I'll start with this article, and then post my thoughts in another post.

Despite loss, Lions end season with some positive feelings
Monday, January 02, 2006
By Tom Kowalski


PITTSBURGH -- None of the Detroit Lions players lost sight of the fact they were beaten by two touchdowns on Sunday. But, they also don't want team president Matt Millen to lose sight of what happened in the first half, either.

The Lions capped off the 2005 regular season with another loss, a 35-21 defeat to the Pittsburgh Steelers, who needed to win to qualify for the playoffs. The Lions finished with a 5-11 record, their fifth consecutive season with double-digit losses.

Several players, though, believe Detroit's first-half offensive performance is a testament that they could be on the right track. The Steelers, who had given up a total of only 12 points in the previous three games, allowed two Lions touchdowns in the first quarter. The Lions were sharp in every offensive phase.

"It definitely gives us hope," said tight end Marcus Pollard, who had four pass receptions for 50 yards, including an 11-yard touchdown catch. "We took a step tonight. Even though we didn't win, as a group, we took a step in the right direction."

Detroit's offense moved the ball effectively for most of the game, converting 10-of-17 third downs and going 3-for-3 in the red zone. Quarterback Joey Harrington completed 17 of 33 passes for 212 yards, three touchdowns and no interceptions and had a passer efficiency rating of 102.1.

"I thought Joey played a good game, a strong game," said Lions interim head coach Dick Jauron. "I thought that he handled things well."

The problem was that three special teams mishaps led directly to 21 first-half Pittsburgh points and then, in the second half, the Steelers' running game took over. The Lions had one full possession in the third quarter -- and scored a touchdown -- but the Steelers didn't allow them many opportunities because Pittsburgh controlled the tempo. In the second half, the Steelers ran 31 times and threw just five passes. The Lions' defense couldn't get Pittsburgh off the field to give their own offense more chances.

"It's not my team, but I believe I'd keep the quarterback. I'd keep Joey," said Lions wide receiver Roy Williams, who had three receptions for 31 yards, including a 15-yard touchdown catch. "He made strides with this team, with the confidence, and I think everybody's starting to respect him now.

"You saw a bunch of big throws. We didn't win, but he put us in a position to win. But, it's a team sport, it's offense, defense and special teams -- you can't win just one or two."

Despite the team's poor record and shaky offensive performance this season, Williams believes the Lions would be better served by keeping most of the team intact and continuing to grow.

"Hopefully, everybody's back. I've only been here two years and I don't want to see a carousel of players coming in and going out," Williams said. "Let's get some continuity, stay together and let's keep this thing rolling."

Center Dominic Raiola echoed Williams' sentiments.

"There's no consolation in a loss, but there was a positive there," Raiola said. "You don't want to shut it down and do what they did in '01 and cut everybody and bring in a whole new team.

"You've got to have continuity. You can see it in Roy, he's taking on the role of a leader. We keep forgetting he's only in his second year, but he's taking that role and taking it to the next level. He played every snap and even more (important) than catching those balls, it was him digging out those safeties in the run game. That's why a few of those runs went, because he was digging out those safeties."

For his part, Harrington admits that it's important to have Williams' support -- but that's just the beginning.

"I'm not trying to prove that I'm not the problem, that's never been my mentality. But, I am trying to get their confidence," Harrington said. "As a quarterback, you need people to believe in you. Every quarterback in this league can play -- it's about the confidence and the trust that people have in the huddle. Everybody has talent, every quarterback can throw the ball, every running back can run and every lineman can block -- that's why you're here.

"Being successful is about having a relationship and a trust and a confidence in the guys in the huddle."

While Harrington is under contract for the next two years, his status is anything but solid. He's scheduled to make $4.45 million in salary next season and he'll also receive a $4 million bonus if he's on the roster on June 15. It appears the decision of whether to keep Harrington will come down to the desires of the new head coach -- whoever that's going to be.

If the Lions keep Harrington, they'll want to restructure his contract to make it more salary cap-friendly. If Harrington wants to leave, though, he can refuse to negotiate and make it tougher for the Lions to keep him.

"The first thing is getting the feeling that I'm wanted. That's issue No. 1," Harrington said. "I don't know what they want to do with me. Two months ago, the consensus was that I was on the first thing smokin' out of town. A month ago, now I'm staying. You can't let yourself get too high or too low. You can't let yourself get caught up in the mentality that the mob picks up."

Here are the stats on our players:

Passing Statistics
NAME CMP ATT YDS CMP% YDS/A LNG TD TD% INT INT% SACK YDS RAT
Joey Harrington 188 330 2021 57.0 6.12 86 12 3.6 12 3.6 24 136 72.0
Jeff Garcia 102 173 937 59.0 5.42 49 3 1.7 6 3.5 6 34 65.1
Dan Orlovsky 7 17 63 41.2 3.71 20 0 0.0 0 0.0 1 3 51.8

Possible QB options:

Free Agents
Player Type 2005 Team
Anthony Wright UFA Ravens
Charlie Batch UFA Steelers
Chris Simms RFA Buccaneers
Chris Weinke UFA Panthers
Craig Nall UFA Packers
Damon Huard UFA Chiefs
Dave Ragone RFA Texans
Doug Flutie UFA Patriots
Drew Brees UFA Chargers
Jamie Martin UFA Rams
Jeff Blake UFA Bears
Jeff Garcia UFA Lions
Jesse Palmer UFA 49ers
Jon Kitna UFA Bengals
Josh McCown UFA Cardinals
Ken Dorsey RFA 49ers
Kliff Kingsbury RFA Jets
Kurt Warner UFA Cardinals
Sage Rosenfels UFA Dolphins
Seneca Wallace RFA Seahawks
Shane Matthews UFA Bills
Shaun Hill UFA Vikings
Tim Hasselbeck UFA Giants
Todd Collins UFA Chiefs
Ty Detmer UFA Falcons
Vinny Testaverde UFA Jets

Rumored to be available (probably for first rounders):
Matt Schaub - Falcons
Billy Volek or Steve McNair - Titans
David Garrard - Jags
Phillip Rivers - SD

Garcia is gone for sure IMO. So that leaves Joey and Dan. We won't draft one IMO (Lienart and Young will be gone, and I don't think we'll take a chance on Cutler). That means Joey must be back, even if you sign a guy to compete with him. I'll go thru the list and add my opinions...

Free Agents
Player Type 2005 Team
Anthony Wright UFA Ravens (worse than Joey, no thanks)
Charlie Batch UFA Steelers (didn't work before and won't now)
Chris Simms RFA Buccaneers (Bucs will resign)
Chris Weinke UFA Panthers (no thanks)
Craig Nall UFA Packers (no way)
Damon Huard UFA Chiefs (no way)
Dave Ragone RFA Texans (no way)
Doug Flutie UFA Patriots (dust off his walker)
Drew Brees UFA Chargers (sure, if they let him go)
Jamie Martin UFA Rams (if the price is right maybe)
Jeff Blake UFA Bears (no way)
Jeff Garcia UFA Lions (nope)
Jesse Palmer UFA 49ers (no way)
Jon Kitna UFA Bengals (sure)
Josh McCown UFA Cardinals (no thanks)
Ken Dorsey RFA 49ers (no way)
Kliff Kingsbury RFA Jets (who?)
Kurt Warner UFA Cardinals (no thanks)
Sage Rosenfels UFA Dolphins (no way)
Seneca Wallace RFA Seahawks (no way)
Shane Matthews UFA Bills (no way)
Shaun Hill UFA Vikings (who?)
Tim Hasselbeck UFA Giants (no way)
Todd Collins UFA Chiefs (no way)
Ty Detmer UFA Falcons (haha)
Vinny Testaverde UFA Jets (get him a walker too)

Keep Harrington and bring in a coach with a good pocket passing offense.

I read an interesting stat the other day.

ALL SIX of the last Super Bowl champs had a pocket passer and not a running quarterback. ALL SIX.

So for all the Lion fans that previously said "at least McMahon can make something happen with his feet" or "at least Garcia can make something happen with his feet", or are now saying "at least Aaron Brooks can make something happen with his feet", all you are doing is trying to put a bandaid on the real problem - a poor offensive line.

Harrington with the right offense and a decent line could get us to a Super Bowl - he's immensely more talented than Super Bowl champ Trent Dilfer.

ay, he killed the discussion before it even started

when you play the Dilfer card, it's over

and kittens die

...So, that basically leaves us these 3 plus the backups (Volek/McNair, Schaub, Garrard, Rivers) that could be had for first rounders:

Drew Brees UFA Chargers (sure, if they let him go)
Jamie Martin UFA Rams (if the price is right maybe)
Jon Kitna UFA Bengals (sure)

NAME CMP ATT YDS CMP% YDS/A LNG TD TD% INT INT% SACK YDS RAT
Steve McNair 292 476 3161 61.3 6.64 57 16 3.4 11 2.3 20 134 82.4
Billy Volek 50 88 474 56.8 5.39 55 4 4.5 2 2.3 9 45 77.6
Drew Brees 323 500 3576 64.6 7.15 54 24 4.8 15 3.0 27 223 89.2
Philip Rivers 12 22 115 54.5 5.23 22 0 0.0 1 4.5 3 16 50.4
Matt Schaub 33 64 495 51.6 7.73 53 4 6.3 0 0.0 6 27 98.1
Jamie Martin 124 177 1277 70.1 7.22 83 5 2.8 7 4.0 11 78 83.5
Jon Kitna (career) 1667 2837 18259 58.8 6.44 82 108 104 173 75.3
David Garrard 98 168 1117 58.3 6.65 37 4 2.4 1 0.6 8 45 83.9

I'm not a fan of trading a first rounder for those guys. They haven't shown me anything to think they are that much better than these 3 FA's, or Joey for that matter. At least not when we could get a monster DE, shut down CB or solidify our OL with that pick. I'll take my chances with Joey and one of these guys as a FA.

The Lions need to bring back Harrington just due to the fact that it's hard to replace a quarterback let alone two quarterbacks. But I do hope that they restructure his contract to make it more cap-friendly.

Other than vets like Johnson, Kitna, Weinke or Volek I wouldn't mind seeing Garrard or Schaub here (that is assuming both Rivers and Brees are retained).

Also I am against trading a first rounder for any of these QB's listed in this thread. Like Chris said, the first rounder can plug some of the holes we have on our roster.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060101/SPORTS0101/601010304/1126/SPORTS0101

CFL quarterback Printers draws interest, goes through a workout

CFL quarterback Printers draws interest, goes through a workout

Lynn Henning / The Detroit News

Advertisement


Printers file

Born:May 16, 1981
Height, weight:6-foot-2, 216 pounds
Home:DeSoto, Texas, where he was a high school star and, earlier, quarterback on a national Pop Warner championship team.
College:Texas Christian and Florida A&M. Had 23-9 record as starter at TCU and three straight bowl appearances. Injured after he transferred to Florida A&M and had only modest numbers his senior season.
Pro experience:Signed with the CFL British Columbia Lions in 2003. Threw three passes his rookie season before breaking loose in 2004, throwing for 35 touchdowns and 5,088 yards (including a 495-yard game against Ottawa) en route to being named CFL Most Valuable Player. Injured in 2005 and had diminished numbers: 1,676 yards, nine touchdowns, six interceptions.

With the quarterback position in flux on an unsettled Lions team, Detroit is among at least five NFL clubs showing interest in Casey Printers, a three-year Canadian Football League quarterback who was the 2004 CFL Most Valuable Player after leading British Columbia to the Grey Cup title game.

Printers, 24, is mobile with a downfield arm. The Lions worked him out just before Christmas.

Miami, Buffalo, Kansas City and Oakland also have auditioned Printers. Miami could be the frontrunner to sign Printers, who is a Dallas native.

Printers, a 6-foot-2, 216-pounder, played at Texas Christian. He was a starter on the same team with Chargers running back LaDainian Tomlinson. Printers transferred to a more pass-oriented offense at Florida A&M as a senior, but injuries hampered his immediate NFL plans.

Matt Millen, the Lions president, and Martin Mayhew, Lions senior vice president and assistant general manager who has been in discussion with Printers' agent, did not respond to requests for comment. Bill Keenist, Lions senior director of communications, said Saturday he could only confirm the Lions had looked at Printers during a workout at Allen Park.

Printers' agent, Jason Medlock, said he told the Lions on Friday a decision on signing with a NFL club would probably be made within the next two weeks.

"I've spoken with the Miami Dolphins, Kansas City Chiefs, and with the Detroit Lions about financial ramifications," Medlock said. "All three clubs are talking about what can we do, and how can we do it.

"I spoke to Detroit today and told them that he could sign anywhere from the second of the month (January) to the middle of January. We're not going to parade him around the entire league."

Printers passed for 35 touchdowns and 5,088 yards while completing 65.8 percent of his passes in 2004.

He was hurt for much of the 2005 season but recovered in time to throw for 357 yards and four touchdowns in a game in which he also ran for 100 yards and a TD against Montreal.

Printers has an option year remaining with the B.C. Lions, but an agreement between the NFL and CFL allows Canadian players to negotiate with NFL teams in their option season.

The Lions' interest in Printers is understandable. Jeff Garcia, 35 and beset by injuries, likely won't return in 2006. Joey Harrington's future in Detroit is cloudy. He is under contract through 2007, but confidence in Harrington has steadily withered.

Dan Orlovsky, the Lions' third-string quarterback, wraps up his rookie season in today's game at Pittsburgh.

Printers is the latest CFL quarterback to flirt with what could become a prosperous jump to the NFL.

Garcia was a CFL quarterback before signing with San Francisco. Doug Flutie and Warren Moon also played in Canada.

Printers, whose 2005 salary was $65,000, was reportedly offered a three-year, $1.2 million contract by the B.C. Lions.

You can reach Lynn Henning at 313-222-2472 or at lynn.henning@detnews.com

Get a scrambling (not running) QB, an Elway/Young type, since this OL is still gonna let mad game through. Too bad Bradlee Van Pelt is unavailable :wink:

Pocket QB = death


And, of course, "Kittens die"©

Joey will only come back if he renegotiates. He is due 8.5 mil (supposedly, not 100% sure on this).

He is not worth that kind of dough. If he wants to come back for less great, if not then we need to replace him, as he is not worth it.


Art

Joey will only come back if he renegotiates. He is due 8.5 mil (supposedly, not 100% sure on this).

He is not worth that kind of dough. If he wants to come back for less great, if not then we need to replace him, as he is not worth it.


Art

I think his base salary is $4.5 million and he is due a roster bonus of $4 million, so you are right.

If Joey doesn't want to come back (not that I blame him for that), he could refuse to renegotiate and force to Lions to release him.

I still don't understand why they didn't renegotiate with him last off-season when they had a chance and he was willing to take a paycut.

Not mentioned on the list is Kerry Collins, who may be released in a cap move, as many other vet QBs will be.

There will be quite a selection to choose from.

I believe we definatly need to keep Joey. He stays healthy...period.
I think the only people that need to be cut from the offense are Rogers. Talk about a cap hit...he makes more than Joey! And has played in...what? 4 games over 3 years?

We, obviously, need a little help on defense. We have great players, they just can't find a way to stay healthy. Fernando Bryant is a bust...bring back Cris Cash!!!! We need a break out Free Safety...

I believe we definatly need to keep Joey. He stays healthy...period.
I think the only people that need to be cut from the offense are Rogers. Talk about a cap hit...he makes more than Joey! And has played in...what? 4 games over 3 years?
.

That's a misconception. When the Lions benched him and he didn't get his playing bonus his salary took a huge hit. Killer has been adiment in saying he is cheap next year. They might have been dicks for not playing him, but it may pay off next year. It will allow them to spend money on FA's they might not have had otherwise. There is no way Chuck gets cut with that potential and a low cap number. If he doesn't get his act together next year you cut him. But he's a low risk guy right now because he missed his bonus.

I'd like to see us go after Tim Rattay from the Bucs. I know he isn't a FA, but with him being the third on their depth chart I can't imagine he would be overly expensive. Let he and Joey compete in camp and if a guy like DJ Shockley falls to a late first day pick - take him and let him develop on the bench.

BTW - I like the looks of this board as its my first post.

That's a misconception. When the Lions benched him and he didn't get his playing bonus his salary took a huge hit. Killer has been adiment in saying he is cheap next year. They might have been dicks for not playing him, but it may pay off next year. It will allow them to spend money on FA's they might not have had otherwise. There is no way Chuck gets cut with that potential and a low cap number. If he doesn't get his act together next year you cut him. But he's a low risk guy right now because he missed his bonus.
Part of the reason (a major part) why the Lions benched Rogers is so that they can prevent him from reaching some of the escalators in his contract. I personally would keep Rogers and see what he can do under a new coach before we get rid of him. But given the ineptitude management that runs this team, I am not sure if he will be retained.

The only way I would trade for a guy like Schaub. Garrad, Rivers or Volek is if it is either next years first or conditional picks.

No way I give up a top 10 pick regardless of how bad Millen has been in picking for one of those QB's.

My dark horse/pipe dream prediction is Tenn let's McNair go we sign him cut Joey and draft Vince Young.

I know a lot of mocks have the Titans taking Young if he come out but I think having Volek who is solid for them along with their numerous other holes they go in a different direction.

I like you idea of signing McNair but I don't like the Young part though.

Regardless of whether or not he will be a good QB, I would rather not draft a QB (or a WR) in the first round. We need to fix the OLine first and foremost.

I like you idea of signing McNair but I don't like the Young part though.

Regardless of whether or not he will be a good QB, I would rather not draft a QB (or a WR) in the first round. We need to fix the OLine first and foremost.

I agree that OL should be draft Priority 1 but right now I just don't see either top OT landing here. D'Brickashaw will be gone by 9 and Winston Justice won't be a a guy the Lions will take because of past criminal activity per team policy.

The other OT's Winston, Harris from Miami, Colledge from Boise St, and McNeil Auburn are more mid to late first round picks .

If I had my choice I would either trade up to get D'Brickasahw, then trade a future first to get back into the first round and get Winston or McNeil. Or trade down to the 20's draft while getting another 2006 second then draft the best OT on the board. After that trade a future first to pick get back into rd 1 and get a second OT. I would then use (re-signed) Backus at LG, Woody at RG, in the second round draft a C to see if he could unseat Raiola and use my newly drafted OT's as the starting OT's. That would stabilize are offense for years to come IMO.

I like you idea of signing McNair but I don't like the Young part though.

Regardless of whether or not he will be a good QB, I would rather not draft a QB (or a WR) in the first round. We need to fix the OLine first and foremost.

I agree that OL should be draft Priority 1 but right now I just don't see either top OT landing here. D'Brickashaw will be gone by 9 and Winston Justice won't be a a guy the Lions will take because of past criminal activity per team policy.

The other OT's Winston, Harris from Miami, Colledge from Boise St, and McNeil Auburn are more mid to late first round picks .

If I had my choice I would either trade up to get D'Brickasahw, then trade a future first to get back into the first round and get Winston or McNeil. Or trade down to the 20's draft while getting another 2006 second then draft the best OT on the board. After that trade a future first to pick get back into rd 1 and get a second OT. I would then use (re-signed) Backus at LG, Woody at RG, in the second round draft a C to see if he could unseat Raiola and use my newly drafted OT's as the starting OT's. That would stabilize are offense for years to come IMO.

Jonathon Scott is a better tackle than any of those guys outside of DF IMO.

CFL QB Printers narrows NFL choices to Lions, Chiefs
As first reported (locally) in this blog, the B.C. Lions' Casey Printers has narrowed his choices to Detroit and Kansas City.

Jan. 10, Vancouver Sun: Printers' agent, Jason Medlock, says the 24-year-old quarterback will decide later this week whether to return to the CFL and accept an offer from B.C. Lions GM Wally Buono or sign with the Chiefs or Detroit Lions in a developmental role.
...
Detroit is also searching for a new head coach, which makes Printers' signing considerably lower on the priority list. In a reconstruction phase, the NFL Lions are likely to release veteran QB Jeff Garcia and rework the contract or trade starter Joey Harrington, but the list of capable free-agent quarterbacks is thin and Printers could rank as a catch.

In that first blog entry about Printer I said he was a poor-man's Vince Young. The Chiefs agree with my assessment.

"Did you see what Vince Young did in the Rose Bowl?" asks Chiefs scout Jim Criner, referring to Young's leading the Longhorns to an upset win over USC.

"Casey is like Vince Young. He's got a tremendously strong arm, tremendous athleticism, all the physical tools. The thing we don't know is whether he's got the mental tools. But to be honest, talking to the people at British Columbia, they've all given the kid high marks for his ability to learn and retain."

It has been reported by a Vancouver radio station that he signed a 3 year deal with the Cheifs. I don't have the link, but the Free Press reported it this morning too.


http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060112/SPORTS01/601120516/1049/SPORTS


NOTEBOOK: A Vancouver radio station reported quarterback Casey Printers, the 2004 Canadian Football League most outstanding player, signed a three-year deal with the Kansas City Chiefs. He had considered joining the Lions.

BTW, I don't think he's the next Kurt Warner or anything. He lost his starting job last year, so he can't be THAT good.

I was under the assumption that he was injured....

Should the Lions go after Bowling Green Junior Omar Jacobs? The guy had a pretty solid Junior season, but his sophomore season was amazing. He went for 41 TDs and 4 INTs. I understand that's in the MAC, but that's still freakin' unreal.

I don't think the Lions should go after any QB that has not started in this league at some point. They are replacing Jeff Garcia, who is the vet backup to Joey. There is no reason to sign another guy like Orlovski (young unproven QB) because we'd have no viable alternative to Joey. We need someone to compete with Joey and at the very least be a solid backup. Printers won't be that, and neither would any other young guy who hasn't played. We need someone who has played. IE Kitna, or a trade for Volek, Schaub or someone like that.

Now, if they can get a guy like Omar in the 6th/7th round or undrafted and sign him to the practice squad that would be nice. But not for the active roster.

Jacobs has gotten worse every year. Going from 41-4 to 26-7 is a huge dropoff, especially againt the competition he faced. He missed two games - anyone know what for? Injury, discipline?

Jacobs has gotten worse every year. Going from 41-4 to 26-7 is a huge dropoff, especially againt the competition he faced. He missed two games - anyone know what for? Injury, discipline?

Injury, and one dropoff may be every year, but it is also only once. A lot of his drop was his injury, and his numbers still stack up well with most of the competition.

I would like Jacobs, but I'm a scrambling QB guy. I think the Lions need someone like that with their horrid offensive line. Something needs to be done. Joey has proven time and time again (3 coaches now) that he just can't get it done.

I'm hearing good things about Jay Cutler from Vandy. Take him at #9 maybe?

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/Commentary/Spins/2005/spins020906.htm




PFW: With Martz finally in the fold, what is the next move for the Lions?

Reynolds: The Lions still don’t have a sure thing at quarterback. Joey Harrington was the second-highest-paid passer in football last season, but he was erratic, throwing 12 TD passes and 12 interceptions and completing 57 percent of his passes. Last season, he played his best, by far, after the Lions had fallen out of the playoff picture. It could be left up to Martz to decide whether Harrington or some other quarterback comes to Detroit. One wild card, at this stage, is Kurt Warner. Warner is an unrestricted free agent expected to remain in Arizona. However, the lure of Martz and a chance to return to the system that made Warner an MVP when most teams felt he was little better than a stock boy, could be the impetus for a reunion. There is also scuttlebutt surrounding Vanderbilt QB Jay Cutler, a prized prospect who could be available when the Lions draft ninth overall. Martz has taken multiple quarterbacks who weren’t considered the most talented — Trent Green, Warner and Marc Bulger — and made each a Pro Bowler. Some question his play-calling; others believe his offense was too finesse-based. But the most legitimate beef in opposition of Martz related to game and time management. Those issues will now be handled by head coach Rod Marinelli.

I'd sign Warner to a one year Garcia type deal. I would make sure Martz lets Joey have a fair shake in the offense though, as Kurt is not a long term solution.

I'd rather get Jamie Martin or Josh McCown for a few years in hopes that we have a longer term fallback if Joey still sucks.

Dont sleep on Josh Mccown....

i like that guy

Like Chris said, Warner is not a long-term answer but I wouldn't mind if we gave him a one-year contract.

BTW Shouldn't this belong in th QB thread: http://wtfdetroit.com/viewtopic.php?t=188

This won't shock anyone, but I'm extremely comfortable giving Joey one more year, especially with a new system that should fit his abilities better. We have Orlovsky for injury backup. Outside of that, I say we go with Brodie Croyle as #3 unless he's gone after day 1.

Martz is good news for Harrington

I imagine he's nursing a hangover this morning. I imagine that when the news broke late Wednesday afternoon, he was so happy that he went straight to his favorite Greek Town tavern, opened a tab, and by the time the bartender rang last call he was dancing on the bar wondering if it was his birthday.

"You mean I got Mike Martz coaching me?" I imagine Joey Harrington saying. "Barkeep, make that two more shots."

Of course, Harrington probably didn't get hammered Wednesday night. But I would have. Harrington's career might have been saved when Mike Martz finally agreed to terms to join the Lions as offensive coordinator. Harrington is getting his generation's premier quarterbacks coach as his mentor.

Nobody since Joe Gibbs (three Super Bowl wins with three different QBs) and Bill Walsh (enough said) has been as good at developing quarterbacks as Martz. In 1999, he had Trent Green, an eight-round pick, hitting something like 80 percent of his passes until he went down in a preseason game. In came Kurt Warner, who two years earlier was an Arena League star, and Warner goes on to win NFL MVP, Super Bowl MVP, and leave St. Louis as the league's all-time highest-rated passer, not to mention the league's most accurate thrower of all time.

After Warner comes third-stringer Marc Bulger, a sixth-rounder who was released by the Saints, Rams and Falcons before returning to St. Louis. In his first season playing pro football, he completed 64 percent of his passes and threw 2.3 TDs for every pick.

All told, Martz has called the plays for some of the most prolific offenses the league has ever witnessed.

Enter Harrington. In four seasons, he hasn't done much to inspire a lot of confidence. His winning percentage is awful. He has never completed more than 57 percent of his passes in a season, and only once in four years has he thrown more TD passes than INTs.

Now we'll find out if Harrington can play. Martz is as hard on his quarterbacks as anyone. A few years ago Bulger told me the litany of four-letter words Martz would scream at him during practice -- and that was often after a completion. Fair or not, scouts question Harrington's mental toughness and wonder if he has the stomach to consistently win games.

Martz will pound Harrington with new fundamentals. Harrington will have to make the quick reads of a West Coast offense with downfield throws that leave you exposed to wicked hits. Martz will tinker with his scheme to make it fit Harrington's abilities, but for the most part you'll see what Martz does so well: empty every possible receiver into patterns, mostly deep crossing routes and comebacks, and let his QB fling it.

We'll see if Harrington can.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=wickersham_seth#20060209

[size=18]Martz will tinker with his scheme to make it fit Harrington's abilities, but for the most part you'll see what Martz does so well: empty every possible receiver into patterns, mostly deep crossing routes and comebacks, and let his QB fling it.

We'll see if Harrington can.


I think our WR's are perfect for those. Big targets that can stretch the field. It seems like the only downfield passes we threw with Mooch were along the sidelines where Joey didn't even have room most of the time.

I would like Jacobs, but I'm a scrambling QB guy. I think the Lions need someone like that with their horrid offensive line. Something needs to be done. Joey has proven time and time again (3 coaches now) that he just can't get it done.

I'm hearing good things about Jay Cutler from Vandy. Take him at #9 maybe?

3 things:

Scrambling, fine with me, a 'runner'(Vick, V. Young, etc.) hasn't ever done shit in the NFL though, so I don't want one of those.

Jacobs runs in the 4.4-4.5 range, but is a good enough passer he doesn't use it much.

Cutler? Think McMahon except less 'athletic', but a better arm. Can throw a mile, and runs a 4.6ish, but has never won, has iffy at best completion %, TD/INT, etc. numbers. I wouldn't mind him around rounds 3-4, but at the mid-high first he is projected at I wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole.

http://www.brianbehrend.com/links/images/simms_bucs.jpg

http://www.joeyharrington3.com/prodimages/TradingCard.jpg

http://www.brianbehrend.com/links/images/simms_bucs.jpg

Simms is a Restricted FA which means we will have to give up atleast a 3rd rounder but more likely a 1st rounder. We have too many holes to give up a draft pick, especially in a draft with level and amount of talent.

This won't shock anyone, but I'm extremely comfortable giving Joey one more year, especially with a new system that should fit his abilities better. We have Orlovsky for injury backup. Outside of that, I say we go with Brodie Croyle as #3 unless he's gone after day 1.

Oh fuck, here we go again. lol

I don't know how ANYBODY can say that they are "comfortable" with Joey, let alone "extremely comfortable".

I might go along with "hopeful" or maybe even "optimistic", but "comfortable"?

Teflon Joey lives on!!

I'm confortable having Joey here.

I am not comfortable without getting a decent backup/fallback plan for him (Warner/Kitna/McCown/Schaub).

I'm confortable having Joey here.

I am not comfortable without getting a decent backup/fallback plan for him (Warner/Kitna/McCown/Schaub).

See, you still can't say that you are "comfortable". lol

haha. I guess I am definately optimistic. And I would be comfortable if we got a guy like McCown in here as insurance.

Let me put it this way - it could be worse. At least we know that if Joey sucks again this year we'll get a ton of cap relief next season when he's let go.

Detroit -- Joey Harrington has already gone through two head coaches and now has the chance to be coached by Mike Martz as his offensive coordinator under new head coach Rod Marinelli. Martz has worked wonders with undrafted QBs Kurt Warner and Marc Bulger. Martz may be in Detroit a very short time before he gets another head coaching position, but I would take one more look at Harrington if I were Matt Millen and the staff. The last thing I would want to see is Harrington blossom somewhere else like Jake Plummer did in Denver.
http://nfl.com/news/story/9230761

We can rule out Kurt Warner coming to Detroit. He just resigned to a 3 year deal with the Cardinals.

^^^^thank god

^^^^thank god

Agreed.

^^^^thank god

I'm sure he and his thumper of a wife did exactly that.

^^^^thank god

I'm sure he and his thumper of a wife did exactly that.

Wow. Glenn was feeling it.

By the way, 3 year deal for Warner? Does that sound more than a bit stupid on Arizona's part? Unless the money is tiny, who in their right mind expects him to be playing 3 years from now?

They'll probably dick him over and cut him as soon as they find something better.

I wonder what % of NFL contracts are actually fulfilled as promised?

^^^^thank god

I'm sure he and his thumper of a wife did exactly that.

Wow. Glenn was feeling it.

By the way, 3 year deal for Warner? Does that sound more than a bit stupid on Arizona's part? Unless the money is tiny, who in their right mind expects him to be playing 3 years from now?

NFL contracts are not guarenteed anyway. They can cut him after a year and not pay him. All that they have to pay is the signing bonus. If his signing bonus is low, he'd be easy to cut.

That's why Charles Rogers is cheap this year. His base deal isn't that big, but his bonus was. He had to forfiet a large part of that from his drug suspension.

I think Warner is going to be concussed more times that he finds the endzone. Hell be forced to retire due to injurys at the end of this season. Lock it.

Kiper keeps posting Cutler as the Lion's first pick and I pray that he is wrong.

Besides, looks like Joey is going to get another shot with the way Martz is talking about a fresh start for Joey with a new offense that he brings in

Kiper keeps posting Cutler as the Lion's first pick and I pray that he is wrong.


I hope so too. If everyone buys into the hype, what are the chances Cutler is gone anyway?

The Jets, Raiders and Bills all need a franchise QB still.

So Culpepper can be had for a 2nd round pick? I assume that you'd have to have a bunch of cap room to take advantage of that.

I hear Chad Pennington might get released, as he refused today to restructure. If his shoulder looks good, he could be a steal for somebody.

I wonder if KC is still interested in Joey, even with a new regime? I'd love to see what Trent Green could do here with Martz. Rogers & Joey for Green anyone?

I think KC wanted Joey to pair with Green. And maybe Vermiel or Saunders wanted him. With a coaching change they might not be interested anymore.

We should trade our first for Minny's first and Culpepper. The difference between #9 and #17 is a mid second rounder anyway.

That way we can take Justice, McNiel or Scott later in the first instead of reaching for them, and we get a free pro bowl QB for it. It's no risk for us really IMO.

Wouldn't we have to cut a bunch of players to have the cap room, or at least not be able to sign anyone new to a deal more than the league minimum?

I don't know shit about the NFL cap rules, but I know that there is a reason that not a lot of big name guys get traded, or any guys for that matter.

Wouldn't we have to cut a bunch of players to have the cap room, or at least not be able to sign anyone new to a deal more than the league minimum?

I don't know shit about the NFL cap rules, but I know that there is a reason that not a lot of big name guys get traded, or any guys for that matter.

We would have to be under the cap, yes. I'm not sure how much space the Lions have. It would likely mean cutting either Joey, Bryant or not resigning Backus though. Minny is desperate for CB's, so we could probably add Bryant into the deal. I'll have to find the numbers (isn't as easy as bball).

Actually, we have 9 mil in cap room this year. That probably doesn't include Backus or Edwards though (FA's). So, we'd have to dump Bryant or get Joey to restructure (not sure why he would though). Dante has 9 years left on his deal, which makes him a big money risk if he's damaged for his career.

I like this option myself if Griese gets cut:


Tampa Bay Buccaneers ($8 M over cap)
The Bucs ended the regular season with the #1 defense in the NFL. Small wonder, then, that 6 of the 7 highest paid players on the team heading into 2006 play on the defensive side of the ball. That 7th player, Brian Griese, could very well become a cap casualty, considering the emergence of Chris Simms. Of course, the team must make a decision on Simms too, as he is set to become a restricted free agent in March.

Say no to Culpepper.

Reports are that he might not be back until mid-season. And no one knows how the surgery will affect his play.

I absolutely do not want Culpepper. How can anyone playing like shit before he gets injured and has a major knee injury think he can come back and tell the organization that he wants more money.

I also am comfortable with bringing Joey back even at 8.5 million since we got Martz. Martz will give Joey a look and if he thinks Joey is a player, i have complete faith in that. He took bums and made them MVP of the league.

I wouldnt trade anything for the backups any of you mentioned. We have too many needs and already dont have a 4th and 7th rounder. We need to parlay our first into a couple of picks. This draft is so deep through 3 rounds that we need more picks.

Miami is looking hard at Cutler. I would love to trade down and take their 1st and 2nd from them. We could still get the OT/DE we need and add another second.

Anyone seen that Comartrie player from FSU. He could be the real deal on the other side of Bly, cut Bryant and our secondary is in godo shape.

I also like Huff in the first round at 9 if we stay there and use our 2nd for an OL.


Art

[smilie=joeyballgam: [smilie=joeyrules.g:

I like Cromartie a lot, but he blew out his ACL. If he proves he can run, I like him.

Drew Brees might be available.

Brees and Griese are the best options IMO. In either case Joey would be gone and we'd have to address the backup spot though.

I also endorse trading down with Miami, Baltimore or any other team that wants Cutler.

With Pennington cut, is there a chance he goes that high? I really don't see why the Titans would take a QB with McNair and Volek there (unless they can get a pick for Volek). I see them taking Brick, and the Jets getting Young or Lienart (whichever is there). So I think Cutler will still be there (unless Oakland is real unhappy with Collins).

Talk Scott Mitchell out of retirement.

Lions officials say Harrington is their QB

Mike O'Hara The Detroit News

ALLEN PARK -- The Detroit Lions are going into free-agency and the draft with the feeling that Joey Harrington is their starting quarterback.

Head coach Rod Marinelli and Lions president Matt Millen gave strong support to Harrington as the starter Tuesday is an interview with beat writers.

Harrington's status has grown stronger, with input from Mike Martz, who was hired as offensive coordinator on Feb. 7.

"We all sat down and watched him," Marinelli said. "He (Martz) sees a lot of really good, positive things from this guy -- a lot of skill, a lot of things that we like. We're just moving right down the road with him. We're going to coach this guy real hard.

"Off of film, you can see all the upside to him -- tremendous upside. As of right now, there's a very good feeling about him."

Harrington's contract it not an issue, Millen said. Harrington has two years left on his contract, and a bonus payment of $4 million is due on June 15 -- well after the draft (April 29-30) and the free-agent signing period, which begins March 3. The timing of the bonus gives no leverage to Harrington.

Millen has been a strong supporter of Harrington's since drafting him on the first round in 2002 but has given Marinelli a free hand in choosing a starter.

"I think we have our starter," Millen said.

The Lions will not hesitate to designate free-agent offensive tackle Jeff Backus as their transition or franchise player by the 4 p.m. deadline Thursday, Millen said. Both tags would give the Lions leverage to retain the rights to Backus in free-agency.

The Lions are trying to work out a contract with Backus in advance of Thursday's deadline, Millen said. Backus has started 80 straight games since the Lions drafted him on the first round in 2001.

There was talk about this on sportsinferno.com, and I seem to be in a minority. Maybe Joey's NOT the answer, and maybe he is under Martz.. but at least the Lions are showing some decisiveness instead of playing the QB switch and screwing with Joey's head.

Give him the reigns, let's see what he can do. Anyone who said Joey's had a fair shake it lying to themselves.

Brees and Griese are the best options IMO. In either case Joey would be gone and we'd have to address the backup spot though.


Brees is the best QB out on the market, so we should atleast take a look at him.

But I just can't see it working. If we were to sign Brees, it would mean cutting Harrington and taking a cap hit. But that would leave us with no money to sign FA's including a backup QB.


I also endorse trading down with Miami, Baltimore or any other team that wants Cutler.

With Pennington cut, is there a chance he goes that high? I really don't see why the Titans would take a QB with McNair and Volek there (unless they can get a pick for Volek). I see them taking Brick, and the Jets getting Young or Lienart (whichever is there). So I think Cutler will still be there (unless Oakland is real unhappy with Collins).

I can definitely see NY entertaining the thought of taking Cutler. His stock has improved consideribly since the Senior Bowl and with a good workout at the Combine, he could propel himself into the Top5.

As far the Titans, McNair is due a huge bonus and the Titans are in salary cap trouble. So they might be forced to do some cost-cutting moves.

Brees and Griese are the best options IMO. In either case Joey would be gone and we'd have to address the backup spot though.


Brees is the best QB out on the market, so we should atleast take a look at him.

But I just can't see it working. If we were to sign Brees, it would mean cutting Harrington and taking a cap hit. But that would leave us with no money to sign FA's including a backup QB.


Good point. I suppose we could trade Joey for a day 2 pick. He only has one more year on his deal anyway, so the cap hit wouldn't be much for another team. Plus we'd still eat the signing bonus. Basically both teams would be on the hook for 4 million bucks. Warner signed for that much, so I see no reason why a team wouldn't take a chance on Joey for that price for a year or two.

Lions officials say Harrington is their QB

And with that I say, "It's good to be a Steeler fan".

Wednesday, February 22, 2006

USA Today: Harrington is NFL's second-highest paid QB
In a USA Today story about what it means to franchise tag a player, they break down the cost of each position. The franchise tag is the average of the top five players at their position. The transition is the average of the top 10. Joey Harrington is the second-highest paid QB in the NFL.


Feb. 21, USA Today: Brett Favre, Green Bay $10,133,333; Joey Harrington, Detroit $8,493,750; Daunte Culpepper, Minnesota $8,461,565; Peyton Manning, Indianapolis $8,431,666; Tom Brady, New England $8,423,750; Carson Palmer, Cincinnati $8,180,000; Michael Vick, Atlanta $7,992,857; Donovan McNabb, Philadelphia $7,861,055; David Carr, Houston $7,804,166; Aaron Brooks, New Orleans $7,483,333.
Franchise: $8,789,000
Transition: $8,327,000


This is just sad [smilie=joeyrules.g:

I still haven't figured out why we didn't rework his dea last year, when Joey offered to take a paycut.

How can he make more than Carr when he was picked two spots after Carr? What kind of shitty deal did we agree to? I would expect him to be in line with Brooks on there.

I'm sure Carr's total deal was much more, we just structured ours differently. It was probably a smart move, cause then if he was just a total bust we could have cut him before his deal got to this point.....HEY, wait a minute!!!!!!!!!! [smilie=angryfire.g:

From Mlive

Friday, March 03, 2006

Lions sign QB Shaun King
The St. Petersburg Times is reporting that the Lions have signed former Tampa Bay Bucs quarterback Shaun King.


King, 28, will be reunited with first-year Lions coach Rod Marinelli, who served as Bucs defensive line coach for 10 seasons. King worked out for new Lions offensive coordinator Mike Martz.

[smilie=angryfire.g:

WTF?

Lame.

Please don't tell me Mari-nellie is going Mari-uchi and signing his former washed up players he coached. Nellie gets no more Bucs to bring over unless it's Brooks or Rice.

KING OF THE JUNGLE BABY!!!!!!


YES!!!!!

The bigger question is who's the #2 QB? You telling me that Orlovsky is now 2? Better than King being 2.

I full expect all 3 QBs to be in the pro bowl.



Martz is a QB GENIUS!

I really hope that this is just somebody doing King a favor so he can get a look from another team after the Lions cut him.

Please?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!


SHAUN KING IS THE WORST QB OF ALL-TIME.

HE'S THE SCOTT HASTINGS OF QUARTERBACKS.

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

What the fuck? Are you fucking kidding me?

We could have done A LOT better than this.

Wow.....

Should we just go ahead and lock this sumbitch up now that Shaun is here to save the day?

I really hope that this is just somebody doing King a favor so he can get a look from another team after the Lions cut him.

Please?

I imagine that's the case. He could easily still be cut after camp.

What? Why not wait a few days until Griese is cut? So we have no #1 QB, and two #3 QB's now. Great.

This is gayer than Brokeback Mountain.

I really hope that this is just somebody doing King a favor so he can get a look from another team after the Lions cut him.

Please?

I imagine that's the case. He could easily still be cut after camp.

But the sad part is you can totally see King running the Lions offense too.

I don't understand this signing at all.

But isn't this the same guy we brought in last season after Garcia went down? So somebody in the organization must like him.

This thread is past its useful life and therefore Unstickied. [smilie=wink.gif]

The only good thing about King being signed is that it means %100 that Martz thinks Joey can be a true winner. They wouldn't waste the third QB spot on King unless they knew Joey would succeed.

Whether or not he does succeed we shall see. But at least we know the coach is in his corner.

According to the Killer:


Friday, March 03, 2006

Why the Lions signed Shaun King
The signing of Shaun King was a good move for two reasons, but you have to understand two other things: Dan Orlovsky is not in danger of getting cut and the Lions still intend on finding a veteran free agent quarterback for the No. 2 position.

The reason the King signing is smart is because, instead of an undrafted free agent rookie coming in at No. 4, the Lions will have a veteran who will elevate the level of competition from top to bottom throughout camp. More importantly, King will have a deep understanding of Detroit's offense and, if he doesn't make the team, he might be available down the road in case of injury.

Makes sence. It's only a 1 year deal, so they can put him or Dan on the practice squad anyway and not develop 2 QB's (Dan O and a draft pick).

Soon-to-be ex-'Skin Ramsey to visit Jets, Miami, Lions

The Redskins have given quarterback Patrick Ramsey permission to visit the New York Jets, Detroit Lions and the Miami Dolphins as part of a possible trade.

Ramsey has been shopped in trade discussions over the past few weeks but the Redskins had been asking for a second-round pick. Now, he likely will be traded in the next week for a draft choice in the second day of the draft.

Ramsey is in New York visiting the Jets on Wednesday and is in the process of scheduling visits with the Lions and Dolphins.

A former first-round choice, Ramsey lost the Redskins starting quarterback job to Mark Brunell in the past two seasons under Joe Gibbs.

The Redskins are trying to develop first-round choice Jason Campbell into a starter this season so moving Ramsey will give Campbell a better chance to develop and get time in practice and in games.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2359635

A lot of NFL people really like Ramsey. I'd think he'd be worth a day 2 pick. Certainly better than Shaun King.

2nd day, yes. 2nd round, not a chance. This guy has proven less than Joey - and that's not an easy thing to do. While I like what it would do for our depth of talent at the position, the QB controversy would never end.

They actually think they can get a 2nd rounder for him? If teams are willing to spend a second rounder on a QB, they would draft Jacobs or Croyle or another QB...or trade for Schaub, Volek or even Culpepper before Ramsey.

If you read closely, they USED to think they could get that, but now they're thinking it might just be a 2nd DAY pick.

That's key.^

Given the Redskins' cap situation, they might even be forced to cut him.

Given the Redskins' cap situation, they might even be forced to cut him.

great point. I wouldn't trade for any player until after every team complies with the cap (whatever it is).

Brian Griese might be available.