For the record, how many picks do the Lions have and who should the Lions take with their first rounder? A.J. Hawk? Ferguson? Someone not a WR?

Here's the draft breakdown I did.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/c_hanes101/other/2006draft.jpg

In terms of who they will pick, it all depends on their spot. If they could climb to 3rd (unlikely, but somewhat possible), I think they take Ferguson. If they are in the 4-7 range, I think they take the DE from NCstate. If they beat NO and drop down to the 10-12 range I'm not sure who they take.

Anything but WR or RB is good really.

I really hope Vince Young comes out.

NYJ, NO, Oakland and Baltimore are probably the only teams in the top 10, besides the Lions, who could go QB with their pick.

Somebody could trade up with one of the other teams to take Leinart/Young, of course.

The Lions just HAVE to lose out the last two games, it's really imperative.

They REALLY have to lose to the Saints, so that being the case, they'll probably win.

I'll take Leinart or Young, I don't care which one.

All this assumes that we don't sign or trade for a vet QB.

Aaron Brooks anyone? Griese? Brees? Rivers? Favre? (lol)

I think the Jets will go for Lienart. If they lose, the SF/Houston winner will pass them on SOS. Bush will go at #1 and Lienart to NYJ I think.

I could see NO taking Young with Brooks on the way out. But if they beat us they might not have a chance at him. Oakland would also snag Young too I think. Remember SOS can change. If GB/Minny/Chicago lose, it weakens our SOS and improves our pick.

Kitna. The Bengals have no need for him anymore. Brees if he's available and affordable.

As for picks, the Lions really need D'Brickashaw Ferguson to fall to them. He's someone who can contribute right away, and if they can get the offensive line stable, things will start to fall into place.

I'd like to see Joey back (we can't replace 2 QB's) to compete. Worst case he's a good backup.

My ideal would be a trade for Brees, but he'd probably cost us a first rounder (a future would be fine, but we need this year's for an OT). If not, maybe a trade for Griese (they are sticking with Simms). If either happened, Joey would have to take a pay cut. I'm hoping we could move Fernado Bryant to ease the salary cap hit we'd take by trading for a QB with a higher salary.

Backup plans would be Kitna, Brooks (if the price isn't high).

Who cares? It's a lost cause. No matter who we draft, we will suck.

I don't see the Leo's taking a rookie QB. Millen needs to WIN NOW, and drafting another rook makes this tough to do. Sign a Kitna type, trade for Brees if you can get him for Rogers/Picks. Draft a fucking offensive lineman that isn't a pussy. I'm a Michigan fan, but Backus absolutely sucks as a pro. We need a new LT and hopefully that will be Brick.

What we need is a bunch of guys who love to play the game and will always give it their all and appreciate being able to play, not a bunch of guys who make a mockery of the game.

(also see Pistons)

I hope they keep Backus and move him to LG. Draft Ferguson and cut Demulling

LT - Ferguson
LG - Backus
C - Riola
RG - Woody
RT - Butler

Backup - Kosier

That isn't too bad.

Knowing the Lions, they will win the last two games and pick 14th. If we stay where we are, I want the DE from Boston College, Mathias Kiwanukia (sp?)

Perhaps the better question is not who we want the Lions to draft, but who Millen will draft. That is a perplexing question. What position do you think he wants, at least? Offense, defense? We know we need an offensive lineman, but he'll probably skip that opportunity. As much as I didn't expect us to take Williams last year, somehow I wasn't surprised when it happened. More like a "you've got to be kidding me." I hope I don't have that same feeling again.

He'll take the best non WR-RB available IMO. If that's Brickshaw, Hawk, Williams (i think that is the top DE), whatever. Any of those guys would be an immediate help.

O line for sure...too many good QB's comming available. Pretty good depth elsware. We have a good linebacking corps, if they can stay healthy.

PS....Good to see y'all again.

O line for sure...too many good QB's comming available. Pretty good depth elsware. We have a good linebacking corps, if they can stay healthy.

PS....Good to see y'all again.

Welcome Stone Cold. Thin Ice. PMs. All that good stuff.

This year's O-Line class appears to be deep enough that Detroit could pull something similar to San Fran last year, getting Baas in the 2nd round and Adam Snyder (Go Ducks) in the 3rd round. Both currently start for that team. If that happens, Mario Williams or Kiwanuka are the guys. Williams especially is touted as a physical freak, and Kiwanuka I believe used to play basketball.

This year's O-Line class appears to be deep enough that Detroit could pull something similar to San Fran last year, getting Baas in the 2nd round and Adam Snyder (Go Ducks) in the 3rd round. Both currently start for that team. If that happens, Mario Williams or Kiwanuka are the guys. Williams especially is touted as a physical freak, and Kiwanuka I believe used to play basketball.

That's what I've hear too. Williams, OT, LB would be a nice first 3 rounds. I still think we need an eventual replacement to Holmes this year.

This year's O-Line class appears to be deep enough that Detroit could pull something similar to San Fran last year, getting Baas in the 2nd round and Adam Snyder (Go Ducks) in the 3rd round. Both currently start for that team. If that happens, Mario Williams or Kiwanuka are the guys. Williams especially is touted as a physical freak, and Kiwanuka I believe used to play basketball.

That's what I've hear too. Williams, OT, LB would be a nice first 3 rounds. I still think we need an eventual replacement to Holmes this year.

Understandable, but while you could have Mario Williams, there's a chance A.J. Hawk could fall to the Lions. Who do you pick between those two?

I hope they keep Backus and move him to LG. Draft Ferguson and cut Demulling

LT - Ferguson
LG - Backus
C - Riola
RG - Woody
RT - Butler

Backup - Kosier

That isn't too bad.

With the exception of Raiola, Woody, and Butler, I agree.

Not too shabby.

And yes, Woody belongs on the sucky list, probably more than Butler.

I just wish the Lions would take a cue from the Pistons, and instead of picking up big names who are well past their prime, for no reason other than that they are big names (see: Woody, Pollard, Garcia, etc.), they start looking at guys who are approx. 25 years old, and just starting to break out and make a name for themselves, see CB, Rip & Ben.

God damn. Joe D. is only what, 20 miles away from Ford Field, and they can't see what he's doing in Auburn Hills and HOW HE'S DOING IT?!?!?!?!?!?

This draft will be key for both the Ravens and the Buccaneers. Both are my teams.

The Ravens need a QB, depending on if Boller keeps up how he played against GB(very doubtful). We also need a DT. Gregg, Kemoeatu, and Edwards are getting pounded all over the field. I'm pulluing for Haloti Ngata.

The Buccaneers need offensive line help. They also need to draft a QB. I'm not sold on any of our 3 QB's. I'm pulling for Brady Quinn, but I think he'll stay at Notre Dame for another year though.

This draft will be key for both the Ravens and the Buccaneers. Both are my teams.

The Ravens need a QB, depending on if Boller keeps up how he played against GB(very doubtful). We also need a DT. Gregg, Kemoeatu, and Edwards are getting pounded all over the field. I'm pulluing for Haloti Ngata.

The Buccaneers need offensive line help. They also need to draft a QB. I'm not sold on any of our 3 QB's. I'm pulling for Brady Quinn, but I think he'll stay at Notre Dame for another year though.

Welcome Kdawg. We've been waiting for you. :)

Ngata will make some team cream themselves if he falls to the second round.

Ngata would be taken with the Ravens' first rounder. Right now, I think it's gonna be somewhere between 5-7. Hopefully he lasts. He's the missing piece on the defensive side.

For a lot of teams, a 340-pound DT that can bench press a PT Cruiser 20 times is a needed missing piece. I wouldn't mind seeing him on the Lions.

I think they have bigger concerns than DT. Rogers and Big Daddy look pretty strong up the middle. I think they need o-line help, qb help, and a lock down corner opposite bly.

As long as we don't draft a RB, WR, DL, or LB in the first round then I'm a happy man.

Offensive line is a MUST! Butler is good at pass protection(but not against the run) and is still a project), Woody is good, Backus is ass, Raiola is Southern ass, and I don't even know who play the other guard spot. We need some major help there.

QB can be found in free agency. There'll be some good guys like Brooks, Kitna and Brees. I wouldn't even be that mad if we kept Harrington at a lower price.

I really hope Vince Young comes out.

NYJ, NO, Oakland and Baltimore are probably the only teams in the top 10, besides the Lions, who could go QB with their pick.

Somebody could trade up with one of the other teams to take Leinart/Young, of course.

The Lions just HAVE to lose out the last two games, it's really imperative.

They REALLY have to lose to the Saints, so that being the case, they'll probably win.

I'll take Leinart or Young, I don't care which one.

All this assumes that we don't sign or trade for a vet QB.

Aaron Brooks anyone? Griese? Brees? Rivers? Favre? (lol)

I will shoot someone if we draft a QB this time around even if it's Leinhart or Young. If we draft them, then next season is just another throw away season.

And Vince Young is not first round material.

Woody is good


He is?

I just wish the Lions would take a cue from the Pistons, and instead of picking up big names who are well past their prime, for no reason other than that they are big names (see: Woody, Pollard, Garcia, etc.), they start looking at guys who are approx. 25 years old

Woody was 26 going on 27 when we signed him...I still think that if we have a good year, you will see the real Woody.

Just a couple of things to think about.

If the Lions draft a QB it better not be until late in the draft. As someone said, if we draft a QB in the first round, we are rebuilding.

I am not a fan of Young's. Someone said that if Young was half of Micheal Vick he would be a great QB. That is kind of wrong because half of Vick is McMike. Young would better served playing WR in the NFL. He would be scary good, if he can catch the ball. He plays in a crap conference. He has never had to try and read a D....he just throws to someone or runs, no reading of D is needed. BTW I hate his throwing motion and think he is going to have huge problems. Young to me is a little more atheltic version of Andre Ware and we all know how that ended up.

Secondly, the Lions biggest needs are OT, DE, LB, CB, vet WR, OG, QB, TE, S, DT.

The Lions biggest problem since Millen has taken over is coaching. We have had absolute horrible coaching who does not match his scheme to his personal. I personally could see Backus coming back and doing fine with the right scheme and an upgrade at LG (Hutch could be had. Sea might not be able to afford Shaun and Hutch both).

I want the next coach to come in and do what Leyland did with Dmitri. Tell Woody if he wants to play next year, lost another 20-30 pounds. If Woody can get down to 325-330, he would be a monster at guard again.

I think the Lions will be picking around 10 and if Joey Thomas of Wisconsin comes out, I would love to see them get him. He has a mean streak to bookend with Butler is going to be good. I then want the Lions to address the MLB role. Holmes has 1 more year before he is done. Lehman needs to take over for Davis. Who could not tackle Refrigerator Perry.

Agree or disagree, if the Lions take a QB or RB in the 1st round. I wont be watching them next year. I will be taking a break from the Lions.


Art

Win or lose, we always fuck things up somehow.

And Vince Young is not first round material.

Good call. Young is a fantastic athlete, but not a pocket passer. His delivery is slightly sidearmed, a habit which must be corrected if he is to pass over the taller, more athletic NFL D lines.

Now, I'm a USC homer, and I like Leinart, but if Brady Quinn decides to add his name, look for him to go higher than Matt. In just one year with Charlie Weiss, he's made an expotential leap in performance -- and Weiss is employing a watered down pro set O. O Coordinaters all over the NFL would love to get their hands on this fella.

Bush will go first. He's simply the most versatile player in the draft, and can fill numerous roles (kick off and punt returns, single back, dump pass option).

Leinart will go top five, probably four since SF and Texas already have their QB's, and they're not going to blow a top selection on a back-up a la San Diego.

Also look for Jerome Harrison from Wassu. Dude ran for 1900 yards in a top conference. He's smallish, but backs slightly south of six feet have had a history of owning NFL D's.

I think the Big 10 ramblers are overrated (sorry), but Michael Robinson of PSU might make the first round on his athleticism alone -- just like how Matt Jones made it.

Vince Young MUST have an outstanding Rose Bowl to make a First Round spot. Otherwise, he will drop to Third. His little crybaby bitch job after the Heisman did him no favors, either.

As for Detroit, I think their picks will depend on who stays as head coach. If, say, somebody like Mike Martz comes on board, they'll go for more speed and neglect the D. If Jauron stays, the opposite might probably occur.


Okay....now where's JS to rip me a new one???

Mike Martz will not be the next head coach of the Lions.

Lions right now will pick from 6-14 depending on next week, cannot get a higher pick and cannot get a lower pick.

Vince Young will go in the top 10 if he comes out this year, no matter what he does in the Rose Bowl. Vince Young is 1st round material. He has potential and teams draft on Potential alone. I can see Green taking Young in Arizona and that would be a great place for Young to go. I personally think he is better off at WR, but I still think Vick would be better off as a WR.

Quick can anyone name me one running QB who is going to make the playoffs? All the top teams this year and in most years past have pocket QBs as their QB, sure you will get a decent scrambler, but not anyone like Cunningham or Vick, which is the main reason I am not sold on Young. He plays in a horrible conference and will get hurt if he tries to run ala Vick.

As far as ND goes...Quinn is not as accurate as he needs to be. I have my doubts about him. He played a god awful schedule. I mean other than Michigan who was playing without its best RB, best OL, Breaston was injured so forth, but yet barely beat Michigan and Quinn was not very good against that Michigan D. They lost to a pretty bad MSU team. Sure they took USC to the waning moments, but I think this USC team is overrated. I mean ifyou listen to ESPN....if Jesus was QB and he had his 12 disciples playing against USC, USC would win by 40 points. I mean for christ sakes, USC has won only 1 outright championship and this year's team is not as good as last year's team.

See how good UT and USC are when they play each other. At least UT has played a team with a good D in OSU....I am still waiting for USC to play a team with a respectable D. Neither USC or UT go undefeated in the Big 10 or SEC.


Art

I would just love it if the Lions could get Jimmy Williams and Darryl Tapp

I am not so sure Reggie Bush will go first, especially if the Texans have the 1st pick. They already have Domanick Davis and they just signed him to an extension too. I think they will either trade down for multiple picks or draft Ferguson. They have too many holes on their roster (not to mention a good RB) to justify drafting Bush.

I personally think that Bush is going to the 49ers. They drafted their "franchise" QB last year who also happens to be a teammate of Bush in highschool.

Also keep in mind that there are going to be an awful lot of good RB's in FA this year (Ahman Green, Shaun Alexander, Edgerrin James, DeShaun Foster, Jamal Lewis, Michael Bennett, Najeh Davenport) and that could play a role in the draft.

Also Pittsburgh WILL draft Lendale White, assuming he is still on the board when they pick. Bettis is probably going to retire and Duce Staley hasn't been able to stay healthy. So I think they will go after White to pair him with Willie Parker.

Leinart won't make it past the Saints. They're done with Brooks and Bouman isn't the answer. They have Adrian McPherson, but if they have a chance at Leinart they'll take him and figure things out later. McPherson will evetually switch positions if he really wants to play.

I would just love it if the Lions could get Jimmy Williams and Darryl Tapp

I don't remember who Tapp is, but if the Lions keep winning like they have been, Williams might be a Lion. CB is looking like one deep position this year.

God knows they need a compitent corner opposite Dre Bly.

I would prefer a DE who can rush the passer over another CB.

OT/DE. A good rushing DE would make any CB look better. Rogers requires a double team and Cody looks like a keeper. Thus if we can get a speed rusher on the end, he could have 10 sacks as a rookie.


Art

I would just love it if the Lions could get Jimmy Williams and Darryl Tapp

I don't remember who Tapp is, but if the Lions keep winning like they have been, Williams might be a Lion. CB is looking like one deep position this year.

Tapp is from Va Tech. The guy is an animal with an incredible motor. If you watch their bowl game against Louisville make sure you check him out. #55 I have a feeling they might be able to get him early second round. I would love to see them grab Williams with the first then grab tapp with the second.

I think Williams will be a better corner than Bly. He has the size to beat up on receivers plus he has enough speed to stay with them. If you watch any of his game this year he does everything for Va Tech. The guy is an amazing talent. He will be a slower more physical version of the best corner in the world...DEANGELO HALL

Vince Young MUST have an outstanding Rose Bowl to make a First Round spot. Otherwise, he will drop to Third.

That is really a horribly un-educated statement. WTF are you basing this on? He has sick athleticism, and a cannon for an arm. He has already proven that he is not a fluke QB by making big time throws. If Matt Jones can get into the 1st on pure athleticism, Vince Young, who shows as much if not more, is an absolute lock for top 10. If you want to put some money where your ignorance is, make the wager and I'll take it in a second.

I am not so sure Reggie Bush will go first, especially if the Texans have the 1st pick. They already have Domanick Davis and they just signed him to an extension too. I think they will either trade down for multiple picks or draft Ferguson. They have too many holes on their roster (not to mention a good RB) to justify drafting Bush.

I too don't believe it a lock that the Texans will take Bush at 1, instead maybe choosing to trade down and fill a TON of needs. But if they do not trade down, Bush is the choice regardless of who is on there team. Bush is a once in a decade athlete that changes the complexion of your team. You don't pass on him, unless you get a Tomlinson/Brees package in return. For those of you confused with that last reference, it's what the Chargers got form the Falcons for trading the #1 pick when the Falcons took Vick.

I think the Jets will go for Lienart. If they lose, the SF/Houston winner will pass them on SOS. Bush will go at #1 and Lienart to NYJ I think.

I could see NO taking Young with Brooks on the way out. But if they beat us they might not have a chance at him. Oakland would also snag Young too I think. Remember SOS can change. If GB/Minny/Chicago lose, it weakens our SOS and improves our pick.

I hope someone takes Vince Young before we get a chance, I don't even want the Lions to have a chance of drafting the next Andre "can't miss" Ware. At some point in time the league will learn that running QBs with weak arms not named Jeff Garcia rarely have any success.

I would just love it if the Lions could get Jimmy Williams and Darryl Tapp

I don't remember who Tapp is, but if the Lions keep winning like they have been, Williams might be a Lion. CB is looking like one deep position this year.

I think the Lions would love a speedster like Santonio Holmes, just in case the others don't pan out. :oops:

I don't see the need for a defensive linemen. James Hall is a great pass rusher who had bad injuries this year and Edwards continues to be misused.

A MLB would be pretty nice, though.

I think more than anything the most important part going into this draft is the coach. A guy like Al Saunders will push O-Line, a defensive coach wants to shore up the D. Personally, I would trade down to about 20 or so and pick up a late 2nd in the process. Some team around there will see Vince Young on the board and jump up to get him. Or we can draft the DE from Boston College, kiwaniuka. Then a corner in the second, a MLB in the second, and then a TE. JUST DONT DRAFT A QB/WR

And Vince Young has a cannon arm?

ROFLCOPTER

He throws lobs and floaters.

I don't see the need for a defensive linemen. James Hall is a great pass rusher who had bad injuries this year and Edwards continues to be misused.

I disagree. Hall is a very good end. But we need a dominant end on the other side. If the QB is running for his life, it doesn't matter who is in our secondary. Edwards is decent, but not very good. He should be used as a sub only or possibly as a blitzing LB at times too. Edwards should actually be on a team playing a 3-4 defense as a pass rushing LB (like Swilling was). I wouldn't mind trading him to one of those teams for a pick we could use on an extra OL.

Also Pittsburgh WILL draft Lendale White, assuming he is still on the board when they pick. Bettis is probably going to retire and Duce Staley hasn't been able to stay healthy. So I think they will go after White to pair him with Willie Parker.

I bet they (Steelers) go CB. I think Bettis will be back.

And what is with all this "if they take a QB, they are rebuilding" stuff you guys are spewing?

Newsflash: THEY NEED TO REBUILD!!!

This is not a 11-5 team we are talking about here.

They have about 19 free agents, and IMO, they need to let about 15 of them go. That lockerroom is poisoned.

New coaches, new QBs, basically, new team.

This is a rebuilding job if I've ever seen one. Let's get on with it already.

Updated for the games this past weekend:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/c_hanes101/other/2006draft.jpg

Interesting how the SF win dropped them out of the Bush race.

I don't see the need for a defensive linemen. James Hall is a great pass rusher who had bad injuries this year and Edwards continues to be misused.

I disagree. Hall is a very good end. But we need a dominant end on the other side. If the QB is running for his life, it doesn't matter who is in our secondary. Edwards is decent, but not very good. He should be used as a sub only or possibly as a blitzing LB at times too. Edwards should actually be on a team playing a 3-4 defense as a pass rushing LB (like Swilling was). I wouldn't mind trading him to one of those teams for a pick we could use on an extra OL.

I wouldn't mind picking up another dominant DT actually. Haloti Ngata lining up next to Rogers? The push from those two would be huge and would require enough help in the offensive backfield that we could free up a safety or OLB to blitz regularly. At that point even Redding and/or Cody would do at the other end just to keep a RB pinned in the backfield and keep them from picking up the blitz.

The Lions are not that far from being a playoff team. They need a coach who can get the most out of them. I doubt we have had a coach get 50% out of most of the players.

They need 1-2 players on the Oline, a 2nd CB and a rush DE. Those things will get the Lions into the playoffs next season.

We need a MLB, but I think Holmes has one more year in him. I like what Woods has brought to the OLB spot and we could always put Edwards in that spot too if need be.

I just want Joey to have one year where they dont run the WCO and Joey is given time by the Oline to do some stuff and him with even an average running game. I am not convinced that he can be an NFL QB, but i am not convinced that he cannot either. No QB in the league could have been successful in Detroit with the way things have been the last 5 years.

Art

I'd like a MLB too, but I can wait a year on that. If Holmes has enough in him for a solid year (like this year) we can wait a year. Plus there are no Urlachers there this year anyway. Tons of great OLB's, but no MLB's really. If we could get our OL straight, get a CB and DE maybe, we could be in the wildcard hunt and hopefully fill the remaining couple needs next year.

Art,

You have no idea about Harrington, by your own admission, but at the same time you say that a few minor tweaks make this a playoff team?

There is a disconnect there, IMO.

Making all those changes and leaving the QB situation as status quo is the recipe for another disappointing season IMO.

Do you really want another year of our home stadium booing the QB? Wouldn't you rather be excited about our "leader"?

Every Lions analyst agrees that the Lions lack leadership on the offensive side. Who will that leader be in 2006?

Any chance we go after a guy like Deangelo Williams? Or is it probable that he is taken before 10?

Making all those changes and leaving the QB situation as status quo is the recipe for another disappointing season IMO.

Do you really want another year of our home stadium booing the QB? Wouldn't you rather be excited about our "leader"?

Every Lions analyst agrees that the Lions lack leadership on the offensive side. Who will that leader be in 2006?

I think Joey still has a chance here. I would bring in a vet QB (with more to offer than Garcia did) in case, but he might be our best option. I'm not willing to trade first rounders for Schaub, Garrard, Volek/McNair etc. They could be the next Scott Mitchell, who knows. Anyone else out there is as inconsistant as Joey anyway.

A new offense and a decent preseason and you never know. His teammates might be back in his corner. As it stands, I think the WR's were in his corner anyway. It doesn't matter what the fans think. If we win they will cheer anyone.


Any chance we go after a guy like Deangelo Williams? Or is it probable that he is taken before 10?

You're talking about the RB, right? There is no way I spend a first rounder (or any pick really) on a RB this year. Jones is a top 10-15 RB IMO (when you take OL's and offenses out of the equation). WR or RB we have to avoid in the first few rounds, period. If I see one WR or RB taken before 2 OL, DE, DT, CB, FS, MLB, TE, QB I will scream.

I understand what you are saying, but the problem was scheme. You dont take a guy like Kosier who was an above average guard in Indy, bring him to Detroit and have him be terrible without it being the coaching/scheme.

The reason Marty nor Mooch liked Joey was because they knew he wasnt really a WCO type of QB. He is more of a KC or Rams type QB, who throws it down the field, not has to try and dink and dump all day.

I just want someone to name one person who could have done well in Detroit's offense the past 4-5 years? Name me anyone.

Manning, sorry but if you saw the SD game where they got so much pressure on Manning and he would throw like Joey, short hop people, overthrow WR and have balls hit off the TE/WR hands and go for an INT. The reason was they made Manning uncomfortable, which is the story of Joey's life. Vick might be able to do something, but if his WR drop the balls, then he becomes nothing more than a RB who is going to play half a season because he is getting hit so much.

This teams needs a coach more than anything. The Lions have some good talent, but the coaches have wasted it, by babying them and not making anyone but Joey responsible for what happened. Joey was Mooch's scapegoat, hence Garcia coming in and showing everyone that he sucked too.

BTW Garcia made horrible decisions, but Brooks would make Garcia look smart in his decisions.

I just dont see anyone out there that will come in and get the job done and I want to see Joey at least be given a legit shot with a coach who makes everyone responsible not just the QB.

You think the fans are going to be boo Joey, but I believe after Joey got benched and has played better in a small part because the Oline has played better the last half of a season. Jeff just cant throw downfield.

I could go on and on, but to finish up...the Lions are a good coach/coordinator plus 4 players from being a playoff team.

BTW TB should have been a win...bad ref call. Carolina could have been a win...again bad ref call late in the game. GB late in the game horrible call. Right there is 3 wins that makes the lines 8-7 right now, sure that might not be playoffs, but 3-4 players, DE, CB and 2 OL make the Lions a playoff team. Of course they need to make sure the refs dont fuck them over too.

Art

I understand what you are saying, but the problem was scheme. You dont take a guy like Kosier who was an above average guard in Indy, bring him to Detroit and have him be terrible without it being the coaching/scheme.


sorry to be picky, but I think you mean Demulling. Kosier was from SF.

By the way, just to be clear, I'm posting a list of the first rounders I think would be acceptable Lions picks.

Mathias Kiwanuka, DE, Boston College
Jimmy Williams, CB, Virginia Tech
Eric Winston, OT, Miami (FL)
Haloti Ngata, DT, Oregon
Ahmad Brooks, ILB, Virginia

Those are all based on picking at #10. I don't see us moving up to take Ferguson or Leinart. I don't think Bush or Williams are the right idea for our biggest needs. I don't want Vince Young. If Brady Quinn declares I'm willing to take him.

Otherwise, if they trade down, I would be ok with Tamba Hali, Marcus McNeill or maybe Darnell Bing. I'm not excited about any of the OLB, nor do I think it's a pressing need. I like guys like Abdul Hodge for MLB or Gabe Watson at DT, but I'm seeing a lot of things that make me think we might be able to get them in the 2nd round.

Jethro I could live with every one of those picks, but only 2 or 3 at the #10 pick. 2 i could see around 15-20. You definitely have the right ideal about what we need though. Except for Ngata....Cody is a player and we need DE not DT.


Art

And yeah I meant Demulling. Thanks for the pick up.


Art

Jethro I could live with every one of those picks, but only 2 or 3 at the #10 pick. 2 i could see around 15-20. You definitely have the right ideal about what we need though. Except for Ngata....Cody is a player and we need DE not DT.

I agree. Cody seems to be a nice compliment to Rogers in the middle. You should add Mario Williams to that list. I'm hoping he falls to us. I wouldn't touch Winston at #10 either. He's been hurt and he could be had at the end of the first I think. I'd like to see us trade a future first to move into the end of the first for an OT (with Mario or Jimmy Williams with the #10 pick).

It would be awesome if Vince Young came out.

We'd have Andre Ware(Young), Rashan Salaam(Reggie Bush) and Ryan Leaf(Matt Leinart) all in the SAME DRAFT!

If the Lions pick Young or any offensive skill player in the first 3 rounds, I am going to come blow up the Lions HQ. But since I live so far away, i think someone will beat me too it.


Art

My take on Ngata or any other DT is that adding pop to an already-strong part of the team could change it from strong to dominant. Besides, I think Cody could play DE in certain situations.
Either way, I think if they commit to the Offensive line and the defense in the draft this year, it could be huge for them. That's like the infrastructure of a good team. At least one OL in the first 2 rounds, with 2 or more defensive players in day one (the more would imply trading for additional picks).

By the way, just to be clear, I'm posting a list of the first rounders I think would be acceptable Lions picks.

Mathias Kiwanuka, DE, Boston College
Jimmy Williams, CB, Virginia Tech
Eric Winston, OT, Miami (FL)
Haloti Ngata, DT, Oregon
Ahmad Brooks, ILB, Virginia

Those are all based on picking at #10. I don't see us moving up to take Ferguson or Leinart. I don't think Bush or Williams are the right idea for our biggest needs. I don't want Vince Young. If Brady Quinn declares I'm willing to take him.

Otherwise, if they trade down, I would be ok with Tamba Hali, Marcus McNeill or maybe Darnell Bing. I'm not excited about any of the OLB, nor do I think it's a pressing need. I like guys like Abdul Hodge for MLB or Gabe Watson at DT, but I'm seeing a lot of things that make me think we might be able to get them in the 2nd round.

4 of those 5 picks I would completely agree with. (I don't agree with Winston as a top-10 pick but only because of Miami taking Vernon Carey a couple years back and he hasn't done jack shit.) In fact, with Ngata's injury in the Holiday Bowl (fucking bullshit fucking Sooners fucking suck fucking Leaf's little fucking brother fuck him), the Lions may be able to draft Kiwanuka in the first round and trade up for Ngata (or another CB). That would make the D-line, potentially: Kiwanuka, Rogers, Ngata, Cody.

Oh, and don't forget Mario Williams of NC State. He's a consensus top-10.

I watched Kiwanku a couple times this year. This last time against Boise St. made not a fan.

He reminds me of Kalimba so much it is scary. Very stiff, doesnt get off blocks enough to stop the run and rushes the QB too upright.

I would rather have that DE from NCST. Name slips my mind.


Art

Kiwanuka is by far the best defensive lineman in the draft. And, yes, I'm saying he is even better than Haloti Ngata.

Note: I live in Oregon and have seen every college game of Ngata's career, as well as almost every game of Mathias over the past 2 seasons.

Ok, based on the latest info, I want to find a way to get Jimmy Williams in the first and Abdul Hodge in the second. Go offensive lineman lineman in the third, defensive lineman in the fourth, another O-line in the fifth, fullback in the sixth and round out the draft with another LB/DL/OL or TE.

No need to draft fullbacks...you can get the best ones after the draft still. We got that guy from Texas last year as an UDFA. We will take at least 1 QB in this draft. I don't think it will be a first rounder, but any round after that could be a QB.

croyle from alabama will probably be available in the 2nd or 3rd round. he's a smart dude, i wouldnt mind picking him up


btw, i dont know if its been mentioned, but we would have had the #2 pick had we lost to the saints.

We have no 4th round pick this year.


Art

Say no to Croyle!

60% completion % at best, and not very many TD's.

Bad completion %, worse yards and TD's.

Say no to Croyle!

60% completion % at best, and not very many TD's.

Bad completion %, worse yards and TD's.

the bama offense in general is not that good. you can't rate it based on numbers alone. its the head on the shoulders.

You can't draft a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round though. Not with DE/MLB/CB/OL so pressing. If you want to take a flyer on a 5th or 6th rounder (like Brady was) by all means. But not until our other needs are filled first.

Detroit Lions – Jimmy Williams, CB Virginia Tech
Williams can play corner or safety, and would immediately upgrade the Lions secondary. Offensive tackle is a solid possibility here as well.


PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD CAN WE GET THIS GUY!!!!!!!

This would be my Lions big board:

Note: I am assuming Bush, Lienart, Ferguson, Hawk are gone for sure, and probably Young too.

Mario Williams DE NC State
Jimmy Williams CB Va Tech
Haloti Ngata DT Oregon

Those are really the only players I want at #9. I'm hoping we can trade a future first to get an extra first rounder (Denver has an extra pick) since most teams would feel next year's first rounder from us would be better than thier current pick. That way we can grab an OT (Winston maybe) in the 20's and possibly a LB in the 2nd round.

You can't draft a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round though. Not with DE/MLB/CB/OL so pressing. If you want to take a flyer on a 5th or 6th rounder (like Brady was) by all means. But not until our other needs are filled first.

I hope one of these guys is there in the 5th:

Hackney
Gradkowski
Shockley
Olson
Clemens
Whitehurst

You can't draft a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round though. Not with DE/MLB/CB/OL so pressing. If you want to take a flyer on a 5th or 6th rounder (like Brady was) by all means. But not until our other needs are filled first.

I hope one of these guys is there in the 5th:

Hackney
Gradkowski
Shockley
Olson
Clemens
Whitehurst

I'd almost guarantee that every single one of them will be.

And for a serious flyer, how about Brett Elliott from Linfield (Div. III)? :wink:

You can't draft a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round though. Not with DE/MLB/CB/OL so pressing. If you want to take a flyer on a 5th or 6th rounder (like Brady was) by all means. But not until our other needs are filled first.

I hope one of these guys is there in the 5th:

Hackney
Gradkowski
Shockley
Olson
Clemens
Whitehurst

I'd almost guarantee that every single one of them will be.

And for a serious flyer, how about Brett Elliott from Linfield (Div. III)? :wink:


Don't know him.

Also, most of those guys are considered 3rd-4th rounders, Grads maybe 2nd.

I would love the Lions to take a flyer on Shockley in the 5th he is there. I think he can be a WR at the next level.


Art

You can't draft a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round though. Not with DE/MLB/CB/OL so pressing. If you want to take a flyer on a 5th or 6th rounder (like Brady was) by all means. But not until our other needs are filled first.

I hope one of these guys is there in the 5th:

Hackney
Gradkowski
Shockley
Olson
Clemens
Whitehurst

I'd almost guarantee that every single one of them will be.

And for a serious flyer, how about Brett Elliott from Linfield (Div. III)? :wink:


Don't know him.

Also, most of those guys are considered 3rd-4th rounders, Grads maybe 2nd.

Linfield won the D-III championship last year. They're based in McMinnville, Oregon (for TK, the Upper Bumfuck area). He's had a 6,000 yard passing year, an NCAA record. He's projected to be a 7th rounder.

Anyway, I disagree. I'm not sure who Hackney is. Gradkowski's arm is supposedly weak and there's talk as to how much a studly O-line inflated his numbers. Shockley has had is one good year and I know Akili Smith hasn't been forgotten. I think Olson is overrated; without Maurice Drew he had no time in the pocket, and without Lewis at TE he's screwed. Clemens...normally I'd stick up for him, but let's see how that ankle is first. Whitehurst will probably please some team looking for a late-round QB.

Ok, I've hated on the idea of the Lions taking Young if he was there at 8, but tonight's game is absolutely changing my mind. I'm still not sure it would be a good idea, but how can you pass up such an efficient QB with such crazy legs?

Vince Young is a bigger, stronger, more accurate Michael Vick, I would be ecstatic if the Lions were able to end up with him, but after seeing tonight's game, I don't think we have a prayer about him being there at 9.

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/26/268576.jpg
Damn that loss to the Saints!

I don't want to draft another QB in the first round but this game is making me reconsider my stance.

Young is playing outstanding both as a runner and as a pocket passer.

I'm with you H1. I've never seen athlete like Vince Young. :shock: :shock: :shock: He single handedly beat the most talented team in the history of College Football! IF WE WOULD HAVE LOST TO THE SAINTS, HE'S OURS!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAH! :banghead: :angryfire: :banghead:

vince young just went to number 1

leinart 2

bush dropped to 3

Young won't be drafted #1 unless the Texans trade down.

This would be my Lions big board:

Note: I am assuming Bush, Lienart, Ferguson, Hawk are gone for sure, and probably Young too.

Mario Williams DE NC State
Jimmy Williams CB Va Tech
Haloti Ngata DT Oregon

Those are really the only players I want at #9. I'm hoping we can trade a future first to get an extra first rounder (Denver has an extra pick) since most teams would feel next year's first rounder from us would be better than thier current pick. That way we can grab an OT (Winston maybe) in the 20's and possibly a LB in the 2nd round.

If Mario Williams is available, I'd LOVE to have tha guy. The other two...seems like you're starting to think like Millen. We have a pretty strong DT group and I think it's one thing on this team that didn't really need to be improved on- they also just took Cody with their 2nd rd pick last year. Getting Ngata would just about be like getting Mike Williams. Jimmy Williams is a solid player, but I think we have the corners, we just need some health. Bryant, as well as getting some production out of guys like Smith and the CB from Stanford. After a renegotiation or waive of Harrington, we'll have some free agent loot as well. Maybe we can go after another CB.

If Mario Williams is available, I'd LOVE to have tha guy. The other two...seems like you're starting to think like Millen. We have a pretty strong DT group and I think it's one thing on this team that didn't really need to be improved on- they also just took Cody with their 2nd rd pick last year. Getting Ngata would just about be like getting Mike Williams. Jimmy Williams is a solid player, but I think we have the corners, we just need some health. Bryant, as well as getting some production out of guys like Smith and the CB from Stanford. After a renegotiation or waive of Harrington, we'll have some free agent loot as well. Maybe we can go after another CB.

That's why Ngata is third on my list. I'd rather not get him. But if we don't get a Williams, our other options are Cutler, Deangelo Williams or reach for an OT. I'd rather get the best DE or CB, or even DT out there than the 2nd best OT, 3rd best QB, or a RB we don't need. I'm not sure Bryant is any good, and he makes a lot. We'll probably cut him, resign RW to play nickle and address starting CB opposite Bly with the pick or FA. Any FA CB will not be a shut down CB, or they wouldn't be a FA in the first place.

If Mario Williams is available, I'd LOVE to have tha guy. The other two...seems like you're starting to think like Millen. We have a pretty strong DT group and I think it's one thing on this team that didn't really need to be improved on- they also just took Cody with their 2nd rd pick last year. Getting Ngata would just about be like getting Mike Williams. Jimmy Williams is a solid player, but I think we have the corners, we just need some health. Bryant, as well as getting some production out of guys like Smith and the CB from Stanford. After a renegotiation or waive of Harrington, we'll have some free agent loot as well. Maybe we can go after another CB.

That's why Ngata is third on my list. I'd rather not get him. But if we don't get a Williams, our other options are Cutler, Deangelo Williams or reach for an OT. I'd rather get the best DE or CB, or even DT out there than the 2nd best OT, 3rd best QB, or a RB we don't need. I'm not sure Bryant is any good, and he makes a lot. We'll probably cut him, resign RW to play nickle and address starting CB opposite Bly with the pick or FA. Any FA CB will not be a shut down CB, or they wouldn't be a FA in the first place.

I think that makes sense, to get the bets player available, but I always think you need to find a home for that player, for us...we'd need to trade him or someone else to make it work..maybe cut Dan Wilkinson...although that doesn't make a ton of sense. As for CBs..Ken Lucas is a shut down corner and we was available..as was Champ Bailey. (albeit he was protected) I'm just saying..those players can occasionally be had. Away from that, a shut down corner is pretty rare and more than likely we'll just get a pac man jones or carlos rogers both of which played alright but nothing to hang top a 10 pick on. You made a good point with Bryant, I really wonder how good he is when healthy, but again, I think we have the corners, I think it's our lack of pressure on the QB that hangs our secondary out to dry. So we definitely agree on the DE...maybe even a LB (though haven't we invested funds in that as well?)

This years crop of OT is insanely good. Everyone is talking about DF but the guy I really like is Jonathon Scott from Texas. The kid is a monster and is as athletically gifted as any lineman in the league right now. I would love to see the team trade down about 5-6 spots and end up with McNeill or Jon Scott along with an extra pick in round 2. Scott in the first and Giles in the second and you have solved the O line issues.

I think there are going to be some defensive steals later on in this draft especially up front. A guy like Darryl Tapp from Va Tech I could see sliding to the middle of the second round and if the Lions could end up getting Scott - Giles - Tapp out of the first two rounds I would be more than happy.

Let me also add Manny Lawson to that Darryl Tapp thought. The kid who plays across from Mario Williams at NCST. He isn't as athletically gifted as Williams but he plays hard all the time and is no slouch in terms of getting to the QB. I think he will be around mid way thru the second round unless he has an insano combine. If we can get 2 second rounders I would be thrilled.

What do you think about Michael Huff from Texas?

I was impressed with his performance yesterday. He has the experience and the physical tools to play both cornerback and safety. He would certainly be an upgrade over McQuarters, Bryant and Goodman.

Depends when we could get him. Huff could have the kind of combine that vaults him into the top of the first roudn. If thats the case than no thank you. If he is around at the middle or end of the second than I think you definitly have to take a look at him. Guys like Pat Watkins from Florida St and Greg Blue from Georgia are on just about equal footing with Huff in my mind for this years safety class. If one of them has a good combine they will land in the mid to late first. Also depends if Bing or LaRon Landry declare since they would be the two highest rated safeties should they come out.

What I would like to see is us move either into the late third or early fourth and grab a guy like Roman Harper from Alabma or Anthony Smith from Syracuse. Both would be an upgrade over our current FS position.

Huff has been abused by Jarrett/Smith and Braylon back-to-back years in the Rose Bowl. No thanks.

I think Huff is already a first round material albeit in the lower end. Depending on how does at the combine, it might boost him up into the teens.

I also like Jonathan Scott (LT), David Thomas (TE), Will Allen (RG), Justin Blalock (RT), Michael Griffin (FS) from Texas and Taitusi Lutui (LG), Fred Matua (RG) from USC. Keep in mind, this is based on just last night's game.

TE is a very underrated need on our team. Pollard is still pretty damn good, but is in his mid-thirties, and Fitzsimmons is a backup(a damn good backup).

But no white Tight Ends, please.

I started a thread for people to put their personal mock drafts in. I think we can have conversation in here still while having an organized group of mocks that go hand in hand with some of our arguments about who the Lions should take. Right now it's just the top 10 picks. Maybe it will grow at some point. We need to know who all is eligible before we can go too deep.

Can someone fill me in on Antonio Cromartie?

From what I read he is supposed to be an elite corner with size, speed and skills. But he sat out the entire 2005 season due to injuries.

Where does he rank right now in terms of CB prospects? Any idea where might be picked?

I just realized that we don't have a 4th rounder and 7th rounder this draft. Which means that we will have to make sure that we get impact players with our other selections.

I just realized that we don't have a 4th rounder and 7th rounder this draft. Which means that we will have to make sure that we get impact players with our other selections.

[smilie=angry.gif]

The Lions have too many holes for only 5 picks. Millen had better pull a rabbit out of his ass.

Can someone fill me in on Antonio Cromartie?

From what I read he is supposed to be an elite corner with size, speed and skills. But he sat out the entire 2005 season due to injuries.

Where does he rank right now in terms of CB prospects? Any idea where might be picked?

A lot of people have him ranked as the 2nd best corner in the draft, after Jimmy Williams. If he hadn't torn his ACL, I'd think he'd be a lock for a top 10 pick, mabye even top 5.

I'm not saying he isn't the 2nd best corner in the draft, but this is yet another indication that its better to never play and get drafted on what people didn't see, than to play for four years and show your weaknesses at the same time you show your strengths.

I'm not saying he isn't the 2nd best corner in the draft, but this is yet another indication that its better to never play and get drafted on what people didn't see, than to play for four years and show your weaknesses at the same time you show your strengths.

Waiting for Darko to get brought into this thread...






Yes I realize I just did it.

Can someone fill me in on Antonio Cromartie?

From what I read he is supposed to be an elite corner with size, speed and skills. But he sat out the entire 2005 season due to injuries.

Where does he rank right now in terms of CB prospects? Any idea where might be picked?

A lot of people have him ranked as the 2nd best corner in the draft, after Jimmy Williams. If he hadn't torn his ACL, I'd think he'd be a lock for a top 10 pick, mabye even top 5.

Where do you think he goes in the draft? Will his injury concerns scare teams away from him and make him fall or will his potential cause him to rise?

I think he goes to the Giants in the first round.

49ers win coin toss for sixth spot in draft

It might not have carried the impact of the 10 regular-season games in which the Bay Area rivals have met, but San Francisco's "victory" over the Oakland Raiders on Friday, in a coin toss to determine the sixth and seventh overall choices in the draft, still felt pretty important to 49ers officials.

"It gives us a better spot to find more quality football players," 49ers coach Mike Nolan said.

By virtue of identical 4-12 records and the same opponents' winning percentage (.539), the Raiders and 49ers tied for sixth and seventh in draft order. The tie was broken Friday with the coin flip, as San Francisco vice president of player personnel Scot McCloughan won with a call of "tails."

The flip officially sets the order of selection in the first round, as the 49ers will choose in the sixth slot and the Raiders in the seventh position. The other 30 slots in the first round had already been determined.

Beyond setting the first-round order, winning the coin toss also provides San Francisco an advantage in some early-round subsequent rounds as well. In a rotation with the four other franchises that posted 4-12 records in 2005, the 49ers will own the fifth pick in the second round, the fourth choice in the third round, and the third pick in the fourth round. San Francisco will select seventh in Round 5, sixth in the sixth round and fifth in the final round, barring trades.

While the 49ers benefit by just one spot in the first round, that margin could be significant, given the way the picks might come off the board.

"It puts us one slot ahead of where we might have been and we can take a player we have our eye on," McCloughan said.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2343448

I heard today on The HUGE show that the Lions Defensive Coordinator is looking heavily at Michael Huff at pick #9. Apparently Donnie really wants a playmaking safety back there and they feel that Huff is exactly that guy. I'm not sure how I feel about this yet. Obviously if he will help our defense I think its a good plan, but I just feel that we have other glaring needs besides safety.

I haven't been a big fan of the Huff talk, but I'm coming around. Biggest reason?
Look at the recent history of drafting Safeties in the first round. Practically can't miss.
2005 -
Thomas Davis. Decent player but moved to LB to cover for injury.
2004 -
Sean Taylor. Very good player, but a headcase and a moron.
2003 -
Troy Polamalu. Absolute stud that had a HUGE part in getting the Steelers a ring this season.
2002 -
Roy Williams and Ed Reed. Pro-Bowlers and playmakers.
2001 -
Adam Archuleta and Derrick Gibson. Archuleta is solid. Gibson had quite a bit of potential and did some god things, but injuries have killed him.

Bottom line, you're more than likely to get a stud impact player on defense when you draft a safety in the first round. If Huff is getting the hype to be the next one, I'm buying it.

I agree that there are bigger needs, but it's not like we're drafting another WR. Safety is at least, arguably, one of our top 5 needs. My deal was I needed to see the defense get an instant playmaker or the offensive line get a solid starter. This would meet that requirement.

Huff ran a 4.36 too. While I think we need OT, LB and DE maybe more, the impact players at those positions will be gone (Brick, Hawk and Williams). I'd rather have the top DB than reach for a tackle or something. Then you can always get Johnathon Scott OT, Daryll Tapp DE, or Abdul Hodge (LB) in the second round.

I wonder if the Broncos try to move up in the draft using their 2 1st rounders to get either Vernon Davis or Mario/Hali now that they have a need at TE and DE.

I wonder if the Broncos try to move up in the draft using their 2 1st rounders to get either Vernon Davis or Mario/Hali now that they have a need at TE and DE.

I wouldn't. They may not get the best at either position, but they could get Pope (TE) and Tabb (DE) or Lawson (DE). Since they need WR badley too, I would hate to trade up and lose a pick if I am them. They could use a DT as well. The Broncos are really hurting at a few positions, luckily they have an extra pick.

I wonder if the Broncos try to move up in the draft using their 2 1st rounders to get either Vernon Davis or Mario/Hali now that they have a need at TE and DE.

I wouldn't. They may not get the best at either position, but they could get Pope (TE) and Tabb (DE) or Lawson (DE). Since they need WR badley too, I would hate to trade up and lose a pick if I am them. They could use a DT as well. The Broncos are really hurting at a few positions, luckily they have an extra pick.

Everyone seems to forget about Pope, and also Lewis.

Pope is 6'7"+ runs in the 4.6's, and has some of the softest hands you'll see. I would rather have him than Davis actually.

Lewis is the most polished route runner, with amazing hands I have seen in college football, including all but a few WR's.

The Dominic Byrd is great too.

If we could get Pope in the second, or Lewis and Byrd in the 3rd I think that Martz would start using the TE more, and our offense would be even better for whenever Joey gets cut.

Cobbs, Kirsch might draw interest

Just as the draft isn't an exact science, neither is the combine selection process, and recent history certainly has demonstrated that.

Over the last five years, an average of 38.4 prospects not invited to the combine were chosen in the draft. The average for the past 10 drafts is 39.6. Just as an invitation to the combine doesn't guarantee a spot in the lottery, neither does being snubbed for the workouts at Indianapolis completely scuttle a prospect's chance of hearing his name called on draft weekend.

This year, just as in every other, there are players who aren't at the RCA Dome for this weekend's sessions who will be chosen somewhere during the seven rounds on April 29-30. Here are some possibilities:

• RB Patrick Cobbs (North Texas): Doesn't have great size (5-foot-8, 207 pounds), but is a feisty runner between the tackles and has some speed at the second level. Rushed for 4,050 yards and 36 touchdowns in his career, including 1,680 yards and 19 scores in 2003.

• FS Terryl Fenton (Louisiana-Lafayette): Didn't make a lot of big plays in 45 games, but has better range than he sometimes displayed. Possesses good size (6-foot-1, 208 pounds) and has been clocked in under 4.4 in the 40. A good wrap-up tackler who gets around the football, he comes from a program that has produced a lot of good NFL defensive backs over the past five years.

• DE Brent Hawkins (Illinois State): Was the defensive player of the year in his conference in 2005, when he recorded 68 tackles, 18 sacks and seven forced fumbles. Has a big motor but will stay engaged with the blocker too long at times and will have to use his hands better at the next level. At 6-foot-2¼, 244 pounds, probably will have to move to linebacker and might be best suited for a 3-4 front.

• RB/FB De'Arrius Howard (Arkansas): Carried 413 times for 1,832 yards and 21 touchdowns for the Razorbacks. A good, productive back who could play fullback if he improved his blocking and receiving skills. Might also be able to play in a one-back formation. Never carried the ball more than 131 times in a season, but his size (5-foot-11¼, 235 pounds) and speed make him an intriguing guy.

• QB Brandon Kirsch (Purdue): Would probably have been better served returning to school for his senior season in 2006, but his size (6-foot-3, 212 pounds) and arm strength will interest some teams. Played in an offense that stresses making good reads. Only started for one full season, completing 292 of 489 passes for 3,532 yards, with 23 touchdown passes and 16 interceptions for his career.

• OTs Patrick McCoy and Dejuan Skinner (West Texas A&M): Raw and rawer. Both are in the 6-foot-6, 330-pound range and, having played at a school that ranked No. 1 in passing offense at the Division II level in 2005, know something about protecting the quarterback.

• DT Steve Williams (Northwest Missouri State): A football vagabond who played at Northern Illinois and Indiana before settling in at Northwest Missouri State. A productive player against the run, and has some ability to get through the inside gaps. Might be a little too short to be anything more than a part-timer.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2343015

The ripple effect of Brees and Culpepper

The quarterback carousel took a major shot in the arm with Daunte Culpepper heading to the Dolphins and Drew Brees changing his address to New Orleans. There will be a lot of ripples from these two decisions, so let's go through a few of the possibilities and probabilities.

The first thing that comes to mind is the value of the second pick in the draft for the New Orleans Saints. They can entertain calls from the teams that want Matt Leinart. The Titans would love to have a shot at the former USC quarterback, especially since offensive coordinator Norm Chow coached him to a Heisman Trophy two years ago. Tennessee can't afford to sit pat at No. 3 and expect Leinart to fall to them. They can't take that risk. The Jets could easily make the move from the fourth spot to No. 2 and grab Leinart. Now that would excite the Jet fans. If New Orleans could move down and still be guaranteed DE Mario Williams and draft compensation, they are on the road to recovery.

As for the Vikings, they now have draft pick Nos. 17, 48 and 51. The Dolphins could easily pass on QB Jay Cutler at the No. 16 pick, and then Cutler would be available for the Vikings. New head coach Brad Childress also has the firepower in those draft picks to move up in the draft if he wants to go for someone else.

The Jets could turn around and offer DE John Abraham to the Saints to move up into the second spot, and the Saints could turn around at the fourth spot and grab OT D'Brickashaw Ferguson.

The truth is the last two acquisitions by Miami and New Orleans, and the fact that Jon Kitna signed on with the Lions, changes everything for Cutler, Leinart and Vince Young.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/9307623

Vince Young @ Texas' Pro Day


Texas' Pro Day got under way just before 11 a.m. ET with 31 teams in attendance, including over 150 coaches, general managers and scouts. Among the team personnel in attendance were three key members of the Texans (owner Bob McNair, head coach Gary Kubiak and GM Charley Casserly), Green Bay head coach Mike McCarthy and GM Ted Thompson, Dolphins head coach Nick Saban and general manager Randy Mueller, Titans general manager Floyd Reese and offensive coordinator Norm Chow, Rams defensive coordinator Jim Haslett, Ravens quarterbacks coach Rick Neuheisel, and new Cowboys quarterbacks coach Chris Palmer. Titans head coach Jeff Fisher will visit Texas tonight and Tennessee will have a private workout with Vince Young Thursday morning.

The main event started at 3:15 p.m. -- Young throwing. He started off 7 out of 7. In all, he had a 40-minute workout in which he threw from under center as opposed to out of the shotgun. It gave team personnel an opportunity to evaluate him that way since he worked out of the shotgun predominantly at Texas. He impressed everyone with his arm strength, quick delivery and accuracy. Young made great strides today.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/9329030

31 teams?

Rumor has it that the Ravens are looking to take Winston Justice if he is available at 13.

Camps divided on Rose Bowl hero's NFL future

One thing I've noticed this offseason is how distinct the two camps are when it comes to Vince Young and his readiness to play in the NFL. There are those who question how well his obviously bountiful athletic talents will fit into the mold of an NFL quarterback, and then there are those who question why there are questions about Young. As in, "Didn't you see the Rose Bowl? 'Nuff said."

But if dominance and production at the collegiate level were all there were to it and the type of offense you ran at the University of Whatever didn't matter a whit, then Andre Ware and David Klingler would have been great NFL pros. And so goes the point, counterpoint.

That said, there seem to be fewer members of the "Is he ready?'' camp today, after Young put on a pretty impressive display of passing at his Texas pro day workout Wednesday in Austin.

With about 120 or so NFL types looking on -- not to mention a decent-sized media horde -- Young improved his value by throwing a variety of passes, almost all of them on the mark. And he did it in drop-back formation, rather than in the shotgun set in which he took nearly all his collegiate snaps.

"He threw the ball well,'' one personnel man from an NFC club told me. "He had good velocity and ball placement. He answered a lot of questions and put a lot of critics to rest with that workout. For a lot of teams up at the top of the draft, he answered a lot of questions today.''

Scouts seemed to like Young's footwork enough when he went into three-, five- and seven-step drops after taking simulated snaps from center, and his athleticism was on full display when he threw the ball on rollouts. His 40 or so passes were equally divided among short, intermediate and deep patterns, and he threw them all with proficiency, albeit in that sidearm delivery that still makes some talent evaluators a bit nervous.

"He's a great athlete, and he looked very comfortable in dropping back,'' the NFC-club personnel man said. "His thing is going to be learning at the next level. He's going to have a learning curve like every other young quarterback. It'll be, with him, working to read defenses and recognize looks, and going through his progressions. But there's no question he had a great workout.''

Young did have the benefit of working out in the Longhorns' practice bubble, out of the elements, and some personnel men noted that they still want to see him throw more passes when he's out of his comfort zone and in private workouts with clubs such as Houston, Tennessee and the Jets.

If there was a surprise Wednesday, it was that Young decided to run a 40-yard dash, after saying he wouldn't. According to NFL.com, he timed 4.57 seconds, a tad slower than expected for the 6-4½, 228-pound junior.

"He's fast enough, let me put it to you that way,'' the NFC-club personnel man said. "When you turn the film on, there's hardly anybody catching him. So that's all you really need to see.''

Miami's Nick Saban, Houston's Gary Kubiak and Green Bay's Mike McCarthy were among the NFL head coaches in attendance, and there were numerous league general managers, offensive coordinators and quarterback coaches. "It was a zoo,'' said one eyewitness.

Maybe that's because as a prospect who can both run like a running back and throw like a quarterback, Young is a very different breed compared with other NFL hopefuls this year. And that uniqueness is fueling many of the questions that have raged for more than two months now.

In five weeks or so, we get to find out which team thinks Young is the answer and not a question mark. But until then, he'll continue to be the most intriguing and talked-about figure in this year's draft.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/don_banks/03/23/don/


Vince Young threw sideline passes, deep routes and across the middle. Some were touch passes, others he fired as hard as he could. Almost all were on target. The former Texas quarterback worked out for 30 minutes in front of more than 100 NFL scouts, coaches and executives who are paying close attention to the quirky throwing motion that still raises questions despite delivering a national championship.

"Very impressed," said new Houston Texans coach Gary Kubiak, whose team owns the No. 1 pick. "The kid put on a show." It was a long time coming. Young declared for the draft four days after leading Texas to a Rose Bowl victory over Southern California.
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060323/SPORTS01/603230526/1049


Young — who was measured and weighed at 6-4 5/8 and 228 pounds — put on an impressive performance in the Longhorns' practice bubble.

Young threw 57 passes. One was dropped, and only four were off target.

"I was impressed, but I wasn't surprised, because we already knew Vince was a great athlete," Texans owner Bob McNair said. "He showed a super arm. He was really accurate. He put the ball on the numbers. He was accurate throwing on the run, and he didn't have to break stride. It was a great performance."

Rhome had Young drop back as if he were taking snaps from center instead of playing in the shotgun as he did for the Longhorns. Young threw from the pocket. He rolled right and left. He threw short, intermediate and long passes.

Young's most impressive pass came when he rolled to his left and threw across his body 60 yards down the left sideline.

Young even ran a reverse option, catching a long pass from Carter in stride down the right sideline.

When the pro day began, Young didn't plan on running the 40-yard dash at the Longhorns' training facility. But he changed his mind and ran one time. Four scouts had him timed at 4.57, 4.60, 4.60 and 4.61 seconds.

"The scouts wanted to see me run, so I ran," Young said. "I'm a team guy."
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3742439.html
^ I edited parts of the last article and only left relevant parts in.

I don't like Vince Young. I never understood why everyone was so high on him.

If he somehow slips to our pick, I will be really upset if we either don't draft him or even better trade out of our spot. It is the perfect position for someone to jump up and take him.

Young won't slip to us. The Raiders are the absolute farthest he slides IMO.

BTW, there is a chance that Mario Williams slips to us though (or Hawk if GB takes Williams).

Bush will go #1. #2 is tricky with the Saints signing Brees. They could take Brick or Williams. Lienart, Culter and Young could go to the Titans, Jets and Raiders . Nagota seems to be going to Buffalo. If Davis goes to SF, we'll have a choice between Williams, Hawk or Huff (depending on who GB takes). That would be nice. If Williams is still there I take him and trade Edwards for a second rounder (if we can). But Hawk could be there instead if GB takes Williams.

I'm going to make a prediction. Jay Cutler will be a member of the Arizona Cardinals, drafted at #10.

BTW, there is a chance that Mario Williams slips to us though (or Hawk if GB takes Williams).

Bush will go #1. #2 is tricky with the Saints signing Brees. They could take Brick or Williams. Lienart, Culter and Young could go to the Titans, Jets and Raiders . Nagota seems to be going to Buffalo. If Davis goes to SF, we'll have a choice between Williams, Hawk or Huff (depending on who GB takes). That would be nice. If Williams is still there I take him and trade Edwards for a second rounder (if we can). But Hawk could be there instead if GB takes Williams.

FYI, I don't think this happens. Nagota is a 2 gap kinda guy and Buff. is using a Cover 2 D. Despite the need he isn't the right guy for the team, and word is Buff is looking for a chance to trade down.

His last name is spelled NGATA! He would be amazing on the Lions next to Shaun Rogents, with Bus Bully at LB and Dare Belly at CB.

BTW, there is a chance that Mario Williams slips to us though (or Hawk if GB takes Williams).

Bush will go #1. #2 is tricky with the Saints signing Brees. They could take Brick or Williams. Lienart, Culter and Young could go to the Titans, Jets and Raiders . Nagota seems to be going to Buffalo. If Davis goes to SF, we'll have a choice between Williams, Hawk or Huff (depending on who GB takes). That would be nice. If Williams is still there I take him and trade Edwards for a second rounder (if we can). But Hawk could be there instead if GB takes Williams.

I think one of the QBs goes after our pick, probbaly Cutler. Vernon Davis could really help us, but if SF passes on him, then we're left with a remianing QB-which we dont want, a TE-which we dont want, and one of the CBs. I think SF takes a CB if they don't take VD. Personally I'd feel good with either Jimmy or Mike at CB, though they say Jimmy might hve some attitude issues.

His last name is spelled NGATA! He would be amazing on the Lions next to Shaun Rogents, with Bus Bully at LB and Dare Belly at CB.

I'd be happy with him provided Big Daddy isn't coming back. If he does, we should wait a year on DT. I would definately take him over a QB though, or any OT not named Ferguson.

His last name is spelled NGATA! He would be amazing on the Lions next to Shaun Rogents, with Bus Bully at LB and Dare Belly at CB.

I'd be happy with him provided Big Daddy isn't coming back. If he does, we should wait a year on DT. I would definately take him over a QB though, or any OT not named Ferguson.

Didn't we get the kid from USC to eventually fill the role of Wilkinson?

Young won't slip to us. The Raiders are the absolute farthest he slides IMO.
Hopefully not. I heard a rumor Baltimore is trading up with us. And supposedly throwing in Ray Lewis.

Also Heard the Niners are trading their pick to Minny. I can't remember the specifics. But its an all picks trade.


And LOL@Varsity's sig. [smilie=applause.gi:

ps: it should be known when i say Us i mean this
http://home.att.net/~alanj.hall/RaidersLogo.JPG

I would love to land the Ravens pick and Ray Lewis. I know a lot of people hate on Lewis but IMO he would be just what the Lions need on D. We still could land the same player we want at 9 but not have to pay as much or reach as far.

Sure Lewis is old and breaking down but he is a guy who players want to play with. He is a leader, he is guy who makes people accountable. I am sure if Lewis landed here either the Ravens are eating a large portion of salary that can't be traded, or Lewis would re-structure. I don't see the downside unless we can get a better deal for the 9th pick.

Good luck with getting Lewis and 13 for just #9. I've been talking to a lot of my fellow Raven fans and none of them are hearing anything.

Good luck with getting Lewis and 13 for just #9. I've been talking to a lot of my fellow Raven fans and none of them are hearing anything.

Why? I proposed that deal weeks ago. Apparently the Ravens were considering a 3rd rounder for Lewis. The difference between the #9 and #13 picks is actually a 3rd rounder. So it's a fair deal if they really consider Lewis worth a 3rd rounder.

If they are moving on from the Lewis era, why not secure a Qb of the future (supposing Young or Cutler is there at #9)?

Good luck with getting Lewis and 13 for just #9. I've been talking to a lot of my fellow Raven fans and none of them are hearing anything.
i wouldnt expect them to. and no its not that simple. it would involve a raider player and maybe other picks if it went through. but its just a rumor at the moment. but lewis and 13 for the #7(not 9. im talking bout the raiders damnit.lol) only is not what i meant.

damn i thought everyone knew i'm no lions fan. [smilie=arnold.gif]

i only brought it up because if both these trades go through it could effect what you guys have available at the 9 spot.

Good luck with getting Lewis and 13 for just #9. I've been talking to a lot of my fellow Raven fans and none of them are hearing anything.

Why? I proposed that deal weeks ago. Apparently the Ravens were considering a 3rd rounder for Lewis. The difference between the #9 and #13 picks is actually a 3rd rounder. So it's a fair deal if they really consider Lewis worth a 3rd rounder.

If they are moving on from the Lewis era, why not secure a Qb of the future (supposing Young or Cutler is there at #9)?

A couple weeks ago, Lewis said he was happy with the Ravens, according to the Baltimore Sun. If he's happy, then he won't be traded. If he isn't happy, then he will. But with the way our offseason has gone, he should be happy playing with this defense. He had a lot of complaints about getting blindsided by offensive linemen when the d-line got owned. The defensive line is a lot better now, with the additions of Pryce and Stills. If I had to take a guess, I'd say that he was happy now, since they have been making strides towards getting better.

Good luck with getting Lewis and 13 for just #9. I've been talking to a lot of my fellow Raven fans and none of them are hearing anything.

Why? I proposed that deal weeks ago. Apparently the Ravens were considering a 3rd rounder for Lewis. The difference between the #9 and #13 picks is actually a 3rd rounder. So it's a fair deal if they really consider Lewis worth a 3rd rounder.

If they are moving on from the Lewis era, why not secure a Qb of the future (supposing Young or Cutler is there at #9)?

A couple weeks ago, Lewis said he was happy with the Ravens, according to the Baltimore Sun. If he's happy, then he won't be traded. If he isn't happy, then he will. But with the way our offseason has gone, he should be happy playing with this defense. He had a lot of complaints about getting blindsided by offensive linemen when the d-line got owned. The defensive line is a lot better now, with the additions of Pryce and Stills. If I had to take a guess, I'd say that he was happy now, since they have been making strides towards getting better.
happy or not he doesnt look comfortable in the 46 defense. and i doubt he's happy. more like lip service. And they are pretty deep in the LB core to the point they had suggs at DE. With pryce they dont have to do that now.

But dont believe any happy talk. Ray is still irked IMO. And he still wants that upfront money that b-more isnt gonna give him.

FYI, I don't think this happens. Nagota is a 2 gap kinda guy and Buff. is using a Cover 2 D. Despite the need he isn't the right guy for the team, and word is Buff is looking for a chance to trade down.

Yep.

Speaking of Buffalo, word in scouting circles is that the Bills are not targeting Oregon defensive tackle Haloti Ngata with the No. 8 selection in the draft. That's a surprise for those who thought he was a natural fit for Buffalo's pick (including yours truly). Apparently, Ngata doesn't fit Buffalo's plans in the Cover 2 defense. One scouting source indicated Tuesday that USC offensive tackle Winston Justice could be the Bills' true target in the first round.

Talking to a guy this morning, that may be Buff blowing smoke. In fact they seem to be pretty high on him regardless of his style and if Hawk isn't there they should still pull the trigger.

I don't think you pass on a guy at your position because you think he's the wrong style. Atlanta didn't pass on Vick when they wanted to use the WCO which is based on accuracy. I can see a 3-4 vs 4-3 defense altering what player you might draft (getting a hybrid DE/OLB like Merriman), but if you're running a 4-3 then you get the DT regardless. You can't tell me Shaun Rogers is a good DT in the defense we ran, but he'll suck in the Tampa 2 defense. A good DT is a good DT, and will cause havoc regardless. It's more important to have the LB's that fit your scheme (quick/range vs size/tackling) than DT's.

Holy shit.

Reggie Bush (and Winston Justice) put up some eye-popping numbers at the USC Pro Day. LenDale White, on the other hand, was a dud.


Bush (5-11, 202) ran his 40 in 4.33. Had a 10-foot-9 long jump, 40½-inch vertical jump.

Justice (6-6¼, 320) had a 34½-inch arm length, 39-inch vertical jump, and 38 lifts.

39 inch verticle for Justice? Wow. That's crazy. He's built like Maxiel (with a few extra pounds). I could see us taking him if Williams or Hawk doesn't fall there and nobody will trade with us.

39 inch verticle for Justice? Wow. That's crazy. He's built like Maxiel (with a few extra pounds). I could see us taking him if Williams or Hawk doesn't fall there and nobody will trade with us.

Are you talking about Jimmy Williams? I think he'll be there, it's Huff I'm more worried about. Especially if SF isn't taking Davis.

^Mario, sorry. I don't think we'll take Jimmy. I think this is the Lions big board:

D'Brickshaw Ferguson
Mario Williams
AJ Hawk
Michael Huff
Winston Justice
Hiolata (Sp) Ngata (depends on big daddy)

I can't see them looking at anyone else. I doubt any of the first 3 are there, so we'll likely take one of the other 3. Justice had a great USC workout so it's possible that he isn't the slight reach he might have been.

I think Justice pushed himself into the Top 10 with his workout at the USC Pro Day. Reggie Bush, Leinhart and Darnell Bing also had solid workouts.

LenDale White is the guy who hurt himself the most. He showed up overweight (244 pounds) and had just 15 repetitions on the bench press.


Bush, Justice shine at USC pro scout workout

Scheduled to be the guest of honor at Petco Park on Monday, Reggie Bush strongly hinted that the first pitch of the San Diego Padres' 2006 season will be a curveball.

An interesting choice by the Southern California tailback and Heisman Trophy winner, since he delivered nothing but fastballs during the Trojans' "pro day" workouts Sunday afternoon, a session in which Bush clearly cemented his status as the first overall selection by the Houston Texans in the April 29 draft.

Working in front of about 150 scouts and personnel officials, a group that included four head coaches and several general managers, Bush was surgically proficient in every drill in which he participated. He posted an eye-opening 40½-inch vertical jump, performed a very solid 24 repetitions on the standard 225-pound bench press, and was clocked in the 40-yard sprint in 4.37-4.41 seconds, according to a few scouts. The electronic times for Bush were a little quicker, in the 4.33-4.37 range.

In the on-field drills, Bush demonstrated burst out of the backfield. And while there weren't as many balls directed to him as he had hoped during Matt Leinart's throwing session, he caught the ball well.

"Probably not the absolute perfect day that everybody wants to have at one of these things," Bush told ESPN.com after the nearly four hours of drills. "But I felt good. I feel like I came in here today as the No. 1 guy, and I think I'm leaving the same way. So, in that sense, it's pretty satisfying. Now I can kick back and go to the beach for a few days. For me, well, I think I'm walking out of here a winner for the day."

Probably not the biggest winner, though, since Bush's draft status wasn't going to change at all based on Sunday's audition. Unless, of course, he fell on his face in every drill.

Looking for winners? Well, try these two, for openers: The USC machine, already one of the premier football programs in the country, came out looking good. Coach Pete Carroll had 200 potential recruits on campus for the weekend, and the presence of so many NFL scouts certainly didn't hurt him when he delivered his sales pitch to possible future Trojans stars. And the Southern California offensive linemen who are draft eligible, in particular tackle Winston Justice, obviously enhanced their stock.

"Pete said that he was going to do his 'pro day' bigger and better than anyone has ever done it, and he succeeded in that," acknowledged Houston general manager Charley Casserly. "More and more schools are starting to use this kind of event as a recruiting tool and, if you're a kid considering coming here, how could you not help but be impressed by this?"

Carolina Panthers coach John Fox termed the scene "a spectacle," and that captures the essence of the buzz that was created on campus, with 1,500-2,000 fans on hand, cheering on the players. Some personnel men did feel the overall scene -- one called it "a zoo" -- was over the top and distracting to players and scouts. By nature, scouts want more control and a sterile environment when auditioning players.

As for the on-field spectaculars, Justice, who still must resolve some old character issues for scouts before the draft, was the player who inarguably helped himself the most. He checked in at 6-foot-6¼ and 320 pounds, carried his weight well, and performed admirably in every drill.

In the vertical jump, Justice did 39 inches, an incredible mark for such a big man. He registered 38 "repetitions" in the bench press. Justice pulled up toward the end of the 40-yard drill, clutching his right hamstring, but one AFC scout still said he clocked him at 5.03 seconds.

In the pass-block drills, Justice, who has the kind of wing span scouts love (34½ inches) in pass protectors, looked very agile and naturally athletic, despite the sore hamstring.

"Happy with what I did and happy it's over," said Justice, who missed time during his career because of two off-field incidents, one of which included pulling a pellet gun on a USC student. "We'll just have to see where it goes from here."

Where the talented Justice could be going, according to coaches and scouts, is perhaps into the top 10 in the draft. Fox noted that there are teams that like Justice a little better than they do D'Brickashaw Ferguson of Virginia, the consensus No. 1 tackle in the draft pool.

"On tape, he's a player, a first-rounder," Fox said. "And that's ultimately what you're looking at when you make the final evaluation. But, yeah, Justice sure jumped out today. He could climb higher [in the first round] now, no doubt."

Two other offensive linemen, guards Taitusi Lutui and Fred Matua, were also impressive. Lutui looks like a prototype NFL guard, thick and girthy, at 330 pounds, and naturally powerful. Matua, the lesser-celebrated of the two, was 301 pounds Sunday but performed as many "reps" on the bench press as did Lutui (26) and ran considerably faster (5.06-5.33) in the 40.

As for Leinart? He displayed some athleticism by turning in a 37-inch vertical jump. He completed 36 of 45 passes by unofficial count, with three drops by his receivers. His accuracy was good, not great, and his arm strength was adequate. It appeared, at times, that he aimed the ball a bit too much and some balls sailed on him. Leinart conceded afterwards that he probably pressed a little.

"In situations like these," Leinart said, "I think you tend to overdo it. You know, you try to throw a ball too hard, and it goes high, or you try to be too fine with your passes. I think I started off too tight."

Not as tight as LenDale White, the other half of the USC tailback tandem, and the man who holds the school record for touchdowns. Still nursing a sore hamstring he said he sustained at the combine sessions in Indianapolis nearly six weeks ago, White looked soft and performed only in the bench press drill, where he eked out just 15 lifts. He rarely removed his track suit and, when he did, White looked soft. He weighed in at 244 pounds, six pounds heavier than he was at the combine.

White didn't seem concerned about not being able to work out. "I'm the only true big back in the first round, and people who want the physical runner are going to have to look at me," he said.

Several personnel directors emphasized, though, that time is running out on White, who has yet to be timed in the 40.

"At some point, and real soon, he's got to take off that warm-up suit and run," said one of the head coaches on hand. "No one has a 40-time on him and that's not good."
http://proxy.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2394532

^Mario, sorry. I don't think we'll take Jimmy. I think this is the Lions big board:

D'Brickshaw Ferguson
Mario Williams
AJ Hawk
Michael Huff
Winston Justice
Hiolata (Sp) Ngata (depends on big daddy)

I can't see them looking at anyone else. I doubt any of the first 3 are there, so we'll likely take one of the other 3. Justice had a great USC workout so it's possible that he isn't the slight reach he might have been.

After what I've read today, I'm tempted to say I want the big board to read

Winston Justice
Winston Justice
Winston Justice
Winston Justice
Winston Justice

He's exactly what we need to solidfy that line that we havent really taken care of at all during free agent period. (short term fixes, if that) I know jumping on a workout will always get you in trouble (see Darko) but right now he looks like he has more upside than Ferguson.

^Mario, sorry. I don't think we'll take Jimmy. I think this is the Lions big board:

D'Brickshaw Ferguson
Mario Williams
AJ Hawk
Michael Huff
Winston Justice
Hiolata (Sp) Ngata (depends on big daddy)

I can't see them looking at anyone else. I doubt any of the first 3 are there, so we'll likely take one of the other 3. Justice had a great USC workout so it's possible that he isn't the slight reach he might have been.

After what I've read today, I'm tempted to say I want the big board to read

Winston Justice
Winston Justice
Winston Justice
Winston Justice
Winston Justice

He's exactly what we need to solidfy that line that we havent really taken care of at all during free agent period. (short term fixes, if that) I know jumping on a workout will always get you in trouble (see Darko) but right now he looks like he has more upside than Ferguson.

He wasn't even on the 2 deep for all conference(only USC lineman not on the list), he threatened a guy with a pellet gun, and got caught picking up a hooker.

Yeah, lets get the workout warrior with character problems, that works. [smilie=anxious.gif]

Justice had been #1 on the Ravens big board for a couple weeks now.

Trojan stars strut stuff for NFL scouts

It was a carnival-like atmosphere at USC on Sunday as hundreds of NFL scouts, coaches and general managers descended on Heritage Hall. They all came to see some of the most talented prospects available in April's NFL draft work out.

For the most part the headliners did not disappoint, yet there were some surprising results.

Reggie Bush, the Heisman Trophy winner and odds-on favorite to be the first pick of the draft, was spectacular. After pushing up 24 repetitions of 225 pounds on the bench press, Bush proceeded to turn in a 40.5-inch vertical jump. He left no doubt about his speed, running his 40s in times of 4.33 and 4.37 seconds. Surprisingly, Bush was used little at running back and spent most of the practice session running routes as a pass catcher.

In the end that meant little, as Bush left no doubt in the minds of scouts that he is the prize to be had on April 29.

Several of the blockers who opened holes at the line of scrimmage for Bush also stood out.

Even though he was suffering from a strained calf muscle, tackle Winston Justice was outstanding and improved his draft stock significantly. Weighing 320 pounds, Justice threw up 38 reps on the bench, then turned in a vertical jump of 39 inches. Afterward, Justice looked terrific during position drills and has some thinking he could move into the draft's first dozen picks.

Guard Fred Matua was a nice surprise, improving almost every mark he turned in at the combine. Matua ran faster than many thought possible, timing under five seconds on many stopwatches. He also displayed skill as a long snapper, and many are whispering that Matua has jumped into the draft's first day.

Deuce Lutui also made a positive impression. Similar to Matua, the Trojans' other guard improved many of his marks from the combine after shedding a few pounds. His footwork during drills was better, and Lutui solidified himself as a top 75 pick.

The reaction to Matt Leinart's workout was mixed. Measuring 6-feet-5½ and 224 pounds, Leinart was accurate throwing the ball all afternoon and right on the money with his passes. The pocket passer also displayed surprising mobility, rolling to the sidelines and throwing strikes on the move. What he lacked was a big arm and the ability to zip the ball. While some were disappointed, this came as a surprise to no one. It looks as though Leinart's NFL future will be in Tennessee. A full complement of Titans decision makers will stay in town to work out the signal-caller again Monday.

Fullback David Kirtman and cornerback Johnny Walker were a pair of second-tier prospects who also helped themselves with good workouts.

But all the news coming out of Troy on Sunday was not positive.

While he was impressive catching the ball, tight end Dominique Byrd ran poorly, barely breaking 4.8 seconds in the 40. His other workout numbers were well below par.

Scouts called defensive end Frostee Rucker "unprepared," and the pass rusher is watching his stock drop. Cornerback Justin Wyatt ran a pedestrian 4.74 seconds and is unlikely to be drafted.

Yet no one in attendance did more damage to his draft stock than running back LenDale White.

At one point considered a top 20 pick early in the scouting process, White's results over the past six weeks have dropped him out of the first round.

Red flags were raised when White showed up at the combine weighing an ample 238 pounds, then refused to participate in any of the workouts.

After Sunday's results, the warning sirens are now blaring.

White weighed in at 244 pounds, completed just 15 reps on the bench (nine fewer than Reggie Bush) and did nothing else, complaining of a "sore hamstring." Scouts were miffed that White never took his sweats off and gave the attitude that he'd rather be someplace else.

While he hopes to run again in two weeks, White's draft stock is plunging. Gone is the opportunity to display his skills in front of all 32 teams, something afforded him a second time Sunday.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/football/nfl/04/02/usc.wrapup/index.html

^Mario, sorry. I don't think we'll take Jimmy. I think this is the Lions big board:

D'Brickshaw Ferguson
Mario Williams
AJ Hawk
Michael Huff
Winston Justice
Hiolata (Sp) Ngata (depends on big daddy)

I can't see them looking at anyone else. I doubt any of the first 3 are there, so we'll likely take one of the other 3. Justice had a great USC workout so it's possible that he isn't the slight reach he might have been.

After what I've read today, I'm tempted to say I want the big board to read

Winston Justice
Winston Justice
Winston Justice
Winston Justice
Winston Justice

He's exactly what we need to solidfy that line that we havent really taken care of at all during free agent period. (short term fixes, if that) I know jumping on a workout will always get you in trouble (see Darko) but right now he looks like he has more upside than Ferguson.

He wasn't even on the 2 deep for all conference(only USC lineman not on the list), he threatened a guy with a pellet gun, and got caught picking up a hooker.

Yeah, lets get the workout warrior with character problems, that works. [smilie=anxious.gif]

Damn sure would have worked if we took Shawne Merriman over Mike Williams. I know that much.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/news/story?id=2394900&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl %2finsider%2fnews%2fstory%3fid%3d2394900

• According to team observers, Lions president Matt Millen has told acquaintances that DE Mario Williams is the kind of player the team wants to build around. Williams, though, is expected to be long gone by the time the Lions pick ninth overall. However, Millen might consider moving up in the draft should Williams drop a few spots.

^Mario, sorry. I don't think we'll take Jimmy. I think this is the Lions big board:

D'Brickshaw Ferguson
Mario Williams
AJ Hawk
Michael Huff
Winston Justice
Hiolata (Sp) Ngata (depends on big daddy)

I can't see them looking at anyone else. I doubt any of the first 3 are there, so we'll likely take one of the other 3. Justice had a great USC workout so it's possible that he isn't the slight reach he might have been.

After what I've read today, I'm tempted to say I want the big board to read

Winston Justice
Winston Justice
Winston Justice
Winston Justice
Winston Justice

He's exactly what we need to solidfy that line that we havent really taken care of at all during free agent period. (short term fixes, if that) I know jumping on a workout will always get you in trouble (see Darko) but right now he looks like he has more upside than Ferguson.

He wasn't even on the 2 deep for all conference(only USC lineman not on the list), he threatened a guy with a pellet gun, and got caught picking up a hooker.

Yeah, lets get the workout warrior with character problems, that works. [smilie=anxious.gif]

Damn sure would have worked if we took Shawne Merriman over Mike Williams. I know that much.

Merriman was All-ACC, and underrated due to lack of coverage(Ware is an even better example of that), Justice had no lack of coverage, just lack of performance.

Also, how did Mike do on the field before his draft year? Oh, wait he wasn't there, so the comparison doesn't work there either.

Nontheless, that 39" vert doesn't sound possible. That is like NBA jumper height, and was only an 1 1/2 inches off Bush's.

I didn't think that vertical sounded possibly either, but how could you really be off on that? I could see it being slightly off (an inch or something), but not much. Don't they just measure your standing reach, and then how high you reach on a jump? you can't mess that up.

Merriman was All-ACC, and underrated due to lack of coverage(Ware is an even better example of that), Justice had no lack of coverage, just lack of performance.

Also, how did Mike do on the field before his draft year? Oh, wait he wasn't there, so the comparison doesn't work there either.

Nontheless, that 39" vert doesn't sound possible. That is like NBA jumper height, and was only an 1 1/2 inches off Bush's.

While he does have some consistency issues, Justice has been the 2nd best OLineman in the country just behind Ferguson. Let's not make it sound like he is just some scrub that had good workouts at the Combine and Pro-Day.

As far as the Vertical goes, he was measured with a 35" at the Combine. So I doubt that the 39" vertical was a mistake.

From what Len Pasq and John Clayton have been saying on ESPN and ESPN Radio it sounds like the Jets are the key to the draft. If they can convince the Saints to trade down and give up the 2 spot then things will fall close to the projections. However if the Jets can't trade up to get Williams they may look to move to where the Lions are within a pick or two either way. If this true the Lions should really try to make a move if the deal isn't too costly. I mean at that spot they control the direction of the team. I mean you either get a cornerstone of an OL for years to come in D'Brickashaw or a playmaking defensive foundation in Hawk.

Merriman was All-ACC, and underrated due to lack of coverage(Ware is an even better example of that), Justice had no lack of coverage, just lack of performance.

Also, how did Mike do on the field before his draft year? Oh, wait he wasn't there, so the comparison doesn't work there either.

Nontheless, that 39" vert doesn't sound possible. That is like NBA jumper height, and was only an 1 1/2 inches off Bush's.

While he does have some consistency issues, Justice has been the 2nd best OLineman in the country just behind Ferguson. Let's not make it sound like he is just some scrub that had good workouts at the Combine and Pro-Day.

As far as the Vertical goes, he was measured with a 35" at the Combine. So I doubt that the 39" vertical was a mistake.

No, he was the 2nd highest RATED, due largely to incredible athletism.

Once again, he wasn't on the 1st or 2nd All Conference teams, he was the only offensive lineman from USC not on either team.

That means that PAC 10 coaches think that Matua, Lutui, Baker, Kalil, and Byrd are all better college linemen.

I wouldn't take Justice till the mid to late 1st. His potential is great, his production, average at best.

In terms of production McNiell, Colledge, Trueblood, and Scott were better from what I watched this season(not that I would pick them first, maybe McNiell and Scott, but not the other 2).

Another receiver making a late run up draft boards around the NFL is unheralded Western Michigan WR Greg Jennings. There have never been any doubts about Jennings productivity at WMU where he had 228 receptions the past three years including 98 in 2005. For most of that time, though, Jennings had been thought of as more as a possession type receiver with only average speed; however, Jennings put those doubts to rest when he ran a blistering 4.40 40 at the combine. That combined with excellent receiving skills could vault into the mid to late second round later this month in a very down year at the position. Indeed, Jennings has been athletic enough that there have even been some rumblings that he could ultimately play densive back at the next level.
http://www.gbnreport.com/scoutsnotebook.htm

As of right now, the Ravens draft board consists of only two players. Haloti Ngata and Winston Justice. Apparently, team management is high on Ryan O'Callaghan(RT) of Cal, which could lead to them possibly moving up to grab Ngata, instead of going after Justice. Also, there are reports that Ray Lewis has been asking for some protection, in the form of a "nameless" gap stuffing DT. All indications are saying that it's Ngata.

Personally, I would love a draft of Ngata and O'Callaghan.

Haven't read through the whole thread, so forgive me if this has already been posted, but for what it is worth here are Mel Kiper's projected 2nd and 3rd round picks for the Lions:

2nd round: Davin Joseph, OG, Oklahoma
3rd round: Devin Hester, CB, Miami

Top 100 risers/fallers in NFL draft

Risers

Southern California offensive tackle Winston Justice helped his stock during the USC Pro Day April 2 with two tremendous efforts — 38 reps with 225 pounds and a 39-inch vertical jump after weighing in at 320 pounds

North Carolina State defensive end Manny Lawson is expected to be drafted by a team looking to transition him to outside linebacker, probably in a 3-4 alignment. The question about the 6-foot-6, 241-pounder was not speed, as Lawson blazed a 4.43-secon 40-yard dash at the Combine, but agility and explosiveness. Lawson, however, ran a 6.90 in the three cone drill, the test designed to show change of direction. His time was faster than all linebackers not named A.J. Hawk who are expected to be drafted on the first day.

Miami cornerback Kelly Jennings lacks the size (5-11, 178) teams are looking for, but in a draft featuring numerous pass defenders with potential and few sure things, Jennings stands out. A veteran of 48 games with the Hurricanes, Jennings' man to man skills and experience were obvious at the Senior Bowl.

Fresno State cornerback Richard Marshall is also rising up the charts. Marshall forced teams to take a harder look after the Combine when he ran the 40 in 4.42 seconds and the three-cone drill in 6.66 seconds, the second fastest time of any cornerback tested in Indianapolis. Teams are also impressed with Marshall's willingness to support the run. He led the Bulldogs with 78 tackles this season.

Memphis running back DeAngelo Williams secured his position among the top running backs with a strong Pro Day performance after skipping the 40 at the Combine. The former Memphis star ran the 40 in the 4.4-second range and caught the ball well in drills.

Fallers

Florida State outside linebacker Ernie Sims impresses teams with his explosiveness and aggression, but a history of repeated concussions may keep the underclassman from going as early as he would otherwise.

Southern California running back LenDale White, who opted not to work out at Indy Combine, was a disappointment at his own Pro Day on April 2. He weighed in at 244 pounds, six more than at Indy, then had only 15 reps in the bench (compared to 24 for Reggie Bush) and didn't run the 40 because of a sore hamstring. He hopes to have another Pro Day within the next two weeks.

Ohio State cornerback Ashton Youboty is one of several highly ranked defensive backs whose athleticism is more impressive than his game performance. Youboty, as expected, worked out well at the Ohio State, running the 40 in 4.44 seconds after measuring in at 6-0, 189 pounds. But on film Youboty shows a tendency to gamble and lose too much (four receptions per game).

Tennessee defensive back Jason Allen's medical reports are drawing red flags. Allen was rated as a possible top 15 pick previous to a hip dislocation this fall that forced him to miss most of the 2005 season. The former Vol was zooming back up the board after running the 40 in 4.39 seconds and posting a 39 1/2-inch vertical. In a reversal of thought, now there are concerns that Allen's hip could be a degenerative condition.

Auburn offensive tackle Marcus McNeill reminds scouts that he hasn't given up a sack since his freshman season, but a closer look at his film along with a mediocre performance at the Senior Bowl shows an inconsistent player. He has been unable to physically engulf defenders at the level despite measuring 6-8, 336.

Workout Watch

Southern California's Pro Day on April 2 was a dramatic production. Key results (also see risers, fallers): Running back Reggie Bush (4.33 in 40, 24 reps, 40 1/2-inch vertical); quarterback Matt Leinart soared 37 inches in the vertical, which was unexpected since he isn't known for his athleticism; safety Darnell Bing (38-inch vertical, 21 reps, 4.53 in 40); Times were electronic, which tend to be slower than manual.

Duke defensive end/outside linebacker Phillip Alexander, a favorite sleeper of some scouts, helped his cause with a strong Pro Day performance. Not invited to the Combine, Alexander measured in at 6-3 1/2 and 274 pounds. He ran a 4.70 and 4.74 and had a 37-inch vertical jump and lifted the bar 25 times at 225 pounds.

Michigan wide receiver Jason Avant, who had elected not to run at the Combine and then ran a pair of 4.8s at his first Pro Day, worked out again at Michigan and greatly improved his time. Avant, who was wearing a cast due to a fractured right hand during the initial Pro Day effort, has healed and ran a 4.62 and 4.64 for 12 representatives of teams, most notably Cincinnati Bengals head coach Marvin Lewis.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5483180

In the third installment of our Lions draft preview series, Bob Gaunt (Blackhat24 in our Lions forum) talks with Pro Football Weekly's Nolan Nawrocki. Nawrocki's chief responsibility is PFW's annual draft guide, and since taking over the guide in 2002 he has established himself as one of the industry leaders in draft information.

What about the Lions? Nawrocki says they made a good move with the QB position, bringing in two firey veterans like McCown and Kitna. "I think Josh McCown's got a lot of upside. I think he was in a raw situation in Arizona playing with a poor offensive line and in an environment that didn't encourage growth, with little support from the coaching staff. I think he's got a shot to develop into a better player than people expect." He believes the OL is an area they need to address. Fans may not like to hear this, but the WR situation needs to be addressed. "Mike Williams, from the last I heard, is up to 260 pounds. Scouts that have evaluated their receiving corps a year ago did not think they had a solid No. 1 WR, and they were disappointed with Roy Williams. They got a lot to improve in that area heading into the coming season."


Last year, Pro Football Weekly gave the Lions draft a grade of B+, a year later would you stand by that grade? Nawrocki says "It's hard to say" since the Lions only got six starts out of last year's class. "I'm not a big fan of grading the draft in the weeks following. It's very short-sighted." If Shaun Cody replaces Dan Wilkinson in the lineup and matures, it'll lend support to that grade. Stanley Wilson will have a shot to start. Mike Williams is very immature, but he is young. If he does mature and become a pro, the grade could pan out. "It may have been too strong of a grade to put on at the time."


Gaunt say in this year's PFW draft preview, Nawrocki has the Lions taking Michael Huff. How likely is that to happen, and how good is he? Nawrocki says there's a five- to 10-percent chance of Huff being there at No. 9. "There's a good chance he'll go sooner." Oakland and Buffalo will take a hard look at him. "I think he's an exceptional talent... There's a lot to like about him. I don't think you're going to miss with Mike Huff."


Lions DT Dan Wilkinson may retire or ask to be traded. If that happens how will that impact the draft strategy? Nawrocki calls Wilkinson "a lazy underachiever. He doesn't like to work." He will have a hard time surviving under a disciplinarian like Marinelli. His tenure in Detroit will likely be short. Nawrocki's heard from sources in Detroit that they do like Oregon DT Haloti Ngata, but Florida State DT Brodrick Bunkley is a better fit at No. 9. "He's an upfield pass-rusher. A three technique, very quick. Those are the hard guys to find in the Cover 2, the Tampa-type defense." Defensive tackle or cornerback are the biggest needs in Detroit, so it'll be one or the other.


What about the Lions' linebacking corps? Nawrocki says you want linebackers who can run in the Tampa-2 defense, like a Boss Bailey. "I'm not sure that the guys they got are quite the caliber of players you want." He says Lions coaches believe they will make-do with what they have, so it won't likely be a priority in this draft.


The left guard spot was supposed to be filled by Rick DeMulling last year, but that didn't work out. How will this factor into the Lions' needs? Nawrocki says guards aren't a high priority. Typically you find a good one in the third or fourth round. There's a lot of converted tackles who play guards who will be sitting there for the Lions.


The Lions don't have a fourth-round pick. Can you give some names at guard who they might like in the third or fifth rounds? Nawrocki says Cornell's Kevin Boothe and Bloomsburg's Jahri Evans, but those are strictly developmental guys with a lot of upside. He says the Lions like Texas players, so Will Allen could be their pick. Or Dan Stevenson from Notre Dame. "They'll look for toughness, they're going to look for discipline. There should be some solid interior linemen in the draft."


New OL coach Larry Beightol has done wonders with late rounders in Green Bay. Nawrocki says he should be influential in the OL decision.

You know what they say, "you really can't go wrong drafting guys from Bloomsburg".

All the Lions beat writers are saying Mike Williams is down to 235, not up at 260. They are also saying he wants to get down to 225 and be more like Roy in terms of body type. If that's true, good. If not, why not convert him to a TE?

All the Lions beat writers are saying Mike Williams is down to 235, not up at 260. They are also saying he wants to get down to 225 and be more like Roy in terms of body type. If that's true, good. If not, why not convert him to a TE?

Do you really want to develop a TE that cannot block? If our O'line was deeper and stronger than possible but we have no use for a non blocking TE - that's what Pollard's for.

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?id=2425818&sport=headlines&ft=ss

Texans appear to be focusing on Williams, not Bush

Len Pasquarelli


Even as Houston Texans officials continued to insist they have made no decision about the first selection in the draft, there were strong indications Friday afternoon that the team has redirected its focus to North Carolina State defensive end Mario Williams.
Texans executives were in substantive negotiations with Ben Dogra, the representative for Williams, throughout the day. Conversely, ESPN.com learned that the agent for Southern California tailback and Heisman Trophy winner Reggie Bush had not heard from the Texans, as of late Friday afternoon, in more than 24 hours.
The two sides spoke twice Thursday, but only briefly and made no progress toward an accord. During the week, progress was incremental and one person close to the discussions termed them "a little bit like being in quicksand."
In addition, league sources told ESPN.com that, in terms of guaranteed money, the latest offer made to Williams exceeds the best proposal made to Bush.
Minus any conversations with the Bush camp since Thursday, there seemed little chance the Texans could strike a pre-draft accord with the draft's highest-profile performer even if they were to jump-start the negotiations on Friday evening.
Texans general manager Charley Casserly had cautioned earlier in the week that anyone concluding the team had decided on Bush and was only using Williams as leverage was mistaken. He reiterated that the Texans were serious about both players, negotiating with both agents, and that one of the two would be the top pick.
Dogra, however, was originally reluctant to enter into negotiations because he felt that his client might be used to force Bush into a deal. Clearly, the Texans convinced him that was not the case.
Were the Texans to choose Williams, it would mark the first time since 2000 that a defensive player was the first prospect off the board. The Cleveland Browns chose defensive Courtney Brown with the first pick that year.
The choice of Williams by the Texans could also dramatically alter the landscape of the early segment of the first round. The New Orleans Saints, with the second choice, have indicated they would snap up Bush if he fell to their slot. But the Saints had hinted, in general, that they might entertain trade offers for their pick.
The availability of Bush at the No. 2 spot would almost certainly elicit trade offers. Len Pasquarelli is a senior NFL writer for ESPN.com

And LenDale White just keeps hurting his stock.


NFL | L. White had positive test?
Sat, 29 Apr 2006 00:23:38 -0700

Scott Wolf, of the Press Telegram, reports USC RB LenDale White reportedly tested positive for an undisclosed drug, according to multiple sources, which could affect his stock the NFL draft. White spoke briefly to a reporter Friday, April 28, but sounded unconcerned about the situation. "(The NFL) ain't worried about it," he said. "The issue's been addressed." Several sources said the test took place at the NFL Combine in late February. "If it's out, it's got to be a Combine test," said a source with knowledge of NFL drug testing. "Some teams also give their own tests but those are at individual workouts and no one releases those."

LMFAO@Buffalo

ROFLMFAO@Matt Leinart

From the NFL Archives:

kdawg32086
01-08-2006, 10:49 PM

Vince is almost a lock to go at #3. Tennessee is stupid enough to take him, after he's called McNair his idol. lol. At least HoustonZ(or whoever gets this) and New Orleans are smart enough to realize that he's a one dimensional wannabe Michael Vick.

Well played!

LOL@you lions fans and media that swore we'd get a qb. Al Davis owns the "experts" again. Huff in, woodson out. break another leg chuck.

Thank heavens Huff got picked before #9.

After watching him get raped in back-to-back Rose Bowls by Edwards and Jarrett I wanted no part of him.
vince young is getting drafted high based on two bowl games. but he's very overrated IMO. Huff overall has been the best DB in the draft. hmmm well its not a worry for you now. :)

It's just amazing how little the draft "experts" really know. Just looking over a few mocks compared to what's really happened so far, and after the top 9-10, it's really such a crapshoot.

LOL@you lions fans and media that swore we'd get a qb. Al Davis owns the "experts" again. Huff in, woodson out. break another leg chuck.




[smilie=totlach.gif]

LOL@you lions fans and media that swore we'd get a qb. Al Davis owns the "experts" again. Huff in, woodson out. break another leg chuck.

If Young was available, I have no doubt that the Raiders would've picked him.

LOL@you lions fans and media that swore we'd get a qb. Al Davis owns the "experts" again. Huff in, woodson out. break another leg chuck.

If Young was available, I have no doubt that the Raiders would've picked him.
weird. the same thing was said about USC's QB Cryinghart. :). dare i say even more adamantly than Young since he was considered to be an Usc alumn(Davis's former coaching grounds).

just admit that most people dont know what Al Davis is thinking, and to compensate they make up these crazy rules of thought to try and figure him out. Vince young is athletic, so Al Davis will pick him. very expert analysis. We have a seasoned vet Scramble QB(aaron brooks) and a Strong arm QB with a great ability to make plays (walter, who is just as good if not better than leinhart IMO). so why would we draft what we already have? oh yea, because Al Davis likes players from USC and athletic players.

In the History of the silver and Black we have never had a run first qb start for us. we had qb's capable of running. but never a vince young/Micheal vick type. the one michael vick type qb we drafted was immediately converted to WR(ronald curry). Yet we were destined to pick vince young had he fell to #7? Man the Oakland raiders wouldnt have the prestigious history that they have(unlike the lions not so prestigious history), if the guy whose owned the team since forever was grabbing guys, just because they were athletic at every position. Al likes speedy athletic Db's, WR's, and LB's. Every other position is picked based on a whole different mindset. The QB must have a rocket arm or the football IQ to make up for not having a strong arm.. Vince has neither. yet somehow you swear we woulda picked him. With all this in mind, i just dont see it.

weird. the same thing was said about USC's QB Cryinghart. :). dare i say even more adamantly than Young since he was considered to be an Usc alumn(Davis's former coaching grounds).

just admit that most people dont know what Al Davis is thinking, and to compensate they make up these crazy rules of thought to try and figure him out. Vince young is athletic, so Al Davis will pick him. very expert analysis. We have a seasoned vet Scramble QB(aaron brooks) and a Strong arm QB with a great ability to make plays (walter, who is just as good if not better than leinhart IMO). so why would we draft what we already have? oh yea, because Al Davis likes players from USC and athletic players.

In the History of the silver and Black we have never had a run first qb start for us. we had qb's capable of running. but never a vince young/Micheal vick type. the one michael vick type qb we drafted was immediately converted to WR(ronald curry). Yet we were destined to pick vince young had he fell to #7? Man the Oakland raiders wouldnt have the prestigious history that they have(unlike the lions not so prestigious history), if the guy whose owned the team since forever was grabbing guys, just because they were athletic at every position. Al likes speedy athletic Db's, WR's, and LB's. Every other position is picked based on a whole different mindset. The QB must have a rocket arm or the football IQ to make up for not having a strong arm.. Vince has neither. yet somehow you swear we woulda picked him. With all this in mind, i just dont see it.
Walter better than Leinhart? Aaron Brooks? [smilie=rofl.gif]

And Leinhart was never on the Raiders draft board. The only players that the Raiders had targeted were Hawk, Williams, Bush, Huff and Young.

Oh and BTW, Young is nothing like Vick.

And Leinhart was never on the Raiders draft board. The only players that the Raiders had targeted were Hawk, Williams, Bush, Huff and Young.

Oh and BTW, Young is nothing like Vick.
says who?


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft0...ory?id=2418315
Al Davis expressed how he thought he looked like kenny stabler to him. coupled with his visit to oakland the media jumped all over it. most guys had them picking young if he fell to them or leinhart if he fell. The main point on top of that is that they swore we were picking a qb. its hilarious that you even think young was going to oakland after how way off these so called experts have been. they sucked but they were right about young because?.....

we had visits from leinhart and young all the same. and leinharts visit was by far more productive. so where are you getting this imaginary targeting for Young? I mean if you have a connect with some raider scouts i concede on this. If you don't, to be fair with all due respect, then explain something with substance that says we were "targeting" Young. dont believe draft rumor garbage. guys always fuck up trying to see who we are targeting. i'd rather go by obvious history. Tell me what "run first" weak armed qb have the oakland raiders drafted ever in their history, outside of Ronald curry who was immediately converted to WR as soon as he got to camp. You believe something based on a rumor and i'm noting our very consistent drafting pattern history. we've drafted one athletic qb in our history and made him a WR. that doesnt scream Vince Young at all.


Lastly, whether you like it or not, VY is a run first qb and will be compared to the leagues most popular run first qb. for the record he's slower and has much worse mechanics. he's also bigger and stronger though. he's like cullpepper without the arm and runs more than him. bad combination to me. And not a guy we would make use of in a vertical offense.

now Andrew Walter vs matt leinhart. Walter is quicker, he's better at avoiding the rush, and his arm is by far stronger that leinhart. what does matt have over him? more experience winning in college, a better team around him, 2 monster RB's keeping the pressure off of him, way better o-line in college, and a slightly better checkdown eye. Of course to anyone who believing the leinhart hype would laugh at the comparisom w/o really looking at the two. Either way its all good and we'll find out what leinharts worth in arizona. if he can't do anything with that receiving core he's a bust. I'm content with my teams qb scenario. Aaron Brooks is no long term solution. But Walter will eventually be the guy. But if we keep improving our defense like we have with huff, darnell bing, and thomas howard. we'll be alright.

Hmmm the lions draft has been shitty. but i must admit they were a solid team in the first place. its gonna be whether the "me first" guys that have flooded your roster conform to marinelli. if they dont you may have to overhaul again. but you guys have all you need to get to the playoffs this year. even have a shitty division prime for the taking(though GB has made some damn hot picks and got C-Wood too) .

its gonna be a fun year. atleast at the start. :o

also, the two most prolific qb's in the pac 10 over the past few years were matt leinhart and Andrew Walter(walter breaking elways 22 year old pac-10 TD record before Matt broke his mark after he went to the NFL). Matt had reggie bush and lendale white. Walter had nothing even half as good..he measures up to leihart quite well with nowhere near as much talent around him in ASU.

Quote of the draft....

“I'm not going to sit up here and make excuses about anything. I understand that situation. If I was a GM, I would have a few doubts myself.”—Marcus Vick

I know this is past its time but my favorite thing about the NFL Draft is that these guys spend 4 years skipping classes and getting people to take their exams for them and then they slip down on draft day because they can't pass a test ... makes perfect sense ...

Thanks for all of the profiles, Vinny.

RAIDERS MOVING BING TO 'BACKER

Adam Schefter reports that the Oakland Raiders will move fourth-round selection Darnell Bing from safety to linebacker.

Bing, who like most of his USC colleagues ended up sliding in the draft, is considered a little slow to be a safety, but he'll be regarded as fast for a linebacker. And he's definitely got the size to make it work.

Gutz,

Know anything about this?

RAIDERS MOVING BING TO 'BACKER

Adam Schefter reports that the Oakland Raiders will move fourth-round selection Darnell Bing from safety to linebacker.

Bing, who like most of his USC colleagues ended up sliding in the draft, is considered a little slow to be a safety, but he'll be regarded as fast for a linebacker. And he's definitely got the size to make it work.

Gutz,

Know anything about this?
yes its true. Art Shell confirmed it. He also confirmed that Huff will play SS for us next to FS Sweigert. As a DB Bing is a lil slow. As a LB is fast as fuck. SS to OLB isnt a hard transition(i.e. robobacker urlacher). he just needs to gain about 8-13 pounds.