This is the thread to put all Darko trade ideas. I'll start us off with some ideas (some good, some not maybe):

Darko + Delfino for Battier

Darko for Matt Harpring

Darko + Arroyo for Patterson + Dixon (Pharoah)

Darko +Delfino for Patterson and a first rounder

Darko for Childress or Smith and Delk (filler)

Darko + Arroyo for Mo Pete + Mike James

Darko + Davis + Arroyo + DC + Acker for Jalen Rose

Darko + Arroyo for Brevin Knight + Gerald Wallace

For the last fucking time...FUCK MATT HARPRING!!!!!!

WHAT THE FUCK MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My thoughts in bold...




Darko + Delfino for Battier YES

Darko for Matt Harpring YES

Darko + Arroyo for Patterson + Dixon (Pharoah) NO, getting Patterson AND losing Arroyo is too much for me

Darko +Delfino for Patterson and a first rounder YES, if the 1st is unprotected

Darko for Childress or Smith and Delk (filler) YES, but not Smith

Darko + Arroyo for Mo Pete + Mike James YES, pit bulls reunite, but MoPete gives us another SG that tries to pass for a SF, so I'd then deal Delfino for a legit SF

Darko + Davis + Arroyo + DC + Acker for Jalen Rose NO, we need Davis if we trade Darko

Darko + Arroyo for Brevin Knight + Gerald Wallace NO, if we didn't have Chauncey, I'd be all for Brevin as a starter, but we need more offense from our bench right now, I'm not high on GWall, and that would be one too many Wallaces

Darko + Delfino for Battier
It's pretty good. I like Shane alot.


Darko for Matt Harpring
Fuck no. Harpring is trash. Always has been always will be.
He's also a little bitch and has almost ZERO game. He's like
a broke ass man's version of Szerbiak, except Wally's good.


Darko + Arroyo for Patterson + Dixon (Pharoah)
At first glance, this is nice. Dixon is a player. Patterson though?
He's not exactly on Sheed's Christmas list. NO THANKS.


Darko +Delfino for Patterson and a first rounder
No. Fuck no.


Darko for Childress or Smith and Delk (filler)
Smith and Delk. Fuck yes. Childress, maybe. We already have
the rich man's version. Smith can develop in to a star.


Darko + Arroyo for Mo Pete + Mike James
Decent trade, but I like Arroyo more than James and Mo's Kareem Rush.


Darko + Davis + Arroyo + DC + Acker for Jalen Rose
Fuck no. Too many players to trade for that but I'd do it.
It's Jalen for Arroyo and Darko, Davis and DC for Maxiell getting to play a bit.
I kinda like it.


Darko + Arroyo for Brevin Knight + Gerald WallaceNo thanks. Gerald is a freak, but he doesn't know how to play basketball.
Brevin Knight makes me think of a weird toothed dude in a black Cavs jersey.
Oh...that was him.

And what is with including DC's deal in trades?

We amnestied his deal didn't we?

Isn't he off the books?

Darko to Toronto for Eric Williams, Woods and an unprotected first. We then could waive either Acker or Woods.

Darko and Delfino to ATL for Stoudamire and Marvin Williams ( I mention this because on radio and in print John Hollinger has said ATL isn't happy with the pick now).

Darko Delfino and TE to LAL for Bynum ( new project) and George.

Darko to CHA for May and Rush

Darko to Houston for Deke, Barry and unprotected first.

Darko and Arroyo to Denver for Watson, Najera and a first

Darko to PHX for Jones, Jackson and a first

THIS JUST IN: MOLA1 loves Matt Harpring.

And what is with including DC's deal in trades?

We amnestied his deal didn't we?

Isn't he off the books?

I think maybe he was. His 2 mil was on hoopshype (shows you how current that is). There is no chance we can get Rose then because he makes too much.

Responces in bold:

Darko to Toronto for Eric Williams, Woods and an unprotected first. We then could waive either Acker or Woods.
Unprotected first, yes.

Darko and Delfino to ATL for Stoudamire and Marvin Williams ( I mention this because on radio and in print John Hollinger has said ATL isn't happy with the pick now).
Yes

Darko Delfino and TE to LAL for Bynum ( new project) and George.
no thanks. George is no better than Evans and we don't need another project big man.

Darko to CHA for May and Rush
doesn't help SF problem and no room for May

Darko to Houston for Deke, Barry and unprotected first.
doesn't help SF problem and pick won't be good. Imagine Yao and Darko starting? No rebounding, but very tall.

Darko and Arroyo to Denver for Watson, Najera and a first
sure

Darko to PHX for Jones, Jackson and a first
Sure

Atlanta sounds like a good place for Darko.

Atlanta needs a big man, plus they are a SG/SF goldmine(they have like six of them).

Childress and Smith, please.

Just one simple question: Why the hell would Atlanta give up Smith for Darko? (And this is for everyone that included him in a trade) Are they not happy with Smith? I thought they were counting on him to be "The Man" in a few years.



Darko + Delfino for Battier Definitely

Darko for Matt Harpring No, but MOLA just hates him because he's white and ugly

Darko + Arroyo for Patterson + Dixon (Pharoah) I don't get why we would even consider Patterson

Darko +Delfino for Patterson and a first rounder See above

Darko for Childress or Smith and Delk (filler) In a heartbeat

Darko + Arroyo for Mo Pete + Mike James This would be an amazing trade

Darko + Davis + Arroyo + DC + Acker for Jalen Rose No

Darko + Arroyo for Brevin Knight + Gerald Wallace Wouldn't happen

For the last fucking time...FUCK MATT HARPRING!!!!!!

WHAT THE FUCK MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Career 47.8% FG, 76% FT

averaged double digit points and 6 boards last 6 years

consistently averages more points per game than FG attempts

give him 8 shots and he'll get you 9 points

another outside threat to spread the floor for our bigs

I don't have a problem giving him 18 mins/gm

At this point right now Delfino or Evans > Harpring.

We have an amazing starting 5. We have a solid bench.

Let's talk about somebody other than Matt Harpring guys.
Seriously.

I would love to have Harpring. MOLA obviously is dead wrong on Harpring. HE IS WHITE AND WE NEED ANOTHER ONE. Arroyo dont count..;)


Ar

ps I know we have Delfino, but he is part ghetto since he is from SA.

Darko and Acker (1st/2nd too?) for Childress/Smith and Stoudamire?

I want Stoudamire on the bench here, he has crazy range and is clutch.

Darko + Delfino + Arroyo + 1st for James + Mo Pete + rights to Roko Ukic + rights to Pape Sow/1st

I thought we'd discuss which teams would need Darko. Then discuss which players they could be willing to part with. And finally we'd have a deal that works for both teams.

I guess that's not as much fun as running to the checker and going full-tilt though?

Atlanta:

Their bigs suck. They have a ton of wings.

Would be likely to part with Childress or Smith and can include Delk as filler.

Charlotte:

Need all the talent they can get.

Don't really need Jumaine Jones.

Lakers:

Need talent.

Have plenty of expiring deals to package including Devean George, Slava Medvedenko and have a young Euro prospect they could deal as well (Vujaric)

Phoenix:

Could use a big man.

Have a bunch of wings to deal, including Raja Bell, James Jones and Jim Jackson

Portland:

Need big men

Have a bunch of wings to deal, including Patterson, 2 Russians and Travis Outlaw

Sacramento:

WTF is going on here?

Could part with Corliss, Garcia (or Martin) and Jason Hart in a deal.

Toronto:

Need talent

Could part with Peterson, James, Ukic, Sow, Eric Williams, Aaron Williams, Loren Woods and has Denver's pick in 2006 (plus their own first rounder)

Based on this list of teams Toronto seems like the most likely destination for Darko.

The question is who we get in return?

I'd start with Ukic for down the road.

Mike James doesn't solve the defensive SF problem so even though he's the popular choice it doesn't help us.

It has to be Eric Williams or Mo Peterson. Your choice (I doubt Babcock cares either way)

Then you've got filler to include.

If I see another trade involving Mike James, I'll slay everyone on this board.

Well, you do that.

I don't want him simply because he doesn't solve our back-up SF issue and merely adds to the logjam at guard.

Assume we traded Darko and Arroyo for Peterson, James and Ukic

Ukic won't be here until next season at the earliest.

In the meantime we have James, Hunter and Billups at PG and Rip, Evans, Delfino and Peterson logging minutes at SG.

That means Delfino sits every game IMO. Not good.

So, I'd rather do Darko for Peterson and Ukic if it's possible.

If we take Eric Williams and Ukic I'd want the Denver pick as well.

I don't think we need to deal Arroyo and bring in a different PG. That's not productive.

Peterson + Ukic works under the CBA.

Now is that what we want for Darko?

Those that think Darko is still a valuable trade chip will want more and those that think it's fair will disagree.

I think what we can agree on is that Peterson would be able to play decent D on the wing and brings some scoring to our bench.

Ukic is a nice prospect to have and as a second round pick we're not handcuffed by the rookie scale when we want to bring him over.

3 deals with Toronto (that don't involve James:

Darko for Joey Graham, Aaron Williams and the rights to Roko-Leni Ukic

We'd waive Aaron's expiring deal to keep the roster at 15. Raptors could get him back if they waited or he could sign with a decent team.

Is Graham the SF we could use?

Darko + Alex Acker for Joey Graham and Eric Williams

Eric Williams has made it obvious he wants out of Toronto. He gets his wish. Graham and Williams can certainly help at SF off the bench.

Darko for Morris Peterson - if Mo can play decent D at SF off the bench and score some points we'll be fine.

You have to wonder if Camby going down makes them a good candidate for us.

We could send Darko/Arroyo to Denver for Watson/Najera.

I kind of like that deal, even though I'm an Arroyo supporter.

Truth be told, Denver will probably look for a big that is ready to step in and contribute immediately in a Watson deal, so mabye this won't be a good fit.

Only problem with Watson is the money. We'd be good with two MLE PG's here, but when Billups needs an extension that might be a little tight. I suppose we could always move Watson then (wouldn't have many years left on his contract) if it is a concern.

I like the deal though.

Only problem with Watson is the money. We'd be good with two MLE PG's here, but when Billups needs an extension that might be a little tight. I suppose we could always move Watson then (wouldn't have many years left on his contract) if it is a concern.

I like the deal though.

You lost me. Two? Who would be the second?

Billups. He was a MLE player. He makes 6 mil this year and 6.3 next year. Watson makes 5+ mil the next 4 years after this one. If you trade for him, plus give Billups an extension (let's say RIP's money for the sake of arguement), you will have 16 mil into the PG spot in 2007. At the same time we'll have 13 mil at SG (including Delfino and Evans), 13 mil at PF (plus another 6 mil if Dyess takes his Player option), Tay's extension (10 mil?), Ben's extension (12-13 mil?) in there too.

That's over 65 million, or 71 mil with Dyess. And that's without replacing Najera, DD, Hunter, or counting Acker or Amir if they make the team.

I like the deal, I'm just saying that we'd likely have to deal Watson in a couple years when Billups needs an extension.

Oops sorry. It's been so long since I have considered Billups as an MLE player.

I thought that maybe you missed the part about Arroyo going to Denver.

My bad.

no biggie. As I said, I think that is a great deal, and would make us title favorites the next 3 years. But, Joe would definately have to move Watson later because we can't have that much in PG money. Or Davidson would have to completely trust Joe and tell him to pay taxes as long as they are winning titles. They could do that for another 5 years really and then rebuild very fast (with Tay, Maxiell, Delfino, Evans, RIP, and Billups would be a solid vet still).

So, my Joey Graham trades are shit?

6 posts later and not even a mention?

Oh, I understand - sucker me into the Darko debate and then leave me hanging.

Fuck all y'all.

haha. I like it. I'm not sure what kind of defense he plays, but I liked him coming into the draft. He's worth getting rid of Darko (who won't sign here) IMO.

Should I try and find the Draft Express profile of him?

I should:

http://www.draftexpress.com/viewprofile.php?p=88

Make of that what you will

Embarrassingly enough, I don't know anything about Joey Graham.

Sorry, I can't comment on him.

Read his profile GD.

Seems like a nice prospect to get for Darko (if we could get him obviously)

Imagine getting him and Ukic for Darko?

Damn! That would be a nice long thread for all of us to boast in.

How about this one (may need some tweaking)

Detroit
Darko to Denver
Arroyo to Atlanta
Delfino to Atlanta
pick to Denver

Atlanta
Childress or Smith to Detroit
Williams to Denver

Denver
Watson to Detroit
Nene to Atlanta
pick (washington's) to Detroit

Detroit gets a defensive PG that can pass and shoot well, and also a young SF to back up Tay. They also get Washington's pick (top 13 protected this year, top 3 the next year) to eventually get a new big man.

Atlanta gets a true big man and PG and unloads two wing players. They get Delfino back for wing depth to play behind Johnson and Smith or Childress.

Denver gets Darko who would backup Camby and Martin nicely. They also get Williams to play the wing with Melo and unload Watson's contract. They get Detroit's pick which they can send to Toronto (Martin/VC moves) to pay off a debt.

Thoughts?[/b]

Love it, get Joe on the phone.

The only flaw I see is that nagging feeling that Denver wants an experienced big, not a project.

If they were a lotto team, then hell yes. But they are on the cusp of being a contender, not really the best position to take a shot in the dark, so to speak.

But Kiki does have wet dreams about Darko, so you never know...

i thought about that, but they would do it to get the 2nd wing player they desperately need. They swap one big project for another (nene for Darko), and how can you go wrong with Melo AND darko? lol

you could always send Darko straight to Atlanta and not move Nene. It still works really (though filler might be needed).

and how can you go wrong with Melo AND darko? lol


I can hear their fans now, "shouldda taken Bosh".

Cool sig, btw.

thanks. I thought with everyone else saying they are HD, why not us?

I just met Darko the other day. He was in my store for a couple of hours the other day with his "posse". The Pistons need to trade him and get whatever they can for him. He comes across as an idiot. He spent 5k and didn't even know his new address. One of his posse members was the only guy who spoke english well enough to actully get info. We ended up calling te Pistons front to get his info. The woman who answered the phone was laughing her ass off when she pulled out his infomation card. It said "darko" and had his cell phone number. No address. No contact person. Not even his last name. After several attempts we finally got his adress but he definitely doesn't come across as a winner.

LMAO. Thanks for the story, mick.

Hope to read more from you here.

Micknugget is a racist because he (like Flip and LB) never learned to speak Serbian. Darko is only 17 years old! You should be fired from your job.

A glimmer of hope...


Don (Greenville, NC): Hey Chris. I know the Pistons are playing great right now, and I expect them to continue. Family members and I were discussing whether or not we thought Joe might try to add another player. We don't really see a need for anything except possibly a pure shooter. Your thoughts?

Chris Sheridan: (12:28 PM ET ) I asked Joe that very question a couple days ago when I had him on the phone to discuss the Pistons' report card (note second shameless plug for my latest project). He said he'd like to add another piece to the bench, which is curious because he's about to get Lindsey Hunter back and he hasn't even dusted off Dale Davis yet. Another shooter is never a bad idea, but will he be able to hit the type of big shots like the one Sheed drained from 26 feet last night to bury the Heat?

Francis (IL): Are the Pistons going to stick with Darko?

Chris Sheridan: (12:37 PM ET ) I have to think they're going to give up on him in the not-too-distant future. Let's face it, the pistons are going to be contending for championships for the next three yars, at least (provided they re-sign Ben Wallace). When exactly is Darko going to get any playing time? At some point they'll be presented with an offer for Darko that makes a lot of sense.


Eric (Indy): Chris what's worse: Takind Sam Bowie over MJ or DMilicic over DWade?

Chris Sheridan: (12:40 PM ET ) The Bowie pick will never be matched. Ever. The thing about the Darko pick was the caliber of players that went immediately after him _ Carmelo Anthony, then Chris Bosh, then Dwyane Wade, then Chris Kaman, then Kirk Hinrich, then T.J. Ford. That was a heck of a draft.


Jamison (Atlanta): Now that it look like a fluke run by the Hawks. Will they finally trade Al? I am getting tired of seeing Marvin sit on the bench doing nothing while every other rookie is showing growth and promise.

Chris Sheridan: (12:45 PM ET ) Billy Knight wants to see Marvin on the floor, too, which is why he's listening to trade offers for Al Harrington. The Hawks want a No. 1 pick and a good player back, and they're low on No. 1s after giving two of 'em to the Suns in the Joe Johnson-Boris Diaw trade. One of those picks is the Hawks' own, and it's unprotected after two years.

Why not Darko and a 1st for Marquis Daniels?

Its going to be tough to get a good player from any other contender. It will have to be a Joe D special.

If we are going to get a player that we can use this season, it has to be either a True 7 foot Center. No one is going to steal the reigns from Hunter and Arroyo.

I personally would love for us to use Darko to prepare for the future. I would love a first rounder in the late lotto, or a great high school prospect like Atlanta's Josh Smith.

I would also consider Darko for Greg Ostertag and Utah's top 3 protected first rounder. Tag is trash and will never play for us, but we'll at least have 6 fouls if we need them. More importantly, we would gain the cap space we need this summer. The pick would be great for anytime in the next 2 years.

Why Darko never will be more than a solid part-time center at best...

http://www.hoopsanalyst.com/0506ew5.htm

if we trade Darko i want a really solid guy like Battier or Watson back or some young guy how could turn out to be a starter someday...a guy like Pietrus, Biendris, Telfair...

I would love to have a sharpshooter.

Sac Town:
Fransisco Garcia <-------------------
Corliss
Jason Hart

Detroit:
Darko
Delfino
Arroyo

Ok so Sacramento lacks depth. Bibby needs a reliable back up and Hart isnt the answer. Arroyo can take off minutes from Bibby and give him a breather. I think Delfino is an upgrade over Garcia for the Kings but it is better for us because he get the sharpshooter in Garcia. He is also very young and could learn something from Richard Hamilton. I dont like Corliss but his contract is expiring.

For anyone who cares Chris Sheridan is the guy you need to pay attention to if you are seeking the truth about trade talk or the inner workings of an orgainization. He talks to a lot of people all the time, he is on the ball and nt a lazy person who waits for the phone to ring.

He may not be correct 100% but he is not Peter Vescey. He just writes and says what he hears. For example I know with out a doubt that there was talk about KG to NY or Detroit , but because the deal didn't happen he was blasted.

With that said FUCK what the the local beat off writers or Matt Dery say about the Darko situation . Those guys are fat cats who don't work for stories, they like keeping status quo, and Krista isn't about to make waves in her first year. Darko is being shopped or is at least on the block. In the summer if you were to ask Joe on a scale 1 to 10 what are the chances of dealing Darko? He would have said 1 to 3 and only if he was blown away by the deal. Now if the question is asked the answer is more 7- or 8, but he isn't giving Darko away. I would take the under on Darko being moved before the offseason.

THANK YOU

Glenn posted it and this is the shit many of us have been saying for the last 12 months:


Francis (IL): Are the Pistons going to stick with Darko?

Chris Sheridan: (12:37 PM ET ) I have to think they're going to give up on him in the not-too-distant future. Let's face it, the pistons are going to be contending for championships for the next three yars, at least (provided they re-sign Ben Wallace). When exactly is Darko going to get any playing time? At some point they'll be presented with an offer for Darko that makes a lot of sense.

I'd love to get a deal similar to what the Wiz got for Kwame Brown. If we could snag someone at the level of Caron Butler and bring him of our bench we'd be a lock to win the title.

^just so you know, Joey Graham's NBDdraft profile compares him to Butler. I know we mentioned a Darko for Graham/Williams deal.

I want Childress and Stoudamire.

One completish player with a fro, and an insane shooter.

how about Darko, Arroyo, Delfino for Delonte West and Ricky Davis


Ricky Davis kinda growed up...no more immature stuff, he can play all 3 positions 1-3...he can heat up quick and score a lot, he's leading the Celtics in assists at 5.3 per game...he still cant defend but we still would have Evans for the high scoring 2,3's out there...Delonte West can do it all, give him 2,3 years and he could be able to take over the starting PG spot if CB slows down...
both are locked up for the next 2 years for a decent price...lets hope Boston loses some more games and Ainge decides to blow the team up...that could be our chance ;)

NO WAY we want Ricky Davis on this team plus i think the pistons would want a 1st to go along with that deal.

Gotta say that I would be extremely happy with Joey Graham. It certainly looks like they are focusing more on Villanueva in their rotation, and with Darko, they would have a nice project. My favorite deal would be Darko and Acker for Mike James and Graham. That way we could deal one of James or Arroyo to Memphis for a sweet deal, given that they are desperate for a PG. I doubt that Toronto would move their starting PG though.

I definitely think Toronto would be interested in Darko, given that he will be a restricted free agent, and they have had trouble keeping guys around. If Darko ever does pan out to be even average, Darko, Bosh, and Villanueva would be a huge frontcourt.

^I don't think there'd be a James deal without Arroyo involved.

Arroyo > James

No thanks on James.

I still think we should go after a versatile guard such as Boris Diaw or Marquis Daniels, but preferably Daniels. 8)

Just bumping this out of boredom.

Detroit Trade Breakdown

Outgoing
Darko Milicic
7-0 C from Serbia-Montenegro (Foreign)
1.4 ppg, 1.2 rpg, 0.2 apg in 6.2 minutes

Incoming
Marvin Williams
6-9 SF from North Carolina
6.0 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 0.7 apg in 21.9 minutes
Change in team outlook: +4.6 ppg, +3.0 rpg, and +0.5 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

----------------

Detroit Trade Breakdown

Outgoing
Darko Milicic
7-0 C from Serbia-Montenegro (Foreign)
1.4 ppg, 1.2 rpg, 0.2 apg in 6.2 minutes

Incoming
Otis Thorpe
6-9 PF from Providence
Retired since 2001
Change in team outlook: hard to quantify

TRADE ACCEPTED

Glenn with the history lesson.

ASB on 1270 right now:

--Dumars is actively listening to Darko offers.
--Organization disenchanted with his tude when getting into games.
--hasn't developed like they thought.



-My Friday just got better.

ASB on 1270 right now:

--Dumars is actively listening to Darko offers.
--Organization disenchanted with his tude when getting into games.
--hasn't developed like they thought.



-My Friday just got better.

Apologies to MUHME in advance...

but that's the only good thing I've ever "heard" (read) coming from AM1270.

ASB on 1270 right now:

--Dumars is actively listening to Darko offers.
--Organization disenchanted with his tude when getting into games.
--hasn't developed like they thought.



-My Friday just got better.

DO IT TOMORROW JOE!!!!!

IT'S MY BIRTHDAY!!!!!


:occasion4: :occasion6: :occasion7: :occasion9: :violent2:

ASB on 1270 right now:

--Dumars is actively listening to Darko offers.
--Organization disenchanted with his tude when getting into games.
--hasn't developed like they thought.



-My Friday just got better.

Apologies to MUHME in advance...

but that's the only good thing I've ever "heard" (read) coming from AM1270.

Doug Karsch did ask if he thought Dumars could land a Sheed type deal for Darko. :laughing8:

ASB on 1270 right now:

--Dumars is actively listening to Darko offers.
--Organization disenchanted with his tude when getting into games.
--hasn't developed like they thought.



-My Friday just got better.

Apologies to MUHME in advance...

but that's the only good thing I've ever "heard" (read) coming from AM1270.

Doug Karsch did ask if he thought Dumars could land a Sheed type deal for Darko. :laughing8:

Yeah... his name is Ron Artest.

KIDDING. :D

This stuff coming out could hurt our return though. I'd kill for the Marvin Williams deal. With Atlanta seemingly not willing to move Harrington, maybe they'll consider keeping him long term and moving Williams. Milicic and Zaza would be a solid start in the middle, and Al Harrington and Marvin Williams offer pretty much the same package - both 3-4's...

I think there will be many teams interested in Milicic. He's a 20 yr old 7'1" 260lb lefty with all the talent in the world - just with a shitty attitude and questionable work ethic. I think the latter two points will be correctable with playing time. If he was trying hard and still shitty, then we might have problems. However when he has given any semblence of an effort - The Euroball tournement and in the pre-season games, he has shown definite promise.

even though I posted it, I think the Marvin Williams deal is a pipe dream.

No way Joe D gets back this year's #2 pick for our bust #2 pick.

Now if we upped the ante and tried Darko-Arroyo and maybe a pick for Williams-Delk, then maybe.

Haven't checked to see if the salaries work on that deal, yet.

IMO, Atlanta will want a pick(s), they need to replace the ones that went to PHX for Johnson.

But getting Williams in a Darko deal allows Joe D to save a little face (i.e. a #2 for a #2)

FYI- the $ works on that last deal I mentioned, plus Delk's deal is expiring so we would get his deal off the books and rid ourselves of the remaining years on Arroyo's deal in the process.

Got two trades:

- Detroit trades Darko + 2nd round pick to Chicago for NY's first round pick (preferably the one in 2008).

Chicago lacks size so bad that they are starting 6-8 Sweetney at Center. They are one game out of the 8th playoff spot, so they could still make the playoffs if they want to.

- Detroit trades Darko and Carlos Arroyo to Phoenix for Leandro Barbosa and Atlanta's first round pick.

Arroyo would be a good fit in Phoenix behind Nash. And if Nash and D'Antoni can't do anything with Darko, then nobody can. We get a PG that can defend and score. The only problem is that he is a more of a scoring guard than a passing guard.

A trade over on the Mlive forum by Brimiza who is pretty astute at trade ideas came up with a Darko for Tony Battie and Fran Vazquez.

or Darko & Arroyo to Magic for Nelson, Cato & rights to Vazquez.

Don't know much about Vazquez but he could be shelved in Euroland.

Williams isn't exactly tearing down the house in Atlanta, and with Harrington, Childress, Johnson and Smith they need size more than wing players. I think their willingness to move Williams will depend on their decision on Harrinton and their willingness to spend to keep him. They'll have another top pick this year(the pick owing PHX is lottery protected) meaning they could land a top PF or point guard prospect.

McCoskey is on WDFN right now, has he said anything about this yet?

Got two trades:

- Detroit trades Darko + 2nd round pick to Chicago for NY's first round pick (preferably the one in 2008).

Chicago lacks size so bad that they are starting 6-8 Sweetney at Center. They are one game out of the 8th playoff spot, so they could still make the playoffs if they want to.

- Detroit trades Darko and Carlos Arroyo to Phoenix for Leandro Barbosa and Atlanta's first round pick.

Arroyo would be a good fit in Phoenix behind Nash. And if Nash and D'Antoni can't do anything with Darko, then nobody can. We get a PG that can defend and score. The only problem is that he is a more of a scoring guard than a passing guard.

without looking at their cap situation, I don't think either of those would work. I think all teams involved are at/over/near the cap so salaries would have to be close.

PHX has a 3 mil TE that might help that deal, but I still don't see either of those tempting Joe, especially if he wants a backup for Tay as much as some of us do.

I don't think Joe would go out of his way to help the Bulls make the playoffs, especially if we are going to be competeing with them hot and heavy over the next 5 years.

Gotta say that would be extremely unlikely that Atlanta would trade Williams so early after taking him. Granted they have too many swinmen, but they knew that when they took him. Likely they would rather move Harrington than pay him a lot to stay. He is obviously going to be looking for at least his current salary this offseason.

Jameer Nelson would be a sensational add, since he knows how to run an offense, can create his own shot or dish, and has blazing speed. Battie I don't really care about, but would fill our need for a true C I guess.

Surprised no one has mentioned this one. Darko for Vlad Radmanovic and a 2006 lotto protected first. I don't think we could really get a better backup SF than him. Would actually be in the rotation which is nice too.

The question I would ask would be would they have taken Bogut over Williams?? Other than Williams, they had point guards to choose from and Joe Johnson was supposed to be their pointguard. Villanueva wasn't supposed to be as good as he is and the other bigs were projects.

I'd rather keep Milicic that trade his for some back-up player with a limited cieling. Is Jameer that much better than Carlos Arroyo?? Radman is an unrestricted free-agent.

I just know Milicic is going to explode once we deal him, and it will be mighty hard to swallow(even if I accept that he would have never did that here), if all we have to show is a Jameer Nelson or a medicore first round draft pick.

The question I would ask would be would they have taken Bogut over Williams?? Other than Williams, they had point guards to choose from and Joe Johnson was supposed to be their pointguard. Villanueva wasn't supposed to be as good as he is and the other bigs were projects.

I'd rather keep Milicic that trade his for some back-up player with a limited cieling. Is Jameer that much better than Carlos Arroyo?? Radman is an unrestricted free-agent.

I just know Milicic is going to explode once we deal him, and it will be mighty hard to swallow(even if I accept that he would have never did that here), if all we have to show is a Jameer Nelson or a medicore first round draft pick.

:laughing1: :laughing5: :laughing6: :laughing7: :laughing8: :laughing9: :sign5:

I like Jameer, but I have another thought in mind:

To Atlanta (with either Arroyo or Acker) for one of Williams/Childress/Smith and Stoudamire.

Get a good back up SG/SF, and a sniper if there ever was one.

Move Fino/Evans(whoever gets 3rd in the position battle for a first, if we feel the need.

Over/under Darko is moved in three weeks...I will take the under.

Joe doesn't let stuff like this go public without cause.

RE: Derrick Coleman

You can't trade a player you've waived, whether he was amnestied or not.

WTF?

I'll take the under as well.

No way we keep Darko for long now that Joe has gone public.

Has he ever done it before?

I remember before he dealt Stackhouse he denied trade rumours and then BOOM! Stack was dealt.

Joe is actually making it public that Darko can be had for the right price.

The question is:

What's the right price?

A first round pick and a expiring contract?

A pick and a decent player?

A pick and a young prospect?

What?

I'll take the "over" - I think Darko will be here in February, and in related news, the Pistons will still be the best team in the league -- why make a deal when you don't NEED anything

RE: Derrick Coleman

You can't trade a player you've waived, whether he was amnestied or not.

WTF?

I believe the "DC" is meaning Draft Choice...

I'll take the "over" - I think Darko will be here in February, and in related news, the Pistons will still be the best team in the league -- why make a deal when you don't NEED anything

Its not that you need something. I think of it as, getting rid of something useless in return for something that could be of use.

Just to clarify, Joe himslef never went public that he's listening to Darko offers. Sherrod Blakely appears to have approached Dumars and is putting 2 and 2 together. It's close to being the same thing but it's not, though it's all I need to get my hopes up.

I assume Sherrod asked Dumars a question in a way that would still allow Dumars to deny it if asked publicly about trading Darko.

Dumars has consistently stated in public he has never discussed trading Darko with anyone. Now it will be interesting to hear his response the next time someone asks him publicly.

Pull the fucking trigger Joe.

Over/under Darko is moved in three weeks...I will take the under.

Joe doesn't let stuff like this go public without cause.

I'll take the over. I don't think Darko gets traded this season. The team's too good, and there's no need to mess with the chemistry. Darko doesn't seem to be a distraction to anybody but some fans.

Pistons might look at a team with multiple first rounders at draft time and try to ship Darko for a player they like and a salary that matches Darko's.

Can anyone confirm that this is actually a quote from Joe D in a recent Sports Illustrated article?

I pulled it off another forum in a post with no link.


"Darko will determine his ability to get on the floor for us. We don't have the luxury of putting him out there and saying, 'Oh, we'll just let him play through his mistakes for 15-20 minutes.' We're too good a team, and his mistakes are too high right now. Obviously he needs to be able to play through mistakes, but that's unfair to the other guys right now. Until he can get out there and play to the level of the other guys, his minutes will be few and far between."

I'm pretty sure I hear Flip say that, not Joe. I think it was recently when Darko seemed to be in the dog house for not trying hard in garbage time.

Looks like it was in fact, Joe D.

Interesting...

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=cnnsi-mainmen&prov=cnnsi&type=lgns

All the trade talk drama died pretty fast didn't it - then again Dumars always plays his hand close to chest and something could come out of nowhere.

Dumars saying that is basically saying he needs to trade Milicic. I mean we're going to be a good team next year as well, which means Milicic isn't going to get any playing time. Then he'll be a free-agent and teams will throw money at him, and we won't know what we have and if we should match.

Milicic has pretty much quit on the team and has accepted that he is not going to get any PT and would rather be traded. I think there is going to be hard feelings on his side from this whole ordeal and once he hits free-agency he'll bolt. Memo was his best freind when they were teammates, you don't think Memo is in his ear about getting the hell out of Detroit??

There was a strong feeling in the NBA community that the Artest trade was going to be made last weekend. However Artest is still in Indy, so until that changes I don't see deals happening, on the off chance a team may be able to get involved in the Artest sweepstakes.

Honestly IMO Walsh really wants to blow up the Pacers, however he can't very well do that if the team is playing well post Artest being traded. However if they tank before they move Artest he can say we had to make changes this roster wasn't going to win regardless of who we got for Ron.

Utah could always use another white guy. What does Utah have that we could use?

That they would give up ... Harpring perhaps.


There was a strong feeling in the NBA community that the Artest trade was going to be made last weekend. However Artest is still in Indy, so until that changes I don't see deals happening, on the off chance a team may be able to get involved in the Artest sweepstakes.

Honestly IMO Walsh really wants to blow up the Pacers, however he can't very well do that if the team is playing well post Artest being traded. However if they tank before they move Artest he can say we had to make changes this roster wasn't going to win regardless of who we got for Ron.

They are possibly looking to move Jackson and perhaps Tinsley as well.

I think the entire Indy team except O'Neal, Granger and Saras is for sale.

Artest trades mention Johnson, Croshere, Harrison and Pollard as possible throw-ins to make the numbers work.

Fred Jones wasn't extended so he could be had for the right price.

Tinsley keeps breaking down so you know they want to move him and Jackson isn't untouchable either.

http://www.hoopshype.com/interviews/oneal_nebojsa.htm


Q: Darko Milicic is having a very similar first few years in the league as you did. He’s not playing much, like you in Portland, and yet he was picked from a very high place in the draft. Is it only the change of environment that helped you show your true colors and become one of the premiere NBA players?

JO: Opportunity and right situation are everything in the NBA. I’m sure that if he keeps on doing what he’s doing right now and if somebody takes a chance on him, even if it’s not Detroit, as it was the case with me and Indiana. He just needs to keep getting better, keep working on his game, stay positive and believe in yourself more than anything else. Because everybody’s going to have an opinion about you. You know, sometimes I wonder what makes an analyst analyst… You can’t analyze a person’s heart and a person’s will. So my message to Darko will be: just keep on doing what got you here and keep getting better and that’s it. You know, there’s a reason why they took you as No. 2 in the draft.

Every situation isn’t good for you. I don’t think that Detroit is a good fit for Darko. Hopefully, he will come to the situation like here in Sacramento, on a team that goes up and down. He seems to have a nice touch with his jump shot and the ability to get up and down the floor. So, when his contract comes up, my advice for him is to go out and find the team that his game is well suited for and I think that he is going to really have a great chance if he keeps working, keep trying to get better and stay focused and believe in himself.

With such a giant fucking forehead you'd think he'd have a more powerful brain. What a fucking idiot. Like Flip's offense isn't a good fit for big men that shoot jumpers. Darko just flat out sucks. He's a lazy, whiny, stupid piece of shit. If the bum tried to earn his minutes instead of sulking because he thinks he's owed PT he might actually get it.

Joe has been listening to offers for 3 years now. I don't see anything said that wasn't said when we drafted darko. You think any GM in the league DOESN'T listen to offers? you think somebody calls him up and mentions the name 'darko' and he just plugs his ears and and screams "i can't hear you" like a little kid or something?

no player in the league is immune from being traded, Even Kobe, Duncan, Garnett or whoever. If you make an offer they will listen. They'd probably laugh at the idea but they WILL listen. It's their job to listen.

you think somebody calls him up and mentions the name 'darko' and he just plugs his ears and and screams "i can't hear you" like a little kid or something?


Actually, I got it from a good source that he plugs his ears and screams "LALALALALALALALA".

Snippet gleaned form ASB blog over at MLive -

...Even more teams have inquired about Darko, but there's no rush on the Pistons part to send him packing.

He's out of the rotation, and there are no signs that he will play his way back into steady minutes anytime soon.

The Pistons are expected to not offer him a contract extension, which would make him a restricted free agent after next season.

That would make sense for both sides.

Darko will be playing for his next contract, and the Pistons will get an opportunity if they want, to retain him after seeing how valuable he is to other teams in the NBA.

That's the plan for now, but even if Darko has a breakout season like Jermaine O'Neal had a few seasons back, don't expect him to be in a Pistons uniform beyond next season.

In order for this kid to ever play even remotely close to the level that a No. 2 overall draft pick plays at, he has to go somewhere else and do it with a bad team.

Detroit is too good, too deep and too committed to winning titles to allow him to develop and play through the mistakes that he will surely make if he were out there 15-20 minutes per game.

And Darko, deep down, knows this.

He's young, but the kid's not dumb.

Ben is not going anywhere. Rasheed is not going anywhere. McDyess is not going anywhere. As long as those guys are around, Darko is going to be nothing more than just another big man with a little role on the roster.

And because of that, Darko, like most Pistons fans, knows what to expect tonight.

^^That day can't come soon enough for me.

OK. That makes no sense. They don't want him and won't play him, but won't trade him. Then, if other teams show interest, they'll sign him and leave him on the bench?

What am I missing?

Lay off Darko, it's not his fault his heart is 2 sizes too small...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/c_hanes101/other/DarkoHeart.jpg

Very nice!

Lay off Darko, it's not his fault his heart is 2 sizes too small...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/c_hanes101/other/DarkoHeart.jpg

:laughing6:

Snippet gleaned form ASB blog over at MLive -

...Even more teams have inquired about Darko, but there's no rush on the Pistons part to send him packing.

He's out of the rotation, and there are no signs that he will play his way back into steady minutes anytime soon.

The Pistons are expected to not offer him a contract extension, which would make him a restricted free agent after next season.

That would make sense for both sides.

Darko will be playing for his next contract, and the Pistons will get an opportunity if they want, to retain him after seeing how valuable he is to other teams in the NBA.

That's the plan for now, but even if Darko has a breakout season like Jermaine O'Neal had a few seasons back, don't expect him to be in a Pistons uniform beyond next season.

In order for this kid to ever play even remotely close to the level that a No. 2 overall draft pick plays at, he has to go somewhere else and do it with a bad team.

Detroit is too good, too deep and too committed to winning titles to allow him to develop and play through the mistakes that he will surely make if he were out there 15-20 minutes per game.

And Darko, deep down, knows this.

He's young, but the kid's not dumb.

Ben is not going anywhere. Rasheed is not going anywhere. McDyess is not going anywhere. As long as those guys are around, Darko is going to be nothing more than just another big man with a little role on the roster.

And because of that, Darko, like most Pistons fans, knows what to expect tonight.

Article=false

OK. That makes no sense. They don't want him and won't play him, but won't trade him. Then, if other teams show interest, they'll sign him and leave him on the bench?

What am I missing?

Tay I think this is just GM talk. What ASB is saying is Joe knows this is a championship team regardless of Darko being part of it not. He will not trade Darko for the sake of dealing Darko, he is not in the business of making Darko happy he is in the business to win basketball games. He isn't going make another team better if his team doesn't benifit also. Therefore he is willing to pay Darko to sit today, tomorrow, and for however many years his next deal has since he can match, if team s don't start offering more, or what he wants. A lot of what he is doing is similar to what Walsh has don with Artest. BotH GM's aren't going to trade guys who are valuable to teams who need these guys if it doesn't help there team in one form another.

However like I said in a previous post I think Walsh wants to blow up the Pacers and doesn't want them to have a surge that puts the pressure on him to keep the roster another year.

According to ASB the price Joe wants is a top 15 pick and a player who can help now perhaps expiring. Which IMO isn't that much.

Joe is just sending a message to other GM's to up the offers or else nobody will see him play. The way the CBA is written Joe has all the power.

I disagree with this stance, I say make a deal get a pick and role player regardless it will help you more now and the next season than holding onto Darko.

Why do we need another pick and roll player??

We don't need anything really however, I think a lottery pick and role player would hep with depth.

I love our strarters just like everyone else. My fear is the same as last year, we don't have guys who come off the bench and score 20 every once in a while.

Other teams have change of pace guys. SA has Finley and NVE, Miami has Payton, Pacers have Jones and so on. I wish we had that type of vet because every year a guy like that helps win a playoff game, against.

I know we have Dice and Evans but those guys are regular rotation guys. I am talking about a luxary player who just comes in and cause mismatches in short stretches. Somebody who helps open up the offense or forces turnovers that lead to offense.

In our Championship run Mike James, EC and in the later rounds Corliss were those players.

Last year we didn't have that player outside of EC in the ECF.

I might be wrong about needing a guy like that I just see it has a nice addition for contending team, instead of having a lump of youth sitting round after round.

I wasn't questioning you, I was trying to be a smart ass is all...



...I disagree with this stance, I say make a deal get a pick and role player regardless it will help you more now and the next season than holding onto Darko.


Why do we need another pick and roll player??

Role vs roll....

One problem right now is there is a lot of mediocrity in the NBA and it's hard to pick what teams will finish in the lottery.

Key,

I read that after I posted and realized either you were joking or thought I meant Pick & Roll player not questioning why we needed bench help.

Well, we should have the Ultimate Darko Trade Thread.

In that thread we should post EVERY SINGLE Darko trade we can come up with.

Then narrow it down to the ones that actually make sense for both teams, then email Joe with the list.

Anyone up for this?

doubt it

Detroit Trade Breakdown
Outgoing

Carlos Arroyo
6-2 PG from Florida International
4.0 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 3.5 apg in 13.2 minutes

Darko Milicic
7-0 C from Serbia-Montenegro (Foreign)
1.3 ppg, 1.2 rpg, 0.4 apg in 6.2 minutes
Incoming

Delonte West
6-4 PG from St. Joseph's
11.1 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 4.2 apg in 32.8 minutes

Ricky Davis
6-7 SG from Iowa
20.6 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 5.4 apg in 42.2 minutes
Change in team outlook: +26.4 ppg, +6.1 rpg, and +5.7 apg.

Boston Trade Breakdown
Outgoing

Delonte West
6-4 PG from St. Joseph's
11.1 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 4.2 apg in 32.8 minutes

Ricky Davis
6-7 SG from Iowa
20.6 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 5.4 apg in 42.2 minutes
Incoming

Carlos Arroyo
6-2 PG from Florida International
4.0 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 3.5 apg in 13.2 minutes

Darko Milicic
7-0 C from Serbia-Montenegro (Foreign)
1.3 ppg, 1.2 rpg, 0.4 apg in 6.2 minutes
Change in team outlook: -26.4 ppg, -6.1 rpg, and -5.7 apg.

Trade accepted

If joe did could pull this off......

i think the Celtics are high on Delonte west....i don't htink they'd trade him and Davis. besides, two of their starters for one bench player and one who rarely gets minutes?

Next year's draft is going to suck without HS guys in it. Not that they particularly do anything the first few years, but it makes the draft seem deeper. The 2007 draft is going to be loaded.


Art

Next year's draft is going to suck without HS guys in it. Not that they particularly do anything the first few years, but it makes the draft seem deeper. The 2007 draft is going to be loaded.


Art
maybe, will just give college players more oppurtunities. more fundamental sound players in this draft. less raw talent and1 mixtape wannabe's who cant dribble w/o carrying the ball. :D

How about Darko and Arroyo for Bynum and Parker?









:lol:

Milicic isn't a bust but is wrong fit

Chris McCosky / The Detroit News

Burning questions as we near the season's midway point:

Q . Almost halfway through his third season, can we officially call Darko Milicic a bust?

A . No. If the Pistons were to release him today or trade him, thus essentially acknowledging they've given up on him, then, yeah, you could call him a bust.

They haven't given up on him. He still is only 20. He still has NBA skill, and he does some things (quickness, footwork and passing skills) that most guys his size can't do.

There is still some serious upside to this guy. I don't think he's ever going to be a star, and given he was a No. 2 overall pick, most might use that and conclude he was a bust.

But I still see him having a long and somewhat productive career, perhaps one similar to that of a Rik Smits or Detlef Schrempf, guys who averaged around 14 points and eight rebounds over long careers.

The thing is, though, I don't think that will ever happen here.

Q . Why do you say that?

A . Because there's just been a bad mix of expectation and immaturity and negativity for him here, and I don't think it's in his heart or mind to fight through it. I get the sense he is angling for a clean start somewhere else.

He didn't respond to Larry Brown's tough love, and he's not responding to Flip Saunders' kinder, gentler approach. What can you do? He doesn't play or practice with any real passion or sense of urgency.

You watch him during the three-on-three scrimmages at the end of practice, and he's just going through the motions. Established veterans such as Dale Davis and Lindsey Hunter are playing these scrimmages like their lives are on the line, really competing hard. Milicic, meanwhile, mostly stands around the perimeter, jacking up three-point shots, not bothering to get inside and mix it up under the basket.

He just seems resigned to the fact he never will be able to play a meaningful role on this team, and he's simply biding his time until his contract runs out.

Being a finesse player is not necessarily a fatal flaw. Being a perimeter-oriented 7-footer who can distribute the ball isn't always a bad thing, either. There are places where those types of attributes are welcomed and rewarded.

But not here. On a team of tough, hard-nosed players who grind night in and night out, Milicic's softer style just doesn't play very well -- not to the fans and not to his teammates.


GET RID OF HIM NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Chris McObvious is at it again.

Chris McObvious is at it again.

I actually thought this was one of his bolder pieces, even if it should be obvious.

Anything outside of "the company line" is a shock from him.

The only hope I have for Milicic ever possibly staying here is that we are the NBA equivilant to the land of misfit toys and he'll eventually relish that. Of course being an outcast of outcasts might make him fit in on most other teams.

The problem we have isn't that there isn't any suitors who wouldn't trade for him, it's that we like our team so much right now that we can't trade him because the player coming back in return could screw things up. Our last weakness is a solid 2/3 back-up, and if the switch finally flipped in Delfino's head, he could be our man.

The best opportunity I feel to move Milicic would be to wait until the trade deadline(or close to it) and see who is surely out of the play-offs and then deal him for an unprotected 2006 draft pick. Right now the league is so mediocre any team could fill the 6-7-8 spots in the play-offs, even the Raps or Hawks.

Otherwise we might as well keep him around until the off-season. Another reason for keeping him to the deadline is that it would protect us against injury in the sense that if we lose a rotation piece, we could move Milicic to fill that hole.

No GM is going to take him for even a bag of better made imitation cheetos.

No GM is going to take him for even a bag of better made imitation cheetos.

What about one of those little, personal bags they sell in combo meals at Subway?

http://www.feast4u.com/subway/images/user/fresh-value-meal-c.gif

Maybe we could sucker Danny Ainge into a steal like that?

There is absoultely no reason to trade Millicic. None.

He is not a cancer. He is younger than half the players in the NCAA. We have the luxery to wait and see if he can pan out. If he becomes a FA we have his bird rights and we can make a decsion on him when he is 21, which would be like a another draft pick.

He's going to walk at the end of his contract.

No GM is going to take him for even a bag of better made imitation cheetos.

What about one of those little, personal bags they sell in combo meals at Subway?

http://www.feast4u.com/subway/images/user/fresh-value-meal-c.gif

Maybe we could sucker Danny Ainge into a steal like that?


What the fuck? You know how long i've been suggesting this deal?

He's going to walk at the end of his contract.

He cant "just walk", we have him by the balls. If someone wants him that badly, they will need to compensate Joe.

What balls?

All I know is many folks said Memo had no balls, that he had no hands. The same folks said similar things about Delfino. Give it some time. We do not need him right now.

All I know is many folks said Memo had no balls

Ahhh, fine memories of the old Memo Meter.

How do we have him by the balls? He's a restricted FA after next season but he could simply take the qualifying offer sit on the bench one more year and then bolt. Get something for him while we can.

Milicic isn't a bust but is wrong fit

Chris McCosky / The Detroit News

Burning questions as we near the season's midway point:

Q . Almost halfway through his third season, can we officially call Darko Milicic a bust?

A . No. If the Pistons were to release him today or trade him, thus essentially acknowledging they've given up on him, then, yeah, you could call him a bust.

They haven't given up on him. He still is only 20. He still has NBA skill, and he does some things (quickness, footwork and passing skills) that most guys his size can't do.

There is still some serious upside to this guy. I don't think he's ever going to be a star, and given he was a No. 2 overall pick, most might use that and conclude he was a bust.

But I still see him having a long and somewhat productive career, perhaps one similar to that of a Rik Smits or Detlef Schrempf, guys who averaged around 14 points and eight rebounds over long careers.

The thing is, though, I don't think that will ever happen here.

Q . Why do you say that?

A . Because there's just been a bad mix of expectation and immaturity and negativity for him here, and I don't think it's in his heart or mind to fight through it. I get the sense he is angling for a clean start somewhere else.

He didn't respond to Larry Brown's tough love, and he's not responding to Flip Saunders' kinder, gentler approach. What can you do? He doesn't play or practice with any real passion or sense of urgency.

You watch him during the three-on-three scrimmages at the end of practice, and he's just going through the motions. Established veterans such as Dale Davis and Lindsey Hunter are playing these scrimmages like their lives are on the line, really competing hard. Milicic, meanwhile, mostly stands around the perimeter, jacking up three-point shots, not bothering to get inside and mix it up under the basket.

He just seems resigned to the fact he never will be able to play a meaningful role on this team, and he's simply biding his time until his contract runs out.

Being a finesse player is not necessarily a fatal flaw. Being a perimeter-oriented 7-footer who can distribute the ball isn't always a bad thing, either. There are places where those types of attributes are welcomed and rewarded.

But not here. On a team of tough, hard-nosed players who grind night in and night out, Milicic's softer style just doesn't play very well -- not to the fans and not to his teammates.

BURN HIM!!!@#!@#(*&^@!#$!@$

All I know is many folks said Memo had no balls, that he had no hands. The same folks said similar things about Delfino. Give it some time. We do not need him right now.

The difference is that Memo got PT to show what he was. We also had cap space (if we renounced Sheed) to sign him if we wanted to. Darko is a different situation. He has not had enough PT to know whether he's worth even the MLE at this point. At the same time, we are over the cap, with 3 significant extensions coming up. If we decide to match whatever offer, Davidson will certainly be paying double that with taxes at some point. How is Joe going to justify that when Darko does jack squat to show he deserves it?

Joe has a decision to make. Either trade Dyess to play Darko, or trade him to get the best that you can. I doubt we trade Dyess when clearly we are heading towards another finals chance. So that means we decide to pay any cost to retain Darko and wait on him, or we get what we can for him. Luckily we aren't in dire need and Joe can wait for a good offer, but we can't wait forever.

He's going to walk at the end of his contract.

He cant "just walk", we have him by the balls. If someone wants him that badly, they will need to compensate Joe.

no, they just need to offer him more than Joe was planning to offer him.

Memo at his worst was way better than Darko at his best. I think people started ripping on Memo because of that weird Turkish guy that would post on the board after every game calling out Ben and LB for losing the game. That bugs the hell out of me.

That and certain Piston fans proclaiming that if it weren't for Lucifer Brown Memo would be a 24/13 THIS YEAR (refering to 03-04 season). He just needs to be allowed to play HIS GAME!

Ugh.

He's going to walk at the end of his contract.

He cant "just walk", we have him by the balls. If someone wants him that badly, they will need to compensate Joe.


He can't walk after 07 but he can after 08. Which may end up being the reason he needs to be moved maybe not this season but perhaps next it may become a factor.

From the little I know his agent may be encouraging thoughts of doing what Radmonvic and Swift did. If Darko agrees to his 1 year tender after the end of the 06-07 season in 08 at the tender age of 23 he is an UFA. Now there is the risk of not getting a huge offer after signing a 1 year tender, but at age 23 some team will be willing to take the risk more so than if he were 28 or 29.

Given how the team is playing right now - there is no reason to trade him because we don't have any needs. We could have moved him for a 2/3 swing but Delfino and Evans are really coming on lately.

I think we keep Milicic around in case of key injury where he could be moved to fil that hole. Barring any such injury, we could look to move him this off-season. Or we could hold on to him and hope the kid matures and gets a friggin clue. I mean how can he watch the Maxiells, Delfino's go out and bust their ass in "garbage" minutes and not do the same?? How can he watch Amir Johnson and Acker do all that is asked of them and then some each and every practise and still play diva??

If the kid had a clue he'd realize he's getting paid a lifetimes worth of money 10x over to practice hard and give 100% effort. He would see that his time ins't now, it's in 2 years when Rasheed will be in the last year of his contract, when Ben will be slowing down, when McDyess will be elsewhere, when Davis would be a year removed already. He's an Apprentice - I have friends who are plumbers apprentice right now - it's a five year deal where they get paid nothing and have to do all of the shitty jobs(literally). When he's done Apprenticing he's going to have $20M and be all of 23 yrs old.

If he thinks he can pound the pooch for the next two and a half years and expect to turn it on and find a work ethic he's sorely mistaken.

When Hunter comes back and takes a roster spot, I'd open up the last spot on the active roster to competition between Maxiell and Milicic. After the days shootaround the two would play a one-on-one game with the winner getting the roster spot for that nights game.

He's going to walk at the end of his contract.

He cant "just walk", we have him by the balls. If someone wants him that badly, they will need to compensate Joe.

no, they just need to offer him more than Joe was planning to offer him.

The Hawks offered JJ more than the Suns were planning, and they got a great package.

He can't walk after 07 but he can after 08. Which may end up being the reason he needs to be moved maybe not this season but perhaps next it may become a factor.

From the little I know his agent may be encouraging thoughts of doing what Radmonvic and Swift did. If Darko agrees to his 1 year tender after the end of the 06-07 season in 08 at the tender age of 23 he is an UFA. Now there is the risk of not getting a huge offer after signing a 1 year tender, but at age 23 some team will be willing to take the risk more so than if he were 28 or 29.

We can't let it get to the tender situation or we're screwed. Look at what Seattle has in Radmon. They can't trade him because nobody wants him without his bird rights. Same thing with Darko. If we are going to trade him, it has to be before the deadline to sign the qualifying offer. If he signs it, he's basically gone for nothing.

He's going to walk at the end of his contract.

He cant "just walk", we have him by the balls. If someone wants him that badly, they will need to compensate Joe.

no, they just need to offer him more than Joe was planning to offer him.

The Hawks offered JJ more than the Suns were planning, and they got a great package.

Yes, so then what you're saying is that you hope they team that makes the offer is as dumb as the Hawks because no other team would have paid plus added 2 first rd picks...Diaw and a unprotected lotto pick.

He's going to walk at the end of his contract.

He cant "just walk", we have him by the balls. If someone wants him that badly, they will need to compensate Joe.

no, they just need to offer him more than Joe was planning to offer him.

The Hawks offered JJ more than the Suns were planning, and they got a great package.

Yes, so then what you're saying is that you hope they team that makes the offer is as dumb as the Hawks because no other team would have paid plus added 2 first rd picks...Diaw and a unprotected lotto pick.

Maybe we just get picks, maybe we get a vet, maybe we get to throw poop at Darko on the way out the door, but Joe doesn't let Darko walk you dopes. Of course we won't get that deal, but he'll get something.

Given how the team is playing right now - there is no reason to trade him because we don't have any needs. We could have moved him for a 2/3 swing but Delfino and Evans are really coming on lately.

Agreed. But something needs to be done. I wouldn't mind seeing him play about 5 mins a night as the #4 big man. Let him play, get a little experience, so if needed in the playoffs (injuries, Shaq fouls) he's somewhat ready.

I gotta do it.......unleash Darko. [smilie=freedarko.g:

In the offseason, I think we should move him with Evans or Delfino for another big or wing.

Did anyone hear Steven A. Smith pull a Calvin Kato for Darko trade OUT OF HIS ASS? He was on camera and you could tell he was making that shit up on the spot. He end it by saying something like, "that was earlier in the week so it doesn't look like that's going to go down."

Just by the amount of press this "Darko on the block" story is getting without Dumars coming out and saying anything about it, its clear Darko still has a pretty high amount of trade value

Steven A. Smith is said to have mentioned Orlando and Detroit in a rumor that would send Kelvin Cato to Detroit for Carlos Arroyo and Darko Milicic. You have to believe Detroit was getting another player in return.

Would you do a Jameer Nelson and Kelvin Cato for Carlos Arroyo and Darko Milicic trade?? Cato is expiring after this season and would be a depth center this season.

I don't touch this deal simply because I don't trade a 7'1" 265lb 20 yr old for a back-up point guard. I would feel a helluva lot more confident with Jameer should Billups get injured for any length of time though. And Cato would give us another big man/center depth.

Chauncey Billups|Jameer Nelson|Lindsay Hunter|Alex Acker
Richard Hamilton|Carlos Delfino
Tayshaun Prince|Mo Evans|Amir Johnson
Ben Wallace|Dale Davis|Kelvin Cato
Rasheed Wallace|Antonio McDyess|Jason Maxiell

Did anyone hear Steven A. Smith pull a Calvin Kato for Darko trade OUT OF HIS ASS? He was on camera and you could tell he was making that shit up on the spot. He end it by saying something like, "that was earlier in the week so it doesn't look like that's going to go down."

Just by the amount of press this "Darko on the block" story is getting without Dumars coming out and saying anything about it, its clear Darko still has a pretty high amount of trade value

He actually said that Orlando offered Cato for Arroyo and Milicic. It is assumed that there would have to be another player included as that trade would be to ridiculous to offer with a straight face. If Arroyo was going, that would mean that Orlando would have to be shipping a PG back because they already have Dooling, Deiner, Francis and Nelson.

You're more that likely correct that he made that up on the spot.

Cato is an expiring contract, isn't he? In that case maybe Orlando can include the draft rights to Fran Vazquez. Or a future 1st round pick.

Not Fran and another overseas player. Leave him with the Magic

Nelson is looking great for the Magic as he has put up quality numbers over the last week or so.

Not Fran and another overseas player. Leave him with the Magic

Nelson is looking great for the Magic as he has put up quality numbers over the last week or so.

So in essence you want to trade a 7'1" 260lb 21 year old for a back-up point guard?

Wouldnt mind if Nelson showed some effort and i know he does because he is productive as of late

I'm not really that sure on why Joe likes Nelson so much. I don't know what a draft pick from Orlando would really be worth either, they could get very good very quickly.


When I think about an Arroyo+Darko for Cato+Nelson+1strounder, i think i'd ive it a shot though.

Not Fran and another overseas player. Leave him with the Magic

Nelson is looking great for the Magic as he has put up quality numbers over the last week or so.

So in essence you want to trade a 7'1" 260lb 21 year old for a back-up point guard?

No, I want to trade a 3rd string 7fter with character issues for a rising star that could be a chauncey replacement 2 yrs down the road should he bolt for some crazy max deal.

Nice Varsity, very nice.

Moving Darko and Arroyo for Nelson and Cato would be a good move.

We have a better back-up PG for the moment and long-term he could be a starter.

We also have a capable big man that can play.

The fact that Cato is an expiring contract just makes the deal even better for us. We save some cash, which is needed after extending Tay and looking to extend Ben and Chauncey.

If the Magic threw in a Lotto protected first I'd jump on this in a heartbeat

Actually, even without the pick it's a good deal.

I guess I just feel that dealing Darko is a good move.

Getting a young prospect like Nelson might not be the best deal available, but if this was all we could get I'd do it

So in essence you want to trade a 7'1" 260lb 21 year old for a back-up point guard?

No, I want to trade a 3rd string 7fter with character issues for a rising star that could be a chauncey replacement 2 yrs down the road should he bolt for some crazy max deal.

You see a rising star, I see a career backup/marginal starter.

He is a score first, look for his teammates second kind of PG who is a better shooter and a better defender than Arroyo. With the way Dice, Delfino and Evans have been playing shouldn't we be looking for a PG that won't dominate the ball?

Arroyo Nelson

13.1 Minutes 28.2
3.8 Points 13.8
3.5 Assists 4.4
1.6 Rebounds 3.0
1.0 Turnovers 2.5
1.8 Fouls 2.6
39.2% FG 47%
50% 3P 43.9%
68% FT% 76.2%

Other than the improvements in shooting % (and the defense), I don't see how he is better than Arroyo. Arroyo does just as well as he does on the offensive end (minus scoring) in half the minutes.

And the 3rd string 7fter with character issues you mention is better than the 3rd sting 7fter that we will receive in the trade.

PS. I am not necessarily against this trade. I just disagree with the fact that everyone considers this an upgrade in talent.

He got all the shit stats when Francis logged in alot of minutes.

Nelson showed signs of improvement as Francis played less and less.

Especially when he got suspended, Nelson stepped it up. Nelson is a developing playmaker and i would love to have him

He got all the shit stats when Francis logged in alot of minutes.

Nelson showed signs of improvement as Francis played less and less.

Especially when he got suspended, Nelson stepped it up. Nelson is a developing playmaker and i would love to have him

That's a cop out excuse.

I could say the same about Arroyo and his playing time.

But it's the facts

Ok here are his last 4 games.

19 pts, 13 assists, 5 rebounds, 1 steal, 3 TO. Portland

29 pts. 9 assists, 3 rebounds, 3 steals, 2 TO. Sac Town

22 pts, 5 assists, 5 rebounds, 1 steal, 5 TO. Washington

9 points, 6 assists, 1 rebound, 2 steals, 2 TO. Charlotte

Some more consistency would be nice but hey, everyone has their off games. His turnovers could be worked on but he's got good game overall but thats JMO

So H1Man you consider Nelson to be a better shooter and a better defender than Arroyo?

For those that think Nelson dominates the ball in Orlando:

In our system do you expect him to play the exact same way he does for them?

If you believe that both Arroyo and Nelson dominate the ball wouldn't you prefer the better shooting, better defending ball dominator?

I would.

And consider the money saved in this trade. That might not be much of a factor to us because we don't give a fuck how much luxury tax Billy D has to pay but I'm sure it's a factor for the front office.

Does anyone realise that Arroyo and Darko combined salary next season is $9,218,622?

Assuming we do this trade and then dump Cato in the off-season. Let's also assume we don't sign another big man. After all Mad Max should be ready for some playing time next season.

How much would Nelson cost next season?

The answer: $1,272,120

Money saved in this trade: $7,946,502

Luxury Tax Savings: $15,893,004

I'd say that's a huge reason to do this trade.

In fact, consider IF we signed another big man and paid him what Dale Davis is getting ($3,500,000 this season and next) just to replace Darko/Cato as an insurance policy.

Salary Saved from this move: $4,446,502

Luxury Tax Savings: $8,893,004

Well said Pharoah, just another reason why Nelson would beneift the Pistons more than Arroyo [smilie=applause.gi:

Cross - could you post who those games were against?

I just want to be certain he didn't play 4 really shitty teams.

Unfortunately, those were shitty teams...but who cares, he played well.LOL

I'd love to know who Nelson matched up against in those games though.

Felton and Knight in Charlotte would be tough.

Gilbert Arenas and Antonio Daniels for the Wizards is tough too.

Then you've got Bibby in Sacramento and I know Portland have Jarrett Jack, Juan Dixon and Steve Blake playing PG at times.

All those match-ups would be tough, especially with the injury problems Orlando has had and the fact their team is pretty shit.

So H1Man you consider Nelson to be a better shooter and a better defender than Arroyo?

For those that think Nelson dominates the ball in Orlando:

In our system do you expect him to play the exact same way he does for them?

If you believe that both Arroyo and Nelson dominate the ball wouldn't you prefer the better shooting, better defending ball dominator?

I would.

I would too if it wasn't for the fact that he dominates the ball a lot on offense. On average, he takes 11 shots a game (Billups, Sheed and Prince average around 12.5) while barely outproducing Arroyo in other categories (except for shooting %). I would rather have Dice and the rest of the bench take those shots than him. Granted he is the better defender and shooter but I am not sold on the fact that he will be a better fit to our team. Especially at mid-season.


And consider the money saved in this trade. That might not be much of a factor to us because we don't give a fuck how much luxury tax Billy D has to pay but I'm sure it's a factor for the front office.

Does anyone realise that Arroyo and Darko combined salary next season is $9,218,622?

Assuming we do this trade and then dump Cato in the off-season. Let's also assume we don't sign another big man. After all Mad Max should be ready for some playing time next season.

How much would Nelson cost next season?

The answer: $1,272,120

Money saved in this trade: $7,946,502

Luxury Tax Savings: $15,893,004

I'd say that's a huge reason to do this trade.

In fact, consider IF we signed another big man and paid him what Dale Davis is getting ($3,500,000 this season and next) just to replace Darko/Cato as an insurance policy.

Salary Saved from this move: $4,446,502

Luxury Tax Savings: $8,893,004

Pharaoh,

My problem is not with the trade itself but with the fact that people assume this is an upgrade in talent. I realize that this trade will be beneficial to us in the short term both financially and impact wise. But I believe that a trade during the offseason might be more worthwhile to us.

Tell me can you feel me? I'm not livin in the past.
You wanna last? Be the first to blast - remember Cato.

I think that a lotto pick or Fran Vasquez(depending on Joe's opinion of him) would need to be added. We will need a long term Darko replacement. This could be gotten with the MLE, Draft, or trade, but I don't want to leave it up to chance.

I love Nelson, but I want more long term than just him.

I like Jameer, and Cato would be a good depth center for us. If we made this trade I think we'd be solid at every position shouod an injury befall a starter. Right now I don't trust Arroyo as a starter should Billups go down and Davis as the only true center back-up for Ben isn't a good idea either. This would give us Davis and Cato to be able to split time and hopefully be able to bridge the gap until Ben could return.

Last season Cato averaged 7 points, 7 rebounds and 1.32 blocks in 24 minutes while shooting over 50% from the field and 70% from the line. Davis averaged 7 points, 9 rebounds and 1.32 blocks when in Indiana last year in 29mpg.

However I still cannot give up the potential in Milicic for such a package(it would be selling him for all intents and purposes). I'd definitely need a first round draft pick included in this deal to even consider it. Maybe top three protected this year and unprotected next year sorta deal.

Jameer is 23 yrs old, Arroyo is 26, and though Nelson might be an upgrade, I don't think it is nearly enough to offset the Milicic potential.

the biggest factor in any darko trade is really stuff we have no clue about.

Darko does seem to be progessing if you ask me, even though he rarely plays. He's ahead of davis on the bench, that's a big step because he actually has someone behind him now.

HE will not beat out Ben or Rasheed anytime soon though. His contributions right now could be matched by quite a few people in the league.

So the real question in the trade is whether Darko has told Joe or anyone that he will not re sign in detroit. then you have to trade him.

If he just could show some passion for the game, we wouldnt even be close to having this discussion.

Just a 10% improvement on passion would make him nearly untradeable and in 2 years the 6th man.


Art

I don't think he is ahead of Davis in the rotation - well he is now, but that's not because he is outplaying Davis, we're saving Davis for our late season run leading upto and including the play-offs. Remember Davis played little minutes for most of last season until he landed in Indiana before the waiver deadline. In Indiana he played really well, but was that because he didn't play most of the season until that point??

Milicici is a 20 yr old kid, he probably changes his mind more than he changes his underwear. Even if he told me he wasn't going to return, I wouldn't necessarily look to trade him right now. I think a lot of Milicic's perception depends on playing time. As long as we can get him some playing time next season I think he'd see the light at the end of the tunnel and stick around. Similarly if we trade him to a team where he's getting playing time I don't think he'll still push for unrestricted free-agency(like Radmanovic).

I would like to know if Milicic is bonding with any of his teammates as friends/teammates and not as the mascot/littlebrother.

MUHME - What do you see at practises. Is he at least getting along with the younger kids on our roster(Maxiell, Delfino, Acker, Johnson) or is he still out on an island?

The bottom line is, when Milicic becomes a free agent, who will throw money at him? What GM is going to throw Darko more money than the Pistons can offer when they havent seen him play AT ALL. They won't. Joe proceeds to sign Milicic for a reasonable number, Darko then proceeds on doing his development jig till one of the big 3 decides to retire.

The only issue with that thinking is that Milicic might not be after the biggest offer. He could accept a Detroit qualifying offer, play the year and then go somewhere else where he'll get playing time.

The bottom line is, when Milicic becomes a free agent, who will throw money at him? What GM is going to throw Darko more money than the Pistons can offer when they havent seen him play AT ALL. They won't. Joe proceeds to sign Milicic for a reasonable number, Darko then proceeds on doing his development jig till one of the big 3 decides to retire.

[smilie=arrgh.jpg] It will not be good for Detroit if Darko ever cracks the starting lineup. That is when this team goes back to winning 20 games a year. I am sorry guys, give up on Darko here in Detroit...

I've been watching Arroyo intently lately and every time I see him play I hate him even more. All he does is stand there and dribble. He misses open guys ALL the time. The guy has 2-3 great passes a game and the rest of the time we simply have a stalling offense that Delfino bails out with a three, or Dyess bails out with a nice jumper. Arroyo plain sucks IMO. I haven't seen Nelson at all this year, but just judging by the numbers he would be a lot better. He has to be a better defender too.

I'm not sure this is the best we can get for Darko, but we HAVE to get something. I'm convinced he has to go, since he'll never get PT by the time his contract is up. And Joe will never pay him more than the MLE (which he will be offered for sure by other teams) when we'll be in luxery tax land.

I might do this deal, but I definately would with a first rounder in there. What about swapping first rounders in the deal?

I might do this deal, but I definately would with a first rounder in there. What about swapping first rounders in the deal?


pistons don't have a first rounder to swap. detroit could swap a second or two for a first though.

that's right, i forgot the Arroyo pick was this year. Since we can't trade consecutive future firsts, it would have to be our 2nd and Philly's second rounder.

Assuming we got our backup PG (and eventual starter) of the future, we wouldn't have much use for the 2nd rounders anyway. This team is already very deep.

Don't have Philly's second rounder either Chris.

They got one from Utah and gave it to us lasy Draft - we got Acker with it.

We could do our second + Minny's second though

Or they could trade a future 1st or 2nd rounder.

Don't have Philly's second rounder either Chris.

They got one from Utah and gave it to us lasy Draft - we got Acker with it.

We could do our second + Minny's second though

WTF, why can't these sites update their picks owed, salaries, etc.

What sites did you look at?

NBADraft.net hasn't been updated but I didn't look elsewhere.

I only remember a few teams though - which is why we need Grizz's database (expanded edition lol) to be on the net somewhere.

BTW, salaries are hard to get right per season because the MAX changes depending on BRI.

Same with the MLE.

Example: if you looked up Dice's salary prior to October 2005 and then looked now it's been changed (trust me, I wrote it all down).

That's due to the new CBA and the BRI.

for salaries i used the hoopshype one. as for the picks owed, that was from RealGM. If we could have full databases on that stuff that would be stellar, but it would take a lot of work to maintain it. I'm sure grizz already puts a ton of time into his now.

If he wanted to hand over SOME control I'm certain people here could help.

JS and I discussed a lot of ideas with Grizz a long time ago. We'll see what happens.

BTW, check out Magloire's pay this year on Hoopshype. Do they have it?

(last time I looked they didn't)

What sites did you look at?
BTW, salaries are hard to get right per season because the MAX changes depending on BRI.

Same with the MLE.

Example: if you looked up Dice's salary prior to October 2005 and then looked now it's been changed (trust me, I wrote it all down).

That's due to the new CBA and the BRI.
Could you elaborate? I thought all individual contracts have fixed amounts, save for those max extensions. For Dice, I don't understand how his contract gets affected. His starting salary was the full MLE amount of the year he signed with us, and salaries of subsequent years are based on that starting salary and the raise percentage in the contract(governed by the old CBA), which is 10% I believe.

The MLE changes depending on Basketball Related Income.

Other contracts that change:

Bi-Annual Exception (what used to be the LLE)

Max contracts

MLE changes that's true.

But his contract doesn't depend on MLE of subsequent years.
It was fixed by the MLE of 2004.

^yeah, I don't understand what you are saying either Pharaoh. They wouldn't change as the MLE changes. That only effects the amount of money they can spend, not the contracts already signed with it.

BTW, salaries are hard to get right per season because the MAX changes depending on BRI.

Same with the MLE.

Example: if you looked up Dice's salary prior to October 2005 and then looked now it's been changed (trust me, I wrote it all down).

That's due to the new CBA and the BRI.

Oh, sorry guys. My post is fucked up. Didn't realise it

It should read:

BTW, salaries are hard to get right per season because the MAX changes depending on BRI.

Same with the MLE.

That's due to the changes in the CBA and BRI.

NOTE: if you looked up Dice's salary prior to October 2005 and then looked now it's been changed (trust me, I wrote it all down).

Sorry once again - that will teach me for not viewing my post after I submit it