Im getting to that age where you see the "real world". My question to the wtf elders is, has it always been this fucking screwed up? politically? ethically?

In a word... Yes.

However, I'm 34 years old, and I cannot ever remember our own government ever being so fucked up. The closest scandal in my lifetime was the Iran Contra scandal, but its nothing compared to the Bush regime.

Don't mind Taymelo, he only seems to pay attention to republican "scandals".

Can you be a little more specific on what you are refering to Dylan?

Politics aside and speaking about society in general, in a word yes it's more fucked up.

It's my belief that morals and values of society in general are on the decline. Our youth as time goes on are becomming less respectful and more materialistic.

Has the world ever been THIS fucked up?

Oh hell yeah.

Like Gecko, could you be more specific?

Yeah, fucked up is kinda relative. I think fewer people around the world are dying of hunger, people are FAR more materialistic.... but there are more materials to covet, scandal is unchanged, morality IMO is subjective and we may be in a golden age or we may be in a living hell. I think the BIG difference is we have so much media now letting us know every day just how screwed up the world we've always lived in is.

Has the world ever been THIS fucked up?

Oh hell yeah.

Like Gecko, could you be more specific?

I don't have the time to write long winded responses, unless there to TM I would just say that as a parent I think it would be much harder and scarier to raise a child in today's world then lets say the world of 50-70 years ago. We all know about our grandparents telling us stories about being able to leave their doors unlocked at night and shit like that.

There is a greater majority of Americans today that don't value their life and other lives maybe as much as they once did. Morals and ethics are not subjective either. There are rules, laws and commandments (whatever your personal preference) we as Americans have always had. It just seems that a greater percentage of people today don't respect those rules, laws and commandments as much as they used to. Just an opinion I have, that's all.

Has the world ever been THIS fucked up?

Oh hell yeah.

Like Gecko, could you be more specific?

I don't have the time to write long winded responses, unless there to TM I would just say that as a parent I think it would be much harder and scarier to raise a child in today's world then lets say the world of 50-70 years ago. We all know about our grandparents telling us stories about being able to leave their doors unlocked at night and shit like that.

There is a greater majority of Americans today that don't value their life and other lives maybe as much as they once did. Morals and ethics are not subjective either. There are rules, laws and commandments (whatever your personal preference) we as Americans have always had. It just seems that a greater percentage of people today don't respect those rules, laws and commandments as much as they used to. Just an opinion I have, that's all.

Well, I consider legalized abortion to be high moral ground in a society, I'm willing to guess you don't.

The world has always been fucked up, if you ask me it's getting better though.

How common is slavery now? When was the last time that you heard of a concentration camp? Are people here as broke as the great depression?


We have an idiot for a president, but outside of that I think we're doing alright.

Dylan, if you are actually looking for something other than a "Fuck yeah, the world has always been a shithole" reply then I suggest you ask a less wide open question.

Note to the replies so far: The world extends beyond the US borders.

George Bush can take care of that ;)


Joke, i'm getting to that point now, too. How easy life has been so far...

Could religion be the problem rather than part of a solution. Religion to many is a guide as to how to live, and to most it's a bribe to live a good life in order to get an afterlife. However with the buffet-style religions where you can pick and choose what to believe everybody has their own religion that just by chance fits nicely the way they want to live. There is really no sacrifice to religion anymore. And since everybody believes their religion and way of life are a peace with one-another they are going to heaven. Now since there is Heaven, life on earth means less.

Look at the religious rich in America, they've found a chuch(probably founded by rich people) that makes it okay to hoard all that wealth in big houses and fancy cars. Others seem to believe that as long as they ask for forgiveness that all will be well and the'll be allowed to walk through the pearly gates - no matter how phony that desire for forgiveness is. If you do it knowing it's wrong, but brush it off saying I'll go to church on Sunday and ask for forgiveness - THAT'S NOT HOW IT'S SUPPOSED TO WORK. You are supposed to be truely sorry for your actions, and if you knew it was wrong in the first place and did it, that is not somethign that should be easily forgiven.

To me there is nothing more stomach turning that having to listen to a holier than thou Born Again Christian. They lived a less than stellar existance, but now are saved because they asked for forgiveness and, of course, God accepted. It is now common belief that no matter how shitty a life you lead, if on your deathbed you ask for forgiveness - all is kosher between you and the big man upstairs. Like 70 years of being a evil prick is somehow wiped away with a moment of "clarity" when one is on their deathbed.

Churches and Priests are just as much part of the problem. With dwindling congregations, they don't want to lay biblical law on anybody because all of their parishoners will just find a new chucrh that doesn't make them feel so guilty about their actions and lifestyle.

Then you look to Muslims - you die a martyr and you're heading to heaven where you will be rewarded with 12 virgins. Seeing as how many in the Arab world live, that sounds like a damn good deal to me.

Buddhists get chance after chance as well.

I think if this life was treated as your only shot and then you ceased to exist, many people would live differently. Of course this could lead to more greed, as people would have "no reason" to be decent and nice. I don't really know how you teach morals to children without using the backdrop of religion, as I was brought up Catholic. Are people only nice and decent because they want to get into Heaven? In that case are they by in large being phony like working at a charity just to spruce up your resume for a job interview?? I dunno. But if you saw this as your one and only shot, I don't think people would work so damn hard for material things, people wouldn't risk rotting away in jail for years and years.

I'm just rambling, so I'll stop now as I've probably pissed off enough people.

Has the world ever been THIS fucked up?

Oh hell yeah.

Like Gecko, could you be more specific?

I don't have the time to write long winded responses, unless there to TM I would just say that as a parent I think it would be much harder and scarier to raise a child in today's world then lets say the world of 50-70 years ago. We all know about our grandparents telling us stories about being able to leave their doors unlocked at night and shit like that.

There is a greater majority of Americans today that don't value their life and other lives maybe as much as they once did. Morals and ethics are not subjective either. There are rules, laws and commandments (whatever your personal preference) we as Americans have always had. It just seems that a greater percentage of people today don't respect those rules, laws and commandments as much as they used to. Just an opinion I have, that's all.

Well, I consider legalized abortion to be high moral ground in a society, I'm willing to guess you don't.

You think you can bait me with that? Try harder.

Could religion be the problem rather than part of a solution. Religion to many is a guide as to how to live, and to most it's a bribe to live a good life in order to get an afterlife. However with the buffet-style religions where you can pick and choose what to believe everybody has their own religion that just by chance fits nicely the way they want to live. There is really no sacrifice to religion anymore. And since everybody believes their religion and way of life are a peace with one-another they are going to heaven. Now since there is Heaven, life on earth means less.

Look at the religious rich in America, they've found a chuch(probably founded by rich people) that makes it okay to hoard all that wealth in big houses and fancy cars. Others seem to believe that as long as they ask for forgiveness that all will be well and the'll be allowed to walk through the pearly gates - no matter how phony that desire for forgiveness is. If you do it knowing it's wrong, but brush it off saying I'll go to church on Sunday and ask for forgiveness - THAT'S NOT HOW IT'S SUPPOSED TO WORK. You are supposed to be truely sorry for your actions, and if you knew it was wrong in the first place and did it, that is not somethign that should be easily forgiven.

To me there is nothing more stomach turning that having to listen to a holier than thou Born Again Christian. They lived a less than stellar existance, but now are saved because they asked for forgiveness and, of course, God accepted. It is now common belief that no matter how shitty a life you lead, if on your deathbed you ask for forgiveness - all is kosher between you and the big man upstairs. Like 70 years of being a evil prick is somehow wiped away with a moment of "clarity" when one is on their deathbed.

Churches and Priests are just as much part of the problem. With dwindling congregations, they don't want to lay biblical law on anybody because all of their parishoners will just find a new chucrh that doesn't make them feel so guilty about their actions and lifestyle.

Then you look to Muslims - you die a martyr and you're heading to heaven where you will be rewarded with 12 virgins. Seeing as how many in the Arab world live, that sounds like a damn good deal to me.

Buddhists get chance after chance as well.

I think if this life was treated as your only shot and then you ceased to exist, many people would live differently. Of course this could lead to more greed, as people would have "no reason" to be decent and nice. I don't really know how you teach morals to children without using the backdrop of religion, as I was brought up Catholic. Are people only nice and decent because they want to get into Heaven? In that case are they by in large being phony like working at a charity just to spruce up your resume for a job interview?? I dunno. But if you saw this as your one and only shot, I don't think people would work so damn hard for material things, people wouldn't risk rotting away in jail for years and years.

I'm just rambling, so I'll stop now as I've probably pissed off enough people.

You have a warped perception of the Christian identity. Christians sin as much as non-christians. I know plenty of rich christians that act as you suggest but I also know plenty more that give back much more than they take and are humble. I would like to share with you one day a story about a few from my church that spent the night in under a bridge in Mt. Clemens this past december. I would love to also share some of the great mission I have going this spring and summer. If you ever interested in helping out those less fortunate let me know.

Great, great post Kilo.

I share many of your thoughts about organized religion.




alsodidyoutakeituptheol'poopshootasayoungchurchboy ?

Great, great post Kilo.

I share many of your thoughts about organized religion.




alsodidyoutakeituptheol'poopshootasayoungchurchboy ?

That's too bad because that's a myth that's just not true.

Geck, it's a joke.

He always posts that the Pistons are going to "take it up the ol' poopshoot" in the game thread.

Geck, it's a bit of an inside joke.

He always posts that the Pistons are going to "take it up the ol' poopshoot" in the game thread.

I knew the poopshoot thing wa a joke I was referring to the thoughts on organized religion. I haven't seen those thoughts played out in real life except in the media.

I don't know how anyone can dispute that religion is a primary factor in a disproportionate amount of international violent/deadly clashes.

Likewise, I don't know how you can dispute Kilo's assertion that a certain segment of the well-to-do God-fearing folk in this country have a big "heavenly" payback in mind as their motivation to be philanthropic/charitable.

I don't know how anyone can dispute that religion is a primary factor in a disproportionate amount of international violent/deadly clashes.

Likewise, I don't know how you can dispute Kilo's assertion that a certain segment of the well-to-do God-fearing folk in this country have a big "heavenly" payback in mind as their motivation to be philanthropic/charitable.

people commit murder in the name of religion not the other way around. Humans commit dispicable acts in the name of anything and everything.

The payback you speak of isn't supposed to be that way. Christians are supposed to do things, not brag about them and not look for anything in return. I know plenty that do Glenn.

You perception is just that. it's not the truth GD and it's hard to know that if you are not involved in it.

The payback you speak of isn't supposed to be that way. Christians are supposed to do things, not brag about them and not look for anything in return. I know plenty that do Glenn.

I'm sure there are plenty that do, which is why I didn't say "all" or even "most" or "many". Surely you aren't saying that this is a false statement.



Likewise, I don't know how you can dispute Kilo's assertion that a certain segment of the well-to-do God-fearing folk in this country have a big "heavenly" payback in mind as their motivation to be philanthropic/charitable.

The payback you speak of isn't supposed to be that way. Christians are supposed to do things, not brag about them and not look for anything in return. I know plenty that do Glenn.

I'm sure there are plenty that do, which is why I didn't say "all" or even "most" or "many". Surely you aren't saying that this is a false statement.



Likewise, I don't know how you can dispute Kilo's assertion that a certain segment of the well-to-do God-fearing folk in this country have a big "heavenly" payback in mind as their motivation to be philanthropic/charitable.

Yeah, I won't disagree but what's the big deal? Humans make mistakes christian or not. Our brains are wired to feel good at the end of doing something good. You certainly have felt good for doing something good for someone else. I also know that you personally have done something good for someone at some time and hoped or wondered if you would be paid back for the good deed. I know this for fact cause it's quantum physics and our brains are wired like pavlovs dog. It's one of the brain's addictions like what keeps you loving your kid and wife. Call it payback from god or karma it's the same. This "is" something there is no dispute over. So what you see is a flaw is simply humanity and the wau it was wired.

Christ said to do good things for others and not expect somthing good to happen or brag about doing it. If we didn't act this way there would be no need for him to of said it.

Cool. Sounds like we agree on that aspect, at least.

I'm stepping back out now, since this part of the discussion is veering off of the intended topic.

I didn't mean to hijack this thread. I agree than there is plenty of religious organizations doing a lot of good in the world that we rarely hear about. I don't doubt that. My issue was with how people can pick and choose parts of their chosen religion so that it conforms with their lifestyle instead of conforming their lifestyle with their religion. Where we disagree is that you think that is the minority, where I believe that to be the majority. I am willing to agree to disagree as you have your life experiences and I have mine.

I would rather a mod seperate our discussion out of this thread and swat it for the good of the board(I've never been swatted before - might as well start now, as I'd deserve it). Nothing will be accomplished arguing such a topic, let alone doing so over a message board and it could be rather devisive and effect ones enjoyment to the site.

People fighting over religion isn't anything new. We've been doing that since the start of time.

People fighting over religion isn't anything new. We've been doing that since the start of time.

yes along with fighting over land, resources, race, creed, soccer teams, politics and other.

It's humanity that disappoints.

People fighting over religion isn't anything new. We've been doing that since the start of time.

yes along with fighting over land, resources, race, creed, soccer teams, politics and other.

It's humanity that disappoints.
i actually agree gecko. we seem to look to use all these other things as scapegoats instead of looking in the mirror.

People fighting over religion isn't anything new. We've been doing that since the start of time.

yes along with fighting over land, resources, race, creed, soccer teams, politics and other.

It's humanity that disappoints.

The common denominator? Power and Control.

Fool has a good point.

When is the last time we have seen slavery or concentration camps?

When's the last time you have seen people die in hunger? Think of the people in Africa. They are starving. The poorer are getting poorer while the rich are getting richer.

The US is taking over IMO. We are abusing our power. Im not much of a politics person so correct me if Im wrong

Fool has a good point.

When is the last time we have seen slavery or concentration camps?

When's the last time you have seen people die in hunger? Think of the people in Africa. They are starving. The poorer are getting poorer while the rich are getting richer.

The US is taking over IMO. We are abusing our power. Im not much of a politics person so correct me if Im wrong

Rwanada anyone? Everyday shit like that is happening in Africa somewhere.

For all her anger and ridicule and hatred, she showed from time to time a kind of pity, as toward the inhabitants of the "leaning tower," whose education and upbringing trap them. "Let us imagine ... that we are actually upon a leaning tower and note our sensation." Note that the view is slanting, sidelong, feel the discomfort, the self-pity for that discomfort, the pity turning to "anger against the builder, against society, for making us uncomfortable." Note that you cannot abuse all of society while you continue to profit from it, so you have to find scapegoats. "Anger; pity; scapegoat bleating; excuse finding -- these are all very natural tendencies; if we were in their position we should tend to do the same. But we are not in their position.... We have only been climbing an imaginary tower. We can cease to imagine. We can come down. But they cannot." Even when they realize the tower was founded on injustice and tyranny, even when they violently and half-heartedly preach against injustice, even when they long to be human and whole, they are "trapped by their education, pinned down by their capital" and remain on top of their leaning tower.

its a fucking cold ass world man.
god alway lets bad shit happen to the best people
and the evil in this world dont get theirs while living.



RIP.










If you have to know its in my sig.

If you have to know its in my sig.

those 3 canadian kids? you knew those guys?

They're my cousins nephews

They're my cousins nephews

aw, damn. sorry to hear that, Anthony :(

I've expressed my condolences already, but allow me to reiterate that what happened to Anthony's cousin's nephews blows.

Dylan, one more thing: remember the crisis in Darfur? Yeah. Still happening. 150,000 dead, 2 MILLION homeless. It's even spreading into Chad (country bordering Sudan to the west). This thing is gonna get worse before it gets better and there's not much further it can go.

Sound the alarm. [smilie=alpacacall.: