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Glenn
02-05-2010, 02:04 PM
Some interesting stuff to chew on here.


Pistons in dire need of rebuilding broken franchise

By Ken Berger
CBSSports.com Senior Writer

EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. -- Richard Hamilton was sitting in the corner of the visiting locker room in New Jersey; the only more desolate place in the NBA is the home locker room down the hall. He was speaking in general terms about the Pistons needing to "get the chemistry better," a euphemism for a basketball team that is broken.

The Pistons' chemistry experiment is 15 months in the making, and the toxic stew that was cooked up when Chauncey Billups was traded to Denver in 2008 still isn't any more palatable. The Pistons' opponent Tuesday night, the historically inept Nets, could be on their way to the worst record in NBA history. But at least the Nets have cap space, and next year, and the hope -- however faint -- that the deliberate demolition of their franchise could give them the tools they need to build it back up.

The Pistons? They're still caught between eras. Tugging on one end of the rope is the old guard, the holdovers from the glory days -- Hamilton, Tayshaun Prince and even Ben Wallace minus the Afro and the vertical leap. Pulling on the other end are the free-agent stop-gaps, Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva, who were quickly lavished with the cap space cleared in the Billups-for-Allen Iverson deal. Stuck in the middle are the players who represent the future, in the form of Rodney Stuckey and 2009 draft picks DaJuan Summers and Austin Daye.

Thanks to injuries -- on Tuesday night, the Pistons (16-31) had their full complement of players for only the third time this season -- the idea of returning quickly to contention has backfired. With the Feb. 18 trade deadline barely two weeks away, team president Joe Dumars has reached another crossroads. But at this point, there's really only one direction that makes sense.

Despite lip service in the locker room Tuesday night after the Pistons scraped together a 97-93 victory over the 4-43 Nets, there's little reason to believe this team is capable of mounting anything resembling a push for the eighth playoff spot in the East. That is the spot their rivals used to dread, because it meant a first-round exit at the hands of the cocky and surgically effective Pistons of old. The Pistons have fallen so far, so fast, that they can't even aspire to being the first-round sparring partner for the Cavs on their way to the conference finals and beyond.

Dumars knew this would be a transition year, but not like this. Now, he must finish the job he started when he traded Billups.

Hamilton and Prince didn't elaborate on the improvement in chemistry that is required, but you don't have to be a psychologist to figure it out. Take the lingering bitterness over the Billups trade, combine it with three coaches in three seasons, and lather it all up with losing and you have a team that one person close to the situation said is "in need of serious change."

The way the veteran core of Hamilton, Prince, Billups and Rasheed Wallace ran roughshod over Flip Saunders at the end of his tenure has come full circle. After a dismal year under the inexperienced, but no-nonsense Michael Curry, the Pistons have another pushover in the lead chair on the bench. Old habits have returned under first-year coach John Kuester, whose vision for the future is being clouded by the faces of the past.

There's a growing feeling in the locker room that Kuester isn't holding the veterans on the team accountable, and that he's "too soft," said a person with direct knowledge of locker room conversations.

"Once Joe traded Chauncey, that was sort of the tipping point for all that stuff," the person said. "There is this old-guard mentality there, and it holds them back."

Finally at full strength, the Pistons as currently constructed have two weeks to choose a direction before the cord will be cut with the past. Prince's value isn't nearly what it was three years ago, when Dumars passed on the chance to send him to Charlotte; the Bobcats wound up acquiring Jason Richardson from Golden State instead. But Prince's notorious defensive skills, playoff experience, and length would be useful to any number of contenders. He's also a few weeks shy of 30, and has one year left on his contract at $11.3 million.

"It's not my say where this team is going," Prince said. "I'm not the GM of this team. I don't know where it's going. He makes the decisions. Obviously, we've got a younger team now. We're in a situation where we've got to find the right chemistry between these guys. But when you've played three games this season with everybody healthy, what can you say? It's unfortunate that it's going the way it's going this year with the transitions and adjustments that we've made with the team."

Prince would be good in the East or the West. He can defend Rajon Rondo or Paul Pierce, Billups or Carmelo Anthony. One deal that would make sense would have Prince going to Utah for Carlos Boozer, who would bring the low-post presence the Pistons so desperately need to complement Stuckey's perimeter game. The salary difference this year is small enough to still work under league trade guidelines, yet big enough to put the Jazz within about $100,000 of the tax line. If Utah could make another deal to get under, the combination would provide about a $7 million swing -- the difference between being a tax payer and recipient. After the season, the Pistons would sign Boozer, whose $12.7 million deal expires June 30, and the Jazz would have an asset to peddle in Prince's $11.3 million expiring deal.

Given coach Jerry Sloan's preference to keep Boozer -- and the Jazz's improved play of late -- they could simply hang onto him, pay luxury tax this year, and head into next season knowing they'll be tax-free.

Trading Hamilton is much more problematic. The extension he signed in 2008 -- believing, at the time, that Billups would remain with the team -- has three years and $38 million remaining. That's too much cheddar for all but two or three teams to take on in this trying economic environment. Of the teams in a position to take on that kind of contract, the best fits for Hamilton's skills would seem to be Dallas, which is eager to trade Josh Howard, and Boston, which has been scoping out landing spots for Ray Allen's $19.7 million expiring contract.

The Pistons almost certainly will do something, because they can't go on like this. They are the ultimate proof that you can either be in contending mode or teardown mode; you can't do both. There's talent, assets in the form of two second-round picks in 2011, and the potential for one impactful signing next summer if Prince or Hamilton can be moved. There are also plenty of impediments.

Karen Davidson, widow of late Pistons owner William Davidson, confirmed last month that the team is for sale. A prospective owner might favor clean financial books over promising basketball talent. Such an owner also would not necessarily be loyal to the Dumars regime, which produced six consecutive conference titles and one NBA title but nothing much since.

"We're gonna make a run; we're gonna make a push," Prince was saying in the visiting locker room in New Jersey, the second most dismal place in the sport on Tuesday night. "We've got to figure out how to play a 48-minute game."

Yes, with a different mix of players that almost certainly won't include him. It's time to break up the Pistons -- again.

Joe Asberry
02-05-2010, 02:30 PM
good article, wouldn't it be nice to get both talent & expiring contracts back for Tay& Rip -> Boozer/Howard

Hermy
02-05-2010, 02:32 PM
meh.

Vinny
02-05-2010, 03:15 PM
"Too Much Cheddar"

geerussell
02-05-2010, 03:52 PM
"Too Much Cheddar"

LOL, that jumped out at me too. He aimed for ballin' and landed squarely on dad type.

Pharaoh
02-06-2010, 08:55 AM
I'd be happy with a Prince/Howard + first rounder trade at this point.
I still hold out hope that Joe can net us the big man we need and turn this whole thing around.

Imagine if he got Jefferson or Amare by dealing Tay and non-rotation players (Daye, Summers, Kwame, Picks)?

People would bow at his feet.

And a package of Tayshaun, Daye, Kwame and our 2010 Pick must look pretty fucking attractive to a lot of teams.

darkobetterthanmelo
02-06-2010, 11:03 AM
I'd be happy with a Prince/Howard + first rounder trade at this point.
I still hold out hope that Joe can net us the big man we need and turn this whole thing around.

Imagine if he got Jefferson or Amare by dealing Tay and non-rotation players (Daye, Summers, Kwame, Picks)?

People would bow at his feet.

And a package of Tayshaun, Daye, Kwame and our 2010 Pick must look pretty fucking attractive to a lot of teams.

Agreed. Especially with Minnesota having Love play the same position as Jefferson, and Phoenix looking to dump $$$

Pharaoh
02-07-2010, 07:35 AM
I seriously don't know how we don't make a major move.

With Boston in the situation they're in (Ray Allen for Rip/Tay and Daye?)

With Cleveland wanting "something more" for their playoff drive (Tay?)

With Dallas looking for scorer to compliment Dirk (Rip?)

With Golden State looking to trade everyone

With Houston able to move McGrady and get some talent

With Indiana wanting to move Murphy

With the Clippers able to move Camby

With Minnesota open to offers for Jefferson

With Memphis looking for help for the playoffs

With Philly trying to move Dalembert and/or Brand

With Phoenix open to offers for Amare

With Portland looking to move some expirings

With Sacramento wanting to move Nocioni and Thomas

With San Antonio on the brink of death

With Utah possibly considering moving Boozer

With Washington's whole team up for grabs

We should be able to do something, UNLESS ownership has stated that it's a no go right now and Joe is to hold off on all trades until a sale is DONE!

If that directive has been given then Joe should say so, otherwise he's gonna look like a chump if the deadline passes and he stood pat.

Hermy
02-07-2010, 09:08 AM
I love how all those teams want to make all those moves, 1 or 2 of them will go down, and we'll be the chumps when this season is already over for us.

We'd might as well wait until the offseason. What's the advantage of us moving now vs. then?

DrRay11
02-07-2010, 09:59 AM
tmb;dr

Pharaoh
02-07-2010, 08:19 PM
I love how all those teams want to make all those moves, 1 or 2 of them will go down, and we'll be the chumps when this season is already over for us.

We'd might as well wait until the offseason. What's the advantage of us moving now vs. then?

Yeah, I was over-stating it that Joe would look like a chump but fuck - this team is in dire need of something.

The advantage of dealing now is that it changes the team, hopefully in a good way. Right now it seems we're coasting along and are content with being pathetic.

Fuck that. A move of any kind would/could send a message that Joe isn't happy and shit has to change. Maybe some guys take note and work a little harder, maybe they don't. But if we stand pat ain't no one gonna get any kind of message from that except "Sit back, relax and wait til the off-season".

I don't wanna breed that kind of shit.

Another advantage of dealing now - we have a $4 million expiring contract on the books that simply won't be there in the off-season. Surely Kwame's deal is attractive for many teams. What we could get for him alone is unknown, but he has got to be for sale.

And no offense dude - but are you certain only 1 or 2 deals will go down?

With half the teams in the league "looking to do something" surely more than 1 or 2 trades happen?

Pharaoh
02-07-2010, 08:38 PM
tmb;dr

too m.... b.... didn't read.

I get the tl;dr a lot

Never seen tmb;dr

Pharaoh
02-07-2010, 08:42 PM
too m.... b.... didn't read.

I get the tl;dr a lot

Never seen tmb;dr

Possible answer to tmb;dr = too much bullshit;didn't read?

Tahoe
02-07-2010, 08:54 PM
too much bolded WBMG

Pharaoh
02-07-2010, 08:57 PM
too much bolded WBMG

lol

and what the fuck is WBMG?

Damn you "kids" and your twitter speak

Tahoe
02-07-2010, 09:06 PM
IDSI

Pharaoh
02-07-2010, 09:40 PM
IDSI?

FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Zekyl
02-08-2010, 05:25 PM
WBMG = Would Be My Guess

No idea what IDSI is.

Atticus771
02-08-2010, 05:27 PM
I'm with Pharoah. English, please.

WTFchris
02-08-2010, 05:39 PM
lol

and what the fuck is WBMG?

Damn you "kids" and your twitter speak

I agree. That shit doesn't save time if nobody has a clue what the abbreviation means.

Higherwarrior
02-08-2010, 09:44 PM
IDSI = i don't see it

???????????

anyway i said in the offseason we needed to dump rip and tay for the best package we can get. i hope to god we dump at least one of them, preferably both. even if we don't get the best 'value' at least we can start fresh and possibly stockpile some young assets/picks. i love both guys and what they brought this franchise. but this is a results business and neither player can be a part of what we're trying to build moving ahead.

also, i don't think rip or prince are NEAR as valuable to other teams as we might think. not only do they make too much for most teams desired salary structure, but neither player is much of a difference maker at all in today's game. solid players capable of producing? sure. but there are lots of players like that.

and the fact that neither player- especially rip- can do jack shit off the dribble makes them even less valuable in today's style of play. so all i'm saying is both players would probably be MLE guys if they were hitting the market again. but they're getting almost double that under their current contracts.

the fact tay expires soon could be attractive and no doubt they could help a contender. but i'm not sure how willing teams would be to give up the necessary assets it would take to take on a salary like theirs.

JMO of course.

Pharaoh
02-09-2010, 07:40 AM
IMO there are several deals that Tay and/or Rip could be involved in.

Visit the Fun with trades board