Truly a game for the ages. While Bosh was out there playing for himself Darko was on the sidelines cheering his team on and they won because of it. My God Bosh is such a ball hogging loser. He doesn't have one tenth the talent Darko has. It's just amazing. Did you see how quickly Darko got up the floor tonight? WOW. Just wow. From free throw line to free throw lines he was only about 3 seconds slower than Dwyane Wade. ONLY THREE SECONDS! That is God like for a 7 footer. His dunk was unreal too. With the fire that he slammed the ball down I was amazed the backboard didn't shatter. In fact I venture to say that backboard is a xenophobic racist just like Flip and LB. It was built by Euro hating Bushbots. They all hate ferners you know? Just another case of some bastard holding down one of the greatest centers of all-time.

LMAO! The funny thing is, at first I thought it was really zeeb.

Tonight was a night when I watched NBA Coast to Coast or NBA TV and I wanted to rip my hair out of my head over the whole Darko issue. Every day that passes makes the pick look worse and worse. Here is a look at what the class of 2003 did tonight or the last night they played if they didn't play today...

1. Lebron-38pts 10rbs 8 ast
2. Darko-2pts 1 blk
3. Melo- 45 rbs 8 rbs
4. Bosh- 37 pts, 11rbs 5 ast and 3 blks
5. Wade- 35pts 7 ast 3rbs
6.Kaman-14 pts 11rbs 4 blks
7. Hnirich- Yesterday 14pts 8 asts 4 rbs
8. Ford- Left injured after 4 min 2pts 1 ast
9. Sweetney- Yesterday 14 pts 8 rbs
10. Hayes DNP out for season
11. Pietrus- DNP Injured
12. Collison-Yesterday 16pts 11rbs 2 asts 1 blk
13. Banks-Yesterday 12 pts 4ast 3rbs
14. Ridnour-Yesterday 3 asts
15. Gaines- 0's
16. Bell-Out of NBA
17. Zarko-0's
18. West-Friday 27 pts 18rbs 1ast
19. Pavolic-DNP Injured
20. Dantay Jones-Yesterday 8pts 2blks 1rb
21. Diaw- Yesterday 31pts 11rbs 5 ast
22. Planinic -DNP CD
23. Outlaw-Yesterday6pts 2rbs 1blk 1stl
24. Cook- 8pts 7rbs 1stl
25. Delfino-2pts 1 ast
26. Ebi - Out of NBA
27. Perkins-Yesterday3blks 3rbs 1stl
28. Barbosa-DNP Injured
29. Josh Howard-Yesterday12pts 10rbs 4stls 1ast

38. Steve Blake- 12pts 6asts 2rbs
42. Zaza-8pts 13rbs 1stl
45. Bonner- 5pts 2 ast
47. Mo Williams- 24 pts 2 ast 1stl
51. Korver-18 pts 8rbs 3blks

It's sad that the deepest draft in recent years has yet to improve the Pistons I mean we all know the draft is a crapshoot but seems like most teams managed to do better than the Pistons. Hell it seems like Joe would have drafted better if he drew the names out of hat at random.

1. Lebron-38pts 10rbs 8 ast
2. Darko-2pts 1 blk
3. Melo- 45 rbs 8 rbs
4. Bosh- 37 pts, 11rbs 5 ast and 3 blks
5. Wade- 35pts 7 ast 3rbs
6.Kaman-14 pts 11rbs 4 blks
7. Hnirich- Yesterday 14pts 8 asts 4 rbs
8. Ford- Left injured after 4 min 2pts 1 ast
9. Sweetney- Yesterday 14 pts 8 rbs
10. Hayes DNP out for season

Holy shit. I am guessing thats the record for most rebounds since Wilt.

LOL@Darko

After looking at JS's list did anyone else feel sick?

After looking at JS's list did anyone else feel sick?

While underlying most of the time, it's pretty much a constant sick feeling.

After looking at JS's list did anyone else feel sick?

The top only made me queezy. I didn't get sick until the bottom where Diaw was putting up 31 and 11.

Uhg.

Maybe I'm a bad person for saying this... but who gives a shit? Darko sucks. Stop talking about him. The Pistons are 23-3. We don't need something to bitch about. Joe fucked up on a draft pick. It doesn't matter to me, because we have a ring and another on the way.

Maybe I'm a bad person for saying this... but who gives a shit? Darko sucks. Stop talking about him. The Pistons are 23-3. We don't need something to bitch about. Joe fucked up on a draft pick. It doesn't matter to me, because we have a ring and another on the way.

If he's a waste of space then why have him just sit there? Why not get his ass out of here and get a bench contributor that can help rest our starters some and seal the deal when the playoffs arise?

It's a completely relevant discussion, IMO.

I understand that he is a waste of space, but every team has an endpiece to their bench. We can dream all the time that we should trade for a solid bench player, but it hasn't happened in the last two years, and the window for Darko being traded for something decent is almost closed. And what can we add to the bench? Lets be honest: the championship is going to come through our starters.

All I'm saying is that the Pistons are currently 23-3. They are going to go through a lull sometime this season. We should be enjoying this ride, not complaining about the piece of shit we have sitting on the end of the bench.

I understand that he is a waste of space, but every team has an endpiece to their bench. We can dream all the time that we should trade for a solid bench player, but it hasn't happened in the last two years, and the window for Darko being traded for something decent is almost closed. And what can we add to the bench? Lets be honest: the championship is going to come through our starters.


What teams used a #2 pick to get that 13th man? None, except us. The difference between Darko and let's say Ronald Dupree is that Darko can actually fetch you a good pick/player in return. Probably a 6th man at least. That's why it's a big deal. If we had Dupree and not Darko we wouldn't be talking about it because nobody's trading us more than a waste of space for him.

Everyone is enjoying our start, but that doesn't mean it's %100 going to last. All it takes is one injury and we don't win it all. Wouldn't you like to have someone that isn't a waste of space in case that happens?

I dont want to argue the Darko thing, because I am really starting to dislike him, but I always think back to Jermaine O'Neal who took what 5 years to get it started when he was 23?

Darko is still a baby in age and basketball exp. Do I think he can be something, probably not. He doesnt have the heart or motor to be great. I just am not totally ready to give up him yet. We have no need for him.

I would rather give Maxwell more minutes, because I think he could do a good job if given the chance or let Delfino play more. I think we got enough ofa bench, but I dont really care for Flips sub pattern, but it is better than LBs was.


Art

After looking at JS's list did anyone else feel sick?
nope

There was a time when I used to feel sick watching Darko, but now he's basically a dancing poodle and he's just funny to me.

Reason not to feel "sick" about it: compare the success of those teamssince that draft. Nuff said. What is it about darko that makes people overlook the big picture of the team's success? Kwitcherbitchin and enjoy the ride.

Reason not to feel "sick" about it: compare the success of those teamssince that draft. Nuff said. What is it about darko that makes people overlook the big picture of the team's success? Kwitcherbitchin and enjoy the ride.
nothing else to complain about. but i agree to take it to such an extreme is really stretching it. i've read posts about how we are doomed for the next decade based on darko. :roll:

I dont want to argue the Darko thing, because I am really starting to dislike him, but I always think back to Jermaine O'Neal who took what 5 years to get it started when he was 23?

Darko is still a baby in age and basketball exp. Do I think he can be something, probably not. He doesnt have the heart or motor to be great. I just am not totally ready to give up him yet. We have no need for him.


I don't know what JO's desire was like at that age (don't really remember seeing him play at all in Portland), but it couldn't be like Darko. JO is such a competator these days that I have a hard time believing he sulked and played lazy like Darko is doing right now. I've seen enough of Darko's talent to think he's good enough to be a solid pro some day. Unfortunately, I've also seen enough of his additude to know it won't happen here (unless he changes his tune). Unless he changes he approach, he's a lost cause here. Sure, JO panned out, but was he a crybaby like Darko is?

i've read posts about how we are doomed for the next decade based on darko. :roll:

nothing quite like being overly melodramatic

it's simple, move the dead weight, improve the team, win another ring

don't make it into more than it has to be

^^My thoughts exactly. Well put.

i've read posts about how we are doomed for the next decade based on darko. :roll:

nothing quite like being overly melodramatic

it's simple, move the dead weight, improve the team, win another ring

don't make it into more than it has to be
thats melodramatic and you cant even see it. you rest our ring on darko.

how about you not trying to make this out to be something more than what it is for out 10th-12th guy on the bench.

you're reasoning on this isnt all that great to me. So if we keep Darko it hampers our shot to win a title? funny :roll:

Oh, we can win a ring without dealing him, but we can almost assure ourselves one with another solid bench contributor to back up Tay.

When you can convert your 12th man that averages a DNPCD into a solid 6th man that actually contributes, why not?

Oh, we can win a ring without dealing him, but we can almost assure ourselves one with another solid bench contributor to back up Tay.

When you can convert your 12th man that averages a DNPCD into a solid 6th man that actually contributes, why not?
like it or not evans and delfino are going to be the guys we go to. they are both improving and they both are gonna need time to start peaking. having the best starters in the league along with two players on the bench familar with playing with them out there helps.

theres no reason to be impatient with them. of course if we let you tell it, certain doom is coming from trusting the improvement of those two and thus darko will somehow be at fault in the end :roll: ..funny again

But they are both SGs and shouldn't be backing up Tay.

Factor in that said 12th man is making a bunch of jack, isn't happy, isn't playing and will most likely leave without us getting anything in return, and this is approaching no-brainer territory.



of course if we let you tell it, certain doom is coming from trusting the improvement of those two and thus darko will somehow be at fault in the end

logic > melodramatics

So you're saying we have to go out there and get someone that is better than Evans, so he can sit the bench. The fact is that Tay and Rip will not sit on the bench together - one of them will always be in. So getting another bench player would get Evans out of the rotation. We don't really need another back-up big man with Dice and Davis, I would love to trade Darko for a backup point guard along with Arroyo. There's just nothing available.

So guess what? We're stuck with a #2 pick that's a 13th man. It's over with, the Pistons worked around it. That would ruin a lot of teams. At least he's not a dead #2 pick like Len Bias.

Trade Darko? You are all INSANE! He is by far and a way the most talented player on the roster. What we need to do is trade Dice, Sheed or Ben to clear PT for Darko. Either that or fire Flip and bring in a non-xenophobic, non-racist coach that will play Darko the 40 minutes a night he DESERVES.

But they are both SGs and shouldn't be backing up Tay.

Factor in that said 12th man is making a bunch of jack, isn't happy, isn't playing and will most likely leave without us getting anything in return, and this is approaching no-brainer territory.



of course if we let you tell it, certain doom is coming from trusting the improvement of those two and thus darko will somehow be at fault in the end

logic > melodramatics
your logic goes one step further to complain as if this is going to kill us. we won the title with two point guards coming off the bench to make up for lack of SG talent.

im not too distraught about having two SG's to back up tay, honestly evans isnt a true sg anyways. closer to SF in his style of play.

once again its logic to express concern, its ridiculous to scream out how sick you are too see darko not play or not do good. to whine up a muthafucking storm til you crap your diapers about Darko costing us a title. its odd that when i bring that up you run to the "well im not saying all that" type excuses and swear that you are only being logical. :roll:

thats bs, you whine about him just as much as every other whiner who needs something to complain about at this point. like i said i totally agree that trading him could bring a valuable player. but im not gonna lose a bit of sweat or sleep if we dont trade him. im also NOT gonna feel sick everytime carmello scores 45 ballhogging his way to a max contract and bitching anytime he doesnt get his minutes and shots.

maybe you are mad that we dont have a superstar young guy tearing things up as opposed to the balanced set we have now competing for titles. i've watched us through the grant hill/jerry stackhouse years and those teams couldnt compete with us now and i still feel hill was one of the top 3 players in his prime with us along with stackhouse being a top 10 scorer.

either way im done with the millionth darko debate we've had this season. and dont call me millicic. im no fan of that fucktard. unlike you i care more about the team and dont seem doom coming for the pistons title hopes if darko doesnt get traded.

Trade Darko? You are all INSANE! He is by far and a way the most talented player on the roster. What we need to do is trade Dice, Sheed or Ben to clear PT for Darko. Either that or fire Flip and bring in a non-xenophobic, non-racist coach that will play Darko the 40 minutes a night he DESERVES.
zeeb is joking, but sometimes i get scared that he means it. :?

im not for the darkmeister. i actually dont care much for him. just another thing to complain about for those addicted to misery and drama(aka lions fans :D ).

shoot i still remember the posts i read about how lindsay hunter will make carlos arroyo tradable when lindsay doesnt even play true point and will probally plAy SG when he gets back. everybody has to gripe about something i guess.

I don't know where you are getting all of these "theories" and wild statements Gutz. I really don't.

I just don't understand the complacency of some of you guys.

"We're really good, so I'm happy with that".

Why wouldn't you want to be better if you could?

I just don't get it.

unreal

I just don't get it.
oddly enough thats what i think when darko becomes the most important trade need in pistons history by some fan accounts.

Darko is much more that the "human victory cigar". He's a perfect example of the the fact that even when Joe Dumars fucks up, we still get enough production from his good decisions to have the best record in basketball.

Now THAT'S a basketball genius.

I don't know where you are getting all of these "theories" and wild statements Gutz. I really don't..


After looking at JS's list did anyone else feel sick?

While underlying most of the time, it's pretty much a constant sick feeling.

unfortunately the death of the temp site takes away the load of other deep pain expressed over the drakmeister. :?

Darko is much more that the "human victory cigar". He's a perfect example of the the fact that even when Joe Dumars fucks up, we still get enough production from his good decisions to have the best record in basketball.

Now THAT'S a basketball genius.
you could get killed for seeing that much positive spin on this subject :shock:

So you're saying we have to go out there and get someone that is better than Evans, so he can sit the bench. The fact is that Tay and Rip will not sit on the bench together - one of them will always be in. So getting another bench player would get Evans out of the rotation. We don't really need another back-up big man with Dice and Davis, I would love to trade Darko for a backup point guard along with Arroyo. There's just nothing available.

So guess what? We're stuck with a #2 pick that's a 13th man. It's over with, the Pistons worked around it. That would ruin a lot of teams. At least he's not a dead #2 pick like Len Bias.

Did you ever consider that's because they have to? If we still had say Mike James, Corliss and Jon Barry, at some point in time they would sit on the bench at the same time. Right now, we don't have a strong enough bench for that to happen, but perhaps if we lost our 11th man and got al harrington,(only an example) maybe tay and rip could sit?

I don't understand why the idea of trading Darko, even as a thirteenth man, is somehow verboten. If it were any other player, we'd say, Go ahead and trade the guy if it can improve the team, even if only slightly.

Seems to me that trading Darko would accomplish this, so I don't understand the reluctance. Under the 13th man rationalle, which I'm not a fan of, there would almost never be justification for trading a guy.

This has nothing to do with Carmello Anthony.

If it can make us better, trade the guy; if it can't, then don't.

I don't understand why the idea of trading Darko, even as a thirteenth man, is somehow verboten. .
oh no its not. the idea that we are screwed if we dont is what i take issue with. the idea that its a need that has to be done to the point of some suggesting we just get something quick and run is the problem.

I don't understand why the idea of trading Darko, even as a thirteenth man, is somehow verboten. .
oh no its not. the idea that we are screwed if we dont is what i take issue with.

I definitely don't think we're screwed if we keep him. But I also think that's kind of a crummy standard. The only standard that matters, to me at least, is whether or not it makes our team better, even if only slightly.

I don't understand why the idea of trading Darko, even as a thirteenth man, is somehow verboten. .
oh no its not. the idea that we are screwed if we dont is what i take issue with.

I definitely don't think we're screwed if we keep him. But I also think that's kind of a crummy standard. The only standard that matters, to me at least, is whether or not it makes our team better, even if only slightly.
but i even dispute that with some of the trade requests. its at the point where we got harpring threads(im sorry but if you get giddy for harpring, then you have issues or have only seen him play in orlando). and im still fine with that.

but if its treated as a needed thing and people are getting sick about seeing darko not play or not look good. then it starts to get silly. you wanna explore personal trade ideas that wont happen, enjoy. but atleast try not to act too dramatic about it. and i only direct that at the ones who make a big deal out of it. though im sure none of them will admit it. :roll:

oddly enough thats what i think when darko becomes the most important trade need in pistons history by some fan accounts.

You're on a roll now. Keep 'em coming.




it's simple, move the dead weight, improve the team, win another ring

don't make it into more than it has to be

Gutz, read. Repeat.^^

Realistic, dead on, as usual.

I'm not getting into this again.

I don't understand why the idea of trading Darko, even as a thirteenth man, is somehow verboten. .
oh no its not. the idea that we are screwed if we dont is what i take issue with. the idea that its a need that has to be done to the point of some suggesting we just get something quick and run is the problem.

As opposed to getting nothing? That's what is going to happen you know. We've only got one more year of Darko for sure, then he could be gone. It doesn't look like he's going to "get it" this year and try hard, so next year has to be it. What have you seen to make you think he'll suddenly realize that he needs to work for his PT? I haven't seen anything to suggest that, so I would bet on him not doing that.

As for the Evans part, it wouldn't bench Evans. It would bench Tay more. The problem isn't that we can't find Evans and Delfino time, it's that they can't play defense good enough to spell Tay very long. RIP can't guard Tmac, Kobe, Pierce, etc so Tay has to play as many minutes as the other team's stars. Evans and Delfino can't guard them. So, the only solution is to get someone who can. That way Tay doesn't play 40 minutes a game and wear down in the playoffs again. You can't tell me these minutes are not going to take a toll on Prince.

it's simple, move the dead weight, improve the team, win another ring

don't make it into more than it has to be

[/quote]
i only find it odd that you posted that after i called out the melodramatic darko hippies. like i said i fully expect no one to admit their acts of drama. but i know what i read on the other site. and i dont see people getting sick in the stomach over nothing. :wink:

so you keep em rolling all you want yourself.

I'm not getting into this again.

Why not?

You are the best basketball mind here (IMO), don't deprive us of your opinion.

If your comments help one person understand what the situation is, then it will be worth it.

This is the same thing that you got upset with diddy for a while back (not posting well thought out replies based on the presence of those that just don't get it)

dont force pharoah into it. i think its great that he's gotten tired of any darko related disputes. thats a good sign.

dont force pharoah into it. i think its great that he's gotten tired of any darko related disputes. thats a good sign.

Why are you trying to suppress his opinion?

Could it be that it's because you know that these guys (Chris, realistic, moi) are hitting you in the head with common sense and you are trying to fight it off the best that you can?

So transparent.

If he has, in fact "gotten tired of any darko related disputes" I'll bet it's because of guys like you that just aren't seeing the reality of the Darko situation.

Pharoah is likely just thinking like I did before leaving the TOS. What's the point of debating with someone who is blinded to the facts? Too bad for Pharoah we don't have his old posts or he could simply quote himself and save the typing.

Glenn

Just for you I'll try again but not now.

It's 3:15am and if I start going into detail it'll be 5am before I go to bed.

I'm back at work tomorrow and need to sleep.

BTW, I didn't know you thought so highly of me.

Thanks for the kind words.

Glenn

Just for you I'll try again but not now.

It's 3:15am and if I start going into detail it'll be 5am before I go to bed.

I'm back at work tomorrow and need to sleep.

BTW, I didn't know you thought so highly of me.

Thanks for the kind words.

I feel like this has been a special moment.

I'll look forward to reading your comments as your time permits.

We can only hope that others will as well.

So you're saying we have to go out there and get someone that is better than Evans, so he can sit the bench. The fact is that Tay and Rip will not sit on the bench together - one of them will always be in. So getting another bench player would get Evans out of the rotation. We don't really need another back-up big man with Dice and Davis, I would love to trade Darko for a backup point guard along with Arroyo. There's just nothing available.

So guess what? We're stuck with a #2 pick that's a 13th man. It's over with, the Pistons worked around it. That would ruin a lot of teams. At least he's not a dead #2 pick like Len Bias.

Did you ever consider that's because they have to? If we still had say Mike James, Corliss and Jon Barry, at some point in time they would sit on the bench at the same time. Right now, we don't have a strong enough bench for that to happen, but perhaps if we lost our 11th man and got al harrington,(only an example) maybe tay and rip could sit?

We have Delfino, who is serviceable when he is in. We have Evans, who is really starting to come on. What bench player could they get for Darko that would be as good as them? The problem isn't the fact our bench players aren't good enough, it's that the starting 5 is so great. Anyone you put in there will lack the same production that Rip and/or Tay will have. We're set with a standard that the starting 5 brings.

My point has been this all along. Darko is sucks but might be okay on another team, we've established that. He doesn't work hard. Okay. He's looks lost. Fine. He probably slicks back his pubes to match his head Pat Riley style. Great. But the Pistons are 23-3 and we're still debating about Darko? Can't we find something better to do with the "Greatest Pistons Minds on the Planet?"

^re-read my post on Evans/Delfino please. It's not that they aren't productive, it's that they can't guard the opponants best scorer. Only Tay can. The drop off that Flip is concerned with is not their scoring. Evans and Delfino can do that (not to mention Dice and any starter in there). It's that he can't take Tay off the floor because Tmac or whoever will go off on them.

BigMo,

Love your work, and value your opinion.

It's my experience from being on Pistons messageboards for more years that I would care to mention that posters have always looked for/searched out ways to improve the team, no matter what the win/loss record is.

I think it's sort of the nature of the beast.

I mean, who wants to break down why a certain play was successful? How the pick and roll has been looking really good lately? How great Flip's hair looked? (okay, we'll do that last one)

Let me remind you that I've been a Darko backer for most of his tenure too. I only jumped off his bandwagon when I saw the change of senery (Flip replacing LB), some decent but scattered PT, and the way Darko responded to it. I just came to the opinion this year that he's simply not going to get it here, period.

And since he's soon to be FA, will demand more money than we are willing to pay, is a former #2 overall pick, a 7 footer with skills, and still an attractive player to any rebuilding team, why not trade him now? I have very little faith he'll ever pan out here (maybe %5 or less chance). And while I like our chances of winning it all, I also liked them last year. I'm sure Miami liked their chances last year too, and LA the year before that. Just because you are the favorite (or one of them) doesn't mean an injury, a hot streak by an opponent, bad luck, etc can't derail you're title hopes. If Darko isn't going to help, possibly ever, why not make sure we don't get derailed?

Actually fuck it:

It's financial, it's due to past events, it's in the team's best interests, it's for the sake of Darko's career, it's for all of us:

Get him off the fucking team.

Financial:

Chris has already stated that Darko will have next season to show Joe what he's made of. After that he's a restricted free agent.

Now, you can bet your last dollar in Vegas that Darko is gonna get a nice offer from some team.

And we'll let him walk.

Extensions for Ben, Tay and Billups will push our payroll through the roof and we're not gonna pony up a starting salary of $14mil for a guy that doesn't get off the bench.

Yeah, it's $14 because we're over the tax and every cent you give him costs double.

So an offer that starts at $7mil = $14 to us

Past Events:

NBA Finals - Game 7. LB puts Prince on Duncan, who had played most of those 7 games looking like a lost child.

MVP my ass - he was shaken. But instead of turning to Darko (or even Elden) LB had to use Tay and Duncan lit him up, taking the Spurs to the finish line.

Now, this is LB's fault (and we've been there and done that too a thousand times) but at least half the blame lies with Darko.

He refused to hustle in garbage time. He refused to "play the right way" for LB. Therefore LB refused to play Milicic and it fucking cost us.

Team's Best Interests:

We all know Tay (and Rip) plays too many minutes.

Why? Because he's the only fucker we've got that can lock down super wing scorers.

If we traded Darko for a defensive SF (not Harpring, think Ruben Patterson!) then we'd be a better team.

Can we win without this defensive SF off the bench?

Sure, but it's a lot tougher and why make it harder than it needs to be?

If you can improve your team you do it IMO

Saving Darko:

He'll never amount to anything here.

Even if by some miracle we keep him here beyond the 2007 off-season he won't develop because he won't get the minutes.

The only way he'll get serious playing time is if Ben, Sheed and Dice are gone. If that happens we turn into a perimeter team (well more of a perimeter team) and Darko will be blamed for not becoming the "Franchise C" he was supposed to be.

Because you can be sure without our stellar PF/C rotation we're not that great.

Nice legacy for the man.

If we deal him he could get a fresh start and actually get playing time, which would see his game improve quickly.

I want the best for him and this team.

And that means trading his ass.

Darko's Exit Helps All of Us:

With him gone I can avoid going through this shit every month, trying to get all sane people to realise that yes, babysitting this motherfucker is costing us every day.

Time wasted by coaches, salary spent and luxury tax paid on a guy that can't contribute and bullshit spoken to the press by Billups, Ben and everyone else is just a waste of time, effort and energy.

Look at that - he just cost me 30 fucking minutes!

Get him out of here and get someone that can play.

Imagine if we traded for Ruben Patterson today!

I'd rather have us wonder if Sheed and Ruben are gonna go Artest on New Year's Eve than wonder if Darko is gonna break a fucking sweat in his 2 minutes of playing time.

And I see I wasted my time because Chris is on fire.

Still, it was good to get that out.

BTW, if Ruben for Darko doesn't work under the cap Dixon/Ruben for Arroyo/Darko does (I think)

Well done. Now I suggest going to sleep before someone still doesn't understand it.

BigMo,

Love your work, and value your opinion.

It's my experience from being on Pistons messageboards for more years that I would care to mention that posters have always looked for/searched out ways to improve the team, no matter what the win/loss record is.

I think it's sort of the nature of the beast.

I mean, who wants to break down why a certain play was successful? How the pick and roll has been looking really good lately? How great Flip's hair looked? (okay, we'll do that last one)

I can understand that we want to find a way to get us better. But let's be productive then. I know there was a Darko trades thread in WTF, maybe it's time to get that back up. I just get sick (and this isn't an attack on you) of people constantly saying "Darko sucks!" and "Joe blew the Darko pick!" I think we all know that.

Maybe I just hit my breaking point today.

And Chris, I understand the lack of defense, but I'm going to disagree with you somewhat. First, there is no player in the NBA that we could get that could do the same defensive job as Tay. It just won't happen. So if we have to play a team with a player of T-Mac's or Kobe's stature, it will be on Tay's tiny shoulders the whole game. Second, I like Mo defensively. He did a great job on Arenas, but a not-so-good job on others. Maybe it's a matter of motivation. I don't know.

But yes Delfino blows defensively.

Truly a thing of beauty, Master P.

I will save this page and post a link to it as needed.

Maybe we should copy, repost as a new thread, sticky and lock that sumbitch.

BigMo,

Love your work, and value your opinion.

It's my experience from being on Pistons messageboards for more years that I would care to mention that posters have always looked for/searched out ways to improve the team, no matter what the win/loss record is.

I think it's sort of the nature of the beast.

I mean, who wants to break down why a certain play was successful? How the pick and roll has been looking really good lately? How great Flip's hair looked? (okay, we'll do that last one)

And Chris, I understand the lack of defense, but I'm going to disagree with you somewhat. First, there is no player in the NBA that we could get that could do the same defensive job as Tay. It just won't happen. So if we have to play a team with a player of T-Mac's or Kobe's stature, it will be on Tay's tiny shoulders the whole game. Second, I like Mo defensively. He did a great job on Arenas, but a not-so-good job on others. Maybe it's a matter of motivation. I don't know.


Same as Tay, no. Pretty close, yes. There are guys out there who would be good enough to spell Tay for 15 minutes a night. Guys like Battier, Harpring, and even Patterson as Pharoah suggested can guard him for 15 minutes and still be productive offensively. Some will cost more than others to trade for. But there are guys out there. Would I trade Darko for Patterson? No, but only because we could have Patterson for less. If it brought Battier I would do it in a heartbeat. Same goes for Harpring.

And Mo does do a decent job, but he's too small to match up with the 6'8"+ SF's of the NBA these days. It's just the way it is.

And I don't think Darko sucks. He just doesn't fit in, and I think he never will. Mooch isn't a terrible coach, but his offense sure sucked here. It's just a bad fit, period. Darko needs a shitty team that he can learn and grow on. He needs what Al Harrington needed when he left Indi. A chance to contribute a lot and mature as a player. He'll never get that here.

Well done. Now I suggest going to sleep before someone still doesn't understand it.

Too true and I will.

As for MoTown's idea of being productive:

Best fucking post in this thread.

Someone make a thread with every single Darko trade you can think of but:

Only send him to teams where he can get playing time.

BTW, IMO Mo Evans wasn't brought here to lock down the SF scorers. He's here to kill Wade and those kind of guys.

Glenn: save the link - I have a feeling I'll need to copy and paste this in January.

I agree. I think Evans was brought here to keep the opponents playing defense the entire game. He was brought here to make other teams pay for doubling our other players. He was brought here to be physical with 2 guards and help wear on them. I've been very pleased with Evans. I just don't think he's big enough to match up with elite SF's.

He's not, which is why we should deal Darko for that SF.

I'll take Ruben for Darko straight up.

I'll take Dixon/Ruben for Darko/Arroyo

Our system doesn't rely on traditional PG's anyway

^I made a new thread of trades for him. And I stuck to bad teams (aside from Memphis who needs a center still).

I know some of you think this is a useless topic because of the nature of the team since 03. However I think the topic that is pointless is debating Darko's potential at this point or whether he is a bust. Question that deserves to be asked and debated is why Darko is being given chance after chance and not been traded by now. I mean tell me how he fits in with the rest of the team? Darko does not have "the Piston DNA" Joe always talks about.

He is not a bad boy like Sheed, he is not a castaway like Ben, Rip, Chauncey ,Dice or even Arroyo. He was not a talent that was overlooked in the draft like Memo, or Prince. He is nothing more than a guy who was handed millions of dollars he didn't earn based on potential he can't show because he is too busy pouting or acting like a bitch instead of proving himself.

After what 1 summer league game we all saw that Pistons DNA in Maxiell and knew he was a right fit. So why is Joe keeping a guy who doesn't fit in or get it? Why should our winning be an excuse to ignore a glaring problem. Sure maybe we aren't going to get #2 pick talent in return back but hell right now I'd be happy with a vet who knows how good he would have it in Detroit on this team with any role.

Last night I was watching NBA coast to coast and they made a great point that if Detroit held on to the lead in the 4th qtr of game 7. They wouldn't just be talking about a team with a shot at 70 wins right now, they be talking about one of the greatest teams ever. When I think about that it makes me sick that we didn't have enough depth to put up a better fight in game 7 for that you have to look at Darko to some degree.

The only reason Sucko is still around is because Dumars is trying to save face. He knows if he deal the remote car starter now people will point at him and laugh for what he gets in return. Nevicic is garbage. He's a worthless lump of shit. He has no heart, no brains and no balls. Nobody wants him. Nobody wants him bad enough to give up anything good for him. Megabust showed his true colors when Flip tried to play him at the start of the season. Saunders went out of his way to GIVE Darko PT and Chucko responded by being a lazy stupid bitch out of the court. He doesn't belong in the NBA. With that stash and that greeeeezy hair he should be selling used cars. And he will be once his rookie contract is up. Fucking chump.

It took 5 pages, lol

That looks suspicious. Maybe a copy and paste job?

Must have that saved on his hard drive.

Diddy I have reported that post to Cow. I will not tolerate such foul language directed at the Lord and Savior of Piston basketball.

Diddy you would be surprised how many teams actually still call about Darko. Teams do want him but Joe has yet to pull the trigger, perhas for the very reason of saving face you mentioned .I know that people will say that isn't Joe style because look he has said he made mistakes in drafting White and Cleaves. However it's not like the guys drafted after White (Jefferson, Johnson Murphy to name a few) or after Cleaves (Hedo, Mo pete, Mason or Richardson) are even in the same class of making a bad pick as what Joe did when he passed on Melo, Bosh, or Wade for Darko.

Diddy you would be surprised how many teams actually still call about Darko.

How exactly do we know they're still calling?

My opinion on Darko?

He's a large, caucasion male.

Diddy you would be surprised how many teams actually still call about Darko.

How exactly do we know they're still calling?
very good point.

and zeeb who is cow?

JS has sources that have been mentioned before.

If you expect him to name names then that's foolish IMO. Just take his word for it.

It's not like he has a reason to lie. Why would he lie about something so obvious.

There are reports that Joe gets calls all the time. Who do you think they are calling about?

We are a championship contender right now. And no matter what Darko does (or doesn't), it's not going to change. We are at a point where anything Darko does while he is on the floor is a bonus but it's not required. It would help us but we are not dependent on his production. Now if we were in Indy's or NJ's shoes where Darko's production might mean the difference between going deep into the playoffs or being an early round exit, then I can understand trading Darko for some immediate help. But we are not in that position.

Now I am not against trading him. But I am against trading him where we are not getting anything in return that might help us in the future. That's the only thing I care about right now: the Future. We don't have a first rounder next year and we will be picking near the bottom for the next few years, therefore I would like to see us get something (be it a pick/rights to a player overseas/2nd & 3rd players) that will help us down the road.

We could trade Darko for Patterson/Harping/Mo Pete/Rose but as much as they might help us right now, in the long run we would be better off by holding on to Darko.

H1Man - you obviously didn't read the posts in this thread that deal with Darko's restricted free agency and our payroll situation at that time.

He isn't going to be a part of our future. He'll be gone and we'll get nothing in return.

I'd rather have Mo Pete and Mike James now and if we got the rights to Roko-Leni Ukic in the deal as well it solves our PG situation once Arroyo's deal expires.

H1Man - you obviously didn't read the posts in this thread that deal with Darko's restricted free agency and our payroll situation at that time.

He isn't going to be a part of our future. He'll be gone and we'll get nothing in return.

I'd rather have Mo Pete and Mike James now and if we got the rights to Roko-Leni Ukic in the deal as well it solves our PG situation once Arroyo's deal expires.

Chandler, Curry, Brown and Dalembert were all RFA's last year. I don't recall any of them getting many offers. Granted Curry's situation and the salary cap played a role but if even Darko were to get an offer, we could do a S&T.

As far as that Toronto trade you suggest, I would change it a bit and do it.

Carlos Arroyo + Carlos Delfino + Darko + 1st = Mo Pete + Mike James + rights to Roko Ukic + rights to Pape Sow or a 1st.

but if even Darko were to get an offer, we could do a S&T..
another good point.

Sign and trades are usually done because the team with cap space doesn't think they can sign the guy outright.

NY was over the cap.

Atlanta thought Phoenix might match on Johnson

Who thinks we'll match any offer on Darko?

You guys are reaching for reason not to trade him and I have to wonder why.

If this was any other 20 year old that had shown nothing in 2 and half years you guys would say cut his ass and forget about it.

But Darko gets the benefit of the doubt.

Why?

Bottom Line for me on Darko:

We should not cling to the hope that one day, somewhere, in some gym in North America all the training and all the practices will suddenly come together and the light bulb will go off above his head.

That's foolish and I guarantee none of the Darko supporters sit around in their everyday lives hoping that the woman they love is gonna walk up to them and ask them out.

They don't sit around hoping for a promotion, or hoping for a good score on a test.

They do the work required and perform the best they can in the hope things work out.

And yet every month we have this discussion about Darko and the same people bring the same shit until it goes away.

I don't understand it.

.

But Darko gets the benefit of the doubt.

Why?

because of joe dumars.

Dumars has said that Darko is the future of the organization and kept telling us to be patient and watch what happens.

nobody really wants to second guess joe.

JS has sources that have been mentioned before.

If you expect him to name names then that's foolish IMO. Just take his word for it.

It's not like he has a reason to lie. Why would he lie about something so obvious.

There are reports that Joe gets calls all the time. Who do you think they are calling about?

I never asked him to name names, and I never called him a liar. I'm simply unfamiliar with JS' long history of insider information. It's pretty straight forward if you read what I wrote.

Along the lines of what Pharoah has said Darko could end up being a cancerous cap issue.

Let's assume that we could do a S&T, that still means unless we get a big TE we would be taking on a huge cap number if somebody gives Darko a deal like Memo. At what number does Joe think it's too expensive to match or S&T? If that threshold is passed we could end up with nothing for him. I mean given what we have seen out of Darko and his lack of heart do you really want to match or sign Darko to a 5 year 55-60 million dollar deal?

Plus unless Joe could get a huge expiring deal and a pick, any extra salary may force Joe's hand in making a deal to dump a key contributor. Knowing that Chauncey is do a heavy raise that same offseason. Every day Chauncey's wallet is growing and growing after each game.

I doubt Darko is going to give us a home town discount. So IMO to be proactive now with moving Darko to get an MLE type deal helps keep this team together longer.

unlike memo darko hasnt shown squat to warrant even the dumbest team offering him that much. i think the negative darko people overate him more than anyone possibly.

still not getting it

he must have some kind of spell over you

amazing

Yeah Gutz, no team is gonna pony up a starting salary of $7mil for Darko.

He'll be a 21 year old 7 footer that has spent part or all of his 4 NBA seasons under the watchful eyes of the following:

Ben Wallace, Rasheed Wallace, Antonio McDyess, Elden Campbell, Dale Davis, Larry Brown, Flip Saunders and Joe Dumars.

Yeah, I wouldn't offer him shit either.

Boston gave Mark Blount $38.5mil over 6 years.

Chicago gave Tyson Chandler $64mil over 6 and he's known to have back issues and isn't exactly an offensive machine.

Denver gave Marcus Camby $57mil over 6 in 2004, despite knowing his injury history and knowing that with age comes a higher risk of re-injury.

Golden State gave Adonal Foyle $51.2mil over 6 in 2004 because he can block shots, rebounds and apparently loves to set picks.

Just this past off-season Stromile Swift got $30mil over 5 from Houston and people considered that a steal. Yeah, right.

The Immortal Kwame Brown got $25mil over 3 years from the Lakers, despite him rarely showing anything. Oh yeah - he had some nice games here and there but if anyone believes he's worth $8 mil per you're fucked in the head.

Milwaukee gave Dan Gadzuric $36mil over 6 years AFTER drafting Andrew Bogut. So, knowing that this shot blocking, rebounding king was likely to come off the bench every night they still spent an average of $6mil per on him!

I won't even discuss what the Knicks gave Eddy Curry ($60mil over 6) or Jerome James ($30mil over 5). Let's just agree Zeke is fucked in the head and be done with it.

Philly gave that 7 foot shot blocking/rebounding king Samuel Dalembert $58mil over 6. He's so fucking good and if he could shoot he might even be worth $10mil per. Or maybe not.

Our old friend Mehmet Okur got $50mil over 6 from Utah, despite his piss poor D and love for the long jump shot. Imagine if he could block shots like Darko!

To claim that "darko hasnt shown squat to warrant even the dumbest team offering him that much" is just fucking insane.

Teams overpay for big guys.

And koolaid:

Joe does get the benefit of the doubt in every other situation because he's proven himself capable of trading for players and signing free agents that kick ass.

This is the one time he's sitting on his hands when it's obvious to everyone that Darko will not pan out in Detroit.

.

But Darko gets the benefit of the doubt.

Why?

because of joe dumars.

Dumars has said that Darko is the future of the organization and kept telling us to be patient and watch what happens.

nobody really wants to second guess joe.

What do you expect? Do you want Joe to say Darko isn't giving good enough effort, is behind 3 vets that he'll never pass, and is getting outplayed by the rookie Maxiell every night? That would completely sabatoge his chances of moving Darko. Whether or not Joe intends to trade Darko, he HAS to continue to say he's the future here. Hyping him up is in his best interest. And since Darko barely plays, it's hard to argue he can't be a great player some day. I don't know whether Joe still believes Darko will get it here, but I do know he will continue to praise him until he's traded. I expect Joe to do that.

Yeah Gutz, no team is gonna pony up a starting salary of $7mil for Darko.

He'll be a 21 year old 7 footer that has spent part or all of his 4 NBA seasons under the watchful eyes of the following:

Ben Wallace, Rasheed Wallace, Antonio McDyess, Elden Campbell, Dale Davis, Larry Brown, Flip Saunders and Joe Dumars.

Yeah, I wouldn't offer him shit either.

Boston gave Mark Blount $38.5mil over 6 years.

Chicago gave Tyson Chandler $64mil over 6 and he's known to have back issues and isn't exactly an offensive machine.

Denver gave Marcus Camby $57mil over 6 in 2004, despite knowing his injury history and knowing that with age comes a higher risk of re-injury.

Golden State gave Adonal Foyle $51.2mil over 6 in 2004 because he can block shots, rebounds and apparently loves to set picks.

Just this past off-season Stromile Swift got $30mil over 5 from Houston and people considered that a steal. Yeah, right.

The Immortal Kwame Brown got $25mil over 3 years from the Lakers, despite him rarely showing anything. Oh yeah - he had some nice games here and there but if anyone believes he's worth $8 mil per you're fucked in the head.

Milwaukee gave Dan Gadzuric $36mil over 6 years AFTER drafting Andrew Bogut. So, knowing that this shot blocking, rebounding king was likely to come off the bench every night they still spent an average of $6mil per on him!

I won't even discuss what the Knicks gave Eddy Curry ($60mil over 6) or Jerome James ($30mil over 5). Let's just agree Zeke is fucked in the head and be done with it.

Philly gave that 7 foot shot blocking/rebounding king Samuel Dalembert $58mil over 6. He's so fucking good and if he could shoot he might even be worth $10mil per. Or maybe not.

Our old friend Mehmet Okur got $50mil over 6 from Utah, despite his piss poor D and love for the long jump shot. Imagine if he could block shots like Darko!

To claim that "darko hasnt shown squat to warrant even the dumbest team offering him that much" is just fucking insane.

Teams overpay for big guys.

And koolaid:

Joe does get the benefit of the doubt in every other situation because he's proven himself capable of trading for players and signing free agents that kick ass.

This is the one time he's sitting on his hands when it's obvious to everyone that Darko will not pan out in Detroit.
you made my point for me. every guy you named has gotten playing time enough to showcase their talent(regardless of how much a team overrates it).
but the truth is you wont find a team team dumb enough to guve that type of money to an unproven bench warmer. there are dumb teams out there, but not that dumb. but if you disagree, find someone who actually hasnt got a lick worth of playing time thats getting that type of dough please.

if you can find a certain group of players getting the amount of action the serbian dork is getting, then i'll drink your kool aid on the idea of darko getting money dumped on him..

like i said before, i think the darko haters in here actually embelish dorko's value on the market.

Yeah Gutz, no team is gonna pony up a starting salary of $7mil for Darko.

He'll be a 21 year old 7 footer that has spent part or all of his 4 NBA seasons under the watchful eyes of the following:

Ben Wallace, Rasheed Wallace, Antonio McDyess, Elden Campbell, Dale Davis, Larry Brown, Flip Saunders and Joe Dumars.

Yeah, I wouldn't offer him shit either.

Boston gave Mark Blount $38.5mil over 6 years.

Chicago gave Tyson Chandler $64mil over 6 and he's known to have back issues and isn't exactly an offensive machine.

Denver gave Marcus Camby $57mil over 6 in 2004, despite knowing his injury history and knowing that with age comes a higher risk of re-injury.

Golden State gave Adonal Foyle $51.2mil over 6 in 2004 because he can block shots, rebounds and apparently loves to set picks.

Just this past off-season Stromile Swift got $30mil over 5 from Houston and people considered that a steal. Yeah, right.

The Immortal Kwame Brown got $25mil over 3 years from the Lakers, despite him rarely showing anything. Oh yeah - he had some nice games here and there but if anyone believes he's worth $8 mil per you're fucked in the head.

Milwaukee gave Dan Gadzuric $36mil over 6 years AFTER drafting Andrew Bogut. So, knowing that this shot blocking, rebounding king was likely to come off the bench every night they still spent an average of $6mil per on him!

I won't even discuss what the Knicks gave Eddy Curry ($60mil over 6) or Jerome James ($30mil over 5). Let's just agree Zeke is fucked in the head and be done with it.

Philly gave that 7 foot shot blocking/rebounding king Samuel Dalembert $58mil over 6. He's so fucking good and if he could shoot he might even be worth $10mil per. Or maybe not.

Our old friend Mehmet Okur got $50mil over 6 from Utah, despite his piss poor D and love for the long jump shot. Imagine if he could block shots like Darko!

To claim that "darko hasnt shown squat to warrant even the dumbest team offering him that much" is just fucking insane.

Teams overpay for big guys.

And koolaid:

Joe does get the benefit of the doubt in every other situation because he's proven himself capable of trading for players and signing free agents that kick ass.

This is the one time he's sitting on his hands when it's obvious to everyone that Darko will not pan out in Detroit.

How many of those guys were RFA's? More specifically, how many of those RFA's didn't sign with their own team? Dalembert, Chandler and Curry had a ton of upside and showed a lot more than Darko ever did yet they didn't get any offers. I think Pachulia (and Curry) was the only one that didn't sign and that's because Milwauke drafted Bogut. I have not seen many RFA's that actually signed with a team other than their original team. Nash, Okur, KMart, JJ are the only RFA's that I can think of that didn't sign with their own team.

Granted, Darko could still get an offer from some team. But no team is going to offer him a contract just to see if they can get him. Teams sign RFA's to offer sheets only if they really want that player or if they are sure that the original team won't match. So we could do a S&T with Darko if he is signed to an offer sheet anyway. I am not sure about the rules regarding trades but I do know that the Nets traded KMart for 3 draft picks. So I am assuming we could do the same as long as we trade him to a team under the cap.