yesterday, in an off day, verlander had one of his better days in his march to the cy.

becket gave up 5 in 5. loss dropped him to 9-6, and his era blew up to 2.4 (now behind JV).

better,

that fag weaver gave up 8 in 4.2. record is 14-6 and his era bumped up to 2.13.

if the vote were today, verlander would be the unanimous #1.

I was hoping for pics and highlights of Cy Young.

How about Mae Young instead?
http://www.pwhf.org/halloffamers/bios/biopics/young.jpg

http://content7.flixster.com/photo/11/78/24/11782473_gal.jpg

*whistles*

Hubba hubba!

this thread just got a bit more interesting.

http://image2.findagrave.com/photos250/photos/2004/9/3252_1073764602.jpg

How many of his starts were you able to catch, Tahoe?

I'm still not counting out Jered "Dream" Weaver:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nn0L6055gs

also, cc gave up 5 and took a loss on friday.

weaver is a putzing faggot.

18 wins with 40 games left to go. he's got a chance to really drive up his trade value.

i think he should be in the mvp talks. i guess the front runners are gonzo and granderson, but it'd be hard to argue that anyone has been more important to their team the jv.

sux

Justin Verlander deserves Cy Young and MVP (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentary/story/_/id/6878266/justin-verlander-deserves-cy-young-mvp)

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6921420/passing-buck

Pitchers aren't MVP's.

except when they are.

Those at-bats Verlander had with all those grand slams.

all those scoreless innings bautista and granderson threw.

do pitchers get paid less than hitters?

weaver gave up 6 in 5, meaning verlander now leads in ERA. he's in line to win the pitching crown, and is in first in pretty much every noteworthy pitching category. wins, era, k's, whip, innings pitched.

all those scoreless innings bautista and granderson threw.

Scoreless innings has a prize. Its the Cy.

and sometimes the mvp.

He generated ZERO offense.

If they/you/anyone wants to include pitchers, then the criteria should be changed, imo.

the criteria already includes pitchers. pitchers have won in the past.

If they/you/anyone wants to exclude pitchers, then the criteria should be changed, imo

the criteria for most valuable player is the player who is most valuable. says nothing about needing to produce offense.

yeah, Verlander is the most valuable player to his team across the league. There's no doubt, really.

the criteria for most valuable player is the player who is most valuable. says nothing about needing to produce offense.

You don't even know what you are talking about.

the criteria already includes pitchers. pitchers have won in the past.

If they/you/anyone wants to exclude pitchers, then the criteria should be changed, imo

Dude, seriously, go read up a lil bit.

I'm not saying pitchers should be excluded, the criteria basically excludes them.

Change the criteria if you want them considered more often.

you're out of your element here, tahoe.


The scribes, LaVelle Neal of the Minneapolis's Star-Tribune and George King of the New York Post, said they could not justify giving the award to a player who participates every fifth day. Also, they argued, pitchers are eligible for the Cy Young Award, which Martinez won unanimously in 1999. That, even though MVP voters were asked to recluse themselves if they felt they could not vote for a pitcher.

The outrage went beyond that felt by Boston's passionate fans. "It really made (writers) all look very dumb," said Buster Olney, who covers the Yankees for the New York Times. "people were operating under different rules. The question of eligibility is a very basic thing. People were determining eligibility for themselves."

The modern MVP Award was established in 1931, when the Baseball Writers Association of America began polling three writers in each city. The modern practice of two writers per city began in 1961. Each voter ranks 10 players from each league, their only guidelines being that all players are eligible and that the MVP is the player that is most valuable to his team.

"It's not the best player," said Gordon Edes, who covers the Red Sox for the Boston Globe. "It is the most valuable player. There is some ambiguity there."

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FCI/is_12_59/ai_67045342/

Dude, seriously, go read up a lil bit.

I'm not saying pitchers should be excluded, the criteria basically excludes them.

Change the criteria if you want them considered more often.

i dont want them considered more often. i want them considered exactly as often as they are right now, which is whenever they are deserving.

verlander is deserving. this is a no brainer unless he derails himself in his last few starts.

Yeah he is on fire at the plate. Locked in the AJ. He is seeing the ball and hitting it.

Go read up on the criteria and you'll see how lil you know.

#29

Wow, find an article from some writers and you think you know the criteria.

Are you and DrRay drinking the same water thats making y'all so stupid today?

i see what your doing here... and i dont like it!

They usually prefer to give it to a non pitcher... maybe we should look at stats of previous mvp pitchers

“The rules of the voting remain the same as they were written on the first ballot in 1931: (1) actual value of a player to his team, that is, strength of offense and defense; (2) number of games played; (3) general character, disposition, loyalty and effort; (4) former winners are eligible; and (5) members of the committee may vote for more than one member of a team.”


So the very first criteria is 'strength of offense and defense'.

JV has ZERO offensive stats.

The 2nd criteria is 'number of games played' OUCH!

So JV plays every 4th of 5th day.

So the first and second criteria that they want you to look at JV fails. Not his fault. Not any pitchers fault. Its just how they wrote it up.

That said, he might win it. But he shouldn't based on the criteria.

you have a crappy interpretation of the criteria.

prince fielder is the frontrunner for nl mvp. him at first base is only slightly better than leaving first unoccupied. certainly comparable to jv being 0-4 with three strikeouts this year.

how does game played hurt jv? he leads the majors in starts and innings pitched. not OUCH!

if bautista played on a good team, he'd deserve it. but he doesnt. and none of the other top candidates have value that trump's jv's.

i dont get the self loathing thing going on here, tahoe. tigers dont get the mvp very often. we'll have it, this year.

you have a crappy interpretation of the criteria.

LOL!

prince fielder is the frontrunner for nl mvp. him at first base is only slightly better than leaving first unoccupied. certainly comparable to jv being 0-4 with three strikeouts this year.

how does game played hurt jv? Cuz thats the criteria for chrissakes. Quit arguing with me about it. Like I said, if you don't like it, change it. he leads the majors in starts and innings pitched. not OUCH!

if bautista played on a good team, he'd deserve it. but he doesnt. and none of the other top candidates have value that trump's jv's.

i dont get the self loathing thing going on here, tahoe. tigers dont get the mvp very often. we'll have it, this year.

Look, I'm a homer more than most around here, but the criteria for MVP is in black and white. Quit blaming the messenger.

so does roger have to give back his 1986 mvp?

and games played helps verlander. he hasnt missed a start. name another mvp candidate who can say the same.

They could easily drop 'offense' from the first part. And state that 'games played for pitchers is if they start every 4th or 5th day' and all would equal.

I think Pitcher would start to dominate the MVP award then. Maybe they are trying to keep an award for non-pitcher and have the Cy for pitchers.

I don't know, but rules are rules. or criteria is criteria.

so you admit your wrong then?

LMAO!

THE TEA PARTY AND REPUBLICAN CONGRESS MEMBERS FOR MVP

^ more stupid...from a troll no less.

THe average hitter gets like 700 plate appearances a year. Verlander will face over 900 batters this year.

^ more stupid...from a troll no less.

You know nothing about the criteria for this.

^ Troll

if playoff teams got to draft their roster verlander would be first pick. no question.

cabrerra isnt out of it. he's been consistently good all year but he's just now on his first hot streak. if this carries on till the playoffs, he has a chance.

the ops is down a tick, but whats hurt him all year has been the obp of our 1-2-3 hitters. i believe it still is the worst in the majors, which only shows how bad it must have been earlier in the season.

Verlander would be first pick.

He's the most valuable player to this team...the way most peeps think of MVP's. But that stupid fucked 'criteria' that they go by, sort of eliminates pitchers from the running.

has a pitcher ever won mvp?

Several have.

damnit vinny, i wanted tahoe to answer it.

i know pitchers have won. the tigers, alone, have had 3 pitchers win it. the first recipient of the AL mvp was a pitcher.

i just want to know how tahoe can go from that^ to "pitchers dont win mvps".

the funniest part is that the criteria is almost universally considered to be completely ambiguous. 'almost universally', save tahoe, who thinks that the rules are black and white.

i cant guarantee verlander wins the mvp. however, i can guarantee plenty of 'eat shit tahoe's in the mvp thread if he does.

b-diddy droppin some enlightenment on the old man today.

:cogent:

shit for brains

old shit for brains.

diarrhea old brains

Senile old bastard.

damnit vinny, i wanted tahoe to answer it.

i know pitchers have won. the tigers, alone, have had 3 pitchers win it. the first recipient of the AL mvp was a pitcher.

i just want to know how tahoe can go from that^ to "pitchers dont win mvps".

the funniest part is that the criteria is almost universally considered to be completely ambiguous. 'almost universally', save tahoe, who thinks that the rules are black and white.

i cant guarantee verlander wins the mvp. however, i can guarantee plenty of 'eat shit tahoe's in the mvp thread if he does.

Where'd I say shit for brains?

I hope he does win, but BDid, you are losing it bro. You can't even serperate what someone wants to happen to the 'CRITERIA' for it to happen.

Did you graduate from High School?

b-diddy droppin some enlightenment on the old man today.

:cogent:

^ Troll

I hope he does win, but BDid, you are losing it bro. You can't even serperate what someone wants to happen to the 'CRITERIA' for it to happen.

Did you graduate from High School?
The spirit of the criteria actually makes pitchers like Verlander more valuable, since they are involved in more plays.

Are 'PLAYS' in the 'CRITERIA'?

damnit vinny, i wanted tahoe to answer it.

i know pitchers have won. the tigers, alone, have had 3 pitchers win it. the first recipient of the AL mvp was a pitcher.

i just want to know how tahoe can go from that^ to "pitchers dont win mvps".

the funniest part is that the criteria is almost universally considered to be completely ambiguous. 'almost universally', save tahoe, who thinks that the rules are black and white.

i cant guarantee verlander wins the mvp. however, i can guarantee plenty of 'eat shit tahoe's in the mvp thread if he does.

I just read this again and I seriously LMAO. You are bringin sooooooooooooooooooooo much stupid.

Pitchers aren't MVP's.

^ criteria pretty much eliminates them.

I'm now officially calling you 'homer' not as in Homer simpson, but you are such a homer that your reading comprehension drops to zero if a Detroit player is in the running for an award or something.

You were prolly some of the peeps who bitched about the Lions not getting MNF games when we were losing every fuckin year.

Tahoe is a wet biscuit retard.

you are beyond absurd.

the criteria for most valuable player is the player who is most valuable. says nothing about needing to produce offense.



“The rules of the voting remain the same as they were written on the first ballot in 1931: (1) actual value of a player to his team, that is, strength of offense and defense; (2) number of games played; (3) general character, disposition, loyalty and effort; (4) former winners are eligible; and (5) members of the committee may vote for more than one member of a team.”

lololololololololololololololol

So wrong but not man enuf to admit it. Homer.

this is almost like acting the Constitution is still the end-all be-all document 200 years later.

^ Constitution is only important to libs when they can lie about it about a Republican Prez.

your post is littered with some sort of black feces. Too stupid to comprehend.

http://unrealitymag.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/jizz-in-my-pants-andy-samberg1.jpg

lololololololololololololololol

So wrong but not man enuf to admit it. Homer.

i dont know where you got this "criteria" from. i've never heard mvp defined in any other way than player who is most valuable.

it in no way bars pitchers from winning mvp. even if your list is legit, offensive production is part of the puzzle. so is defense, disposition, and loyalty.

its obviously a laundry list of things that consider (a list i presume is long forgotten). you making it all about one word is ridiculous. "loyalty", how'd arod win??? how could louis gonzalez win???? do you know the first thing about juan gonzalez's disposition? dude was an asshole.

the letter and spirit of the rule say pitchers are eligible.

the article i posted earlier pretty much summed it up. baseball TOLD voters to recluse them selves (read: dont vote) if they wouldnt consider voting a pitcher for mvp.

cy young = for pitchers. mvp = for everyone. its that simple. dont know how this conversation has lasted this long. you got NOTHING.

But....but...the criteria!

He's got anger, at least.

i dont know where you got this "criteria" from. i've never heard mvp defined in any other way than player who is most valuable.

it in no way bars pitchers from winning mvp. even if your list is legit, offensive production is part of the puzzle. so is defense, disposition, and loyalty.

its obviously a laundry list of things that consider (a list i presume is long forgotten). you making it all about one word is ridiculous. "loyalty", how'd arod win??? how could louis gonzalez win???? do you know the first thing about juan gonzalez's disposition? dude was an asshole.

the letter and spirit of the rule say pitchers are eligible.

the article i posted earlier pretty much summed it up. baseball TOLD voters to recluse them selves (read: dont vote) if they wouldnt consider voting a pitcher for mvp.

cy young = for pitchers. mvp = for everyone. its that simple. dont know how this conversation has lasted this long. you got NOTHING.

lol

so we basically agree that the rules allow pitchers to win the mvp, that pitchers have won it in the past, and that nothing has changed them to prevent them from winning it in the future.

correct any part of that statement that is incorrect.

because to go from that to "verlander wont win because pitchers arent mvps" seems to be where the entire forum is confused by your (im sure entirely logical) argument.

ill hang up and listen!

Bill Simmons
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6921420/passing-buck

NY Daily News


We've changed our minds - Justin Verlander should be AL MVP.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2011/09/05/2011-09-05_2011_week_22_mlb_power_rankings_mvp_candidate_j ustin_verlander_has_tigers_atop_a.html?page=0

so we basically agree that the rules allow pitchers to win the mvp, that pitchers have won it in the past, and that nothing has changed them to prevent them from winning it in the future.

correct any part of that statement that is incorrect.

because to go from that to "verlander wont win because pitchers arent mvps" seems to be where the entire forum is confused by your (im sure entirely logical) argument.

ill hang up and listen!

you done been el lowelled son. follow the criteria for that.

NY Daily News



http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2011/09/05/2011-09-05_2011_week_22_mlb_power_rankings_mvp_candidate_j ustin_verlander_has_tigers_atop_a.html?page=0

Troooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooollllll

Also, good for them. He is the mvp of team.

granderson, second in dingers, tied for first in runs (every yankee is close, too). batting 266.

thats your mvp??

want to give it to someone off the chokesox?

bautista, of the 74 and 74 canadian team?

gaylander is your mvp, by a country mile. this is obvious.

gaylander has 1, maybe 2 starts left. even if he meltded down in both, i think he'll win mvp. im thinking he'll finish with 24 wins, the pitching triple crown, and also finish first in every noteworthy starting pitcher category.

not only would i consider it a sham for anyone else to win it at this point, i think their would be outrage in the baseball snob community. tahoe can apologize any time he wants. now, or after the fact.

But the criteria...

23 wins and a no-hitter. Hasn't happened since Koufax, I'm told.

gaylander has 1, maybe 2 starts left. even if he meltded down in both, i think he'll win mvp. im thinking he'll finish with 24 wins, the pitching triple crown, and also finish first in every noteworthy starting pitcher category.

not only would i consider it a sham for anyone else to win it at this point, i think their would be outrage in the baseball snob community. tahoe can apologize any time he wants. now, or after the fact.

LMAO! What a tool!

Apologize for what? Schooling you on the 'rules for voting' You didn't what the rules were...what the criteria is.

You go babbling away without knowing what the fuck you're talking about.

Pitchers aren't MVP's (most years) cuz of the 'rules for voting' the 'criteria for voting'. Its a fact that misses you for some reason.

You really are making yourself out to be a dumbass on this one.

Do you libs really need any more evidence that our public schools are failing our youth, than BDid inability to comprehend?

i guess ill take the appology later.

Heard Olney say today that JV "absolutely deserves to win the MVP, he's clearly the most valuable player in the AL", but that he probably won't because the voting will be close, and too many idiot writers will leave him totally off their ballots and the other contenders will be on every ballot.

i guess ill take the appology later.

I don't apologize to peeps with IQs that must be in the single digits.

I just cracked myself up on that one.

But I suppose the hope might be that since there are roughly 5-6 viable MVP candidates this year, that they all split votes and that helps JV.

It actually might be a good year for a pitcher to win it despite the idiot voters because there is no clear offensive frontrunner.

Idiot voters should follow the rules for the MVP.

Like I said, if they didn't write the 'rules for voting' the way they did, pitchers would dominate the award.

your devolving tahoe. i dread where this is going.

^ you can't devolve when you start at zero.

no, i'd say your in the negatives right now. i believe in your ability to recover from this, though.

Look Zero, Homer, Bdid, et al, if I'm so bad, don't fuckin use my fuckin username in your fuckin stupid fuckin posts. Its that simple, Zero.

LMAO.

devolving.

Tahoe: Wilting at the Wrong Time

^ you're obsessed with me, aren't you?

Dude, you are creeping me out a lil bit.

Tahoe: Wilting at the Wrong Time


What's up tower boy?

Currently viewing:
The Anger.

^ Troooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooollllll

Maybe we should start a collection and send you a lovely fruit basket, a real pick-me-up.

He will only enjoy it if it's a bunch of bananas that resemble cocks.

He will only enjoy it if it's a bunch of bananas that resemble cocks.

What up Tower Boy?

Maybe we should start a collection and send you a lovely fruit basket, a real pick-me-up.


Trooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooolllllll

What kind of fucking asshole makes continuous jokes about 9/11?

A fugazi patriot, that's who.

Fucking scumbag.

What kind of a fucking asshole makes continuous jokes about somones religion?

A Fagazi Patriot, thats who.

Fuckin Scumbag

Deflect.

^ No U.

^^ and hypocritical.

D had to step into the bullshit from Zero. Zero had to bring me up, but again, pissy ass Glan sez I cross the line.

Fuckin hypocrisy is amazing.

And again you draw a bogus comparison to deflect from your shame.

Making light of people being duped by a fairytale is equal to making fun of thousands of innocent Americans being murdered.

In Tahoe's world.

And again you draw a bogus comparison to deflect from your shame.

Making light of people being duped by a fairytale is equal to making fun of thousands of innocent Americans being murdered.

In Tahoe's world.

You are such an idiot. LOL @ you.

Once again though, other bitches start shit and then can't handle it.

Dish it out, but can't take it mother fuckas.

Have an angry night, man.

LMAO!

i hope its just a big joke that no one gets.

Not sure how a Cy Young/MVP thread turns into a flameathon but this cats a guaranteed W every start.... i'm starting to buy the MVP.
Better staff and offense than the Yanks right now?

Tahoe.. I just... tower boy? wtf. bush-league for a bush-whacker is only natural, I guess.

Once again, never did I say Bush brought the towers down. I can't see how anyone is continuously bashing you for your religious beliefs, either, only your religion.

[paying some attention to MLB since the NBA is LOL]

I don't think that pitchers or DHes ought to be eligible for the MVP award. I think it should be restricted to everyday players who field and take at-bats. To that extent, I think I agree with Tahoe (though it's hard to tell given some of the sub-coherent ravings here). I realize that's not how the award actually works, but that's how I think it should work.

I was happy enough for him, but I thought it was a crock when Willie Hernandez won MVP in '84 because I didn't think he was necessarily the consensus MVP of our team that year, let alone the league. I'd have taken Gibby over Willie that year.

u serious, brother? I'd like to hear some reasoning besides "I think it should be this way."

Pitchers differ too greatly from the majority of positions whose principle roles are batting and fielding.
Pitchers get their own prominent award.
DHs simply don't do enough.

I'm not terribly bent out of shape about it. It's just my feeling about how the MVP award should work, nothing more or less.

Bolded items lead league:

Clemens was the last pitcher to win MVP:
24-4, 2.48 ERA, .969 WHIP, 238 Ks, 1 SHO


Verlander's Numbers (*has starts against Oakland and Baltimore left, probably gets him to 25 wins):
23-5*, 2.36 ERA, .915 WHIP, 238 Ks, 2 SHO, 1 No Hitter

Clemens also had two teammates that finished in the top 7 voting (and 2 more that got votes), so he certainly had more help than Verlander. Cabrera and VMart will probably get some votes this year, but not to that level of help he had. Verlander, Bautista, Granderson, Pedroia, Gonzalez, Ellsbury and Cano will all be in the top 10 and I suspect that at least 5 of those will be above Cabrera for sure.

theres a difference between what is and what should be. what is is the mvp clearly (and to most) obviously, includes pitchers. what should be is a matter of opinion.

pitchers dont get paid less. in fact, 4 of the top 10 players this year are pitchers. actually is disproportionately pitcher heavy, since only starters would get that big of money. ill take it a step further, if injuries werent such a giant concern for pitchers, pitchers would have almost all the big contracts in baseball. theyre valuable. more valuable than any other position, by a landslide. if youre going to argue that they dont belong in the "mvp" talk, you should argue against them being players than being not valuable enough.

pitchers only throw 1 out of 5 games, but they have more than 5x as much affect on that one game than any other player-- or atleast can (see verlander).

and the whole, only every day fielding players should be mvp is just as wrong. some of the best hitters today and in history have been awful fielders. for example, see nl favorite prince fielder, who is about as bad as it gets at first. i dont think playing terrible defense is better than dhing.

For the "the award should go to the player that is most valuable to his team" crowd...

Let's say JV wins 25 games. Have any of the other candidates been as responsible for creating wins for his team, even though they are playing every day? I think not.

Did Jose Bautista win 25 games for the Blue Jays?

Did Granderson win 25 games for the Yanks?

So for me, the most valuable player on every team is a pitcher. He's most valuable to his team most years.

I think pitchers would take this award almost every year and they have the cy. I just think they wrote the rules for voting to keep pitchers out of the mix on most years.

So do y'all want pitchers to have the Cy and the MVP almost every year? I think the point was to have a non-pitcher award...and yes I was around in 1931 when the rules were written up.

So for me, the most valuable player on every team is a pitcher. He's most valuable to his team most years.

I think pitchers would take this award almost every year and they have the cy. I just think they wrote the rules for voting to keep pitchers out of the mix on most years.

So do y'all want pitchers to have the Cy and the MVP almost every year? I think the point was to have a non-pitcher award...and yes I was around in 1931 when the rules were written up.

its like you werent reading any of our posts. i think there are several posts in this thread that say almost exactly that.

yes, interpreting the *CRITERIA!!!* to favor players is one thing, but to somehow think it excludes pitchers is another. the last pitcher to win the mvp was 25 years ago. since then, their have been some pitching candidates, but there were also fielding players who had awesome years too. this year, there is definitely a pitcher who is a candidate, but the field is weak.

him winning is a very likely scenario. he definitely should get it. his biggest impediment is dumbass voters who think they know everything. sound familiar?

argument: every american league team would probably love to sign prince fielder. most, if not all, would probably prefer to DH him than play him at first. im willing to bet that signing him as a DH vs signing him as a 1st baseman will not save that team a single penny: read it will not hurt his value. ergo, there is no requirement to do everything to be valuable, or most valuable.

its like you werent reading any of our posts. i think there are several posts in this thread that say almost exactly that.

yes, interpreting the *CRITERIA!!!* to favor players is one thing, but to somehow think it excludes pitchers is another. the last pitcher to win the mvp was 25 years ago. since then, their have been some pitching candidates, but there were also fielding players who had awesome years too. this year, there is definitely a pitcher who is a candidate, but the field is weak.

him winning is a very likely scenario. he definitely should get it. his biggest impediment is dumbass voters who think they know everything. sound familiar?

I wish you could comprehend ENGLISH!

So the very first criteria is 'strength of offense and defense'.

JV has ZERO offensive stats.

The 2nd criteria is 'number of games played' OUCH!

So JV plays every 4th of 5th day.

So the first and second criteria that they want you to look at JV fails. Not his fault. Not any pitchers fault. Its just how they wrote it up.

That said, he might win it. But he shouldn't based on the criteria.

They could easily drop 'offense' from the first part. And state that 'games played for pitchers is if they start every 4th or 5th day' and all would equal.

I think Pitcher would start to dominate the MVP award then. Maybe they are trying to keep an award for non-pitcher and have the Cy for pitchers.

I don't know, but rules are rules. or criteria is criteria.

Verlander would be first pick.

He's the most valuable player to this team...the way most peeps think of MVP's. But that stupid fucked 'criteria' that they go by, sort of eliminates pitchers from the running.

My quoting of BDid in post 67 sez it all. He didn't know what the fuck he was talking about. He said 'it says nothing' and the 'rules for voting' contradicts everything Zero said.

You need to learn when to stop digging. You need to stop digging. If Glan comes up with some 'BDid dropping some knowledge on the old man' I wish you understood that he is just trolling. You didn't drop any knowledge, you got schooled by me. Glan just can't admit it cuz I'm a conservative.

your inability to hold two contradictory thoughts in your head is disapointing. devolving.

You are seriously an unbelievable individual.

what exactly are you arguing?

and not that im an idiot. what is your argument in this thread.

go!

^ See post 139.

i bet you dont even know.

^ You are seriously a tard.

waiting.

^ Don't hold your breath.

“The rules of the voting remain the same as they were written on the first ballot in 1931: (1) actual value of a player to his team, that is, strength of offense and defense; (2) number of games played; (3) general character, disposition, loyalty and effort; (4) former winners are eligible; and (5) members of the committee may vote for more than one member of a team.”


So the very first criteria is 'strength of offense and defense'.

JV has ZERO offensive stats.

The 2nd criteria is 'number of games played' OUCH!

So JV plays every 4th of 5th day.

So the first and second criteria that they want you to look at JV fails. Not his fault. Not any pitchers fault. Its just how they wrote it up.

That said, he might win it. But he shouldn't based on the criteria.

Easy to see how you come to that conclusion, reading the rules as you quoted them I'd agree. It's obvious. Pitchers don't/shouldn't qualify.

Howeva, there's more. This is the full text of voting instructions (http://bbwaa.com/voting-faq/) from the BBWAA.com website.


Dear Voter:

There is no clear-cut definition of what Most Valuable means. It is up to the individual voter to decide who was the Most Valuable Player in each league to his team. The MVP need not come from a division winner or other playoff qualifier.

The rules of the voting remain the same as they were written on the first ballot in 1931:

1. Actual value of a player to his team, that is, strength of offense and defense.

2. Number of games played.

3. General character, disposition, loyalty and effort.

4. Former winners are eligible.

5. Members of the committee may vote for more than one member of a team.

You are also urged to give serious consideration to all your selections, from 1 to 10. A 10th-place vote can influence the outcome of an election. You must fill in all 10 places on your ballot. Only regular-season performances are to be taken into consideration.

Keep in mind that all players are eligible for MVP, including pitchers and designated hitters.

Oh wait. Now it's obvious that the conclusion based on a narrow reading is wrong and clearly contradicted when you read the whole thing. The criteria aren't iron-clad and pitchers not only qualify they are specifically called out as eligible for consideration just so there's no confusion.

So hate on it all you want for including pitchers but the instructions that go to voters are pretty clear.

You fuckin faggots come out of the woodwork to fuckin gang up and you still get owned. Do you guys dry crack each other too?

I don't hate the voting. It is what it is.

I never said pitchers should be excluded.

You fuggin liberal fags are seriously becoming too stupid to talk to.

Easy to see how you come to that conclusion, reading the rules as you quoted them I'd agree. It's obvious. Pitchers don't/shouldn't qualify.

Howeva, there's more. This is the full text of voting instructions (http://bbwaa.com/voting-faq/) from the BBWAA.com website.



Oh wait. Now it's obvious that the conclusion based on a narrow reading is wrong and clearly contradicted when you read the whole thing. The criteria aren't iron-clad and pitchers not only qualify they are specifically called out as eligible for consideration just so there's no confusion.

So hate on it all you want for including pitchers but the instructions that go to voters are pretty clear.

Instead of talking to me, fag face, talk to Bdid who is still too stupid to even know there are rules for voting. Jesus Christ y'all are something. Just fuckin argue with Tahoe. That's all you can do because I don't want to spend the country over the clliff. LMAO!

You should go back and argue with Glan, BDid, but no, its Ta. LMAO!

If you want to correct someone for your ego, than hit up BDid or Zero as he is now called. He's so fucked up he can't even read for chrissakes.

So who's up next? Its about time for Detroit Export again.

Bring it, DTE, you'll get owned like you do every other post you make trying to argue with me.

Your turn D!

Try to prove the conservative on the board wrong.

LMAO

Glan, your turn. Troooooooooooooooooooooooooooollll

Troll a lil and get owned too.

The key to me that ABSOLUTELY ERADICATES the "he doesn't play every day" argument is that a pitcher on Verlander's level is DIRECTLY INVOLVED in WAY MORE plays than any position player. And it's not like "hey, all pitchers do that", it takes a special pitcher who pitches that many at bats and POSITIVELY affects that many situations to make it clear. In conclusion, the CRITERIA clearly make Verlander the only legitimate choice.

YEAH GUYS, WAY MORE MANY

I feel the role of a pitcher is distinctive enough in terms of what they do and don't do that they ought to fall in a separate category with a separate award.

Typical full-time DHs are banged-up older guys going for career records and paychecks. They're not MVPs in that role.

Again, just my opinion, and I'm not nearly the baseball person that most of you are. My baseball jones mostly died with collusion in the 80s.

Someone forgot to tell Tahoe there's no crying in baseball.

^ you, not-friend, are a fag.

So first you fags all jump in and then, all of the sudden all you fags stop.

Heres your unity symbol. Fuckin fags.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRQXbxi-XyUwCNnwWpZMUvjo7OsCeymZbNi6GIwNvOR4mUk5alYOdHPwvf r

Tahoe does some of his best work in these situations.

C'mon Glanzie, everyone is waiting for your lead. Which way are you going to go, troll?

The rest will follow.

I think that the main concern now for JV is that he splits too many MVP votes with Fister.

JV gets regular season MVP, Fister World Series MVP. I think that's fair.

It is just saying that both offense and defense should be considered, not that both need to be good. If a player is exceptional in either regard it can outweigh the other one.

Tahoe - are you saying Clemens should not have been MVP?

tahoe is saying that he is right and everyone else is wrong. about what? no man can say.

The key to me that ABSOLUTELY ERADICATES the "he doesn't play every day" argument is that a pitcher on Verlander's level is DIRECTLY INVOLVED in WAY MORE plays than any position player. And it's not like "hey, all pitchers do that", it takes a special pitcher who pitches that many at bats and POSITIVELY affects that many situations to make it clear. In conclusion, the CRITERIA clearly make Verlander the only legitimate choice.

While I think Mxy's argument is very valid; this is the one that wins out for me. Value can be relative but overall value can be determined.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/si_online/covers/images/2011/0917_large.jpg

eatshit@tahoe

IMHO, local folks will be disappointed with the biased big town votes.
Cy Young would be a gr8 achievement.
N.E. way you look at it JV dominated... no problem with the stupid ass results.

http://o.onionstatic.com/images/articles/article/26/26097/SSWS_Justin_Verlander_R_2_jpg_630x1200_upscale_q85 .jpg

there is nothing worse than sabermetrics nerd. i really hate these people.

if we go to war with another country, i hope that country is filled with sabermetric nerds. i'd gladly enlist.

Sunday's start didn't make it any easier to argue against him.

Verlander's season warrants MVP Award - SweetSpot Blog - ESPN http://es.pn/nYxdz6

Sunday's start didn't make it any easier to argue against him.


pitchers arent mvps

that was easy.

Stupid argument. That's like saying a goalie can't be an MVP because they have the Vezina. Doesn't happen often, but sometimes they are just that good.

tuesday weaver pitches his last game against the rangers. he's a hair behind gaylander in era. its really insignifciant, but still ill be paying close attention. want verlander to get the pitching tripple crown.

pretty much, any variation of of an era of under 2.40 will probably drop him down below verlander. verlander is sitting at 2.4023, weaver is at 2.4059. for example, if he goes 8.1 innings and gives up 2, his era drops to 2.4008. however, if he gives up 2 in 7, his era is 2.4074. if he goes 7.2 and gives up 2, his era is 2.4041.

also, big mig has the batting crown right now. pretty surprising, to me anyway. he's been tearing it up pretty good, lately.

JV's season is where it needs to be for voters to give him the award.

When Zero started talking about it, it wasn't even close.

At least Zero got schooled by me so he now knows there are rules for voting...criteria.

Zero is such a dumbass so it's really not a feather in my cap to say I schooled him.

the criteria that no one is aware of or cares about.

the criteria where Negative inserts "needs" and "musts" at his discretion.

if it helps you to think that somehow you've been right all along, enjoy.

but also eat shit. oh so much shit.

the criteria that no one is aware of or cares about.

the criteria where Negative inserts "needs" and "musts" at his discretion.

if it helps you to think that somehow you've been right all along, enjoy.

but also eat shit. oh so much shit.

Wow, you are stupid.

and youre a modern day aristotle. you really are.