Today's games:

Detroit @ New York, 8:00 pm.

LA Lakers at Sacramento, 10:30 pm.

Daily Line:

Detroit 5 NEW YORK
Lakers 5 SACRAMENTO

Tayshaun's gonna have a career high tonight

Didn't you say that about the Hawk game?

The line is 5? Easy money there.

Didn't you say that about the Hawk game?

The line is 5? Easy money there.
...
LOL, Silly Billy
...
I always say that, It 1st started when we went on a 12/13 game winning streak last year
...
The game I didnt say it we lost
...
Then the same thing happened we we lost our 8 game winning streak last year also

Say what you want about Kobe's number of shots, the Lakers can't do shit without him.

He has 19 of the Lakers 26 points.

Lakers up 26-21 over the Kings.

for some reason im flashing back to kobe being socked in the mouth by childs. has he ever won a fight that didnt involve him hitting somebody who was defenseless? juss curious.

either way the kings are playing more and more like a team now. i predict a win but a close game because of their lack of defense perimeter players like the kobmeister

LOL@Kobe getting mad because of a hard foul and the kings bench laughing at him.

LOL@Kobe losing his mind because he didnt touch the ball for two consecutive offensive plays. :lol:

Kwame Brown is absolute garbage.

Odom with the offensive foul. Guess that's why Kobe doesn't want to give up the ball.

Odom with the offensive foul. Guess that's why Kobe doesn't want to give up the ball.
what ballhogger hasnt made that excuse?LOL@ smush's face when kobe was trynna to give him advice.

Brad Miller!

damn brad miller with the rick smits whiteboy center 3 pointer to tie the game. :D
Kobe throwing a fit over not getting the last shot. :?

With the way that play was unfolding, I thought they were gonna run out of play clock. But somehow got off a shot.

Did you see the look Kobe gave Odom after that last shot?

LOL@Kwame being the goat.

anyone else think that Kobe shoots 100% of the shots in OT? :P

Odom just fouled out.

anyone else think that Kobe shoots 100% of the shots in OT? :P

He missed his first shot already, so I don't think that's possible.

Edit: Never mind. I thought you meant FG%

Hell of a game!

anyone else think that Kobe shoots 100% of the shots in OT? :P

He missed his first shot already, so I don't think that's possible.

not makes them, just that he shoots them all......nevermind, George just shot one :(

Kobe is such a douche-bag.

Kobe shoots over the triple team!

Just like that Kings are up 7 points.

46 Points
9 Boards
4 Assists
1 Steal

15-31 FG
3-9 3's
13-13 FT's


He's fuckin ballin though.

That last shot by Kobe just reminded me of when the Pistons raped the Lakers for the 'Chip.

Great shot Kobe!

Now THAT was a bad shot. OH MY GOD.

:D

46 Points
9 Boards
4 Assists
1 Steal

15-31 FG
3-9 3's
13-13 FT's


He's fuckin ballin though.

Let Rip shoot 31 times in a game and then get back to me.

Kenny Thomas is taking over for the Kings. Kenny Thomas with his first career triple double.


Kobe is 1-5 in OT. Only one of those shots was uncontested.

Let Rip shoot 31 times in a game and then get back to me.Oh no.


Rip's better than Kobe now? I know you hate him,
but come on NoQ. You know better than that homie.

Mike Bibby and Chauncey Billups have got to be the best at drawing the foul on the dribble, lol.

Game Over.

Kings win 118 - 109.

Let Rip shoot 31 times in a game and then get back to me.Oh no.


Rip's better than Kobe now? I know you hate him,
but come on NoQ. You know better than that homie.

Definitely not more talented.

More efficient? Fuck yeah.

Motherfucker has to shoot 30+ times to get 45-50 points. And he still takes retarded ass shots like he just did. Fuck a Kobe, Laker's can have him, his scoring title, his selfishness, and a first round Playoff exit (if they even make it there.)

Seriosuly, at Rip's FG% this year, what do you think would happen if he shot 31 times?

It's not my fault Kobe takes crazy ass retarded leaning sideways fadeway shots and makes them. I'd be more impressed with him shooting normal shots and hitting 50%

Let Rip shoot 31 times in a game and then get back to me.Oh no.


Rip's better than Kobe now? I know you hate him,
but come on NoQ. You know better than that homie.

Kobe's a pimp. He certainly not the reason the Lakers lost this game.

The more you shoot, the more you miss. I don't care who you are.

Kobe, Stackhouse, McGrady on the Magic, Iverson, Arenas, Baron...

In their careers, they've all had to take the bulk of
their team's shots. They ended up with bad a FG %.

You have to imagine that double and even triple teams come and you either
pass or force a shot.When you're "the man" you usually force shit.

That's the way it goes man. Rip would have a bad FG % if he had to shoot
that often with 2 guys on him and creating off the dribble all night.
In fact, it'd probably be worse than Kobe's. Make sense? Or do you at least
see where I'm coming from?

The more you shoot, the more you miss. I don't care who you are.

Kobe, Stackhouse, McGrady on the Magic, Iverson, Arenas, Baron...

In their careers, they've all had to take the bulk of
their team's shots. They ended up with bad a FG %.

You have to imagine that double and even triple teams come and you either
pass or force a shot.When you're "the man" you usually force shit.

That's the way it goes man. Rip would have a bad FG % if he had to shoot
that often with 2 guys on him and creating off the dribble all night.
In fact, it'd probably be worse than Kobe's. Make sense? Or do you at least
see where I'm coming from?

I see where you're coming from. But the thing that gets to me is; just because Kobe is an amazing talent doesn't make him a great player. His stats are beyond inflated because of the number of fucking shots he jacks up. I love the "he has no help" excuse. He has some good players on that team. And you know what? "great" players make those "role-players" look good. The same reasons why MJ made Steve Kerr look servicable, Jason Kidd made K-Mart look like he desrved a max contract (well, not to me. I'm still LMAO at that one). My point is that he's a great scorer, great clutch player, and nothing more.

You telling me Nique couldn't put up Kobe's offensive numbers on less shots?

Ok I agree with whatever your post said because of the Nique props.

I noticed the name without reading anything but the last line.
I'm sure it's a good post. We usually agree on things for the most part.
Have a good night. Bed time.

Ok I agree with whatever your post said because of the Nique props.

I noticed the name without reading anything but the last line.
I'm sure it's a good post. We usually agree on things for the most part.
Have a good night. Bed time.

Hahahaha. From now on I'm gonna use that everytime we debate or argue.

"Yeah? Well, Nique would've drank your last beer too."

like NQ said, the Fakers can have him.

Kobe Bryant is the best player that I would never want on my team.

Kobe Bryant is the best player that I would never want on my team.

Amen to that.


As good as he is, he doesn't make players around him better.

MOLA1 is a jackass but Dominique Wilkens fucking rules!!!

Kobe Bryant is the best player that I would never want on my team.

As much as I think that.... Could you imagine if he had Chauncey, Rip, Sheed, and Ben around him? You couldn't triple team him like most teams do late in the game. I still think he'd pass if he had reliable teammates. But when you've got Smush, Devean, Kwame, Mihm, Walton, and Odom as your core of players teams can just load up on him. None of those guys have a reliable jumpshot.

As much as I think that.... Could you imagine if he had Chauncey, Rip, Sheed, and Ben around him? You couldn't triple team him like most teams do late in the game. I still think he'd pass if he had reliable teammates. But when you've got Smush, Devean, Kwame, Mihm, Walton, and Odom as your core of players teams can just load up on him. None of those guys have a reliable jumpshot.

He had Shaq and he didn't pass.

Next.

He had Shaq and he didn't pass.

Next.

Now, I'm no Kobe/Laker fan, but didn't they win 3 championships together? Also, consider that the year he really stopped passing a whole lot to Shaq was when Shaq started his "falling off" routine in the 4th quarter. Shaq simply can't dominant late games like he used to. Wade is very unselfish and he does the same exact thing. Shaq averaged quite a few more points in the Lakers/Pistons series than he did in the Heat/Pistons series from what I remember. Why doesn't Wade get the same knock against him?

Also, I tend to think that Kobe started taking the success for granted for a while which is why he became a bit selfish. At this point I think he'd definately trade off shots for wins. The problem is that Kobe shots generally = wins for the Lakers at this point. The rest of that team really can't make a bucket to save their lives. Kobe needs to go off for them to win.

Again, I actually don't like Kobe, but he has a ton of talent, and drive to win. So I tend to think he would pass the ball if he had some teammates who could hit shots.

Check out this article: http://www.82games.com/pelton13.htm Basically, it says that when Kobe is on the floor for the Lakers they score 22 more points per 100 possessions than they do with him off the floor. That pretty much proves what he's working with.

46 Points
9 Boards
4 Assists
1 Steal

15-31 FG
3-9 3's
13-13 FT's


He's fuckin ballin though.

Let Rip shoot 31 times in a game and then get back to me.LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLL LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

FP22, i understand what you're trying to say. but its not just kobe's game that makes him selfish. Actually its his jealous fits when someone else gets the ball, his bitching about not getting the ball enough, and his quickness to measure his sucess by how much he was a part of the team's sucess.

i wouldn't ever want his antics on our team. shaq could tolerate it, but do you think kobe wouldnt try to ride ben for missing free throws or tell cbill "why'd you take that early 3 pointer when i was in the post waiting for a pass". naw i dont think we need him at all.

i wouldn't ever want his antics on our team. shaq could tolerate it, but do you think kobe wouldnt try to ride ben for missing free throws or tell cbill "why'd you take that early 3 pointer when i was in the post waiting for a pass". naw i dont think we need him at all.

Because the Lakers are 0-8 when he (Odom) takes 15 or more shots. :lol:

As much as I think that.... Could you imagine if he had Chauncey, Rip, Sheed, and Ben around him? You couldn't triple team him like most teams do late in the game. I still think he'd pass if he had reliable teammates. But when you've got Smush, Devean, Kwame, Mihm, Walton, and Odom as your core of players teams can just load up on him. None of those guys have a reliable jumpshot.

He had Shaq and he didn't pass.

Next.Are you kidding me? Kobe and Shaq won 3 straight titles together. I don't know wtf you're smoking NoQuarter, but it's gotta have some Kobe-hating chemical in it.

i wouldn't ever want his antics on our team. shaq could tolerate it, but do you think kobe wouldnt try to ride ben for missing free throws or tell cbill "why'd you take that early 3 pointer when i was in the post waiting for a pass". naw i dont think we need him at all.

Because the Lakers are 0-8 when he (Odom) takes 15 or more shots. :lol:
yet post a winning record when odom scores well :wink:

yet post a winning record when odom scores well :wink:

I'm sure, but he's not a guy who should get tons of shots. He should be aggressive when Kobe is out of the game, but he should be setting guys up most of the time. 0-8 when he has 15 attempts is a pretty alarming stat. Also, the guy has missed NUMEROUS three pointers in the clutch this year, and he's not a great three point shooter to begin with. I can understand in this case, but I can also understand Kobe's frustration because Odom had just completely blown the game on the previous play. If you didn't see it they were up 4 with ~30 second, Odom drives the lane like an idiot with about 17 seconds on the shot clock and gets an offensive foul. Leaving 14 minutes wasted on the clock. Bang-bang, Sac hits 2 threes on Kwame's defensive miscues and you've got OT.

I don't like Kobe, but I know the guy just wants to win.

I really hate when people say Shaq didnt need Kobe. If you counted how many times Kobe has bailed out Shaq, u'd be counting all night.

You people are hateful fucking idiots.

As much as I think that.... Could you imagine if he had Chauncey, Rip, Sheed, and Ben around him? You couldn't triple team him like most teams do late in the game. I still think he'd pass if he had reliable teammates. But when you've got Smush, Devean, Kwame, Mihm, Walton, and Odom as your core of players teams can just load up on him. None of those guys have a reliable jumpshot.

He had Shaq and he didn't pass.

Next.Are you kidding me? Kobe and Shaq won 3 straight titles together. I don't know wtf you're smoking NoQuarter, but it's gotta have some Kobe-hating chemical in it.


Shaq would have won those titles if Kobe was there of if he wasnt. You can put almost any starting 2 guard in the NBA next to shaq those 3 years and they still win 3 ships.

And I agree with everything NQ has said. Fuck Kobe. He's a bitch.

Yeah I'm sure shaq would have won 3 titles with Brian Shaw.

And we all know Shaq experienced plenty of success with Hardaway and Dwyane Wade.

Theres a difference between shaq the rookie, Shaq in his prime, and Shaq on the decline.

Saying Shaq could have won those 3 championships without Kobe is like people who never saw Michael Jordan play and now say he won those championships because he "made players better" or passed the rock to Steve Kerr. Morons. No truth at all to that statement.

Jordan never made anyone better. He was the same ball-chucking, stat whore he always was. The difference was that Scottie Pippen developed into one of the greatest all-around players (especially on the defensive end) to ever play the game and the rest of the shots not taken by MJ were taken by scottie and eventually a developing Toni Kukoc (who would have been an all-star if he didn't play with a guy as selfish as Jordan.)

And trust me, that pains me to say because I hate Scottie Pippen and the Chicago Bulls with a burning passion.

No, the bulls didn't win because Steve Kerr could hit a jumpshot or because "jordan makes people better." The simple truth is they had the two best players in the league on their team, a great coach and role-players who understood their role in an expansion-diluted NBA.

And then they added Rodman. The league never had a chance which absolutely made the mid-to-late 90's suck.

Shaq and Kobe won 3 championships because they had the two best players in the league on the same team and shaq was in his prime. It didn't matter who else they had. Now they don't have each other, shaq is getting old and Kobe's teammates suck. They absolutely suck.

You give Kobe another stud to play with and the lakers will be just about unbeatable.

You put Michael Jordan, Steve Kerr and Lamar Odom and nobody on the same team and they go .500 as well.

Well said yargs, well said.

You give Kobe another stud to play with and the lakers will be just about unbeatable.



yeah, because Kobe obviously loves to share the spot light. Kobe already had another stud a long side him, and he hated it. What makes you think if you go out and find anyone that can help Kobe that he would share the ball and the spot light? Odam seemed to do fine in Miami with Wade, yet when he goes to LA with that fuck Kobe, he cant do shit. Sorry, you'll never convince me that Shaq didnt win those 3 titles.

I really hate when people say Shaq didnt need Kobe. If you counted how many times Kobe has bailed out Shaq, u'd be counting all night.

Agreed 100%. Shaq never won a title without Kobe and he will end his career not winning a title without Kobe.

Shaq was forced fed the ball early in the games the past 2 years and he did well. Do people really think that Kobe just decided to not give Shaq the ball later in the games? No, Shaq's fatass doesn't get good position in the 2nd half of games. Ask Dywane Wade.

Why does Kobe take such heat for supposebly not getting Shaq the ball when Miami didn't get him the ball last year?
Where is the criticism of Wade?

People want to act like they wouldn't take Kobe on this team when, in fact, if we were to trade Rip for him, we'd win 70 games+ and would likely be the best team OF ALL TIME.

Theres a difference between shaq the rookie, Shaq in his prime, and Shaq on the decline.

Of Course there is. However, Do you people realize how close that Laker team was to only winning one title?

If You take Kobe off that team and put, say, Richard Hamilton on it than at most they win one title.(Even that is debateable)

The other 2 years, some would say that they should have lost to Sacramento and Portland WITH Kobe Bryant.

Without him, they didn't stand a chance against those 2 teams.

You give Kobe another stud to play with and the lakers will be just about unbeatable.



yeah, because Kobe obviously loves to share the spot light. Kobe already had another stud a long side him, and he hated it. What makes you think if you go out and find anyone that can help Kobe that he would share the ball and the spot light? Odam seemed to do fine in Miami with Wade, yet when he goes to LA with that fuck Kobe, he cant do shit. Sorry, you'll never convince me that Shaq didnt win those 3 titles.

You do realize that, although, Odom's PPG are done a couple from his year in Miami, his overall stats are better? People act as if Kobe can't share the spotlight when he one 3 damn titles in L.A.

You all act as if Shaq won, in spite, of Kobe. Wow he must be better than I thought.

Do people really think that Kobe just decided to not give Shaq the ball later in the games? No, Shaq's fatass doesn't get good position in the 2nd half of games. Ask Dywane Wade.Thank you.

Post entry passes are not easy. In fact they are extremely difficult. Anybody who's played basketball before knows that.

It amazes me how many people knock Kobe still when it became quite apparent against Miami last year that Shaq starts every game strong and finishes weak.

The Lakers didn't lose that series because of Kobe, they lost it because they ran into a buzzsaw of a team. That series wasn't even close.

And Kobe Bryant was replaceable during those three titles? ROFL Kobe Bryant was one of the two biggest reasons they even won those titles.

No other perimeter player in the league has the overall package of offensive domination, determination, the ability to shut down your best perimeter player, and to hit big shots when they count like Kobe does. In close games when Shaq's fatass was too tired and couldn't hit a free throw, Kobe bailed the Lakers out.

And any INTELLIGENT person would trade Rip for Kobe in a heartbeat. Rip is a catch and shoot player who couldn't defend my grandmother, who had a hip replacement. Kobe Bryant can shoot, post players up(unlike Rip), create off the dribble(unlike Rip), draws double and triple teams(unlike Rip), plays great defense(unlike Rip), rebounds(unlike Rip), and is a great passer(again, unlike Rip).

He would pass much more on this team because he has Billups, Dice, Tay, Sheed, Delfino, and Ben to pass to. Who does he have in LA? Odom as a second option is an absolute joke. You are not going to be a successfull team when he's your 2nd best player. And SMUSH PARKER is their third best player!!!! He didn't even last half a season with us!

Who would score on us? We'd be the greatest defensive team ever, and the greatest team in sports history with Kobe.

Greatest team in sports history?

Is that really you George?

Puff and pass

And Kobe Bryant was replaceable during those three titles? ROFL Kobe Bryant was one of the two biggest reasons they even won those titles.

No other perimeter player in the league has the overall package of offensive domination, determination, the ability to shut down your best perimeter player, and to hit big shots when they count like Kobe does. In close games when Shaq's fatass was too tired and couldn't hit a free throw, Kobe bailed the Lakers out.

And any INTELLIGENT person would trade Rip for Kobe in a heartbeat. Rip is a catch and shoot player who couldn't defend my grandmother, who had a hip replacement. Kobe Bryant can shoot, post players up(unlike Rip), create off the dribble(unlike Rip), draws double and triple teams(unlike Rip), plays great defense(unlike Rip), rebounds(unlike Rip), and is a great passer(again, unlike Rip).

He would pass much more on this team because he has Billups, Dice, Tay, Sheed, Delfino, and Ben to pass to. Who does he have in LA? Odom as a second option is an absolute joke. You are not going to be a successfull team when he's your 2nd best player. And SMUSH PARKER is their third best player!!!! He didn't even last half a season with us!

Who would score on us? We'd be the greatest defensive team ever, and the greatest team in sports history with Kobe.

No doubt about it.

Greatest team in sports history?

Is that really you George?

Puff and pass

We already have one of the greatest teams in sports history, there is no debating that. [smilie=alpacacall.:

Just think if we replaced the weak link in our starting lineup for one of the greatest players in the history of the game. No one would score on us, no one could stop us from scoring on them. Greatest team ever.

Greatest Defensive Team of All-Time?

Name a couple of options

Greatest Team in Sports History?

Name a couple of options

You can't just throw out statements like that.

Adding Kobe does make us better, but the best ever?

In this NBA?

And in all of sports?

I think not

And any INTELLIGENT person would trade Rip for Kobe in a heartbeat. Rip is a catch and shoot player who couldn't defend my grandmother, who had a hip replacement. Kobe Bryant can shoot, post players up(unlike Rip), create off the dribble(unlike Rip), draws double and triple teams(unlike Rip), plays great defense(unlike Rip), rebounds(unlike Rip), and is a great passer(again, unlike Rip).


First off, I'd stop watching if he traded for that fuck. I dont know what you've been watching, but RIPS defense has improved leaps and bounds since he's been here. RIP can post up smaller guards. Do you watch games? RIP can get his with out shooting 35 times a game.

But whatever, i'm done here. I've done this 50000 times with steve, im not gonna do it with you.

And Rip is the weakest link in our starting line-up?

Based on what?

There is no weak link in our line up. Darko is the only weak link on the entire team. You have a weak link in your head.

In GWB's defense I would trade Rip for Kobe.

But to claim that Kobe is one of the greatest players in the history of the game is utter bullshit.

GWB wrote:


Just think if we replaced the weak link in our starting lineup for one of the greatest players in the history of the game

And this next quote makes me shake my head:

GWB wrote:


No one would score on us, no one could stop us from scoring on them. Greatest team ever.


No one could score on us?

So we'd hold opponents to ZERO?

Or were you just going for dramatic effect?

Pass it on GW - you've had enough

ok the lakers did win in spite of kobe. but its not inspite of his talent which i see everyone is trying to equate it to. its in spite of him taking nights off because his teammates said he shoots too much, in spite of him telling his coach to go fuck himself when he tries to tell him about an asignment he missed against the kings in the playoffs, in spite of his psychotic obsession to have his own team with all other members being the worse than his sidekicks(more like his subordinates), in spite of his constant tanntrums he throws when he doesnt get the ball when he wants, in spite of his response to that being"well im just gonna chuck it everytime i get it for the rest of the game", and plenty more childish bullshit that HAS NO FIT ON THIS TEAM.

You Highlight lovers would take that in spite of it in a heartbeat. i dont love kobe and i really dont hate him. he's an amazing SCORER. but what he does doesnt amaze me from a team or leadership standpoint. i dont what he says but everytime he tries to lead people on his team, they always get this look like "stfu". [smilie=artist.gif] ..

kobe's attitude is a cancer on any team oriented team. he may be able to SAY the right things about not scoring or getting the ball vs winning. but his expressions show his true feelings in a too obvious manner. that type of shit spreads through the locker room in a bad way. first time the coach tells him to pass to get others involved is right when things get complicated. or team became what it is through the responsibility to take over and win games as a team. i like people not knowing who to deal with on any night.

the idea that someone is crazy for not wanting kobe on their team is retarded. not one guy on our team thinks twice about not getting the ball. especially Rip. we could easily having Rip averaging just as much as kobe on less shots per game within the offense. keeping kobe within the offense doesnt happen. i like that everyone as accomplished as they are listens to our coach and respects him. kobe would try to run saunders and fight with LB every night. just a stack of headaches day in and day out. i honestly felt Hill in his prime was better than kobe now. but that part is just my opinion.


love kobe all you want. just dont trick yourself into believing he's worth it for every other team. because thats not true.

Bryant, Odom seem out of sync
By Royce Webb
ESPN.com

The Los Angeles Lakers' meltdown in Sacramento, which led to an atrocious 118-109 loss in OT on Thursday, raises at least two questions whose answers will say a lot about how this season plays out for the Forum Blue and Gold. (That's purple and yellow, for those who don't remember Chick Hearn and the Fabulous Forum.)

Q1: Is Kobe Bryant mortal after all? Or, to ask that another way, do the powers that allow him to make insane shots down the stretch in game after game sometimes get overridden by strange powers that force him to take even more insane shots that have little chance of going in the hole?-possibly

Q2: Will we start hearing anew about a Lamar Odom-Kobe Bryant rift?very possible at this rate

Let's take Q2 first.

Lamar Odom says all the right things publicly about Kobe Bryant. He marvels at Kobe's talents and says he has no problem living in Kobe's shadow.

But it's sure hard to take all that at face value. The two men seem to be in their own orbit on the court. They rarely interact, and often don't even seem to be playing the same game.

The recent reports of an argument (or, according to some reports, an altercation) between them only reinforce the impression around the league that they really don't care much for each other. Conflicting reports about Odom's potential availability in a Ron Artest deal -- or other trades -- cast further doubt on their relationship.

Two players of such all-around skill should be able to create great synergy on the court. Think of Steve Nash and Shawn Marion, who make each other look better. KB and LO don't do that. good point

But for one shining moment tonight, it looked as though there might be a breakthrough. With the Lakers up two, and about 40 seconds remaining in regulation, Kobe drove right and fired a pass out to Odom at the top of the key, who stroked a 3 in perfect rhythm. Lakers up five, Bryant and Odom happy, all's well.you would think so

Just as quickly, though, Odom made two mistakes that annoyed Bryant. (This was obvious. And that's another way Bryant resembles Michael Jordan -- he lets his annoyance at his teammates come through loud and clear on the court.)another, i thought that was the only resemblence

First, Odom inexplicably drove the lane, with the Lakers up four and supposedly running down the clock, and committed an offensive foul with 22 seconds remaining.

Second, after the Kings tied the game with four seconds remaining, he failed to get the ball to Bryant, instead hastily pulling the trigger on an ill-fated 25-footer. Kobe was clearly angry, and made it plain that he had wanted the ball.

Which brings us to Q1.

Up to the end of regulation -- in other words, until Odom's fateful errors -- Kobe was playing at an unbelievable level. He had scored 46 points, including 12 in the last 5:43, and had made all 13 of his free throws, giving him a Lakers-record 48 straight FTs made.

But playing under the influence of the frustration of seeing the Lakers' lead slip away, Bryant seemed to find a new gear: call it Gatling Gun mode, because while the Kings were taking the lead, he quickly fired up three extremely difficult shots -- including two long 3s -- that had little chance of going in.so is the gatling gun a legitamate response of a leader vs getting everybody on the same page?

His body language said, we're winning or losing this game on my terms, like it or not. He took six of the Lakers' first seven shots in OT, making only two. Basically, he shot the Lakers right out of the game. and you'd want this aura "clutchness" in detroit?

It's been an incredible season for Kobe. In the last week alone, he's vanquished LeBron and Shaq, two of his greatest rivals.very big wins no doubt

But on Thursday, he and Odom conspired somehow to turn Kobe's 51-point performance into an L.most teamwork they've had all season at something

Something ain't right in the land of La-La.yea, the debate seems to be whether the "leader" is responsible

Saying Shaq could have won those 3 championships without Kobe is like people who never saw Michael Jordan play and now say he won those championships because he "made players better" or passed the rock to Steve Kerr. Morons. No truth at all to that statement.

Jordan never made anyone better. He was the same ball-chucking, stat whore he always was. The difference was that Scottie Pippen developed into one of the greatest all-around players (especially on the defensive end) to ever play the game and the rest of the shots not taken by MJ were taken by scottie and eventually a developing Toni Kukoc (who would have been an all-star if he didn't play with a guy as selfish as Jordan.)

And trust me, that pains me to say because I hate Scottie Pippen and the Chicago Bulls with a burning passion.

No, the bulls didn't win because Steve Kerr could hit a jumpshot or because "jordan makes people better." The simple truth is they had the two best players in the league on their team, a great coach and role-players who understood their role in an expansion-diluted NBA.

And then they added Rodman. The league never had a chance which absolutely made the mid-to-late 90's suck.

Shaq and Kobe won 3 championships because they had the two best players in the league on the same team and shaq was in his prime. It didn't matter who else they had. Now they don't have each other, shaq is getting old and Kobe's teammates suck. They absolutely suck.

You give Kobe another stud to play with and the lakers will be just about unbeatable.

You put Michael Jordan, Steve Kerr and Lamar Odom and nobody on the same team and they go .500 as well.

Don't ever utter Kobe's name in the same sentance as Jordan.

Kobe will never have a single season with better stats than Jordan's frickin' CAREER STATS:

FG%___3PFG%___FT%___RPG___Steals___Blks___APG___PP G
.497____.327____.835____6.2____.893___2,514___5.3_ __30.1

"Ball chucking"? LMFAO! 50% CAREER with 6 CHAMPIONSHIPS!

If you you want to go by one season at a time, it's not even remotely close. Jordan put up 30ppg on 50% shooting, 7asts, 7 rebs in his...ROOKIE YEAR. Stats not doin much for ya? Try this:

Honors: Six-time NBA champion (1991-93, 1996-98); NBA MVP (1988, '91, '92, '96, '98); 10-time All-NBA First Team (1987-93, 1996-98); All-NBA Second Team (1985); Defensive Player of the Year (1988); Nine-time All-Defensive First Team (1988-93, 1996-98); Rookie of the Year (1985); 14-time All-Star; All-Star MVP (1988, '96, '98); One of 50 Greatest Players in NBA History (1996); Two-time Olympic gold medalist (1984, '92)


And on top of it all, Scottie was a GREAT player, but he wasn't Shaq. Let's get that shit straight right now people. That's a fucking joke of a comparison. Shaq has made everyone he's ever played with's fg% very inflated ( :cough: Damon Jones :cough: ) because of his pressence and teams paying so much attention to him. Guess what, Kobe's fg% still blew. Shaq is considered by many to be the most dominant center ever (which is still total horseshit), and you want to compare him and his impact to Scottie's? LMFAO. Oh, and take a look at Jordan's centers over his career and then the six championships he had during the era of amazing players he went up against. Shit, fuck all the stats. I watched Jordan play. I followed his career. I've lived in LA my entire life, so I sure as fuck have watched alot of Kobe. There is no comparison.

Don't compare Kobe to Jordan.

Ever.

I couldn't agree more. NoQ, that's your best post yet.

Yeah but it had absolutely nothing to do with what yargs said. It was a stretch, but I guess he was aching to make that post.

Saying Shaq could have won those 3 championships without Kobe is like people who never saw Michael Jordan play and now say he won those championships because he "made players better" or passed the rock to Steve Kerr. Morons. No truth at all to that statement.

Jordan never made anyone better. He was the same ball-chucking, stat whore he always was. The difference was that Scottie Pippen developed into one of the greatest all-around players (especially on the defensive end) to ever play the game and the rest of the shots not taken by MJ were taken by scottie and eventually a developing Toni Kukoc (who would have been an all-star if he didn't play with a guy as selfish as Jordan.)

And trust me, that pains me to say because I hate Scottie Pippen and the Chicago Bulls with a burning passion.

No, the bulls didn't win because Steve Kerr could hit a jumpshot or because "jordan makes people better." The simple truth is they had the two best players in the league on their team, a great coach and role-players who understood their role in an expansion-diluted NBA.

And then they added Rodman. The league never had a chance which absolutely made the mid-to-late 90's suck.

Shaq and Kobe won 3 championships because they had the two best players in the league on the same team and shaq was in his prime. It didn't matter who else they had. Now they don't have each other, shaq is getting old and Kobe's teammates suck. They absolutely suck.

You give Kobe another stud to play with and the lakers will be just about unbeatable.

You put Michael Jordan, Steve Kerr and Lamar Odom and nobody on the same team and they go .500 as well.

Don't ever utter Kobe's name in the same sentance as Jordan.

Kobe will never have a single season with better stats than Jordan's frickin' CAREER STATS:

FG%___3PFG%___FT%___RPG___Steals___Blks___APG___PP G
.497____.327____.835____6.2____.893___2,514___5.3_ __30.1

"Ball chucking"? LMFAO! 50% CAREER with 6 CHAMPIONSHIPS!

If you you want to go by one season at a time, it's not even remotely close. Jordan put up 30ppg on 50% shooting, 7asts, 7 rebs in his...ROOKIE YEAR. Stats not doin much for ya? Try this:

Honors: Six-time NBA champion (1991-93, 1996-98); NBA MVP (1988, '91, '92, '96, '98); 10-time All-NBA First Team (1987-93, 1996-98); All-NBA Second Team (1985); Defensive Player of the Year (1988); Nine-time All-Defensive First Team (1988-93, 1996-98); Rookie of the Year (1985); 14-time All-Star; All-Star MVP (1988, '96, '98); One of 50 Greatest Players in NBA History (1996); Two-time Olympic gold medalist (1984, '92)


And on top of it all, Scottie was a GREAT player, but he wasn't Shaq. Let's get that shit straight right now people. That's a fucking joke of a comparison. Shaq has made everyone he's ever played with's fg% very inflated ( :cough: Damon Jones :cough: ) because of his pressence and teams paying so much attention to him. Guess what, Kobe's fg% still blew. Shaq is considered by many to be the most dominant center ever (which is still total horseshit), and you want to compare him and his impact to Scottie's? LMFAO. Oh, and take a look at Jordan's centers over his career and then the six championships he had during the era of amazing players he went up against. Shit, fuck all the stats. I watched Jordan play. I followed his career. I've lived in LA my entire life, so I sure as fuck have watched alot of Kobe. There is no comparison.

Don't compare Kobe to Jordan.

Ever.


Jordan and Kobe are remarkably similar players. Jordan's FG% is higher largely due in part to the era he played in.

The 80's were a one-pass and shoot decade - i.e. more shots were taken and therefore more opportunities for stats- assists especially; teams rarely shot 3-pointers and defense was never really a factor in games until the pistons of the late 80s changed the way the game was played and coaced. As a result you saw higher field goal percentages, more points and more opportunities for stats.

Now teams grind it out more and take contested shots with the shot clock running down and guess who gets stuck taking the most "bad shots"? The Kobe Bryant's of the world.

That in addition to the insane increase in 3-point shots taken attributes greatly to the differences between Kobe and Jordan's field goal percentage.

It's basic math, folks, so don't go throwing out Jordan's field goal percentage as a way to prove that jordan was better than Kobe (although I do think Jordan had a better understanding that a 15 foot jump shot in most situations was better than chucking a 25-foot 3-pointer, something kobe does)

Jordan and Kobe are pretty much the same player.

So you think if you replace Kobe with MJ on those Bulls teams they still win 6 titles? Interesting. I think I'd agree with that.

Actually, they'd win 7 or 8, because Kobe hates baseball. [smilie=wink.gif]