The dominoes are starting to fall.

Minnesota trades Wally Szczerbiak, Michael Olowakandi, Dwyane Jones and a first rounder to Boston for Ricky Davis, Marcus Banks, Mark Blount, Justin Reed, and two 2nd rounders.

HOLY SHIT DUDE!!!!

WOW! LET THE TRADES BEGIN!!!

for the record wally>>davis, but they gotta do something so fuck it. could this mean Pierce is next?

http://www.mrbensons.co.uk/sl/l/6/S_V0060522.jpg

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/5282628

ouch, the kandi man wasnt worth grabbing. but blount has been inconsistent.

i wonder whats next.

LOL@this shitty trade. Its like piles of shit being moved to different locations.

LOL@Barkley on TNT

"wow! that's gonna shift the balance of power in the NBA!"

I was going to bag on this trade for Boston but looking at the contracts... They've basically combined Blount and Davis' contracts into Wally's (with Kandi's expiring this year). Blounts ran till 2010 and Davis' till '08 while Wally's ends in '09. This gives Jefferson a chance to start (at worst next year) but most of their young's contracts are up in '08 and Wally's contract will be expiring in 09 so the Celtics should be able to move him if they need the money to sign Jefferson or West.

As for the Timberwolves, eh. They get a slasher instead of a shooter in Davis and Blount is capable offensively. I guess thats an improvement since they are struggling offensively as a team (91pts/game) but Blount's contract is almost as bad as Wally's (maybe worse since he's much worse of a player) and Kandi was expiring and I would think they could do better with it than just using it to move Wally for a longer and half as expensive Blount.

Overall, Mchale is an idiot and Ainge is still a flea market trader (he trades marginal for more marginal).

This is a great trade for both teams.

Boston gets outside shooting and clears up some pt up front, while Minnesota gets more athletic with the addition of Davis. KG should be able to make up for Blount's defensive weaknesses. And, Banks could be a future starter for them at PG.

McHale doesn't have a clue on how to run a team.

Talent-wise, this trade was apples for oranges.

Wally isn't going to do shit in boston. He's a spot up shooter, but they have no bigs on the celtics and their 1's aren't anything special. All I can see him doing is getting in pierce's way.


I'm curious to see how Davis plays with Garnett. as long as he has his ego and sanity in line he'll be so very productive.

I like this trade alot for the wolves, but i don't understand why Boston would do it.

Minny wins this deal IMO

They needed someone who could create their own shot. That's why they were so successful with Sprewell and Cassell. It meant KG didn't have to do everything. Now they have Davis to handle that role. Having the ball in his hands to create and drive the lane? He'll love it. Playing with KG just makes it that much sweeter.

Blount is better or equal to Kandi, even if his contract is fucked up. I remember earlier this season he was playing quite well and if he can be productive for the Wolves they'll be happy. They don't need 10 and 10, just a presence so again KG doesn't have to carry so much of the load.

Banks? A decent defender at PG and about to become a free agent. If he shows anything the Wolves can keep him - if not they'll let him walk. No big deal there, unless of course he's decent. Then they got a decent player basically for free.

The rest is just spare parts for the Wolves (2 seconds and Reed) but it's not like they gave up much to get this deal done.

Boston took the biggest risk here IMO. If Wally doesn't thrive in their offense it's a very fucked up deal. Kandi is expiring so they're likely to dump him after the season to save money.

The future first could be as early as 2006 which is a pretty bland Draft from all reports. I know they always say that at this time of year but I'm reading reports about there being little difference between a player likely to be drafted #10 and one drafted #25 - that ain't good.

So, it all comes down to Wally for Boston. If he can get his shit together and gel with Pierce then they get something decent in the deal. If he's his usual self then they fucked up IMO.

Quick Breakdown:

Davis = or > Wally
Blount = or > Kandi
Reed = Jones
2 seconds = First

Banks is free.

It's not the best deal McHale could have done, but it's not crap either.

Well, I just found out about the first rounder:

From Ainge himself:


We really didn't want a pick in this years draft. We wanted a pick in the 08 draft. We analyzed talent in the draft this year and thats where the talent is, 08. Its lottery protected in 08, protected to 5 in 09, and top 3 protected after that

http://celticsblog.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3458

And apparently the Wolves owe a first to the Clippers!

They dealt Cassell and a first for Jaric? Fuck, that was stupid

I agree with Pharoah.

Davis is better than Wally and Blount is better than Kandi.

I read something this morning that said that the Celtics will most likely try to move Kandi or buy him out.

They don't want him around, and they want to give all the PT to Perkins & Jefferson.

I'd guess buy him out, he's a tough guy to move.

Why bother to buy him out? If he's expiring, just leave him on the bench in case of injury. Suppose Walley works out and you make the playoffs. You might want Kandi just to waste fouls on Shaq. Then don't resign him.

Unless you can trade him for something, then you might as well do it.

Maybe because he's one of the biggest cancers in the NBA and they don't want him influencing all of their young players?

Anybody hear what Bill Walton said about this deal? I'll try and find his quote.

If he's a cancer, then yes I agree.

If he's a cancer trade him to the Pacers.

I haven't been able to find the Walton quote, but I heard it on Sportscenter.

It was something like "What a horrible deal for the Celtics. Any team that adds Michael Olowokandi immediatley becomes worse".

I'll keep looking for the actual quote.

I don't think you can just say "Blount is better than Kandi". The whole point of getting rid of Blount is to get Jefferson and Perkins to play. Both of those guys have the potential to be much better than either Blount or Kandi combined. Thus getting out from under Blount is better than having him or having Kandi (who they won't have next year).

They get out of Blount's contract, free up time for Perkins/Jefferson, get rid of any Ricky Davis issues that they may have, bring a new "great white hope" to Boston, and save $5 million.

On the surface, it looks like Danny did alright for a change.

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2006/01/27/celtics_deal_davis_blount/


EDIT: Funny, reading "another board" the consensus is that Boston got shafted here. Weird.

The Sports Guy's dad will sleep easier from now on.

I'm picking Minny as the big winner in this. Not big in the sense that it makes them a contender, but they got a lot more out of the deal than they gave up to Boston.

I would trade Wally for Davis straight up - throw in Blount and Banks and it seems like a steal for Minny to me.

In sum, Ainge is still really, really dumb.

They get out of Blount's contract, free up time for Perkins/Jefferson, get rid of any Ricky Davis issues that they may have, bring a new "great white hope" to Boston, and save $5 million.

On the surface, it looks like Danny did alright for a change.

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2006/01/27/celtics_deal_davis_blount/


EDIT: Funny, reading "another board" the consensus is that Boston got shafted here. Weird.

GD - The surface? Fuck that. The consensus is correct.

Tay explained it really quickly for those that hate my long ass posts.

I'll have to think about it some more, but I still think the slight edge goes to Boston.

--I see Wally>Davis, add to that my opinion that Wally will be a fan favorite in Boston (some of you might know what I'm saying)

--Kandi's expiring deal

--$5 million in savings

--No longer having Blount's mistake of a contract

--Getting rid of the negative Ricky/Blount personas, (partially cancelled out by Kandi, if they keep him around)

--Freeing up time for Perkins/Jefferson (addition by subtraction)

You guys must think more highly of Blount than I do. Check out his contract and his rebounding prowess. He's been an albatross there since he signed that contract. They've been trying to give Banks away for a long time (I think they even had him gone at one point, then a deal got overturned?)

I just don't see how you can say that Boston got "shafted" here or that Minny is the "big winner", maybe I can understand if you think Minny did slightly better, but I can't see the "shafting".

Forgot to add that Boston also get's Minnys future first rd pick, which seems like it's going to be a pretty decent pick, and only gives up two seconds.

GD: I don't see Wally>Davis.

White boy might be a favourite in Boston but his D is shit, he can't drive and his contract is pretty bad as well. Let's also not forget he didn't exactly get along with KG.

(if you're gonna conjure up Ricky issues then I can bring up Wally isuues)

Kandi's expiring deal? Nice thing to have but on the floor he doesn't help. The fact that he might be a cancer just makes it worse.

$5 million in savings? Long-term this helps when it comes time to re-sign the young guys but it doesn't help the team on the floor right now.

No longer having Blount's mistake of a contract? No, they now have Wally's contract instead. Same shit, different day.

Getting rid of the negative Ricky/Blount personas, (partially cancelled out by Kandi, if they keep him around)? What problem did Ricky have? None to my knowledge. Blount? Didn't he just want to play? Or was he an asshole about it?

Freeing up time for Perkins/Jefferson (addition by subtraction)? Agreed they get more time but haven't they been getting plenty of playing time lately? And if the Celtics wanted to give them more time why didn't they just bench Blount? BTW, any time you play young guys you have to live with their mistakes.

I think Blount has a bad contract, but isn't that bad up front. Sure his board numbers are shit, but he's a presence that Minny will use a lot. He can score, which is something they need.

And just because they've been trying to give Banks away doesn't mean he's shit. It means they have too many PG's that are decent. They basically got nothing for Banks. Not a smart move.

(over-turned trade was with the Lakers)

Boston might not have been "shafter" but they lost here IMO.

The only asset they got in the deal was Wally and the pick.

Minny got Blount, Banks and Davis. The 2 seconds? Don't even know who they're coming from.

wally and/or pierce are gonna be forced to plat SG. it'll be great on offense but neither one of them is quick enough on defense IMHO.

You're calling Wally's bad deal and Blounts bad deal a push? I'll take the guy with the bad deal that is a former All Star, is shooting 50% and scoring 20 PPG.

We're not going to agree on this, but that is fine by me.



The only asset they got in the deal was Wally and the pick.


Since when is a sizable expiring deal not an asset?

You seem to be thinking of this deal in terms of who this helps THIS YEAR. I think both teams are shit, so that is sort of irrelevant IMO. Neither one is going anywhere this season.

WTF? Gutz I think an Edit is needed.

But I know what you meant which is exactly why this trade makes less sense for Boston.

Minny needed Blount and Davis.

Boston should have stood pat or given Minny a future first to swap Blount for Kandi.

Taking Wally and giving up Davis and Banks is just fucking stupid.

Kandi's contract is an asset - but I don't think they can move it by the deadline.

I don't give a fuck if Wally shoots 50% and scores 20 per. I think he's gonna struggle in Boston.

Blount is a big man that will get you 10 points and 4 boards in 28 minutes. Not that impressive, right?

I beg to differ, especially when the entire league is struggling to find any motherfucker that can really play C.

Once again I'm not saying Minny make out like bandits but I think they got the better end of this deal.

And GD - when I judge a trade I look at the here and now PLUS the future.

I said it all comes down to Wally and it does. If he meshes with Boston then they did fine. Cleared salary, got a pick and replaced Davis with Wally.

Still lose Banks for nothing, but you could write it off as the price of clearing salary.

But, if he struggles (and I expect he will) then it's not looking so good.

Throw in the fact that I think Davis will thrive in Minny, Blount will at least be reasonable for the them and they got Banks it's easy to see why I think Minny won the deal.

I guess we'll have to wait and see though.

Boston is trying to get back to their roots. Surround 2-3 black players with as many white ones as possible. and play that celtic ball. [smilie=antlers.gif]

I think Boston got screwed because Wally is going to suck there. Wally is better suited to playing second fiddle to a post player. How is he going to get open looks? Unless Pierce decides to play in the post (which he can do), Wally will be shooting mostly contested shots. Just think of how much Korver would suck without AI drawing double teams. And AI is a better passer than Pierce too.

Notes:

The Celtics want Pierce at SG (but I agree that defensively Pierce/SG and Wally/SF is worse then Pierce/Ricky).
The Celtics only save about 3-4 mill as two of the contracts they sent Minny were expiring.

Blounts contract goes until (at least 2010) while Wally is up in 09.

Minny did need more offensive options and they got them.
I agree that Minny also needed a future PG, if Banks works out it helps them, but he was never playing ahead of West (nor Green probably), won't be better than West, and his contract is up this year so "losing" him is not really a feature of the trade as its debatable if they could have gotten anything better for a guy everyone knew wasn't going to be around next year.

LOL@Barkley on TNT

"wow! that's gonna shift the balance of power in the NBA!"



LMAO!

Just think of how much Korver would suck without AI drawing double teams. And AI is a better passer than Pierce too.
yea korver couldnt get his own shot to save his life. if he could philly might be way ahead of the nets instead behind them at the moment.

I've always thought that Pierce was playing out of position at SF, but I think the same about Mo Evans and Delfino, so maybe something's wrong with me.

I've always thought that Pierce was playing out of position at SF, but I think the same about Mo Evans and Delfino, so maybe something's wrong with me.

Yeah, Tmac and Lebron too. They are all SG's forced to play SF. It's less common than PF's playing out of position at Center though.

Since Minnesota is getting som many second rounders is it safe to assume we'll get theirs this season. ALSO is our pick Minnesota's second rounder or a second rounder because since they got a second for Skita, we could be looking at the PHX second rounder...

Its like piles of shit being moved to different locations.

That was the best quote.

Who cares. You guys are debating over 2 crappy teams. Now if KG or Pierce would have gotten traded from these teams, it would be newsworthy, but it was a slow white guy and a crazy black dude. There are plenty of both these kinds of players in the league, I just dont get how this is newsworthy.


Art

Fool - they got nothing for Banks.

I think they could have got more.

It doesn't matter though because Art is right:

Who really cares about this?

I don't consider Sam Smith to be credible, but he's always got interesting "theories", at least.

Here he is saying that the acquisition of Wally paves the way for a PP deal.

And I bolded part of this for you Pharaoh, just for shits and giggles.

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/13744092.htm


Pierce could make Bulls a power

BY SAM SMITH
Chicago Tribune

CHICAGO - Time to get serious. Only 25 shopping days until the NBA trading deadline. And I'm looking for a star for the Bulls.

The trading floor is officially open now that Ron Artest has gone to Sacramento. A half dozen teams were holding onto players until the Artest deal went through. Boston and Minnesota followed immediately with a seven-player deal that seems, at least to me, a precursor that Boston will trade Paul Pierce. The Celtics insist the trade was made to get supporting players, but Pierce now is the only player on the roster not acquired by Danny Ainge. The Boston general manager has a vision for a young, up-tempo team that I don't see including Pierce, though Ainge has never deferred to my alleged expertise.

I've long believed Kevin Garnett will one day ask the Timberwolves to trade him to a team with a chance to make a strong playoff run. It seems more likely now as the Timberwolves grow desperate. General manager Kevin McHale is under attack from fans and media in Minneapolis with senior columnist Sid Hartman calling the Wally Szczerbiak deal the worst ever and another Twin Cities columnist saying avid golfer McHale should only be allowed to choose between a driver and a 3-wood. McHale blasted the team after a loss last week along with, for some odd reason, scout Rex Chapman, and insiders say Garnett rarely speaks with McHale anymore.

Still, I don't see any Garnett deal involving the Bulls because the Bulls don't have the big players to deal if Minnesota eventually chooses to move its best big man.

But Boston has a developing front line. The Bulls could put together the kind of package that could attract the Celtics - I believe Boston is looking to hit a home run with Pierce in a Garnett-type deal - and put in place the team that could move forward as a serious contender. I don't believe the Bulls will make a deal in the next month, but why hang onto all the salary-cap room and draft picks if you can get a star now, especially a veteran? As someone who doesn't have the job as general manager, I also don't risk of losing it.

Perhaps Adam Morrison of Gonzaga or J.J. Redick of Duke will be stars in the NBA. They and Texas' LaMarcus Aldridge are considered the top picks along with another big guy from Europe named Andrea Bargnani. The way the Knicks are going, the Bulls could have one of the top picks, out of the Eddy Curry deal. But are any of those players the star the Bulls need?
The Celtics need a point guard. They like Delonte West, but more as a shooting guard. So consider this proposal: Chris Duhon, who has shown he can run a team and make a three-pointer, local favorite Ben Gordon from Connecticut, Eric Piatkowski and Tim Thomas (who have expiring contracts) along with the Bulls' No. 1 pick for Pierce and Raef LaFrentz? Gordon can score almost as much as Pierce, the Celtics would get another No. 1 - give them the Knicks' pick if they want top-five protection - they get their point guard and save tens of millions of dollars by getting rid of LaFrentz's contract. And in Szczerbiak, they now have a scorer who can be popular with fans to replace Pierce. And where have they gone with Pierce? The deal also works for the salary cap.

The deal would eat up all the Bulls' salary-cap room, but if you have the chance to get a player like Pierce who can carry a team for a quarter and draw a double team, you have to take a shot with the high-level complementary players the Bulls have.

If the Bulls wait until summer, would Al Harrington be that player? I doubt it. And LaFrentz, albeit overpaid, can be a serviceable big man who can shoot outside. With Tyson Chandler playing as he has lately, the Bulls could really be one top player away with a lineup of Kirk Hinrich, Pierce, Luol Deng, Chandler and a Udonis Haslem power forward-type they might get in the draft or free agency.

The Bulls don't need perimeter scoring. I guess Sam Smith hasn't noticed that the Bulls score 98% of their points from within 2 feet of the arc. Why in Gods holy trinity would they throw away the chance "to make a franchise elevating move" so Danny Ainge can get rid of Reaf LafuckingFrentz.

No offense GD but that article doesn't mean shit.

I stand by my previous posts and believe that Minny won the deal.

No offense GD but that article doesn't mean shit.

I stand by my previous posts and believe that Minny won the deal.

LOL, of course you do

I didn't think you were going to backpedal based on a Sam Smith article.

I just found it funny that most reasonable people can debate all day long about this deal, and for the most part, will agree that it is basically even or a slight edge to one team.

The "worst deal ever" thing just cracked me up.

That might be the Knicks acquiring Eddy Curry.

LOL, of course you

[smilie=pillowfight:

Well, that's the usual for Smith.

Everything is the best this or worst that.

Dude can't keep things in perspective for some reason.

Not that it matters, but I think he was actually quoting another columnist, "senior columnist Sid Hartman".

And Fool, you better tread lightly.

PMs. Ice, so very thin.

It doesn't matter who he quoted though - he's a fucking idiot.

Check out his trade idea.

Another opinion on the deal, from Fox Sports' Mike Kahn.

The new Wolves looked pretty good last night, except for Ricky.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/5292260


6. Item: The Minnesota Timberwolves sent Wally Szczerbiak, Michael Olowokandi and Developmental League player Dwayne Jones to the Boston Celtics for Ricky Davis, Mark Blount, Justin Reed, Marcus Banks and two conditional second round picks.

What this really means: The deal comes on the heels of a bizarre locker room scene following a two-point loss to the Philadelphia 76ers during which executive vice president Kevin McHale chastised the team and scout Rex Chapman reportedly ripped into Szczerbiak and superstar Kevin Garnett for failing to play together. The move sticks the Wolves with a long-term deal for the under-achieving Blount and the disruptive Davis. Reports are already out there that Banks may end up in Seattle in exchange for Reggie Evans and Flip Murray in a separate deal.

All of this makes life tough on rookie coach Dwane Casey, with McHale and Chapman — of all people — taking over his locker room following a tough two-point loss. Whether or not the Garnett/Szczerbiak thing has been an issue in recent years is strictly speculation. What does appear obvious is McHale making the right moves to get the Wolves into the conference finals was an aberration as opposed to a big step forward. Since then, they have fired coach Flip Saunders, failed to make the playoffs and are even worse this season. And this deal, despite the extreme talent but displaced focus of Davis being a potential boon, appears to be another McHale folly — begging the question, does he have clue what he's doing? Not if a scout — even if he is Rex Chapman — walks into the locker room and chews out K.G.

7. Item: Getting rid of Blount's fat contract and underachievement allows Boston Celtics president Danny Ainge and coach Doc Rivers the latitude to develop their young core and around high-scoring swingman Paul Pierce.

What this really means: They'll get a much more focused contributor in Szczerbiak than Davis, plus this opens the door for youngsters Al Jefferson, Kendrick Perkins and Delonte West to blossom as the heart of the team. It is strange how Ainge goes through these phases where he seems to have no clue what he's doing, then he'll turn around and make a great move like this one. It looked improbable — if not quite impossible — to dump Blount's bloated pay. Sure, they had to take on Olowokandi, but it's just for this season as insurance for Jefferson and Perkins. If they want him back, they'll be able to take a shot at him.

That's not to say Ainge fleeced his old buddy from the Celtics McHale — there is no guarantee that Szczerbiak will continue to be worth the huge money they pay him if he reverts back to being injury prone as he was before last season. And Davis is more versatile with his skills. But they know Szczerbiak will play hard, and to win, and it will take some of the pressure off of Pierce to be the only big-time shooter. And even though they're just 18-26, they're still only four games out of the playoffs.

And Charlie Rosen added this interesting tidbit...

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/5294042


Before the game, Blount made two interesting observations: One, That he was happy to be dealt to a team that will contend for the championship. Perhaps Blount doesn't read the newspapers or he'd know that, even with their most recent win, the T-Wolves' record is 21-22. Second, Blount also said, "It's nice to be the main focus of the trade." Uh-oh!

LMFAO @ Blount. I guess the dude really is as dumb as he looks.

Um, break it down for me GD and explain WHY it was a good trade for Boston.

I have not read one review that comes even close to changing my opinion. Those reporters are fucking idiots though. You on the other hand are not.

So give it a shot. I'm open to any and all possible reasons why Ainge got the better deal.

BTW:

McHale got Davis, Banks, Reed and 2 seconds to take on the shitty contract of Blount.

What did Ainge get for taking on the shitty contract of Wally? A future first, Jones, saved money now and got the expiring contract of Kandi.

Seems to me McHale got the better deal and Banks might even show he's got some game after all.

Anyone actually watch the Celtics v Wolves game?

All this deal did was save Boston some tax dollars next year. with 37+ mil/year invested in PP, Reaf and Wally, they won't be seeing cap space for a few years. This did nothing for them but save them a few million bucks. The only way Boston wins on this deal is if they find a true gem in the draft (like Prince was) with that first rounder. Otherwise they lost.

For a deal of this (in)significance, I think I've broken it down about as much as it deserves.

And since there is zero chance that you are going to come around to my way of thinking, I don't have the energy to do any more.

As I've said before, I respect your opinion quite a bit, so I don't see any reason to debate it any further. I'd much rather be lazy and post pundit opinions at this point.

I haven't read any that said that flat out say that Minny got the better end of the deal yet, but I'll post them if I see them.

All this deal did was save Boston some tax dollars next year. with 37+ mil/year invested in PP, Reaf and Wally, they won't be seeing cap space for a few years. This did nothing for them but save them a few million bucks. The only way Boston wins on this deal is if they find a true gem in the draft (like Prince was) with that first rounder. Otherwise they lost.

I don't know how you can say that definitively at this point. Doesn't this deal allow them, if they choose to, to trade Pierce for something significant?

I think it will be 2 years, at least, before anybody knows for sure how this all shakes out.

All this deal did was save Boston some tax dollars next year. with 37+ mil/year invested in PP, Reaf and Wally, they won't be seeing cap space for a few years. This did nothing for them but save them a few million bucks. The only way Boston wins on this deal is if they find a true gem in the draft (like Prince was) with that first rounder. Otherwise they lost.

I don't know how you can say that definitively at this point. Doesn't this deal allow them, if they choose to, to trade Pierce for something significant?


How does it effect that? Wally for Davis is a swingman for swingman swap. That doesn't allow them to move PP. I could see if they traded blount for Wally (assuming the deals matched), then it would allow them to move PP for any position and still have 2 swingmen. I think it actually hurts their ability to move PP. PP is their only player capable of creating his own shot. As much as I dislike Davis, he could as well. Wally cannot do that. If they trade PP now, they'll have to get a guy who can create his own shot as well. Suppose they traded PP for a guy like Peja (not him specifically, but a one dimensional shooter). Then they have a bunch of shooters, no post player, and no creator. Who draws the double teams? If they had Davis, they could make that deal (don't know why they would) for a shooter and still have a playmaker.

I think this deal makes them less flexable, especially when you consider they now have one bigger bad contract (Wally's 11 mil) instead of the smaller bad contract (Blount) which would me easier to move IMO.

However, IF they keep PP they have a guy to complement him and strertch the floor for him. and IF they get a good player with the pick, then the deal will be good for them. But, IF they plan on dealing PP, I think they made that harder with this deal.

Okay, I can buy that they may have made it more difficult, but maybe only marginally.

What if they do trade PP for a guy that can get his own shot?

What if they can get something like Melo & Andre Miller for him?

I don't think anybody has any idea how this is going to shake out right now, but they got rid of some pieces they didn't want, they added a guy that they did want, a 1st, and a large expiring deal.

We'll see.

If they trade PP for Melo (just an example I know), then that would work for them. All I meant is that it does not help them move PP, and it does not help them financially either (long term).

If you feel Wally fits this team better than Davis and Blount on a personnel level, than you think they got better. I'm not trying to change your mind. I just think they got worse financially and flexability wise. So Ainge better think he got the better player(s) in this deal or he completely lost.

BTW, it's refreshing to have a debate about a trade with posters that have a clue, so don't take it personal that I don't agree with you.

It's never personal, WTFChris.

It's just business.

http://www.thechiefsource.com/hello/379906/1024/Michael%20Corleone-2005.03.21-07.39.16.jpg

GD - I'll co-sign Chris POV that it's good to debate this deal with someone like yourself.

I can see your POV that the trade was a good move for Boston.

I just think Minny got more out of the deal.

You're right that this trade can't really be evalutated until the pick is used but right now I think of this trade like this:

For Minny:

Blount v Kandi - Kandi was a waste of fucking space for the Wolves and he had an expiring deal so they wanted to move him. They got a decent scorer and a big body to plug in at C. Sure the contract sucks but big men get paid.

Davis v Wally - they trade a shitty contract for a reasonable one and got a player that can create his own shot. The Wolves seriosuly needed that.

Reed v Jones - who gives a fuck?

Banks and 2 seconds v future first rounder - Banks is a nice PG prospect and can hold his own on D so it's not a bad move IMO.

For Boston:

Kandi v Blount - they get an expiring contract and open up time for Jefferson and Perkins. When the only good thing you can say about a player is "he's an expiring contract" you know the guy sucks.

Wally v Davis - they get a White guy to stroke jumpers and he should compliment Pierce in their offense. He costs a bundle but they because they got Kandi it's OK.

Reed v Jones - who gives a fuck?

Future first v Banks and 2 seconds - Ainge must think that this pick brings them a nice prospect because he just gave McHale potentially 3 prospects.

Not a smart move by Ainge IMO.

The picks, Banks and Davis being a better fit swings this Minny's way IMO.

Now, if Ainge ends up with a quality player because of that pick (he has drafted well) then it ends up being fine for the Celtics.

If Banks or even one of those seconds ends up being a quality player then Minny wins big.

NOTE: When I say quality player I mean rotation level - not All-Star or something awesome.

Nice analysis, P, as always.

Would it be fair/logical, in your opinion, to consider that Blount could be a negative for the TWolves if it means that they possibly could have added a "better" big man in the offseason after Kandi's deal expires, or is that a reach?

Would it be fair/logical, in your opinion, to consider that Blount could be a negative for the TWolves if it means that they possibly could have added a "better" big man in the offseason after Kandi's deal expires, or is that a reach?

No. They are capped out regardless. They'd be better off with the MLE on a big man. They could still do that anyway, as KG could slide to SF.

Post a list of free agent big men and pick out the ones Minny could have got with the MLE that are better than Blount.

If there are a reasonable amount of names on that list then yes it's fair/logical to consider that aspect of the trade a negative for the Wolves.

Took a look myself and here's a list:

Nene (Restricted)

Joel Przybilla

Melvin Ely (Restricted)

Chris Wilcox (Restricted)

Alonzo Mourning

Nazr Mohammed

Tony Battie

Lorenzen Wright

Kelvin Cato

Francisco Elson

Antonio Davis

DJ Mbenga

Mario Kasun

Jake Voskuhl

Loren Woods

(left the spaces so you could quote the list and give your thought GD)

doesn't matter since they'd have less than the MLE anyway even if the renounced Kandi.

Of course, if any of these guys are a)better than Blount or b)signable with the MLE is another topic altogether:

Melvin Ely *R*
Francisco Elson *R*
Nene Hilario *R*
Chris Wilcox *R*
Lorenzen Wright
Alonzo Mourning
Ervin Johnson
Jackie Butler *R*
Antonio Davis
Tony Battie
Kelvin Cato
Joel Przybilla
Nazr Mohammed
Reggie Evans
Loren Woods
Jarron Collins
Greg Ostertag

GD - I trust your judgement.

Pick out 5 guys that you think:

a) would sign with Minny for the MLE or less

b) you think are better than Blount

If you can honestly find those 5 guys than I'll say it's fair to assume that Minny could have kept Wally, their first and just signed a big in the off-season.

But can you find 5?

Ely and Elson are 2 that could come at a reasonable price (either MLE or less and not matched) and it could be argued that both are better than Blount.

So now you just have to find 3.

Can you?

They wouldn't need 5, they would only need one.

The point is moot.

http://blog9.worldmagblog.com/blog9/archives/47_rev-jesse-jackson.jpg


also I wonder if anybody ever gets any of my old SNL references

Um, GD the point of naming 5 is to come up with "fall back" positions in case those guys signed elsewhere.

If they didn't get Blount they're looking for a big.

If there is only 2 or 3 available that are better it's not that bad.

If there is 5 or 6 then obviously they had plenty of options.

Besides, I think that list just adds more to my side of the debate.

Their choices in free agency were pretty shitty.

Here's Ainge's spin on the deal:

"One Move Away" from contending with the powers of the Eastern Conference? LMAO

http://celticsblog.net/blog/?p=1400


One Move Away?

Danny Ainge stated on the radio yesterday that he believes the recent trade was a “sideways move” in terms of talent and that he believes Wally Szczerbiack will be a better fit for Paul Pierce than Ricky Davis was. He went on to say that the deal prepares the roster for a future potential moves and he believes this team is only “one move away” from contending with the powers of the Eastern Conference. Does that sound like a man ready to rest on his laurels?

He went on to talk about the core guys and dropped hints that he was having conversations with other teams. It sounded like something could happen as early as the trade deadline or perhaps over the summer. Overall it sounds like he has an idea of what he’s looking to do and has teams willing to talk.

So what could it be? What is that “one move” that could put us back in contention? It sounds like something big and it sounds like Danny is willing to trade draft picks and younger players to get the job done. What he won’t do (by all accounts) is trade Paul Pierce. He has stated on many occasions that nobody is untouchable, but at least at this deadline it sounds like it would take a monumental deal to move Paul or the young core guys he loves. Included in that core group are Delonte West, Al Jefferson, and Kendrick Perkins. All three have shown enough promise this year to hint at greater things in the future.

Notably absent from that list is Gerald Green. Danny heaps praises on him, but never talks about him as a core guy. It would seem that if no good deal comes around, Danny would be content letting him develop over the next 2 to 3 years. However, he might decide that the team (especially Paul Pierce) would be better off getting a good return for him in a trade right now.

Ainge has other chips to offer in trades as well. Namely several first round draft picks over the next 3 years. He also has contracts that he can use to match salaries in a trade. On the low end, there are guys like Brian Scalabrine and Dan Dickau. On the high side, there is Raef LaFrentz’s huge contract. In a one-for-one deal, Danny can use Olowokandi’s $5.9M dollar expiring deal.

So what does that buy this team? Would Gerald Green, a pick or two, and matching salaries snag an all star to put next to Paul and Wally? That is the question that has Celtics fans buzzing this morning.

Fans are dreaming of big ticket names like Allen Iverson, Kevin Garnett, Jermaine O’Neal, and rising star Chris Bosh. Personally I think any of those names would be a reach without including Paul Pierce. Even if that isn’t the case, the teams would have to be desperate for a change. Typically changes like that don’t often happen during the season without a Vince Carter type Operation Shutdown.

Still, there are some big ticket names on the market with decreased price tags. Guys like Steve Francis, Kenyon Martin, and Carlos Boozer all have struggled (to different degrees) on their new teams and those names turn people’s heads. You should also consider the next tier down, including players like Al Harrington, Nene, and Andre Miller.

Don’t forget about the “Danny guys” that have been in the league a few years and are just on the verge of breaking out. Ainge has watched the likes of Shaun Livingston, Robert Swift, and Travis Outlaw with great interest over the years.

On the other hand, it could be a player that we haven’t even heard in trade talks yet. I don’t recall hearing Wally’s name in trade banter (this year) until just before the trade went down.

One way or another, it doesn’t sound like Dealer Danny is done making moves. He is going to get criticism for treating this roster like a fantasy team. There is a lot to be said for letting young talent develop and creating a stable environment for the team to gel together. However, when that team is fit badly from the start, as it was early this year, then the only choice is to move the pieces around and make something better.

Celtics fans are ready to start competing again. We realize we are not there yet, and I think most understand that further changes are necessary. Lets just hope that Danny Ainge is right and that we really are “one move away.”

I actually agree with his assesment of Wally. I think he's a good compliment to PP. If he decides to move PP though, he made it worse with that deal. If he keeps PP I think Wally fits with him. He still lost a servicable big man though.