Jaime Samuelson attempts to make the case for keeping him.


New at Freep.com Probably in the minority, but I think Joe Dumars deserves a shot to rebuild this #Pistons mess http://tinyurl.com/4t3q899

What say you?

I love it.

"No one should care about the past, only the future. You can't fire Dumars because of his success in the past."

I miss the "I agree with MoTown" option.

I voted no, but he has until the end of the season to change my mind. My issues with his drafting are well documented, I won't bother re-hashing that. The CV and BG signings were overspending where way may not have been competing with anyone, and if we did lose out on either there was a great FA crop the next year.

To change my vote to yes he has to fix a few things:
1) RIP must be moved for ANY expiring deal(s). I don't care if no assets come back long term.
2) Tay must be moved for a young long term piece and/or pick along with expiring filler
3) Coaching mess must be fixed
4) Stuckey situation must be resolved (moved or kept at decent rate). If kept need to find legit PG.

My theoretical solutions:
1) RIP/Wilcox to ORL for Jrich
2) Tay to DAL for Butler/Pick
3) don't know
4) Other positions effected by him.

Joe needs to go hard after Kaman and West with Stuckey as bait. Also go after Rubio. If none of these pan out go after Zach/West.

It's possible to make this a playoff team pretty quick. I'm not sure a Stuckey/BG/Zach/Monroe/draft pick core can compete for a title or anything, but at least be a middle of the road playoff team.

If Joe makes no bold moves I just don't see a path to winning unless you hit the lotto big time and don't screw up that pick.

I think that, based on his performance over the past 5+ years, that he deserves to be fired. Of course, it's hard to tell how much of his lack of creativity/activity was a function of having his hands tied by the ownership situation, but most of his major mistakes can't be attributed to lack of resources.

That said, I can't see him being fired. I think we're about to enter a new era of "throwback" marketing for the franchise. Can anyone really see Gores stepping in and chasing away the icon that Joe's become as his first, signature move? Not exactly a good way to embrace the fanbase.

Along the same vein, I wouldn't be surprised if Fool actually got his wish and Laimbeer gets a look as the coach. It would be purely a marketing move, just like bringing Isiah back into the fold would be.

All bets are off once Gores takes over, he's got to re-energize the fanbase and start building goodwill right off the bat.

so.. when does he take over?

I just haven't seen any progress towards winning another title in 7 years. He has made some good moves (Monroe, JJ) in that time, just not enough to make us contenders. Unless he does some significant moves I don't see a reason to continue with his path.

To follow up, just so I don't get accused of skirting the poll question, yes, he should be fired. But he won't be, IMO.

Along the same vein, I wouldn't be surprised if Fool actually got his wish and Laimbeer gets a look as the coach. It would be purely a marketing move, just like bringing Isiah back into the fold would be.



I tweeted a link to this thread, and two minutes later, Terry Foster tweets this:


This might be the time to bring in Bill Laimbeer to the Pistons after the season. The team will be young and he has his seasoning.

The Al Sharpton of message boards?

Buffalo Wild Wings

That still cracks me up.

it's true dude he did not say that

Would Joe D ever hire Isiah to coach the Pistons? What if he was told to by ownership?

He steps down his figurehead role at that point.

Now Foster, Stoney & some other low rent hack are talking about Laimbeer, lol.

Stoney no likey the idea. http://twitter.com/stoney16

IBMSBAJDWALHFP

LOL PAT SUMMIT!

Stoney is terrible.

Why do you hate Laimbeer again, Glan (other than producing that horrible daughter)? I think he'd be decent and certainly at least deserves a chance. KLove raves about him and credits alot of his improvement to working with him.

You're baiting me, right?

Let's not do this again.

You're baiting me, right?

Let's not do this again.
I honestly don't remember but don't care enough to make you explain.

Gla is afraid of girls.

I honestly don't remember but don't care enough to make you explain.

Thanks, I don't have it in me today.

And yes, that's it, Fool.

Thinks being a snitch on the Raptors (Curry) is more experience than coaching in the WNBA (seriously, that was his position).

Not gonna draw me in.

Only 4 votes?

JOE STAYS:
Joe's made some serious errors over the years, but he's paid for them. He put together a championship team that contended for years. Lately he has been basically paralyzed by the death of the old man and the impending sale of the team, so you can't really blame him for that.

JOE GOES:
Some mistakes keep recurring and will almost certainly continue into the future - the bizarre warehousing of shooting guards, the inability to develop young talent, the overpaying of underperforming role players, the relationships with players that undermine the coach's authority. I know Rip has turned out to be kind of a prick but Joe should have known better than to make an enemy out of him. Trying to force PGs on the team when they don't fit. Being generally bad at the part of the job that involves personalities and massaging egos. Talking to the media only as long as they didn't ask the tough questions. Not being indisputably "in charge." Gambling too often on longshots.

Conclusion:
Joe's made some mistakes and lived with the consequences, and that has taught me to respect him. However, there are some mistakes he keeps making over and over again and does not seem to ever learn from them, and it's reasonable to assume he will continue making them. If there is a proven alternative available, Joe should go.

If there is a proven alternative available, Joe should go.
No such thing would ever be available and anybody in their right mind would have to understand we'd probably roll dice on a lateral move at best(and I don't even think we'd get that). I honestly don't mind ideas of who people think should be gone, but it'd be nice for them to think past 2 seconds and actually explain what they want overall so we can make sure the pitch forks they are carrying aren't leading us into a too uppity for our own good unappreciative gutter. And I say that in general, don't really intend it towards any one person at all.

Only 4 votes?
I pass on polls like these.

Joe Dumars is goblin.

I couldn't remember the goblin line. Nice.

No such thing would ever be available and anybody in their right mind would have to understand we'd probably roll dice on a lateral move at best(and I don't even think we'd get that). I honestly don't mind ideas of who people think should be gone, but it'd be nice for them to think past 2 seconds and actually explain what they want overall so we can make sure the pitch forks they are carrying aren't leading us into a too uppity for our own good unappreciative gutter. And I say that in general, don't really intend it towards any one person at all.

How about getting John Hammond out of Milwaukee? With Gores' Lakers ties, how about Jerry West?

I'm going to vote yes he should keep his job.

I think he deserves to go. Some reasons he deserves to go:

He was wrong about changing his vision in 2005. He didn't make defense or the front line his top priorities and that affected all his decisons in both player personnel and coaches he hired.
He has squandered too many decent draft picks.
He bet on Stucky in so many ways and lost.
He waited way too long to change the dynamic of the team after 2005 and then did so horrbily.


But I think he should stay for now for one reason alone. I think GM's should be fired only if the team is so god-awful everyone has to go (read: Millen), or the owner's already got a good idea of whom he wants (or at least the type of GM he wants). I don't think we have either and therefore I don't think, right now, that firing Joe would help a lot.

How about getting John Hammond out of Milwaukee? With Gores' Lakers ties, how about Jerry West?
Kinda making my point here, you are just grasping at names more so to feel right about wanting Joe peaced out rather than ideas. Hammond falls under lateral at best. Jerry West doesn't even sound plausible Tom Gores reaches be damned.

Okay, so Joe should just keep his job forever because I (or anyone) can't name a possible replacement that you like. That's your point.

Seriously dude, why do you even go to message boards if you don't enjoy hypotheticals?

Someone could name the greatest GM of all time and you'd still say "now you are just grasping at names".

THAT'S WHAT YOU DO ON A FUCKING MESSAGEBOARD

I think his record over the last 5 years says he should be fired.

Don't want to go through all the mistakes but I think the main thing was letting our contender fall apart while he watched it!

I didn't expect the organisation to continue contending forever but we just stood pat the whole time, letting the players walk for nothing (Big Ben) before finally giving up (the Billups trade)

And after finally giving up and choosing to rebuild Joe blew it! With $18 million in cap space!

I agree he won't be fired - that's not a good look for the new owner... but maybe the new owner wants to start fresh?

You could easily fire Johnny K, fire Joe, hire Kevin Pritchard as GM and see if you can't get Nate McMillan or Mike Woodson or even Sloan's assistant (forget his name atm) to coach...

Then on Draft Day throw money at everyone looking to dump their Draft picks and make some big trade with Rip and those picks.

You can re-energise the fanbase without Joe, without Laimbeer - it's all about the team on the floor.

I'm certain the fanbase would prefer a young, hard working team that represents "hope" for a better future than this current clusterfuck of "well, we're rebuilding, but we still got our vets so we can pretend we're competitive"

Since I was the guy calling for Joe to be fired 2+ years ago my answer is pretty obvious. Fire is ass, the quicker the better. Joe had a chance to rebuild and we got an extended Rip and Max along with overpaid CV and Ben Gordon. The team has no plan forward and the only good moves by Joe over the past 4 years were either to fix previous mistakes (trading Nazr) or no-brainers (Monroe, T-Mac, etc.)

Besides that, Joe has let the team get away from him. He has made piss poor head coaching decisions, handled players badly, and gone back on his word over and over (I'm getting an experienced coach, no more complacency, etc. etc.). Joe just hasn't made any particularly good decisions in any area over the last few years (3,4,5) and the team has suffered. There is no reason to think that giving him another chance would change anything.

Is JoeD just GM or Pres too?

I wouldn't mind if he had some over him to aprove the deals he wants.

But if he is the 1st and last word on trades, c ya Joe.

Okay, so Joe should just keep his job forever because I (or anyone) can't name a possible replacement that you like. That's your point.

Seriously dude, why do you even go to message boards if you don't enjoy hypotheticals?

Someone could name the greatest GM of all time and you'd still say "now you are just grasping at names".

THAT'S WHAT YOU DO ON A FUCKING MESSAGEBOARD
You're being a big baby about this seriously. You'd tell me what my point was until the cows came home then rant off like it was said. My point is draw up something better give some i don't know....ummm thought to a scenario. And as much as you hide it behind jokes, Joe D's job status is a is a bigger deal to you than me. Message boards are for open thoughts, rants, and criticism too. Apparently not of anyone here. Apologies for violating that, bitch on Captain, it is your ship after all. :)

IBMSBAJDWALHFP

Since I was the guy calling for Joe to be fired 2+ years ago my answer is pretty obvious. Fire is ass, the quicker the better. Joe had a chance to rebuild and we got an extended Rip and Max along with overpaid CV and Ben Gordon. The team has no plan forward and the only good moves by Joe over the past 4 years were either to fix previous mistakes (trading Nazr) or no-brainers (Monroe, T-Mac, etc.)

Besides that, Joe has let the team get away from him. He has made piss poor head coaching decisions, handled players badly, and gone back on his word over and over (I'm getting an experienced coach, no more complacency, etc. etc.). Joe just hasn't made any particularly good decisions in any area over the last few years (3,4,5) and the team has suffered. There is no reason to think that giving him another chance would change anything.

he became fat and lazy, other than that his change in philosophy is the worst thing that happened to this franchise in years...whatever happened to defense first, tough guys, unselfish play? this team has no identity (and no star player, which is not so much DUmars fault, they are hard to come by and you cant do much ANYMORE without some MVP type of players - exception of the rule was 04, but it only works once every 20 years or so)
...Gordon, Villanueva signings are inexcusable in my opinion, extending RIP and Maxiell even made it worse, those 4 moves set the franchise back for years...i think he should go, give some young Presti like GM a chance if there is one out there

I don't think it's fair to say people calling for Joe to go need to offer suggestions for a replacement. Unlike player prospects, it's a lot harder to know who is out there when it comes to GMs and to a great extent coaches. However, we can certainly see the performance of the guy in the job right now and want improvement.

His strength was in managing relationships behind the scenes and identifying effective "piston DNA" guys in the bargain bin and he has lost his touch on both fronts. I think it's time for him to go, new ownership is good excuse for a clean break with no hard feelings.

I don't think it's fair to say people calling for Joe to go need to offer suggestions for a replacement. Unlike player prospects, it's a lot harder to know who is out there when it comes to GMs and to a great extent coaches.

Ok, work harder and be better at posting. Standards are high in a thread like this. Don't half ass your posts. Sometimes it's ok to have an opinion about something but keep it to yourself cause it's out of your pay grade.

Ok, work harder and be better at posting. Standards are high in a thread like this. Don't half ass your posts. Sometimes it's ok to have an opinion about something but keep it to yourself cause it's out of your pay grade.

Speaking of half assed, what part of that constituted you taking, supporting or refuting a position on the topic? When you start holding yourself to some standards, get back to me.

Look, plenty of people who come into GM jobs aren't exactly household names before they get there and establish themselves. I don't need a list of candidates for replacement to see that Joe isn't getting it done any more.

Then step out of your household.

I got nothin'.

I accept your apology.

"I have nothing"

^ lmao. That's a good one.

WTF translator still working.

Fire Joe?.. C'mon now... no one wants to admit that teams who are perennial winners eventually have to accept their salary fate and the age of their players... then there's the minor thing about high draft picks and no financial freedom with a tight owner.
So he finally get's some cap space and is stuck with one of the worst F.A. crops in recent memory... can we ask an honest question... if Joe passes on the available F.A.s in 2009 is everyone ok with saving for the next year... pretty sure the answer is hell to the naw... that year sucked for FAs.. everyone knows this to be true.
Mistakes?... sure enough (btw I don't count C.B. for A.I. as a mistake considering our playoff failures)... Afflalo still burns my ass.. never liked B.G. or C.V... does this eliminate all of the good moves?
The coach hiring?... yep, Pops, LB and Jackson were lining up for the glamorous position on a declining team... who were the available PROVEN candidates again?
The grass is always green on the other side of the septic... folks that think a little deeper understand the cycle.

Fire Joe?.. C'mon now... no one wants to admit that teams who are perennial winners eventually have to accept their salary fate and the age of their players... then there's the minor thing about high draft picks and no financial freedom with a tight owner.
So he finally get's some cap space and is stuck with one of the worst F.A. crops in recent memory... can we ask an honest question... if Joe passes on the available F.A.s in 2009 is everyone ok with saving for the next year... pretty sure the answer is hell to the naw... that year sucked for FAs.. everyone knows this to be true.
Mistakes?... sure enough (btw I don't count C.B. for A.I. as a mistake considering our playoff failures)... Afflalo still burns my ass.. never liked B.G. or C.V... does this eliminate all of the good moves?
The coach hiring?... yep, Pops, LB and Jackson were lining up for the glamorous position on a declining team... who were the available PROVEN candidates again?
The grass is always green on the other side of the septic... folks that think a little deeper understand the cycle.
I agree with a lot of this. I also kind of think that maybe Joe knew a lot more than the rest of us about what was about to happen with the ownership situation. I think he realized if he didn't spend the money then, who knew when he'd be able to spend it.... Same reason he tried to reward Rip while he still had a chance. Who knew how long it would take to get a sale done, who knew if he'd immediately be fired regardless when it did go down, etc.

Still doesn't excuse alot of things but at least offers some sort of explanation that doesn't include Dumars all of a sudden becoming completely incompetent.

But he didn't become incompetent overnight...

He sat on his hands while we were a contender and Davidson was still alive. Sure, the old man didn't want to pay the tax - not cool IMO while we're contending but I don't own the fucking team.

But instead of trading an aging Ben Wallace for an up and coming young big man (or young anything), or moving Billups or Rip or especially Prince (always viewed as the least of our starting 5) Joe made a conscious choice to let us rise and fall with the aging players.

At no point in time did he attempt to bring in quality youth. At no point in time did we make trades with an eye to rebuilding. And due to our owner not wanting to pay the tax we didn't make any trades to improve our lot at the time either!

So we did nothing as an organisation for 3-5 years.... The Iverson trade IMO was always a cap space move. Iverson was brought in so that when his contract ran out, along with Sheed's we would bring in some youth and finally start to rebuild...

Yet Joe fucked that up!

We can argue all day if David Lee is worth $10 million per season or if the Knicks were going to match an offer that big but the fact remains we had Stuckey, Rip and Prince as starters and no fucking big men! We spent our cap space on Nova and Ben fucking Gordon!

That's simply not smart - Boozer could have opted out if we sent word we'd give him the MAX! Trades could have been made with that cap space.

You can blame the last 12-18 months on the death of Billy D.

What do you blame the previous 3 or 4 years on?

I agree with a lot of this. I also kind of think that maybe Joe knew a lot more than the rest of us about what was about to happen with the ownership situation. I think he realized if he didn't spend the money then, who knew when he'd be able to spend it.... Same reason he tried to reward Rip while he still had a chance. Who knew how long it would take to get a sale done, who knew if he'd immediately be fired regardless when it did go down, etc.

Still doesn't excuse alot of things but at least offers some sort of explanation that doesn't include Dumars all of a sudden becoming completely incompetent.

I honestly never thought about the ownership change playing a factor in his spending, but that's an interesting point. A few journalists have written that Joe always pays market value or higher to player in an effort to always be attractive to future possibilities.

My only dead horse with the coaching thing is that he made a big mistake choosing Flip over Nate McMillan. That goes with his change in philosophy and his prediction that an athletic outside game would be the future of the NBA.

Dumars/Langlois

Part 1:
http://www.nba.com/pistons/features/dumars_110216.html

Part 2:
http://www.nba.com/pistons/features/dumars_110217.html

The ownership change has nothing to do with Joe's poor decisions. It has limited his ability to correct them but that's it.

I also thing the "poor crop of FA's" is also a joke. Joe OVERPAID BG and CV on the very first day. He could have waited and likely signed both for cheaper. If we had cap space there were several quality players available that were unloaded by their teams pretty much just for cap space. (Jefferson, Okafor, Beasly, etc.)

Joe let Kwame and Sheed walk for nothing. Both were expirings and had value but Joe sat on his hands.

Joe traded away quality players for.....nothing. Afflalo and Budinger are both playing well for their teams and we received little or nothing for them. Joe gave away Billups for pretty much nothing.

And drafting and coaching choices....where to start.

Joe has sucked at his job the last 4-5 years. He shows no signs of improving and it's time for a change, plain and simple.

Dumars likes the word "forward"

Fast food drive-throughs only go one direction.

Fast food drive-throughs only go one direction.

Excellence.

But he didn't become incompetent overnight...

He sat on his hands while we were a contender and Davidson was still alive. Sure, the old man didn't want to pay the tax - not cool IMO while we're contending but I don't own the fucking team.

But instead of trading an aging Ben Wallace for an up and coming young big man (or young anything), or moving Billups or Rip or especially Prince (always viewed as the least of our starting 5) Joe made a conscious choice to let us rise and fall with the aging players.

At no point in time did he attempt to bring in quality youth. At no point in time did we make trades with an eye to rebuilding. And due to our owner not wanting to pay the tax we didn't make any trades to improve our lot at the time either!


Can't have your cake and eat it too. We were in the final 4 every year.



So we did nothing as an organisation for 3-5 years.... The Iverson trade IMO was always a cap space move. Iverson was brought in so that when his contract ran out, along with Sheed's we would bring in some youth and finally start to rebuild...

Yet Joe fucked that up!

We can argue all day if David Lee is worth $10 million per season or if the Knicks were going to match an offer that big but the fact remains we had Stuckey, Rip and Prince as starters and no fucking big men! We spent our cap space on Nova and Ben fucking Gordon!

That's simply not smart - Boozer could have opted out if we sent word we'd give him the MAX! Trades could have been made with that cap space.

You can blame the last 12-18 months on the death of Billy D.

What do you blame the previous 3 or 4 years on?

I don't agree with his moves or think they were the right ones, I'm simply offering one possible explanation for why he may have panicked and made them. Offering alternatives such as wishcasting that if we had broken the NBA rules and tampered to get Boozer is just silly.

KEITH LANGLOIS: Joe, let’s start today with a non-Pistons topic. Jerry Sloan resigned as Utah’s coach last week. He started there not long after you entered the NBA as a player. I know from talking to you over the years how much you’ve admired the discipline and the preparation his teams always displayed. What are your memories of Jerry Sloan?

JOE DUMARS: He was one of my favorite coaches in the league since I’ve been in the league. Disciplined, tough, had a system, they acquired the type of players that could play in his system and they had tremendous success with Jerry Sloan. He has been one of my favorite coaches for the last 20 years.

Um damn, talk about reaching out, lol. I guess we know who Joe is eying on his wish list at least first question and all.

Vinny - do u honestly think tampering doesn't happen all the time?

It would have been easy to send word to Boozer, or fucking sign David Lee to an offer sheet - we had $18 million and no bigs! We signed a forward afraid of rebounding and an under-sized SG!

As for us finishing in the Final 4 every year - it was obvious to many that we were on the decline. But if you're one of those people who just wants to make the playoffs every season then that stretch is probably a real fucking highlight. For me it's painful to watch our squad go from legit contenders to pretenders.... as Joe and the entire organisation stand by and let it happen!

We could have done something, anything to change it up. Moved some future draft picks for a higher pick, traded over-valued role players for future picks or younger players, got something for Big Ben...

If memory serves once we got Sheed every fucking move after that except Dice (does Soup count?) turned out shit for us for a good long stretch

That's so fucking sad

What suggestions did you have other than trading our starting center/face of the franchise?

What suggestions did you have other than trading our starting center/face of the franchise?

Many starting centers are not household names. This is not a fair question. What if the face of our franchise is Spencer Hawes?

Bulls had the cap room for Boozer and a max contract. We weren't getting Boozer. It's easy to pretend to get guys. It's harder to actually get them.

True, but the guys we got are really bad, so it's just as easy to pretend we didn't get them. I know I HATED the signings, so I think it's fair to believe something else could have been done.

Also true, but didn't you just scold someone for coming with a "Dumars is so bad I don't need to provide an alternative" argument?

I don't think you asked that no one propose anything. I think you are asking for better arguments, as have I. I also understand, as you stated about adding players, that it is harder to find a new GM than to keep the one we have. I think the onus lies on those 2 parties to make the debate despite the regular ease of many dismissals.

it is harder to find a new GM than to keep the one we have.

He should stay because candidate searches are hard? I guess it's lifetime employment for Joe.

I didn't say that. That quote doesn't say that.

Many starting centers are not household names. This is not a fair question. What if the face of our franchise is Spencer Hawes?
If Spencer Hawes were the face of our franchise, I think it would be pretty safe to assume that we wouldn't have been going to the conference finals every year so it becomes an entirely different discussion.

I agree the onus is on the one proposing the alternative possibility.

Hermy is on the ropes.

It's going to take a while to get used to these new serious internet rulez.

With hopes of not sounding like i don't think he needs to improve the current situation. I don't get the "horrific work" stigma being placed on Dumars. two losing seasons out of 10? 1-2 playoffs missed? 6 trips to ECF, 1 NBA Title, 2 Finals appearances, no genuine franchise mega stars, 7 seasons with 50 or more wins(if I was told 10 years ago we'd want to fire an exec who brought us 50+ win teams 70 percent of the time i'd tell him bizarro took over the future), and working in a smaller market with no cap wiggle room. His resume won't be HOF level as an exec, but under the circumstances and based on what it took to get qualities players here before he got here(draft and severe overpay), I just can't relate with the rush to move on to someone else based solely on his mistakes rather than his body of work.

Also even with things dysfunctional, players like playing under Dumars, they had lil' to no desire to play here before he took over.

With hopes of not sounding like i don't think he needs to improve the current situation. I don't get the "horrific work" stigma being placed on Dumars. two losing seasons out of 10? 1-2 playoffs missed? 6 trips to ECF, 1 NBA Title, 2 Finals appearances, no genuine franchise mega stars, 7 seasons with 50 or more wins(if I was told 10 years ago we'd want to fire an exec who brought us 50+ win teams 70 percent of the time i'd tell him bizarro took over the future), and working in a smaller market with no cap wiggle room. His resume won't be HOF level as an exec, but under the circumstances and based on what it took to get qualities players here before he got here(draft and severe overpay), I just can't relate with the rush to move on to someone else based solely on his mistakes rather than his body of work.

Also even with things dysfunctional, players like playing under Dumars, they had lil' to no desire to play here before he took over.

A different perspective on that 10-year body of work is five years of meteoric rise where everything he touched turned to gold basically through the 2005 finals. Followed by five years of decline. Slow at first and now having accelerated rapidly with the worst being the most recent. Five years where that golden touch has been mostly absent with a small number of low-impact successes standing with a very large number of roster and coaching moves ranging from lateral to bust.

His total body of work is to be celebrated but following that arc, his trajectory and the state of the team call for change.

Dumars MOST recent moves haven't been bad. He signed T-Mac, extended Bynum and Big Ben. None of those moves could really be considered bad. Actually, if you look at the impact those 3 guys have had on this team, and the salary that they're paid, you could say he was one of the better GMs.

A different perspective on that 10-year body of work is five years of meteoric rise where everything he touched turned to gold basically through the 2005 finals.
That would be great if that were what I said. Please stop changing my posts to your convenience. I think you can make your point w/o it G.

That would be great if that were what I said. Please stop changing my posts to your convenience. I think you can make your point w/o it G.

What you quoted was a statement of my own perspective. The word different was intended to distinguish it as something separate from yours, not a restatement or change of what you said. The only similarity was using a 10 year frame of reference. Hope that clears it up.

Dumars MOST recent moves haven't been bad. He signed T-Mac, extended Bynum and Big Ben. None of those moves could really be considered bad. Actually, if you look at the impact those 3 guys have had on this team, and the salary that they're paid, you could say he was one of the better GMs.

Those would be the types of things I have in mind when I think of low impact successes.

If Spencer Hawes were the face of our franchise, I think it would be pretty safe to assume that we wouldn't have been going to the conference finals every year so it becomes an entirely different discussion.

I was sarcastically suggesting it was unfair to ask for examples.

I'm confused about your position in this thread.

You should give examples. If the thread was "should we trade Tayshaun." I would hope someone would have mentioned a player to trade him for by now. This thread is Real GM awful just a bunch of emo. I think those are my only 2 opinions. I could have just brought the suggestions I guess but I was hoping to use this as an opportunity. Russ is usually a decent poster in OT so I'd hoped he could bring that here. Instead everything just got worse, he got sensitive, Vinny got confused, you got confused, Tahoe got confused. I apologize to everyone, I promise my intentions were not this mess.

Hermy, you got put in check over something silly you posted, get over it. Takes a lot of gall to piss and moan about your standards and the the quality of a thread when the only thing you brought to the thread was that pissing and moaning. Want a better thread you can start with your next reply.

I got confused, too.

Hermy, you got put in check over something silly you posted, get over it. Takes a lot of gall to piss and moan about your standards and the the quality of a thread when the only thing you brought to the thread was that pissing and moaning. Want a better thread you can start with your next reply.

Put in check? You let me know I made you sad and you wanted me to stop. You at least owe me a "yes, I made a shitty post" comment after I took my "I did a bad job correcting you" pill.

The only thing you brought to the thread was your tears, Hermy. The only thing I owe you is a dismissal.

snap.

Hey, how about you talk about GM candidates.

I GOTS POPCORN

This is 3rd grade shit, like my reading level.

Fuck all you hoes.

This is 3rd grade shit, like my reading level.


No fuckin cursin or fuckin swearin. Fuckin weak.

Hey, how about you talk about GM candidates.

I'll talk about his replacement after they shitcan Joe and do a proper search.

Cool. I'll talk about the republican primary candidates sometime around October '12.

You'll just vote for Obama because finding a new guy is so much harder.

^ WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Where did you come up with that anyway? Was the quote you originally posted when you said I said that the first time a mistake on your part or did you read it wrong?

GM candidate list should include:

Kevin Pritchard - Formerly of the Blazers. Turned Blazers around in 4 years. Credited with drafting Roy and Aldridge. Insanely active with trades during and for the draft. Signed Miller and Pryzbilla to good contracts. Fired for patting himself on the back too much and for trying to trick his owner, MS owner Paul Allen, into giving him a raise. Also did that bullshit where he threatened the entire league to try and keep Darius Miles from being signed so the Blazers wouldn't take a cap hit (Successful and a sleezy just like the new owner, also comes with his own "Darko" moment only it was bigger). Interviewed for the Nets job (they hired retread disaster in the making Billy King).

Dennis Lindsey - Currently Assistant GM of the Spurs (formerly of Houston where he was passed over as GM for advanced statistics acolyte Daryl Morley). Don't know really what to credit him with as he's never been more than an assistant and the Spurs were great before he got there. At the least he's been in two different types of successful systems (Free agent superstar building Rockets, and draft-for-success Spurs). Been interviewed for the Minnesota job (they hired Stern's recommendation and noted Darko fan David Kahn) and the Suns job (Sarver hired Grant Hill's agent Lon Babby, apparently so he could boss Babby around on player personnel decisions).

Jeff Bower - Twice the former GM of the Hornets (with a stint as their coach in between). Cut loose "The Baron", signed Chris Paul (though Gla gives him no credit for that since he was a "no brainer" pick when he "fell into their lap" at #4 when the Hawks didn't take him). Negatives include blowing his off-season wad on Peja and hiring two time CoY, but still a terrible coach, Byron Scott (who he later fired and took over as coach for). Bower was already let go when this current version of the Hornets was put together (he also didn't draft West). He was also interviewed for the Nets job.

Barkely says we wants to be a GM. Positive moves include insulting Kenny Smith, throwing fools through plate glass windows. Negative moves including letting the cops stop him from getting Blow-jobs, spitting on little girls.

Tom Izzo

Motown

Vinny: I posted this "We could have done something, anything to change it up. Moved some future draft picks for a higher pick, traded over-valued role players for future picks or younger players, got something for Big Ben..."

And then you ask me "What suggestions did you have other than trading our starting center/face of the franchise?"

Reading is FUN-damental!

Joe could have moved future picks to move up in the Draft, could have traded role players for young talent or future picks...

Isn't the GM supposed to walk the tightrope of winning now and preparing for the future? Joe did a poor fucking job of preparing for the future. The organisation rode Big Ben, Sheed, Tay, Rip and Billups into the fucking ground.

I'm not gonna go back through every single trade we made after 2003 but I think it's pretty obvious we didn't get much for the assets we were dealing. Part of that was due to the luxury tax that Davidson refused to pay - but you can blame Joe and his crew for not managing the cap better.

As for GM candidates to replace Joe - won't that depend on the owner?

Gores may want to put his own stamp on the franchise from the start so you never know what could happen - we might end up with some guy only our old friend Grizz would have info on

Isn't the GM supposed to walk the tightrope of winning now and preparing for the future? Joe did a poor fucking job of preparing for the future. The organisation rode Big Ben, Sheed, Tay, Rip and Billups into the fucking ground.
Against let me apply the asterisk that I don't think everything he touch is gold or that he hasnt made mistakes. With that said, he did not do what you are saying. The Spurs are riding players to the end and adding back ups around them always. Maybe he should have done that. That means keeping Billups, Rip, and Tay, then adding help in the role player position and through draft. He was getting blasted for that. Told that we gotta get guys like stuckey starting ASAP. Now the only guy starting is Tay and we are getting young guys involved that seem to have a future here in Daye, eventually Jerebko, Monroe, and yes Stuckey even. Again not saying its guaranteed star light star bright. But "poor" and "turrible!" are extremities by far IMO.

Thanks Fool. I was just standing on principal here.

I think a definite candidate should be Ronnie Lester. Midwest guy, LA ties, black guy keeps the "the you fired the other black guy too early cause he was a black guy" talk down, was the scout who drove the kobe pick, and pushed hard for Bynum as well so he can spot young talent and isn't afraid to take the risks you need to switch gears around here.

But Joe didn't plug in other guys around Sheed, Tay, Rip and Billups - we already had Dice when Big Ben walked!

We didn't trade any role players off those Final 4 teams or any future picks to acquire any young players on the way up!

All shit teams have young guys that for 1 reason or another aren't working out. It's risky to trade for those kind of guys but when you have a team full of veterans (and are making the playoffs every season) maybe you can take that risk?

The fact we did not draft or trade for anything of note from 2003 to whenever Stuckey was drafted is all the evidence you need that we rode our successful vets into the ground.

When it comes down to it Joe had 4 draft picks in what was considered a "deep" draft and $18 million in cap space to get this fucking organisation back on track, on the right path towards being a contender again.

We needed legit big men because we already had Stuckey, Rip and Tay under contract as "starters"

Did we draft DaJuan Blair? No! Did we sign David Lee? No! Did we trade for Tyson Chandler or Emeka Okafor? No!

We got Daye, Jerebko, Summers and Budinger in the Draft - not one of them a legit 4 or 5.

We then signed BG and Nova with our cap space AND had to fucking trade Afflalo to create enough space to sign Chris fucking Wilcox!

It boggles my mind how people can defend Joe when the last 3 or 4 years have been so fucked!

If he was your average fucker in a suit everyone would want his head on a platter

I remember the days when Affalo was mediocre to people in here. He became a valuable asset almost around the same time he was traded.

I honestly disliked him for much of his tenure here. He made huge strides at the end of his tenure and I remember posting about how wrong I was about his value. And then Joe gave him away.

And your notion that people were telling Joe to force Stuckey into a major role is lol stupid. Stuckey was/is Joe's pet project. And you're a blatant apologist.

And your notion that people were telling Joe to force Stuckey into a major role is lol stupid. Stuckey was/is Joe's pet project. And you're a blatant apologist.
Are you skipping that general point on purpose or are you just that petty?

You had a point?

I was especially pissed off when Joe gave away Afflalo. The guy was our best defensive guard, averaged 13-14 ppg when starting (Rip was hurt), was a great FT shooter (took many of the Tech. FTs) and was particularly poised as a rookie hitting several clutch shots.

Keep in mind that Joe also gave away Amir. Amir never got serious PT and Joe could have traded him when he had good (or even very good) trade value. Instead, Amir sat on the bench and Joe gave him away for an expiring.

Amir got time. He couldn't stay on the floor.

Amir barely got time. He played a whole 11 games his first two years. His 3rd and 4th years he played in 62 games with 12.3 and 14.7 minutes. His development was not managed well at all and then we gave him away for nothing. At one time he was a big time prospect and has good trade value. The fact that we gave him away for an expiring is just stupid, especially seeing what Toronto was willing to give him in FA. It was a bad job by Joe (AGAIN) all the way around.

IIRC, Amir was having trouble staying on the floor with a per-48 foul rate of about 850.

Any time you trade young, cheap talent for nothing it's a bad deal.

The Afflalo trade just highlights how fucking stupid Joe and his boys are/were - we had all that cap space, those 4 draft picks to get some bigs.

With Tay, Rip, Stuckey, Bynum and Afflalo already under contract!

Logic tells you that you need to get big men - not just any fucking talent you can find.

Why did we need to trade Afflalo? We didn't - he was cheap, had some potential and had a good work ethic...

I ranted on it at the time - they had all those picks and all that cap space and didn't land any legit big!

That's poor management.

It's poor management to pass on DaJuan Blair in the second round - we're talking a non-guaranteed contract here.

I've ranted on our Draft history often. Other people have ranted on the coaching hires.

Consider our inability to Draft well or acquire younger talent during our days as a contender, combine it with the coaching changes over the last 5 seasons, add in the fact Detroit is not a desired destination for free agents AND then throw in the death of our owner...

It's a clusterfruck!

And if Joe was not such a legend everyone would be calling for his fucking head.

No one said Joe was good at developing guys, but playing most of two seasons while starting 25 games one year is "serious PT". Particularly the last year he was here they clearly wanted the kid to shine and gave him the playing time to do so.

Yeah, passing on DeJuan Blair was goddamn retarded. We took DaJuan Summers instead. and, Jason Maxiell was selected 11 spots earlier in a different draft.

I'd rather have DeJuan Blair than Summers and Maxiell combined >:-(

This is the rare thread where trying to make sense makes no sense.

After Blair threw Thabeet over his shoulder and won me some Alpacas, I was all in with Blair. I see peeps on this board now saying they wanted him, but I don't remember it. Then again, I don't remember what I had for breakfast.

^ Just trying to make some sense in this thread. notreally

After Blair threw Thabeet over his shoulder and won me some Alpacas, I was all in with Blair. I see peeps on this board now saying they wanted him, but I don't remember it. Then again, I don't remember what I had for breakfast.

I for one wanted Blair before Summers and remember Blair being a projected as a mid to late first rounder. I also wanted Ty Lawson instead of Daye. Joe doesn't seem to draft for need or best player available. He seems to go after players that meets his "standards". So far that hasn't worked out too well.

Blair had shoulder issues iirc. But he was still my choice.

After Blair threw Thabeet over his shoulder and won me some Alpacas, I was all in with Blair. I see peeps on this board now saying they wanted him, but I don't remember it. Then again, I don't remember what I had for breakfast.

If you feel like reading the draft thread from that year, I think "many" here wanted Blair when he fell.

Blair had shoulder issues iirc. But he was still my choice.

No ACLs in either knee or something.

^ I don't want to read it cuz I prolly didn't say anything. But, trust me, I wanted him after meeting Thabeet.

I remember thinking he would prolly help fix that 'soft in the middle' problem the Pistons were having.

Kstat loved Thabeet.

"next Mutombo" right?

Word for word.

You had a point?
Did you in the process of trying to be witty?

You've had a light pole up your ass on discussion going on the past two years at least. Damn shame you're still a mod with that humongous petty uppity ass chip on your shoulder. Coincides with loss of posters oddly enough. Good luck with that nonsense, I personally think it's a waste of time. But this is obviously your playground as of late.

Dyno - I don't think it's any secret GD has his opinions and states them often - but isn't that the point of this place?

Who gives a fuck if he hates Stuckey, hates Joe, hates the Coaches (Curry and Q) - he has a right to express that opinion whenever he wants.

You have the right to try and change his mind (good luck with that).

Koolaid and I rarely agree. Vinny and I have our moments - but if either party stopped posting then the place would have less discussion and that's a fucking bad thing.

The more people argue the better. I hate the fucking "mob mentality".

Gutz is honestly the one poster whose input I just don't take seriously. The next impartial or insightful thought that he shares will be the first. Even Kstat thinks he likes Joe D too much. And no, "You can't blame Joe for XYZ" (insert any of Joe's obvious mistakes here) doesn't qualify as insight.

The closest thing to a "point" I saw in his drivel was "You can't blame Joe for trading Afflalo because some fans didn't like him". I cleaned that up a bit so y'all could actually understand it.

I don't care what your opinion is, as long as it's well-reasoned and coherent. He simply fails that test 99 times out of 100.

#straighttalk

We can continue arguing about what Joe did right and did wrong but the truth is the truth. This team is not very good and is in turmoil. We have no real owner. We are in need of another coaching change. We have more than one unhappy player in the team. We have several bad (or at least not good) contracts and have few assets. This team was one of the best in the NBA and is now a team that no free agents want to play for unless they are grossly overpaid. The stands are very empty most games and the excitement at games is minimal. Most of this has to fall on Joe's shoulders.

This could have been a great organization like the Redwings. The Wings are the perfect template or a great organization All of the assets were there and despite Mr. D's death, if done properly this team would still be great. It didn't happen and there appears to be no direction for the team. This team needs a major shake up. We will soon have a new owner. We need a new coach. To complete the transition, it also goes to say that we need a new GM.

[smilie=heatsmiley2:[smilie=heatsmiley2:[smilie=heatsmiley2:[smilie=heatsmiley2:[smilie=rulez.gif][smilie=rulez.gif][smilie=rulez.gif]

Glan is out of control, Mod powers clearly gone to his head.

Gutz is honestly the one poster whose input I just don't take seriously. The next impartial or insightful thought that he shares will be the first. Even Kstat thinks he likes Joe D too much. And no, "You can't blame Joe for XYZ" (insert any of Joe's obvious mistakes here) doesn't qualify as insight.

The closest thing to a "point" I saw in his drivel was "You can't blame Joe for trading Afflalo because some fans didn't like him". I cleaned that up a bit so y'all could actually understand it.

I don't care what your opinion is, as long as it's well-reasoned and coherent. He simply fails that test 99 times out of 100.

#straighttalk
LOL...when have you ever taken someone seriously after they cut into you. How many times have you tried to spin out of making a serious reply when put on the spot? So much so that you need to tell people when you're using #straighttalk? Next time stfu when I call you out if you aren't taking me seriously in your mind. I'll live and so ill you.



You have the right to try and change his mind (good luck with that).
1.) wasn't even directing that post at him nor have I suggested that he change his bitter warped mind.

2.)The guy isn't 4 years old, I don't think anybody needs to defend him. He'll be ok mustering up just enough #straighttalk to tell me what is what in his world.

This could have been a great organization like the Redwings. The Wings are the perfect template or a great organization All of the assets were there and despite Mr. D's death, if done properly this team would still be great. It didn't happen and there appears to be no direction for the team. This team needs a major shake up. We will soon have a new owner. We need a new coach. To complete the transition, it also goes to say that we need a new GM.
Red Wings playoff collapse, great. Pistons playoff collapse, turrible. And that's before we get into the NHL's hard line cap vs the NBA's soft cap. I've said before that you seem selective in how you judge the two different teams, didn't expect it to deter your double standard though. Nonetheless to each his own, I personally think the Wings are in a completely different scenario and a bad example.

fuck all you hoes.

Red Wings playoff collapse, great. Pistons playoff collapse, turrible. And that's before we get into the NHL's hard line cap vs the NBA's soft cap. I've said before that you seem selective in how you judge the two different teams, didn't expect it to deter your double standard though. Nonetheless to each his own, I personally think the Wings are in a completely different scenario and a bad example.

Redwings playoff collapse??? So they don't win every year. The do compete and are a contender every year. The Wings have been to the playoffs for 19 (soon to be 20) straight years. That is the best record of any professional sports team. The Wings are a team that just about every player in the NHL wants to play for and that several (Modano, Nobokov (sp?)) players will ONLY play for or retire. I don't know why you hate the Wings but they are consistently voted the top or one of the top run teams in all of professional sports. That is the kind of organization the Pistons could be.

I don't see how that is a double standard but if you don't like that example, then how about the Spurs. They are another team that has been a contender every year and have been to the playoffs every year since Duncan was drafted (12?, 13?). They are also a team that most NBA players would like to play for and they don't have the glitz of a NY, LAL, or Miami. Just look at all of the assets that the Pistons have wasted over the past few years.

Regardless of whether you see either as a bad example, there are numerous templates on how to rebuild on the fly and how to run a team. Joe D has failed miserably.

We can continue arguing about what Joe did right and did wrong but the truth is the truth. This team is not very good and is in turmoil. We have no real owner. We are in need of another coaching change. We have more than one unhappy player in the team. We have several bad (or at least not good) contracts and have few assets. This team was one of the best in the NBA and is now a team that no free agents want to play for unless they are grossly overpaid. The stands are very empty most games and the excitement at games is minimal. Most of this has to fall on Joe's shoulders.



But what do we really need to be talking about here? This is still what Joe has done.

Shouldn't we be talking about who is the best person to fix this team? Everyone thinks it sucks, has bad deals, has little in terms of young assets, and has few options to improve, yes? So let's all move forward and talk about the next steps and who can do it.

Do you guys want me to start?

If we want to be completely literal, as some suddenly seem to want, then that should be another thread, shouldn't it? Maybe "Who should fix this?", since this one was "Should Joe stay or go?".

To do it here assumes consensus or near consensus that Joe should go, and we don't have that.

A discussion about whether his job performance warrants continued employment is a different discussion than "Who's next?", no?

But maybe I'm just confused again.

Dumars = sacred cow.

:KING:





...wait for it...

If we want to be completely literal, as some suddenly seem to want, then that should be another thread, shouldn't it? Maybe "Who should fix this?", since this one was "Should Joe stay or go?".

To do it here assumes consensus or near consensus that Joe should go, and we don't have that.

A discussion about whether his job performance warrants continued employment is a different discussion than "Who's next?", no?

Not if the decision to let him go would be based on if he stays.

I see this thread and all I think about is the Clash song.

I see this thread and all I think about is the Clash song.

Is the indecision killing you?

This indecision's bugging me.

Rip + future protected first for Memo DO IT JOE

BRING HIM HOME! BRING HIM HOME!

Gotta add the second "should he".

Rip and our 2011 first for Okur and Utah's 2011 first makes too much sense.

You stole my trade.

Make it happen and I'll forgive you.

I honestly think I could do a better job than Joe has.

we*, not I

YOU'RE JUST GRASPING AT NAMES

YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHO IS AVAILABLE AND WHO IS NOT

Yeah, I'm finding myself increasingly closer to boarding the Fire Joe bandwagon.

and it has more to do with his coaching choices than anything.

I'd have given Kuester some fucking ultimatums.
a) Give BG 15+ good looks.
b) Do NOT let Villanueva become unidimensional
c) Do not use Stuckey as a jumpshooter until he's proven himself.
d) Use a non-WTF rotation.

When is the trade deadline?

17 hours from now.

He goes on my super duper shit list if he doesn't do something by then. But he does have all the extra 'sale of the pistons' requirements he has to meet.

first part of what weeK?

He should go.

I can think of 5 Rip trades that make sense for both teams off the top of my head, and all I have to work with is the ESPN trade machine.

That fat, lazy, motherfucker.

lol

I seriously did not think we'd stand pat with a .356 team!

Joe Dumars (Detroit)
Should i get fired if i can't make a single trade today? My last trade was in July 2009 giving away Afflalo for the right to overpay Chris Wilcox.

John Hollinger (1:02 PM)
Ouch. Stones fans breaking out the sharp knives ... seems like the Pistons are once again vastly overvaluing Prince and Hamilton in the trade market, but we still have two hours so perhaps Joe is just starting the bidding high ....

To whoever posted that on ESPN I say well played.

Joe Asberry, man of the hour.

What was the last positive trade he made though? Do you go back to getting Sheed? Or do you consider the Billups/AI deal positive (netting BG and CV with cap space)?

What was the last positive trade he made though? Do you go back to getting Sheed? Or do you consider the Billups/AI deal positive (netting BG and CV with cap space)?

WTF? Joe was high on cocaine. Last good deal? Hmm, was JJ drafted with our pick?

I'm removing picks from the equation. Just basic trades.

Joe has to go.

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2011/01/09/amd_pistons_dumars.jpg

You should have a caption contest for that pick glan.

Mine would say:

Did I make that trade? Cocaine is a helluva drug.

I'm Joe D, bitch.

Hate him.

EPIC FAIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This should probably be here, too.


The Pistons are a bad team. Can we finally just say that? #WinsProduced http://wp.me/p13dAf-3S


Can we just say it? This is a bad team. And it’s been a bad team for several years now. No excuses. It’s not the fault of injury. It’s not the fault of underperformance. Ultimately, it’s not the fault of the coach (although I’m not sure he’s helping either).

This is on Dumars. Dumars has assembled a collection of overpaid, unproductive players. For many of them, their only skill is scoring points if they get lots of shots. And after the trade deadline passed today, it’s pretty clear the rest of the league understands that. No opposing GMs covet these players, and who can blame them?

Good read by Jemele Hill:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentary/news/story?id=6170688

Wow, I can't believe that she wrote that.

I actually agreed with her 100%, until the end, when she said he shouldn't be fired.

I'd hit it.

-1

Vomit.

Fuck you, Tahoe.

You spend that much effort making the case that someone should be fired, and you actually do a pretty good job of it, and then you puss out at the end.

Remember when I told her to fight me on Twitter?

I was just kidding.

STOP

That ain't no woman, that's a man.

Jamal Hill

Any truth to the rumor that Special K and Blaha were fired and Jemele Hill was hired to replace them?

Any truth to the rumor that Special K and Blaha were fired and Jemele Hill was hired to replace them?

Sounds about right for how things have been going with Pistons lately.

What's wrong with Jemele Hill?
I'd hit it.

What's wrong with Jemele Hill?
I'd hit it.

http://a.espncdn.com/media/motion/2010/1128/dm_101128_sr_jemele_hill.jpg


http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/content/Image/06-24-2008/Jemele-Hill.jpg



Enjoy!

man y u gotta make me pop a b when i'm at school

yeah, you dudes who would bang Jemele Hill... i wonder about you

wasn't Wil serious about that?

her eyes <3

I'd hit Karen before I'd hit Jamal, AND THAT'S REAL TALK

Sounds like Bryan Colangelo could become available, if anybody here is into that.

#justgraspingatnames

uhm no thanks, signing Hedo Turkoglu for 50+ mil, hes not any better than Dumars imo

He managed to trade away Hedo Turkoglu for a player that had two fewer years on his contract in Leandro Barbosa.
Dumars hasn't even attempted to move Gordon or Villanueva and hasn't traded away Hamilton.

Kevin Pritchard.

Isn't he rumored to be taking over for Bird in Indy? I suppose, that is, if Donnie doesn't end up returning.

I would love to see Pritchard as GM and Nate McMillan as coach next season...

It's such a shame Hammond bailed - maybe he realised if he didn't get the fuck outta town he'd be tainted by the stench?

I would love to see Pritchard as GM and Nate McMillan as coach next season...

It's such a shame Hammond bailed - maybe he realised if he didn't get the fuck outta town he'd be tainted by the stench?

Hammond has done a garbage job. Fuck him.

fuck everything

#emo

Hammond has done a garbage job. Fuck him.

True, but I think he took the job because he realised he needed to get out while the getting was good... cause I doubt he'd be much of a candidate if he stayed.

Hammond has done a garbage job. Fuck him.

SMART ENOUGH NOT TO SIGN FATBOY CHARLIE

SMART ENOUGH NOT TO SIGN FATBOY CHARLIE

Then used that cash to acquire Drew Gooden. That's like passing up a whore with the clap only to bang some herpes infected slut 12 months later. No winners there.

We'd be better off with Drew Gooden than with CV.

Of course, making that argument is like choosing a whore with the clap over banging some herpes-infested slut. Either way, we're still gonna lose.

Sounds like Bryan Colangelo could become available, if anybody here is into that.

#justgraspingatnames

Got an extension with Raps.

Cho is suddenly available.

Pritchard still is too, right? As is Penn.

And Izzo, I'm hearing.

Just grasping at names, tho.

And Izzo, I'm hearing.

I really didn't want to, but I just had to.

ATTN: FatJoeDumars

http://www.mlive.com/business/detroit/index.ssf/2011/05/hungry_howies_now_the_official.html

mmm... butter cheese crust

I'd give Joe one year to get a coach that will run whatever lineup he envisioned that would give all of Gordon, Hamilton, and Villanueva minutes, while committing to the youth that Dumars has drafted. It could be this:
Stuckey/Bynum...White
Gordon/Hamilton/Stuckey
Hamilton/Daye/Jerebko
Jerebko/Villanueva/Monroe...Maxiell
Monroe/ROOKIE/Wallace
That's a 10 man rotation out of a 12 man active roster. If we wanted to go with nine men, depending on the day, the rookie or Big Ben wouldn't play.

mmm... butter cheese crust

double butter cheese crust

Seriously, this is great news. I actually like Howie's pizza, which is more than I can say for Domino's cardboard.

I'd give Joe one year to get a coach that will run whatever lineup he envisioned that would give all of Gordon, Hamilton, and Villanueva minutes, while committing to the youth that Dumars has drafted. It could be this:
24 Stuckey/ 24 Bynum...White
32 Gordon/8 Hamilton/8 Stuckey
20 Hamilton/20 Daye/8 Jerebko
24 Jerebko/24 Villanueva/Monroe...Maxiell
32 Monroe/16 ROOKIE or Wallace
That's a 10 man rotation out of a 12 man active roster. If we wanted to go with nine men, depending on the day, the rookie or Big Ben wouldn't play.
Updated to include my theoretical minute breakdown.
Provided it's reasonable for Hamilton to play less than half of the game at SF, we could be pretty competitive next season. Gordon and Hamilton would get their starters' minutes (and improve their trade values), and for a quarter a game Stuckey could be the man and chuck to his heart's content from the SG position. Daye will get the 20mpg he received last year, but will have to improve both his tangible and intangible game to get more minutes. Villanueva will get minutes near his career average, and will have to motivate himself to play better defensively and on the boards to get more PF minutes or perhaps some at C in small lineups.

We would then of course take BPA with our second round picks, hopefully a PG and SF.

:chad:


Not only has Gores given strong support to Dumars, but he's also not pressuring Dumars to take shortcuts. Dumars will have the green light to build the team the right way in the next three years.

three years damn, thats like forever in pro sports, lucky guy

i hope they bring in a least some new assistant GM, some fresh blood, a guy who could help DUmars bargaining with agents etc., he almost always overpays, thats one of his biggest faults

Great, now we are going to absolutely suck for the next 5+ years. Too bad i'm not really a big fan of any other teams. It gets harder to be a Pistons fan when i hear this sh$t.

Pistons give Dumars three years to fix team (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/rumors/post/Pistons-give-Dumars-three-years-to-fix-team?urn=nba-361222)

Yahoo quoting Mlive quoting ESPN

Gotta love "new media".

Gotta love it when they all jump on an erroneous report and none of the three "sources" retract the article or apologize otherwise for it.

Joe Dumars hasn’t made a bad move in more than two years (http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/08/joe-dumars-hasnt-made-a-bad-move-in-more-than-two-years/)

So this is what it has come to, lol.

Joe Dumars hasn’t made a bad move in more than two years (http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/08/joe-dumars-hasnt-made-a-bad-move-in-more-than-two-years/)

So this is what it has come to, lol.

So after Joe makes a shitload of bad decisions and then our losing is rationalized because Joe's hands were tied, we have to see some BS puff piece on how Joe hasn't screwed up lately?? His hands were tied you effing moron. Oh and Joe did screw up....repeatedly in:

How he handled Rip

How he handled the "mutiny"

Not trading Tay for Butler and a 1st (which i'm sure he could have sold to mgt.)

F%#king ridiculous.