Royally fucked up or just fucked up?

We'ew getting blown out so there is no point playing on it.

They'll know by tomorrow if it's serious.

If you consider the fact that Bynum's playing on two bad ankles as well, this is just crazy.

Did Arnie forget how to tape?

If you consider the fact that Bynum's playing on two bad ankles as well, this is just crazy.

Did Arnie forget how to tape?


Stuckey is sabotaging them somehow. I can just see it...

"I'm the scoring leader!" while dipping Ben g, Will B, and Rip H shoes in astroglide.

Or maybe because this is the "wasted" season the players don't give a fuck and will sit out whenever they can?

Bynum wants to play every single game cause he's in a contract year but if he's hurting (and his past few games indicate he is) then he should sit. He's not doing himself or the team any favours by being out there at less than 100%

BUT if BG and Rip are both out does that mean we Stuckey starts at SG and Bynum starts at PG? That would be interesting

i dunno, seems like Daye will start at SG.

Judging by what I read from Langlois and other various pistons propaganda it seems as if they would do anything they can to not start Bynum at PG. I don't know why, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Chucky start first. Maybe it's Bynum's contract, maybe Stuckey's ego, or maybe it's just coaching/management hardheadedness but they seem VERY intent on relegating him to a bench role.
Realistically I can somewhat understand though. IF bynum were to start and post up a 18/8 on good shooting and low turnovers could you imagine how hard it would be to take him out of that starting gig? However if there was ever a time to set him up for failure, right now while he's on a gimpy ankle would be that time. I could kinda see him starting, trying to play without his explosiveness and sucking, then be relegated to a deep bench role the rest of the season. Most of the fans would eat it pretty easily.

Koolaid owns.

Can I be your crony?

i dunno, seems like Daye will start at SG.

Judging by what I read from Langlois and other various pistons propaganda it seems as if they would do anything they can to not start Bynum at PG. I don't know why, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Chucky start first. Maybe it's Bynum's contract, maybe Stuckey's ego, or maybe it's just coaching/management hardheadedness but they seem VERY intent on relegating him to a bench role.

Maybe, just maybe Bynum (at his best) is needed coming off the bench?

How many times have we been losing, he's checked into the game and started a run?

I think that happens a bit - because he is amped and ready to run. It stuns the other team for a few because he's just off to the races out there.

And that's his job - to come in and make shit happen. And he excels in that role. And if we ever hope to win a game he is needed in that role.

WTF would we do if he started? Who's gonna bring that energy and effort and get the crowd into it? You think Stuckey could do that? Or Daye? Or Summers? Or Chucky?

Shit, you move Bynum into the starting unit and we're cooked.

Maybe, just maybe Bynum (at his best) is needed coming off the bench?

How many times have we been losing, he's checked into the game and started a run?

I think that happens a bit - because he is amped and ready to run. It stuns the other team for a few because he's just off to the races out there.

And that's his job - to come in and make shit happen. And he excels in that role. And if we ever hope to win a game he is needed in that role.

WTF would we do if he started? Who's gonna bring that energy and effort and get the crowd into it? You think Stuckey could do that? Or Daye? Or Summers? Or Chucky?

Shit, you move Bynum into the starting unit and we're cooked.

Great post!!!

dude you're right.

we should put CV, BG, Rip and Tay on the bench too. That'd be fucking awesome.

You could turn on the TV everyday and be like 'wow, these guys are great off the bench'. Now if only we had a starting unit that did something.

If Bynum went to the starting unit, one of Stuckey or BG would go to the bench. That should answer your little question of who takes his place right there. Unless you're talking about right now, but thats just silly because the team is so riddled with injuries that there is no bench.

Maybe, just maybe Bynum (at his best) is needed coming off the bench?

How many times have we been losing, he's checked into the game and started a run?

I think that happens a bit - because he is amped and ready to run. It stuns the other team for a few because he's just off to the races out there.

And that's his job - to come in and make shit happen. And he excels in that role. And if we ever hope to win a game he is needed in that role.

WTF would we do if he started? Who's gonna bring that energy and effort and get the crowd into it? You think Stuckey could do that? Or Daye? Or Summers? Or Chucky?
What about Ben Gordon, former SMOY?

And to (partially) answer my own question...

The issue with BG off the bench is that any combination of Bynum, Rip, and Stuckey at 1 and 2 hoses whatever 3P game we have. None of those guys are volume 3P aces, and we don't have so much as an average 3P shooter at any other position excepting for Tay (and maybe the unproven Daye, who's starting tonight in BG's place -- maybe he'll be a TMac). The way I see it, what really keeps Bynum out of our starting lineup is his 3P shot. The first player of Bynum or Stuckey that can attempt 4+ 3P shots/game at 37+% ought to start, given our current roster.

I'm not not comfortable with anybody but BG or CV taking 4 or more threes a game. I like that stuck and bynum shoot them very seldomly.

My thing is that Bynum should start (when he's healthy) because this team is loaded with shooters. Rip, Gordon, Villanueva, Daye, Prince, Summers and even Jerebko are all capable of knocking down a shot, but who's going to pass to them? Who's going to feed easy looks to our incompetent offensively challenged big guys to make sure it isn't 3 on 5 or 4 on 5? Stuck just ain't that dude.

I see Stuck as being one the best guys you could possibly have on the bench too. He could fill in at 1, 2 and 3 and bring a heavy offense firepower with him when he checks in to go along with a solid defensive effort that would likely cancel out any mismatch that might happen to BG, Bynum or even Rip.

I'm not not comfortable with anybody but BG or CV taking 4 or more threes a game. I like that stuck and bynum shoot them very seldomly.

My thing is that Bynum should start (when he's healthy) because this team is loaded with shooters. Rip, Gordon, Villanueva, Daye, Prince, Summers and even Jerebko are all capable of knocking down a shot, but who's going to pass to them? Who's going to feed easy looks to our incompetent offensively challenged big guys to make sure it isn't 3 on 5 or 4 on 5? Stuck just ain't that dude.

I see Stuck as being one the best guys you could possibly have on the bench too. He could fill in at 1, 2 and 3 and bring a heavy offense firepower with him when he checks in to go along with a solid defensive effort that would likely cancel out any mismatch that might happen to BG, Bynum or even Rip.

I'm not not comfortable with anybody but BG or CV taking 4 or more threes a game. I like that stuck and bynum shoot them very seldomly.

My thing is that Bynum should start (when he's healthy) because this team is loaded with shooters. Rip, Gordon, Villanueva, Daye, Prince, Summers and even Jerebko are all capable of knocking down a shot,
And my point is -- BG provides a 3P threat in the starting lineup that no one else does. A starting lineup without a legit 3P threat won't get us far. The last thing I want is for CV to start going the way of Sheed for lack of a 3P threat on the floor. Our rooks haven't really displayed NBA 3P range yet. We need to have at least one starter shooting the NBA average or better from 3P range.

I see a lot of sheed in Charlie V, offensively.

Yeah, but neither Sheed nor CV should be doing volume 3P shooting. I'm thinking specifically about Sheed last year, where 44% of Sheed's attempts were 3P. He had the license to do so because, with Chauncey gone, no one else was taking them with great volume (though Rip tried).

Agree 100%

Charlie makes me cringe sometimes just like Sheed did.

I think you guys are kind of over exaggerating the need for a 3 point specialist in the starting lineup.

There is some advantages to having a big guy shooting from outside as well. Now your big is in better position to get back on defense and having the opposing big guy forced to play the perimeter instead of boxing out for a rebound down low. Honestly, if playing more around the 3 point line is going to help CV get back on D like it did for Sheed then I say he needs to start playing that way.

So Koolaid - are you saying you like to see your PF shooting long jumpers because it helps him be in position to get back on D?

So Koolaid - are you saying you like to see your PF shooting long jumpers because it helps him be in position to get back on D?

i'm saying that it's one advantage. it opens up the lane for drives and takes the opposing big out of the paint and it places your big guy closer to the basket he is supposed to defend.

Would you prefer to see:

A) Charlie V shooting long-jumpers and Bynum in the starting line-up

B) Stuckey in the starting line-up and Nova step in a bit closer?

Would you prefer to see:

A) Charlie V shooting long-jumpers and Bynum in the starting line-up

B) Stuckey in the starting line-up and Nova step in a bit closer?

That's a hard one. I like CV shooting closer because it doesn't look like speed is an issue for him. I'd probably still go with the first though, because Bynum's drive and dish style would be a very nice compliment to him and when he does play with Stuckey at the point, he doesn't shoot much at all so it doesn't matter where he shoots from.

LMAO - I seriously wonder if you have ever played the game at ANY level on a real team, not some rec league bullshit for something to do.

On a real team dudes have roles. You might not like that but it's a fact. And deep down (at places you don't talk about at parties) you need guys like Bynum, you want guys like Bynum COMING OFF THE BENCH.

Dude makes a massive impact most of the time and you wanna sacrifice all the good he does IN THAT ROLE to move him into a DIFFERENT ROLE?

WTF?

For the life of me I will never understand how people see a guy like Bynum coming off the bench and AUTOMATICALLY assume the dude will do the exact SAME JOB if you start him.

Starting is completely different, your role completely different and yet somehow people who are supposed to be intelligent NEVER acknowledge this fact.

But you guys can hum the same fucking tune all day, every day. I'm just thankful that the people who matter (like Coach Johnny Q) understand the impact Bynum has in his current role and refuse to bow down.

Start Chucky, start Stuckey, start Gordon at PG. But if you like Bynum and think he does a great fucking job don't change his role. Don't fuck with him. Let him be the success story that he is.

Cause if you change his role and start the dude you will fuck him up and hurt the team. If that's what you wanna do then quite frankly you can get fucked and I pray you become a fan of a different team.

Starting is completely different, your role completely different and yet somehow people who are supposed to be intelligent NEVER acknowledge this fact.
There's also the little matter of who finishes games.

I think there's a difference between a 30+ mpg player, a 15-20 mpg rotation player, and a "10 mpg half-the-time" dude. There's some particular aspects that skew who ought to start (who's the best at the opening tap) or close (sucky FT% or anti-clutch instincts), but I think of the role as being defined more by minutes played than where you fit in the rotation.

There's also the little matter of who finishes games.

Couldn't agree more. This is more important than who starts or what minutes someone gets.



but I think of the role as being defined more by minutes played than where you fit in the rotation.

Let me check if I understand what you mean:

Do you mean that you are happy for player A (let's say Bynum) to continue to come off the bench IF he still gets the minutes he "deserves"?

LMAO - I seriously wonder if you have ever played the game at ANY level on a real team, not some rec league bullshit for something to do.

On a real team dudes have roles. You might not like that but it's a fact. And deep down (at places you don't talk about at parties) you need guys like Bynum, you want guys like Bynum COMING OFF THE BENCH.

Dude makes a massive impact most of the time and you wanna sacrifice all the good he does IN THAT ROLE to move him into a DIFFERENT ROLE?

WTF?

For the life of me I will never understand how people see a guy like Bynum coming off the bench and AUTOMATICALLY assume the dude will do the exact SAME JOB if you start him.

Starting is completely different, your role completely different and yet somehow people who are supposed to be intelligent NEVER acknowledge this fact.

But you guys can hum the same fucking tune all day, every day. I'm just thankful that the people who matter (like Coach Johnny Q) understand the impact Bynum has in his current role and refuse to bow down.

Start Chucky, start Stuckey, start Gordon at PG. But if you like Bynum and think he does a great fucking job don't change his role. Don't fuck with him. Let him be the success story that he is.

Cause if you change his role and start the dude you will fuck him up and hurt the team. If that's what you wanna do then quite frankly you can get fucked and I pray you become a fan of a different team.


yeah you're right.
Chauncey was great off the bench in Minnesota and we fucked up changing his role. Ben Gordon was great off the bench for Chicago, and you see how bad it fucked his game up by starting every time he plays now. Ben Wallace in Orlando was great off the bench, and we fucked that all up too. Tayshaun once really shined coming off the bench as well. Actually, while it's being discussed, Stuckey looked good coming off the bench too. The Pistons are always fucking it up.

I mean Bynum currently comes off the bench to drive and dish. He'd definitely stop doing that if he started. He'd probably be like "What the fuck? I'm starting!" and then he'd chuck up 20 threes a game. You clearly have it all figured out.

I'm not in any "Bynum must start" or "Bynum must come off the bench" camp. If I'm in any camp, it's the "Bynum should close" camp.

I'm coming down with Koolaid on this, and I think that last post did a solid job of making his point. How does a player ever elevate himself to the starting lineup without being 'anointed'?

yeah you're right.
Chauncey was great off the bench in Minnesota and we fucked up changing his role.

Was he? Or was he pretty hit and miss until he landed the starting job when Terrell Brandon went down with injury?

Dude seized his opportunity and landed a good contract - on a different team that traded another ball-needing guard (Stackhouse) in order to allow Billups to play his natural game.


Ben Gordon was great off the bench for Chicago, and you see how bad it fucked his game up by starting every time he plays now.

BG was also a really good starter for the Bulls


Ben Wallace in Orlando was great off the bench, and we fucked that all up too.

Actually he was not exceptional off their bench. He was good but very few people thought he was gonna become what he became.


Tayshaun once really shined coming off the bench as well.

WHAT? For how many games? Go look that shit up, young buck. He did not really shine. He fucking announced his arrival v Orlando, He was better than good in that series. But check his regular season. Dude did shit. But when he arrived he "blossomed" straight away.


Actually, while it's being discussed, Stuckey looked good coming off the bench too. The Pistons are always fucking it up.

Damn right we fucked this up. Should have kept Chauncey and Rip as the starters with Stuckey off the bench.

Now, before we move on let me point out that pretty much every dude Koolaid named has been (or is pretty damn close to) an All-Star.

And you're comparing Will Bynum with them!



I mean Bynum currently comes off the bench to drive and dish. He'd definitely stop doing that if he started. He'd probably be like "What the fuck? I'm starting!" and then he'd chuck up 20 threes a game.

No green text? Lucky I can tell you're being sarcastic. But IF you put him in the starting line-up you do lose the spark off the bench he provides AND you do change the way he plays.

Ain't no more Bynum iso shit - his job would be to run the offense, which is not all-Bynum, all the fucking time. And it ain't drive and dish all the time either. Dudes that are coming off screens and picks need to be delivered the ball at the right time.

Plays need to be run, dudes need to be in the right position for spacing and all the other shit that a PG needs to think about/keep track of (how the opponent reacts to certain plays, who's hot, when do I push the pace, when do I slow it down, when do I take my guy to the rack etc)

You have no fucking idea the amount of shit a real PG (not Bynum, not Stuckey) need to think about. And that's why you're corect when you say...


You clearly have it all figured out.

Sig that shit

I'm coming down with Koolaid on this, and I think that last post did a solid job of making his point. How does a player ever elevate himself to the starting lineup without being 'anointed'?

How does a dude get promoted to the starting line-up?

When other dudes get injured and he gets his chance to shine. Or when he makes his case so air tight that the Coach says "Fuck the bench - this kid is the shit" and starts him.

But what did Coach Q do? He started Chucky fucking Atkins. With Rip out, Tay out, BG out and only really 3 guards to choose from Johnny Q chose the rookie Austin Daye first and when that FAILED he chose Chucky!

That's pretty fucking telling IMO. And it's a message Bynum would have got (and I hope it makes him a better player).

It's just a shame very few of you got the message.

Y'all act like Bynum has descended from Heaven to save the once mighty Piston franchise from this pathetic existence known as mediocrity.

Newsflash: He ain't that fucking good.

He's good, but you guys are so far gone he gets compared to All-Star calibre players and y'all wanna annoit him as the sacred cow or some shit.

He is a mis-match waiting to happen. IF teams planned to abuse him he could be seriously exposed and y'all would start crying. Right now he's a fucking after thought, a footnote on a scouting report that deals with BG, Rip, Tay, Nova, Stuckey and Big Ben.

And you've gone off in the opposite direction. Bynum is no worse of a defensive matchup (or mismatch, as you say) than Atkins, he's actually light years better. The fact that Q refuses to start Bynum doesn't prove anything about his worth or ability as a player, it simply means there are other factors besides ability/production being considered. I think we've already speculated about what those things might be.

Fire Q. He's obviously no better than Curry.

Yeah, we have speculated it's because the franchise is hell bent on Stuckey being a PG.

But here's something else to consider, and y'all might not like it:

Maybe Bynum, in his current role just might be the SHIT! The Man! THE real sacred cow!

In his current role the guy is fucking amazing most nights and without him in that role we'd be pretty well fucked.

So, him not starting is not a slight. Like Mxy said - who cares who starts? Who closes or minutes played is far more important.

Was he? Or was he pretty hit and miss until he landed the starting job when Terrell Brandon went down with injury?

Dude seized his opportunity and landed a good contract - on a different team that traded another ball-needing guard (Stackhouse) in order to allow Billups to play his natural game.
Chauncey was a Piston for a couple months before Stackhouse was traded for Rip.

Did they ever play together, Mxy?

No, I don't think they played together, even in practice. My point is that Dumars didn't trade Stackhouse so Chauncey could play his natural game, which is how I read what you wrote. Joe specifically told the press that Stackhouse wasn't going to be traded after Chauncey was signed, in fact.

If anything, Chauncey was probably intended to be a complementary piece to Stackhouse (or Rip after the trade)... someone with enough guns so our SG wouldn't have to do all the heavy lifting while being triple-teamed due to our offensive woes. Chauncey exceeded expectations... lucky us.

BTW, Manu still comes off the bench. I think Bynum is in the perfect role for him. I think he should be playing more than 20 MPG (assuming everyone is healthy), so clearly you need to move Stuckey or RIP for a big to get the minutes right.

No Chris, clearly Popabitch is an idiot of a coach and prefers buffoonery over winning.

In my ideal world, we move Stuckey and Kwame for a legit young big. I don't think Stuckey and Bynum can play next to each other for long stretches (with neither having a decent 3 point shot). Or, we trade RIP if Stuckey can develop the range. Whoever has more value to get us a better center back. Then you sort out the guard rotation afterwards.

Rip can hit from the arc but he's not exactly a threat. If range is really the only problem, I don't see Rip solving that problem.

RIP is a competant 3 point shooter. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but he made a huge jump there a couple years ago. He's not a guy you want parked there all night jacking threes, but he makes enough to keep from guys collapsing off him. That is the key. If you had Bynum and Stuckey playing 30+ MPG next to each other you'd have a lot of help defense off either of them standing at the 3 point line. You basically have no spacing from the defense required.

Yeah, can't sag on Rip based more on the fact than an uncontested 20 footer is a layup for the dude.

The last thing I want is Bynum, Stuckey and Wallace out there on offense. You can just pack everyone in the paint basically.

http://www.82games.com/0910/0910DET2.HTM

Is every injury thread absolutely not abut the injuries?

He's still hurt.

Better?

Gordon & Bynum practiced today and might play tomorrow.