AHHHH FUCK YOU RIP


WojYahooNBA:
DET and CLE negotiated down to wire on a Rip Hamilton trade, but fell apart when Rip wouldn't accept buyout terms with Cavs, sources say. [via Twitter]

3:24 SpearsNBAYahoo:
RT @WojYahooNBA: DET and CLE negotiated down to wire on a Rip Hamilton trade, but fell apart when Rip wouldn't accept buyout terms with ... [via Twitter]

3:25 WojYahooNBA:
DET and CLE agreed on protected future draft pick to go with Hamilton, but Rip wouldn't give back enough of $25M owed him, sources say. [via Twitter]

Hard to blame Rip for not wanting to give up lots of money.

He already has a ring.

I'm having difficulty with "Rip didn't want the minutes" in Cleveland.

Does that mean he didn't want reduced minutes, or he didn't want too many minutes ,or simply that he didn't want to play for them?

And if Cleveland "would have been happy to let him play" why didn't the Pistons and Cavs just make that deal? Rip can't veto it, or anything.

This is what I'm referring to:


Adrian Wojnarowski: Cleveland would've been glad to let Rip play there, but he didn't want the minutes. Wouldn't take buyout offer. Back to bench in Detroit. Twitter

I'm shocked, shocked Rip wouldn't give back money for the privilege of playing extra minutes on an even shittier team.

No surprise who's got the scoop.


Hamilton at center of Pistons’ turmoil
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/expertsarchive?author=Adrian+Wojnarowski


About a week prior to his banishment to the Detroit Pistons’ bench in January, Richard Hamilton(notes) berated coach John Kuester in a jarring and expletive-filled diatribe on the practice court, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

As stunned coaches and teammates watched, Hamilton bellowed at Kuester that he had been a failure in his two seasons in Detroit, blown the opportunity the franchise afforded him and was nothing more than a career assistant coach, sources said. Despite Hamilton yelling within inches of him, Kuester didn’t respond.

Several of the team’s younger players were mortified watching it and privately told agents and associates they wished they had the courage to stand up, confront Hamilton and try to take control back from the disgruntled veteran.


With $25 million left on a contract that runs through the 2013 season, Hamilton had been nearly impossible to trade for Detroit. Still, Pistons general manager Joe Dumars and Cleveland Cavaliers general manager Chris Grant had an agreement to send Hamilton and a lottery-protected 2012 first-round draft pick for a $12.6 million trade exception and a second-round draft pick on Thursday, sources said.

Cleveland was mostly interested in the draft pick, but was willing to let Hamilton join the team for the remainder of his contract. Once Hamilton made clear he didn’t want to play for a last-place team, his representatives discussed a contract buyout that would’ve allowed him to likely join the Chicago Bulls, sources said. Cleveland wanted him to take $18 million in the buyout, arguing that he could secure his 2011-12 salary now when it’s possible that money wouldn’t be paid him during a lockout next season.

Hamilton declined, and the trade died within an hour of the Thursday afternoon deadline.

he has only 21.5* mil guaranteed, all this BS because of 3.5 mil? really?

he got 2 chances to leave, either get all his money or play for a contender, what an asshole

* http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/pistons.jsp

The players in this league have way too much control. Imagine berating your boss and then being told to stay home and we'll pay you for the next couple of years. In terms of building, it is very difficult to build a contender in the NBA through the draft unless you live in certain select cities. Players all want to go to NY, Miami, LA and the Detroit, Cleveland, Denver, Utah, Toronto, Milwaukee, Minnesota, etc.. have a very difficult road ahead. I'm generally pro-player with CBA but the NBA has turned into the worst league.

The NBA needs to go with a hard cap and UFA at an older age with a franchise tag. No more of this Lebron shit and fucking over Cleveland or all the Carmelo rumors. The owners should fuck them and shut the league down for a year if they don't agree. Make these bums feel the pain of no more paychecks.

Not to mention, that there is likely to be a lockout. Hamilton could have recieved next years money and than some in a lump sum payment right now. Instead, he's still stuck here and will make less than the reported 18 million buyout amount if there is any type of a lockout that takes away all or part of the season. I'm gonna laugh when the season is lost and he loses that 12.5 million dollars with no chance to ever recoup it. Idiot.

I'm shocked, shocked Rip wouldn't give back money for the privilege of playing extra minutes on an even shittier team.

Ummm, he had the choice of playing on a bad team or giving back some money to play on the team of his choosing after a buyout. Where do you see that he would give back money in order to play on a shittier team?

I find it hard to believe that this is the whole story. Regardless of Rip, it seems highly unlikely that the Cavs would be willing to pay $16M for a lottery protected future pick. Something is getting reported wrong here. Heck, they just essentially bought the Clippers pick for what, $6-$7M?

Rip needs to be banned from the team. no locker room, no bus and no bench.

Even if he wasn't a bad influence on the team it's clear he's not playing here. It makes absolutely no sense to have your staff and your facilities wasted on someone who is really just competition. If rip can use the treadmills, scout players in practice and have Arnie watch his physical condition then players on the bulls, celtics and magic might as well do the same thing. there's basically no difference.

They took on Baron, Vinny. I assume that you've seen his contract.

He's being bitter, and further more deciding that he should be torn off handsomely in exchange for moving on. I knew Rip had mild ego issues. I can't say expected him to be this damn delusional. Even if he wins his petty dispute, he's killing his money for the future and outright saying he doesnt believe he's that good enough anymore to warrant a solid contract.

I agree, Kool, and I've sort of been in Rip's corner through most of this. Get Rip, Tay and maybe even Tmac and Ben away from the young guys.

They took on Baron, Vinny. I assume that you've seen his contract.
Yeah, and that cost them $9M from what I read, over Mo Williams, and for a better (more certain at least) pick. And Baron is going to play for them, which can't be completely discounted.

$16-$18M for a future lottery protected pick from us? I have my doubts. I'm sure something along those lines was proposed, but there's something missing from this story...and we'll probably never know.

I think he didn't expect Joe D to rat him out on his refusing to go back in when he built up such sympathy for his plight. And I'm sure Kuester saw it as a chance to run him harder. Problem is neither Kuester or Rip is an easy cut and they know it. How do they play war of wills at that original moment of issue? Hate it from Rip because he is a vet who made his career here, and for Kuester because head coaching is exactly about making dysfunctional situations work. Triangle offense be damned Phil Jackson was brought back because he's one of the few Head Coaches who can operate in spite of Kobe's tantrums. Even has Artest and Kobe on his team and doesn't break a sweat.

I mean, Phoenix used to sell their picks for what, $2m? Granted lower picks but still...no way they're going for 8 times that in this economy no matter how desperate Gilbert is....

1st round picks are being treated like liabilities this year, in some cases. Joe didn't want Caron Butler and a 1st for Tay because the 1st would require a guaranteed contract. Crazy.

1st round picks are being treated like liabilities this year, in some cases. Joe didn't want Caron Butler and a 1st for Tay because the 1st would require a guaranteed contract. Crazy.

And this draft is considered the worst draft since 2000, which yielded 3 all star appearances. Not 3 all stars, 3 all star appearances.

I bet Monroe would easily be the #1 pick in this draft.

I find it hard to believe that this is the whole story. Regardless of Rip, it seems highly unlikely that the Cavs would be willing to pay $16M for a lottery protected future pick. Something is getting reported wrong here. Heck, they just essentially bought the Clippers pick for what, $6-$7M?

The difference between Baron ($29m owed, guaranteed) and Williams (player options for $8.5m in each of the next two years, totalling $17m, at most) is $12m.

What I find hard to believe is that the Cavs would be willing to take on two of the worst contracts in the game, together (Baron and Rip). You almost have to think that the Rip deal fell apart once they got Baron. So yeah, there seems like there's more here.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=6161438
Rip you're killing yourself.

If the Detroit Pistons are beyond frustrated with Richard Hamilton after his part in Friday's reported player boycott of practice, it's because he had a chance to no longer be coached by John Kuester -- the impetus for the boycott -- and didn't take it.

The Pistons had a deal arranged with the Cavaliers, league sources say, that would have sent Hamilton to Cleveland. The Pistons would have added a first-round pick to compensate the Cavaliers for taking Hamilton off their hands, and the Cavs could have absorbed Hamilton's contract with a $12 million trade exception.

The difference between Baron ($29m owed, guaranteed) and Williams (player options for $8.5m in each of the next two years, totalling $17m, at most) is $12m.

What I find hard to believe is that the Cavs would be willing to take on two of the worst contracts in the game, together (Baron and Rip). You almost have to think that the Rip deal fell apart once they got Baron. So yeah, there seems like there's more here.

I have heard differing reports on the specifics of what will be saved (Some include Moon's salary next year, some claim baron's final year isn't completely guaranteed) but regardless, even if it is $12M, to pay $6M more for a lottery protected pick seems doubtful. Even though this year's draft may be thin, there is no guarantee for next year's either, and a certain current asset will always tend to be more valuable than an uncertain future one.

Read somewhere this morning that Rip's agent is going to be meeting with Pistons again to talk buyout before 3/1. Can't remember where I saw it now, though.

Unless he's willing to give a substantial chunk back, fuck that. Make him sit at home.

I read that yesterday and it said, don't hold your breat or something to that effect. But we'll see.

Rip doesn't seem like the kind of guy to take a buyout if he loses 1 dollar of his contract. I remember him bitching about getting a tech in a game. Not that he got the tech, but "you just cost me 2 thousand dollars" He was pissed about that.

Hopefully it can be explained how he can be bought out and go sign another deal.

Yeah, it will be hard seeing him gravy train on a contender now. He'd be perfect for the Bulls, though.

Read somewhere this morning that Rip's agent is going to be meeting with Pistons again to talk buyout before 3/1. Can't remember where I saw it now, though.

I give 1% credence to this post.

He actually might be willing to take less now just to get out, you know he just wants to go somewhere and prove "everyone" wrong.

He'd be pretty attractive to a contender for that and other reasons (like the fact that he can still play).

^ :nh:

Yeah, it will be hard seeing him gravy train on a contender now. He'd be perfect for the Bulls, though.
Put him on the Bulls in October and they could make the Finals. My stupid Chicago friends are so short-sighted...."We don't want your Detroit players!"....You don't want to go to the Finals? "Go fuck yourself!"

I give 1% credence to this post.
Just because you're a mod doesn't mean we'll believe your BS Glan.

Put him on the Bulls in October and they could make the Finals. My stupid Chicago friends are so short-sighted...."We don't want your Detroit players!"....You don't want to go to the Finals? "Go fuck yourself!"

Same ones that have been Blackhawk fans since June?

He'll need to agree to a buyout today if he wants to be playoff eligible elsewhere.

How does it work if you buy out a player that has additional years left on his deal?

I know that his salary would still count against our cap figure, but do we simply lose the ability to trade his expiring next year? (not that Joe would, LOL)

Am I missing something? I keep hearing it said that he'd be an expiring next year but doesn't he have 2 more years left?

As far as I know, the salary or at least the proportionate amount of the buyout stays on the books each year until the contract was set to expire.

But that's not something that can be traded for an asset (again LOL), right?

So the Pistons lose flexibilty in that case, correct?

Yes, the only thing a buyout does for the team is reduce the amount that hangs on the books for the length of the contract. It does not reduce the length of time the contract remains on the team salary.

Rip is on someone's salary cap till the 12/13 season no matter if he is bought out or not. That's why the deal was to trade him and then have the Cavs buy him out. If we buy him out, he's on our cap till 12/13 no matter the price he is bought out for.

They may have been more interested in the pick for RIP if it were a future one based on this year being a bad draft class. I assume the LA pick is this year (haven't seen anything besides "a first round pick" anywhere)?

I don't understand why RIP wouldn't do this (if the Cavs reportedly would, there is no point debating that end of things). Losing 6-7 mil means nothing when he'd get the security or a max MLE deal for years. If he sits here another two years and doesn't play (worst case scenario) then what is his value going to be? He's 33 right now. When his contract is up he'll be 35.5 (going into the 2013 season). He keeps in good shape, but his game is based on speed. He's not like Terry Mills standing at the 3 point line. Who's going to give that guy much money at that age and having sat for two years being a crybaby? The way it looks now, he'll be the next Spreewell. That guy refused to sign a 3 year $21 mil extension with Minny because he had his "family to feed" as we all know. After refusing that all he got was MLE offers which he said were beneath him. He ended up not even playing again because nobody would offer him more.

doesn't a player's contract come off the books if he's bought out AND signs with another team? I always thought that was the way it worked.

I suppose I'd rather see us hold onto him until a) we get a new coach to see if he can get back into the rotation or b) until his contract reaches its last year so he can be an asset in a trade as an expiring deal (assuming the new owner believes in flipping expirings for new assets).

doesn't a player's contract come off the books if he's bought out AND signs with another team? I always thought that was the way it worked.
99% sure that's a no. It's almost impossible to get a contract off the books unless you trade it.

That's why that amnesty arrangement was such a big deal a few years ago.

99% sure that's a no. It's almost impossible to get a contract off the books unless you trade it.

First he has to make it through waivers. If a team wants his existing contract they can pick it up (in that case I assume it transfers to that team including all cap hits).

If the player makes it through waivers and signs with another team his cap hit remains on the previous team's books.

If a buyout is reached that amount is used for the cap hit instead of his normal salary:


The agreed-upon buy-out amount (see question number 62 (http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q62)) is included in the team salary instead of the salary called for in the contract. If the player had more than one season left on his contract, then the buy-out money is distributed among those seasons in proportion to the original salary. For example, say a player had three seasons remaining on his contract, with salaries of $10 million, $11 million and $12 million. The player and team agree to a buyout of $15 million. The $15 million is therefore charged to the team salary over the three seasons. Since the original contract had $33 million left to be paid, and $10 million is 30.3% of $33 million, 30.3% of the $15 million buyout, or $4.545 million, is included in the team salary in the first season following the buyout. Likewise, 33.33% of $15 million, or $5 million, is included in the team salary in the second season, and 36.36% of $15 million, or $5.455 million, is included in the team salary in the third season.
The distribution of the buy-out money is a matter of individual negotiation. Changing the number of years in which the money is paid does not change the number of years in which the team's team salary is charged. In the above example in which the player's contract is bought out with three seasons remaining, the buyout amount is always charged to the team salary over three seasons. It does not matter if the player is actually paid in a lump sum or over 20 years (a spread provision).
The RIP scenario would be a trade from the Pistons to the Cavs and then the Cavs buying him out. So in that case the cap hold would be on the Cavs books for whatever the amount of the buyout was (buyout meaning salary he is paid, not what is given up) divided over the last two years of his contract.

If the Pistons bought him out we'd get that cap hold.

Pistons' Richard Hamilton, John Kuester say they've made up http://goo.gl/fb/nekaU

Aww, isn't that sweet?

so now Rip just thinks of him as a "douche".

This will be a short-lived makeup.

There is no point buying Rip out anyway...

Sure we would lesson his cap hold over the life of his contract but you can't trade the buyout figure like it's an expiring.

The only hope we have is to play him and pray he performs at a high level so we can get something for him in a trade.

There will be plenty of time to make trades prior to the lock out

The point of buying him out is that the buyout amount is used as the cap hold, not his current salary. It is only useful if the buyout amount is significantly less than what he would have made, which I doubt he's willing to do.

This is from yesterday (obviously)


@Chris_Broussard: Sources say Pistons will not buy out Rip Hamilton or Tay Prince. Rip deal/w/Cavs could be revisited around NBA Draft

Buying out Prince would be completely pointless unless there was a FA they were going to sign.

Buying out Prince would be completely pointless unless there was a FA they were going to sign.

Or unless a) they just wanted him to go away or b) he was willing to give up some money to try and latch on with a contender.

I'm not sure how many teams will have cap room this summer (CBA dispute makes that fuzzy) but I suppose they could be hoping that he can be S&Td for some sort of asset.

I really doubt he re-signs to stay here.

Dumars has claimed he is a prime S&T candidate. It's ridiculous but that's what he claims.

Or unless a) they just wanted him to go away or b) he was willing to give up some money to try and latch on with a contender.

I'm not sure how many teams will have cap room this summer (CBA dispute makes that fuzzy) but I suppose they could be hoping that he can be S&Td for some sort of asset.

I really doubt he re-signs to stay here.

Giving up money only helps the owner. It does nothing to make the team better because his deal is up anyway. He should have accepted the Dallas deal unless he really thinks he'll get more in a S&T. It would have to be a capped out team that wants to offer more than the MLE.

The point of buying him out is that the buyout amount is used as the cap hold, not his current salary. It is only useful if the buyout amount is significantly less than what he would have made, which I doubt he's willing to do.

I agree he won't give up a lot of cash - which is why I think it's pointless to buy him out.

Play him as much as you can for the rest of the season - hope he performs at a high level and hope you can trade him (and maybe our first rounder) for something we actually want and need.

Rip's massive expiring deal has to be worth more than a dollar figure we can't move - regardless of hw low that figure is. It's not like we'd have cap room if everyone that could walk away actually did AND Rip gave up $5 million...

so why buy him out in the first place?

Buying Tay out is even more pointless unless you want to actually give Daye and Summers those minutes... which is possible.

But if we planned to buy out Tay then why wasn't he traded for Butler and Dallas' pick? Butler is injured so you could have give Daye and Summers the minutes at SF, swapped an expiring for expiring (and potential S&T for potential S&T) PLUS picked up a late first!

Surely Dallas had no issue with that trade?

It was reported that Joe didn't want Dallas' 1st because IT COMES WITH A GUARANTEED CONTRACT.

Fucking WHAT?

Aren't rookie deals only guaranteed for 2 years (first rounders only)?

And I'm guessing Dallas' pick won't be top 15...

For real?

JOE didn't want the contract - or was ordered not to make trades that brought back any guaranteed money?

Cause a Tay for Butler and pick deal = bringing back guaranteed money....

Fucking hell we're a joke!

I can't explain why we didn't make the trades. It's just stupid. Dallas really wanted Tay and we likely could have unloaded another contract (like Max - see in Fun with Trades section).

I also don't understand the Rip thing. Even if the Pistons had to throw in $5-6 mil, it was worth it not to have to pay him $12 next season. Even with the teams state, removing a liability of $6-7 plus just for next season would be a big plus. It's good business whomever owns the team.

I think $3m is the max cash you can include in a trade.

Who knows if you can believe him but Rip said in his interview basically what I said. "Don't believe everything you read, things weren't reported right, there was a deal but it wasn't what's being reported."

It was reported that Joe didn't want Dallas' 1st because IT COMES WITH A GUARANTEED CONTRACT.
That assumes it was a 1st round pick for next year, rather than one for a few years down the road.
<groan>

According to Bob Finnanfrom news-herald.com:Owner Dan Gilbert told the Fox Sports Ohio audience the other night the Cavs were close to getting a third lottery pick at the trade deadline. "It didn't happen," he said. "We'll work on it again. (There's) a lot of time between the end of the season and the draft."

Rip + our lottery pick for ??????

For nothing.
They had their LeBron TPE.

I know that, just thought that Joe would need to save some PR face and get SOMETHING back.





/yougonnacry?

If we passed on Tay for Butler and a first because of the contract that is stupid (whether that is from Dumars or the "owner"). No way you can win if you're not willing to take on a million bucks a year in salary. We're basically the Pittsburgh Pirates if we're going to do that crap.

It's not like he couldn't trade that pick anyway. Why not just trade it for a future first (there has to be a team that wants in to the back of the first)? Or package it to move up. There are plenty of things you can do with it. It is an asset.

My guess is that he honestly thinks he'll get more for Tay in a S&T scenario (that whatever player comes back is worth more than a pick at the end of the 1st).

I know that, just thought that Joe would need to save some PR face and get SOMETHING back.





/yougonnacry?

Can exceptions be packaged with players?

I don't think so. Picks can, and Joe loves to collect 2nd round picks, as we all know.

You can get around not being able to include players with a TPE by doing another, separate deal. It's been done.

For example, not saying Cavs would do this:

Deal #1: Rip + our first for Cavs TPE

Deal #2: Maxiell/Summers for Varejao


Summers is just in there as an example, his contract is up.

What Rip did while he was "injured"...

Detroit Pistons guard Richard Hamilton to guest star on episode of 'Imagination Movers' (http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2011/03/post_12.html)