Tayshaun Prince:

40 minutes

4 points

2 assists

1 rebound

Thanks for making your teammates do all the work, Tay. Thanks a lot.

He shows up and plays, Pistons win by 10 in regulation and rest their starters for Friday night.

Way to pass up wide open looks as the shot clock is winding down, causing your team not to get any points, and leading to easy baskets on the other end.

Boo.

BTW: Go Pistons. Nice to see Rip and CB pick up for Tay's MASSIVE slack.

Can we trade Tayshaun for a Taco or something? This is getting ridiculous. If this 10 point, crap shooting, 3-4 rebound, mediocre defense guy is the Tayshaun of the future we are going to be screwed with that contract he has.

Everyone has off nights

Since signing his massive contract, Tayshaun is now averaging less points per game, less assists per game, less rebounds per game, less blocks per game, less steals per game, a lower f/t %, and a lower f/g %, all in just 1 less minute per game.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?statsId=3621

And we thought it would be Rasheed that started to slack off once he got a new contract.

I know he made a block on Reggie that many others could not make, but would other sfs have scored more points and made that block not necessary?

At this pace, he's making himself expendable and making it look like there would be little to no drop-off if Carlos Delfino continued to develop and eventually replaced Tay as the starter.

So, is it time to start a "trade Tay to clear cap space for Ben" thread?

Hey mods. Get off your asses and split this fucker into two threads - the Tay is sucking thread, and the game thread.

So, is it time to start a "trade Tay to clear cap space for Ben" thread?

I think we need a "should Taymelo change his screenname?" thread first.

Are you listening to yourself?

You think we should trade Tayshaun?

Really?

Not only would that be silly, IMO, but there is ZERO chance of it happening after Joe just signed him to an extension.

ZERO.

So, is it time to start a "trade Tay to clear cap space for Ben" thread?

I think we need a "should Taymelo change his screenname?" thread first.

Are you listening to yourself?

You think we should trade Tayshaun?

Really?

Not only would that be silly, IMO, but there is ZERO chance of it happening after Joe just signed him to an extension.

ZERO.

Are you saying that no one would pay that amount, or that Joe is committed to him?

Sorry, I'm saying there is no way Joe will deal him.

That's my opinion, at least.

I agree. What could you possibly get for Tay? You'd have to get a SF back to start with. And who would be trading a SF if they wanted Tay? Any SF that is a solid all around player makes just as much as Tay will anyway.

If money becomes a problem, Darko will be traded for an expiring plus a pick. If that fails, Arroyo and lastly Dyess would be traded for similar packages. The starting 5 will not be broken up.

I think his production is just a product of RIP and Billups being that good. What do you expect, every player to have career numbers? Dyess has struggled, Sheed has struggled...everything goes in cycles. The great thing about this team is that guys pick each other up. Eventually Tay will win us some games. Do you expect Tay to shoot a ton when RIP is on fire like that?

Everyone has off nights

And that's fine. But Tayshaun is having an off year. He has really only played very well in 3-4 games all year. I can deal with him not scoring a ton all the time, but these games where he gets like 1 rebound and shoots an awful percentage are becoming the norm. Even more frustrating when the 2 guys behind him are outproducing him in 1/3 the minutes.

Alright, who is going to be the first motherfucker to suggest that we trade Tay to the Kings for Nutboy?

He'd love our offense.

As to suggestions that he has to be traded for a s/f - see my argument that Delfino gives us more than Tay this year, and could replace him in the starting lineup. He's more aggressive on defense, more aggressive on the boards, and more aggressive on offense. He's also been more aggressive in blocking shots lately. He also appears to have more upside, because he gets better every game, while Tay is the same Tay he was in his rookie year.

As to suggestions that his production is a byproduct of Billups/Rip playing well, I disagree. My biggest problem is not that he should demand to take the ball away from Rip/CB, its that when they get the ball to him wide open with 5 seconds left on the clock, he passes up the shot, waits for the clock to wind down, and then passes the ball to someone else.

When Arroyo does that shit, he's crucified - yet with Tay its just a "byproduct of the offense". Fuck that. I'm not suggesting he demand the ball more. I'm suggesting he shoot the ball when he gets it, and stop looking scared out there.

Swat this thread.

Swat this thread.

This thread is not swat material. There is a decent argument to be made on both sides, and legitimate rationale to use on both sides.

As to suggestions that his production is a byproduct of Billups/Rip playing well, I disagree. My biggest problem is not that he should demand to take the ball away from Rip/CB, its that when they get the ball to him wide open with 5 seconds left on the clock, he passes up the shot, waits for the clock to wind down, and then passes the ball to someone else.


I saw that a couple times last night. I think he felt he could take it to the basket and got cut off. Then he didn't know what to do. I'm not sure why he's hesitating, but that is fixable. He's not bricking shots, he just needs to be told he has the green light to take those open shots. I'd like to see Flip start post feeding him early in some games to get him going. then he'll get back on track.

He also appears to have more upside, because he gets better every game, while Tay is the same Tay he was in his rookie year.

He shut down McGrady in his rookie year.

Tay's ppg dropping is not a big deal with the way Rip and Chaucney are playing. But the fact his D has been weak, he isn't crashing the board, getting blocks, steals or assists is annoying as fuck. The guy is tooo passive. He needs to be more aggressive.

And I seriously doubt that we trade Tay. Nobody is going to give us as good or better SF for him.

When Arroyo does that shit, he's crucified - yet with Tay its just a "byproduct of the offense". Fuck that. I'm not suggesting he demand the ball more. I'm suggesting he shoot the ball when he gets it, and stop looking scared out there.

The problem with this arguement is that Arroyo has NEVER been good here. How do we know he ever will be? Tay has been, so we can have faith he will turn it around. Having faith in Arroyo is like having faith in Darko. We've never seen consistancy, so how can we expect it? We ca expect Tay to get better though.

damn arroyo played very well last nite, especially on defense. yet i see people never notice these things.

Im just saying an IF. If Tay gets traded, i want Gerald Wallace. But that's an if and most likely wont happen.

Sorry Taymelo but the starting 5 wont be broken up until something drastic happens.

Wouldn't the first course of action be to cut his minutes anyway? If Delfino is outplaying him, why not sub him in more for Tay? Then perhaps Tay will eventually get out of his funk.

Wouldn't the first course of action be to cut his minutes anyway? If Delfino is outplaying him, why not sub him in more for Tay? Then perhaps Tay will eventually get out of his funk.

Oh no you dident!

Lookout, common sense has just crept into this thread.

I think Chucky Atkins can play the 3.

Taymelo = Yoko.

LB called plays especially for Tayshaun Prince and he had to take the shot, under Flip's offense anybody can take the shot if it is there, but should pass it to find the mismatch or the open man - this gives Tay the out to pass the ball because he lacks confidence in his game.

Then again he did play 40 minutes in Minnesota the night before and I do believe he is having issues with his knees, eventhough it's not being reported.

I posted this in the Bucks/Pistons game thread. I think it's applicable here:

I believe there's something physically wrong with Tayshaun. He's been inconsistent lately and often settles for jump shots as supposed to taking it to the basket. I suspect his knee is ailing him again or something else is wrong with his legs.

His FG% is the worst it's been since his rookie year (by a lot) which can be attributed to taking jumpers vs. higher percentage shots in the paint. That usually equates to leg problems.

I also believe the reason why he didn't play for much of the 4th quarter against Houston (guarding t-mac) was because of an injury, not because Evans was playing well. (I think I even noticed him icing his ankle or shins on the sideline)

Tayshaun needs the all-star break to come quick so that he can use the time to heal.

LB called plays especially for Tayshaun Prince and he had to take the shot, under Flip's offense anybody can take the shot if it is there, but should pass it to find the mismatch or the open man - this gives Tay the out to pass the ball because he lacks confidence in his game.

Then again he did play 40 minutes in Minnesota the night before and I do believe he is having issues with his knees, eventhough it's not being reported.

i tend to agree with the first part of your comment. Tay just isn't assertive enough to shoot, unless the play is specifically designed for him or he's WIDE open.

the injury perspective that you and yargs posted is interesting, too.

but if he was hurt, we could easily have Mo and Delfino play more minutes. it'd be silly for Tay to continue to play hurt.

I agree with a lot of the above comments.

I'm not standing on a soapbox, demanding that the guy be traded. I know I'm being made the poster boy for the trade Tayshaun movement because I'm pissed at his lack of producing anything in any facet of the game lately... but I'm just suggesting that if what he gives us now is all he'll ever give us in the future, then he's vastly overpaid and can easily be replaced by Delfino.

I also agree that the most rational thought and best approach would be to cut his minutes, and let him know why his minutes are being cut, hoping to either get him healthy if he isn't, and/or to light a fire under his skinny ass.

Larry Brown,Tay-Melo,Ben Stein, Delfino

Its all a big Jewish-Argentinan conspiracy


-UncleCliffy

Delfino is Jewish?



Prince always falls off before all star time. I think he gets worn down easier than other players because of his slender build. Too bad Flip didnt discover Delfino untill about a 3 or 4 weeks ago.

I been saying it since day one
...
tay sucks

I wasn't going to go here, but I will.

I think 6th man is the ideal place for Tay, but I don't think Delfino or Evans should start.

As a 6th man, Tay can feel less hesitant to participate in the offense, and I bet he would flourish.

So you can probably guess what I'm advocating.

http://wtfdetroit.com/viewtopic.php?t=98

You wanna trade Tay for Darko?

You wanna trade Tay for Darko?

Exactly.




Glenn

You guys think the Pistons would be as good or better with someone else at SF?

Pistons 35-5, but fans are unhappy because our SF is not playing up to what he did the year before, even though he is injured. If you do not see the injury, then you need to stay off the crack and watch again. He is not taking his man to the basket and that is hurting his scoring and the injury is hurting him on D too.

Art

If he is injured, then Flip Saunders if fucking up by not resting him more. I mean, 40 minutes, on the 2nd leg of a back to back, for somebody who's supposed injured??? Granted though, Delfino was out. I think we'd be fine if you gave Delfino an extra 5 minutes from Tay's minutes.

You guys think the Pistons would be as good or better with someone else at SF?

Pistons 35-5, but fans are unhappy because our SF is not playing up to what he did the year before, even though he is injured. If you do not see the injury, then you need to stay off the crack and watch again. He is not taking his man to the basket and that is hurting his scoring and the injury is hurting him on D too.

Art

Art:

You now, more than anyone, have pulled out the injury card on Tay, and even gone as far as to suggest that if we "do not see the injury, then we need to stay off the crack and watch again".

So my question to you is this:

What is the injury and when did it happen?

Either you know and just aren't telling us, or your post was simply full of shit.

I been saying it since day one
...
Tay sucks
...
And of course I was jus joking when I said that
...
Tay always go through his droughts
...
Last year right before the break, he had a HORRIBLE drought that we all were talking bout, yall dont remember that? Then everyone thought he'll improve after the break
...
Maybe it'll happen every year

They are very similar.

http://www.sportsline.com/nba/players/player/gamelogs/2005/307853

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/princta01_2005.html

I live in Kentucky and they still worship Tay down here. There are whispers of him not being 100%, not exactly sure, but his play sure makes one think that he is not 100% and the last 2-3 games I have seen makes me think he has something wrong.

He just has not been aggressive taking his man down low. He doesnt look as confident out there as usual.

I dont watch him as much as most of you, thus I was reading between the lines on what some have been saying on him not being as aggressive, as well as what I have been seeing the limited times I have seen him lately.

I have no 100% concrete evidence, just whispers as I stated and what I have seen. Could I be wrong, sure I could, but crack isnt a bad thing unless you got kids to feed.


Art

You guys think the Pistons would be as good or better with someone else at SF?

Pistons 35-5, but fans are unhappy because our SF is not playing up to what he did the year before, even though he is injured. If you do not see the injury, then you need to stay off the crack and watch again. He is not taking his man to the basket and that is hurting his scoring and the injury is hurting him on D too.

Art

Art:

You now, more than anyone, have pulled out the injury card on Tay, and even gone as far as to suggest that if we "do not see the injury, then we need to stay off the crack and watch again".

So my question to you is this:

What is the injury and when did it happen?

Either you know and just aren't telling us, or your post was simply full of shit.


I do know that Tayshaun had knee problems in pre-season and it led to him getting off to a relatively slow start and nothing was ever said that he was over these problems entirely.

In the Houston game I do know I spotted Tayshaun icing his leg in the 4th quarter as Me-Mac continued to torch the pistons and evans played key 4th quarter minutes. Don't know if it was the knee (it looked more like his shins or ankle) but I did find it funny that he wasn't out there against Me-Mac.

This in combination with him always settling for the jump shot (his 3-point shot is improving, by the way) and rarely taking the initiative to drive to the basket like he's done in the past (you don't shoot 49% from the field last year by taking a majority of your shots away from the basket) leads me to believe that there may be something wrong with him physically.

Obviously it's not exceptionally serious or they wouldn't play him but I do notice a change in his game that can potentially be attributed to injury.

As for Flip playing all the starters 40+ minutes last night (which included tayshaun), well, I'll reserve judgment until the second half of the year. There's no reason to do that during the regular season.

Am I the only one who remembers that in the last 2 or 3 years Prince has always fallen off before he all star break? He wears down much faster than the other starters. This isnt new.

Am I the only one who remembers that in the last 2 or 3 years Prince has always fallen off before he all star break? He wears down much faster than the other starters. This isnt new.

Yes you are the only one.



I been saying it since day one
...
Tay sucks
...
And of course I was jus joking when I said that
...
Tay always go through his droughts
...
Last year right before the break, he had a HORRIBLE drought that we all were talking bout, yall dont remember that? Then everyone thought he'll improve after the break
...
Maybe it'll happen every year

You lie. Bigx3Chriss agrees with me!!!!!

GD, like you there were times I thought that Tay would be a great 6 man for this team, better than a starter. Tay started to erase those doubts last year leading up to and including after the contract he signed. He now appears to have reverted back to his shy self.

I think if this team really needed him to step up he would. I think some need to understand Tay's character and demeanor to understand the player. Tay will never be the type of player that leaves it all on the court. Tay can do that at times but too often his shy character allows him to sit back in his shell and do something when called upon.

I think your past suggestion, if I was reading it correctly, was to package Darko+DelFiono for Shane Battier? If that's the case I would not mind it. The problem however is you have 2 SF that can start, somewhere there will be a problem, chemistry issue or other. (not even sure if that was your suggestion).

At this point Dumars is not going to do anything to this lineup. The best case here is for Flip to notice what's going on and talk with Tay. Tay has shown in the past that he can step it up when asked.

Swat this thread.I agree. Tayshaun haters = bored.

damn arroyo played very well last nite, especially on defense. yet i see people never notice these things.

I noticed, but I won't mention it until he does it 3 games in a row. Next game he's just going to have a 2 assists 3 TO game in 8 minutes of play that will make me forget he was very solid last night. He's done so this entire season...which is really his problem.

I wasn't going to go here, but I will.

I think 6th man is the ideal place for Tay, but I don't think Delfino or Evans should start.

As a 6th man, Tay can feel less hesitant to participate in the offense, and I bet he would flourish.

So you can probably guess what I'm advocating.

http://wtfdetroit.com/viewtopic.php?t=98

For all that "scratch" you best be advocating that we hypnotize him to think he's the 6th man while he's actually starting. So he can do all of that "flourishing" for the 36mins a night that we need him. We definitely can't afford to have a future 10mil man on the bench.

They are very similar.

http://www.sportsline.com/nba/players/player/gamelogs/2005/307853

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/princta01_2005.html

The difference is that Tayshaun was rebounding and doing the little things last year during his slump. This year he just isn't doing ANYTHING.

Swat this thread.I agree. Tayshaun haters = bored.

It's unbelievable what I am reading in this thread. Tayshaun has had a slight drop in most statistical category's but not a drastic drop in anything. People always call for him to be more assertive but he is what he is and if you guys haven't figured that out by now, I don't know what to tell you.

The second half of last year, we needed Tay to be more agressive and he was. (He also wore down in the playoffs)

I would bet that Tay's numbers right now are higher than they were at this time last year.

damn arroyo played very well last nite, especially on defense. yet i see people never notice these things.

I noticed, but I won't mention it until he does it 3 games in a row. Next game he's just going to have a 2 assists 3 TO game in 8 minutes of play that will make me forget he was very solid last night. He's done so this entire season...which is really his problem.
since when? he's actually been decent in every game except one since he got back from suspension IMO

Blossoming.

The difference is that Tayshaun was rebounding and doing the little things last year during his slump. This year he just isn't doing ANYTHING.

Here are his career numbers:

YR FG% 3P% FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS
03-04 .467 .363 .766 0.8 0.8 1.5 1.8 1.1 3.6 4.7 2.3 10.3
04-05 .487 .341 .807 0.7 0.9 1.6 2.0 1.6 3.7 5.3 3.0 14.7
05-06 .449 .364 .770 0.5 0.4 1.2 1.3 1.3 3.1 4.4 2.3 14.1

So he is shooting slightly worse, but better from 3 point range...has a half steal, block, and assist less a game, a rebound less a game and a half point less a game.

Time to panic!

BTW, here are his pre and post all star numbers last year:

------------ FG% 3P% FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS
Pre All-Star 48.704 .359 77.778 0.69 1.00 1.7 2.2 1.5 3.8 5.3 3.0 13.1
Post All-Star 48.700 .317 83.846 0.68 0.65 1.6 1.6 1.8 3.5 5.3 3.0 17.4

As you can see, he's having a better season this year than last year at this time.

Here are his career numbers:

YR FG% 3P% FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS
03-04 .467 .363 .766 0.8 0.8 1.5 1.8 1.1 3.6 4.7 2.3 10.3
04-05 .487 .341 .807 0.7 0.9 1.6 2.0 1.6 3.7 5.3 3.0 14.7
05-06 .449 .364 .770 0.5 0.4 1.2 1.3 1.3 3.1 4.4 2.3 14.1

So he is shooting slightly worse, but better from 3 point range...has a half steal, block, and assist less a game, a rebound less a game and a half point less a game.

Time to panic!

BTW, here are his pre and post all star numbers last year:

------------ FG% 3P% FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS
Pre All-Star 48.704 .359 77.778 0.69 1.00 1.7 2.2 1.5 3.8 5.3 3.0 13.1
Post All-Star 48.700 .317 83.846 0.68 0.65 1.6 1.6 1.8 3.5 5.3 3.0 17.4

As you can see, he's having a better season this year than last year at this time.

Gee.

Sorry if I'm simply holding people to their claims of his tremendous upside, that he was only in his 3rd year last year, that he would get better, that he would get more aggressive, that his numbers would go up, etc., as he got older and became more of a seasoned veteran.

I guess I should be happy he's taken only a slight step backwards after people kept saying he was "blossoming" and would take a big step forward.

Fuck that. I apologize for nothing. You should all rot in hell. I'm right and you're wrong. Tayshaun is having a let down year. [smilie=angryfire.g:

You lie. Bigx3Chriss agrees with me!!!!!

LOL


If anyone hasn't noticed. I am totally playing around in this thread.

15 and 7 today for Tayshaun.

Is that doing nothing?

Prince is owning Taymelo ever since he made this thread.



Name Min FG 3Pt FT Reb Ast TO Stl Blk PF Pts
Prince 34 7-14 2-4 3-4 3 6 3 2 0 2 19

I'm sure Tay couldn't be happier.
His name is TAY-Melo and was Tayshaun_Melocic.
I think that he's proud of half of himself.
Unfortunately his other half is never included.

Prince is owning Taymelo ever since he made this thread.



Name Min FG 3Pt FT Reb Ast TO Stl Blk PF Pts
Prince 34 7-14 2-4 3-4 3 6 3 2 0 2 19



[smilie=applause.gi:

Tayshaun > TayMelo

Due to lack of variety in his life, a monkey in the zoo (http://www.collegehumor.com/movies/1601606/) will masturbate up to thirty times a day. We should be thankful that piston fans enduring the torture of a 37-5 start don't do anything worse than start a "trade Tayshaun" movement.

Watch how Taymelo spins this.

I'll put my money on the "I was only doing my part to motivate him, and it worked, props to me"-angle.

BUMP....

Another NJ game, another no show by Tay. Between what he and Sheed did tonight, there was nothing that Chauncey could do.

Tayshaun doesn't show up against NJ. RJ OWNS him.

Tay pissed me off so bad tonight. He was fucking worthless. Why the fuck didnt he put Delfino in the game more?

Well guess what, we are going to see better basketball from Tayshaun than ever before in the second half of the year. When the all-star voting is all said and done, the most likely scenario is that Ben, Chauncey, Rip, and Sheed all go to the all-star game. Tayshaun is going to get left out. The coaches and players will say he is the least important part of the starting 5. He will have a massive chip on his shoulder that the 4 guys he's been playing with the past 2-3 years all get to go, but he gets to stay home. We will see him get aggressive. And when Tayshaun gets aggressive, look out! This is the scenario that I want to happen. Of course, I'd rather have Tay be there, but he has to beat out some damn good forwards to get the honor.

Prince is owning Taymelo ever since he made this thread.



Name Min FG 3Pt FT Reb Ast TO Stl Blk PF Pts
Prince 34 7-14 2-4 3-4 3 6 3 2 0 2 19


Yet more proof that WTFDetroit is the #1 favorite site of our Detroit Pistons! [smilie=angel.gif]

Watch how Taymelo spins this.

I'll put my money on the "I was only doing my part to motivate him, and it worked, props to me"-angle.

Eh.

I'm not impressed.

That's pretty much the only angle to play at this point.
[smilie=anxious.gif]

Well guess what, we are going to see better basketball from Tayshaun than ever before in the second half of the year.

He will have a massive chip on his shoulder that the 4 guys he's been playing with the past 2-3 years all get to go, but he gets to stay home. We will see him get aggressive. And when Tayshaun gets aggressive, look out!

Dude, did RGM rot your brain or something?

If he gets pissed because the other starters went to the ASG then wouldn't that kind of go against this "selfless" attitude our guys are supposed to have?

Tayshaun needs to get more selfish out there in my opinion. No he isn't going to start hoisting 25 shots per contest. But an aggressive Tayshaun makes the Pistons that much better.

I just don't think he has it in him yet.

Maybe in a year or 2 when he's got a bigger role in the offense and when he finally realises he can kick ass but not now.

He's too busy bowing down to Sheed, Rip and Chauncey. As time goes by that will change though

We saw flashes for about a 1 month stretch last season where he was averaging around 20 per contest. I think he can get back to that.

And to answer the main point of this entire thread, that is why Tay's stats are worse than last year. I think at this point he is playing better than last year. But that month and a half or so stretch where he started playing like a superstar really boosted his stats.