Long and Hart both will be playing and Hart is as healthy as he has been all year.


3 players did not make the trip. Max Martin as has already been mentioned.

Eugene Germany because of the purse snatching incident.

Adrian Arrington. I am trying to find out what is up with him not making the trip, but there has been no talk of him wanting out.

Woodley fell off a horse and has a sore butt.


Art

I just heard that AA is not in SA because of some team he broke. I am trying to get more info.


Art

Is AA getting a medical red-shirt? I remember him playing some (though not much) as a true freshman, not sure if he burned a year of eligibility or not. He needs to step up and be a gamer next season.

Onto Nebraska. Cornhuskers for crying out loud. How could you ever be cool with that as your mascot? I hope we pound the crap out of them and somewhere someone finds Scott Frost and crams a camera and mic in his face and asks him what he thinks now. Wait, is Bill Callahan retiring? If so, they might declare Nebraska the winner even if Michigan beats them by 30.

I believe he will receive a RS for this past season if he asks for one, but this is the NCAA we are talking about someting nothign is for sure.

Savoy is supposed to be the next Avant, just taller. He catches everything.


Art

This is the most useless thread. UM is going to fucking kill Neb.

The Pig12 blew this year. I don't think any more than a single representative is going to win a bowl this year (maybe Texas Tech, only because Alabama has zero offense.. all they have to do is score 10).

Texas is going to get killed by SC. Fuck that shit about SC having no D. They played a tougher schedule. Texas, aside from OSU, played nobody of real value.

The same can be said of Nebraska. UM played better opponents. They are going to devestate those Corn fed fucks.

UM 105
Cornholers 87

Michigan- 3 Nebraska 35

This game will determine the 97 champs.

With that said

Michigan 35
Nebraska 7

If Michigan wants to win by 40 they could, but this is a Carr coached team so if they win it will be by 3.



Art

Some interesting officiating so far. Horrible call on the Nebraska fumble. Horrible no-call on the Breaston kick return (should have been a 15 yard late hit penalty). That said, Michigan has crapped away multiple opportunities.

My cable crapped out so I have to check the game out on radio. Might be a blessing in disguise because this game fucking sucks.

Well Michigan is doing a lot of different things on D, as in blitzing a lot more. One long TD pass, but Neb got lucky that the fumble wasnt called.

Michigan is horrible on O. Thankfully they had the short field. They are not trying to run the ball hardly at all.

This is the worst safety play by the Wolverines all year. Both TD direct results of bad plays by Harrison and Adams.


Art

TOUCHDOWN NEBRASKA!

Wow what a game. I'm on the edge of my seat.

Let me make one thing perfectly clear first, Nebraska often outplayed Michigan tonight. Ok, now that we have that out of the way, we have to talk officiating. Tre, I know you'll make an appearance here. I know you watched this game and there is no way you can consider this your "typical Michigan fan whining". I know you say a team should never put themselves in this position, but come on. Multiple blown fumble calls. You watched the last play to Manningham and can't possibly deny the blatant pass interference. The refs decided this game. It had very little at all to do with the players. Michigan was without a chance at the end to stop the clock because, as Mike Tirico rightly said, "they had to burn two because of the incompetence of the replay official".
Bottom line - you have a bowl game between two storied programs and you send in JV refs. The fucking Sunbelt conference? Are you fucking kidding me? North Texas should be offended by these officials.

WTF WAS THAT?

I just want to say that Nebraska did not outplay Michigan tonight. It was too very evenly matched teams, but the refs decided to help one team more than the other.

Saying that, this was the worst officiated game I have ever seen in my life. I dont care about the nonreview of the fumble in the 1st quarter, or the fact that Michigan lost 2 timeouts because they had to waste them to get stuffed reviewed or the fact that Nebraska was able to save a TO by getting their INT reviewed without wasting one. I am not even mad about the end of the game. I am PISSED off about the non PI against Mario at the goal line.

I loved the attacking D that Michigan played tonight. If the safeties hadnt played their worst game of the year, we would have won calls notwithstanding.


Art

It shouldn't have come down to it, but if Tyler Ecker just gave the ball to Stevie B instead trying to be a hero we still would have won. I knew as soon as he grabbed the ball he had Cookie Jar Syndrome and was going for it. Most disappointing season for me in about a decade.

WTF WAS THAT?

Don't be jealous or anything...

Michigan fans, don't get suicidal on me. Here is why I'm not ticked off at all about the loss.

*There is a possibility for some change at Michigan. I know it probably won't happen, but there is a chance. It's clearly obvious that Lloyd Carr and his staff are not getting the most out of the upper echelon talent that Michigan has. I'm sure everyone will stay, but maybe we will see some changes at the coodinator posistions and (fingers crossed) maybe even LLLLoyd Carr will decide to hang up his whistle.

*Defensive coordinator Jim Hermann's gameplan was very aggressive. The blitzing and pressure on Taylor was great all night long. The only thing was that our young safeties, Jamar Adams and Brandon Harrison were EXPOSED! Let's hope we keep this aggressive attitude going into next year.

*The young talented players were on the field. Alot of utilization of Antonio Bass and Mario Manningham on offense, and plenty of Tim Jamison and Shawn Crable on defense. All of these playas impressed BIG TIME! Did you see Bass's one handed catch? Sick! :thumbright:

*It was the worst officiated game I have ever seen in my life, ask Mike Tirico. Michigan had to use 2 timeouts just to get plays reviewed, 2 incorrect calls on fumbles (first quarter fumble by Ross and Henne's fumble), pass interference on Manningham, and Nebraska having 68 players on the field during the last play) UGH! Sickening! :pukeright:

*Also, if you win the Alamo Bowl, who freaking cares?

In conclusion, it was a whack game that was horribly officiated, we saw some good things from some talented young cats in an aggressive gameplan and the end result could possibly be a major change at Michigan. Not a bad thing at all if you ask me.

Now, it's on to basketball season, check my sig! Petway is back!
http://www.mgoblue.com/images/basketball-m/04-05/und/01.jpg http://www.mgoblue.com/images/basketball-m/04-05/und/38.jpg http://www.mgoblue.com/images/basketball-m/04-05/und/05.jpg http://www.mgoblue.com/images/basketball-m/04-05/und/29.jpg

Ecker gave up at the end because the refs were waving their arms and blowing the play dead. There was no reason for him to continue on.



Art

First 5 loss season since 1984.

This could be a good loss, I'm ready for Lloyd to go now.


alsoididn'twatchthegame

Ecker gave up at the end because the refs were waving their arms and blowing the play dead. There was no reason for him to continue on.



Art

It didn't look that way to me, but if they did blow the play dead it's just another reason tacked onto the long list of horrendous calls made.

By the way, the minute Husker players started pouring onto the field there should have been a flag, Tirico said that too. It's nice when an announcer isn't afraid to speak the truth. The print media is covering the asses of the refs - which they often have to do - by saying both teams were on the field. True, but the Huskers bench poured on well before the Michigan bench and after any flag would have been thrown.

yeah, that was the worst officiated game I've ever seen. I agree with all the calls pointed out here. And I was yelling at the TV for Ecker to give the ball to breaston too. I didn't see any officials wave the play dead, but they were standing around instead of running with the ball.

You also missed the bad call where they ran an extra 10 seconds off the clock before Nebraska punted. The play clock did not start for a full 10 seconds after the runner was down and the refs had the ball. Perhaps they could have run a couple plays instead of that crazy play.

Has there been a more disappointing season for the state of Michigan football teams ever? The one crutch I've always had as a Lions fan is the fact that my Wolverines will always be very good. My heart just hurts after this year.

State fans had it just as bad, with the promise of a good season only to be taken away by a crazy old guy who can't coach.

It's nice when an announcer isn't afraid to speak the truth.

It helps that Tirico lives in Ann Arbor, or at least he used to.

I thought him and Kirk both called a spade a spade. Problem is, they failed to mention the pass interferance or rip on the refs at all in the highlights/recap of the game. Mike and Kirk were on top of it, but anyone that didn't watch the game won't know that and nobody else is taking the refs to task on their crap calls.

Here's a good recap of the bad calls. I forgot about the fumble they never called in the first half too.


Alamo Officials should have done something about final play
Thursday, December 29, 2005

By Bob Becker
The Grand Rapids Press

SAN ANTONIO -- There's a pretty good chance that most of the people who stayed up to watch the Michigan-Nebraska Alamo Bowl game Wednesday night turned their TVs off in disgust about 10 minutes too soon.

By dinner time tonight, ESPN will have shown that frantic back-and-forth final play a million times. And maybe, if you see it a couple of times, you will understand how much it matched the entire evening.

Pay close attention the next time you see a replay, and watch what the referee does. Jim Jackson, who helped put Sun Belt officiating back about half a century, is chasing Michigan's Tyler Ecker down the sideline.

He is step-for-step with Ecker, finally signaling the ball dead at the Nebraska 13.

And why is this important? Because by this time the entire Nebraska team was on the field, celebrating a game that had not been whistled over.

"The whistle never blew," Michigan senior Pierre Woods said. "I stood there and watched the guy chase Tyler down the field. The ball was live, but they had people everywhere. Their bench had cleared."

Not just Nebraska. The Alamo Bowl officials were wheeling out the trophies and presentation stand as Ecker made his 62-yard sprint. He was tackled by Nebraska's Zach Bowman and Titus Brothers on the Huskers' 13.

They were the only two Nebraska

players left between Michigan and the goal line. Ecker, on the other hand, had two teammates trailing him. He couldn't pitch, however, because the reviewing stand was being wheeled right out in front of them.

One goofy play does not make a football game. In fact, though a win is a win, Michigan would have been embarrassed to take one out of the loss column that way.

But it was a fitting ending to this season, a season when so many things went right for 45 minutes, then just came apart in the last 15.

"We talked about finishing for a month," running back Michael Hart said. "But we just couldn't do it. There is no way that game should have ever come down to that last play."

Once again Michigan did itself in. Holding a 28-17 lead with 11:40 left, the Wolverines forced Nebraska into three-and-out. But Michigan couldn't do anything either, and punted the ball back to the Cornhuskers, and this time it took only two plays for a score and a two-point conversion.

How many times have we see this scenario? At Wisconsin? Against Minnesota at home? Against Ohio State at home?

Something is missing, and nobody had managed to get it figured out. The Lloyd Carr haters will put it on the coach's shoulders, and he deserves some of it, simply because he's in charge.

But Garrett Rivas missed a field goal. Jason Avant coughed up the ball, which Nebraska converted into the winning drive, Chad Henne forced a pass into the back corner of the end zone that was intercepted, taking away the chance for at least three points.

And then you have the clowns from the Sun Belt. Is that really a Division I conference?

In the first quarter, Nebraska's Cory Ross fumbled. It was so obvious that TV didn't need to show multiple angles to make the call. But a call was never made, because, for some reason, it was never reviewed.

One play later Nebraska had its first touchdown.

Late in the game Henne had the ball knocked out of his hand as he tried a pass. His follow-through was easily evident, but instead of an incomplete pass, the ball was ruled a fumble and turned over to Nebraska, who then took it in for a score.

The last play should not have been the last play, goofy as it was. There was a point that the ball hit the ground during multiple exchanges, but if it was a backwards toss, it was a fumble and not an incomplete pass.

Nobody blew the whistle, and as previously noted, the referee actually chased the ball down the field, as the Nebraska bench emptied in celebration.

Carr had to use up a time out to allow a review of a "touchdown" pass, which the replay showed had hit the ground. Nebraska lost the seven points, but Michigan lost a time-out, which would have been worth gold in that final drive.

Michigan did the deed, but the officiating should face charges as an accomplice. Anybody who invests time and money into big-time college football has a right to expect more competence than they got here Wednesday night.

But that doesn't let Michigan off the hook.

The Wolverines let opportunity slip away five times this season. That's five times too many.

Carr has to figure out what went wrong. One time can be chalked up to bad fortune. Five times means something serious is out of kilter.

And please, spare me. It's not the coaching.

The coaching got that 11 point lead. The players on the field gave it back.

Two of the finest football programs in NCAA history met here Wednesday. A game like that should never come down to a play made up in the huddle.

This game is not even worth talking about...It was a pure and utter joke from every angle...thank god Petway is back. I am done with UM Football this year

WTF WAS THAT?

Don't be jealous or anything...I'd rather not be in a bowl than lose to a shitty team in a shitty bowl. Plus 3 bowls games in a row they have lost.

State had a mental breakdown this season, which means next season they will be better.

I don't think it's a matter of a majority type thing. Both teams had people on the field. Several Michigan coaches, players and/or managers where 10-15 yards onto the field by the end of the play. Obviously it wasn't the 60 Nebraska players but like I said I don't think it matters.

That was just bizarre. How fucked up would that've been had Michigan scored. :shock: Why was there no lateral at the very end? Why would you let yourself get tackled out of bounds? Just throw the ball behind you, keep the bastard alive.

I keep getting conflicted versions.

The latest is that while they both had people on the field....only one side had a player tackle the guy with the ball who wasnt in the play when it started.


Art

State has a mental breakdown every year after they lose to UM.


Art

I doesn't matter how many people Michigan had on the field....they still couldn't have stopped Nebraska's running game.

And again....what does michigan losing have to do with MSU? Can you guys please tank a fucking game without somehow dragging MSU into it? The next time some Ann Arbor yahoo decides that he's going to boldly explain that their big rivalry is Ohio State, I'm going to laugh until I pass out. There is no rivalry with Ohio State anymore...they own you. Now we can get back to the actual rivalry. You can beat us at football and we can beat you at basketball...and we can both continue to win absolutely zero national championships in either sport. Agreed?

I don't think it's a matter of a majority type thing. Both teams had people on the field. Several Michigan coaches, players and/or managers where 10-15 yards onto the field by the end of the play. Obviously it wasn't the 60 Nebraska players but like I said I don't think it matters.

That was just bizarre. How fucked up would that've been had Michigan scored. :shock: Why was there no lateral at the very end? Why would you let yourself get tackled out of bounds? Just throw the ball behind you, keep the bastard alive.

Because Tyler Ecker is a complete moron. He jicked it up at the end of the Ohio State game. He caught a pass 1 foot away from the sideline with 2 seconds to go. Instead of running out of bounds, stopping the clock and giving us a Hail Mary opportunity, he turns it upfield and gets tackled, running out the clock. It was a ridiculous fitting end, to a ridiculous season.

Had he got in the endzone, that would have been better than the Cal Stanford ending. Dudes brought it back to their 5 yard line.

7-5

Wow, how the mighty have fallen.

Still better than what MSU has put up in recent years.


Art

I doesn't matter how many people Michigan had on the field....they still couldn't have stopped Nebraska's running game.

And again....what does michigan losing have to do with MSU? Can you guys please tank a fucking game without somehow dragging MSU into it? The next time some Ann Arbor yahoo decides that he's going to boldly explain that their big rivalry is Ohio State, I'm going to laugh until I pass out. There is no rivalry with Ohio State anymore...they own you. Now we can get back to the actual rivalry. You can beat us at football and we can beat you at basketball...and we can both continue to win absolutely zero national championships in either sport. Agreed?

Wait so just because Michigan has dropped a few to OSU there is no rivalry anymore? Does that mean that when Michigan beat OSU 11 out of 13 times that it wasn't a rivalry? Just because times are good for OSU doesn't mean that the rivalry is gone. It's still the best rivalry in football. OSU is up, Michigan is down. That's how a historical rivalry goes.

Still better than what MSU has put up in recent years.


Art

Tisk tisk tisk.....now there is no reason what-so-ever to use MSU as a stepping stool in this arguement. What does this prove?


And as far as actual rivalries go: UM vs. OSU is undoubtedly the best rivalry in ALL sports. I just don't think that the UM'ers on this site really act accordingly. Like I said, UM can have football (and hockey currently) and MSU can have basketball (at least for the time being) and then both schools can continue to take a backseat to Duke, Florida State, USC, Kentucky, North Carolina, Notre Dame (even though no one even remebers the last time they actually won anything in any major sport), and any team from a Texas school.

There. Now is everyone happy?

We could talk about how the BIG 10 is the most competitve conference in ANY major sport yet we still get shit on in the polls....we could talk about how the BCS is totally jacked....we could talk about how Notre Dame gets their dicks sucked by every media outlet in the land for no good reason....we could talk about how Jim Tressel HAD to have made a deal with the Devil or AT LEAST has mob connections....but NO. We have to continue to shit in each other's picinic baskets about who's school is better....or better yet: which school whines the most. Well guess what? It's a tie. An honest to God dead assed no-holds-barred fucking tie.

I feel like the Dr. King of in-state sports rivalries....."I have a dream.....that one day all of the sports fans in Michigan will concentrate their hate on issues that matter. We've got to rRIIIIISE up and tell the BCS what kind of bitches they truely are (YEAH!)...and maybe someday someone could tell the people of South Bend that their team is a bunch of overrated turds (HELL YEAH!). I envision a land where the Big 10 gets some respect (YOU TELL 'EM!)....I dream of a place where blue white green and maize can walk hand in hand down the street without putting big KICK ME signs on each other's backs (PREACH ON!)."


Sorry, forgot my meds.

It was directed at Bush and his mighty have fallen.

If he aint a state fan, then he needs to claim allegiance so he can be FUUUCCKKKEEDDD UPPPPPPPP!!!


Art

Me? A Spartan fan?

ROFL

He's a University of South Carolina fan....which is to say that he likes COCKS!

moving on....

Well I think overall being a Spartan fan would be better than a Cock fan, because at least the Spartans are good at one sport.


Art

Who is this Dubya clown anyhow? A relabel from the previous site? It must be for him to have found this place so quickly. Either that or he's a friend of someone. I wish I had a log of all the old ip addresses from the original wtf to compare. I know he's an AOL user and that's as much as I can find out.
Declare yourself Dubya.

Well I think overall being a Spartan fan would be better than a Cock fan, because at least the Spartans are good at one sport.


Art

No, no, no....he just likes cock. Plain old cock.

Haha.


Art

He's a University of South Carolina fan....which is to say that he likes COCKS!

moving on....

That was REALLY lame.

Who is this Dubya clown anyhow? A relabel from the previous site? It must be for him to have found this place so quickly. Either that or he's a friend of someone. I wish I had a log of all the old ip addresses from the original wtf to compare. I know he's an AOL user and that's as much as I can find out.
Declare yourself Dubya.

Don't worry about who I am.

Who is this Jethro34 clown?

By the way, I know now. I won't reveal it to everyone else here, I leave that up to you. Needless to say, all the mods know who you are/were.

75% of the board already knows who I am, but good work, Sherlock.

Hi Archie.

sup Steven

sup Steven :salute:

You damn right.

I had to click on the AIM button to figure it out, but now I know.

Okay, first of all, Jethro is a legend.

"I just don't mess with legends, that's just somethin' I don't do"
- Game

Okay, I was told my opinion was being asked for here on this thread. So here it is:

Terrible officiating. The worst being Carr having to call timeouts for replay and the 10 second clock delay. 90% of the bad officiating went against UM. Do they have reason to complain? yes. And I expect them to because that's what UM fans do, they whine.

Why am I not more understanding of the terrible officiating? History. The officiating was some of the worst I've seen, but it wasn't as bad as the officiating in the MSU/Hawaii game 2 years ago.

UM fans here did not except my complaints about the officiating in that game, so why should I be cool about it in regards to this one?

You were #3 in the Nation, you finished 7-5 after numerous choke jobs, so be quiet. You shouldn't have even been in this bowl in the first place. You own MSU, you did much better than us, but this is your sport and you've choked it up again. 3 straight losses in bowl games=unacceptable

I see why UM didn't get invited to the Outback Bowl.

I see why UM didn't get invited to the Outback Bowl.

Umm, I don't think you do.

By the way, your sig needs to be a URL, not a reference to your hard drive.

I wasnt here for the MSU/Hawaii thing, but come on that was MSU and Hawaii, does anyone really care about those programs with regards to football?

So since Michigan was ranked #3 in the preseason (before injuries to Long, Hart, Breaston, etc.) they should have maintained that all year?

BTW what has happened to MSU football the last few years....oh yeah they lose to UM and then go in the tank.

Your B-Ball team is great, but you really need to find a new Football team to root for..:)


Art

Agreed, nobody cared about MSU/Hawaii. The same could be said for that pointless Alamo Bowl. I was just making a point. Don't come to me looking for compassion when none is returned.

I agree with you on our football program as well. I'm a fan ALWAYS, A supporter ALWAYS, but I'm not about to defend them until they deserve it.

In response to being #3 and maintaining: Yes, if you are #3 to start the season you should maintain that or at least stay in the Top 10. You shouldn't be 7-5. Maybe drop 2 because of injuries, not 5. I don't care if they had injuries or not. Take those injured players off the field and Michigan still had more talent than anyone they played outside of OSU and you know that.

3 straight losses in bowl games=unacceptable

Tre, sure it sucks, losing to Nebraska is a joke, but remember the last 2 bowl losses were to USC and Texas and I think we all know how good they are and what they're playing for this year.

Being ranked high means nothing. It just means that the experts are morons. Michigan was overrated to begin the season with. At least Michigan had a better year than Tennessee..:)


Art

Tre, sure it sucks, losing to Nebraska is a joke, but remember the last 2 bowl losses were to USC and Texas and I think we all know how good they are and what they're playing for this year.

If you claim to be "The Leaders and the Best," then I think you should back that up once in awhile. I took this stance at the start of the season and the Michigan fans blasted me for it, well looks like I wasn't far off. I said "Michigan is NOT currently one of the elite programs in college football." My argument was that they can't beat the best. In the big games, they lose.

Jim Rome backed up my opinion today when he blasted Michigan for about an hour, talking about how they can never win the big one.

I can't relate in football being a MSU fan, but I often compare Michigan Football to Michigan State Basketball since those are the two things that us fans pride ourselves on. The thing that I'm most proud of in terms of MSU basketball is that they can beat ANYBODY. They live up to expectations (more often than not) and they can beat the nation's best. In the past 5 years MSU has beat Duke, North Carolina, Kentucky, Arizona, UConn, Wake Forest, Georgia Tech, Oklahoma, Florida, Illinois, UCLA, Stanford, and Boston College just to name a few at least once and many of them twice or more.

Michigan needs to start doing the same if they want to be considered the best of the best.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/9140954


The 50-Man Defense: You're forgiven if you were not up 'till midnight Eastern watching the final play of the Michigan-Nebraska bowl game -- but the officials weren't watching, either. Nebraska led 32-28 with two seconds remaining, Michigan ball on its 36. The Wolverines threw the hook-and-ladder, and then started lateraling. There were five laterals and two fumbles on the play -- see the final entry here -- which resulted in Michigan's Tyler Ecker running down the right sideline to the Nebraska 13, where he was tackled. But the instant the clock hit all naughts the Cornhusker sideline rushed the field; at least 50 Nebraska players, coaches and team officials in sport jackets coming onto the gridiron while the play was still in progress. Two Michigan coaches also came onto the field during the play. Why were no penalties assessed? The NCAA rulebook -- see section FR114, 9.2, under "conduct of players" -- specifies it's a 15-yard unsportsmanlike penalty to enter the field during a live ball. That's 15 yards per incident, meaning about 50 unsportsmanlike conduct penalties could have been assessed against Nebraska, plus two against Michigan. The result would have been offsetting penalties and Michigan replays the down.

But TMQ thinks a different rule should have been enforced -- the "unfair acts" provision. You've probably never heard of the "unfair acts" clause -- I've watched far, far too much football and never beheld this rule invoked, but it seems tailor-made for what happened at the Alamo Bowl. See page 116 of the NCAA rulebook; Article 3.C states, "If an obviously unfair act not specifically covered by the rules occurs during the game, the referee may take any action he considers equitable, including assessing a penalty, awarding a score or suspending or forfeiting the game." For Nebraska to flood the gridiron with 50 players and team personnel during a play, with the game's outcome on the line, was an "obviously unfair act" -- it deprived Michigan runners of roughly half the field. Watch the replay; as the ball madly bounces, all the Michigan runners move toward the right, because on the left side of the field is a 50-man wall! It's pretty hard to score against a 50-man defense. Yet Michigan almost did score against a 50-man defense, which tells us the Wolverines might indeed have gotten a touchdown and won the game had Nebraska not committed an "obviously unfair act" by denying Michigan access to half the field. (From an officiating standpoint it makes no difference whether Nebraska intended to be unfair or simply rushed the field by accident because the Huskers thought the game was over; whether a penalty is committed intentionally or by accident is irrelevant.)

Every coach from the high school level up knows that extra players cannot run onto the field during a play. Every coach knows that if players do run onto the field during a play, the penalty is harsh. Nebraska's entire team ran onto the field during the game-deciding play -- yet not a single yellow flag. That's spectacular officiating ineptitude. Maybe the Sun Belt Conference zebras working this game were anxious to head to the locker room and didn't care about doing their jobs properly. Whatever the explanation, "Sun Belt Conference officials" will now be synonymous with incompetence, while "Alamo Bowl" will now be synonymous with botched game supervision. That leaves the question of how. Had the game been adeptly officiated, the unfair acts rule would have been enforced. You can make a case the referee should have awarded Michigan a touchdown: Otherwise you're saying that whenever a runner breaks into the clear, it's legal for 50 guys to walk on the field and stand in his way. Here is what I think would have been the "equitable" resolution: The ball should have been placed at the Nebraska 13, the point the runner reached, and Michigan given one untimed down.

In case you're wondering, the NFL's equivalent provision, Rule 11.2.2.2., states, "The referee may award a touchdown when a palpably unfair act deprives the offended team of one." So if the Alamo Bowl situation happened in the NFL, officials could have awarded six points, but could not have dreamed up an "equitable" solution such as allowing one more snap. Another provision allows the commissioner to reverse the outcome of an NFL contest if a team commits an "extraordinarily unfair act" that has "a major effect on the result of the game," which pretty much was the Nebraska-Michigan situation.

Replies to Tre's takes -

First, you talked about how if you take those players off the team they lose a couple maybe, and that's fine, but not 5. That argument is fine if the losses are blowouts, but it does nothing when they are all close games. The closest thing Michigan had to a "blowout" loss was to Notre Dame by 7, the same amount of points they would have had if the TD ruling would have been correct on the play before the fumble. So if you look at some of the teams you would consider more elite than Michigan, tkae Auburn. 3 losses, total margin 26 points. Miami. 3 losses, 44 points. Virginia Tech. 2 losses, 26 points. My point? Michigan's last 6 losses are by a TOTAL of 22 points. Yes, injuries can certainly justify the difference in those close games. And they aren't exactly losses to embarrassing teams. All 6 of those are bowl teams, 3 of them are BCS bowl teams - Texas, Notre Dame and Ohio State and they aren't exactly like Florida State getting in on a conference championship. Nortoe Dame and Ohio State were there at large. I would say that when you're facing that type of competition, multiple injuries to key players with talent AND HEART can certainly be understood.

Second, you used State basketball in your argument and talked about all the big teams you've beaten. Did you beat NC when it counted? Did you win a national championship that I missed somewhere? No, you didn't. Your loss to NC can be viewed the same as bowl losses to USC and Texas. As for all the other teams you've beaten in the past 5 years, that's fine. In the past 5 years Michigan has beaten Wisconsin, Penn State, Ohio State, Notre Dame, Florida, Iowa, Purdue (when it meant something), Utah, etc. We can both rattle off lists. In the past 5 years State has LOST TO Duke, George Washington, Wisconsin, Illinois, North Carolina, Gonzaga, Kansas, Oklahoma, Kentucky, UCLA, Syracuse, Villanova, Texas, Nevada, and Oklahoma State. You claim to be elite because of all the teams you've beaten, yet most of them have beaten you as well. Could Michigan just beef up their non-conference schedule and win half the games and go to a BCS bowl in spite of their losses just because everyone wanted to hump their schedule? No, because football doesn't work like that. You can't compare the two that way. If they were even remotely similar State would have been knocked out of contention for anything in the first 3 weeks of the last several seasons. So don't give me that crap. Your boys cramped up and lost to freaking Hawaii. To use your line, even without the cramped players you had far more talent than Hawaii, so why the embarrassing loss? If you would have had the same problems against a few othewr teams, you would have lost those too. You heard the names of Jamar Adams and Brandon Harrison a lot this year. Adams was #4 on the safety depth chart and Harrison was moved from CB to what would have been #5. True soph and true freshman. Started several games together. Mike Hart finished what, 3 or 4 games? Jake Long's injury may have been the biggest. Add in others that were so early most people didn't even know about them, and you have the equivalent of your 4 guys out with cramps. At least they got to play half of the game.

I’m going to restate what I already said, Can you maybe attribute a couple of losses this year to injury? Yes. But, you want a free pass for a season of underachievement and disappointment. That’s a joke.

That entire argument was just one giant Michigan excuse as usual. If you lose, blame someone else or make excuses right Lloyd?

In response to your list of teams you’ve beaten, you list differs from mine. How? My list contains every big name in college basketball. Your list looks like the Big Ten conference. Face it, you put Duke, UNC, Kentucky, Arizona, UConn, on the court and we can beat them. You put USC, Texas, Miami, OU, LSU, OSU etc. on the field and you can’t beat them.
In response to your Hawaii comment. First of all, bringing up the Hawaii game was just a lame shot at State. You just sound like a pissed off fan that is bitter about his teams sucking so you are going to take a shot at State. But, I’ll answer. >>If State lost Brown, Ager, Davis, and Neitzel in that game, then no they did not still have more talent on the court. They had a bunch of freshman and redshirt freshman. You even defended the loss yourself on our site and now you are saying the opposite, did you think I’d forget?

In response to UNC, yes you did forget about a National Championship. 2000 remember? We beat UNC that year (Final Four team) and we also beat them the following year. Nice try. We beat 75% of the teams on my list when it counted in the tourney. Nice try.

Your cheap shots regarding UNC and Hawaii just expose your bitterness for what is going on right now. Your football team was a gigantic disappointment and you don’t trust your bball team to save you. Meanwhile, the Spartans are actually living up to the hype and could be in the Top 5 in the Nation following this week’s games.

Yes, I defended the loss at SFFF. From everything I read it was crazy and certainly wasn't a healthy State squad. I said that. I said you could not judge State based on that game. Well, here you are trying to judge Michigan based on games when they lost important players. Tell me this, is there anyone on Hawaii's roster more talented than your boy Marquis Gray? Travis Walton, Goran Sutton, Rowley, Naymick - any one of those guys would be Hawaii's top recruit in 15 years, wouldn't they? Don't even try to bring up guys like Ibok, Aerts and "MoJo", because they played a combined 14 minutes. Hardly running out a lineup that was less talented. Truth is your boys shot 38% in the first half, so they sucked long before the cramps took over. The 4 guys that left the game still played a total of 108 minutes combined, so you don't have any excuses for the first half or the 7 point halftime deficit. You have more excuses for Hawaii tacking on another 15 points to the lead by the end, but still not the talent excuse. You've bragged far too many times about how highly those guys were recruited. Rowley, Naymick, Gray and Joseph were all 4 star recruits according to Rivals. The rest were all 3 star. Hawaii has 2 guys that were 3 stars and the rest were less than that. I'm not taking a shot, I'm using your "still had more talent" excuse against you.

By the way, convenient for you to bring up the 2000 National Championship in an argument where you reference "the last 5 years" repeatedly. Newsflash, April 2000 was 7 months before 5 years ago. You're limited to January 2001 and anything since. I mean, we can back up if you like. Let's play into my convenience and back up another few years and tack on our National Championship. Let's add victories over Shawn Alexander's Tide or Rudi Johnson's Auburn Tigers. Was your team not a gigantic dissappointment in 2004 when they lost to Nevada in the first round? Absolutely. And yet, for you, they never lost elite status. Even though they started the year 5-7 they were still elite for you, weren't they? So you're going to give me crap about Michigan football in spite of that double standard? Our last 2 bowl losses before Nebraska were to teams that have now gone on to win the National Championsip the following years. Michigan came closer to beating that Texas team than anyone has since. USC not only won the Championship the following year, but their victory in the bowl game with us gave them one as well. A very strong argument can be made for counting that the same as your loss to NC. This year has been horrible for Michigan, but in no way does it drop them from the ranks of elite. You put a healthy Michigan squad against anyone in the country and they can play them strong, possibly even win. I can't guarantee a win but the fact of the matter is, neither can you. Both teams and both coaches have Championships and huge wins over top teams. Either both are elite or neither is elite - not when you can keep your elite status with an 18-12 season and we lose ours with a 7-5. Oh wait, that's right, you never gave us credit even before that. Spartan hypocracy - don't leave home without it.

You can argue all you want, but the truth is: Michigan Football is developing a reputation for not being able to win the big one and being an overrated team.

That's not me saying it, that's the rest of the country. Since the bowl game, I heard this exact topic being discussed in great depth on The Jim Rome Show, The James Brown Show, The Huge Show, and it was discussed by the College Game Day crew. They ALL made the exact same argument I'm making.

You are right, we shouldn't have lost to Hawaii. But, what does that matter? Our reputation of being able to beat the nation's best is not in question. Everyone knows MSU can beat anybody.

Don't lose site of the argument. Michigan can't win the big game. They can't beat the Nation's best. Michigan State has proven time and time again that they can beat anyone.

Michigan is all of a sudden not an elite football program because of a five loss season(their first in over twenty seasons)? That's absolutely stupid. By that logic, no team in college football is elite. Just four-five years ago USC was in the gutter. It's a cycle.

You are right, we shouldn't have lost to Hawaii. But, what does that matter? Our reputation of being able to beat the nation's best is not in question. Everyone knows MSU can beat anybody.


That's bull and you know it. They haven't done anything more than Michigan football in the last 5 years. No National title. Some nice wins in tournaments and what not, but they haven't made it to the biggest game, so how can you say they can win the big game when they haven't been there since 2000? Oooooh, they've made it to some final fours. Have they finished every season since 2000 with a loss? Yes they have. Have they had some horrible regular seasons since then? Yes they have. By definition, same boat as Michigan football. I don't give a crap who is saying what. Facts are facts.

Look at the comparison between the two programs over your standard, the last 5 seasons.
Winning percentage:
Michigan 71% (44-18)
Michigan State 70% (113-49)
National Championships:
Michigan 0
Michigan State 0
Times reaching "Elite" status (by definition, final 8 teams)
Michigan 2
Michigan State 3
Season ended with losses to:
Michigan - Tennessee, USC, Texas, Nebraska (beat Florida to end the season in 2002)
Michigan State - Arizona, NC State, Texas, Nevada, UNC

Show me what stat clearly seperates the two and makes State "the definition of elite" while Michigan is not?

By the way, you know better than to EVER use anything "Huge" said in an argument with me. I get 1 point just because you referenced that dumbass.
By the way, you rip how bad things were for Michigan after being ranked #3 in the preseason poll. Remind me what State was ranked in the 2003-04 hoops pre-season poll. How interesting, #3. That's right. Look it up, October 30, 2003.
SPARTAN HYPOCRACY!

...and people say that OSU is Michigan's biggest rival. I'm using this thread as my mutha fuckin' thesis, bitches!

Football season is over (thank God for that). Now it's basketball season. Time for MSU to shine. Time for UofM to go and get their fuckin' shine box. It's the way it's been for a while now...who's suprised? I, for one, will never see the point of this arguement when college football bowl games are decided by a bunch of people who are doing nothing more but guessing or putting numbers into a computer. At least when MSU reaches the Final 4 (again)....they will have had to have beaten 5 good teams to EARN their spot.

Also, they have already "guessed" at what the pre-season football rankings will be next year. Michigan is number 9....if you believe the kind folks at ESPN.com. Good times.

5 good teams. So Old Dominion and Vermont are good, but Michigan football is a joke.

I'm sorry Jethro, but there is more than 1 big game every college basketball season. Everyone in the world but you would admit that the Duke-MSU game last year was huge. They would say the same thing about the MSU-Kentucky game. I would say the same thing in football about your last two Ohio State games and your two Rose Bowl games.

You keep citing 04 for MSU. That is one season in the last decade that we didnt' live up to expectations. Michigan State has finished in the Top 8 5 of the last 7 seasons! We live up to expectations.

I'm not asking Michigan to win every big game. MSU doesn't win every big game. I'm asking Michigan to win SOME. Seems like every year they are playing an early hyped game against the Irish or a National Showdown versus the Pac-10's best, what happens? They lose. They pull it together (to their credit) and have the Ohio State game for the BT Championship, what happens? They lose.

Then bowl season starts. How does Michigan fair in the most important game of their season? Well, they've lost the last 3. 2 of which could have been HUGE statement games. They've lost more in the Rose than they've won. Lloyd's lost more bowl games than he's won.

Check on Tom Izzo's winning percentage come tourney time. Let me save you the trouble, Izzo holds the best tourney winning percentage in the entire nation and that includes Mr. K.

When the nation is watching, we win. When the nation is watching, Michigan loses.

I never said Michigan football was a joke. I just don't understand your arguement.

Do you guys even know what you're arguing about anymore? Someone please clue me in. Don't get me wrong....I enjoy the banter....I just don't really get it.

Oh and Old Dominion and Vermont were at least good enough to make it to the tourney. You can average them out with the Kentucky and the Duke teams that MSU beat. It's actually too bad that we couldn't finish off UNC. To beat Duke Kentucky AND UNC on the way to the final game would have been BRILLIANT.

According to Jethro, beating UNC wouldn't have mattered. Unless it's the NC, nothing matters. No other games are big. :lol:

It's gonna take you years to dig out of that statement Jethro haha 8)

When the nation is watching, we win. When the nation is watching, Michigan loses.

As long as Michigan beats Notre Dame when the whole nation is watching then I'm cool with them....and I'm a Sparty.

That's not me saying it, that's the rest of the country. Since the bowl game, I heard this exact topic being discussed in great depth on The Jim Rome Show, The James Brown Show, The Huge Show, and it was discussed by the College Game Day crew. They ALL made the exact same argument I'm making.

OK, first off, shouldn't you be teaching? James Brown is on at like 10 AM, Rome comes on at noon, and huge is on at 3.

Also, just like Shug said, people still believe in Michigan, they're at an early #9 for next year.

You say our bowl games are the biggest game of the year. That's not necessarily the case. Sure the 2 Rose Bowls were huge, but were they bigger than the games vs. an undefeated # 15 ND and # 4 Ohio State or # 9 (your boys) Michigan State in 2003? (All wins by the way) Which game was bigger this year, the win (and ony team to beat) #3 Penn St., the victory against (pre-flopping) # 11 Michigan State, or the Alamo Bowl vs. Nebraska?

Those all look like some quality wins to me.

And what about the 2003-2004 season where Izzo got too big for his britches and scheduled Kansas, Duke, Oklahoma, Kentucky, UCLA, Syracuse AND LOST TO EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM! Not to mention 3 losses to Wisconsin, one to Purdue, and Illinois. They got into the NCAA tournament and lost to Nevada. That doesn't exactly sound like elite to me.

Whoa, whoa, whoa....let's get a few things straight here.

Let's all remember that Shugs is, and always will be a Sparty...so any knocks against Izzo are RIDICULOUS. He's never too big for his britches. He welcomes the top tier teams...and for good reason: he wants to see where his team stands. He should be applauded for that and never ridiculed. I don't think its balls as much as it's just a plain old good idea.

Secondly...Michigan gets a high ranking because of the exceptional coaching/ recruiting ability of Lloyd Carr. Yeah, that's right, Carr is a coaching king among men. I would absolutely KILL to have him coach our team. Not only does his record speak for itself, but he wasn't even interviewed for that job....it was given to him when Moeller lost his frickin marbles. So I guess it's pretty fortunate that he just happened to be there at the right time. I can't even beleive that most of you UofM'ers are calling for his head. What the fuck is the matter with you guys? Sure he makes mistakes, but his win percentage still kicks ass in a conference where most of the teams are good or have a chance to be good every year. What team out there doesn't circle Michigan on their calandar every fucking year? Don't you think that Wisconsin, Purdue, Iowa, MSU, Ohio State, Minnesota, and even Northwestern play their toughest when faced with the opportunity to knock off the high and mighty Michigan?

So again.....I ask you.....what is the fucking arguement?

Tre, 03-04 was the one bad season in the last decade? 18-12 and a 1st round loss is the only one huh? That's funny, because I remember that just two years before that your squad was 19-12 with a first round loss to NC State. Now either that one extra loss makes that an amazing season or your definition of decade is different than mine.

fu·til·i·ty ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fy-tl-t)
n. pl. fu·til·i·ties
1.) The quality of having no useful result; uselessness.
2.) Lack of importance or purpose; frivolousness.
3.) A futile act.

Can't change the stripes on a tiger, I guess.

I like how this is still stickied.

According to Jethro, beating UNC wouldn't have mattered. Unless it's the NC, nothing matters. No other games are big. :lol:

It's gonna take you years to dig out of that statement Jethro haha 8)

But yet you always somehow have a clean slate...

I do agree with you though, especially since the Navarre era ended, we haven't won ANY big games.

Losing 3 out of our 4 rivalry games, and losing repeatedly in the post season does not live up to our standards of being the program with the most wins. We are definently on the decline, and we need a shakeup.

We don't need anymore "Michigan Men"

If we aren't in the thick of a national title race next year, Carr should be taken out of his position IMMEDIATLY.

Edit: It is by no means the players, look at Chad Henne and Mike Hart and Steve Breaston in every big game, THEY COME TO PLAY, minues the Notre Dame games really. Our players are there, but its the upstairs calls that ruin us.

Moodini, I don't teach over Christmas break. Do you?

I think you guys are letting your maize and blue loyalty take over.

MSU is not under scrutiny right now. They've proven they can beat anyone in the country. They don't win all their big games (last night-ugh!), but since the Flintstones there isn't a team in the nation that they haven't beaten. Let's be honest, 4 Final Fours in 7 Years. Everyone knows they are Elite. Who are you guys kidding? Mood you even called them Elite on the phone with me on Tues. haha Gotcha! :wink:

Michigan is under scrutiny with their fans, alums, and the media because of their inability to win BT clinching games and bowl games. We all know that they are Elite in terms of the history of college football. But, we also know that there is a difference between Michigan and the USC's, Texas', OSU's of football right now. You've all said the same thing in coversations with me, yet you get defensive when I bring it up on the forums.

Michigan has all the ability in the world to regain their elite status. But, right now they are having trouble winning the big one and they are not on the level as the teams stated above. MSU is at that level in basketball. There is nobody in the country that MSU can't beat. When you finish Top 4, 4 out of last 7 years you can't question that. So be honest. You don't have to get away from reality just because you are in a trash talk war.

p.s.- Jethro the year you mentioned MSU did not have high expectations, just lost jrich and randolph, started 3 freshmen, got a courtesy Top 25 ranking at the start because of the 3 Previous Final Four visits.

That's my last take. Peace

Carr is not an exceptional coach. He is an average coach with better than average talent, bordering on great talent.

Izzo is a great coach and as long as MSU beats Kentucky (the state I live in)...I can give them a free pass on lots of things. I love when the beat Kentucky because I get to rub these assholes faces in it. No one is more arrognant than a UK basketball fan.

Back to Carr. I wont even share the rumor I heard about the next HC at UM, because if it happens (not Hermann), I will be mighty pissed.

Michigan's biggest problem is making all these "athletes" into big slow players. A lot of these guys come in very atheletic get on our S&C program and become slow and too thick.


Art

When the nation is watching, we win. When the nation is watching, Michigan loses.

Hmm....I think the nation was watching Thursday night vs. Illinois.


There is nobody in the country that MSU can't beat.

Apparently everyone but Illinois. Lost at the Breslin last year and in Champaign this year.

Tre, Yeah, I did say it was tight you got to see something on an elite level in a phone conversation (discussing your trip to an MSU practice. Because that is absolutely amazing :shock: ) Sure, they have a great program right now, but I don't see them up there with Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina, and UConn. State has had some recent deep tourney runs, but when's the last time they won the Big Ten? I seriously don't know. I went to the Big Ten website and it only goes back to the 2001-2002 season, and MSU is not listed once.

Martin killed the program for the last 10 years.

UM will win a B-Ball Big Ten title sooner than MSU wins a football Big Ten title.


Art

Apparantly Moodini is posting without reading:


DrTre11 >>"I'm not asking Michigan to win every big game. MSU doesn't win every big game."

What I am asking is for Michigan to win maybe half of their big games. Maybe split with OSU. Maybe win 1 or 2 of your last 3 bowl games.

MSU didn't win every big game last year. Lost to Illinois and UNC. But, they beat Duke and Kentucky.

We win big games, Michigan doesn't.

UM will win a B-Ball Big Ten title sooner than MSU wins a football Big Ten title.
>Art
Hey Art, do you have anything that you'd like to base your opinion on?

I'd like to disagree and here is my proof.

1) Michigan Basketball has not finished in the top 64 teams in 8 years.
2) Michigan Basketball has not won a Big Ten Championship in 20 years.
3) Michigan Basketball has not been in the Top 25 since 1997.

4) Michigan State Football finished in the Top 5 in 2000.
5) Michigan State Football won their last Big Ten Championship less than 20 years ago.
6) Michigan State Football has been not only in the Top 25, but in the Top 10 2 of the last 3 seasons.


Keep coming with opinions and absolutely nothing to back them up.

Moodini, I forgot to address your weak Illinois cheap shot. So here it goes:

You are right. I wish Michigan State had an unranked Football and Basketball team like Michigan.

Too easy.

Ok, in response to your arguments Tre, I'll pass up a Big Ten Championship for a National Championship, like 1989. But we all know how much those less significant championships mean to you.

Fair enough, but you've gotta admit that Art came with an opinion with no backing at all.

Jethro, I just noticed your Avatar. That wouldn't be a form of Wolverine whining would it? C'mon now! I thought all my whining harassment would change you! :wink:

Not whining, just reflecting upon the obvious. A foul is a foul. I spit the truth.

The truth being Michigan has never lost a game in the history of it's program that couldn't be blamed by officials, a timekeeper, or a crowned field? :roll:

Are you really going to go back to that tired old argument? Have there been controversial calls in a number of Michigan's close games? Yes there have. We've been there before with this conversation and I've heard you acknowledge Michigan getting screwed before. Have all of their losses been blamed on that? No. Have all of their wins been ones they deserved? No. You know the #1 Michigan fan doesn't go there so you're simply being ridiculous.

You know the #1 Michigan fan doesn't go there so you're simply being ridiculous.

Are you talking about Muhme?



oooooooooh, low blow! haha :smilebox:

Sorry I just got back into this thread. So much going on.

Sorry nothing but my opinion and my opinion is good enough for me.

Art

lol...

Had to give this a HUGE bump

I found a little ditty online - at the website for the Sun Belt Conference. I think this should put to rest the question of whether or not Michigan fan reaction to the officiating can be called whining or not. This isn't a quote from some message board at another school - this is officially put out on the conference website by the Conference Commissioner.

http://www.sunbeltsports.org/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22245&SPID=1817&DB_OEM_ID=4100&ATCLID=227126


Sun Belt Conference Responds to Alamo Bowl Inquiries
Courtesy: Sun Belt Conference
Release: 01/24/2006

Response to questions concerning Sun Belt Officials in the 2005 Alamo Bowl

When we first became a football conference in 2001, we knew that credibility was an important part of the equation for success. We have invested in football officiating, and we go to extremes to evaluate our officials both physically and mentally before they go on the field. Our continuing education of officials is in some ways ahead of the normal procedures in Division I.

Because of the thoroughness we show in the training and evaluation of our officials, we have had incredible success in post-season bowl games. The satisfaction of the participating teams with the quality of our crews working the Independence Bowl, Liberty Bowl, Silicon Valley Bowl, Peach Bowl and this year’s Champs Bowl has been very rewarding.

We took the criticisms of our officials who were working this year’s Alamo Bowl seriously. We have taken extra measures to determine if our crew was correct, and if not, what could be done to make sure that we improved. We have had the tape of the game not only evaluated by our Coordinator of Officials (which is our normal practice) but also an independent IA Coordinator not involved with this game and also an active NFL official. The report of their evaluation is below.

Before you read the report, I think it behooves all of us to be reminded that officiating is not an exact science. The post season has shown us that at every level, including the BCS and the NFL. Just as every play doesn’t score a touchdown and every defense doesn’t stop the opponent for a loss, there has never been a perfectly officiated game. It is the nature of working with humans.

Recently, USA Today published the average number of fouls called by various leagues, and the Sun Belt Conference led the nation in average penalties called per game. I was not surprised, given the resources we commit on a regular basis to officiating. Our officials are a little ahead of our game, but the play is catching up fast. Our issue is not the number of penalties called or if our officials’ shoes are polished to high gloss, our emphasis is “did they get it right?” That will continue to be the emphasis in all our sports.

There is much in this report to be proud of, and there is also much in this report that gives us room for improvement. We will now use this as a learning experience and continue to try to improve the quality of our officiating program. We remain very confident in the abilities of our officials.

Wright Waters

Commissioner

2005 Alamo Bowl

Summary of Officials’ Evaluation

The following summary consists of information from three reviews of the Officials’ Performance in the 2005 Alamo Bowl. The bowl game was officiated by a crew of officials from the Sun Belt Conference. The three reviewers were as follows: the Coordinator of Officials from the Sun Belt Conference; the Coordinator of Officials from another I-A conference who was independent of all conferences involved; and an active Referee from the National Football League.

There were 19 fouls called during the game and 16 were enforced. Three fouls were graded as “correct pick ups” by the three reviewers. Two of the fouls that were picked up were Delay of Game penalties called against the offense. On both occasions, the offense called time-out just as the Back Judge was flagging the infraction. On both occasions, a time-out was correctly awarded in place of a five-yard Delay of Game penalty. The third foul that was picked up was a Defensive Pass Interference penalty called by the head linesman. The penalty was picked up because the receiver contacted the ball behind the line of scrimmage, thus no Defensive Pass Interference call can be made because the ball never crossed the line of scrimmage. The Line Judge (the official responsible for determining if the ball was behind or beyond the line of scrimmage) correctly ruled that the ball was indeed behind the line of scrimmage.

The other 16 foul calls were all graded as correct calls by the three reviewers. (See attached foul report.) There were four calls/rulings in the game that were graded as incorrect rulings by one or more of the reviewers. These calls are as follows:

Quarter 1 – 9:23: Head linesman rules the runner is down. The ball comes out just prior to the runner’s knee touches the ground. All three reviewers agree that this was an incorrect ruling. The runner recovered his own fumble so there was no impact on the game from this call. The TV announcers criticized the Replay Official for not reviewing the play. Replay guidelines do not allow the Replay Crew to review a fumble play once the runner has been ruled down by the officials on the field. Since the runner was ruled down, there can be no “over-turn.” Actions by the Replay Official were correct.

Quarter 2 – 1:11: Contact on the Michigan receiver on an under-thrown pass. Incomplete pass ruled by the FJ and LJ. Officials ruled the contact was incidental and did not warrant a foul call. Ball falls short (after QB is hit as he throws) and the receiver comes back for the ball and contacts the defender who does not realize the pass is under-thrown. All three reviewers felt that defensive pass interference should have been called on this play.

Quarter 4 – 10:10: Punt receiver is contacted just as he catches the ball. BJ correctly ruled a Kick Catch Interference foul on a play almost identical at the 15:00 mark of the 4th quarter. All three reviewers felt that another Kick Catch Interference call should have been called on this play.

Quarter 4 – 2:39: 4th down pass play near the goal line. A bang-bang pass play that was ruled as an incomplete pass by the crew. The sideline view looked like a good defensive play. The end zone view at slow-motion, frame-by-frame speed showed the defender’s hand and arm on the receivers back. Two reviewers did not have regular speed view of the play from the end zone – only the slow motion replay. Both thought Defensive Pass Interference should have been called. The Sun Belt Coordinator of Officials had a “live” view of the play from the end zone (basically the same view as the deep officials’) and felt the “no call” was appropriate because the pass was behind the receiver and there was some question that the movement of the receiver to reach back for the pass caused the “turning action” and not the contact by the defender. This was one of those plays that could go either way and would make half the people happy and the other half upset.



The release also contains details on how at least one Michigan time-out should have been re-instated, but blamed the non-review of the TD on equipment malfunction.

So is the Sun Belt Conference Commissioner and the game refs admission of bad calls that completely changed the game still an example of Michigan whining?

So is the Sun Belt Conference Commissioner and the game refs admission of bad calls that completely changed the game still an example of Michigan whining?

No, but the fact that you posted it here is a perfect example of Michigan whining. What did you hope to accomplish by posting this?

I just wanted to piss you off and then criticize your uncomfortably low-riding pants.

I just wanted to piss you off and then criticize your uncomfortably low-riding pants.

"Do not Fuck with us." [smilie=antlers.gif]

The release also contains details on how at least one Michigan time-out should have been re-instated

This exact same thing happened in the last second play MSU-UM game. MSU should have been given a TO back after UM had 12 men on the field. I've never heard you acknowledge that when we've argued about this in the past.

Go ahead and post a link to where the commisioner and the game officials admit the blatant mistake (do you understand the difference between that and a college chat site?) and I'll acknowledge whatever you want me to.

Okay, seeing that it was in 2001 I might have trouble finding a link.

But, these are facts. It was written about and there is no way to dispute it. This is what happened. There is no room for opinion here because you can look it up in the rule book.

MSU ran a play, Michigan had 12 men on the field. The second the play finished, MSU called a timeout. The officials announced the penalty. MSU coaches said they didn't want the timeout then. The officials did not come over, they still gave them the timeout. Had MSU saved that timeout, we never would have had the controversey over the last second.

A team has the option of not taking the timeout if a penalty is called on the play. You can look that up. At the same time, what the hell are we talking about haha. We're pathetic. [smilie=duh.gif]

So wait, you're acknowledging that State didn't really win that game....but they would have won it in a LEGIT manner had they gotten a timeout? And all this time you've said Michigan fans always go back to whining about that game. To now find out that you agree that there wasn't any time on the clock - you must, otherwise you wouldn't be arguing a game that is in the record books as a victory for your boys. See how you trapped yourself a bit there?

So wait, you're acknowledging that State didn't really win that game....but they would have won it in a LEGIT manner had they gotten a timeout? And all this time you've said Michigan fans always go back to whining about that game. To now find out that you agree that there wasn't any time on the clock - you must, otherwise you wouldn't be arguing a game that is in the record books as a victory for your boys. See how you trapped yourself a bit there?

Jethro, why do you have so much trouble reading my posts? PLEASE POST MY QUOTE WHERE I SAID THAT THERE WASN'T ANY TIME. My point was that we could have used a timeout instead of rushing to spike. Here is what I said once again:

Had MSU saved that timeout, we never would have had the controversey over the last second.
When the hell did I say that MSU didn't win the game? I said there was controversey. There was controversey because all the Michigan fans bitched about it. Why would I make the claim that they didn't win, when they did?

Either you didn't completely read my post or you are REALLY stretching to put words in my mouth.

No, you never did say that, but it's not hard to read between the lines. You wouldn't still be bringing up timeouts that never took place if you didn't feel a little shady about the game. It makes no sense. Otherwise you just whine when you win AND when you lose if it involves Michigan. Hahaha, low blow, but I had to take it.

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