It's pretty clear that Delfino should be given the majority of the minutes backing up Rip and Tay...not Evans. I like both players, but Carlos is just so talented.

Discuss.

Tonight it seemed that way. Mo has played well for us this year, so I would have to see Delfino pull off this performance a few more times before I came to your judgment. But he's taken a big first step.

It's a relief to know we've got a decent player on the bench. Also want to see what Maxiell can do. Busto shouldn't even see the floor, IMO. We should just pretend that he's dead.

Evans has been gaining on me lately. He is been showing more of a well rounded game that I didn't think he had. He is still lacking on the defensive end though, as is Delfino. I always felt that Delfino, given time, would be better than Evans. But the problem is that Delfino is at his best handling the ball. The problem is that he rarely gets the opportunity to do so.

If you asked me this question a few games back, I would say Delfino should be getting more minutes. But Evans has been nothing short of spectacular lately, so I will reserve my judgement until one of them seperates themselves above the other.

It's a difficult situation. If you give both guys 100 minutes, you're going to get about 35 points from them. The reason Evans is more likely to get in, is because he'll get you 7 points every 20 minutes, while Delfino will give you 4, then 3, then 2, then 16, then 10. Flip would like the consistant guy that he knows will get the boards, play strong D, etc. Delfino can break out and do more offensively, but you never know if you'll get that or a dud.
(pause)
Ok, I was throwing numbers around and I decided I should try to back my argument up. The best way I could think of to do that was to compare their "per 48 minutes" numbers.
Points: Mo 18.3 vs Los 14.4
Rebounds: Mo 8.1 vs Los 7.4
Assists: Los 3.1 vs Mo 1.9
Steals: Mo 1.9 vs Los .44
Blocks: Mo .89 vs Los .65
Turnovers: Mo 1.8 vs Los 3.3
The 7 most obvious categories and in 6 of them, given the same playing time, Evans has a strong advantage over Delfino. And while Delfino has more assists, Evans has the better assist/TO ratio (1.06 vs .93).
The numbers don't include tonights game over Miami, but Delfino didn't outperform Evans dramatically. He scored 5, while Evans (playing 3 fewer minutes) didn't score only taking 1 shot. But the rest of the stat column was completely empty for Delfino, while Evans had an offensive rebound, an assist and a steal. I don't think you can say Delfino is >>>> based on that, and the rest of the numbers don't back it up either.
Let's just say this, it's nice that we can have this debate. It means we have 2 guys that can back-up both the 2 and the 3 effectively. That's something most teams in the league don't have. Down the stretch in March, we might get to see one or both start every now and then if we have a firm hold on the best record but 72 is out of reach. That will be very interesting.

Same player to me. Delfino seems to be a bit more Mobile than Evans. Both are good off the bench. Both will be used. Pistons will win the championship, we will celebrate.

Delfino is a better dribbler, driver, and can pull off some offense once he hits his peak, has the skillz to be a solid defensive rebounder, and can handle the ball as good as anybody at his position.

evans is a spot up shooter. can finish off a good pass, and a good rebounder on both ends. also has no real ball handling skillz

they really arent the same to me. IMO they both should get time but Delfino is better all around.

That's a good point.

Delfino and Evans are totally different type of players in terms of what they do and how they do it.

Evans will crash the boards (especially Offensive boards) everytime someone launches a shot and he will go after every loose ball that he can. He is the kind of player than can play 3 mintues and still make a contibution. Delfino is like the polar opposite of that. Delfino doesn't make as much of a difference as Evans does on the boards and on loose balls. But Defino could be more valuable because of his all around ability (primarily scoring and ball handling).

But the caveat is that Evans will be effective no matter how many minutes he plays because of his playing style. Whereas with Delfino, he won't be as effective as Evans unless he is playing big minutes because he needs time to get into a rhythm before he is effective. That's the one thing that's holding back Delfino right now. Evans can get in a game and make an immediate impact with his hustle and energy but Delfino needs time to settle down and assert himself. If he can learn to be effective no matter how many minutes he plays, he will be better than Evans until than Evans has the upper hand.

to be fair H1man, i've seen evans stink it up too in short minutes(minutes that became shorter via his stinking). and delfino is slightly better than him on defense.

actually this past month its been evans lack of consistent play thats gotten delfino a shot at more minutes. delfino could've been much shorter of minutes if evans brought any level of consistency.

with that said i like both guys. but delfino may be an important key to us by the playoffs on offense.

i mean if delfino can keep gradually improving as an offensive threat, it could increase our offense into the 105+ points per game and actually make us even tougher to beat.

I think that Delfino is a better player than Evans. Iv always loved del though. I followed em ever since we drafted him w/ darko. Im prolly the only guy thats got a Pistons Delfino jersey.

I still think his ability to put the ball on the floor makes him better than Evans. Evans seems to shoot the ball everytime he catches it...while delfino is mostly looking to set other people up.

The only issue with delfino is that he needs to drive to the hoop more...he sets up for jump shots allota the time...and i think that if he did driving on a consistant basis then he WOULD be cemented into the rotation for 20mpg

I'd just play the hot hand each night. It's nice to have both available to us.

Delfino is more of the kind of player you'd like to have fill in for RIP or Tay if they are hurt or need a night off. He can provide a lot, but is better with more minutes and shots, etc to get rolling.

Evans is the better role player and is more consistant every night. Ideally I would play him first, and use Delfino if you are short a starter.

Hopefully one of them shows they can guard the Tmac's of the world and we can use both more (and rest Tay some).

Del definitely showed the spark last night. Evans has moved up on my list with providing high-energy to the Spurs game, but for more ball movement and handling, Del's the man.

I'd take Del a little bit over Evans, but not much.

I like Delfino more than Evans just because of his poise on the court. He seems more relaxed. I say use them both more and give our starters a little more rest. I'd be happy if our starters were down to 34 mpg. Lets see what these back ups can do before the trade deadline.

I like Delfino more than Evans just because of his poise on the court. He seems more relaxed. I say use them both more and give our starters a little more rest. I'd be happy if our starters were down to 34 mpg. Lets see what these back ups can do before the trade deadline.
our starters will never get down that low. honestly the only starter im worried about is prince. he is way too high in minutes.

to be fair H1man, i've seen evans stink it up too in short minutes(minutes that became shorter via his stinking). and delfino is slightly better than him on defense.

actually this past month its been evans lack of consistent play thats gotten delfino a shot at more minutes. delfino could've been much shorter of minutes if evans brought any level of consistency.

with that said i like both guys. but delfino may be an important key to us by the playoffs on offense.

i mean if delfino can keep gradually improving as an offensive threat, it could increase our offense into the 105+ points per game and actually make us even tougher to beat.

Both play pretty weak D, so I'm not sure if you can say one is better than the other. I'd day Evans is better because he's strong and less likely to get pushed around.

it seems Evans can't stay in front of anyone, though. Delfino, IMO, definitely does a better job of that. It's not like Delfino is a lot weaker than Evans--Delfino has a strong build as well. In the beginning of the season, I actually mistook him for Darko on the floor once or twice. Now, Darko isn't that built, but he's reasonably big being over 7 feet. What I'm saying is Delfino is a big boy and has some decent strength, and probably isn't much weaker than Evans if at all. Evans was complete shit against the Cavs. Everytime we started a mini-run, he'd jack up a three that was a foot off the mark. I don't know... I guess that made me a little bitter.

to be fair H1man, i've seen evans stink it up too in short minutes(minutes that became shorter via his stinking). and delfino is slightly better than him on defense.

actually this past month its been evans lack of consistent play thats gotten delfino a shot at more minutes. delfino could've been much shorter of minutes if evans brought any level of consistency.

with that said i like both guys. but delfino may be an important key to us by the playoffs on offense.

i mean if delfino can keep gradually improving as an offensive threat, it could increase our offense into the 105+ points per game and actually make us even tougher to beat.

Both play pretty weak D, so I'm not sure if you can say one is better than the other. I'd day Evans is better because he's strong and less likely to get pushed around.
naw delfino has looked better. atleasty against SF's. even if slightly. and evans hhas a tendency to foul after they put up the shot.

Evans was complete shit against the Cavs. Everytime we started a mini-run, he'd jack up a three that was a foot off the mark. I don't know... I guess that made me a little bitter.

yea his unvariated offensive abilities have that effect at times. but he'll be aight.

i do think flip has issues with personel adjustments sometimes. like he feels a need to be loyal to evans minutes even when delfino is outplaying him(except on a couple ocasions).

i do think flip has issues with personel adjustments sometimes. like he feels a need to be loyal to evans minutes even when delfino is outplaying him(except on a couple ocasions).

I think part of the reason why Flip plays Evans so much has to do with the fact that Evans played for Flip in Minnesota.

i do think flip has issues with personel adjustments sometimes. like he feels a need to be loyal to evans minutes even when delfino is outplaying him(except on a couple ocasions).

I think part of the reason why Flip plays Evans so much has to do with the fact that Evans played for Flip in Minnesota.
very true. regardless of how much people knock LB for it, every coach has their favorites they give an extra benefit of the doubt to in certain scenarios.

i just hope Flip doesnt get as stubborn as brown can get with it because i truly think that if our bench is ever gonna pick up the scoring slack, that he will need be a vital part by late season and the playoffs..

i don't think delfino is better then evans.

evans is more consistent at knocking down the three, and more consistent at getting looks at the three.

He hits the glass as hard as anyone else in the league his size.

he hustles more then anyone else on the bench.



but with all that said it's still close, and that says alot about delfino being better then we thought he would be for us at the start of the season.

ummm koolaid have you been watching evans of late? that 3 pointer hasnt been looking as hot as it did a month ago. and its asll he has on offense.

Delfino can hit the 3 too. but its not his trademark. that would be slashing penetration, passing, ballhandling, and an ability to get his own shot.

all things that mo evans lacks. evans has been far from consistent and like i said before, Flip is giving him extra benefit of the doubt over delfino actually. even with that carlos has slowly gotten some of evans minutes. if evans even played just as good as delfino let alone better then delfino would almost never see the court. but because of his inconsistency, its opened up more playing time for carlos.

dont get me wrong evans is a solid ok role player. but he isnt better than delfino. if he didnt play for flip in minny, i doubt he'd get in the game as much as he does. but nevertheless its no knock on him, he just shouldnt get more minutes than delfino IMO.

but with all that said it's still close, and that says alot about delfino being better then we thought he would be for us at the start of the season.
honestly i never questioned the kid's abilities and how good he can be. IMO barring injury he can be our second biggest threat off the bench by late season. the only i questioned was his constant whining and whether he was ever gonna completely heel in the knee.

before the injury he was on the verge of being a damn good player for us. i dont see why that wouldnt happen this year if he stays healthy.

Delfino is a better dribbler, driver, and can pull off some offense once he hits his peak, has the skillz to be a solid defensive rebounder, and can handle the ball as good as anybody at his position.

evans is a spot up shooter. can finish off a good pass, and a good rebounder on both ends. also has no real ball handling skillz

they really arent the same to me. IMO they both should get time

Exactly. When they need pure hustle, rebounds, floor burns - an energy spark plug - they should put in Evans.

When they need shooting, ball handling, etc., they need Delfino.

Mark it down, Delfino's career will somewhat mirror that of Okur's in the sense that his game will take off once he goes to a situation that allows him to play 25+ a game. His skillset is tremendous but you can just tell that he needs to locate a rhythm to play at his best.

It's pretty clear that Delfino should be given the majority of the minutes backing up Rip and Tay...not Evans. I like both players, but Carlos is just so talented.

Discuss.

the point of the NBA is that you are not given anything. I think if Delfino would work HALF as hard as Evans he might see his playing time increase. The guy just dogs it too much

It's pretty clear that Delfino should be given the majority of the minutes backing up Rip and Tay...not Evans. I like both players, but Carlos is just so talented.

Discuss.

the point of the NBA is that you are not given anything. I think if Delfino would work HALF as hard as Evans he might see his playing time increase. The guy just dogs it too much
actually he has been earning it. in fact like i said before he's been slowly stealing minutes from the inconsistent evans who hasnt had to earn his spot as much because Flip likes him and is giving him more of a chance than he's earned. delfino for atleast the last month has played better than evans in my opinion and would see even more time if evans wasnt favored by the coach. it is what it is. im just happy flip isnt too stubborn to slowly break down and give delfino more minutes as he starts to surpass evans in play.

Delfino is a better dribbler, driver, and can pull off some offense once he hits his peak, has the skillz to be a solid defensive rebounder, and can handle the ball as good as anybody at his position.

evans is a spot up shooter. can finish off a good pass, and a good rebounder on both ends. also has no real ball handling skillz

they really arent the same to me. IMO they both should get time

Exactly. When they need pure hustle, rebounds, floor burns - an energy spark plug - they should put in Evans.

When they need shooting, ball handling, etc., they need Delfino.

If DelFino continues to hustle they way he has been the past few games I am not sure if this still holds true. It appears that DelFino can provide just as much energy and hustle as Evans, but without that broken looking shot.

As i said before i think delfino is better.

I also think that one of these players is going to be moved at some point. Seems like either one or the other gets all the backup minutes in a game. Its almost like their auditioning for the role.

I dont really know what we would be able to get for either of those guys, but it seems kinda pointless to have both of em when theirs so few minutes to go around as it is.

Evans has barely been able to cling to a spot on ANY NBA roster in his entire career.

He now has a guaranteed contract and a role, albiet not a huge role.

Why do we need to get rid of him just because Delfino is playing well?

We can stash him on the back of the bench for the next three years, and he would be happy to have a job in the NBA and a guaranteed contract.

I think people worry a bit too much sometimes.

And why would we move either player? Wasn't a few good wing players something we needed?

I wouldn't trade either unless we get a wing that can guard SF's consistantly. I'm hoping that Evans or Delfino can learn to do that (both are young still) and we won't need one. But as it stands Tay doesn't really have a backup most nights.

And why would we move either player? Wasn't a few good wing players something we needed?
true enough. it was by far our weakest depth position lasdt year

ummm koolaid have you been watching evans of late? that 3 pointer hasnt been looking as hot as it did a month ago. and its asll he has on offense.

Delfino can hit the 3 too. but its not his trademark. that would be slashing penetration, passing, ballhandling, and an ability to get his own shot.

all things that mo evans lacks. evans has been far from consistent and like i said before, Flip is giving him extra benefit of the doubt over delfino actually. even with that carlos has slowly gotten some of evans minutes. if evans even played just as good as delfino let alone better then delfino would almost never see the court. but because of his inconsistency, its opened up more playing time for carlos.

dont get me wrong evans is a solid ok role player. but he isnt better than delfino. if he didnt play for flip in minny, i doubt he'd get in the game as much as he does. but nevertheless its no knock on him, he just shouldnt get more minutes than delfino IMO.


it's true evans hasn't been hitting threes like he was at the start. I can deal with the inconsistency though, he still needs minutes. he's shown he can hit the three, delfino hasn't shown that he can do it as well as evans. delfino is definitely better at driving, but evans has more size and athleticism.

i'll say it like this, delfino is the more consistant guy but evans is 10 times better when he's hot. The only way to know if he's got going that night is to play him though, so he needs a few minutes.



one thing is for damn sure though. these two guys should never be on the court at the same time.

ummm koolaid have you been watching evans of late? that 3 pointer hasnt been looking as hot as it did a month ago. and its asll he has on offense.

Delfino can hit the 3 too. but its not his trademark. that would be slashing penetration, passing, ballhandling, and an ability to get his own shot.

all things that mo evans lacks. evans has been far from consistent and like i said before, Flip is giving him extra benefit of the doubt over delfino actually. even with that carlos has slowly gotten some of evans minutes. if evans even played just as good as delfino let alone better then delfino would almost never see the court. but because of his inconsistency, its opened up more playing time for carlos.

dont get me wrong evans is a solid ok role player. but he isnt better than delfino. if he didnt play for flip in minny, i doubt he'd get in the game as much as he does. but nevertheless its no knock on him, he just shouldnt get more minutes than delfino IMO.


it's true evans hasn't been hitting threes like he was at the start. I can deal with the inconsistency though, he still needs minutes. he's shown he can hit the three, delfino hasn't shown that he can do it as well as evans. delfino is definitely better at driving, but evans has more size and athleticism.

i'll say it like this, delfino is the more consistant guy but evans is 10 times better when he's hot. The only way to know if he's got going that night is to play him though, so he needs a few minutes.



one thing is for damn sure though. these two guys should never be on the court at the same time.
delfino has been solid. as far as not hitting enough shots, he's hitting more than evans as of late and is doing alot more on offense actually with solid passes, ballhandling, not turning the ball over like evans can with his bad ballhandling skillz, he's even running the fastbreaks better as of late than evans.

and for the record evans hasnt been hot in a month so im surprised you remember what it looks like. you just like evans personally or dislike delfino personally. because to say you like a hot evans 10 times more than a hot delfino is favortism or you are totally ignoring the better movement we get on offense with delfino and the starters vs evans chillin at the 3 point line looking stupid when he's in there with the starters.

but like i said before, if evans was outplaying him, then delfino wouldnt be stealing more and more minutes from him every week. period. but just so we dont get offbase, i like evans, but he's not better than delfino and certainly isnt more valuble when he's hot than delfino when Delfino's hot. in fact im a annoyed that evans isnt trying to expand his game anymore. he tried to work on a post game earlier this season. but now he's scared to do anything but stand around until someone else passes to him for a spot up, or waits for them to shoots so he can run for a rebound.

Pistons
PISTONS CORNER: Delfino flies solo, watches minutes rise

January 6, 2006
BY CHRIS SILVA

FREE PRESS SPORTS WRITER

He stops whatever drill he's doing for a few seconds and peers over his shoulder to see what his teammates are up to. One day they're involved in a pickup game; the next, a game of horse.

Sometimes Carlos Delfino will join in. Other days, like Thursday, he'll resume his workout at an adjacent basket, where he's usually floating the perimeter, working on his jump shot, conducting drills by himself, quietly adding to his repertoire.

Delfino cherishes his time alone, yet he doesn't consider himself a loner.

"Every time I try to work alone, because when you work alone, you don't have any noise," Delfino said. "You can just focus on you. You focus on what you want."

What Delfino wants he has received: more playing time.

Since the Pistons' Dec. 14 game against Sacramento, Delfino has averaged 12.2 minutes per game, up from 9.2 minutes during the first 14 games of the season. He played 21 minutes against Chicago on Dec. 16 and 19 minutes against Golden State and Charlotte. Overall, he has averaged 3.2 points and 10.1 minutes.

So all that me-time has helped.

It's not that Delfino is some castoff. Practicing by himself is his choice. Returning to the Pistons' practice facility in the evenings, as he does at least twice a week, is also Delfino's decision. During those evenings, it's just Delfino and the shooting machine.

"For me, in Europe, I had two practices a day," Delfino said. "Here, we have one practice. Then when I'm alone and have no one at home, I worry, I don't know what to do. It's time to shoot. It's good for me because I work on my shot, I work on my knee. ... It's good for me. Every time I try to make some correction on my game." and because of this Delfino is getting better while evans is falling off

Delfino's ability to play shooting guard and small forward has given coach Flip Saunders flexibility. Saunders said Delfino practices hard even after games he didn't get off the bench, which has happened only four times this season.

"I think if a guy gets in the game and he's productive, then he's going to get more minutes," Saunders said. "That's what it's about. And it's that fine line: Do you become productive when you get minutes, or do you get minutes and then become productive? That's always the fine line between players and coaches."

Delfino has been on both sides of the line. He has taken advantage of what has been given to him, and he has worked hard for every minute he has received.

Yet heading back to work after the janitors have left has had its drawbacks.

"Sometimes I cannot shoot because the cheerleaders are working there, so I work here," Delfino said, pointing to the weight room behind the court.
2 things i gather from this is that delfino is a very hardworker. i can see why he got playing time even under brown when he was healthy, though brown lost favor with him for his lack of trying to play hurt after being injured.

the other thing i gathered is that the cheerleaders are on steroids.

Good article.

PS - Who's the chick in the avatar?

So much for the "Pussfino" bullshit... :roll:

Good article.

PS - Who's the chick in the avatar?
im too lazy to find her name but her muddy motif moved me. check the cleavage appreciation page for a couple others of her.

but to get back on topic, i hope delfino gets plenty of time against the spurs. i know him and ginobli are good friends and to get a shot at his olympic teammate might give him a lil' extra edge.

i was going to post that article, devinJ........great article on Delfino.

i think people were way too hard on Delfino last season about his knee injury. the dude has game and it looks like he's got a good work ethic. Delfino seems focused on getting better and becoming a very important part of this team......great news for us.

I was hard on Delfino last seaosn but have changed my tune.

I am an Evans fan but Delfino keeps improving with every game. I'd play Delfino before Evans.

I'm not impressed by either. Everything we were told about Delfino was that he was a lottery talent that slipped to us because of an ankle injury. I don't see that at all...

Yeah, but that's because your grumpy.

Go have some cheese

I think the recent trend is for posters to look at flash vs substance... they'll see Delfino do a nice cross over or make a spin move...
truth is he has a hard time finishing and has not show anywhere close to a consistent shot... or he'll dribble into traffic and get striped (ala Rip two years ago)
Then we hear about his defense getting better... as another opponent blows by him (Evans shares this problem)

Anyone being truly objective would say that we are lacking a dependable backup SF (Jethro's numbers don't lie)... this should be cause for concern if it doesn't improve before the playoffs.

My biggest concern is that "stick man" Tayshaun goes down and one of these defensive liabilities becomes a starter.

I think the recent trend is for posters to look at flash vs substance... they'll see Delfino do a nice cross over or make a spin move...
truth is he has a hard time finishing and has not show anywhere close to a consistent shot... or he'll dribble into traffic and get striped (ala Rip two years ago)
Then we hear about his defense getting better... as another opponent blows by him (Evans shares this problem)

Anyone being truly objective would say that we are lacking a dependable backup SF (Jethro's numbers don't lie)... this should be cause for concern if it doesn't improve before the playoffs.

My biggest concern is that "stick man" Tayshaun goes down and one of these defensive liabilities becomes a starter.
thats a prejudging assessment of why some people think delfino is getting better and has a serious shot at being an effective guy coming off the bench.

this aint no highlight reel fest. unfortunately stats dont tell the whole story. its not that cut and dry. Delfino has been much better on defense, he's moving around more aggressively in the offense, and he's looking for his shot a lil' more(though i still think he needs to drive and slash more).

he's been effective as a passer and he's only had 1 turnover in the past 7 games.

he has a better shot that what his percentages say(majority of his shots from the start of the season to early december came near the end of the shot clock or on him hoisting a quick long shot after differring as much as twice on the same play) and i think that will show when he gets more chances within the offense to do what he is capable of doing.

i wouldnt mind seeing flip run a couple ISO plays from the wing for him. i still think he needs to run a different set of plays when the bench is out there. delfino is coming off screens shooting and thats not really his game, its rips play more so. he's started to call more plays to suit dice when he's in. just need to do the same for delfino and evans eventually IMO.

i'm guessing you dont see what some of us see on the court from delfino. which is cool. but no need to figure ahead of time that we were watching highlights to come up with our take on how well he's improving his game, then hide behind the infamous "stats dont lie" cliche'. :? ..jim hollinger's flawed to death effiency system has proven that stats may not lie, but they can mislead from time to time.

i still don't see delfino as a 3 at all. he's a slashing 2 with a bit of point guard capabilties.

and evans is a 2/3. Same mold as a vince carter type of player.

i still don't see delfino as a 3 at all. he's a slashing 2 with a bit of point guard capabilties.

and evans is a 2/3. Same mold as a vince carter type of player.
carter can dribble so i dont see that mold. i get what you're saying though. but honestly evans really isnt a shooting guard. he is a 6ft 5in SF. you gotta have atleast average handles to be a shooting guard. shit lamar odom got a better dribble than him right now.

delfino is a natural 2. but so is ginobli who usually covers 3's most of the time with bowens on the other teams big scorer(which is usually a shooting guard). i dont think him playing the 3 is going to hurt him in the long run. it just isnt going to be the same as having "6ft 9in post game in his back pocket shot blocking" tayshan prince in. but how often do teams have that from to people playing the 3?

Bump.

when think of evans, i remember this one hustle play where he layed out to save a loose ball.

when i think of delfino, i remember him talking back to LB and sitting for the wrest of the game (arroyo and darko were involved too, darko giggled like a little girl, but arroyo obviously was interested in getting what LB was saying, not in being a dutsch. i really believe you learn alot about people from these little episodes).

i agree with what has been said already, mo's a good hustle player, delfino is only affective if we can get him into a rhythm.

i dont see why we dont experiment getting him 25 minutes a game for a week or two.

I don't agree with experimenting more minutes with Delfino because I think he needs to learn to be effective in his current role and given his current minutes.

Reguarding who should get the more minutes - I say you play the hot hand. Both have games where they look very good and then both have games whenre they are useless.

I like the fact that Delfino had his best game right after Evans had his best game as a Piston. It shows me that they are both fighting to be the primary backup spot rather than just settling for the 2nd backup spot.

I don't agree with experimenting more minutes with Delfino because I think he needs to learn to be effective in his current role and given his current minutes.

Reguarding who should get the more minutes - I say you play the hot hand. Both have games where they look very good and then both have games whenre they are useless.

better than getting "more" minutes, i'd like to see him get consistent minutes. 15 minutes a night sounds good, like he had tonight. he's averaging about 10 per game, but sometimes he gets 20 and sometimes he gets 3. of course, that's tough since Mo deserves minutes as well. although, i tend to think that Mo can adapt to more erratic minutes than Delfino can.

I think they both deserve 10-12 minutes a game.

either way b-diddy, thats very selective memory you have. it leaves out how well carlos played before his injury and was even getting minutes in lb's system. how he mostly fell out of personal favor because of disputes over his injury, not his game. how he wasnt anywhere near as in shape and healthy as he was now when he got the wrath of lb and deactivated for the playoffs. considering all that i think the idea that he needs 25 minutes to be good is absolute bullshit. he just needs time. he gets better every game despite his minutes on the court and has improved his defense very well. though before his injury it wasnt that bad IMO.

i dont know if the impatience is ignorance to how much more he has find his way into the chemistry of this team than dice, arroyo, and the starting five. or if people are actually judging him as if he hasnt and wont get better. regardless of what the deal is. i think people are waaayy to quick in their judgement of what delfino is capable of and how good he WILL be barring injury.

with that said i think him and evans have both been earning minutes and getting better. evans has been up and down but he seems to have found his stride. but delfino is better than evans and will eventually see slightly more time if his game keeps improving as it has.. but they will both be on the court nonetheless and will make this team very tough to deal with if they can bring a consistent spark off the bench.

this boston game was the first game where our bench picked us up while we were down. and maybe the 1st bulls game too. if we can get that more often we'll hit another nice stride in the second half of the season.

Delfino was certainly hustling yesterday. I'd like to see them both get 10-12 minutes (as mentioned above). Get Prince some rest here and there when we aren't facing the Pierce, Tmac's and Kobe's of the world. Not every team has a dominant wing player, and hopefully Evans and Delfino can get some more run in those games.

I like both of them personally, they are 2 different players who when they come in and perfrom well bring 2 very different aspects of the game to the table. I like their combination.

2 very good backup SGs.

The have both been playing well as of late.

Mo's jumper is fugly, but it goes in (sometimes).

Delfino seems to getting it, finally.

I like both of them personally, they are 2 different players who when they come in and perfrom well bring 2 very different aspects of the game to the table. I like their combination.EXACTLY.


Mo's more of a power player. He can play the 2 and 3 but when a shot goes
up, he acts like a 4 or 5, never afraid to mix it up. He's a MONSTER down
low. Mo's more of a spot up shooter and a great finisher than a slasher.

Delfino is smooth as hell and a great slasher. Rather than going right at a
guy and trying to power his way through, Delf will get around him, stop and
pop or try to raise up over a dude. He can play the 2 and 3 as well
depending on the matchup.

They're starting to gel. That was fun to watch and I'm sure there's more to come!

I'd like to see Delfino get worked in at PG some too. If he could show consistancy there, than we wouldn't have to use Arroyo. We could use Hunter on the small quick PG's (TJ Ford) and Delfino on the bigger PG's.

it's a shame we left Delfino off the playoff roster last season and absolutly useless guys like Darko and Darvin actually made it :evil:

it's a shame we left Delfino off the playoff roster last season and absolutly useless guys like Darko and Darvin actually made it :evil:delfino was obviously not 100 percent and he hadnt been in the offense for a couple months. he seemed lost on the court at times and scared to go full steam. it was probally better he got left off. it seems to have inpired him to work harder at getting back to his original form from last before he got injured.

Delfino was certainly hustling yesterday. I'd like to see them both get 10-12 minutes (as mentioned above). Get Prince some rest here and there when we aren't facing the Pierce, Tmac's and Kobe's of the world. Not every team has a dominant wing player, and hopefully Evans and Delfino can get some more run in those games.

I'd like to see those consistent minutes even when they're playing the Paul Pierces of the world. Last night, Delfino held his own and gave up no more than Tayshaun did albeit in a limited time.

I agree he held his own on PP. If I saw that on a nightly basis then I agree %100. Hopefully Flip is telling him the same thing and hopefully Carlos will show the same defense next time.

Anyone who is saying that Delfino is not a good defender is simply going by reputation. Last year he was awful. That is no secret, but that was last year. He is definately one of our best perimiter defenders this year. And I'm not just talking about the Paul Pierce game. Wade, Ginobili, Lebron, Pierce, etc. He has faced them all (Flip must have SOME confidence in him), and he has done better on those guys than Tayshaun did. Against Darius Miles and Pierce it was VERY evident. And that is while getting absolutely hosed by the refs. Once he builds a rep in this league, he is going to be not only a solid defender, but a great defender. He moves his feet better than anyone not named Hunter, and he makes his opponent uncomfortable.

Also, if anyone noticed, Tayshaun had fresh legs in the 4th quarter for the first time in 3 years. What did he do? Score 9 points on 4 of 5 shooting. Wouldn't it be nice to make this an everyday thing?

Anyone who is saying that Delfino is not a good defender is simply going by reputation. Last year he was awful. That is no secret, but that was last year. He is definately one of our best perimiter defenders this year. And I'm not just talking about the Paul Pierce game. Wade, Ginobili, Darius Miles, Lebron, Pierce, etc. He has faced them all (Flip must have SOME confidence in him), and he has done better on those guys than Tayshaun did. And that is while getting absolutely hosed by the refs. Once he builds a rep in this league, he is going to be not only a solid defender, but a great defender. He moves his feet better than anyone not named Hunter, and he makes his opponent uncomfortable.

Also, if anyone noticed, Tayshaun had fresh legs in the 4th quarter for the first time in 3 years. What did he do? Score 9 points on 4 of 5 shooting. Wouldn't it be nice to make this an everyday thing?

I wouldn't go as far as saying he was our best defender but he is a completely different player from last season. I wonder how much of an affect his knees had last season?

BTW Welcome :wink:

Anyone who is saying that Delfino is not a good defender is simply going by reputation. Last year he was awful. That is no secret, but that was last year. He is definately one of our best perimiter defenders this year. And I'm not just talking about the Paul Pierce game. Wade, Ginobili, Lebron, Pierce, etc. He has faced them all (Flip must have SOME confidence in him), and he has done better on those guys than Tayshaun did. Against Darius Miles and Pierce it was VERY evident. And that is while getting absolutely hosed by the refs. Once he builds a rep in this league, he is going to be not only a solid defender, but a great defender. He moves his feet better than anyone not named Hunter, and he makes his opponent uncomfortable.

Also, if anyone noticed, Tayshaun had fresh legs in the 4th quarter for the first time in 3 years. What did he do? Score 9 points on 4 of 5 shooting. Wouldn't it be nice to make this an everyday thing?

Great first post.

I think Delf has all the tools to be a great defender. He's got great acceleration, quick lateral movement, great footwork, and he's agressive. I love his game and I really think, with his shown commitment to hard work and improving, that he will be one of the main keys to this teams' success. Once he gets a little respect from the refs maybe we'll see what he can really do, because in that stretch of time he played he gaurded Pierce better (if you negate all the bullshit calls he got screwed by) than I have ever seen Tayshaun do.

Great to have you here FP, send me a private message if you need any help around here.

Great first post.

I think Delf has all the tools to be a great defender. He's got great acceleration, quick lateral movement, great footwork, and he's agressive. I love his game and I really think, with his shown commitment to hard work and improving, that he will be one of the main keys to this teams' success. Once he gets a little respect from the refs maybe we'll see what he can really do, because in that stretch of time he played he gaurded Pierce better (if you negate all the bullshit calls he got screwed by) than I have ever seen Tayshaun do.

Great to have you here FP, send me a private message if you need any help around here.

Thanks. I've been around. I was here before the boards went down a while ago, but I saw this thread and felt the need to post. I agree with everything you said about him having the right physical tools.

Also wanted to note that it made me a bit sick to my stomach to see Delfino play Paul so tough, then have Tayshaun go on him and have Paul absolutely school him for easy hoops. That up-and-under move in particular just obliterated Tayshaun from the play all together. Tayshaun is great against players who will settle for jumpers easily (T-Mac, Kobe, Peja, etc), but I'm honestly more comfortable with Delfino on the slashers or post up guys at this point.

Ohhh, and I just remembered. Rashard Lewis. He was absolutely mugging Tayshaun (something like 7 of 8 from the field in the 3rd Q alone). Flip then threw Delfino on him, and he forced him into about 3 tough jumpers in a row. Another good defensive performance from Carlos.

Thanks. I've been around. I was here before the boards went down a while ago, but I saw this thread and felt the need to post. I agree with everything you said about him having the right physical tools.

Also wanted to note that it made me a bit sick to my stomach to see Delfino play Paul so tough, then have Tayshaun go on him and have Paul absolutely school him for easy hoops. That up-and-under move in particular just obliterated Tayshaun from the play all together. Tayshaun is great against players who will settle for jumpers easily (T-Mac, Kobe, Peja, etc), but I'm honestly more comfortable with Delfino on the slashers or post up guys at this point.

Ohhh, and I just remembered. Rashard Lewis. He was absolutely mugging Tayshaun (something like 7 of 8 from the field in the 3rd Q alone). Flip then threw Delfino on him, and he forced him into about 3 tough jumpers in a row. Another good defensive performance from Carlos.

I've noticed that too. He can defend jump shooters because of his length and he is great about not biting on pump fakes. When somebody slashes on him he has a hard time, especially because stronger SF's can bully his skinny ass around. Delf can defend slashers because he is one. Delf's real problem is that he's not tall/long enough to effectively guard some SF's in the league. He's much more well suited at SG on both ends of the floor IMO.

if both of them play the way theyv been playin i could care less whos better.

if both of them play the way theyv been playin i could care less whos better.

agreed. ithink it'd be a problem if they're games were too similar, making them redundant. they're really starting to gel now.

if both of them play the way theyv been playin i could care less whos better.

Amen to that. They've both been playing fantastic ball. Good to see them both get that three point stroke going.

Delfino had a couple of nice blocks against Atlanta. He's really working hard on defense I think. He might not have the size to guard the bigger SF's, but I feel comfortable with him on most swingmen.

Here's Delfino's draft capsule from nbadraftnet(I bolded certain points for emphasis) -

Delfino, son of a pro ball player and coach in Argentina, moved to Italy at age 18 after Manu Ginobili’s former coach in Reggio Calabria, Italy watched him dominate the U-21 Pan American Games as a 17 year old. Delfino, a strong 6-6 shooting guard, didn’t disappoint in his first season in Italy’s A1, scoring 25 points in only his second game while averaging 9 points per contest on the season. In his second season - at the age of 19 - he averaged 13.5 points with a high of 39. Last summer Delfino left Reggio Calabria and signed a generous 3-year deal with Skipper Fortitudo Bologna, a top 10 European club which competes in the Euroleague. Delfino had an up and down first season in the Euroleague but notably his best games came against powerhouse teams Barcelona and Benetton. The consensus is that he would benefit from playing another season or two in Europe (remember that Ginobili didn’t come to America until he was 25), but his upside is enough to make him a first round pick whenever he decides to declare.

Strengths: An excellent individual defender and great rebounder for a guard. He has good size for an NBA shooting guard a naturally well built physique that the NBA demands. Capable of shooting the 3 from NBA range. Handles the ball and sees the floor well. He is capable of playing minutes at point guard. A good but not spectacular athlete, he has a chance to earn playing time in the NBA because he relishes physical play and likes to play defense.

Weaknesses: He is a very streaky shooter and scouts have observed that he needs a quicker release on his jumper to get it off in the NBA. He plays very hard, but he must improve his concentration and be more consistent. He’s capable of going 6/6 or 0/6 from the 3 point line and sometimes becomes passive on offense. His stock in the 2003 draft was hurt when he badly sprained his left ankle in late March and scouts were unable to see him for nearly two months.

His coach at Fortitudo, Jasmin Repesa, who coached Gordan Giricek, Mehmet Okur and Dalibor Bagaric before they went to the NBA, says, “Carlos has a very good chance to be a good player for an NBA team. Nobody knows if he’ll be a star there, of course, but he has the talent, size and strength. I think that playing another season or two with Fortitudo in the Euroleague would give him a great chance to enter the NBA and make an immediate impact rather than always sitting on the bench like many young talents.” This summer Delfino will return to Argentina to play for the first time on the prestigious Argentine national team in the South American Championships and then the Pan American Games in Puerto Rico in order to qualify for the Olympics.

-Nate Jaffee

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Strengths: Has excellent size, scoring ability for the NBA shooting guard position. Defense is his biggest attribute. Very precocious feel for the game. One of the top international prospects in his age group.

Notes: Declared early for the 2001 NBA draft at the age of 19 before withdrawing his name from the draft. Has been among the top South American prospect of his age group for the past few years, with excellent showings in Under 20 International competitions. Plays professionally in Italy for Reggio Calabria, whom he is under contract with through 2002. In Italy, Delfino is often compared to Italian Emanuel Ginobili who is one of the top players in Europe today.

Carlos Delfino is a very good player. He can play both SF and SG, but prefers to play SG. Great athlete, great body, not overly quick. He drives very well, and he's a marksman, but he must improve his shot selection. He's erratic from three, and not a great free throw shooter (80%). (In the US this would be considered very good) Defensively he's good. Tremendous on-ball defender, very good off-ball defender. Average passer, very good rebounder. He plays for Viola, which isn't a very good team...so he has to be tested on a upper level. He never played in Euroleague, never played in Finals (at any level). He just plays every year to avoid the relegation.

I love both these players. If they can continue to play well and we feel confident enough to give them 15 minutes each a game and keep Tay, and Rip around 33-34 minutes max the second half of the year, this team will be downright unstoppable come playoff time.

btw, Delfino did a good job on Joe Johnson for the few plays he checked him. on one play, JJ backed him down and hit a nice little turn around J. the next time, JJ pulled a crossover and got by Delfino, but Delfino recovered and blocked the shot! that was good stuff.

thanks for posting the scouting reports, Kilo, i do remember reading about his defense. his offense is obviously there. he can run the break, spot up all the way out to the three point line, and he can slash, taking the ball strong for a dunk.

can't wait for Delfino to start getting recognition as a key contributer off the bench. it just opens up the game for Dice to quietly get his 9 and 6.

Delfino with another very good game tonight. 11 points, (3-4), 5 boards, 2 assists in 19 minutes.

That's three 11 point games in a row. His jumper is really looking good right now.

You know what the best thing about all of this, they are had at the bargain price of around 3 mil!


thatisifihavetheirsalariescorrect

I was compleatly wrong about Delfino last year. Dudes a baller.

Delfino with another very good game tonight. 11 points, (3-4), 5 boards, 2 assists in 19 minutes.

That's three 11 point games in a row. His jumper is really looking good right now.

Delfino's production allows Dice to have a poor shooting night and we don't suffer. awesome stuff.

Delfino's emergence could also help us against the Nets should we meet in the playoffs. Even given Rip's improvement defensively, both Rip and Tay will have problems with RJ and Carter because they are both very physical players. Delfino is pretty thick himself and could really help us in that series defensively if nothing else.

im so happy delfinos finally getting some love, i got no love when i would wear his jersey last year. Now at least hes gettin some recognition. Hopefully he hangs around for a while.

personally i wouldnt mind him and j max starting in the future....like 5 years say

personally i wouldnt mind him and j max starting in the future....like 5 years say

Hopefully that will be because they have risen, and not because our starters have fallen.

Jason Maxiell eats people.

personally i wouldnt mind him and j max starting in the future....like 5 years say

Hopefully that will be because they have risen, and not because our starters have fallen.

Itll prolly be a mix of the two. but i too hope for the first

Jason Maxiell eats people.

And then misses free throws with their skulls

Fuck it. He's still beasting on fools.

He could still hit 2 though right?

I was compleatly wrong about Delfino last year. Dudes a baller.

I, for one, take things as they come and don't feel the need to rewrite history.

Last year, he was a pussy about his injury, and even before his injury, was a terrible defender who never moved his feet and acted like he was standing in cement. He was always a step slow on defense before his injury, gambled on steals, and missed.

This year, he's played tough as nails, and has really really improved his defense, mostly by learning how to move his feet.

No matter how bad he defender or how much of a pussy he was last year, it doesn't take away from the great things he's doing this year.

And no matter how many times he fearlessly takes it to the rack and gets right up after the contact, and defends like crazy this year, it doesn't take away from how bad a defender or how much of a pussy he was last year.

I'm just glad to see the improvement, and hope it keeps coming - we're lucky to have this year's version of Carlos Delfino on our team, and he still has a lot of upside.

No matter how bad he defender or how much of a pussy he was last year, it doesn't take away from the great things he's doing this year.

i don't know. i'm inclined to give Delfino a pass last season because it was his first season in America and in the NBA. he only played 30 games last season before injury. yes, his path to recovery was marred by him going back home to treatment, but again, i don't buy the "he was a pussy last season" theory. i think LB's comments about Delfino's injury led people to make judgements on Delfino's toughness.

regardless, he's playing well now and he's playing tough. me likes.

No matter how bad he defender or how much of a pussy he was last year, it doesn't take away from the great things he's doing this year.

i don't know. i'm inclined to give Delfino a pass last season because it was his first season in America and in the NBA.

Matt, if you are trying to convince Taymelo to say he was wrong about something, you might be barking up the wrong tree.



I, for one, take things as they come and don't feel the need to rewrite history.


LMAO

[quote=Taymelo]No matter how bad he defender or how much of a pussy he was last year, it doesn't take away from the great things he's doing this year.

i don't know. i'm inclined to give Delfino a pass last season because it was his first season in America and in the NBA.

Matt, if you are trying to convince Taymelo to say he was wrong about something, you might be barking up the wrong tree.


I, for one, take things as they come and don't feel the need to rewrite history.

LMAO


I agree with Glenn.

Besides. He agreed with my conclusion.

I agree with Tay.

What happened last season happened.

What he's doing this season is fucking great, but it doesn't change the fact that last season he was a bitch.

Maybe that talk Joe had with him paid off?

I was compleatly wrong about Delfino last year. Dudes a baller.

I, for one, take things as they come and don't feel the need to rewrite history.

Last year, he was a pussy about his injury, and even before his injury, was a terrible defender who never moved his feet and acted like he was standing in cement. He was always a step slow on defense before his injury, gambled on steals, and missed.

This year, he's played tough as nails, and has really really improved his defense, mostly by learning how to move his feet.

No matter how bad he defender or how much of a pussy he was last year, it doesn't take away from the great things he's doing this year.

And no matter how many times he fearlessly takes it to the rack and gets right up after the contact, and defends like crazy this year, it doesn't take away from how bad a defender or how much of a pussy he was last year.

I'm just glad to see the improvement, and hope it keeps coming - we're lucky to have this year's version of Carlos Delfino on our team, and he still has a lot of upside.

I will adapt your way of thinking.

I don't think we know enough about the situation last year to call him a "Bitch" or a "pussy". How do we know what kind of pain Delfino was in? The guy was playing with Dice everyday, and it had to get into his head that his career could be going to shit. Add to that a coach with a history of being an A-hole calling him out in the press. So, I don't blame him.

Last year, before the injury, the guy was just as fearless driving to the rim (our only player willing to do that). Obviously multiple knee surgeries is going to make you more tentative. I'm just glad Dumars didn't do something stupid and trade him like most were calling for last season.

I don't think we know enough about the situation last year to call him a "Bitch" or a "pussy".

Too bad. I'm callin him one anyway.


How do we know what kind of pain Delfino was in?

A little bird told me.

[smilie=stern_sig.g:


The guy was playing with Dice everyday, and it had to get into his head that his career could be going to shit. Add to that a coach with a history of being an A-hole calling him out in the press. So, I don't blame him.

[smilie=jackson.gif]


Last year, before the injury, the guy was just as fearless driving to the rim (our only player willing to do that). Obviously multiple knee surgeries is going to make you more tentative.

[smilie=violin.gif]


I'm just glad Dumars didn't do something stupid and trade him like most were calling for last season.

[smilie=iagree.gif]

And just like my hate for smileys multiplies by 100

I don't think we know enough about the situation last year to call him a "Bitch" or a "pussy". How do we know what kind of pain Delfino was in? The guy was playing with Dice everyday, and it had to get into his head that his career could be going to shit. Add to that a coach with a history of being an A-hole calling him out in the press. So, I don't blame him.

Last year, before the injury, the guy was just as fearless driving to the rim (our only player willing to do that). Obviously multiple knee surgeries is going to make you more tentative. I'm just glad Dumars didn't do something stupid and trade him like most were calling for last season.
well unlike us Joe D. isnt rash. as far as Taynelo's claim that he wasnt good on defense. thats not true. he was inconsistent at times. but once again it was his first time playing NBA ball in one of the most demanding systems(LB's psychothon) in the league. he was improving in all phases of his game IMO, but the injury was a major setback. either way i just hope he keeps improving this year.


and for all of us to be fair. we are judging his attitude on his injury based on larry brown calling him soft. though i think Delfino was being a bitch then. but who can say for sure.