I couldn't be more excited to have WTF back again. I won't have much computer access for the next week. But, I just wanted to let everyone know that DrTre is back and ready to spit fire once more. Looking forward to many good old MSU/UM battles. See y'all in a week.
-Peace :glasses5:

Welcome back.

We've sorta been waiting for you.

Whom?

Is it one on one or will Mood be joining soon? Not that I need the backup, I can take you pretty easy all by myself. lol
Welcome back son

I couldn't be more excited to have WTF back again. I won't have much computer access for the next week. But, I just wanted to let everyone know that DrTre is back and ready to spit fire once more. Looking forward to many good old MSU/UM battles. See y'all in a week.
-Peace :glasses5:GO STATE!

I got your back Jethro! Let's take this cat out!

oh hell yeah!!!!!

Down with Sparty!!!

Go Blue.....I am feelin' this site

Me and Tre are the only state fans here I think.

Me and Tre are the only state fans here I think.

Hardly...and with your bullshit opinion that Neitzel sucks and can't be the PG of a team that wins a title (even though he was the PG of a team last year that made it to the Final Four :roll: ), I'm really starting to question YOUR allegiance to the school.

:)

You all know that Im diehard MSU. Any time, any place, any one. Bring it.

Nice choke job to Nebraska BTW.

And before I hear all the "at least we made it to a bowl" baloney, come on. If youre such the better program why are you losing bowl game after bowl game?

You wrote the answer yourself. First of all, the last two bowl losses before this year were to USC and Texas. I think those are understandable, and I think Michigan played those teams as well or better than any other teams had in those seasons.

For the Nebraska game, ANYONE who watched it knows it was a ripoff, easily the worst officiating of the century. To know Michigan deserved a bowl in in their worst season in years is sufficient.

But the bottom line is, we're losing Bowl games that you're nowhere near making it to. State's goal at the beginning of every season is the Motor City Bowl. That's just sad.

You all know that Im diehard MSU. Any time, any place, any one. Bring it.

Nice choke job to Nebraska BTW.

And before I hear all the "at least we made it to a bowl" baloney, come on. If youre such the better program why are you losing bowl game after bowl game? :headbang:

Right on Jethro. One of the most comical things about college football every year are the Sparty fans that come out of nowhere when they've beaten Austin Peay, Kent State, Hawaii, and Notre Dame and are 4-0. These cats are heard saying things like "we're back, and we're the top sports school in the nation" (I don't know who that would be :wink: ). But us Michigan fans know the inevitable will happen, you'll lose to us again and then it's all downhill from there and you can take losses to Northwestern, Purdue, and Penn St. to the bank. Maybe Wizzle can tell us the "Sparty Comet" parable. Very comical.

Sure, we had a down year for various reasons, but don't ever talk about football.

Maybe their football team gets so geeked about beating Hawaii because it's something their basketball team can't do. Hahahaha

(kinda like Michigan getting excited about beating Notre Dame in hoops - gotta be fair)

At least our team lives up to its preseason hype. #3 to 7-5 ????
I got your back Steve, Spartan pride!

You don't want Steve's back.

By the way, is Wizzle the one and only God of War? I assume so, based on his location.

Welcome either way Wizz.

At least our team lives up to its preseason hype. #3 to 7-5 ????
I got your back Steve, Spartan pride! :notworthy:

We had a mental break down. I gaurntee we get a good bowl game next season.(Not BCS, but a reasonable bowl)

We had a mental break down. I gaurntee we get a good bowl game next season.(Not BCS, but a reasonable bowl)

Now that's downright hilarious.

We had a mental break down. I gaurntee we get a good bowl game next season.(Not BCS, but a reasonable bowl)

next year i see michigan, ohio state, and penn state all better than MSU in the big ten. a bowl is a bowl though. give me the motor citiy bowl before i want them sitting home. that would be a good time IMO.

it'll be interesting to see if john l smith abandons the gimick spread, and adopts some real football tactics. i'm tired of the spartans quick 5-0 or 6-1 starts, only to fall on their faces because the gimick is exposed every season.

[quote="Biochemical Equationit'll be interesting to see if john l smith abandons the gimick spread, and adopts some real football tactics. i'm tired of the spartans quick 5-0 or 6-1 starts, only to fall on their faces because the gimick is exposed every season.[/quote]

At least he's not running the WCO. His offense is decent if he sticks with it. The problem is, he's not a head coach. He's an offensive coordinator and when he gets bogged down with doing everything else, he losses focus and his team falls apart.

[quote="Biochemical Equationit'll be interesting to see if john l smith abandons the gimick spread, and adopts some real football tactics. i'm tired of the spartans quick 5-0 or 6-1 starts, only to fall on their faces because the gimick is exposed every season.

At least he's not running the WCO. His offense is decent if he sticks with it. The problem is, he's not a head coach. He's an offensive coordinator and when he gets bogged down with doing everything else, he losses focus and his team falls apart.[/quote]

thank god for no wco.

i see your point. the proof is when we lost vs ohio state this year, the turning point of the game being ohio state returning that blocked punt, in which we did not have ENOUGH guys on the field. bullshit.

are you a reasonable michigan fan? do you think lloyd carr should be canned?

are you a reasonable michigan fan? do you think lloyd carr should be canned?

Here's what I think about Lloyd Carr.

#1 - It could be a lot worse. He has won a national championship, something that no Michigan coach had done since Oosterbaan. He brings in great recruiting classes (can you imagine how rough his teams would be if he couldn't recruit? Yikes!) He has won practically 77% of the games he has coached. I would be ungrateful if I hated on that too much.

#2 - In spite of all I just said, it truly could be better. Carr is too afraid to change the system that Bo established and still watches over to this day. Carr has changed some, giving more playing time to true freshmen than he ever used to, but he hasn't changed nearly enough. On top of that, while he recruits very well, he isn't a closer in games or recruiting. Michigan is in the top 5 for 80% of the recruits across the country it seems, and yet they only get one or two 5 star guys each year, losing recruits to warm weather schools (the FL 3, USC or LSU), Notre Dame, Tennessee or Ohio State in most cases. They've been losing guys to Purdue, Iowa and Penn State in recent years as well. Lloyd always blows a game or two that the other team has no business winning. Relying too much on FG's early, draw plays on 3rd and long, unimaginative plays across the board, and always having sloppy tackling in spite of having talented defenders.

So that was the good and the bad. The thought of firing Carr both excites me and worries me. I know where the program stands for the most part. A coaching change could make the program stronger - but that's not exactly easy. It could keep it status quo, in which case, what's the point? Or, it could make it worse. I know State didn't have any choice with Saban, but they were a program on the rise. Losing him hurt them in a way they still haven't recovered from. I would hate to see 7-5 be a sign of much worse before it got better. As Michigan fans we've been spoiled. I'm 30 years old. That means there hasn't been a season in my lifetime in which Michigan didn't go to a bowl game. I don't want to ever see a season where Michigan doesn't go to a bowl game. I guess the question is, if Lloyd goes, who comes in? Can the new guy escape the shadow of Bo and 3 yards in a cloud of dust? Is Michigan simply Michigan, and they'll always draw top recruits and win 6-10 games, regardless of who is coaching? I really don't know. I would LOVE to see them do better. I would hate to see them do worse. I recognize that Lloyd has many flaws and that of his 23 losses, there are probably 15 of them you can place squarely on his decisions. Of his 76 wins, many happened IN SPITE of Lloyd, but you can't give him all the blame and not give him all the credit.

Bottom line - I'm nervous. I don't think I really have to be, since I strongly doubt the school would fire Lloyd, so I don't need to think about it. But if they can find a top 10 coach (which they most likely won't since the next coach almost certainly has to have some Michigan ties), then make the move now, before this team slides any more.

well put and I'm glad to see some thought put into the situation, rather than what i keep reading from a lot of hacks from newspapers or websites.

many programs have made the jump to utilize their athletic recruits, and to exploit that.

I do not see anybody that could step in to take his place and not miss a beat. Any coaching change would probably be a downgrade. Lloyd Carr would get a job somewhere else and he'd do a great job.

tough situation. it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

you can always call gary moller

Llyod does not need to go, but he needs to change D-Coordiantors and his S&C guy.

Lloyd has it harder to recruit then any other school you mentioned but ND.

PSU while has been down, still has great tradition and losing recruits from their home state is always going to be a problem for Michigan.

Michigan has to recruit all over. USC is in another zone. They have a great place to recruit, are warm weather and are winning. Even if Michigan was winning like USC they still have a crappy state to recruit in and are not a warm weather school.

Top kids that Michigan recruits from the south stay south 95% of the time (top kids not kids that go to MSU).

You also got to remember the excitement factor of new coaches i.e. Weis and Meyer. Meyer has it easier just because of being in Florida. Weis has ESPN over his knob and it would have taken an absolutely horrible effort to not have a top 5 class, but saying that

Michigan went against ND for Brown, Walls and Young. Right now they are 1-1 and Young is still too close to call right now, but going head2head and winning 1 and losing 1 or 2 is not that bad considering the press that Weis has gotten.

Michigan loses 1 player off each side of the ball Avant and Watson (pending the decisions of Woodley and Long, but Long comes back because the OT position is really strong this year). Avant is great, but Michigan has some very, very good WR and some that didnt even really get to play Adrian Arrington and Savoy not to even mention Doug Dutch (if he stays). Branch is a monster and is everything that Watson is but has a motor to outdue Watson.

Only thing that hurts next year is the schedule, if not for that I would except a 10-11 win season.

PSU will be down next year, OSU could be down depending on if a couple of key guys go pro or not. The rest will be about the same. I like Michigans chances next year. If they bring the aggressive D that they displayed in the bowl game.

Sears is going to be scary good CB. Cannot believe some of the shit other players are saying about him...legit 6 foot 200 pounds with speed and great hip movement.


Art

I have never been one to make excuses for our football team.

It is what it is. This year was an absolute tank job. I did get really excited in the beginning about the season and the great start. Truth is, the program isnt heading in the right direction. JLS has GOT to recruit some real players and not just fill in the holes with JUCOs. Case in point, our secondary was atrocious all season. We had a talented RB (Hayes) on defense?? What the hell.


I just find it comical that UM always finds an excuse for every loss. And the majority of the time its the officials. Maybe if Floyd wouldnt ride them so hard they could actually do their jobs.

That's what Michigan fans do and their coach is the same. Maybe I'm biased, but I hear other schools say the same thing all the time. If Michigan loses, it has nothing to with them. All the blaim can be put on officials, extended bus sitting, time keepers (ya didn't hear them talking 1 second after that PSU job did ya?), crowned field, etc. etc. etc.

It's honestly just expected now.

That's the only game I can blame the officials for (the bowl game). They did get jobbed. The other games were just a shining example of their inconsistancy. They can light it up one game, and can't stop a 3rd down draw play another to close out a game. They lost those games, no doubt about it. Any true football fan (u of M or not) would admit that Michigan plain lost those games, and any true football fan would also admit that they got totally jobbed in the bowl game. Not that a win would have made it a good season, because it still wasn't.

That was a very well ran game by the stripes. I hope that the sun belt conference continues to maintain that level of excellence.

Signed, MSU Players and Coaches sitting at home.