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Gecko
02-17-2006, 03:53 PM
I am sure this has already been posted so swat if that's the case.


Q: What do you think of the Darko deal? Speaking from a Pistons fan perspective, I love it. If you look at Darko for what he is (NOTHING), then we're basically getting a (Top 5 protected) draft pick for 2007, which will be one of the deepest drafts in a decade, and clearing a bunch of cap space to re-sign Ben and Chauncey for Carlos Arroyo. Hmm, an erratic, pouting, showboating backup point guard for a first rounder and cap space?-- Tad Dixon, Kalamazoo, Mich.

SG: What did I think? I think you could have had Dwyane Wade, Carmelo Anthony or Chris Bosh three summers ago. Maybe Joe Dumars is an excellent GM, and maybe this current Pistons team was one of the most thoughtfully put-together teams of the last 25 years. But I'm tired of reading how the Darko pick was defensible. There's no way to predict how an under-20 foreign player from a small country will adapt socially, mentally or physically to riding an NBA bench for a couple of years. It's an enormous risk -- like taking a baby on a cross-country flight. You just don't know. So why take that risk in a loaded draft when you don't need to do so?

Here's the crazy thing: People are still defending the pick. For instance, Mitch Albom wrote on Wednesday, "As for those who say the Pistons blew it with Darko -- they could have drafted Carmelo Anthony or Dwyane Wade instead? Well, factually, that's true. But had that happened, these Pistons wouldn't be these Pistons, because somebody else would be gone. And these Pistons, during Darko's stay, have one championship and one near-championship."

No offense to Mitch, but what the hell does that mean? Who would be gone? Why couldn't they have kept everyone and the No. 2 pick? You're telling me the last three Pistons teams wouldn't have been better off with Carmelo as a sixth man, Wade as a third guard or Bosh as the backup big guy ... especially last year's team, that was forced to play six guys in Game 7 of the NBA Finals? Really? You're making that argument with a straight face? Having a better player would have held the team back?

Another Darko defense, this time from our own Chad Ford, who was Darko's biggest advocate in the summer of 2003 and now admits that "hindsight being 20-20, it's impossible to say the Pistons made the right decision when they chose the 18-year-old 7-footer from Serbia." I'm glad he came to that conclusion. But here's the part that got me:

"Darko sat. And stewed. He lived alone, one of his first mistakes. He got homesick. Started listening to the hecklers. Lost his passion for the game. By midseason of his rookie year, he spent more energy living the life of an NBA player off the court than playing the game that an NBA player is paid to play. When he did get into the game, typically only seconds before everyone went home, he looked out of place. 'Awkward' barely captures how lost the big kid looked. He tried to do too much, with too little time. Then, after a while, he just quit trying. He was awful and he knew it. The shame and embarrassment of it all, for a kid as proud as Darko, was too much to bear."

Precisely! Precisely! This is why you don't pass up blue-chip players in a loaded draft to roll the dice with a talented foreigner who could possibly have adjustment issues playing in a new country on a good team! Why not take a sure thing? Especially when you have an immediate chance to become a title contender? That's what never made sense. Plus, Dumars waited a year too late to trade Darko -- if he was moved for bench help last year, the 2005 Pistons probably would have won the title. If he was moved for bench help this summer, the 2006 Pistons probably would have won 70-plus. Instead, he was moved for cap space and a future first-rounder in 2007. In other words, through 2007, this current Pistons team will have had a four-year window in which it's been (A) exceptionally healthy, and (B) one of the best two or three teams in basketball each year, and somehow, it didn't get any help from the No. 2 selection of the most loaded draft of the decade (which happened at the start of that four-year window). I would say that's a complete disaster.

The bottom line: They could have won four or five straight titles with this current nucleus if Dumars didn't pass up three of the top-eight young assets in the league with that pick. As it stands, they're going to struggle to win two. That's why I believe that, other than Bowie-over-MJ, that was the most damaging draft-day decision of the last 20 years. And anyone who says otherwise is crazy.

Gecko
02-17-2006, 03:55 PM
I am starting to wonder if the attention to this Darko trade fiacso and seemingly megative karma coming from it will have a negative effect on this team. I am sure this team is mentally tough enough but you can't help but feel the positive air get sucked out of the Palace the past week.

Glenn
02-17-2006, 04:05 PM
Plus, Dumars waited a year too late to trade Darko -- if he was moved for bench help last year, the 2005 Pistons probably would have won the title. If he was moved for bench help this summer, the 2006 Pistons probably would have won 70-plus. Instead, he was moved for cap space and a future first-rounder in 2007. In other words, through 2007, this current Pistons team will have had a four-year window in which it's been (A) exceptionally healthy, and (B) one of the best two or three teams in basketball each year, and somehow, it didn't get any help from the No. 2 selection of the most loaded draft of the decade (which happened at the start of that four-year window). I would say that's a complete disaster.


There it is.

Even if you take the "drafting of Darko" mistake out of the equation, this situation has been mishandled multiple times since then. This is what Joe has 6 days to try and remedy IMO.

Kilo
02-17-2006, 04:06 PM
Here's the crazy thing: People are still defending the pick. For instance, Mitch Albom wrote on Wednesday, "As for those who say the Pistons blew it with Darko -- they could have drafted Carmelo Anthony or Dwyane Wade instead? Well, factually, that's true. But had that happened, these Pistons wouldn't be these Pistons, because somebody else would be gone. And these Pistons, during Darko's stay, have one championship and one near-championship."

No offense to Mitch, but what the hell does that mean? Who would be gone? Why couldn't they have kept everyone and the No. 2 pick? You're telling me the last three Pistons teams wouldn't have been better off with Carmelo as a sixth man, Wade as a third guard or Bosh as the backup big guy ... especially last year's team, that was forced to play six guys in Game 7 of the NBA Finals? Really? You're making that argument with a straight face? Having a better player would have held the team back?

If we drafted Bosh there is a good possibility that we would have never dealt for Rasheed Wallace. Milicic was years away, Bosh could have showed enough that we would have wanted him playing time in the near future. Remember that 2004 wasn't upposed to be our year, our run was supposed to go from 2005-2008 in Dumars plans. Then again Rasheed might have been too good a deal to pass-up. You know LB hated Memo and was pressuring JD to go get Rasheed Wallace - A Ben, Bosh, Rasheed triad would look pretty damn nice right now. And we could have spend the McDyess MLE on another position.

Glenn
02-17-2006, 04:08 PM
Then again Rasheed might have been too good a deal to pass-up. You know LB hated Memo and was pressuring JD to go get Rasheed Wallace - A Ben, Bosh, Rasheed triad would look pretty damn nice right now. And we could have spend the McDyess MLE on another position.

*Glenn vomits violently and uncontrollably*

Black Dynamite
02-17-2006, 04:09 PM
maybe, who knows. i still say that the Sportsguy and everyone else obsessed over this is playing themselves. theres so many variables between then and now that you dont know what you would of got. lets say rodney white gets drafted by someone else who starts him off the jump. you really dont know. you're taking a risk with any pick. flat out. spin it whatever way you want. denver was ready in a heartbeat to take darko had we not. drafting lottery picks is a high stakes gamble. always will be. from sam bowie to harold minor to possibly darko millicic. Nothing to dwell on especially if you got a the championship team anyways, which is the true definition of how good a job you are doing IMO.

Black Dynamite
02-17-2006, 04:12 PM
If we drafted Bosh there is a good possibility that we would have never dealt for Rasheed Wallace. Milicic was years away, Bosh could have showed enough that we would have wanted him playing time in the near future. .
but whats to say he gets that playing time. odds are he still plays behind okur for atleast a year and maybe even campbell knowing LB..

Glenn
02-17-2006, 04:16 PM
I know it's only an opinion, and they are as valuable as assholes, but IMO Bosh would have done what Darko never did here, make the most of your opportunity and make it impossible for the coach to not play you.

That being said, I'm not as interested in revising history as I am about discussing the need to improve this team, this year.

WTFchris
02-17-2006, 04:23 PM
Kilo is right. Maybe we never would have gotten Sheed. Then we wouldn't have won the title that year (at least I don't think so). Maybe we would have gotten Sheed. Who knows?

We can't go back and say we should have drafted this guy or that. What if we took tiny ears RJ over Rodney White (same year I think)? You could play the guessing game forever.

But you can agrue when Joe should have dealt Darko, and for what.

DrRay11
02-18-2006, 12:19 AM
You know what, fellas, we're 41-9. I am happy with the pick--we won a championship the next year. Who knows what would have happened otherwise? I know exactly what Mitch Albom was saying with other guys not being here (read: Sheed, Dice?). I'm looking at the now.

Hindsight is always 20/20.

FP22
02-18-2006, 01:13 AM
This guy is saying this like teams don't pass up all-stars for non-NBA players every year. Look at 96 for example....

6. Antoine Walker Kentucky Boston
7. Lorenzen Wright Memphis LA Clippers
8. Kerry Kittles Villanova New Jersey
9. Samaki Walker Louisville Dallas
10. Erick Dampier Mississippi State Indiana
11. Todd Fuller North Carolina State Golden State
12. Vitaly Potapenko Wright State Cleveland
13. Kobe Bryant Lower Merion (PA) HS Charlotte
14. Predrag Stojakovic PAOK Greece Sacramento
15. Steve Nash Santa Clara Phoenix
16. Tony Delk Kentucky Charlotte
17. Jermaine O'Neal Eau Claire (SC) HS Portland

Yes, Todd Fuller, Vitaly Ptapenko, Kerry Kittles, etc were chosen over Kobe Bryant, Steve "MVP" Nash, and Jermaine O'Neal. This crap happens every year. Not everyone works out how they're projected. It's a CRAPSHOOT!!! I guarantee you that you can make an all-star team of players that teams drafted scrubs over for each and every team in the league.

Cross
02-18-2006, 04:54 AM
Gilbert Arenas and Michal Redd were taken in the 2nd round.

As for the draft, fuck it. Like everyone here has said, we wouldnt have won the hcampionship. If we had Wade or Melo, Tay or Rip would be gone. If we had drafted Bosh, Sheed would never be here.


That being said, I'm not as interested in revising history as I am about discussing the need to improve this team, this year.
[smilie=applause.gi:

A lineup of Bosh and Ben... [smilie=404.gif]

luniz
02-18-2006, 10:52 AM
Sometimes in life, you have to take a gamble...the fact that the Pistons could gamble on Darko and still accomplish their goals proves it was a good time/place to take a chance...you can't blame Dumars that it didn't work out. I hope that Orlando pick is a good one though.

flipscrackers
02-18-2006, 02:03 PM
That portion of the article was pretty much another opportunity for Sports Guy to show his longstanding dislike of the Pistons. Although his articles are usually pretty funny, they've tended to center on his theories/rules or his Boston homerism.

Matt
02-18-2006, 04:20 PM
Sometimes in life, you have to take a gamble...the fact that the Pistons could gamble on Darko and still accomplish their goals proves it was a good time/place to take a chance...you can't blame Dumars that it didn't work out. I hope that Orlando pick is a good one though.

that could go a looooong way in forgive JoeD for this entire fiasco.....

and welcome to WTFD, luniz [smilie=2thumbsup.g:

Kilo
02-18-2006, 04:48 PM
Orlando will be a fringe play-off team next year. Top Three protection vs Top Five protection is really irrelivant. Either they win the lottery and we don't get their pick or we're looking to pick between 8th and 15th. I know 2007 mock-ups are 99% useless, but there does look to be a lot of size eligible to come out in 2007.

Some people say Oden and the other highschoolers will stay two years in College ball, but I can't believe that would be the case if teams promised to pick them in the lottery. I do worry about the highschoolers struggling in the first year and thus deciding to stay another year. I mean it wouldn't bethe first time a hot shot basketball player struggled in College ball. How much playing time would the freshmen expect to get?? I don't think the Pistons would draft one-year college players, they'll look for the juniors, hopwever if the forded freshmen do not come out, we'll be looking at a worse selection when the we're due to pick.

I still wouldn't consider it out of the realm of possibility that we deal this pick come next season. Then again, we could also package this pick and our late first rounder to move up 2-3 spots if we think it is necessary as well.

Gecko
05-30-2006, 07:23 AM
Plus, Dumars waited a year too late to trade Darko -- if he was moved for bench help last year, the 2005 Pistons probably would have won the title. If he was moved for bench help this summer, the 2006 Pistons probably would have won 70-plus. Instead, he was moved for cap space and a future first-rounder in 2007. In other words, through 2007, this current Pistons team will have had a four-year window in which it's been (A) exceptionally healthy, and (B) one of the best two or three teams in basketball each year, and somehow, it didn't get any help from the No. 2 selection of the most loaded draft of the decade (which happened at the start of that four-year window). I would say that's a complete disaster.


There it is.

Even if you take the "drafting of Darko" mistake out of the equation, this situation has been mishandled multiple times since then. This is what Joe has 6 days to try and remedy IMO.


I feel there were 2 major events that happened this year that changed the attitude or balance of chemistry in the team. Trading Arroyo and Darko was #1 and Ben Wallace refusing to go back into the game was #2.

I doubt Darko and Arroyo would of changed anything but maybe the players felt different.

Pharaoh
05-30-2006, 09:57 AM
Who gives a fuck about the Darko trade now?

And whoever that dumb fuck was talking about having Melo or Wade needs to go back and look at our PF/C rotation prior to the 2003 Draft.

Ben, Okur, Zelly and Cliff = SHIT! Corliss playing PF doesn't make up for the lack of decent ballers there either.

Not drafting Bosh is the mistake? Cool - then follow that thought through. Having Bosh and Okur and Ben = no Sheed trade and us renouncing all our expirings to retain Okur.

That means no title and no Finals. That could also mean no Dice.

So fuck that stupid shit.

And IMO you can't blame that trade and Ben not entering a game for the complete and utter fucking destruction of this team.

No pride, no energy and no fucking heart all comes back to the players.

Blame Flip? Yeah, he's not an awesome playoff coach (fucking terrible, but it's late and I don't wanna destroy my keyboard)...

But if this team needs a fucking awesome coach then we've over-rated these fucks for years.

Remember when the players said LB wasn't that important? Well, don't look now but they're all full of shit. They can't motivate themselves, they can't go all out and they don't fucking care.

I'm reading posts claiming our D doesn't exist because Flip turned us into a jump shooting team. Was I the only one who watched G7 v Cleveland?

These fuckers are pointing fingers at each other, at the Coach and at the refs in an effort to avoid the obvious:

They got lazy, under-estimated their opponents and are now getting their fucking heads handed to them by Miami.

At least we made the ECF again though. We're very fucking lucky Cleveland didn't end our season.

realistic
05-30-2006, 09:34 PM
Terrible article. The guy didn't even answer the main question: What do you think of the Darko to Orlando trade? He talks about how drafting Darko was dumb, but Darko's suckage was already a sunk cost, with no bearing on the question being asked.

A five year old could do better. Sportsguy, What do you think about Richie trading his breathmint to Ryan for a Snickers--how did Richie do?

Sportsguy: I think Breathmints suck!