@vgoodwill
Ben Gordon to the Bobcats for Corey Magette, sources tell Detroit News

Affirmative.

Benny G and a 2013 protected 1st rounder for Maggette.

Maggette's contract terms please?

ESPN:


The deal provides significant long-term savings for the Pistons. Maggette is in the last year of his contract that pays him $10.9 million during the 2012-13 season.

We drop one year off BG's deal.
Lotto protected next year... top 8 protected 2014... top one protected 2015... unprotected 2016.

So basically we are a free agent player in a year or we can deal Mags for something nice.

Remember when Joe was King?

:KING:

So basically we are a free agent player in a year or we can deal Mags for something nice.

Like a player with a contract like Ben Gordon's and a future protected 1st?

Like a player with a contract like Ben Gordon's and a future protected 1st?
Like a young player that has proven something at a reasonable price.

We traded a pick for Bad Porn?

i'm furious because the ESPN headline actually says that WE got the 1st rounder from the bobcats...however when you read the article, it's clear that we're the ones sending them the pick. so that definitely takes the feeling of overwhelming joy from me.

but it's still a good deal i'd say. charlie v gonna get the amnesty now? that would officially do away with those 2 horrific FA signings.

"Sources confirm to Ken Berger that the first round pick is lottery protected in 2013, top-eight in 2014, top-one in 2015 and unprotected in 2016"


Fuck this. This team is lottery bound for a while so it looks like Charlotte is going to get a damn good pick in 2015 or 2016. I'd rather have had one more year of BG and kept the pick.

yeah i'm torn on that aspect of the trade too.

we'll have to hope we strike lottery gold in the next 2 years and get our franchise player.

what's the FA class looking like after this season? if we amnesty charlie v, we should have a lot of cap room. not that i expect detroit to be a place the top FAs would go, but one can dream.....

we never should've re-signed stuckey and particularly prince. this team needs a complete overhaul and a couple of years of HIGH lottery picks.

I can see both sides of the trade for us:

Ilike the trade... because it now forces Joe to get this team into the fucking playoffs within a season or 2.

AND

If we amnesty Nova and let Maggette walk we'll have some good money to throw around...

AND

which makes this coming Draft choice even more important!

Monroe + Knight + WHO gives us a very good foundation to build around...

I don't like the trade...because we give up a future first... and IMO we should be trying to acquire future firsts!

AND

Maggette is shit, BG is shit... swapping turds and giving away picks is stupid

AND

At the end of the day BG is capable of taking over a game when he's on... Maggette isn't IMO

I will LOVE this trade if we draft well and if we use the coming cap space well...

When can we package Maxiell and Maggette in a trade? Both expiring... if only we had some picks to compliment the cap space!

just had a quick glance at the 2013 FA class. don't get too excited. josh smith is probably the biggest name who could potentially be willing to come to detroit- IF we show a ton of promise this season. but even he's doubtful IMO.

and of course there's no way on earth we have a shot at chris paul or dwight howard. there are some other lower level guys but nobody i'm particularly excited about.

i think we've shown that FA is the worst way to build a team as you overspend for players. this is why the more i think, the more frustrated i am with trading away a 1st. like P said, we need to be stockpiling picks. our only real hope to build this talent base if through the draft. one of the articles i read mentioned how the trade gives us flexibility to re-sign monroe down the line. really? we need to do a lot better than just re-sign 1 of our only solid young talents.

we need to build through high lottery picks and (possibly) smart trades. however this trade means that we can only build through the draft for the next 2 years and then probably have to give up a valuable asset to charlotte.

although, i could definitely see us being a playoff team in 2 years. is that all we're aiming for though? to be a fringe playoff team with no hope of ever winning a title again? no thanks. i think we need/ed to tear this team down to knight, monroe, jerebko and maybe 1 or 2 other role players. and go with a youth movement that will allow us to develop AND get high draft picks. re-signing prince was ridiculous and even stuckey is not a guy i want to build around or tie in to that kind of contract. let's hope we can overcome those poor signings.

oh well, let's hope joe hits a couple of homeruns on thursday night. lord knows we need it.

On another note, Charlotte is definitely poised for a good turn around. Biyombo could be a good defensive anchor as soon as this year. Walker and BG is a lot of offensive power to have, and they still have this years #2 pick as well. I'm guessing they'll take robinson or a SF now. add that to their next picks as well the pistons next picks and you've got a nice looking team for the future with speed, defense and shooting.

He might have never got over on him as a player, but MJ just fucked up Dumars here as a GM. (who'da thunk it?)

Not a fan of competing with several other teams that have max $'s available for F.A.s
The extra wiggle room does allow you to win F.A. battles against teams with just the MLE to offer
IMO the real value is what teams are willing to deal to get some relief (picks & young talent).
If played right we could add two above average players without breaking the bank (plus re-sign Monroe).

IMO the real value is what teams are willing to deal to get some relief (picks & young talent).
If played right we could add two above average players without breaking the bank (plus re-sign Monroe).

THIS is what some of us wanted to do when Joe was King!

Use the space to absorb 2 year contracts (who gives up an expiring?) AND get a future first round pick for helping a team get under the tax threshold or clear some dead weight early

2 Quick questions no one might be able to answer:

Does the pick we give the Bobcats have to be our own pick?

Could we trade our 2 second rounders this Draft for a 2012 first and then give Charlotte that pick as payment?

These are my thoughts. Any first rounder, then we are good.

What this shows more than anything is that we are Not going to Amnesty anyone. We could have done it on Ben G but giving away money is not an option. The reality is the possibilities. We will have cap room next season and absolutely no one worth resigning (sorry Austin). 29M in 2013 and more if we remove ourselves of Charlie V. If we suck, which is imperative and probable, we can add a high pick and a quality free agent to Monroe, Knight, Stuck, Tayshaun, and this years pick. That would be 7 pieces in place. Too bad we just couldn't lose a couple more damn games this year.

Now if Joe can move someone or our pick for Houstons three first I will do backflips.

Wow the Pistons made a trade! first since July 2009, i still can't believe this happened!

I think its pretty clear Dumars is not willing to ever tank and follow the OKC model for rebuilding, it can work, but you have to be really lucky and actually be able to draft a guy like Durant.
Dumars won't rebuild the Pistons through the draft, we already got Monroe and Knight, plus this years pick (+Stuckey) thats a solid building block, other improvements have to come via trade or free agency. (remember thats how we got Chauncey, RIP, Big Ben and Sheed)
After the amnesty is used on Charlie we could look at 30 + mil in capspace for next summer, of course it all the depends who you sign. Everything is possible from Big Ben and Chauncey for MLE money to Charlie and BG for allstar money, its risky but its a possible faster rebuilding-plan than to tank until you get that superstar.

This was a good trade, it really opens us many trading opportunities and flexibility, the question now is can Dumars get the right guys or will he blow this opportunity again. Then again if the rebuild doesnt go as fast as the Pistons hope, they could give up a pretty decent lottery pick to the Bobcats, it all depends on the summer of '13 and what happens with all that capspace. This team lacks a lot of talent to be a playoff team, 3 decent guys aint enough.
Right now i am just happy Bengo (and soon Charlie) is gone, time for a fresh start.

There's gotta be more to this. Gores is a business man and there's no way that he's happy looking at all of those empty seats in The Palace. Corey Maggette isn't going to put asses in those seats, and i'm sure they know that.

I wouldn't even say that the big goal here is wins, or even the future right now. The goal has to be the fanbase. I went to a couple Pistons last year, and the crowd is just a little bigger than the crowd for the Oakland University ball games. They probably could of used the same building. There's no way that Gores is content with that. Not to mention what a shitty investment it would be to idly sit by and pay millions of dollars in salary for team that draws 2,000 fans for games, sells no jerseys, ETC.

I'm thinking there might even be a trade that includes young talent LEAVING Detroit. Only because that's the only thing anyone could possibly have an interest in that could give the Pistons a return of some one who's marketable and can put asses in those seats again.

Who is "available" via trade that would put asses in those seats?

Who is "available" via trade that would put asses in those seats?

i dunno.

maybe a player expiring that is unlikely to resign with their team?

maybe tyreke evans or some other dude who's looking out of place on their current squad?

maybe brandon roy is talking with arnie kander and it looks good or some shit?

the point is there's no way they're going to pay this much money this year and expect a profit from this current roster, so something has to be up.

I'm not against the idea of having a "star" player that sells tickets and a team that plays an "attractive" brand of basketball

I just don't know who we could get that would put a lot of asses in those seats

I'm not against the idea of having a "star" player that sells tickets and a team that plays an "attractive" brand of basketball

I just don't know who we could get that would put a lot of asses in those seats

well, in actuality the pistons could trade for just about anyone, even full fledged stars like howard . it's just a question of what they wanna give up.

lol - let's try and "keep it real" here

Ain't no fucking way we're getting Dwight Howard!

Josh Smith? I can see that happening... but does he put butts in seats?

I bet Monroe + 3 1sts + expirings would get us Dwight at the trade deadline next season.
Keeping Dwight would be an entirely different story.

lol

Dwight would bolt

I still believe the best way to build THIS team is via the Draft, not via free agency. Due to the climate I can't see any top flight free agent signing here.

By acquiring picks and/or young players through the Draft we put ourselves in a position to become the Thunder (unlikely) or put ourselves into position to do what Boston did... trading youth and expirings for star players to team with the stud they already had

The BG + pick to Charlotte for Maggette trade gives us cap flexibility... and I'm sure Cho and his boys are banking on getting a Lotto pick out of us. Worst case scenario for Charlotte? They get a mid teen pick from us while having BG to make them "competitive"...

It's now on Joe and his boys to make that pick worthless... I think that's do-able but time will tell

lol

Dwight would bolt

I still believe the best way to build THIS team is via the Draft, not via free agency. Due to the climate I can't see any top flight free agent signing here.

By acquiring picks and/or young players through the Draft we put ourselves in a position to become the Thunder (unlikely) or put ourselves into position to do what Boston did... trading youth and expirings for star players to team with the stud they already had

The BG + pick to Charlotte for Maggette trade gives us cap flexibility... and I'm sure Cho and his boys are banking on getting a Lotto pick out of us. Worst case scenario for Charlotte? They get a mid teen pick from us while having BG to make them "competitive"...

It's now on Joe and his boys to make that pick worthless... I think that's do-able but time will tell

Fuck the draft. It worked for Oklahoma and no one else. Shit even Oklahoma needed to trade for Perkins to get a real big, hope and pray their guys want to extend and they still might be losing some very important dudes in the near future because those rookie deals don't last long. Even right now with Drummond. The Pistons could very well end up developing a promising young center to go and kick ass for another team five years from now. What's the point of that?
Before you try to twist that all around, you definitely try to get good players in the draft, but you don't rely on that. The chance of getting a great player is very slim, and then they can still walk away from the team just when they hit their prime and take their talents to south beach. Allan Houston. Grant Hill. Lebron James. It's all the same shit. In the Pistons case, they have to trade for players because no one wants to be going to Detroit, especially not now. The fucked up shit is if you look at 2004 you'd see that's how the roster was put together.

as for howard, naw it's not likely they'd do a trade for him because it'd probably involve every young guy on the pistons for a one year rental.

and yes Josh Smith would be asses in the seats. He might not fill them up, but he'd draw more then the same team who sucked shit the last two years and made us ashamed to talk pistons in public.

Before I twist shit?

You don't know this but in the last 24 hours I have read approx a dozen articles on line related to tanking and the Draft... I just kept following the links in each article and kept reading.

While it's true it's incredibly rare that a team will acquire an absolute franchise changing player in a Draft what can not be disputed is that Draft Picks are GOLD when it comes to building a team

Take Boston as the example: Had a bunch of young guys and Paul Pierce... used the young guys, expirings and picks to get KG and Ray Allen.... so yep, fuck the Draft! Except the Draft is what essentially got them the pieces it took to create their big 3

Take the Spurs... drafted Duncan, Parker and Manu

Take the Mavs.... drafted Dirk

Take the Lakers... drafted Kobe

Until you get that great player... or a group of quality players to build around it's all just bullshit IMO

Before I twist shit?

You don't know this but in the last 24 hours I have read approx a dozen articles on line related to tanking and the Draft... I just kept following the links in each article and kept reading.

While it's true it's incredibly rare that a team will acquire an absolute franchise changing player in a Draft what can not be disputed is that Draft Picks are GOLD when it comes to building a team

Take Boston as the example: Had a bunch of young guys and Paul Pierce... used the young guys, expirings and picks to get KG and Ray Allen.... so yep, fuck the Draft! Except the Draft is what essentially got them the pieces it took to create their big 3

Take the Spurs... drafted Duncan, Parker and Manu

Take the Mavs.... drafted Dirk

Take the Lakers... drafted Kobe

Until you get that great player... or a group of quality players to build around it's all just bullshit IMO
what? that didn't even make any sense.
so boston traded for star players, and that is a model for drafting to build a team how? How the fuck are you trying to twist a team trading for star players into an argument for building through the draft? just because players come into the NBA from the draft?

what? that didn't even make any sense.
so boston traded for star players, and that is a model for drafting to build a team how? How the fuck are you trying to twist a team trading for star players into an argument for building through the draft? just because players come into the NBA from the draft?

Ummm I don't mean to be an asshole to you... well, yeah I fucking do

Are you that stupid that you don't realise HOW Boston acquired KG and Ray Allen? WHO did they give up to get KG? WHAT did they give Seattle for Ray Allen? HOW did they get Paul Pierce?

Google it you dickhead and then maybe I'll waste some more time schooling your cocky arse on how the Draft is rather fucking important when it comes to team building! Is it the ONLY way to build a team? Of course not and I never said it was.

What I said was and I quote cause you're ignorant:


I still believe the best way to build THIS team is via the Draft, not via free agency. Due to the climate I can't see any top flight free agent signing here.

By acquiring picks and/or young players through the Draft we put ourselves in a position to become the Thunder (unlikely) or put ourselves into position to do what Boston did... trading youth and expirings for star players to team with the stud they already had


Umm yeah - pretty fucking simple

Reading is FUN-damental... don't just fucking argue with me cause it's me and we don't agree 99.9 times out of 100

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/46559/good-teams-know-what-the-draft-offers

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/40055/does-tanking-even-work

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/39318/tanking-is-the-tip-of-the-iceberg

http://wagesofwins.com/2012/04/02/why-tanking-doesnt-work-in-the-nba/

http://www.freakonomics.com/2012/03/26/you-don%E2%80%99t-need-to-be-bad-to-be-good-in-the-nba-2/

http://wagesofwins.com/2012/04/02/bad-to-good-the-treadmill-to-mediocrity/

http://basketballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2203

http://www.rodneyfort.com/Academic/Forthcoming/FortForLiam.pdf

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/39546/the-oklahoma-city-unicorns

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/39842/nba-today-the-team-that-makes-the-player

Ummm I don't mean to be an asshole to you... well, yeah I fucking do

Are you that stupid that you don't realise HOW Boston acquired KG and Ray Allen? WHO did they give up to get KG? WHAT did they give Seattle for Ray Allen? HOW did they get Paul Pierce?

Google it you dickhead and then maybe I'll waste some more time schooling your cocky arse on how the Draft is rather fucking important when it comes to team building! Is it the ONLY way to build a team? Of course not and I never said it was.

What I said was and I quote cause you're ignorant:



Umm yeah - pretty fucking simple

Reading is FUN-damental... don't just fucking argue with me cause it's me and we don't agree 99.9 times out of 100

yyeah, you trade away draft prospects and picks for players who can actually do something to help your team., and that's not an argument for the draft, it's argument for trading.

since you wanna go personal, go suck a kangaroos dick and hop back into your mom's syphilitic cunt. bitch.

Trading away prospects (that you have actually drafted!) and DRAFT picks is an argument for USING the DRAFT

You can't trade them if you don't have them

People point to the Thunder model and say "it's rare"...

I point to the Boston model and you say it's an argument for trading!

The Thunder got what they got through the Draft... they selected well and have thus far kept them

The Celtics got what they got through the Draft... they selected enough quality and potential to trade for KG and Ray Allen

Same same... and it all comes down to the Draft

But bury your head in that syphilitic cunt like you normally do when we "debate" issues.

Better yet point to a model that you think does work... doesn't even have to be a team that made the Finals... the playoffs will do.

Better yet point to a model that you think does work... doesn't even have to be a team that made the Finals... the playoffs will do.

the 2004 detroit pistons. that's the model that works.

the 2004 detroit pistons. that's the model that works.

LMMFAO

That is your model that works?

Ok... I'll try to keep this simple:

Koolaid names the rarest of the rare as THE model to success in the NBA... a collection of talent that somehow when put together were much, much greater than the sum of their parts and destroyed all before them on the way to winning the 2004 Title

It's fucking awesome that the Pistons did it.. but in the last 20 years no other team has done what that team did!

Not ONE!

So how the fuck is that the model for success in the NBA?

It happened ONCE! Lightning in a bottle! If you want to make the arguement that the Thunder have done the same just with "better" stars then that's cool but the fact remains the DRAFT and DRAFT picks is what you need to build an amazing team.

Don't believe me?

Let's use the 2004 Pistons as the example...

Our starting 5 for those with poor memory

Big Ben Wallace = arrived via sign and trade... we gave up our Franchise player (who we DRAFTED) Grant Hill for Wallace. We also got Chucky Atkins as part of the deal!

Rasheed Wallace = arrived via trade... who/what did we trade to get Sheed? TWO future first round DRAFT picks (one to Boston, one to Atlanta) plus Atkins. Who else did we trade? Lindsey Hunter (who we drafted), Rebracca (we acquired his rights before he ever set foot in the league) and Bob Sura (Chris Mills went from Boston to Atlanta too)

So far Koolaid your model = Boston... except we didn't use cheap contracts and picks to land Ben and Sheed - we used our franchise player, picks and cheap contracts

Tayshaun Prince = we DRAFTED and developed him!

Rip Hamilton = arrived via trade...

Chauncey Billups = MLE free agent signing

So, umm yeah... that team needed the Draft to become what it became... even if you don't count the Big Ben trade the fact remains we wouldn't have landed Sheed without those TWO future first round picks to trade

And that is how you build through the Draft

You use your picks to grab talent... you should (in theory) find a quality starter or 2 or 3 in the Lottery... then you use expiring contracts, cheap players/prospects AND picks to add the final pieces. A quality trade here, a great MLE signing there and BOOM! you have a quality team

But it all starts at the Draft. THAT is why teams want additional first round picks.

Joe has scored in the last 3 Drafts... it will take time but with a smart free agent signing and a smart trade the pick we sent to Charlotte might be late teens/mid 20's as opposed to a Lottery pick

Ok... I'll try to keep this simple:

Koolaid names the rarest of the rare as THE model to success in the NBA... a collection of talent that somehow when put together were much, much greater than the sum of their parts and destroyed all before them on the way to winning the 2004 Title

It's fucking awesome that the Pistons did it.. but in the last 20 years no other team has done what that team did!

Not ONE!

So how the fuck is that the model for success in the NBA?

It happened ONCE! Lightning in a bottle! If you want to make the arguement that the Thunder have done the same just with "better" stars then that's cool but the fact remains the DRAFT and DRAFT picks is what you need to build an amazing team.

Don't believe me?

Let's use the 2004 Pistons as the example...

Our starting 5 for those with poor memory

Big Ben Wallace = arrived via sign and trade... we gave up our Franchise player (who we DRAFTED) Grant Hill for Wallace. We also got Chucky Atkins as part of the deal!

Rasheed Wallace = arrived via trade... who/what did we trade to get Sheed? TWO future first round DRAFT picks (one to Boston, one to Atlanta) plus Atkins. Who else did we trade? Lindsey Hunter (who we drafted), Rebracca (we acquired his rights before he ever set foot in the league) and Bob Sura (Chris Mills went from Boston to Atlanta too)

So far Koolaid your model = Boston... except we didn't use cheap contracts and picks to land Ben and Sheed - we used our franchise player, picks and cheap contracts

Tayshaun Prince = we DRAFTED and developed him!

Rip Hamilton = arrived via trade...

Chauncey Billups = MLE free agent signing

So, umm yeah... that team needed the Draft to become what it became... even if you don't count the Big Ben trade the fact remains we wouldn't have landed Sheed without those TWO future first round picks to trade

And that is how you build through the Draft

You use your picks to grab talent... you should (in theory) find a quality starter or 2 or 3 in the Lottery... then you use expiring contracts, cheap players/prospects AND picks to add the final pieces. A quality trade here, a great MLE signing there and BOOM! you have a quality team

But it all starts at the Draft. THAT is why teams want additional first round picks.

Joe has scored in the last 3 Drafts... it will take time but with a smart free agent signing and a smart trade the pick we sent to Charlotte might be late teens/mid 20's as opposed to a Lottery pick

and trading away draft picks doesn't mean the draft is valuable. idiot. i'm done with you.

You're done because your example was the rarest of the rarest case in the modern NBA... and that team - OUR TEAM - became what it became because we dealt our DRAFTED Franchise player and TWO First round DRAFT Picks!

It doesn't prove that the Draft is valueable?

Are you really that fucking dense?

By acquiring FUTURE first round picks we put ourselves in a win-win situation... you can always keep them and use them... or you can package them with craptacular players with expiring contracts (or middle of the road players with good contracts) for a fucking awesome player!

But according to you Draft picks aren't valueable!

You're done with me? Why? We don't argue! We don't debate! I merely point out how fucking stupid you are when I feel like it! You should go buy a lotto ticket and thank your lucky stars I'm not here more often to point out how fucking moronic you really are

Get back on the short bus

But according to you Draft picks aren't valueable!

where did i say that?

I thought you were done with me?

Hang on, I'll go back and check:

You actually posted


and trading away draft picks doesn't mean the draft is valuable. idiot. i'm done with you

I see now... I was mistaken.

I thought you called me an idiot when in actual fact you were addressing yourself. Are you actually done with yourself? Are you gonna neck yourself? I hope not - no need to kill yourself simply because your simple

I say you say Draft picks aren't valuable

You say trading away Draft picks doesn't mean the Draft is valuable

Semantics, sumantics