We're behind by 26 points at the half against a Sixers that doesn't feature Iverson, Dr. J, Moses, or Wilt.

When will the beatings stop?

its starting to look like getting Rip and Tay back actually made us worse. They're not going to suddenly gel into a good thing.

Earlier this year it was fun to watch our younger guys fight like scrappy wolves for everything. That looks gone.

Personally I'm ready to roll with Gordon/CV/Jonas and maybe Stuckey or a diff PG. Had enough of the old timers.

time to blow this team up. trade rip and prince for whatever we can get and let the kids play and develop. then hope we can continue to add more young talent through the draft.

it won't be a pretty process or an easy rebuild. but what we're going through now is worse- we're stuck in neutral and are sliding backwards at an alarming rate. rip and prince don't fit here anymore. time to admit defeat and blow the team up and start over.

Should have been done already, but let's get on with it.

something to celebrate in the midst of the mess....?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4812129

i don't really give a shit but it is at least mildly interesting.

I like how George is getting excited and saying "Pistons are only down by 15".

We don't play defense. I refuse to get upset about a team that plays no defense losing 12 in a row. This is whats supposed to happen.

We need to keep on losing for a top 3 draft pick

We need to keep on losing for a top 3 draft pick
I hate that logic.

The odds of getting a player worth tanking a season over are like 10 to 1. Meaning, there's a %90 chance it won't be worth it. We'll just be another bad team.

Where did you come up with those stats?

By watching teams year after year lose a ton of games and wind up with some overhyped player that winds up being slightly better than mediocre.

I hear this stupid discussion every day of every year on Pacers Digest. Everyone has dreams of getting the next great college player. And the lottery happens....and they don't. It's ridiculous.

If we wind up with a top pick simply because we suck...fine. That's fate. But I have a big problem with wanting your own team to lose. It's not an easy road to come back from, and it's never as rewarding as you think it's going to be.

You have a much higher chance at getting an impact player at 3 than 14. I bet most people would agree with me that they would rather get the #3 pick than get blown out of the playoffs as the 8th seed.

the odds of getting a player worthy of tanking a season over without tanking a season are ZERO.

i agree that very often, high draft picks are overhyped and end up as busts- we learned that firsthand. but the only hope we have is to get a shot at one of the top talents- whether they pan out or not is another discussion.

the odds of us getting a franchise type player outside the top few picks is even lower. i'm not suggesting we lose on purpose- i'm suggesting we stop kidding ourselves that we can make a playoff run. or whatever it is we're trying to do now.

admit we can't contend as is, and build for the future- let the young kids play. and yes, as a fan i want a high pick. will it 'save' our franchise and mean we turn things around overnight? no way.

but having a top pick guarantees you have the chance to get the best player available at that moment. whether they pan out is another story. but at least we'd get a chance at a potentially dominant franchise player- right now doing what we're doing we have ZERO chance of getting that.

It's the most moot argument ever. Even if they did tank they could never say openly that's what they did and the argument would just shift from "should they" to "did they" and continue chasing its tail.

You have a much higher chance at getting an impact player at 3 than 14. I bet most people would agree with me that they would rather get the #3 pick than get blown out of the playoffs as the 8th seed.
Tell that to Indiana. They got Danny Granger at #17 and have failed miserably with a hanful of lotto picks.

Tell that to Indiana. They got Danny Granger at #17 and have failed miserably with a hanful of lotto picks.
you can tell it to whoever you want, the correlation between better picks and better players in undeniable.

you can tell it to whoever you want, the correlation between better picks and better players in undeniable.
WORD

you can tell it to whoever you want, the correlation between better picks and better players in undeniable.
Point is bad teams that lose a lot of games tend to stay bad. They dont just suddenly get better after the draft.

The Lions did

Point is bad teams that lose a lot of games tend to stay bad. They dont just suddenly get better after the draft.


But good teams do occasionally visit the lottery only to bounce back.

Point is bad teams that lose a lot of games tend to stay bad. They dont just suddenly get better after the draft.

Point is shit teams that get the 7th - 8th seed don't stand to improve very much in the offseason following an ass-whipping courtesy one of the top two seeds when they don't have any cap-space.

What's the difference between the Nets and every team that's not the Celtics/Lakers/Magic/Cavs?

The Nets have just as high a chance as winning the title and are going to have a much higher shot at a player like John Wall.

But good teams do occasionally visit the lottery only to bounce back.
And if that's the way its going to play out, so be it. But I'm not eager to go down that road.

And if that's the way its going to play out, so be it. But I'm not eager to go down that road.
Got a choice?

my choice is to not not actively root for my team to lose.

where do you think we're going right now? do you honestly think we're going to have enough internal improvement to get back to being a contender? do you really think we'll find a couple of superstars who can not only make us a winning team but be good enough to push us towards contending someday?

we need some elite talent. not a a mid round 'good' player like granger. we need a superstar. if we have longterm vision we should be able to see that the best way for this team, right now, to add some superstar talent is through the draft.

and while there are no guarantees with draft picks, it is much better to be rolling the dice with a high pick than with a mid round pick; the odds for a big payoff are much greater nearer the top.

I really want this team to compete in every single game and lose all of them from now on by less than 5 points

I really don't want to "enjoy" another season of playoff games. It's not about booing Orlando or Boston or Cleveland. It's about positioning this franchise to contend for years to come.

And the quickest possible route to contention (without cap room) is via the Draft, either by picking a stud or by trading the pick and a package for that stud.

Either Joe trades Rip and/or Prince for cap space (a hard sell to the fanbase) or we try to appear competitive while positioning ourselves for a high pick in the Draft.

If you don't want a high Lotto pick at this stage I really don't know what to say.

Tell that to Indiana. They got Danny Granger at #17 and have failed miserably with a hanful of lotto picks.
Tell it to the Spurs.

Tell it to the Spurs.
...and then you can tell it to the Pacers, Clippers, Grizzlies, Thunder, Bulls, Warriors, Bobcats, Kings, TWolves, Knicks, and Bucks...

Yeah, it worked for the Spurs. What short sighted nonsense. Go out and spend your savings on a bunch of scratch off lotto tickets if you're that foolish.

There's a difference in managerial talent though. I'd like to think that you give Joe D. John Wall and he can build a title out of it. (Yes, yes, I know, Darko, blah) The same isn't necessarily true of the Clippers.

I think if you give Joe a high Lotto pick in 2010

+ Richard Hamilton
+ Tayshaun Prince
+ Ben Gordon
+ Super Nova
+ Rodney Stuckey
+ Will Bynum
+ at least one more decent season of Ben Wallace
+ John Q Coach
+ Jonas Jerebko
+ Austin Daye
+ Jason Maxiell
+ our guys stay healthy

Joe has a damn fine team.

And a lot of options in trades.

Now Kstat - if you were to question Joe's ability to use a Lotto pick well (Darko and Rodney White are his claims to fame) then maybe you'd get some support.

But to say you don't want a high Lotto pick in 2010 (experts are claiming there's a lot of quality at the top) is just crazy.

Every team should want a high pick in this coming Draft, just like every team should want cap room this off-season.

IF Joe was willing to do the right thing by the fans and the franchise we could have had both, and could possibly have both.

Hey Joe - do something! Anything! Please!

We've got a 12 game losing streak?

Say it ain't so, Joe. Say it ain't so.

IF Joe was willing to do the right thing by the fans and the franchise we could have had both, and could possibly have both.

This

...and then you can tell it to the Pacers, Clippers, Grizzlies, Thunder, Bulls, Warriors, Bobcats, Kings, TWolves, Knicks, and Bucks...

Yeah, it worked for the Spurs. What short sighted nonsense. Go out and spend your savings on a bunch of scratch off lotto tickets if you're that foolish.

I like this argument, but balance that out against the contenders. Boston and LA have rebuilt on the fly with savvy moves (Kobe), good drafts (Pierce), large metropolitan cities, and owners with deep pockets. We have maybe 1/3 of that. Outside of our one championship and the above mentioned teams, historically it seems most champions had a top draft pick in the fold for a long time. Off the top of my head (and eliminating the Lakers and our one team), I came up with San Antonio (DR and TD), the Bulls (MJ), Houston (Dream).

In the end, you gotta have top players to win. The lotto gives you the best chance to get top players if you don't have a top market or deep pockets.

It remains to be seen what Derrick Rose, cap space and some good coaching will do for the Bulls. And I don't think the Thunder are going to be too upset with Durant. I'd trade rosters with OKC right now in a heartbeat.

The franchise formerly known as the Pistons hosted what used to be the Sixers last night, looking to sneak their longest skid (11 games) in 15 seasons. And here I thought Detroit’s biggest problem was some screwball in exploding underwear.

Ben Wallace on 12-game losing streak: 'Most of this has been on me'

By VINCE ELLIS
FREE PRESS SPORTS WRITER

About an hour after his coach gave him props for being one of few Pistons to give a solid effort in the team’s dismal home loss tonight to the 76ers, Ben Wallace called himself out.

“I got to do a better job of leading this team from start to finish,” Wallace said in the Pistons locker room after the 104-94 loss – the Pistons’ 12th straight loss. “I know what this team is capable of doing.

“I got to get this team ready from the start.”

So why does Wallace blame himself?

“Most of this has been on me,” he added. “I haven’t been playing the way I know I’m capable of playing.

“I call myself the leader of this team and if you’re leader of the team and things not going well, then it falls on you.”

Pistons coach John Kuester would beg to differ after Wallace’s 10-point, three-steal effort.

And I would, too.

It remains to be seen what Derrick Rose, cap space and some good coaching will do for the Bulls. And I don't think the Thunder are going to be too upset with Durant. I'd trade rosters with OKC right now in a heartbeat.
You think it's just Durant?

OKC has needed FOUR top-5 picks to get where they are now. And by :"where they are now," I mean 1 game above .500 and clinging to the #8 seed.

You think this streak has been bad? OKC went through years and years of this shit, hit home runs with every pick, and they still might not make the playoffs.

Just think about how lucky OKC had to be to even get this far. They are only in this position because they were "lucky" enough to lose the #1 pick to Portland, or else they'd be stuck with Oden instead of Durant, and they'd have shit to show for all that losing.

The difference between all the teams you keep mentioning is Dumars. He has built a contender. The other teams you keep mentioning have sucked for eons. We got a potential governor leading our team.

yeah, and he didn't build that contender through the draft.

Exactly so if we can get lucky and get a can't miss player, then we are all set. Teams like Minnesota and Chicago just have poor management. The Bulls have turned into the Detroit Lions.

BILL LAMEBEER is 2011!!!!!

Gather round kids. 6th grade level talk here.

Teams get better by gaining assets. However you do it. You can even mix methods together.

One way to get an asset in the nba is through the draft. A higher pick will give you a better opportunity to get an asset you covet, which will develop into the asset we discussed.

We have already claimed a couple helpful pieces through Free Agency. We have an opportunity to trade at least 1 guard for another. Now we can draft a guy. The better the guy, the better our shot at winning a title.

Eat your green beans.

i've got news for you k-stat: we're going to struggle, probably pretty heavily, for a few years too. get used to it. we will be a mediocre team at the very best, for the next few years.

if we get some top talent high in the draft then that will greatly aid us breaking through. otherwise we could be stuck in mediocrity even longer.

look i hate watching us lose- but i hate the idea of us being mediocre for an extended period which is what we would be if we refused to admit we need to start from scratch. you forget that a huge reason we were able to make ourselves nba champs a few years ago is because we made the best of our cap space when we signed and traded hill- a superstar. we don't have a superstar now to swing that deal.

plus, we lucked out with wallace becoming what he became. and yes billups was a very savvy FA signing and rip a great trade. but if you'll notice, the nba is a different game even just in the few years since we won it all.

it is even more critical to have a superstar now more than ever. that old model from 2004 won't cut it now, even if we were somehow lucky enough to have that all happen again.

we can make some savvy moves perhaps but our best chance is the draft, without question.

Agent Zero might be available as a "future consideration"

yeah, and he didn't build that contender through the draft

Only cause he fucked it up.

You really don't want me to remind you of the guys we passed on before we won the title, do you?

And GD - don't get me started on what could have been. Hindsight is always my greatest (only?) weapon against Joe and in hindsight this past off-season was a fucking abortion.

Not because of who we drafted or who we signed but because of who we still have here.

Clean house! Rebuild through the Draft and Free Agency.

And Kstat - you really wanna talk about OKC? Didn't they used to be the Seattle Sonics? Didn't the Sonics used to make the playoffs all the fucking time?

WOW! Looks like their rebuilding job is taking a little longer than they thought but at least they have some quality young talent (aka assets) to trade if/when they feel the need to make a major move

Rodney Stuckey: Pistons will start playing faster http://bit.ly/7IWaEa

“We’ve got to change the pace a little bit, so I’ve got to push the ball up the court and we’ve got to get out and run a little bit and get some easy baskets. We had a meeting (Saturday), so (coaches) know. That’s when I’m at my best, when I can get out on the court and create. We’ll see what happens tomorrow.”

TRANSLATION

I'm really going to pump up my offensive fouls and turnovers.

Most of Stuckey's turnovers come in halfcourt sets/ He's a much better guard when he is't forced to think too much.

Difference makers in last 5 drafts:

2009 - Griffin?, Harden?, Evans (probably), Jennings (probably), Lawson
2008 - Rose, Beasely, Mayo, Love, Gordon, Lopez, Randolph
2007 - Durant, Horford, Stuckey! (this draft is pretty weak outside Durant actually)
2006 - Aldridge, Roy, Gay, Rondo
2005 - Bogut, Deron, Paul, CV, Bynum, Granger, Lee

Sure, you can find gems late (Rondo, Lee, Lawson), but %90 of the difference makers in the NBA were drafted in the lotto, not in the late teens (were bad playoff teams reside).

the Pistons are what? 28th in scoring, i'd never understood why they didnt run more with this personal, its about time

the Pistons are what? 28th in scoring, i'd never understood why they didnt run more with this personal, its about time

Yeah, Kstat would have you believe that we lose because we simply don't play D. But how can you be last in scoring and blame it simply on our D?

We score low because we play at a slow pace. We give up points like a team that plays at a much faster pace. You do the math.

the slow pace only works when you have an efficient half court offense + your defense has to be above average... neither is the case with this team, so run& run and run, it cant get any worse!

I actually agree with that.

If our defense is going to suck, may as well play at a friendlier pace.

at least if they run there is a chance the other team plays out of control at a higher tempo.

We are going to give up 120 pts a game now.

Down 23 pts in 3rd. Could be worst team in NBA right now.

Hilarious (in a sad way) listening to Kelser riff on :our: lack of defense.


If you look at the shots the bulls are getting, there's no defense on any of them

It's target practice out there

The pistons need a sixth defender

In my head I've been imagining George saying "fucking pathetic" after every one of his basketball-related statements.

This is spread-eagle smelly pussy defense at its finest.

Maybe Joe should take a page from the Wiz and bring a gun to the locker room.

We don't suck offensively because we play at a slower pace.

We suck offensively cause we suck offensively.

You think it's easy to design an NBA offense with 1 guy basically unable to participate and another unable to actually run the offense? Coach is a fucking genius to get this team to average 90 points.

Through injury, without a real PG, with the "offensive superstar" Ben Wallace in the line-up ...

Someone call The Pope - Johnny Q performed a fucking miracle

One month ago today :we: won :our: 5th game in a row. HWS.

Every time I see the title of this thread, I imagine this thread is the scrap book for some guy that was recently dumped and spent at least 3 nights a week suffering the consequences of really bad beer goggles at bars and parties.

In all fairness, I'm probably not too far off.

OVER

If there is a team in the NBA more dysfunctional right now than the Pistons, it's the Wiz. Thank you schedule-maker.

I find it difficult to believe that Wizards team beat anybody.

Feel good about life again

If it ain't rough, it ain't right.