Has Chauncey lost his momentum? Is Nash re-emerging? How can you overlook what Brand has done? Kobe drops 81?

Keep in mind, this is not who you want to win, this is who you think would win if the season ended today.






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Nash has been my pick all year. Brand deserves mention though too. Clips are winning without Maggs. Kobe is just a stat whore. If they were a top team, I might think differently.

I never thought Billups was MVP, but he deserves to be in the discussion. Ben could just as easily be MVP, which is why I couldn't choose Billups.

Kobe. He's a one man team, so it isn't even close.

I'm going with Nash right now as well.

Take a look at what he did last night.

Dude looks like he wants the MVP and he's going out and taking it.

Lots of good candidates though.

Yeah, the whole Billups for MVP thing was tied to the Pistons being a "historic team". Now that they are just the best in the league, no one has to come up with a "why are they so much better than last year" explination.

Right now, I'd expect Kobe to get it.

kobe's a one man team on a team slowly falling out of the playoffs. MVP is a lil extreme

kobe's a one man team on a team slowly falling out of the playoffs. MVP is a lil extreme

81 points gets respect though, regardless of the team's record.

kobe's a one man team on a team slowly falling out of the playoffs. MVP is a lil extreme

81 points gets respect though, regardless of the team's record.
its one game. otherwise the season isnt looking so hot anymore. it seems that all those shots he's chucking is tiring his ass. either way, one game respect as an mvp argument doesnt cut it. writers maybe be half brains, but even they get that. if the lakers dont get higher than a 7th seed he wont win shit.

And at the moment they are in serious danger of falling out of the 8th spot.

Nash. No team with 4 all-stars deserves the MVP as well.

Unfortunately I think it will be Kobe. The thing that I don't like is that there are no set rules for how the MVP is picked. Is it best player on the best team? The player that has had the best season? The player that is most important to his team? The player that is most important to his team that is good? That gets switched every year. Last year Nash won it because he was the guy that made an average team great. Iverson won it a couple of years ago because he had an amazing season. Kobe will win it this year based on his scoring average alone. I don't agree with it, but it will happen.

Unfortunately I think it will be Kobe. The thing that I don't like is that there are no set rules for how the MVP is picked. Is it best player on the best team? The player that has had the best season? The player that is most important to his team? The player that is most important to his team that is good? That gets switched every year. Last year Nash won it because he was the guy that made an average team great. Iverson won it a couple of years ago because he had an amazing season. Kobe will win it this year based on his scoring average alone. I don't agree with it, but it will happen.
winning is factored in too though. you gotta atleast make the playoffs to sdave face IMO these days. i mean how many times in the past 25 years has a guy whose team didnt even make the playoffs won mvp?

If Billups was white, he'd be made the MVP this year.


(yes I AM starting shit.)

If Billups was white he'd still be in Boston.

i truely have to say lebron based on his stats he has been great with getting over 30 points 7 boards and 6 assits he is producing a lot and i think it is between him and nash who is avergaing like 11.0 assits per game

If Billups was white he'd still be in Boston.

If billups was white he would've been voted in the all-star game already too.

kobe's a one man team on a team slowly falling out of the playoffs. MVP is a lil extreme

81 points gets respect though, regardless of the team's record.
its one game. otherwise the season isnt looking so hot anymore. it seems that all those shots he's chucking is tiring his ass. either way, one game respect as an mvp argument doesnt cut it. writers maybe be half brains, but even they get that. if the lakers dont get higher than a 7th seed he wont win shit.

And at the moment they are in serious danger of falling out of the 8th spot.

It's beyond one game though, that's the best accomplishment done by any player so far and he's had lots of other games too. If you were to get some stat of the top ten games played by one player this year Kobe would have more then half of them.

His team might not be doing jack shit, but he's playing like a legend and I know the media sees that.

kobe's a one man team on a team slowly falling out of the playoffs. MVP is a lil extreme

81 points gets respect though, regardless of the team's record.
its one game. otherwise the season isnt looking so hot anymore. it seems that all those shots he's chucking is tiring his ass. either way, one game respect as an mvp argument doesnt cut it. writers maybe be half brains, but even they get that. if the lakers dont get higher than a 7th seed he wont win shit.

And at the moment they are in serious danger of falling out of the 8th spot.

It's beyond one game though, that's the best accomplishment done by any player so far and he's had lots of other games too. If you were to get some stat of the top ten games played by one player this year Kobe would have more then half of them.

His team might not be doing jack shit, but he's playing like a legend and I know the media sees that.
the legend of what? the guy who chucked himself to death? spin it anyway you want. one game aint the whole season and neither one span of a few games(as he has gone up and down as of late).

if i remember correctly the media knows him as a ballhogger at times and a "great scorer" , not legend. unless you are only reading laker newspapers.

If Billups was white he'd still be in Boston.

LMAO!

I had to switch it up and vote for Dirk. The Mavs have been pretty serious and he's leading them. He's become a lot more vocal, he's hitting the big shots he used to miss or pass on and he's step his help D up big time and the defensive stats improvements for the Mavs is well documented. If Dirk isn't in consideration than Avery Johnson needs to be the coach of the year, but someone needs to get credit from that team, especially if they keep this pace up.

If Billups was white, he'd be made the MVP this year.
If Billups was white he'd still be in Boston.

If billups was white he would've been voted in the all-star game already too.


All true.

If Billups was white he'd still be in Boston.

LMAO!

I had to switch it up and vote for Dirk. The Mavs have been pretty serious and he's leading them. He's become a lot more vocal, he's hitting the big shots he used to miss or pass on and he's step his help D up big time and the defensive stats improvements for the Mavs is well documented. If Dirk isn't in consideration than Avery Johnson needs to be the coach of the year, but someone needs to get credit from that team, especially if they keep this pace up.
thats some good points. it is more than scoring and i applaud Dirk for trying to improve his all around game and cut back on the scoring for more wins. i might go nash though. the level of improvement he brings to the suns outweighs anyone in the league. phoenix w/o him is fighting with the lakers for playoff position IMO.

It's beyond one game though, that's the best accomplishment done by any player so far and he's had lots of other games too. If you were to get some stat of the top ten games played by one player this year Kobe would have more then half of them.

His team might not be doing jack shit, but he's playing like a legend and I know the media sees that.

If I'm going strictly on numbers, I think Lebron is doing better than Kobe is. I think if you ignore team success, Lebron is ahead of Kobe. If you factor team success, you have to vote for Nash or Dirk IMO.

Nash. No team with 4 all-stars deserves the MVP as well.

Nash as well.

Nash has his team over .500 still, despite losing some of their starters from last year (specially Amare).

Chauncey? Take away any other of the starting lineup and we'll be blah. It ain't fair to them.

Kobe? He's not winning.

[quote=FP22]
Kobe? He's not winning.
yep, and yet he's a front runner? sorry dont see it.

If you want to go by numbers and winning it has to go to Shawn Marion. His stats are in-fucking-credible, and he plays BOTH sides of the ball. Nash is valuable to that team, but not nearly as much.

its looking like nash is getting the hype again, which pisses me off like no other.

hes not an mvp. he wasnt last year, he definitly isnt his year.

his team is on pace for a few more wins than the cavs, but he has much better team mates (regardless of him making them better) and a much better coach.

lebron or kobe should get it. but the lakers are ~500, so i think its lebron.

Why would anyone bash Nash's play?

Over the past month, he is shooting 54.2% from the floor , point guards don't do that, especially when they are putting up 20+ ppg, 10+ assts per game and sitting out a lot of 4th quarters while his team proceeds to blow other teams out.

The fact that they are 35-17 and in first place without Amare is just incredible. Don't get me wrong, Marion is great too, but Nash has a lot to do with that as well, and it's not really vice versa.

If you saw Marion without Nash in the Olympics, you'd see how much Nash helps him, IMO.

If you saw Marion without Nash in the Olympics, you'd see how much Nash helps him, IMO.
man if you see the suns not a moment before nash got there. they sucked with amare and marion. Its obvious to anyone whose seen the before and after than Nash is what makes them tick.

If you saw Marion without Nash in the Olympics, you'd see how much Nash helps him, IMO.
man if you see the suns not a moment before nash got there. they sucked with amare and marion. Its obvious to anyone whose seen the before and after than Nash is what makes them tick.

and they had more talent around Amare and Marion too. They had JJ there, McDyess, Penny (when he was still playing).

Exit Maubury, enter Nash...

They go from 6th place in their division to 1st, 11th in shooting to 1st, and actually win in the playoffs.

BOOOOOOOOOOO B-DIDDY BOOOOOOOOOOOO

Nash's D is the worst in the league besides Moochie Norris. Makes Arroyo look like a vice grip. Awful. I have nothing but stellar things to say about his shooting and offense has a whole, but for the same reason Ben Wallace is not the MVP, neither is Nash.

Glenn, besides Duncan who couldn't stay on the floor Marion was our best player in the olympics. I saw several flattering articles on his play and how he didn't need the ball (or Nash to get it to him) to be effective on a team with few players like that. Bad take.

And to bash Marion for 04 is ass. LOL @ "they had Dyess, JJ, and Amare". One was broke all season and didn't get his ups back until the folowing year, one hadn't come close to breaking out, and one was in his second year out of highschool missing 30 games. Worse take.

And to bash Marion for 04 is ass. LOL @ "they had Dyess, JJ, and Amare". One was broke all season and didn't get his ups back until the folowing year, one hadn't come close to breaking out, and one was in his second year out of highschool missing 30 games. Worse take.
you are making alot of excuses for marion yet leaving none for nash. bias as hell.

and for the record no one said marion or stoudemire suck. but the team did. marion isnt gonna help your team as a isolation scorer or coming off picks in set plays. he has to score in transition and with the help of a good floor general. same for amare. They are great players. but without nash they arent a great team. Plain and simple.

And to bash Marion for 04 is ass. LOL @ "they had Dyess, JJ, and Amare". One was broke all season and didn't get his ups back until the folowing year, one hadn't come close to breaking out, and one was in his second year out of highschool missing 30 games. Worse take.
you are making alot of excuses for marion yet leaving none for nash. bias as hell.

and for the record no one said marion or stoudemire suck. but the team did. marion isnt gonna help your team as a isolation scorer or coming off picks in set plays. he has to score in transition and with the help of a good floor general. same for amare. They are great players. but without nash they arent a great team. Plain and simple.

bias as hell? Excuses for Marion? Where? I made no excuses for his play, I don't need to. Without Marion the Suns aren't a great team. Plain and simple. In your point Shaq isn't an MVP because he has to score in the post with the help of a floor general, same for Duncan.

And to bash Marion for 04 is ass. LOL @ "they had Dyess, JJ, and Amare". One was broke all season and didn't get his ups back until the folowing year, one hadn't come close to breaking out, and one was in his second year out of highschool missing 30 games. Worse take.
you are making alot of excuses for marion yet leaving none for nash. bias as hell.

and for the record no one said marion or stoudemire suck. but the team did. marion isnt gonna help your team as a isolation scorer or coming off picks in set plays. he has to score in transition and with the help of a good floor general. same for amare. They are great players. but without nash they arent a great team. Plain and simple.

bias as hell? Excuses for Marion? Where? I made no excuses for his play, I don't need to. Without Marion the Suns aren't a great team. Plain and simple. In your point Shaq isn't an MVP because he has to score in the post with the help of a floor general, same for Duncan.
in your point you are comparing marion to shaq and duncan. next you'll figre him to be on kg's level [smilie=antlers.gif] ...

you were definately making excuses for the before nash team with marion on it sucking. w/o marion they are still a great team. you knock nash's defense, but since when was the suns the greatest defensive team anyways? marion aint saving them on that end either. And maybe your memory is fuzzy on how easily we pissed on a Nashless suns team last year with marion looking like a lost orphan on the court and stoudemire being their only bright spot in that game. then with nash in the lineup they gave us all we could handle and then some. marion is a great player, but if you took him out and brought back stoudemire they'd be better than they our with him in and stoudemire out.

And to bash Marion for 04 is ass. LOL @ "they had Dyess, JJ, and Amare". One was broke all season and didn't get his ups back until the folowing year, one hadn't come close to breaking out, and one was in his second year out of highschool missing 30 games. Worse take.
you are making alot of excuses for marion yet leaving none for nash. bias as hell.

and for the record no one said marion or stoudemire suck. but the team did. marion isnt gonna help your team as a isolation scorer or coming off picks in set plays. he has to score in transition and with the help of a good floor general. same for amare. They are great players. but without nash they arent a great team. Plain and simple.



bias as hell? Excuses for Marion? Where? I made no excuses for his play, I don't need to. Without Marion the Suns aren't a great team. Plain and simple. In your point Shaq isn't an MVP because he has to score in the post with the help of a floor general, same for Duncan.
in your point you are comparing marion to shaq and duncan. next you'll figre him to be on kg's level [smilie=antlers.gif] ...

you were definately making excuses for the before nash team with marion on it sucking. w/o marion they are still a great team. you knock nash's defense, but since when was the suns the greatest defensive team anyways? marion aint saving them on that end either. And maybe your memory is fuzzy on how easily we pissed on a Nashless suns team last year with marion looking like a lost orphan on the court and stoudemire being their only bright spot in that game. then with nash in the lineup they gave us all we could handle and then some. marion is a great player, but if you took him out and brought back stoudemire they'd be better than they our with him in and stoudemire out.

Marions stats are very similiar to KGs this year. I will compare them, favorably. In fact no player has been statistically better than Marion, while he does all the quiet shit.


The suns have been a very good defensive team this year. All led by Marion. Pay attention to whats going on.

If you took out Nash and brought in Chaucny Billups they would still be good. Amare is a superstar, they would be good yes. Not better.

And to bash Marion for 04 is ass. LOL @ "they had Dyess, JJ, and Amare". One was broke all season and didn't get his ups back until the folowing year, one hadn't come close to breaking out, and one was in his second year out of highschool missing 30 games. Worse take.
you are making alot of excuses for marion yet leaving none for nash. bias as hell.

and for the record no one said marion or stoudemire suck. but the team did. marion isnt gonna help your team as a isolation scorer or coming off picks in set plays. he has to score in transition and with the help of a good floor general. same for amare. They are great players. but without nash they arent a great team. Plain and simple.



bias as hell? Excuses for Marion? Where? I made no excuses for his play, I don't need to. Without Marion the Suns aren't a great team. Plain and simple. In your point Shaq isn't an MVP because he has to score in the post with the help of a floor general, same for Duncan.
in your point you are comparing marion to shaq and duncan. next you'll figre him to be on kg's level [smilie=antlers.gif] ...

you were definately making excuses for the before nash team with marion on it sucking. w/o marion they are still a great team. you knock nash's defense, but since when was the suns the greatest defensive team anyways? marion aint saving them on that end either. And maybe your memory is fuzzy on how easily we pissed on a Nashless suns team last year with marion looking like a lost orphan on the court and stoudemire being their only bright spot in that game. then with nash in the lineup they gave us all we could handle and then some. marion is a great player, but if you took him out and brought back stoudemire they'd be better than they our with him in and stoudemire out.

Marions stats are very similiar to KGs this year. I will compare them, favorably. In fact no player has been statistically better than Marion, while he does all the quiet shit.


The suns have been a very good defensive team this year. All led by Marion. Pay attention to whats going on.

If you took out Nash and brought in Chaucny Billups they would still be good. Amare is a superstar, they would be good yes. Not better.
i paid plenty of attention to the suns. not the reporters who say they are a good defensive team this year. actually they are still pretty inconsistent and are not great on defense.

And no they would not be as good with Billups. In fact with Billups they would have to put more responsibility on Marion and stoudemire to make plays on their own. Which is NOT their strong suit.

I agree, since Nash came in Amare has been a superstar along with marion as a sidekick. But even "superstar" amare recognizes that Nash is the reason they are so good. Now if he's on the court with Nash and lobbied for Nash to come to Phoenix. Then maybe Nash is the guy that makes them tick now. I'm sorry but amare even knows that they dont find sucess w/o nash.

If you asked Marion i'm sure he'd say the same. its a shame that you are trying to discredit what nash has been for the suns as if they had a shot of being this good w/o his arrival. And honestly i keep saying amare and and marion are great players to make sure you dont play the "you said they suck" card. Because im definately not saying that. they are great athletic players that are immensely useful with the right guy running the offense.

W/o the right guy running the offense they are still very good. but that team doesnt pose a threat to anyone in the west.

is nash good and does he make his teammates better? yes.

is he responsible for helping the suns get better? yes.

were stoudamire and johnson going to improve without nash? yes.

are the dallas mavericks better off without nash? yes.

does nash get a disproportianate amount of credit for the suns' success? yes.

is it a complete joke that nash got the mvp one year, and is bound to become one of the few players ever in the nba to be a back to back mvp this year? yes.

do i have no idea why i just wrote an entire post in that form? yes.

is it possible that i'll continue to do that in the future? yes

was my best point that the mavs got better when nash left the best case for why nash isnt mvp? yes.

(ps. in 24, i'll be done with the longest paper in my life, and wont post 30 times a day for a while).

And to bash Marion for 04 is ass. LOL @ "they had Dyess, JJ, and Amare". One was broke all season and didn't get his ups back until the folowing year, one hadn't come close to breaking out, and one was in his second year out of highschool missing 30 games. Worse take.
you are making alot of excuses for marion yet leaving none for nash. bias as hell.

and for the record no one said marion or stoudemire suck. but the team did. marion isnt gonna help your team as a isolation scorer or coming off picks in set plays. he has to score in transition and with the help of a good floor general. same for amare. They are great players. but without nash they arent a great team. Plain and simple.



bias as hell? Excuses for Marion? Where? I made no excuses for his play, I don't need to. Without Marion the Suns aren't a great team. Plain and simple. In your point Shaq isn't an MVP because he has to score in the post with the help of a floor general, same for Duncan.
in your point you are comparing marion to shaq and duncan. next you'll figre him to be on kg's level [smilie=antlers.gif] ...

you were definately making excuses for the before nash team with marion on it sucking. w/o marion they are still a great team. you knock nash's defense, but since when was the suns the greatest defensive team anyways? marion aint saving them on that end either. And maybe your memory is fuzzy on how easily we pissed on a Nashless suns team last year with marion looking like a lost orphan on the court and stoudemire being their only bright spot in that game. then with nash in the lineup they gave us all we could handle and then some. marion is a great player, but if you took him out and brought back stoudemire they'd be better than they our with him in and stoudemire out.

Marions stats are very similiar to KGs this year. I will compare them, favorably. In fact no player has been statistically better than Marion, while he does all the quiet shit.


The suns have been a very good defensive team this year. All led by Marion. Pay attention to whats going on.

If you took out Nash and brought in Chaucny Billups they would still be good. Amare is a superstar, they would be good yes. Not better.
i paid plenty of attention to the suns. not the reporters who say they are a good defensive team this year. actually they are still pretty inconsistent and are not great on defense.

And no they would not be as good with Billups. In fact with Billups they would have to put more responsibility on Marion and stoudemire to make plays on their own. Which is NOT their strong suit.

I agree, since Nash came in Amare has been a superstar along with marion as a sidekick. But even "superstar" amare recognizes that Nash is the reason they are so good. Now if he's on the court with Nash and lobbied for Nash to come to Phoenix. Then maybe Nash is the guy that makes them tick now. I'm sorry but amare even knows that they dont find sucess w/o nash.

If you asked Marion i'm sure he'd say the same. its a shame that you are trying to discredit what nash has been for the suns as if they had a shot of being this good w/o his arrival. And honestly i keep saying amare and and marion are great players to make sure you dont play the "you said they suck" card. Because im definately not saying that. they are great athletic players that are immensely useful with the right guy running the offense.

W/o the right guy running the offense they are still very good. but that team doesnt pose a threat to anyone in the west.

You're a dope if you don't think PHO is playing good D. Watch basketball. They are 10th in the league in FG% despite playing up-tempo offense, being in the more offensive oriented conference, and having the worst defensive starter in the league on their team.

Without Marion the Suns post no threat in the west, the same way they don't post a threat now without Amare. Its a shame you have given Nash all the credit when he's the 3rd best player on that team.

You're a dope if you don't think PHO is playing good D~meanining if you dont think like me.
the all knowing basketball God Hermy has spoken and he's getting chippy about someone questioning his opinionated facts of life in his hermy world. [smilie=applause.gi:

Ok, so by your take even marbury should've been able to atleast get them to a respectable level? Since Nash is irrelevent to their development. [smilie=artist.gif]

yet it did not happen.

so here we go again
[smilie=argue.gif]

you have a long list of excuses for this, which really didnt blanket them like you feel it did. you even claim that their breaking out and nash's arrival were sheer coincidence. Of course this makes more sense than the obvious that they might have went hand in hand, right? [smilie=annoyed.gif] Of course you are entitled to that, but you seem to act as if that line of reasoning is absolute.

So lets break this down again, they were 2-5 last year w/o nash, 29-53 the year before, and with all that marion has done; his numbers are pretty much along the same lines and slightly higher in scoring with no Stoudemire. so if his numbers havent changed then why are they winning now?

Maybe its that 19 points and 11 assists they are getting from Nash or the 15 and 11 he gave them last year. Before nash got here Marion was doing basically the same numbers and they were dirt shit bad. It was Amare that improved and gets a chunk of his points off passes and dunks.

Now with all this going on in the past 3-5 years, where do you get Marion for MVP from?

You're a dope if you don't think PHO is playing good D~meanining if you dont think like me.
the all knowing basketball God Hermy has spoken and he's getting chippy about someone questioning his opinionated facts of life in his hermy world. [smilie=applause.gi:

Ok, so by your take even marbury should've been able to atleast get them to a respectable level? Since Nash is irrelevent to their development. [smilie=artist.gif]

yet it did not happen.

so here we go again
[smilie=argue.gif]

you have a long list of excuses for this, which really didnt blanket them like you feel it did. you even claim that their breaking out and nash's arrival were sheer coincidence. Of course this makes more sense than the obvious that they might have went hand in hand, right? [smilie=annoyed.gif] Of course you are entitled to that, but you seem to act as if that line of reasoning is absolute.

So lets break this down again, they were 2-5 last year w/o nash, 29-53 the year before, and with all that marion has done; his numbers are pretty much along the same lines and slightly higher in scoring with no Stoudemire. so if his numbers havent changed then why are they winning now?

Maybe its that 19 points and 11 assists they are getting from Nash or the 15 and 11 he gave them last year. Before nash got here Marion was doing basically the same numbers and they were dirt shit bad. It was Amare that improved and gets a chunk of his points off passes and dunks.

Now with all this going on in the past 3-5 years, where do you get Marion for MVP from?

I didn't say any of that, you've yet to respond to anything I did say about wy Nash is not the MVP, or why Marion is. Its like I'm speaking to a deaf man. Why do you have to make up lies? I said "Nash has no effect on this team"? How old are you? I never said or even indicated that, its evident that he has an effect. God, Steve G would be an improvement over Marbs, this is booked throughout the years. Similiarly Amare has an effect, and thus their record at the break is considerably worse than year. Marion has the most on that team, and his numbers BTW are NOT along the same lines, they have steped up quite a bit.
KG is giving the same numbers he was giving they year they were the best team in the league, yet they are "dirt-shit" bad. Would you like to revoke his MVP?
I'm tired of answering your questions in complete every time only to have you come back with the same stuff I already refuted. Answer my statements. How do you give the mvp to a guy who is not just bad but the worst at defense in this league? Why not Duncan or Marion or Chauncey or Kobe(not in specific, but that style), players who help their team at all times? Would you have given the MVP to Cassell a couple years back when Minny skyrocketed in wins upon his arrival? I'm really frustrate with the way you've carried on here Gutz, very immature. You took the time to quote what I said about the improvement in team D, but never responded to it. I have no "long list" of excuses, I have no excuses, similair to how I have no excuses for how KG won MVPs before and now he's losing a lot of games. I'm just not focusing solely on 2003 to decide this years MVP race. You posted Nashs stats, they are vastly ecliped by Marions, not even remotely close. If you think he's MVP cause its a good story, or only guys who get added to teams can win then fine, but Marion is more valuable to that team than Nash this year.

You're a dope if you don't think PHO is playing good D~meanining if you dont think like me.
the all knowing basketball God Hermy has spoken and he's getting chippy about someone questioning his opinionated facts of life in his hermy world. [smilie=applause.gi:

Ok, so by your take even marbury should've been able to atleast get them to a respectable level? Since Nash is irrelevent to their development. [smilie=artist.gif]

yet it did not happen.

so here we go again
[smilie=argue.gif]

you have a long list of excuses for this, which really didnt blanket them like you feel it did. you even claim that their breaking out and nash's arrival were sheer coincidence. Of course this makes more sense than the obvious that they might have went hand in hand, right? [smilie=annoyed.gif] Of course you are entitled to that, but you seem to act as if that line of reasoning is absolute.

So lets break this down again, they were 2-5 last year w/o nash, 29-53 the year before, and with all that marion has done; his numbers are pretty much along the same lines and slightly higher in scoring with no Stoudemire. so if his numbers havent changed then why are they winning now?

Maybe its that 19 points and 11 assists they are getting from Nash or the 15 and 11 he gave them last year. Before nash got here Marion was doing basically the same numbers and they were dirt shit bad. It was Amare that improved and gets a chunk of his points off passes and dunks.

Now with all this going on in the past 3-5 years, where do you get Marion for MVP from?

I didn't say any of that, you've yet to respond to anything I did say about wy Nash is not the MVP, or why Marion is. Its like I'm speaking to a deaf man. Why do you have to make up lies? I said "Nash has no effect on this team"? How old are you? I never said or even indicated that, its evident that he has an effect. God, Steve G would be an improvement over Marbs, this is booked throughout the years. Similiarly Amare has an effect, and thus their record at the break is considerably worse than year. Marion has the most on that team, and his numbers BTW are NOT along the same lines, they have steped up quite a bit.
KG is giving the same numbers he was giving they year they were the best team in the league, yet they are "dirt-shit" bad. Would you like to revoke his MVP?
I'm tired of answering your questions in complete every time only to have you come back with the same stuff I already refuted. Answer my statements. How do you give the mvp to a guy who is not just bad but the worst at defense in this league? Why not Duncan or Marion or Chauncey or Kobe(not in specific, but that style), players who help their team at all times? Would you have given the MVP to Cassell a couple years back when Minny skyrocketed in wins upon his arrival? I'm really frustrate with the way you've carried on here Gutz, very immature. You took the time to quote what I said about the improvement in team D, but never responded to it. I have no "long list" of excuses, I have no excuses, similair to how I have no excuses for how KG won MVPs before and now he's losing a lot of games. I'm just not focusing solely on 2003 to decide this years MVP race. You posted Nashs stats, they are vastly ecliped by Marions, not even remotely close. If you think he's MVP cause its a good story, or only guys who get added to teams can win then fine, but Marion is more valuable to that team than Nash this year.
are you trying to talk yourself up? Seriously you are bs'n your way through most of this post. You should follow your own advice. Once again if you are fustrated enough to throw theories like "you're a dope if you dont think Phoenix defense is as good as i do", then play the "you're childish" card, then thats on you. As shitty as you have been acting about this trivial basketball dispute, i've stuck to the subject.

I answer your statements. you just don't pay attention. But we'll spin this cycle one more time for the fun of it.


How do you give the mvp to a guy who is not just bad but the worst at defense in this league?
Because he's on a team who isnt all that great defensively. I said this before. you disputed that. i told you that i've seen them in several games and that its not as good as you'd might think. You didnt agree with it. to each his own. But for the record im not saying they suck this year on defense. in fact they have improved. its closer to average than it was last year and with the way their offense is set up it only has to be about thast much.

With that said they are an offenive orient team that wins with their offensive pressure first foremost. he's the cog of that and its that offensive pressure that is the basis upon which they are built. Have they tried this style before? yes, and they been about that style for awhile there. Did it work before Nash got there? no. He's the key IMO. you dont like my take on that? fine, come up with a really decent reply that doesnt involve calling me a dope for disagreeing with you [smilie=antlers.gif]


Why not Duncan or Marion or Chauncey or Kobe(not in specific, but that style), players who help their team at all times?
once again Marion unlike the others couldnt lead his team to wins. Honestly every other guy you named can score on their own with no set up help. i dont apply that to Marion. But with marion off that "type" player list, i think the other 3 are making solid cases for MVP. But Nash helps his team all the time too and is the front runner in my mind with lebron possibly second, so maybe you should clarify what exactly it is that you're asking. [smilie=amish.gif]


Would you have given the MVP to Cassell a couple years back when Minny skyrocketed in wins upon his arrival?
No, they were a playoff caliber team before hand and he was a great piece of experirced help they needed to get further(see the Sheed scenario). The change really isnt that drastic and he wasnt the only significant help they added(see sprewell scenario). I dont get where you get that comparisom from. Hopefully you have a better scenario than that. [smilie=baby.gif]


You took the time to quote what I said about the improvement in team D, but never responded to it.
yes i did, you were too busy stroking your internet basketball ego to catch it maybe? [smilie=anxious.gif] ...but scroll up to my opening and receive your answer. [smilie=antlers.gif]


I have no "long list" of excuses, I have no excuses, similair to how I have no excuses for how KG won MVPs before and now he's losing a lot of games.
i was being dramatic in the long list. but this is phrase below is an excuse in my opinion(esp4ecially the last two "excuses"). Also, no one bashed Marion so once again follow your own advice on assuming something was said that wasn't.

And to bash Marion for 04 is ass. LOL @ "they had Dyess, JJ, and Amare". One was broke all season and didn't get his ups back until the folowing year, [/b]one hadn't come close to breaking out, and one was in his second year out of highschool missing 30 games.[b]


I'm just not focusing solely on 2003 to decide this years MVP race.
Neither am I. Nor did i elude to such. Your advice might help you more than me it seems.


You posted Nashs stats, they are vastly ecliped by Marions, not even remotely close. If you think he's MVP cause its a good story, or only guys who get added to teams can win then fine, but Marion is more valuable to that team than Nash this year.
Yep and i explained something else you obviously didnt read

So lets break this down again, they were 2-5 last year w/o nash, 29-53 the year before, and with all that marion has done; his numbers are pretty much along the same lines and slightly higher in scoring with no Stoudemire. so if his numbers havent changed then why are they winning now?
way to not answer my question. i guess you dont read your own advice.

Also i never said it was a good story. actually i think Nash is a silly looking bitch with the long hair should be banned from post game interviews. but i dont factor that in. And i dont give props just to the players i like. Another bad assumption on your part.

Now i hope i was able to clear that up for you. If i missed a very important question to you. Please by all means refer it to me in a respectful manner Hermy. [smilie=antlers.gif] And try to enjoy the weekend or something. I hear the All star events are on tonight and the game is tomorrow. Ya Know, i think 4 pistons got selected for the team. Just a rumor though. [smilie=artist.gif]

Yeah, "cause I think so" isn't a good answer. Sorry guy but I just can't do this with you. Most folks at this site can give reasons for things, but talking to you is a waste. PHO being bad at D is not a reason not to think the individuals are not a part of the root, and that may have been your best effort at an answer. Maybe I don't get the emoticons, maybe you're being sarcastic and I don't understand that you aren't answering me.

I mean, you think the suns aren't a playoff caliber team without Nash? Cause while I haven't bashed nash once for what it is he does, you seem to be saying Marion and crew without Nash wouldn't even get 45in the part where you say Cassell was added to a "playoff team". I think prior to that year the suns made the playoffs something like 6 of the past 7 years. But I'm guessing I just don't get what you're saying. Sorry man. I even blatantly answered a question about last year and you edited it so it look like I didn't. Maybe I'm not being clear enough, I don't know, its just like you aren't reading anything I wrote. Frustrating.

you're the cause of your own fustration. i never said they were bad this year. just not that great(closer to average which is honestly all they need at the moment). !00 points a game isnt great defense, nor is less steals than last year. isnt that enough info for you? Or do i need to call out their sets?
And learn to read Hermy. You'll have a blood pressure Hike.


Because he's on a team who isnt all that great defensively. I said this before. you disputed that. i told you that i've seen them in several games and that its not as good as you'd might think. You didnt agree with it. to each his own. But for the record im not saying they suck this year on defense. in fact they have improved. its closer to average than it was last year and with the way their offense is set up it only has to be about that much.

With that said they are an offenive orient team that wins with their offensive pressure first foremost. he's the cog of that and its that offensive pressure that is the basis upon which they are built. Have they tried this style before? yes, and they been about that style for awhile there. Did it work before Nash got there? no. He's the key IMO. you dont like my take on that? fine, come up with a really decent reply that doesnt involve calling me a dope for disagreeing with you

a 3 point difference in team defensive scoring from last to this yearsounds about right to them being improved but not great.

I mean, you think the suns aren't a playoff caliber team without Nash? Cause while I haven't bashed nash once for what it is he does, you seem to be saying Marion and crew without Nash wouldn't even get 45in the part where you say Cassell was added to a "playoff team". I think prior to that year the suns made the playoffs something like 6 of the past 7 years. But I'm guessing I just don't get what you're saying. Sorry man. I even blatantly answered a question about last year and you edited it so it look like I didn't.-WTF? Maybe I'm not being clear enough, I don't know, its just like you aren't reading anything I wrote. Frustrating.
no, i think the suns are not a playoff team w/o nash and stoudemire. you throw stoudemire back in. then they can maybe get in. But as a gauranteed playoff team, i dont think they are that. theres alot of teams they have had real trouble with whenever nash even gets a rest, let alone be out.

i guess the idea of that being the case doesn't seem plausible to you because you dont think much of nash vs marion in the first place.

As far as Cassell goes, i think was very helpful in their playoff rise from the first round as was sprewell. But the offensive ran through KG more often than not. And it would totally change their whole gameplan if he had gone down as where when cassell went down there were lil or no changes in the gameplan and they still were pretty close to the finals.

As with kg and the wolves, the suns offensive runs through Nash. I have seen it when he goes out for a breather and its not nearly as effective and not as consistent by far. Can Marion still get his double double? yep. Can they as a TEAM still win as many games? no.

Now in vice versa, lets remove Marion and put in stoudemire. Do i think they can make the playoffs without marion? Yep, probally at the 5th-7th spot. Do they get anywhere in the playoffs w/o him? No, teams would key in on Nash, and it would end quick. so I do respect Marion as a valuable asset along with stoudemire. but he's not their most valuable player IMO.

Since you supposedly keep up with the suns, You remember last playoffs right? Do you remember the only effective gameplans that worked on phoenix was to key in on Nash and force him to be a scorer? He put up 35+ but could be the effective and valuable team asset he needed to be. All the adjustments they made involved Nash. Marion was irrelevent if you dealt with what Nash did on the floor.

Look at the end of our game with phoenix. We beat them because of a defensive adjustment on their bread and butter pick and roll play that they run with nash. Did Marion step in and get a shot on his own or find a way to get open? Nope. they were completely shut down towards the end coupled with Rip hitting some big shots.

Now if you deny what happened in those games. I dont know what kool aid you're drinking. but i hope to never sip from it. And for the record i've seen when Marion gets a breather. They are still kicking ass out there and still running their offense effectively. Once again though i say he's a great player and that over the long haul Nash would be worn out having to pickup for the loss of him and stoudemire. But believe me, theres a reason stoudemire lobbied for nash. And he's not just doing something you could get out of any elite pg in his place.

Iverson likes Nash.

http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060220/SPORTS/602200334/1002


Allen Iverson, whose willingness to play team basketball has been called into question many times during his career, has an interesting reason for picking Steve Nash as his midseason MVP. Said Iverson: "Kobe (Bryant) is playing great, but it's a team game. But you always have to look at how successful a team is and Steve Nash is at the top of that list. With Amare (Stoudemire) being out, Steve has been able to keep that team where it is and my vote would be for Steve Nash.

Iverson likes Nash.




Thats 2 people who I can't understand what they're saying. Getting my ass handed to me.

I saw something kind of wild today.

We've only had one player of the week this year, and it was Rip (week of January 22).

Somehow Chauncey has avoided being named player of the week, even when he was getting all of the early MVP buzz.

Even more weird is the fact that he won player of the month for January without winning any of the 5 player of the week awards given out that month.