T&P to the victims and their families.

And, of course, it has turned political so a thread is in order.

No discussion. Has this board lost its political balls?

I can easily understand why people could easily envision Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck whispering sweet nothings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gr%C3%ADma_Wormtongue) into gunman's ear. When they spend every day spouting crazy talk, their names naturally come up when crazy shit happens.

Of course there's a big difference between making that connection in your head and going on a soapbox saying it's so with no facts. A lot of people did that within hours of the shootings and ended up looking like jackasses.

I think Palin should have apologized for her website with targets and "reloading" comments. I don't think she should take blame (that guy was nuts) but she should acknowledge that they should refrain from that type of talk (because crazies will take it literally) instead of blowing it off and saying the media is spinning things.

It's pretty amazing how quickly these things become politicized. They said that dipshit sheriff was talking his nonsense before the bodies were taken away. Incredible. Especially spouting stuff he had no facts on...just his political opinion.

Also, wondering why Palin gets brought up but not the Dems map with targets on it, or Kos 'targeting' Giffords cuz she 'sold out the constitution' or something.

Also x2, I tweeted that I'd like to give the shooter a beatin, but he's obviously so deranged. He's mentally ill and my tweet was wrong. I shouldn't have tweeted that.

Politicize it? The attempted assassination of a politician is an inherently political act.

^ True as long as we discuss it as coming from a completely crazy person. The Sheriff jumped in and tried to make political points and pointed fingers at the party he does not support. Thats whats so despicable, imo.

It's pretty amazing how quickly these things become politicized. They said that dipshit sheriff was talking his nonsense before the bodies were taken away. Incredible. Especially spouting stuff he had no facts on...just his political opinion.

Also, wondering why Palin gets brought up but not the Dems map with targets on it, or Kos 'targeting' Giffords cuz she 'sold out the constitution' or something.

Also x2, I tweeted that I'd like to give the shooter a beatin, but he's obviously so deranged. He's mentally ill and my tweet was wrong. I shouldn't have tweeted that.

I have seen this brought up about 1,000 times, and have heard Republican friends complain that it's not being brought up about 3,000.

Well, when you have peeps saying 'they are the reason for the murders' and not even bringing up their own map...

^ 3001

Personally I find quite a bit of Republican rhetoric textbook fascist (I say this as opposed to just calling them Nazis which they are not) and purposefully violent. It's unhealthy. And Gee has hit the nail on the head about whether this is political.

However there's a huge leap from that and just blaming anyone for one person taking a gun (for whatever reason) and killing human beings. If you throw out that accusation, you had best make sure it really fits and that was not done at all here.

I agreed with Gee about his 'of course its political' but the more I think of it and the more I hear about this mentally ill person, I don't agree that it was political, just cuz a politician was shot.

Its about her not being able to answer his screwed up question. He could have just as easily shot his classmate for them not answering his question.

So my point was the Democrat Sheriff politicized this thing and instead of condemning him, they make him out to be a hero. Incredible really.

Personally I find quite a bit of Republican rhetoric textbook fascist (I say this as opposed to just calling them Nazis which they are not) and purposefully violent. It's unhealthy. And Gee has hit the nail on the head about whether this is political.

However there's a huge leap from that and just blaming anyone for one person taking a gun (for whatever reason) and killing human beings. If you throw out that accusation, you had best make sure it really fits and that was not done at all here.

Also, feel free to post the rhetoric you mentioned. And was that rhetoric to blame for the shooting?

Not at all. I was hoping that got across with the second part of my post.

Gotcha. But you said purposefully violent. Just checkin.

Its funny though, I think it was Clyburn or something that said the Repubs calling Obama a facist is the type of thing that leads to violence.

I think lableing someone as a fascist can be wrong and hard to really demonstrate. I do think that a lot of rhetoric and practices both in the Republican party and, to be hoenst, in general in the US, borders on some basic fascist stuff. I'm not trying to call anyone in general a fascist (it's like that video someone once posted about being racist versus what you said was racist) but I think a lot of what is said is.

I think Republicans purposefully use violent language. Palin is a good example. However I don't think she's calling out for violent action; she's trying to use violent/military/hunting language to hit hot buttons with her target audience (see, I'm even using the word target). I don't like the language, but it's not something that can be tied to what happened in AZ IMO.

I figured Palin would get named, when she did nothing, but to me its peeps like the Sheriff and Krugman that are despicable. When we should be talking about what we can do for the menatally ill in this country to help reduce tragedies like this, they do what seems to be their mo, blame the right.

Instead an opportunity was lost so they could do what they do best, jump on the right when something like this happens. Really inappropriate.

And then there's this... Rep Paul Kanjorski D said of Florida Republican Scott who was running for Gov....

"Instead of running for governor of Florida, they ought to have him and shoot him. Put him against the wall and shoot him"

So Palin might say 'reload' which is used a bunch of different ways, but the above is pretty clear.

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/7/2011/01/500x_rush.jpg

Billboard (http://gawker.com/5732700/rush-limbaughs-tucson-billboard-is-just-perfect) in Tuscon, AZ. LOL.

And then there's this... Rep Paul Kanjorski D said of Florida Republican Scott who was running for Gov....

"Instead of running for governor of Florida, they ought to have him and shoot him. Put him against the wall and shoot him"

So Palin might say 'reload' which is used a bunch of different ways, but the above is pretty clear.

I wish peeps who prolly never even talked to her would stop calling her Gabby like they've known her since foreverago.

Someone said today that a congressperson hasn't really been assassinated for quite a while. RFK was killed by a Sirhan Sirhan, but he was running for Prez. Ryan (?) was shot in Jonestown...forgot where that is. So you have to back to 1934 where, I think, it was a Cong person killed. I don't think a bunch of added security is needed.

Will added security do enough good to justify the expense? We're talking political positions that are inherently "press the flesh". The only way you get a quantum leap in security in such contexts would be at odds with reelection prospects.

I don't care about what's in the Constitution, I don't care what rights people think they have, I care about what's practical. And it's not practical to let dangerously deranged people walk around free to do what they want.

Our whole society is hopelessly outdated and unequipped to deal with the problems of the 21st century. This guy is obviously somewhat schizophrenic, probably undiagnosed, and definitely not being treated for it. And yet he was able to buy a gun and make multiple visits to WalMart to buy ammo when he wasn't scribbling his insanity on the Internet where everyone could have read it. I know people like to be left alone and all, but that is just not practical in an era where very powerful technologies are available to any kook who wants them.

Look at this guy. He definitely could not have sustained a rational train of thought long enough to explain how a gun works. And yet he was able to go and buy one and use it. I think about that and I think about the old nukes that were smuggled out of the USSR and are now probably in the hands of people who would kill their daughters out of shame if they were raped. There is MIT-level technology available to just about every shithead with a 2nd-grade education right now and that scares the bejeezus out of me. If I take anything away from this incident, it's that. Not the "civility" thing. We have a neverending ability to focus on exactly the most ridiculous response to any problem.

And can I just say, the 24-hour news cycle has become unbelievably creepy the last few weeks. "UPDATE: SHE MOVED HER FINGER EVERYONE!"

I don't care about what's in the Constitution, I don't care what rights people think they have, I care about what's practical. And it's not practical to let dangerously deranged people walk around free to do what they want.


We have a neverending ability to focus on exactly the most ridiculous response to any problem.

Dots.

I don't care about what's in the Constitution, I don't care what rights people think they have, I care about what's practical. And it's not practical to let dangerously deranged people walk around free to do what they want.

C'mon man. You don't care what's in the Constitution? I think you do.

Our whole society is hopelessly outdated and unequipped to deal with the problems of the 21st century. This guy is obviously somewhat schizophrenic, probably undiagnosed, and definitely not being treated for it. And yet he was able to buy a gun and make multiple visits to WalMart to buy ammo when he wasn't scribbling his insanity on the Internet where everyone could have read it. I know people like to be left alone and all, but that is just not practical in an era where very powerful technologies are available to any kook who wants them.

And if he was diagnosed, he wouldn't have been able to get a gun, afaict. Its hard to say he fell through the cracks cuz that dumbass sheriff knew about this, his college, prof, classmates, mom and dad, etc. We don't need tougher gun laws.

Look at this guy. He definitely could not have sustained a rational train of thought long enough to explain how a gun works. And yet he was able to go and buy one and use it. I think about that and I think about the old nukes that were smuggled out of the USSR and are now probably in the hands of people who would kill their daughters out of shame if they were raped. There is MIT-level technology available to just about every shithead with a 2nd-grade education right now and that scares the bejeezus out of me. If I take anything away from this incident, it's that. Not the "civility" thing. We have a neverending ability to focus on exactly the most ridiculous response to any problem.

I know he bought some ammo after a failed first attempt, but did he just buy the gun too? Not sure about that.

And can I just say, the 24-hour news cycle has become unbelievably creepy the last few weeks. "UPDATE: SHE MOVED HER FINGER EVERYONE!"

Agree

* I really don't care about the Constitution anymore. It's more of a burden these days than a help. And yes, I really do think that. It's so clunky and hard to update that it has totally jammed up the political process. The parts of it that are inconvenient to the people with power (4th Amendment, for example) are just ignored by the judiciary. It's safe to say that as an average American, the Constitution doesn't exist for you unless it's applied to your disadvantage. The fact that each state is responsible for drawing its own Congressional districts at will is just nuts, the Electoral College is stupid, the makeup of the Senate is fundamentally undemocratic, the fact that there are no solid rules on the limits of Congressional money power is untenable, the organization of Congressional committees prevents effective laws from being written, the responsibilities of Congress are poorly defined, the power of the Presidency is way too large to make sense, the judiciary is totally powerless against manipulation by the Executive, it just goes on and on.

* I'm not saying we need tougher gun laws. I'm saying that maybe we need to make it SLIGHTLY easier to commit someone against their will to a mental hospital. Right now if you are an adult outside of the legal system, or if you are a minor and your parents don't want you committed, it's pretty much impossible to get committed against your will. It shouldn't be impossible.

* Yeah, he bought the gun. He was obsessed with police-issue Glocks for a few months before he decided to finally get one.

* When we at WTF talk about the possibility of Les Miles coming to UM, it's a springboard for us to talk about things like the pay scale of college coaches, or effective clock management, or different kinds of defense formations, or the advantages and disadvantages of a pro-style offense. It's about the ideas. Below-average people talk about people. Average people talk about events. Above-average people talk about ideas. I don't need to hear every single simpering detail of Jeffords' recovery as if she was some kind of irreplaceable savior.

Vote Swami in 2012!

I don't care about what's in the Constitution, I don't care what rights people think they have, I care about what's practical. And it's not practical to let dangerously deranged people walk around free to do what they want.
Even if they hold elected office?


Our whole society is hopelessly outdated and unequipped to deal with the problems of the 21st century.
This is more like a 20th century problem. While it's almost certainly the case that laws will lag behind technology, the fact is that they often lag _far_ behind technology. The people who benefit from antiquated law usually benefit in some way where it makes imposing new law untenable. There's sections of the Constitution that just don't make sense in the light of current technology.


Look at this guy. He definitely could not have sustained a rational train of thought long enough to explain how a gun works. And yet he was able to go and buy one and use it.
The same goes for cars.

I've been looking and can't find where he bought the gun, just he ammo.

As annoying as the coverage has been, it is really amazing that she (Giffords) is going from being declared dead to being released from the hospital this Friday.






GOD BLESS OUR GABBY

Also strange to hear her husband talk about how she always feared being shot at a public event.

As annoying as the coverage has been, it is really amazing that she (Giffords) is going from being declared dead to being released from the hospital this Friday.






GOD BLESS OUR GABBY

She ours not yours.

She ours not yours.

:we:

Yes, the media coverage is a little tedious but still, surviving a bullet through the brain is pretty noteworthy and impressive.

Future assassins would do well to follow the rules. (http://www.zombielandrules.com/zombieland-rule-2-double-tap/) (too soon?)

Gabby didn't vote for Nanci, iirc, so she's 'ours'.

Gabby was the name of the girl that crushed on me in 1st grade. She's mine.

Sheriff Dipstick still doing interviews, afaict.

It looks like Democrat Sheriff Dipstick has been shut up by the DA's office.

http://michellemalkin.cachefly.net/michellemalkin.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/pima.jpg

Wow -- what a pissy response. Having said that, I still think he's better than Arpaio in Maricopa County (who has pissed off multiple family members of mine who don't normally agree with each other on much of anything else):

http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/tapped_archive?month=01&year=2011&base_name=what_part_of_law_and_order_don

It's safe to say this is no longer a matter for the Mayberry P.D. to be talking about anyway.

They just cut out of Price Is Right to show her ambulance taking off.

They made it all intense when they cut out, I thought they were going to say someone nuked New York or something.

They just cut out of Price Is Right to show her ambulance taking off.

They made it all intense when they cut out, I thought they were going to say someone nuked New York or something.

MOTHERFUKKERS

Wait... Bob Barker had sex with Gabby too?

And nothing about the rest of the victims cuz the other victims don't help the liberal medias agenda.
okthatsalilmean...butrue