Why Why Why does Sheldon Williams get so much undeserved hype. Last night during the NC State game the announcers did not call him Williams. They referred to him as "The best big man in the country" or "The All American." Look at his numbers, they aren't that good! He is a decent defender, but that's about it. Paul Davis is putting up 21 pts and 10 boards a game and he doesn't get 10% of the credit Williams does. Every time I see Williams against a good big man, he gets lit up. Paul Davis in the tourney last year (21 pts, fouled Williams out), Killingsworth dropped 35 on Williams, and last night a sophmore dropped like 28 on Williams! How is he the best big man in the country? STOP THE HYPE!

Killingsworth is the best big man I have seen so far this year.


Art

It is Duke man. I agree with you on all points, but you know Duke gets the hype like no other. With that being said...I would take sheldon every day of the week over Paul Davis...

Duke sucks. ACC is not that good this year so it is a good time for them to run the table. Saying that, they will lose 2.


Art

Let me start by saying that I'm not a big Sheldon Wiliams fan. I think the guy will be lucky to stay in the NBA for 2 seasons. It is tough trying to be a 6'9" power forward. He could only hope to be half as good as Corliss. But nonetheless, call me stat boy cuz I'm bringing the numbers:

Paul Davis -- 18.5 PPG, 10.0 RPG, 58% FG, 16 BLKS, 17 STLS, 41 TO's, 31 ASTS, 48 fouls.

Sheldon Williams -- 18.2 PPG, 9.4 RPG, 61% FG, 59 BLKS, 31 STLS, 30 TO's, 19 ASTS, 48 fouls

Marco Killingsworth -- 20.2 PPG, 7.4 RPG, 62% FG, 15 BLKS, 7 STLS, 62 TO's, 29 ASTS, 46 fouls

Davis and Williams are a little above Killingsworth in my opinion. I think I would take Davis over Williams because of height, but Williams shows himself to be a far superior defender and his team is undefeated and I think that is the key stat. I wouldn't mind seeing these cats play each other in March though, it would be a nice battle!

Nice work Filly!

I'd take Davis. Sheldon obviously has better defensive numbers. But, Williams' offensive output gets inflated in comparison to Davis because Williams has only 1 other true scoring threat on his team. Davis competes for shots with Ager and Brown who both average around 20 a game.

After Davis' performance last year versus Williams, he gets my vote. I'll take the guy who dominated and won when they went head to head.

Nice work Filly!

I'd take Davis. Sheldon obviously has better defensive numbers. But, Williams' offensive output gets inflated in comparison to Davis because Williams has only 1 other true scoring threat on his team. Davis competes for shots with Ager and Brown who both average around 20 a game.

After Davis' performance last year versus Williams, he gets my vote. I'll take the guy who dominated and won when they went head to head.

What the hell are you talking about? The FG% should tell you that Williams actually takes FEWER shots than Davis. I guess this is what Spartan whining sounds like. According to you, Michigan whining is excuses for losses. Spartan whining must be "Why can't people suck our dicks like we're Duke?"

Paul Davis -- 207 shots

Sheldon Williams -- 169 shots

Paul Davis -- 207 shots

Sheldon Williams -- 169 shots

Exactly.

Settle Jethro. MSU's commits today must have gotten you riled up.

I stand corrected. (I can admit when I'm wrong) I guess Davis does get more shots. Doesn't change my opinion though.

I'm taking the guy that won when they met in the tourney.

Well lets look into the stats a little further.

Davis 31.4 MPG 18.5 points, 10.0 reb, 1/1.3 ass/to .9 blocks, .9 steals .580 %.

Killing 29.1 MPG, 20.2, 7.4 reb, 1/2.1 ass/TO, .5 steals and 1.1 blocks .619 %

Williams 31.4 MPG 18.4, 9.4, 1/1.5 ass/to, 2.1 steals and 3.7 blocks .610 %.

Just from numbers Killing is the best scorer, Davis is best rebounder and Williams is the best defender.

This is going strictly by numbers. So depending on what you really want out of your big man dictates who you prefer.

Williams by numbers alone is the best all around player.

I dont care who won last's year game. It wasnt Davis vs. Sheldon either. It was Duke vs MSU, MSU might have won but does not mean that Davis is the better player. Numbers this year would say otherwise.


Art

Settle Jethro. MSU's commits today must have gotten you riled up.

I stand corrected. (I can admit when I'm wrong) I guess Davis does get more shots. Doesn't change my opinion though.

I'm taking the guy that won when they met in the tourney.

So then you would take Darko over Dwayne Wade? Come on, that's no reason.

By the way Tre, I'm not riled up over Summers and Allen. When was the last time Michigan had a shot at either? It's been a while. So why would I care? Because I don't want State to have a good class? No big deal, they usually do. I want Michigan's classes to improve - not State's to drop. I want both to be great teams so there can be a legit rivalry. I want State to be good when Michigan plays them so that when/if we win, it's worth bragging about.
I was pissed about Lucas because Michigan was going for him hard, but these other guys haven't been there in weeks, if at all.
A great State recruiting class just means things are staying the same. Plenty of great recruiting classes have come and gone in East Lansing without winning a national championship. So whoop-dee-do.
Bottom line, the dude looks more like a girl than Tyronne Lue - and that's never a good thing.

Davis>Willams

So then you would take Darko over Dwayne Wade? Come on, that's no reason.

That's the worst analogy I've ever heard. Are you serious? I'm not even responding.

And don't feed me that line are garbage about how you want State to continue their success. C'mon, get real. You know and I know we'd love to see each others schools fail at anything and everything until the end of time. That's why it's a fierce rivalry.

Settle Jethro. MSU's commits today must have gotten you riled up.

I stand corrected. (I can admit when I'm wrong) I guess Davis does get more shots. Doesn't change my opinion though.

I'm taking the guy that won when they met in the tourney.

So then you would take Darko over Dwayne Wade? Come on, that's no reason.Wow that makes no sense what so ever.

First of all, when the numbers pretty clearly point to one guy being better and more worthy of the hype, you chose to take the other simply because his team won. Yes, the Darko-Wade comparison was extreme, but just an example of how you can't point to TEAM victories when making a head-to-head INDIVIDUAL comparison.

And as for wanting State to be bad, I love it when they suck in football because they don't matter to me. But in basketball, where they're established as the best team in the State, I want to beat them when they're good. Maybe after doing that for a few years I won't care if they're good or not, but not everyone can simply enjoy another team being bad.

Take Tuesday's victory over MLS. Did it help in the appreciation that they had a vote in the State AP rankings? I'm sure it was better than a normal blowout win over a pathetic MLS team.

First of all, when the numbers pretty clearly point to one guy being better and more worthy of the hype, you chose to take the other simply because his team won. Yes, the Darko-Wade comparison was extreme, but just an example of how you can't point to TEAM victories when making a head-to-head INDIVIDUAL comparison.

First of all, I remember someone here on WTF talking about how Henne wins in the Henne/Stanton comparison.

But, in regards to Davis and Williams. The reason why it matters who won is because Davis was a HUGE reason why they won. Do you remember Davis and Williams battling down the stretch head to head? Remember the HUUUUUUUUUUUUGE And 1 play that put Williams out of the game. The game was on the line, Davis dominated Williams, State won. Game over.

According to Len Elmore's player of the year ratings index, Williams is #1. I guess he factors in points, rebounds, assists, blocks, steals and wins vs. top 25 teams. It's straight mathematics baby.

I will wait until the careers are over for Drew and Henne, but if you want to play the game your way Tre, than Henne is better than Stanton.

Henne has lead his team to 2 victories and made the throws in both games to get the job done.

So we can stop the debate right here and right now...Henne owns Stanton by your own rules.

Stanton being injured is no bearing. He is not durable enough and that is part of being a football player.


Art

Art, you are getting way off topic. I was talking to Jethro in reference to the Stanton/Henne thing because he was here for that argument and he knows what I'm talking about. You weren't here for that, therefore you don't know what I'm referring to.

Just to let you know, all the UM fans here on the board conceded in that arguement. But, it is off topic so I'll let it go.

Do you remember Davis and Williams battling down the stretch head to head? Remember the HUUUUUUUUUUUUGE And 1 play that put Williams out of the game. The game was on the line, Davis dominated Williams, State won. Game over.


Oh I guess it is off topic because they didnt play H2H and they played with other players called teammates. Kind of like Williams and Davis? You only take Davis because he is state. At least be honest about it.

I think Stanton at this point is better than Henne too, but Henne has beaten Stanton and thus by YOUR reasoning, Henne is the better QB. Oh wait, no that cannot be true because the rules will change.

I do realize that we must fit all criteria to you, even if it shifts from one player to another.


Art

Coming up big in big games is a definate reason why a player might be considered better.

When Davis and Williams went head to head in the biggest game of their seasons, Davis dominated and he was probably the #1 reason why State advanced and Duke didn't.

Argue with that.

Further proof that college basketball is watered down immensely. This Duke team is VERY WEAK but they are undefeated.

Reddick and Williams are both good players but neither of them would crack the starting lineup of the classic Duke teams.

You are basing your assessment on one game.
Thanks for showing me how small minded you truly are.





Art

Not at all. I said earlier than Williams gets lit up by every decent big man he faces. Davis was brought up as a better big man. They have similar numbers and Davis was better when they played against one another. So it strengthens my opinion.

I don't agree at all George. College Basketball is not watered down. Duke, UConn, Villanova, Texas, and MSU are all great teams. Some of the best teams we've seen in years.

In addition, JJ Redick could have started at SG for any Duke team in the history of their program.

Any Duke team? I'm really not too sure about that. And if was able to start, he would be the 4th-5th option.

Perimeter players better than Reddick:

Mike Dunleavy
Shane Battier
Bobby Hurley
Corey Maggette
Grant Hill
Trajon Langdon
Dahntay Jones

Hell, even Daniel Ewing was just as good.

I'm sorry, but I don't see the big deal with JJ Reddick. He can't dribble, he can't pass, he's not strong, he can't play a lick of D, he's not athletic, he can't create his own shot.

He's nothing but a Rip/Reggie/Ray Allen clone. He catches and shoots, and does nothing else.

And I love Duke.

Perimeter players better than Reddick:

Mike Dunleavy
Shane Battier
Bobby Hurley
Corey Maggette
Grant Hill
Trajon Langdon
Dahntay Jones


Dunleavy, Battier and Hill were all forwards. Some play SG now, but none of them did in College. Some were even PF's there.

Hurley was a PG.

Only Jones, Maggette and Langdon played SG there and I think Reddick is definately better than Langdon and Jones were.

I love how you put a 4 loss MSU team there with 0, 1, 2 loss teams.

Williams gets lit up by every big man, and how many games of Williams have you watched...probably not many or you would not have said such a thing.

Oh yeah Killingsworth lit it up for 32 points. Your right those 2 games prove that Williams only does well against crappy teams with no bigs.


Art

WTF why am I even talking about a Duke player.

I hate fucking Duke. I hate them more than MSU.

Even though Tre is makng it really hard for me to hate Duke more..:)


Art

C'mon George! You listed only a few SG's and not one of them were better than Reddick is now. Half the guys you listed were forwards or point guards. I hate Duke, but I can admit that J.J. can ball. And if you think he can only shoot, than you haven't watched him much.

Art, I've watched Duke 7-8 times this year. Throughout his career he has been hyped and when he plays against a good big man, that big man lights him up. I listed the last 3 good big men he's faced and all put up big numbers against him.

And yes, I do put MSU with those other 4 teams. Those are the 5 best teams in college basketball that I've seen this year and I watch every night. All have had ups and downs. When the smoke clears, you'll see those teams still standing.

Let me get away from the Paul Davis stuff because that is not what this thread is about.

Back on topic. Sheldon Williams is overrated. Disagree? Let's see what you have to say about this:

Killingsworth vs. Williams 34 pts., 10 rebs
Collins vs. Williams 25 pts, 8 rebs
Aldridge vs. Williams 21 pts, 6 rebs
E. Williams vs. Williams 17 pts (9 shots), 8 rebs
Simmons vs. Williams 28 pts, 9 rebs

Yeah, you are right. He isn't overrated. He's a 1st Team All American Center that allows 25 pts per game against the best big men he faces.

And he played man D against these guys every game for every minute they were on the floor?

I mean the other 6'10 guys who plays 22 minutes a game doesnt guard any of these people.

Williams averages almost 4 blocked shots a game.

Plus you didnt even say anything about the games against Maryland, Memphis, etc where the other teams frontcourt doesnt do anything.



Art

Who cares about Duke? They don't play anyone until conference play, the ACC is very weak this year anyways, and everytime they play someone good that is non-conference the non-conference foe has to come to Cameron or go to a neutral site because Coach K doesn't have the balls to play anywhere else.

Who cares about Duke? They don't play anyone until conference play, the ACC is very weak this year anyways, and everytime they play someone good that is non-conference the non-conference foe has to come to Cameron or go to a neutral site because Coach K doesn't have the balls to play anywhere else.

Sorry Disc, but I think Coach K and the boys went to Indiana and took out the Hoosiers in Assembly Hall. And they smoked #2 (at the time) Texas. Very impressive. [smilie=clappy.gif]

Yeah, horrible take Disc. At Indiana, at Wake, at #2 Texas in a rout. That Memphis win is impressive no matter where it happened. Terrible argument.

Ouch time shot down by the veterans of WTF.

Tre, are you psychic? You create this thread just before the game where Shelden is looking terrible and pulling a Courtney Sims. [smilie=baby.gif]

Right now he has 3 points (a la Courtney in the big games) and Duke is about to lose to unranked Georgetown. [smilie=arrgh.jpg]

haha good stuff moodini

Art, that was a terribly uninformed post. Duke plays ALL man defense and Sheldon is always on the other teams best big man because Malchioni (sp?) can't cover anybody.

Duke doesn't play zone either. The game against Georgetown this weekend was the first they played zone all year.

On top of that, I didn't mention the Maryland or Memphis game because neither team has anything remotely close to a big man.

[smilie=a.gif] C'mon dude, if you are going to argue than you better know something about the subject. Suggesting they play zone and mentioning teams without a post presence...shaky at best.

I never said zone and I am sorry that you misunderstood what I was trying to get across.

For someone who is so "informed", prove to me that he played every minute against the other teams top forward and show me what % of the points were put up against Williams as opposed to someone else who guarded this top guy.

Bad game, but I still stand by Williams is a better player than Davis and will be a better pro.


Art

Yeah, you are right. I'm sure 2,3,4, maybe even 5 pts were scored against somebody else. But, when the other teams best big man is avg. 25 points a freaking game- it's an absolute joke! Look at those numbers I posted, absolute joke.

Paul Davis IS better.

Paul Davis is a much better offensive player. Williams gets his points on lobs and tip-ins and wide open layups. Davis can do that AND more.

I also think Davis is a better post defender, and Davis isn't as foul heavy as Williams.

The only advantage Williams has is athletic ability and weakside defense.

You are absolutely right George!

On top of that, Davis is much more versatile. This year he runs the floor so well. How many dunks have you seen on Sportscenter where Davis beat his man down the floor and got a dish from Neitzel? Tons!

And his long range game...Davis is hitting 3's now this year. His shot is deadly and you can count on him at the end of the game because he's the best free throw shooting big man in the country.

LMAO. Okay you guys are right. You have beaten me down will all the cuckcolding on Davis.

Davis is the greatest big man this year.



Art

I expect to hear how great Davis is some more.



Art

Davis may be hitting three's this year, but he's also missing three's.