http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4a9u9pp

Dallas gets a SF for a playoff push and another big body to bang with Lakers off the bench.

Hornets move West (he's refused their extension) and get Stuckey to pair with Paul (and replace him if he leaves next year). They can also resign the injured Butler if they want to replace Peja. Tmac replaces Ariza in the rotation for this year.

Detroit gets West (can sign extension) to pair with Monroe and get rid of Max's salary. Still have Tay's deal to get another asset in (real PG maybe)?

Send it to Joe.

i'm on board

I wouldn't do it.
We get older but no better.

West is already 31, i didnt realize that, no thanks

holy shit really? 31. wow

correction: he's 30, turning 31 in august...

I know right?

I mean this in the best possible way, but fuck you guys.

Wilcox, TMac, Stuckey and Maxiell for David West, and you say no?

West has 6+ very good years left in him at a position of need. We get out of Max's deal, eliminate Joe's ability to overpay Stuckey, and shed two guys that won't be here next year anyways.

lol

yeah I'd still do it, too, I was just surprised. I was thinking 27 or 28.

I place more value in Stuckey than you do.
I don't think it's worth going 6 years older at a position that has Villanueva (who does great when playing significant minutes) and Jerebko to get back into the fold.
Especially, when, you know, it doesn't make us a playoff team.

I place more value in Stuckey than you do.
I don't think it's worth going 6 years older at a position that has Villanueva (who does great when playing significant minutes) and Jerebko to get back into the fold.
Especially, when, you know, it doesn't make us a playoff team.

David West (19 & 7 this year) makes us a playoff team. David West minus Stuckey, Maxiell, Wilcox & TMac gives us more flexibility and roster balance. David West plus a legit PG makes us a very good team.

You place more value on winning games and not having a clusterfuck for a player salary structure than he does.

David West spends very little time at C.
We give away a combo guard, PG/SG/SF depth, and a guy capable of playing both power positions.
Maxiell sucks. I refuse to credit him.

How do we have more flexibility?

2011/12

New PG/Bynum/Terrico
Rip/Gordon
Daye/Jerebko/Summers
West/CV/Jerebko
Monroe/Big Ben

With a new coach, new owner, a lottery pick and $ to spend? Plus another asset if Tay gets moved?

Yes, please.

David West spends very little time at C.
We give away a combo guard, PG/SG/SF depth, and a guy capable of playing both power positions.
Maxiell sucks. I refuse to credit him.

How do we have more flexibility?

lol. You should refuse to credit Wilcox, too.

Stuckey's not a combo guard but we should definitely turn down David West to make sure we keep Chris Wilcox.

not bad, if you can resign or extend West with a reasonable contract, thats what NO is just trying to do...and Dumars is not know for signing guys to a reasonable contract :P

2011/12

New PG/Bynum/Terrico
Rip/Gordon
Daye/Jerebko/Summers
West/CV/Jerebko
Monroe/Big Ben

With a new coach, new owner, a lottery pick and $ to spend? Plus another asset if Tay gets moved?

Yes, please.

Can't say we are a playoff team with West and say we get a lotto pick too.

Playoff team next year. I don't care about this year.

not bad, if you can resign or extend West with a reasonable contract, thats what NO is just trying to do...and Dumars is not know for signing guys to a reasonable contract :P

But a guy who's spent a career in NO will definitely sign to get away from a physically devastated and economically poor metro are......

Come on. We are like 2 games out or something. We are a playoff team this year with West.

CHRIS WILCOX IS THE FUTURE

Of course you're forgetting there's no way New Orleans does this deal. None.

Of course you're forgetting there's no way New Orleans does this deal. None.
Which made us turning it down even more impressive.

Sometimes deals are bad for both teams, yo.
and NOH does it with a future first coming their way. It's *close*.

I place more value in Stuckey than you do.
I don't think it's worth going 6 years older at a position that has Villanueva (who does great when playing significant minutes) and Jerebko to get back into the fold.
Especially, when, you know, it doesn't make us a playoff team.

Stuckey is going to walk anyway when he wants 7-8 mil a year starting (unless we find a taker for RIP)

Apart from the fact that we don't have an owner and NO is currently owned by the league I'd do this...

but who plays PG?

Bynum?

BG and Bynum for now. They probably draft one (not sure what FA options there are). They could try and get Rubio as we mentioned. I really don't care who does it this year because the year is a waste already.

True that this year is a waste but I'd rather not be forced into grabbing a PG in the Draft or via free agency.

I realise we already are kind of forced to go that way but with Stuckey here it's not so blantantly obvious (to some).

But will they really spend the money on Stuckey?

Of course they will - Joe over pays everyone...

Even though Stuckey is a RFA I expect Joe to beat any offr sheet he might get by $2 million per.

That's Joe - dude is fucking stupid when it comes to the money.... and the Draft... and he has not made a good trade for a long time...

No wonder micknugget wants him fired asap...

Besides Sharpe/Darko/Mateen Joe hasn't had many uber busts...

Rodney White off the top of m'head.

Shit I thought I typed him.

I actually get the White selection.
I'll never understand Walter Sharpe, though.

I'll never understand Walter Sharpe, though.

Give me a break. Walter Freakin' Sharpe.

He was a 2nd round pick. It's not like selecting him set the franchise back 5 years.

Darko/Mateen/White, yes those were bad draft picks. But Sharpe is irrelevant.

I'll be forever pissed that we passed up DeAndre Jordan.

I'll be forever pissed that we passed up DeAndre Jordan.

I agree. In the 2nd round why not take a flier on a big man instead of a wing player?

Are we gonna do this again? Why?

It's a known fact Joe has a poor Draft record.

It doesn't matter if he's picking high or low we missed plenty of guys that mattered.

Yeah, yeah, yeah every GM misses good players in the Draft... but how many GMs miss all the fucking time?

For like 10 years only Tayshaun Prince was a keeper! One guy in all that time? Fuck!

I ain't doing this again - it's a KNOWN fact Joe couldn't Draft for shit while he was building a contender. Give him all the credit in the world for making the right trades and signings with the MLE but on Draft Day? Fucking hopeless...

Honestly, if you made a team out of players that Joe has drafted, it wouldn't be too bad.

Stuckey/White
Afflalo/Delfino
Prince/Daye/Jerebko
Monroe/Johnson
Okur/Milicic/Maxiell

That's a helluva team, bro.

That's a lottery team.

Maybe.
But it's got pieces.

What pisses me off about Joe is how talent he's chosen has left us, and that he passed up on some clear impact players in other spots.

Do you want me to make a team we COULD have Drafted?

You got Stuckey at PG! You lose!

Didn't everyone want Ty Lawson? And Mario Chalmers? That be a nice PG pairing...

Stuckey and Afflalo at SG

Prince with Jerebko at SF

Bigs?

Chris Bosh, Greg Monroe, David Lee, Mehmet Okur and DaJuan Blair... nice combo IMO

Well, yeah.
Take the team of players Joe drafted that are still in the league and replace those that aren't legitimate players in the league:
Add DeJuan Blair instead of DeJuan Summers. And keep Chase Budinger.
Say, Goran Dragic instead of Rodney White.
Turkoglu instead of Rodney White.

I'm telling you, he's only made a few glaring mistakes in the draft. He only has a few draft picks to his name that are unexpectedly out of the league.

Only made a few glaring mistakes?

I could provide a list of guys we should have Drafted every year that turned out better than the guys we took until very recently...

I think from Stuckey onwards the organisation has done well with their picks for the most part... but before that? We were fucking useless.

And even since Stuckey you could pick some quality guys we should have taken instead of who we did take.

Lawson, Chalmers and Blair being the obvious 3

You masturbate each time you get to make that post.

You masturbate each time you get to make that post.

No I don't, it's fucking depressing dude.

The fact is we could not Draft well while we were a contender.

And that impacts everything - it put more miles on the legs of our core, it meant we had few assets to trade when the time came to rebuild and it means we are where we are right fucking now!

You think I'm happy about that shit? You think I want us to draft poorly? To waste $18 million of cap space? To be in ownership limbo?

Anything that negatively impacts the team I hate! I want us to win plain and simple...

Only made a few glaring mistakes?

I could provide a list of guys we should have Drafted every year that turned out better than the guys we took until very recently...

I think from Stuckey onwards the organisation has done well with their picks for the most part... but before that? We were fucking useless.

And even since Stuckey you could pick some quality guys we should have taken instead of who we did take.

Lawson, Chalmers and Blair being the obvious 3
I could too. Anybody could. Any fan of any team, at that.

Yeah, two all-stars and Hedo Turkoglu were picked after Mateen Cleaves. We already know this was a bust pick, and this entire draft was a bust. Joe gets a pass.
Brian Cardinal was actually the BPA. Credit to Joe.

Five All-Stars (not including Okur) were selected after Rodney White. Currently, Arenas and Johnson have insane contracts, Tony Parker is making Rip money and is becoming increasingly injury prone. We could still end up with Zach Randolph and Gerald Wallace, however. Johnson was the only player close to where White was selected. We'd have done well with Richard Jefferson or Troy Murphy, however. Joe did mess this one up (I was a huge Troy Murphy fan).
Mehmet Okur was the BPA.

Prince was the BPA save for Carlos Boozer, drafted 11 spots later. Win for Joe.

2003 was depressing and we all know this.
I'd have loved to come out of that draft with Wade/Kendrick Perkins/Marquis Daniels, but alas we took Darko/Delfino/Glyniadakis. However, Darko and Delfino are both starters in the NBA. In fact, 20 of the 33 players drafted after Delfino are out of the league.

Rickey Paulding was considered the BPA back then and even today there's nobody I regret passing up.

Yeah, Joe messed up twice by reaching for Maxiell (instead of taking David Lee) and then extending him to such a contract. Amir Johnson however has been the BPA. We'll see if Gortat changes that, but even then they have similar per36 numbers with Amir having a slight advantage.

In 2006 Joe's big blunder was not taking JJ Barea over Will Blalock. Boohoo.

I'd rather have Aaron Brooks on this team than Rodney Stuckey, but 11 spots later? I'd also like to have Wilson Chandler on this roster Only Marc Gasol is a clearly better player than Arron Afflalo, and I think Joe can be forgiven for not having a guy selected 20 spots later on his radar. Joe definitely did not fail with either of these selections (except for giving Afflalo away).

We're all mad about Walter Sharpe. Deron Washington was actually one of the BPAs, even factoring in undrafted players. It'd be nice to have Semih Erden on the team, I guess.

Jerebko was a win. Daye could be. In our current situation I'd rather have Lawson. I was pissed about not taking DeJuan Blair and still am. I wish we had kept Budinger.

Monroe was the BPA and nobody drafted after Terrico White is setting the world on fire.


Honestly, Joe hasn't done a truly bad job in the draft EXCEPT FOR 2001 and 2003.

Well, you don't want me to go back through most of those Drafts...

And it seems like you're saying "oh, well this quality player was drafted 20 spots later so you can't blame Joe for missing him"...

Of course you can blame the scouts and Joe for missing the guy - it's their job to find the best prospect... if they miss a stud then that's on them

But I've done this so many times... it's fucking depressing dude. David Lee and not Maxiell. Lawson and not Daye. Blair and not Summers. Chalmers and not Sharpe.

Bosh and not Darko... that's the big one... whatever dude - it's fucking pathetic

It does matter where a guy was projected. It also matters if a guy was the BPA.

Sometimes all you can ask your GM to do is to take the best guy in the tier of players he's looking at. Joe failed to do this with Darko. However, had he taken Wade, who was considered below the first tier of LeBron/Melo/Darko, everybody would have shit their pants. This also applies to Boozer.
At other times, you just hope that if you're drafting at x, you end up picking a top x player. Joe did do this with Stuckey. Say what you want about Lawson, but Joe came into the draft with the 15th pick and got a top 10 player. That pick really can't be blasted.

Except that Stuckey is awful at basketball.

Then that draft must have been horrible. Usually coming out with an all-rookie teamer is a good thing.

Stuckey is awful at PG, at passing to an open man, at being a starter and at not having seizures while on the bench.

He's pretty solid at the rest.

Oh, and at finishing and not getting blocked 3 times a game.

But the rest, aces!

I'm not trendy like y'all so I'll catch up to hating Stuckey in a few months.

Can we get back to this trade now?

Dude, this trade ain't happening...

Where a guy is projected has nothing to do with anything...

Scouts travel around watching all these fucking players.. they bring a bunch of cunts to workout... there are a bunch of pre-draft camps... teams spend so much money on finding the best player possible...

and everyone misses someone...

But Joe? He and his crew manage to miss all the fucking time!

If you go back pre-Stuckey and look at all the Drafts Joe made from 2000 you can see a laundry list of guys that we missed out on...

I'm only go do 2000 and 2001 cause it's so depressing but here we go again for the millionth time:

2000 = Mateen - apparently to appease the hometown fans since Joe expected Grant Hill to walk... that was a rumour. Other hometown guy available? Morris Peterson drafted 7 spots later and could have taken Hill's spot at SF from the jump!

I doubt Joe was worried about the hometown fans... he'd rather have the best player available because he knew better than most how crap we were... he played with our shitty team...

Better players than Mateen = everyone lol... Turkoglu, Des Mason, Quentin Richardson, Magloire, Peterson, DeShawn Stevenson... that's 6 guys... 5 of whome could have filled the SF role Hill was expected to vacate!

There are a couple of others like Jaric and Redd plus long term role players drafted that year....

Yet we got Mateen! Thank God we got Jon Barry and eventually Delfino for his ass... but it's still a pathetic draft pick especially when you look at who was available.

20001 = Rodney White was an abortion of a pick when you consider that Joe Johnson went next and Richard Jefferson, Troy Murphy, Zach Randolph and Brendan Haywood all went in the top 20. Then you have Gerald Wallace, Samuel Dalembert, Jamaal Tinsley and Tony Parker to consider too.

Arenas went in the second round before we picked Okur... but yeah - Okur was a great pick...

You can say Joe should not have taken some of those guys at 9... and I'll say he should have traded down and got another asset AND drafted a better player. That's 10 players that went on to pretty good careers.

Yet we got White

2 drafts... missed a lot of quality for 2 guys that sucked monkey spunk...

Is the point: every GM misses quality so it's not Joe's fault?

Or is the point: How come we miss so many fucking quality players?

It ain't like we miss 1 stud every draft - we miss 5 or 6 really good players and take shit!

It boggles my mind and pisses me off and makes me wonder WTF are our scouts thinking!

It boggles my mind and pisses me off and makes me wonder WTF are our scouts thinking!

“He’s going to own the game. Own the game. We’re going to have to build a new arena. The only thing that could destroy a kid like that is a woman.”
“Darko reminds me of a young Wilt Chamberlain. Wilt used to do a little of everything, and I haven’t seen a big man with so much skill since Wilt.”

Dude, this trade ain't happening...

Where a guy is projected has nothing to do with anything...

Scouts travel around watching all these fucking players.. they bring a bunch of cunts to workout... there are a bunch of pre-draft camps... teams spend so much money on finding the best player possible...

and everyone misses someone...

But Joe? He and his crew manage to miss all the fucking time!

If you go back pre-Stuckey and look at all the Drafts Joe made from 2000 you can see a laundry list of guys that we missed out on...

I'm only go do 2000 and 2001 cause it's so depressing but here we go again for the millionth time:

2000 = Mateen - apparently to appease the hometown fans since Joe expected Grant Hill to walk... that was a rumour. Other hometown guy available? Morris Peterson drafted 7 spots later and could have taken Hill's spot at SF from the jump!

I doubt Joe was worried about the hometown fans... he'd rather have the best player available because he knew better than most how crap we were... he played with our shitty team...

Better players than Mateen = everyone lol... Turkoglu, Des Mason, Quentin Richardson, Magloire, Peterson, DeShawn Stevenson... that's 6 guys... 5 of whome could have filled the SF role Hill was expected to vacate!

There are a couple of others like Jaric and Redd plus long term role players drafted that year....

Yet we got Mateen! Thank God we got Jon Barry and eventually Delfino for his ass... but it's still a pathetic draft pick especially when you look at who was available.

20001 = Rodney White was an abortion of a pick when you consider that Joe Johnson went next and Richard Jefferson, Troy Murphy, Zach Randolph and Brendan Haywood all went in the top 20. Then you have Gerald Wallace, Samuel Dalembert, Jamaal Tinsley and Tony Parker to consider too.

Arenas went in the second round before we picked Okur... but yeah - Okur was a great pick...

You can say Joe should not have taken some of those guys at 9... and I'll say he should have traded down and got another asset AND drafted a better player. That's 10 players that went on to pretty good careers.

Yet we got White

2 drafts... missed a lot of quality for 2 guys that sucked monkey spunk...

Is the point: every GM misses quality so it's not Joe's fault?

Or is the point: How come we miss so many fucking quality players?

It ain't like we miss 1 stud every draft - we miss 5 or 6 really good players and take shit!

It boggles my mind and pisses me off and makes me wonder WTF are our scouts thinking!
Those were his first two drafts.
As you said, he fixed the Mateen pick. He also made up for Rodney White by getting back two centers and a first-rounder.

Honestly, would any of those guys save for Turkoglu even be in our active rotation right now? Mason's out of the league, MoPete's about to follow him, Magloire's a minimum contract player, etc. I'd take DeShawn Stevenson but he'd be the fourth SG on our depth chart.

But you're right. The only time Joe's moved in the draft was to move down and take Walter Sharpe. I wish he'd move up, down, in, and out of the draft as the situation called for it. I've griped in the past about how we've failed to buy draft picks that would have drafted stud players that *I* coveted at the time of the draft. We've all been upset by a player we're targeting going right before our pick, too.

Fact is, given where he's picked and the lack of movement, he's been successful on the whole. We're not in our current situation because of a lack of young talent...

Dude, the point isn't if Hedo and those cats would be playing for us now... it's how we prep for the Draft and use our picks that bothers me...

See, I'm sure people read me ranting about Joe's poor draft record and think I expect him to hit a home run every time... That's fucking impossible in the Draft. There are so many players and so much hype and the college game is not the NBA...

The reason I always bring this shit up is because we miss a LOT of quality guys and it makes me question our scouts ability to do their fucking jobs!

It makes me wonder what we do exactly as a franchise to prep for the Draft? Is our system flawed? Are our scouts just useless?

And do we just follow what some other teams are doing or are we on the cutting edge of new technology and new thinking?

It's deeper than "Joe didn't pick so and so" - it's about the structure of the organisation and why one area is seriously fucked!