Honestly I just don't sense that its there. I really have a feeling if we pay him 8 mill per year we will regret it in the same season. Just no real forward development, and stats aside, I just don't see development since season 2. I would happily package him with Tmac (since we won't keep him likely anyway) and Maxiell to a contender for an expiring, a first, and a decent prospect.

I've been done with Stuckey since he literally collapsed last year.

I think he needs to be sent for a young big as soon as we can. Not sure who that is though.

Stuckey's development has been like watching someone try to start a lawnmower with a flooded engine. It's hard for me to imagine a great offer coming in for the combo of a pg who can't distribute and a sg with no jumper.

We need a PG and SG too. Not sure why everyone is hung up on getting another big.

We would've needed another big IF any of the guards on the team worked out. Rip will be gone, BG is so freakin hot and cold, Stuck isn't panning out.

Our young bigs have more promise than our guards. And a more experienced guy, at least CV scores. Wilcox, Monroe, CV, JJ has more promise for the future than Stuckey, BG, TMac and Rip. Rip and TMac won't be here next year.

God that is sad Tahoe.

Stuckey will not get anyone good in return. At best I would guess it could help us get rid of a smaller long term contract, and get a decent level first round pick (out of the lotto).

I think he can be successful in the right role - off the bench as a combo guard.

But if we're starting Gordon don't we need a big PG?

Or could we start Stuckey at SG and bring Gordon off the bench?

I honestly think that with a quality PG to actually run the offense we'd be so much better as a team. You see it when McGrady is on the floor. And that's just sad - McGrady is our best PG! And not only is he old as dirt but he won't be here next season.

Are there any big tall PGs available to play next to Gordon? Or, do they even exist?

now is the perfect time to test the Stuckey/Gordon backcourt for a bit longer, if it doesn't work you can still trade one of them...right now we don't have a better PG than Tmac, and he is not even a guard, we need a better option first, before we get rid of Stuckey

Joe Johnson (defends SGs)
Derrick Rose
Jason Kidd
Chauncey Billups
Arron Afflalo (defends SGs)
JR Smith
Baron Davis
Eric Gordon
Shannon Brown
OJ Mayo
Dwyane Wade
Mike Miller
John Salmons
etc.

Joe loves combo guards. I love real PGs. That said, if we were going to try and roll with a combo guard running the offense, I wouldn't mind Jamal Crawford. He'll be available, too.

Jamal Crawford for the MLE.

Are there any big tall PGs available to play next to Gordon? Or, do they even exist?

Kirk Hinrich? I hear his mom is hot.

Kirk Hinrich? I hear his mom is hot.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070513151031AATvfx5

We need to trade Stuckey and get whatever we can for him. In the off season, since he's a RFA, if we want him back we offer him a little more than the MLE. If he won't take that or his team matches, then he's too expensive anyways. I think he might be worth around $6 mil a season off the bench if we unload Bynum.

We need to trade Stuckey and get whatever we can for him. In the off season, since he's a RFA, if we want him back we offer him a little more than the MLE. If he won't take that or his team matches, then he's too expensive anyways. I think he might be worth around $6 mil a season off the bench if we unload Bynum.

If his team matches? We're his team!

We offer (very) slightly above the new MLE - and if his agent doesn't like it we'd tell his agent to go find a better deal.

I doubt his agent would find one due to the lockout and teams being worried about over spending on mid-level players. What kind of message does it send after the lockout if cunts like Stuckey get big money? Makes the owners look (more) like morons...

In the unlikely event that his agent can find a better deal AND Stuckey signs that offer sheet we'd have 15 days to either match it or tell him to go fuck himself.

It's our choice what we do with Stuckey since he's a RFA and we own his rights.

If his team matches? We're his team!

We offer (very) slightly above the new MLE - and if his agent doesn't like it we'd tell his agent to go find a better deal.

I doubt his agent would find one due to the lockout and teams being worried about over spending on mid-level players. What kind of message does it send after the lockout if cunts like Stuckey get big money? Makes the owners look (more) like morons...

In the unlikely event that his agent can find a better deal AND Stuckey signs that offer sheet we'd have 15 days to either match it or tell him to go fuck himself.

It's our choice what we do with Stuckey since he's a RFA and we own his rights.

Pharoh. If you look at my posy it begins with trading Stuckey which would make "his team" whatever team we traded him too. In other words, get value for him in a trade and then try to bring him back at a reasonable amount. If he wants too much or his team matches, at least we got some value for him instead of letting him walk for nothing.

If we trade him you can sure as fucking shit bet that we aren't going to make a bid on him as a RFA from another team. I'm gonna presume that the team giving up the asset for him has the intention of keeping him, since they too know he is a FA and could just make an offer this off season.

I want to keep Stuckey. Let's have A draft pick not named prince work out for once. Figure out what position you want him to play with a new coach and new system but he is a keeper for eight million.

I'll take a do-over (a 1st) for Stuck, especially instead of paying him 8-9m a year for the next 5 years.

If we trade him you can sure as fucking shit bet that we aren't going to make a bid on him as a RFA from another team. I'm gonna presume that the team giving up the asset for him has the intention of keeping him, since they too know he is a FA and could just make an offer this off season.

Who knows what the team giving up the asset will do? it would depend on what the asset is, what the team's cap is like in the off season, what we offer him, what happens with the CBA, and if that team is picking him up as a rental for the playoffs. Stuckey can play both guard spots, has size, and is aggressive. I just fear that another team offers him more than we want to pay and we lose him for nothing. Since he isn't really our PG of the future and we already have a glut of SG's, i'd like to see us get something of value for him.

I know that unless their GM dies in a plane crash no team is giving anything up to get a RFA then let us give him a rational offer and be like "well, didn't see that coming, someone else offering him a deal. Guess we're fucked. Off ya go little buddy, sucks we gave something up". And if they want a rental they'll get a vet. RFA rights are worth something, they won't pay for those in order not to have them.

Now, if you want to deal him so we'll have decent cap space next year go for it. But don't plan on seeing him on this roster again.

I think he can be successful in the right role - off the bench as a combo guard.

But if we're starting Gordon don't we need a big PG?

Or could we start Stuckey at SG and bring Gordon off the bench?

I honestly think that with a quality PG to actually run the offense we'd be so much better as a team. You see it when McGrady is on the floor. And that's just sad - McGrady is our best PG! And not only is he old as dirt but he won't be here next season.

It says something about the lack of a PG here when someone who was basically considered out of the league a year ago, no one would give him a contract, considered a sf(?), is producing the way he is here.

Also, has Stuckey improved since last year? Has his PG skills improved? Did his distribution skills improve? Did he improve his outside jumper? Going to the rim?

I don't think so.

McGrady is only 31, I could see us giving him 3 years/15. I imagine he'd go for that, i kind of think he might have only come here after hearing about Abdenour from G Hill back in the day.

Not endorsing it necessarily but I could see that scenario happening. Wouldn't be the worst thing that ever happened.

We don't have any sort of rights on Mcgrady do we? We would have to use the mle

McGrady is only 31, I could see us giving him 3 years/15. I imagine he'd go for that, i kind of think he might have only come here after hearing about Abdenour from G Hill back in the day.

Not endorsing it necessarily but I could see that scenario happening. Wouldn't be the worst thing that ever happened.

He may be 31, but his legs are older. And no, we have no rights over him.

Definitely put me in the "I'm over Stuckey" camp. PG skills aren't going to magically develop. He still isn't a good shooter or defender. He can get to the rack, but still isn't particularly efficient once he gets there. I kept hoping he'd develop that tear drop shot ala Tony Parker, but it never actually materialized. His only asset is his size and strength, and we simply haven't seen the skills needed to utilize that.

In short, all of the things that worried me about the kid when we drafted him remain absolutely true. This is his third season of 30+ mpg. How much time was he supposed to need? I don't see much of an argument to be made here to be honest. I'll be rather upset if he ever gets a large contract from the Pistons, to say the least.

How is anybody on the backcourt supposed to develop when their roles and minutes and opportunities change every week?

How is anybody on the backcourt supposed to develop when their roles and minutes and opportunities change every week?

Developing is one thing but after two plus seasons it has become quite apparent that Stuckey just doesn't have the proper point guard skill/instincts. Like I have said all along, he is a SG that can play limited minutes at the point.

I still disagree.
When has he had a competent head coach?

McGrady is only 31, I could see us giving him 3 years/15. I imagine he'd go for that, i kind of think he might have only come here after hearing about Abdenour from G Hill back in the day.

Not endorsing it necessarily but I could see that scenario happening. Wouldn't be the worst thing that ever happened.

He may only be 31, Vinny, but his legs are older.

How old are Vinny's legs, though?

He may only be 31, Vinny, but his legs are older.

Great point Tahoe.

TMac's got legs, he knows how to use them.

tmac has a leg?

Two of them..

According to RealGM's Reina Value, Stuckey deserves 7.4 million a year.
(fuck realgm)

I will cry if we pay him that.

I've seen estimates in the $8-9m range all over.

Dumars will pay market value or more for Stuckey, he always does, he never lowballed anyone...8-9 could be right

Stuckey starting SG for 8-9 mil = OK, paying Ben Gordon 58 mil as his backup = not OK
still we need a starting PG

Stuckey is and always will be a SG that can handle playing PG for a small amount of time. He is not a PG, nver fucking was one.

And his recent performancs just make that all the more obvious...

3 out of his last 5 games he's shot over 54% - Rodney fucking Stuckey! Had 11 turnovers during those 5 games - near 2 per game is OK, IMO.

Pity most of us knew he was a SG when he was drafted or at least after his watching for for a sason and a half.

Why Joe and the organisation persisted for this long is beyond me. Stuckey + BG + Real PG = damn good combination...

I wish there was a way to pry Ricky Rubio from Minnesota.
Wilcox and our 2011 first +cash for Rubio?

Stuckey is and always will be a SG that can handle playing PG for a small amount of time. He is not a PG, nver fucking was one.

And his recent performancs just make that all the more obvious...

3 out of his last 5 games he's shot over 54% - Rodney fucking Stuckey! Had 11 turnovers during those 5 games - near 2 per game is OK, IMO.

Pity most of us knew he was a SG when he was drafted or at least after his watching for for a sason and a half.

Why Joe and the organisation persisted for this long is beyond me. Stuckey + BG + Real PG = damn good combination...

I still think the Pistons need to try and take Harris instead of Murphy in that deal. Denver wants Lawson starting anyway.

How has Harris been playing? I have to convince myself to watch our games - NJ got no hope of me searching for their shitty performances.

The issue we'd have with Stuckey/BG/PG is that the PG not only needs to be able to actually run the show but he'd also need to be able to hit a long jumper (spacing for when he plays with Stuckey) and possibly be big enough to defend SG's (when he plays with BG)

There are guys out there at 6'3" or so that we could get and just take a hit defensively if we had to. But until we actually have someone here to run the show long term (McGrady ain't it) I believe we'll struggl to become much of anything as a team.

And for the record I'm a big fan of Bynum - IF we somehow got a real PG to complete the trinity I'd still play Bynum some. He's perfect as a change of pace guard IMO. With BG, Nova and Daye also on the bench (starters = C, Monroe, Jerebko, Stuckey, PG) we'd have a nice 9 man rotation with every position covered.

C: FA or via trade + Monroe
F: Monroe + Nova + Jerebko + Day (if we're fucked lol)
F: Jerebko + Daye + Nova + Stuckey (if we're fucked)
G: Stuckey + BG + PG (if he big enough)
G: FA or via trade + Bynum + Stuckey

Real candidates:
Shaun Livingston-LOVE HIM
Beno Udrih
Shannon Brown-seriously, he's not a true PG, but he can finish at the rim and shoot 3's at a 41% clip. Would love to get a hometown kid back.
OJ Mayo-altercation with Tony Allen, natural shooter.
Goran Dragic
Andre Miller-but would prefer somebody much younger
Kirk Hinrich

Here's a deal that gets us Shaun Livingston. I'm not sure how picks would work, because we take on their worst contracts in exchange for Hamilton and Maxiell.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4bv53aw
McGrady/Livingston
Stuckey/Gordon/White
Daye/Jerebko/Carroll
Monroe/Villanueva/Najera
Wallace/Wilcox/Mohammed/Diop

I liked the idea of Dre Miller about 3 years ago, but by the time we're good again and Miami's out of the way, he'll be stealing a paycheck.

I don't think Dre is the answer here either.

Hinrich? How did he go with BG in Chi-Town? Were they buddies? Productive? He's certainly the type of guard we could use...

Is it time to revisit that Thabeet/Mayo trade idea? But Mayo is not a legit PG so it doesn't really help the situation... unless you believe that Mayo can be a legit PG and run shit.

I haven't really been paying attention to what Livingston's doing. Arnie would help him, I'm sure.

I don't think Dre is the answer here either.

Hinrich? How did he go with BG in Chi-Town? Were they buddies? Productive? He's certainly the type of guard we could use...

Is it time to revisit that Thabeet/Mayo trade idea? But Mayo is not a legit PG so it doesn't really help the situation... unless you believe that Mayo can be a legit PG and run shit.
Hinrich and Gordon were sick together.
Hinrich/Gordon/Crawford is essentially Hinrich/Gordon/Stuckey, and their version was making the playoffs.

Hinrich and Gordon were sick together.
Hinrich/Gordon/Crawford is essentially Hinrich/Gordon/Stuckey, and their version was making the playoffs.

I don't think we should aim to recreate what failed elsewhere.

The Bulls would've prospered sooner had they drafted Aldridge, who would've been what Boozer is now.

Yeah, they had to deal with Eddy Curry's and Tyson Chandler's underachieving asses.

Would Minny be interested in Stuckey for Rubio? I haven't heard much about Rubio since the draft, how unbalanced would that deal be?

If we got rubio I would want to keep Stuckey and Gordon

What is Rubio's value right now? I doubt we have anybody besides Stuckey that they'd want anyway (maybe Monroe, but we need to keep him).

I suspect he'll go to a big market. What are the chances on getting in on a 3 way deal with the Nets? Rubio to NJ, Harris here. Not sure what we'd send out (would NJ want a player like RIP without Melo?)

yeah we need to keep Monroe

I'd trade our lottery pick for him? and bynum lol

Two future firsts?

oour current lotto pick is likely going to be lower than the five they drafted rubio with

I know... :(

But I would so do two future firsts.

Rubio/Stuckey
Gordon/stuckey
Daye/mle
Jerebko/villanueva
Monroe/2011

What about something like this (Flynn is really Rubio because he doesn't show up in trade machine):

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=47dgycb

Twolves get future first(s) from us.

Does NJ value RIP/Rubio more than Harris/Morrow?

Could make it a 4 team (cause I can) with the two picks to Denver:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4mxn2tg

NJ: Harris, Morrow, Favors, 2 firsts for Melo, Rubio, RIP
-NJ gets young flashy PG to run with Melo and RIP
Det: RIP, future first for Harris
-Det gets true PG
Min: Rubio for Morrow, Det future first
-Min gets SG for PG (Flynn and Ridinour playing well at PG) and a future pick to even it
Den: Melo for Favors, Murphy, 2 NJ firsts
-Den gets what they need for Melo

What about something like this (Flynn is really Rubio because he doesn't show up in trade machine):

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=47dgycb

Twolves get future first(s) from us.

Does NJ value RIP/Rubio more than Harris/Morrow?

Could make it a 4 team (cause I can) with the two picks to Denver:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4mxn2tg

NJ: Harris, Morrow, Favors, 2 firsts for Melo, Rubio, RIP
-NJ gets young flashy PG to run with Melo and RIP
Det: RIP, future first for Harris
-Det gets true PG
Min: Rubio for Morrow, Det future first
-Min gets SG for PG (Flynn and Ridinour playing well at PG) and a future pick to even it
Den: Melo for Favors, Murphy, 2 NJ firsts
-Den gets what they need for Melo

Harris doesn't have a great contract either and isn't worth Rip AND two future firsts. I think Rip will end up going somewhere for an expiring and we keep our picks.

Yeah, whoa, Harris is way overvalued there.

I'm all for keeping Stuckey as a combo guard.

Stuckey/PG
Gordon/Stuckey

or

PG/Stuckey
Gordon/Stuckey

or

PG/Stuckey
Stuckey/Gordon

Whatever. Keep him. There are true PGs out there to be had.

and I'm telling you, two future firsts should be enough to grab Rubio from them. They get the 2012 first ,who knows if it's a lottery pick or not, but it'll feature effectively two years of early entry candidates since not many will want to declare in 2011.
Or, if we're certain that we're going to lose Tayshaun anyway, they can absorb his/Wilcox's contracts and win a few extra games.

FWIW here are Rubio's numbers for this year:

http://www.acb.com/stsacum.php?cod_competicion=LACB&cod_edicion=55&cod_equipo=BAR&totales=0

It's in Spanish but it's pretty straight-forward.

Homeboy's not a shooter, but he's a hell of a distributor.

Harris doesn't have a great contract either and isn't worth Rip AND two future firsts. I think Rip will end up going somewhere for an expiring and we keep our picks.

As you can see I modified the deal to one future first in the 4 way. Also that can be a protected first anyway. Harris doesn't have a horrible deal. Same years as RIP and 3-4 mil less a year. He's much more productive too.

Well, it's not difficult to be more bang for the buck than Rip.
To me the guy is a poor man's Tony Parker.

Well, PG's and centers always make more because there are the hardest to find.

Honestly, with the way PGs are flying into the league right now, I'm not keen to really overpaying mine.