Delfino gets more confidence to shoot.

i wouldn't mind if Delfino got 100% of Evan's minutes for the rest of the year.
Agreed but unless Fool hits evans with his car, wont happen. Flip has adopted evans and Delfino is the other foster kid he's keeping for Tax reasons.

I hope Delfino gets more confidence to shoot.
Actually i'd prefer if he got more confidence to drive to the basket. whether he dishes or shoots is up to him. His ability to get to the hole improves our effectiveness on offense ten fold.

Flip said that Delfino has earned more minutes the second half of the season and was really impressed with his defense. I hope they see him as more than Pitbull#2, and I hope Delfino gets more confidence to shoot.

unfortunately, Flip's been saying stuff like that, but hasn't really shown it. i remember early in the season, he said he was thinking about some kind of structured minutes distribution (forgot how he phrased it), to limit the starter's minutes.

BUT, here's to hoping he keeps his word for the second half of the season.

i always say that with Mo, we've seen his peak. there isn't much more beyond what he does now, that he'll offer. with Delfino, his ceilling is still open.

We actually risk moving delfino off the rotation with this move. Flip plays evans over him just on general principle and doesnt care if Delfino is better than him. He has no problem keeping Evans at the 2 and bringing Delfino once in a blue moon, with Delfino eventually cracking under pressure losing more minutes if we do make this trade. Probally will want to be traded himself.


I don't believe that Flip has any alterior motives. He must bring Evans in for some reason over Delfino. Maybe he wants a more physical rebounder. Not sure. Maybe he thought Evans fit Arroyo's game more, who knows? I want to see how his rotation changes with Arroyo gone now before hammering Flip for that. But I do agree Delfino needs to see the court over Evans. In my senario, Delfino would be limited to SG backup only (15 MPG). Unless Al would phase out Dyess some, that's the way it would have to be.

Like I said, I'm not sure what he likes about Evans more than Delfino when he brings him in, but he has no reason to sabatoge anyone. Flip would play the best player, period.

Does anybody think they would do Childress & Delk for Cato's deal and the Minny 2nd?

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2373~198~139&teams=8~8~1

ATL would net $5.7m in cap relief and we'd stay under the tax threshold and really strengthen our bench.

We actually risk moving delfino off the rotation with this move. Flip plays evans over him just on general principle and doesnt care if Delfino is better than him. He has no problem keeping Evans at the 2 and bringing Delfino once in a blue moon, with Delfino eventually cracking under pressure losing more minutes if we do make this trade. Probally will want to be traded himself.


I don't believe that Flip has any alterior motives. He must bring Evans in for some reason over Delfino. Maybe he wants a more physical rebounder. Not sure. Maybe he thought Evans fit Arroyo's game more, who knows? I want to see how his rotation changes with Arroyo gone now before hammering Flip for that. But I do agree Delfino needs to see the court over Evans. In my senario, Delfino would be limited to SG backup only (15 MPG). Unless Al would phase out Dyess some, that's the way it would have to be.

Like I said, I'm not sure what he likes about Evans more than Delfino when he brings him in, but he has no reason to sabatoge anyone. Flip would play the best player, period.

the only thing i've heard that remotely explains the situation was on a radio interview Flip had on wdfn.

he mentioned that Mo seemed to play better when he was brought in early (i.e. before delfino). he said that he suspected that Mo was worried that it was a competition between the two. he didn't flat out say he was bringing in mo early to "make him feel better" or "up his confidence". but that as close as an explanation i've heard from Flip.

I don't see any reason why Atlanta would do it. I think they could get much more return for Childress, even a decent pointguard for example.

Like I said, I'm not sure what he likes about Evans more than Delfino when he brings him in, but he has no reason to sabatoge anyone. Flip would play the best player, period.
not true. and its not sabotage. its legitimate favortism and comfort in a player he has coached before. You've seen with your own eyes over the past month Delfino outplaying Evans , yet sometimes playing even less the next game. Delfino has to play way better than evans to get time over him. thats favortism. sabotage is him out to get Delfino. i dont think that at all. Delfino is a casualty of Flip trying to get his former player as much of a chance to suceed as possible and then some.

IF we did a sign and trade with a team that had cap space we wouldn't have to take back a huge salary or a long contract.
You call those options? That is a VERY limited field there. A high first round pick brings much more "options" than this scenario.


Where are the "better solutions" Skelly?

I havent heard of any.
Pharoah, all we need to do is find a backup point guard. This guard will play about 8 minutes per contest in the playoffs. I'd swing a second round pick for Pargo, or trade Cato and a 2nd rounder to Houston for David Wesley and trade exception, I'd trade a couple 2nd's out to Seattle for Flip Murray. This way, we find a capable point guard, and keep that pick so we have options and flexibility in the future.

The greedy ones here (like me) would like a solid backup combo guard (Pargo would be okay) and another backup for Tay, one that is capable of guarding the bigger SFs that Delfino and Evans can't.

That's where I came up with the Delk/Childress deal. I still think that would be crazy good. I'd even throw them our 2007 1st (not the Orlando pick).

The greedy ones here (like me) would like a solid backup combo guard (Pargo would be okay) and another backup for Tay, one that is capable of guarding the bigger SFs that Delfino and Evans can't.

That's where I came up with the Delk/Childress deal. I still think that would be crazy good. I'd even throw them our 2007 1st (not the Orlando pick).
I don't mind the trade, I'm just not sold on Delk. He hasn't played much the last 2 seasons and I don't really have an idea what we'd be getting in return.

If healthy, Cato could be a good 4th big man. I don't know about you guys, but I haven't been sold on Dale Davis at all. Shaq has abused him in the time they've played against eachother. And that's not Davis' fault, he is just too small to guard Shaq. Elden could match bodies and give him fits, Shaq gets whatever he wants against Davis. Kelvin is slightly bigger, but he is also more atheletic at this stage of his career. Dale was also brought in as a rebounding specialist. The numbers show he's been a very average rebounder. He averages 0.25 rebounds per minute. Ben Wallace averages 0.34 rebounds per minute. I know everybody looks bad against Ben, but a guy like Antonio McDyess averages 0.24 rebounds per minutes. Kelvin Cato averages 0.21 rebounds per minute. Darko averages 0.20 rebounds per minute. And even a guy like Carlos Delfino (who has better rebounding numbers than Evans, actually) averages 0.17 rebounds per minute. So for a guy whose forte is rebounding and defense, I haven't been satisfied at all. Especially with that contract we gave him.

Davis hasn't even been given a chance to play yet. While appreciated, those stats are somewhat statistically insignificant IMO with the few minutes that he's played.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/404/gamelog;_ylt=AkrvqYo.0ruM8vFrr04gf2ukvLYF

They had to DNPCD him most nights to protect Darko's ego.

Hopefully he can start getting some regular minutes now so he can get into game shape.

If you believe Joe, holding DD (and Lindsey) back until now has been the plan all along.

I think DD can be a big help, but if Joe ends up wanting to keep Cato, we'll have too much duplication there IMO.

They had to DNPCD him most nights to protect Darko's ego.
Oh, come on Glenn. This team shattered Darko's ego the first month he was in here. I highly doubt Dale's small amount of minutes have anything to do with Darko's ego. If that cared that much about his ego, they would have played him.


I think DD can be a big help, but if Joe ends up wanting to keep Cato, we'll have too much duplication there IMO.
From the words of Joe Dumars, "You can never have too many big men."

Dale Davis was a warrior for the Pacers last season, and I expect much of the same output when he starts getting consistant minutes. He wasn't brought because he could guard Shaq - nobody can. He was brought in so Prince would never have to guard Tim Duncan again.

Cato could help us if he stays with us, but I wouldn't call him a better player than Dale Davis. Davis has looked bad this year because he's getting no playing time. Cato could have better success against Shaq though - I'll give you that. He's listed at 280lbs and probably gained another 10lbs or so since he can't be on his foot. Shaq says he's 330lbs, if we could throw a 290lb Cato on him for five or so minutes a game, I think that would really help Ben out. The thing with Cato would be could he beat Shaq down the floor - because the key to beating the Heat is to push the ball and make Shaq sprint the floor - if he can lollygag back beside Cato we are not getting any benefit.

So you don't think holding back DD and even Maxiell a bit had anything to do with Darko?

I suppose you probably think that having Darko on the playoff roster last year was a strategy move too?

So you don't think holding back DD and even Maxiell a bit had anything to do with Darko?
Absolutely


I suppose you probably think that having Darko on the playoff roster last year was a strategy move too?
In the words of Joe Dumars, "You can never have too many big men."

I believe that to be true. Flip and Joe didn't want to make "the statement" by playing Davis and even Maxiell over Milicic.

The popular belief is Milicic simply couldn't get playing time over Rasheed, Ben and Antonio. If he was playing behind Dale Davis and even Jason Maxiell, I think the message sent would have been much different than a talented kid who is playing behind three All-Star type players...

But he was playing behind Dale Davis. Ever since the game against Larry Brown, Dale has gotten in there in front of Darko. All except for that Bobcat game.

But he was playing behind Dale Davis. Ever since the game against Larry Brown, Dale has gotten in there in front of Darko. All except for that Bobcat game.

Perhaps once they made the decision to trade Darko, they didn't need to handle him with kid gloves as much as they did before.

You have to see that Maxiell going on the inactive list was to keep Darko from melting down, right?

You don't honestly think that Darko was more deserving than Max of being dressed do you?

The greedy ones here (like me) would like a solid backup combo guard (Pargo would be okay) and another backup for Tay, one that is capable of guarding the bigger SFs that Delfino and Evans can't.

That's where I came up with the Delk/Childress deal. I still think that would be crazy good. I'd even throw them our 2007 1st (not the Orlando pick).

Cato, 2008 1st rounder, and Minny's 2nd rounder to Toronto for James & Eric Williams. How about that?

[smilie=blush.gif]

Maybe the real trade was arroyo for acker and darko for maxiell. [smilie=artist.gif]

You don't honestly think that Darko was more deserving than Max of being dressed do you?
Sure I do. What has Max done in this league to be placed ahead of Darko? Darko isn't a bum. He's got skills. Maxiell is a rook who needs to earn his time. I'll take a skilled 7 footer on my roster over a 6-7 power forward every day of the week. I'm suprised you would think differently.

First time I've seen this rumor in print:


AL HARRINGTON (F, ATLANTA) - The 6-9 Harrington has a lot of value. Atlanta will get plenty of calls about his availability, but its best move would probably be to hold on to him and try and sign him to a deal that will keep him the club.

Harrington has had a solid season for the Hawks and could be viewed as a player that can help a contender get to the next level. The Pistons may try and work a deal for Harrington, who would give them the extra depth and make them even tougher up front.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/nba/7295265/detail.html

I have no doubts about Al Harrington as a player, I just don't like the fact that we have no way of keeping him at year's end. If I knew we could lock Harrington up long-term, I would definitely do this deal.

Well, if we were going to have a bad game, tonight was the night to do it. Should give Dumars more incentive to add another player.

If we do trade with the Hawks, I hope we give away Evans. I don't even care if we get something in return for him, I just want him gone and Delfino get all his minutes.

If we do trade with the Hawks, I hope we give away Evans. I don't even care if we get something in return for him, I just want him gone and Delfino get all his minutes.
You feel my pain [smilie=2thumbsup.g:

Seriously though this endorsement by Flip will keep Evans a piston. So far Evans is the biggest mistake of this season. I'd rather have Ronald curry oddly enough.

If we do trade with the Hawks, I hope we give away Evans. I don't even care if we get something in return for him, I just want him gone and Delfino get all his minutes.
You feel my pain [smilie=2thumbsup.g:

Seriously though this endorsement by Flip will keep Evans a piston. So far Evans is the biggest mistake of this season. I'd rather have Ronald curry oddly enough.

Meh.. I like Mo, I just hate Flip's wanting to play him over the obviously more talented Delfino.

I don't think Evans has been bad, but it's that Delfino has been so suprisingly good. And Flip has no faith in Delfino at all and all of the faith in the world in Evans. That is what ticks me off.

And we can't trade Evans because we can't rely on Delfino's health. Let's admit, he has been injury prone in the past. And when he has gotten injured, he doesn't like to play through it.

I don't think Evans has been bad, but it's that Delfino has been so suprisingly good. And Flip has no faith in Delfino at all and all of the faith in the world in Evans. That is what ticks me off.

And we can't trade Evans because we can't rely on Delfino's health. Let's admit, he has been injury prone in the past. And when he has gotten injured, he doesn't like to play through it.
Of course no one knows how much pain he was in for sure. either way Evans is Flip's guy. much like Ham was LB's guy.

Even early last year Delfino was complaining about minor injuries and how American players load up on pain relievers before the game so they can play and he'd prefer to recieve physical therapy. Remember? The article was in Spanish and we at first thought he was accusing NBA players of using steroids because we couldn't understand the translation. He just can't stand to play on pain. But many NBA players do every night, it's their job, it's what they get paid for.

Before he came to the States, he had one season where he sat out the whole year because of an ankle injury. So he doesn't have the best tab of keeping healthy.

Dumars won't tell his coach which players to play, but he will trade them away. I'm betting Evans isn't a Piston to start next season...

Just because he has some injury issues doesn't mean Evans deserves more minutes than him. Especially when Delfino is proving himself to be a better player night in and night out.

Just because he has some injury issues doesn't mean Evans deserves more minutes than him. Especially when Delfino is proving himself to be a better player night in and night out.
I didn't say that. I think Delfino deserves all of the minutes. I'm just saying that we can't TRADE Evans becuase we can't rely on Delfino to stay healthy.

That true.

But as long as Evans (and Flip) is here, Delfino won't play more than Evans. Given the fact that Delfino is a better player and has a higher ceiling, he should be playing almost all the available minutes.

How long was Evans with Flip? I thought it was some rather small timeframe...

funny how the nba media considers the evans signing another steal...but you guys hate it..

me? im indifferent...hes more of a presence than ronald dupree

What exactly is wrong with Evans?

He is athletic, strong and can shoot the three. He provides a spark from the bench and best of all is signed to a dirt cheap contract.

Delfino may be better, but we are still winning with Evans getting minutes aren't we?

What exactly is wrong with Evans?

He is athletic, strong and can shoot the three. He provides a spark from the bench and best of all is signed to a dirt cheap contract.

Delfino may be better, but we are still winning with Evans getting minutes aren't we?

Simply put, Delfino is better.

So there is no reason for him to sit on the bench while the starters are out playing 38+ minutes a night.

funny how the nba media considers the evans signing another steal...but you guys hate it..

me? im indifferent...hes more of a presence than ronald dupree
thats an unfair statement. he didnt even get to play besides the preseason and when he did he looked just as good as evans. I think dupree would've been just as helpful.

From my perspective, Evans didn't take any minutes away from Delfino last night.

It was Chauncey Billups, Rip Hamilton and Tay Prince that took minutes away from Delfino last night.

Nothing is happening!

From my perspective, Evans didn't take any minutes away from Delfino last night.

It was Chauncey Billups, Rip Hamilton and Tay Prince that took minutes away from Delfino last night.

Exactly - finally someone said it.

it.

Any minute Evans plays over Delfino is a minute Delfino should have had. Evans only plays well when he is subbed in before Delfino, therefore he is always subbed in before Carlos, and from there Saunders will play "the hot hand". Meaning Delfino will only get minutes when Evans is lacklustre.

Is the tail wagging the dog here??

It's not Evan's fault. It's Flip's fault Delfino isn't getting minutes. He needs to find a way to work him in there more.

Well this thread has quickly morphed into a Evans-DelFino argument I see. I keep hoping for some trade news here. I could care less about either guy. I say let them thumb wrestle before every game, winner gets to take all the minutes.

Flip just called and said he's awarded Evans the winner of the thumb wrestle contest
(which hasn't happened yet)

Well this thread has quickly morphed into a Evans-DelFino argument I see. I keep hoping for some trade news here. I could care less about either guy. I say let them thumb wrestle before every game, winner gets to take all the minutes.
Sounds like you are lost in a harrington wet dream. But nevertheless, Delfino wins the thumb wrestle everytime only to be put behind Evans on the tchnicality that his thumbs were too big.

Well this thread has quickly morphed into a Evans-DelFino argument I see. I keep hoping for some trade news here. I could care less about either guy. I say let them thumb wrestle before every game, winner gets to take all the minutes.
Sounds like you are lost in a harrington wet dream. But nevertheless, Delfino wins the thumb wrestle everytime only to be put behind Evans on the tchnicality that his thumbs were too big.

The only reason DelFino wins the thumb wrestling match is because he's double jointed, that my friend earns him a DQ. Evans wins due to disqualification. Sorry.

In other news, Dumars calls for Roll Shambo. Delfino isn't smart enough to figure this one out.

Maybe the real trade was arroyo for acker and darko for maxiell. [smilie=artist.gif]


Wouldnt surprise me. Joe D seems really high on these draft picls.

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/hawks/stories/0222hawknot.html


•DELK RUMORS: Hawks co-captain Al Harrington isn't the only player on the roster whose name is being bantered about as the trade deadline approaches. Veteran point guard Tony Delk could be in play before Thursday afternoon if a deal can be struck.

The teams most often mentioned include Miami and Cleveland, which are in need of veteran help in the backcourt and an expiring contract, both of which Delk would provide.

The Hawks could also decide to buy out Delk's contract, allowing him to sign with elsewhere for the remainder of the season.

Delk, who declined comment before Tuesday's game, has played in just one game this season. He logged a little over seven minutes in a loss to Sacramento.

Does the bold part sound familiar?

HEre's what happens if we trade for Harrington.

Harrington: 5 minutes
Delfino: 4 minutes
Evans: 18 minutes.

(Billups: 44 minutes)

HEre's what happens if we trade for Harrington.

Harrington: 5 minutes
Delfino: 4 minutes
Evans: 18 minutes.

(Billups: 44 minutes)


You forgot the score: Pistons: 215 Lakers: 7

I just can't get an opinion on Delk. He's got in 1 game all year. I don't know what to expect. If we could get the Tony Delk from a few years ago, I would love that deal. But I have no idea.

And Atlanta might balk on giving up Childress. I don't think clearing his contract is incentive for them. They do like this kid, and I think it would take a first rounder for a team to get him out of there.

It doesn't matter though, we can send Cato and cash to Atlanta for Delk. More players don't need to be added.

HEre's what happens if we trade for Harrington.

Harrington: 5 minutes
Delfino: 4 minutes
Evans: 18 minutes.

(Billups: 44 minutes)
its kinda funny until you get to the bottom. The part that scares me is that this could happen. [smilie=anxious.gif]